 Call to order this is the ninth regular meeting of the 2010-2011 Common Council and as is customary our city clerk Sue Richards will read the quote of the evening. Thank you, mayor Nothing can stop a person with the right mental attitude from achieving their goal Nothing on earth can help a person with the wrong mental attitude Thank You sue roll call, please boron Here oh Excused powers here Decker here Hammond here Hanna here Heidemann here kath here Kittlesen here Montemay or here Radke here Rindfleisch here Vanderweel there Bursi here and long man here fourteen present We have a quorum looking for approval of the minutes of the prior Common Council meeting. Oh First let's do the pledge of allegiance and if Alderman Rindfleisch can lead us in the pledge, please United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Thank You Eric now we can get the meeting underway with the roll call, please Approval of the minutes, please make a motion to approve the minutes of the previous meeting dated July 19th 2010 we have a motion in a second under discussion If there is none all in favor say aye opposed motion carries resignations attorney McLean there's an email from Jim Gisha Advising that he's resigning from the Motion to accept and file the resignation. We have a motion in a second under discussion if there is none All in favor say aye opposed motion carries Pretty McLean and there's a letter from Randy Schwerer to Alan Rudnick advising that he's no longer able to serve on the bid board and Randy Schwerer will not be able to serve because he is now the executive director of the bid We have a motion to accept and file motion to accept in second motion in a second under discussion There is none all in favor say aye opposed Motion carries Another letter that was addressed to Alan Rudnick advising that Don Seifert was Resigning from the bidboard as she no longer has a business in the district I'd make a motion to accept and file second have a motion to accept and file and a second under discussion If there is none all in favor say aye opposed motion carries It's all for our resignations this evening moving on to Mayor's appointments attorney McLean The first one is dated today here by submit the following appointments for your consideration Alderman Don Hammond to be appointed To the following committee is to fill the unexpired term of James Gisha Patience of fiscal plan committee capital improvements Commission city county shared services committee shaboy and transit Commission special committee on risk management Alderman Eric Rindfleisch to be appointed to the finance committee to fill the unexpired term of James Gisha Alderman Don Hammond will replace James Gisha as chairman of finance All the person James born to be appointed to the industrial development Commission to fill the unexpired term of Jim Gisha whose term expires on that for 16 2012 and the other Committees it's for 18 2011 signed by the mayor Thank You attorney McLean and if I may explain for the council and the general public the five committees Strategic fiscal planning capital improvements shared services transit and the committee on risk management those committees automatically are filled by the chairman of the finance committee so with Alderman Hammond if he is approved if he is approved to Replace Jim Gisha as the chairman of finance those those committees automatically come along with them Alderman born thank you mayor Do we need suspension on the appointment for Alderman Hammond to the redevelopment authority? And if we do I'd make a motion to suspend the redevelopment authority is on a separate sheet redevelopment authority Yes, I'll be coming right now. We are all right And do we need a mayor on motion to suspend the rules? I'd make that motion to suspend the rules We do not need a motion to suspend on these documents here We make a motion to accept no we would actually Until next meeting sorry Don Robert Ryan to be appointed to the tax incremental district kid number six joint review board That lies over till next week next council meeting Do I submit the following appointment for your consideration mark miller to be considered for appointments the redevelopment authority to fill The unexpired term of Richard hires whose term expires on 428 2014 signed by the mayor. I'd make a motion to suspend the rules on that We have a motion to suspend the rules. Do we have a second? We have a motion in a second If I may explain the reason that we need to suspend the rules on this is the With the redevelopment authority We have a couple of very important meetings coming up and we need to make sure that we have a quorum for those meetings Is there anybody opposed to suspending the rules? There's nobody opposed the rules are suspended I'd make a motion then to accept the appointment We have a motion in a second to accept under discussion If there is none all in favor say aye We need to do a roll call roll call on this Boran aye Bowers aye decker. Hi Hammond. Hi Hannah. Hi DeMond. Hi cut. Hi Kittleson. Hi Montemay or I Radke. Hi Rindflash. Hi Vanderwheel. Hi versi. Hi and Longman. Hi 14 eyes motion carries Alder and Don Hammond to be appointed to the redevelopment authority to fill the unexpired term of James Gissu whose term expired for 18 2011 signed by the mayor motion to Suspend the rules We have a motion in a second to suspend the rules again This is redevelopment authority with a couple of very important meetings coming up. Is anybody opposed to suspending the rules? There's no opposition the rules are suspended I'd make a motion then to approve the appointment Second motion to a motion in a second to approve the appointment under discussion There is no discussion roll call, please Bowers. Hi decker. Hi Hammond. Hi Hannah. Hi DeMond. Hi cut. Hi Kittleson. Hi Montemay or I Radke. Hi Rindflash. Hi Vanderwheel. Hi versi. Hi Longman. Hi and Boran. Hi 14 eyes Motion carries an alderman Hammond. We have a meeting this Thursday James pregates to be considered for appointment to the board of police and fire commissioners to fill the unexpired term of Angelica Kavich whose term expires for 28 2014 and David Soxie to be considered for appointment to the redevelopment authority to fill the unexpired term of Glenn Pilling whose term expires on for 28 2014 I'd make a motion to confirm both appointments second. We have a motion and a second to confirm under discussion There is no discussion roll call, please Decker. Hi Hammond. Hi Hannah. Hi Heidemann. Hi cut. Hi Kittleson. Hi Montemay or I Radke. Hi Rindflash. Hi Vanderwheel. Hi versi. Hi Longman. Hi Boran. Hi and Bowers. Hi 14 eyes motion carries finished with appointments we now have the election of the vice president of the common council I Would move president Kittleson. Thank you mayor. Thank you. I would move that nominations Actually here I will stand up I move that nominations be received from the floor voting to be done by closed ballot and if more than two candidates are Nominated the candidate with the lowest number of votes be dropped from the list and balloting to continue until one candidate receives a majority of The votes is there a second second we have a motion and a second I'm sorry. Who seconded that? Here in Rindflash, thank you all in favor say aye. I posed The floor will now be open for nominations. Are there any nominations from the floor? Alderman Boran Thank You mayor Ryan It's an honor for me to nominate Alderman Rindflash for vice president Do we have a second second? We have a motion in a second for Alderman Rindflash Do we have any other nominations from the floor Alderman Heidemann We have a nomination for Alderman Hanna for vice president do we have a second Alderman Hanna I would not like to serve as vice president Alderman Hanna does not want to serve as vice president Anybody want a second of many way Okay, we do not have a second So we only have one person Nominated and I move president Kittleson. Thank you mayor I move that the nominations be closed and that the city clerk be directed to cast a unanimous ballot for Alderman Eric Rindflash For vice president of the council Is there a second? I guess we have a motion in a second For vice president Eric Rindflash All in favor say aye. Aye opposed Congratulations vice president I don't know if you're supposed to pack your stuff and move desk now or not, but Okay Moving on public forum So yes first this evening would be Delcey Johnson See I need your home address, please 13 1306 North 3rd Street, Sheboygan Have five minutes. Thank you Mayor Ryan city clerk Richards city attorney McLean members of the council and citizens On July 21st the committee of the whole discussed Alderman Versey's status regarding voting on ambulance related documents At the July 19th council meeting Alderman Radke moved to file the document But the majority of the council voted for referral to the committee of the whole So now the door has been opened The day after the committee of the whole meeting I had a conversation with an acquaintance who does not get involved in city politics or issues who said to me What about Alderman Kittleson? She votes on fire department and ambulance issues and her husband is a retired Sheboygan firefighter Many people have her a long time questioned Alderman Kittleson's voting And fire department and ambulance issues including her vote in support of the fire department taking over the ambulance service from Orange Cross Is it a matter of ethics or just bias? To me by her bias is obvious For example, I never heard her comment in any way on the Greater Sheboygan Committee's white paper on the fire department and ambulance But at the June 30th public protection and safety committee meeting. She said that Chief Herman's responses were excellent Actually, many think the white paper is excellent and deserves further consideration by the council So is it a matter of ethics or is it just bias? In the interest of full transparency and to remove any shadow or doubt I am asking that the committee of the whole discuss this to do otherwise would be hypocritical as Former Alderman Gisha would say it's a no-brainer a Document calling for a referendum on the ambulance issue has been referred to the finance committee the public protection and safety committee and the committee of the whole I Attended the finance committee and public protection and safety committee meetings Both committees voted to hold the document because they want to know the financial information Related to a budget without the ambulance and Chief Herman wants to present his scenarios for the fire department without the ambulance the question before the committees is to just say yes or no to allow the question on the ballot in November and Then the council will have two and a half months to inform the citizens about the ramifications of a yes or no vote on the question At the public protection and safety committee meeting Alderman Montemayors stated that if she did not like the financial information She would not vote to allow the referendum in other words. She would deny her constituents. They're right to vote on the issue As Alderman Heidemann has said looking back perhaps the council had should have put it to a referendum in 2007 The committee of the whole will be discussing and possibly acting on this issue at their meeting at seven o'clock on Wednesday, August 4th. I Urge all citizens to call your alderman and ask them to support putting the ambulance question on the ballot in November So that your voice can be heard During the discussion of emails at the committee of the whole meeting Alderman lean talked about walking quorums Which again brought to mind how the fire department came to assume the ambulance service from Orange Cross I And others believe that it was accomplished through a walking quorum a Walking quorum is defined as a series of gatherings among separate groups of members of a governmental body Each less than quorum size who agree tacitly or explicitly to act uniformly in sufficient number to reach a quorum The danger is that a predetermined outcome will result in a publicly held meeting being a mere formality without any real discussion Or consideration of the issue being conducted in public the use of a walking quorum is subject to prosecution under the open meeting law in May 2007 I was told that the Saturday before it was planned that the council would vote on the ambulance issue and Before the citizens had even heard about it Then mayor Perez and one or two alderman visited the homes of other alderman to convince them to support the idea Thus in effect the votes were cast before the document even reached the council floor And before the citizens had any knowledge of the proposal A three-man hole deferred the vote at that council meeting, but the public never really had the opportunity to weigh in on the issue It is important for the public to finally have that opportunity and I trust that the council will allow that to happen By supporting the document asking for a referendum on the November ballot again I urge all citizens to call your alderman and ask them to support your right to be heard Thank you. Thank you, Dulcy Thank You, Dulcy Respond to public forum, but I I feel in defense of President Kittleson. I must in this case Jean Kittleson is an alderman and now as president of the council has always abstained on On issues regarding fire department insurance For retirees her husband is under the Wisconsin retirement fund that this council has no No jurisdiction over the only benefit that Alderperson Kittleson gets From the city is the retirement insurance of which she has abstained on votes on insurance every time in my four years Involved in in in this city on this on this council and as the mayor of the city So to try to drag her through the mud on this issue is not right Alderperson Kittleson is a fine individual a fine citizen of the city She has no financial gain by voting to have an ambulance service in the fire department Her husband is retired under the Wisconsin retirement fund. So I just want my views to be clear next All right next on the list is Joanne Decker You may want to pull the microphone down a little bit. Sorry Can I have your address, please Joanne and 884 connect Brath Road Cedar Grove, Wisconsin All right, and you will have five minutes. Okay. I'd like to Speak about the resolution again. I'm Joanne Decker. I'm president of local 1564 I'm here to discuss the resolution of outsourcing the cleaners I just want to let you guys know that we have three dedicated hard-working excellent cleaners here in the city one full-timer and two part-timers I I'm just wondering if you guys have really looked at all the avenues here You looked at maybe using those three cleaners cleaning the police department. I Really truly believe that they could do both they've done that in the past when the police department was here and they've done it Excellent job. Everybody's been commenting here. How well City Hall looks They do more than just clean. They help us seeing that we're shorthanded in IT every time we have something that we need to have moved They're right there to help us. I've seen them assisting People down in the lobby. I mean they're they're very good and they do absolutely more than just cleaning Has anybody spoke to the individuals mostly in criminal investigation division how that is working out I know periodically when I'm over there working on their PCs They you know, we'll have some comments and I I know I contacted a few older persons just to contact them before making your decision and Before you make your decision tonight. I just want everybody to be aware that we did ratified our contract in good faith This past December and in our contract. It says all part-timers need to be laid off before full-timers So that means that we have I believe seven Part-timers in our union yet that need to be laid off before that one full-timer is going to be laid off So if this resolution does go forward it will result in a grievance from the union And I guess I would hate to see that happen The cost of the city plus just to lose three dedicated wonderful employees of the city. Thank you. Thank you Thank you join More on public forum that would be it for this evening Okay, that is all for public forum Now my favorite time of the day the mayor's announcements as we all know also known as the time of pontification Couple a couple positive issues here In the quest to get an emergency call box at the King Park The local firefighters 483 International Association of firefighters has stepped up and donated $500 to the cause and Also, Chief Herman has taken $500 out of his own pocket for the cause So we are up to $2,000 on our on our call box on the on the south side Alderman Hannah previously donated 1,000 Which we greatly appreciate so we did have another death another drowning death out by up by the Power plant in that in that area These call boxes are definitely important Feel for the family of the young man that was lost Just tells us how important this is and we appreciate people stepping up We're still looking for about another $1,500 so we can do this free of taxpayers taxpayer money So thank you again to chief Herman to the shabuigan firefighters and to Alderman Hannah Wednesday night, we did have a fire out in the town of Wilson Which we responded to with An aerial ladder in a crew all night on on Wednesday night For mutual aid from the city Thursday and Friday we had two crews out there for Thursday and Friday Assisting out in the town of Wilson on Thursday and Friday, I understand There was nobody else available to fight that fire because of the Black River fire department the other volunteer fire departments that came in Thursday or Wednesday night I understand that our fire department was basically there by Manning the fire on on Thursday and Friday. We also have moved our city command post out there to assist on Thursday It's still out there at the scene of the fire. This was an arson fire From what I understand it was set in three different spots It just I would like to thank our fire department for for being there And especially for being there a couple days when other fire departments were not available To be there. So I think chief Herman and the and the crews for doing their job Moving on I'd like to make a response here to an editorial that came out in the Sheboygan Press This was on July 30th this editorials Titled City Hall losing too many good people It's the editorial of the Sheboygan Press It says talking about the this came after the resignation of President Gisha from the council Well, guess you didn't list specifics among the issues the city has faced in the last few years Include Mayor Bob Ryan's issue with alcohol and the allegations against the mayor from Angela Payne He's absolutely right meaning Alderman Gisha When he said these things sidetrack us from important work, but do nothing to move the city forward Moving down. It is likely that some of the issues prompting Gisha to leave were also factors in the departures of others All of which weaken the ability of city government to function smoothly The city cannot afford to be losing good people Department heads supervisors and alderman over matters unrelated to the running of the city Now I do not expect the Sheboygan Press to be professional enough to be unbiased in their reporting However, I do ask them to tell the truth The Sheboygan Press has had interviews with I know two of the three Department heads that have left our city And if I'm not mistaken those department heads gave the Sheboygan Press a different story Other than them leaving over matters unrelated to the running of the city All I ask is that the Sheboygan Press starts telling the truth. I know those interviews are out there Yet they seem to have disappeared the Sheboygan Press also knows Why President Gisha resigned? Yep, they have decided not to put that story out there either As I said, I don't expect unbiased reporting, but I do expect the truth Now I'm calling on the Sheboygan Press in the future to at least print the truth. That's all I ask Being constantly negative does nothing to move our city forward does absolutely nothing You know life is not a big conspiracy Everybody in this room tries to do their best to do what is best for the city and to have the truth out there and yet not be reported Or basically untruths to be reported Is not professional journalism in my opinion. You know, I was watching a Watching an episode of SpongeBob SquarePants with my children this past weekend. Actually, they were watching it I was you know, just just there Not I don't know if anybody's familiar with SpongeBob, you know my wife doesn't like my kid painfully so yeah My wife doesn't like my kids to watch it because she thinks it's a bad influence on them But you know when I'm alone with them, I let them watch it anyway Well, mr. Krabs decided he wasn't making enough money in the In the restaurant business, so he decided to go into their into the newspaper business So mr. Krabs hired SpongeBob as his press reporter and put him out there and told SpongeBob to Find anything that he can out about anybody and print it in the news because he's gonna make a ton of money off selling newspapers So SpongeBob went out there by the way the the the name of his paper was the bottom feeder It was the name of his paper So SpongeBob went out there and reported everything he could find out about every individual in their private lives Whether it was true or not and mr. Krabs made a ton of money Of course at the end of the story mr. Krabs lost all his money when the general public came in and raided his place and took all His money because every one of them was mad at him for reporting on truths. So that's a little story But you know just goes to show you that responsible Responsible reporting always wins in the long run. So that is all I have for my mayor's announcements for today I'm just calling the Shabuig impressed to print the truth Moving on Consent agenda president Kittleson. Thank you mayor I would move that all our rows be accepted and placed on file and all resolutions and ordinances be passed and all our C's be accepted and adopted We have a motion and a second Consent agenda 9-1 through 916 under discussion If there is none roll call, please Decker Hi Hammond, hi Hannah. Hi. Hi to men. Hi. Hi. Hi Kittleson. Hi Montemay or hi ratty. Hi Rindflash. Hi van der wheel. Hi versi. Hi wongamon. Hi Warren. Hi and Bowers. Hi 14 eyes motion carries communications and petitions 917 and 918 to be referred reports of officers to 919 through 930 to be referred 931 will be pulled it is no longer pertinent 931 is no longer a pertinent document Resolutions introduced three 9-32 oh We have some discussion all the person Montemay or thank you mr. Mayor sorry about that agenda item number 921 and 925 I would make a motion to file 921 by the city clerk submitting a communication from Dulcy Johnson questioning Alderperson Kittleson's votes on fire department issues and 925 925 by the city clerk submitting a communication from Marge Madder and requesting that the mayor and the council ask Alderperson Kittleson to abstain from discussing and voting on any future decisions concerning the fire department ambulance service Whether it be finances building etc. Thank you, mr. Mayor Considering that John Kittleson retired in 2005 I don't think there's any possible way that There would be a monetary value to Gene Kittleson voting on the ambulance when it hadn't wasn't even in effect in 2005 So I have a motion to file. Do we have a second? Alderman Decker seconded Under discussion on filing of those two documents on filing the documents roll call, please Oh, we can do all eyes all in favor say aye Shall I I will abstain Alderman Kittleson abstains All in so we have eyes opposed Okay, we will take a roll call vote And I vote will file all these two documents Hammond hi Hannah no Heidemann no, cut no Kittleson abstain Montemayor hi Ratke hi Rindflash hi Vanderwheel hi Bersie no Wongamon no Boran no Bowers no Decker hi Six eyes seven nose one abstention Motion to file fails Referred to committee of the whole will be referred to committee of the whole Now we have the Did we do an all-eye vote on the rest of them on the It's just Okay, they are referred 919 through 930 then will be referred We are now on 931 now is being pulled as we said 932 By Alderman Gisha approving the terms and conditions of the contract for lease of land and accompanying ground lease between the redevelopment authority and R&M molar LLC President Kittleson, thank you mayor. I would ask for suspension of the rules on this Please We have a motion to suspend the rules. Do we have a second second? We have a motion and a second Under discussion is there anybody opposed to suspending the rules Or any question? Vice president Rindflash explanation, please Jean. Oh, I believe we were just doing a correction On the semi-referred to the city Was this know this can I ask you to this is a proposal for an ice cream shop on the Riverfront the molars Have developed several projects already. They've got a building got Lino's restaurant. They've got the golf miniature golf course this would be proposed ice cream shop in the same general area along the riverfront and This is the rationale for suspension is a timing issue to get the process going They want to get the place built before the snow flies obviously Alderman Rindflash. Thanks for still my thunder as well Okay, is there anybody opposed to suspending the rules? Nobody has opposed the rules are suspended president Kittleson. I would ask that the resolution then be put upon its passage We have a motion to put the resolution upon its passage President or Alderman Boren. We'll get this straight eventually Thank You, Mayor Ryan Attorney McLean, do you know what's going to be in the rest of the building? I know but I think maybe the public should know I talked to Chad Pellecheck today. There's going to be the ice cream shop on the On the main floor and then what's going to be in there on the second floor? I believe the Police calls for office on the second floor. I don't know that it's specified I think they might have the molars might have their office up there I can look at the ground lease here. I believe it calls for retail on the first floor and Office on the second floor I believe also that the there's going to be room on this building to add some storage to the west Or north whichever way that would be depending on the curve of the river for storage of the Outdoor seating from Lino's restaurant in the winter time Found the provisions Retail on the first floor and residential and our office purposes on the second floor for no other use except with landlord's prior Boren good with that Alderman Rindfleisch. Did you have anything else? Just got old old buttons here Alderman Racky Thank You. Mr. Mayer. I just request a roll call vote on this. I'd like to obtain very good Any I would also say the terms and conditions of the redevelopment agreement and the ground lease are Nearly identical to ones. We've done on the South Pier previously for the molars and for others other than the blue Harbor, which was a different deal, but the only Major difference here is the uses and The rent is based on the square footage and it's the same calculation that's on the other Sites along the riverfront Thank You attorney McLean Alderman Bowers Yes, I've noticed that the value of this lease is seventy thousand dollars That's for the Land is there any valuation put on the building or we don't need to do that We're not doing that for the for the lease agreement that they'll be paying rent based on the value of the land That should be borne in mind that not only are that will they be paying the rent payment But they'll also be paying real estate tax on both the land and the improvements that they build on there and under the redevelopment agreement they're proposing to The Proposal is to invest a minimum of 450 thousand dollars worth of investment on the site. All right. Thank you Thank You Alderman Bowers There any other discussion? There is not roll call, please Hanna. Hi Hi to men. Hi. Hi Kittleson. Hi Montemay or hi Radke Epstein Rindflash. Hi Vanderwheel. Hi, Percy. Hi Longamon. Hi Boran. Hi Bowers. Hi Decker. Hi and Hammond. Hi 13 eyes one abstention motion carries 9-33 by Alderman Hanna lifting the hiring freeze in order to hire a city assessor Alderman Hanna Thank You mr. Mayor. We don't have a city assessor now, so I would put As to the resolution be put upon its passage We have a motion and a second to put the resolution upon its passage Passage under discussion vice president Rindflash. Thank you mr. Mayor My question is that since we have several of the hiring freeze questions coming in this as well and many of them involve Replacing someone that is no longer working with us Was the original language of the hiring freeze? Providing an exception for places where we're replacing Currently or did you all truly do need to come in front of the full council if it's all we're doing is simply We're not lifting the hiring freeze meeting. We're gonna add it to the to you. We're simply replacing somebody. Is that correct? So I guess my question is we are replacing somebody in this case Yes, so do the placements need to come to the council all the time or was that one of the exceptions that was provided in the hiring freeze? I believe Alderman Rindflash that the hiring freeze resolution applied to replacing persons who had Had left the city as well You know that allowed the council make a decision before replacing the person whether to decide whether or not You wanted to fill that position any longer Very good. Thank you in the city assessor is one position that I think oh, yeah, I'm saying do we need you probably need Come to the council for all the ones that we have need to replace the I think we have at this point We've come to the council with every every Replacement and new hire that we've had in the city Thank You vice president Rindflash Any further discussion on this issue? If there is none roll call, please Heidemann hi, hi Kittleson. Hi, Montemay or hi, Radke. Hi Rindflash. Hi Vanderweel. Hi, Versi. Hi, Longamon Hi, Warren. Hi, Bowers. Hi, Decker. Hi, Hammond. Hi, and Hannah. Hi 14 I motion carries 9-34 by Alderman Hannah lifting the hiring freeze in order to hire an Information technology manager who will report to the finance director treasurer Alderman Hannah Thank You mr. Mayor. I would ask that the resolution be put upon its passage We have a motion and a second to put the resolution upon its passage Under discussion Thank You Your Honor I've had a discussion with Tom Rice about this, but just so It's clear currently on the table of organization. There is no information technology manager position. It's an information technology director However It's my understanding that document will be forthcoming assuming you agree to lift the hiring freeze to appoint an information technology manager There'll be a an ordinance coming through to amend the table of organization that requires a general ordinance change But that would be forthcoming it was set up previously that the IT director Acted as a department head. We're going to have the IT manager report to the director of finance Finance director treasurer Which also I may throw in we do have two final candidates That came out of the civil service Commission today for our finance director I Have a hiring team of five individuals five department heads of the city And we will hopefully be interviewing those two candidates this week any further discussion There is no roll call, please Kettleson Montemay or I Radke. Hi, Rinfleshe. Hi, Andrew. Will I versa? Hi? Longamon. Hi Warren I bowers. Hi Decker. Hi Hammond. Hi, Hannah. Hi and Heidemann. Hi 14 eyes motion carries nine Dash 35 by Alderperson kath authorizing retaining outside legal counsel to represent the city in the matter of Schwiebel holdings LLC et al versus the city of Sheboygan and board of review for the city of Sheboygan and authorizing payment for said services Alderperson kath Thank You mayor Ryan. I move to suspend the rules We have a motion to suspend the rules. Do we have a second second motion in a second? Under discussion on suspension of the rules Is there anybody opposed to suspending the rules? If there is not the rules are suspended Alderperson kath This document is 9-27 a time is of the essence and that is the reason for this and we have a Motion to put the resolution upon its passage, please I Move that the resolution be put upon its second We have a motion and a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion There is no discussion President kiddlesen. Thank you. Are we is a document 9-35? Yes. Yes 9-35 if there is No discussion roll call, please Kittleson hi Montemay or hi ratki. Hi Rindflash, hi Vanderwheel. Hi, Versi. Hi, Longamon. Hi, Warren. Hi, Bowers. Hi, Decker Hammond. Hi, Hannah. Hi, and Heidemann 14 eyes motion carries 9-36 by Alderperson's Hannah Kittleson and versi lifting the hiring freeze in order to hire a part-time Cemetery supervisor slash administrative assistant in the Department of Public Works Alderman Hannah Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I would Ask that the resolution be put upon its passage second We have a motion and a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion If there is no discussion roll call, please Kittleson hi Montemay or hi ratki. Hi, Rindflash. Hi, Vanderwheel. Hi, Versi. Hi, Longamon. Hi, Warren Hi Bowers. Hi, Decker. Hi, Hammond. Hi, Hannah. Hi, Heidemann. Hi, and Cot. Hi, 14 eyes motion carries 9-37 by Alderperson's Hannah Kittleson Vanderwheel and versi to approve the addendum to the 2010-2011 bargaining agreement between IAFF local 483 firefighters and the city of Sheboygan Alderman Hannah Thank you again, Mr. Mayor. I Would move the resolution be put upon its passage Second we have a motion and a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion Alderman Bowers Yes Although I've read the document. I wish we someone would explain it to sort of public know what Where the addition is to the bargaining agreement Alderman Hannah would you like to explain that for Alderman Bowers? Absolutely If if you don't mind I'm going to read from the letter received by the Sheboygan professional firefighters The city of Sheboygan shall maintain a firefighting staff level a minimum of 67 members in the IAFF local 483 while the 2010-2011 contract is in effect Since it may be impractical to have immediate filling of vacancies The city would have up to 90 days to fill any vacancies that occurred effective January 1st 2011 through June 30th 2011 1.5 percent of the employees regular base pay will be deducted and applied to the employee Contribution to health insurance premiums. This is in addition to the 10% premium share are to be paid by the employees effective July 1st 2011 through December 31st 2011 3% of the employees regular base pay will be deducted and applied to the employee contribution to the health insurance premiums this again is in addition to the 10% in Year 2011 only employees will receive two days off to be taken in accordance with the department's leave of absence policy Thank You Alderman Hannah Alderman born Thank you, Mayor Ryan. I want to thank local 483 for stepping up to the plate and doing this Alderman Hannah or mr. Race. Do you know what the dollar amount of this concession will amount to Alderman Hannah roughly? Between 90 95,000 $95,000. Thank you Between 90 and 95,000 you any further discussion if there is no roll call, please come on to me or hi Ratky. Hi, Rinflesh Vander wheel. Hi, Versi. No Wongamun. Hi Warren. Hi, Bowers. No Decker. Hi, Hammond. Hi, Hannah. Hi, Heidemann. Hi, Koth. Hi, and Kittleson. Hi 12 eyes two nose motion carries 9-38 by Alderpersons Hannah Kittleson Vander wheel and versi lifting the hiring freeze in order to hire a truck driver in the Department of Public Works Alderman Hannah once again. Thank you again, mr. Mayor. I asked that the resolution be put upon its passage second We have a motion in a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion If there is no discussion roll call, please ratky. Hi, Rinflesh. Hi Vander wheel. Hi, Versi Wongamun. Hi Warren. Hi Bowers. Hi Decker. Hi, Hammond. Hi, Hannah. Hi, Heidemann. Hi, Koth. Hi, Kittleson. Hi, and Montemayor. Hi 14 eyes Motion carries 9-39 By Alderpersons Hannah Kittleson Vander wheel and versi authorizing the salary and grievances committee to review and act upon certain non-represented employee Salary slash wage issues Alderman Hannah. Thank you again, mr. Mayor. I think it's several pages before I have to do this again Resolute I ask that the resolution be put upon its passage second We have a motion and a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion If there is no discussion roll call, please Rinflesh. Hi Vander wheel. Hi, Versi. Hi, Wongamun. Hi, Warren. No Hi, I'm sorry. Hi. Thank you. Decker. Hi, Hammond. Hi, Hannah. Hi, Heidemann. No Koth. Hi, Kittleson. Hi, Montemayor. Hi, and Ratky. Hi 12 eyes two nose motion carries 9-40 lies over 9-41 is a duplicate so that will be pulled 9-41 a through 43 to be referred 9-44 to be referred that's report of committee 6 9-44 to be referred reports of committee 7 9-45 by law and licensing recommending that beverage operators license number 8077 beaten and I'd based upon the applicant's failure to include all relevant convictions on the application record of violations Related to the licensed activity and failure to cooperate with the committee vice president Rinflesh. Thank you, Mr. Mayer. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted We have a motion and a second to accept and adopt. Thank you, Your Honor. Is Stephanie Garcia here? Stephanie is not here your honor. Please continue Stephanie Garcia was Recommended for denial based on her non cooperation. She had two opportunities to attend the committee meeting and did not do so She did call me on Thursday on the 29th Stating that She worked until eight o'clock. I was not able to attend. However, she did not actually Notify us the previous two space. That's a month worth of time that she did not communicate that with us Furthermore, the police department has a negative recommendation on her license Thank you vice president Rinflesh Any further discussion? If there is none roll call, please Rinflesh. Hi Vander wheel. Hi, Versi. Hi, Blankerman. Hi Boran. Hi, Bowers. Hi, Decker. Hi, Hammond. Hi, Hannah. Hi Heidemann. Hi, Scott. Hi, Edelson. Hi, Montemayor. Hi, and Radke. Hi 14 eyes motion carries 9-46 by law and licensing recommending that beverage operators license number 5903 be denied based upon a conviction which makes him ineligible to hold the license Vice president Rinflesh. Thank you, mr. Mayor ask that the report of committee be accepted and adopted We have a motion and a second to accept and adopt Thank you. Is mr. Feldy here or Mrs. Feldy, we're not entirely sure As the description had stated the conviction that is upon Jesse Feldy makes that person ineligible to hold the license therefore recommend denial Okay, we have a motion and a second any further discussion There is no roll call, please Vander wheel. Hi, Versi. Hi, Longamon. Hi Warren. Hi Bowers. Hi, Decker. Hi, Hammond. Hi, Hannah. Hi Heidemann. Hi, Scott. Hi, Killison. Hi, Montemayor. Hi, Radke. Hi, and Rinflesh. Hi 14 eyes motion carries reports of committees eight nine dash 47 by finance recommending authorizing the appropriate city officials to enter into Contract to develop a refined redevelopment and tiff project plan for the Indiana Avenue quarter and passing the attached substitute resolution Alderman Hammond Thank You mr. Mayor I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Second could we have the substitute resolution? Accept and adopt in the substitute resolution to be put upon its passage. We have a second on that one Second have a motion and a second and a third Under discussion if there is no discussion roll call, please Versi. Hi, Longamon. Hi, Warren. Hi, Bowers. Hi, Decker. Hi, Hammond. Hi, Hannah. Hi, Heidemann. Hi, Scott. Hi, Killison. Hi, Montemayor. Hi, Radke. Hi, Rinflesh. Hi, and Vander wheel. Hi 14 eyes Motion carries nine dash 48 by finance recommending authorizing authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2010 budget Establish appropriations for improvements at Mead library for the Moss Center and establish revenue and appropriation for donations received for Independence Day celebrations Alderman Hammond. Thank You mr. Mayor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage and that be accepted and adopted And the resolution be put upon its passage We have a motion and a second on that under discussion There is non-roll call, please Warren. Hi, Bowers. Hi, Decker. Hi, Hammond. Hi, Hannah. Hi, Heidemann. Hi, Scott. Hi, Killison. Hi, Montemayor. Hi, Radke. Hi, Rinflesh. Hi, Vander wheel. Hi, and Versi. Hi, 14 eyes. Motion carries 9-49 by salary and grievances recommending referral back to the council without a positive recommendation regarding resolution number 63-10-11 by Alderpersons Gisha and Boren authorizing accepting the bid From quality cleaning of Sheboygan for the cleaning of City Hall Alderman Hannah. Thank You mr. Mayor. I make a motion to accept and adopt and I'd also if there's a second I'd also ask that Director of Human Resources Tom Rice be given an opportunity to speak because he was quite influential on my perception Do you want the resolution to be passed to open the discussion? Passed and open for discussion. Open for discussion. Okay, we have a motion to accept and adopt the report of committee and Pass the resolution for purposes of discussion. Correct. And Do we have a second on that? We have a second from President Kittleson and we have a motion to open the floor to Tom Rice We have a motion to second to open the floor to Tom Rice. All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Director Rice Ladies and gentlemen of the council The reason I feel so strongly about this resolution is because two primary reasons as you heard Joanne Decker say earlier this evening should we proceed with this the union is going to go ahead and file a grievance This is different than other Outsourcing situations primarily the one with cutting down trees Because in this particular situation there are going to be three people that are going to lose their job At this point in time If you pass this that would cause us to lay those three people off or certainly displace them, but three people would end up walking out the door somewhere if not more and We would be battling for months going forward to the grievance procedure and the arbitration procedure My best estimate is that we would have less than a 50% chance of winning that in arbitration If we lose that in arbitration the ramifications of that are that any more Outsourcing that we would attempt to do would be at best an upward battle and the precedent would already have been Established that we had lost one arbitration in it When we had the salaries and grievance committee meeting I cautioned the committee that there are other Opportunities that I think we're going to face in the future that give us a much better chance of winning the whole outsourcing argument Secondly In conversation for salaries and grievance the reason this was introduced by Alderman Gisha Was to precipitate the savings that would result from that And I said to salaries and grievance as I will say to you tonight and plead with you The council has already set forth Requirements for the 2011 fiscal year budget. I would ask the council to give The department heads the opportunity to take and put that budget together Hopefully within the guidelines that you've established for us without legislating things changes such as this There's opportunities that we can take advantage of to work cooperatively with our unions and to see if we can't secure the savings Hopefully without the reduction of any personnel So I would beg you to seriously consider not passing this resolution Giving us time to put the budget together and moving forward Thank You Tom Alderman Racky Director Rice could you explain to us what is behind your feeling that we'd have a less than 50% chance and If you're taking and talking about going to arbitration when there are jobs to be lost arbitrators typically Are not going to be particularly lenient with employers They would ask you to find other ways and use that only as a matter of last recourse So your question Dennis Attorney McLean I Can address the issue somewhat to and I didn't bring the case citations, but there are a couple of state supreme court cases dealing with the attempts to outsource City labor work where the There's two scenarios one is the type of situation where the city were to get out of the business In other words garbage collection as an example if the council chose to Get out of the garbage collection business and just let private industry handle garbage that is a decision you could make Union could grieve that but I'm confident that that would be a successful Determination as far as Doing away with the bargaining unit work However the courts as I say in a couple of state supreme court cases where the city is not getting out of the business But merely looking to save a dollar You can't just unilaterally Contract out bargaining unit work without bargaining with the union as a matter of Right it's a mandatory subject of bargaining. So that's that's my opinion to Where the the police department building was different was that there was no precedent set there We didn't have a police department building and therefore contracting out that work was not taking Current union work and contracting it out so I'd be very apprehensive in supporting proposal to Privatize the janitorial service in City Hall without bargaining that decision with the union I understand that there may be financial savings to doing that and You may be tempted to say well what the heck let's go for it anyway and see where the chips fall My advice is not to do that. I guess one other technical issue I have with the resolution is the be it further resolved at the end states the table of organization be adjusted to represent this change and The table of organization is adopted by ordinance and you cannot amend an ordinance by way of resolution ordinances Have a higher degree of precedent so you can only amend an ordinance by an ordinance That portion of the resolution Would be no void Thank You attorney McLean under further discussion Alderman born Thank You mayor. I have a question for mr. Rice One thing we would have on our side of the ledger though mr. Rice is that we have a previous practice here at City Hall that at one time the City Hall cleaning was done by an outside firm. Isn't that correct? Yes, you're absolutely correct We did that at the time when the cleaner at that point in time retired There would be at that point in time. No one was displaced There was no reason for the union to grieve that the circumstances in this particular situation are different But if if it if you if they did file a grievance you would have that history on our side of the ledger though That it was private at one time. Absolutely. Okay. I also for the for the public out there The current cost for cleaning City Hall with the two-part time people and the full-time person is a hundred and forty four thousand two hundred dollars annual annually The the bid that That we accepted if we go forward with this is from quality cleaning, which is a shabuigan business It's estimated well the first year the first year they will they would do it for sixty thousand two hundred and forty dollars Versus the hundred and forty four thousand two the second year of the contract it would be sixty two forty seven and the third year sixty-three thousand nine hundred and eight dollars as an end and as it says in the resolution at the end of three years This would be a savings to the taxpayers of Two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, which is over fifty percent savings for the taxpayers In the private sector most companies Most companies with employed with employment the size of the city of shabuigan Long ago have gone to outsourcing their cleaning services and the reason for it if they were a union shop they simply can't afford it and I don't see why we should be paying fifty percent more for our for our cleaning services This is nothing against the individuals that are doing it. I want to take personalities out of it They do an excellent job. There's no question about that But this is a tremendous savings over a three-year period and as far as trying to get some concessions From the unions our track record and the last negotiations on that was very very poor except for the fire department The public works department could have saved many many jobs if they would have made concessions last July And they refused to and basically ate their young we laid off people I have a couple former public works employees that live in my district that called me And said Alderman-Born I would have been willing to work for five or ten dollars less an hour to keep my job But basically my union sold me down the river So this is two hundred and fifty thousand dollars of sure of sure savings The rest of it as far as I'm concerned with the concept of what with negotiating with the unions based on last year is Pure speculation. This is two hundred and fifty thousand dollars of savings that are guaranteed if we outsource the cleaning service. Thank you Mayor mr. Mayor may I comment on that certainly? You're absolutely correct Assuming we win the arbitration If we lose the arbitration, we're going to have all of the legal costs involved for our attorneys to fight that battle You will have signed a contract and if they bring those employees back You will be paying back pay for those employees. So now you're going to have back pay That's old employees plus legal fees plus A contract that you're going to have to negotiate yourself out of that's one of my concerns Thank you Tom yeah, the other side of that is you mentioned the negotiations last year I Agree with you, but I think when we went into negotiations last year prior to the layoffs No union took us seriously After the layoffs took place and we went through negotiations with a cooperative effort with each one of our unions We did get concessions That's the first time in negotiations with them that we have received concessions and we receive those concessions on health care That's a pattern that started that will be continued But you have to start somewhere Jim Thank You Tom, you know what what I'm reading into this is You know basically there are certain fights that should be fought and there are certain fights that should be delayed And from you know, we hire professionals in this city To manage this city and to leave this city. That's why we have people called department heads and when I hear our city attorney and Our director of human resources both saying that it's a fight that we probably won't win And it's not a fight that they want to fight I have a tendency to listen to them all the men born with all due respect the numbers don't lie They don't lie the numbers are real the savings are real And those those I believe those numbers are correct that there's certain fights That we should be fighting at certain times and I don't believe you know, I believe the professionals in our city being Director Rice and attorney McLean when they say this is probably a fight that shouldn't be fought at this time I have a tendency to agree with them Olderman born Thank You Mary Ryan if I could just follow up in on the last on the last now on the last now therefore it be resolved Alderman Gisha, and I put in where it says the that the That the public works director would implement this change as quickly as practical My understanding from that would be and I think from the discussion at salary and grievance last week That that would that would not mean instant layoffs and higher quality cleaning I think the layoffs would come if they did if we were successful. So I from the discussion at Salary and grievance last Monday night. I don't envision any immediate layoffs. Maybe Mr. Rice can correct me if I'm wrong on that You have to have layoffs to prompt the grievance Because there has to be a resolution to what they're seeking if you don't lay off people then there's no reason to file a grievance So the grievance of the layoffs would take place the grievance would be filed the remedy for the grievance would be to bring the people back Okay, thank you time Alderman Bowers Thank you Okay, the 200 I have $240,000 in savings was this contract negotiated this past year or a year a year ago with the janitors It was part of the contracts we concluded in 0 9 Oh 9, okay. Have we have we gone back to them and say hey, we don't want to lay you off But can you give us some belief here? That's part of what the main what Steve said earlier of bargaining with the with the Union if you were to take in and Not approve this resolution We would enter into agreements or enter into negotiations with all of our unions and See if we could save any layoffs this year through concessions and through other means Rather than losing more people and that would be certainly the goal that I would want to achieve That's why I ask you not to legislate these kind of changes I think there's an awful lot of opportunity to talk to them number one because they now believe we're serious when we say We will lay off people as we go through the budgeting process obviously with to keep a zero budget and have a 3% increase next year something's got to be cut and That may be heads so when we talk about headcount It's a perfect opportunity to go back to our bargaining units and say let's work together to see if we can find a different way To save money rather than laying people off Okay, my next question is with the budget coming up And we both keep these people Is it possible we could cut that budget by two hundred and forty thousand that we'd be back to square one We you have given us the guidelines that we are to use in our budgeting process I would hope that each one of us would be able to work together under the mayor's direction to come in at that or below that number If I can if I can comment on the budgeting process We had our department had meeting this morning and we discussed it and basically What we're asking of the council in the budgeting process is that you allow The the managers of the city the directors and managers of the various departments of the city to come up with a budget To come up with a balanced budget To submit to the council rather than legislating that This department's gonna cut this and this department's going to cut that I believe that we can sit down As leaders of this city as managers of this city the people that run the various departments and know their departments Insiding out and come up with a balanced budget without the council trying to micromanage the budgeting process Our goal is to come up with this budget a balanced budget and give the council Few kicks at the cat so to speak in other words We come up with a budget presented to the council and give the council a good month to review the budget And if the council doesn't agree with the budget being balanced the way it is Then the council can make their recommendations. That's what we're asking Vice president Rindflash. Thank you, Mr. Mayor Turn McLean said it well, there's me all the men want to me want to say what the heck let's do it Anyway, the savings is real I tend to be one of those people that say, you know, $250,000 for my taxpayers is this substantial amount that I have difficulty walking away from and You know at times I'd be willing to roll the dice and and do what I can to secure the $250,000 in savings However, I've been convinced this evening that is foolish move because of as the mayor had said we do have professionals in the room that Are watching out for that financially, especially if the $250,000 savings ends up actually costing us money in the end run because of grievance and back pay in contracts and so on To me that doesn't seem well, I would do everything I can to save $250,000 Risking costing us money in order to secure that doesn't seem a logical sense to me today so I thank our professional staff, I think attorney McLean for Perhaps correcting the error of my ways being one of those that want to say previously what the heck let's roll the dice Let's do what we can. I think it's correct that at this point in time The union is well clear that We're looking at $250,000 in savings. That's something that when negotiations I think they're fairly easy to say we can save that money elsewhere if down the road And go what we can go in that direction down the road. I think they're well aware that when you do that That's what we're looking for So I will not support this at this time Despite the fact that initially I was gung-ho for this. Thank you. Thank you vice president Rin Flesch any further discussion Thank You mr. Rice Any further discussion if there is none roll call I'm sorry. Thank you mayor president Kittleson last minute. Can we just clarify here? Sure resolution. Could you please? The vote will be to accept and adopt the report of committee and pass the resolution and I vote would be to Authorize accepting the bid from quality cleaning a navel would be to not to not pass the resolution Everybody understand that? Everybody got that roll call, please Warren I Bowers, right? Excuse me. Hi Decker no Hammond no Hanna. No Heidemann I Hot I Kittleson, no Montemay or no rat key I Rin Flesch no Did you say no? No. Thank you Vander wheel. No, Percy. I long a man I'm sorry. Hi I pretty much spoke my piece on this issue Make sure we don't screw this vote up here To pass the resolution to go with quality cleaning For the reasons I cited earlier Being the place of the professionals in the city the mayor votes. No motion fails Ordinances introduced 10 950 and 51 to be referred Matters laid over 11 8-32 resolution number 58-10-11 by Alderperson's Gishabalk boring Hammond and rag key authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2010 budget establishing appropriation for tid 6 expenditures for professional services to amend the district Alderman Boren Thank You, Mayor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Second you have a motion in a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion If there is none roll call, please Decker Hammond Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Montemay or I rat key. I Rin Flesch Hi Vander wheel by Percy. I long a man And I Motion carries Just a point of clarification back on 836 that we voted no On the to accept and adapt the result to the report of committee. I'm sorry 949 949 and to not pass resolution do we need to take action to either file it or does it just stay where it is? Are you talking about the cleaning? Yes So we do need a motion on that one should file it Okay returning to 949 we have a motion to file as the As the resolution failed and a second under discussion on filing of the resolution Roll call, please on filing of the resolution Bowers I Decker hi Hammond hi Hannah hi Heidemann No, no Kittleson hi Montemay or I rat key. Hi Rin Flesch. Hi Vander wheel. I Percy. No one come in. No Warren no nine eyes five nose Document is filed Other matters authorized by law attorney McLean 952 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting a communication from Diane Tripoli general manager of Chevegas Entertainment Inc. Requesting that they be allowed to place two cones in front of their establishment at 1133 Michigan Avenue On Thursday Friday and Saturday evenings to allow their limo access to pick up and drop off customers That will be referred to PPS 953 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending June 30 2011 Will be referred to law and licensing 954 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting a communication from Schwoig and cancer care fund requesting permission to hold a non-competitive two mile four mile walk jog run on Saturday October 16 on the sidewalk walkway In front of the YMCA will be referred to public protection and safety Looking for a motion to convene and close session president Kittleson Thank You mayor. I'd make a motion to convene and close session under the exemption provided in section 19 point eight five one G Wisconsin statutes for the purpose of conferring with legal counsel for the city Who is rendering oral advice concerning strategy to be adopted by the city with respect to litigation in which is likely to become involved Relative to the north point condominium development second We have a motion in a very loud second Is there any discussion I'm moving into closed session if there is not roll call, please Bowers Decker Hammond, I Hanna item in hot eye Kittleson, I Montemay or I Radke Rindflash Vanderweal, I first see I Wongamon and born I 14 eyes sound effects here Okay, I'll Alderman are welcome to stay for the closed session meeting along with Turning McLean and our city clerk and anybody who may be may be pertinent to the issue such as our city engineer and And city zoning manager and could you close the back door, please? Thank you