 welcomes them. It's my pleasure to talk about sustainability and everything for for the short time that we have. I think it's a no-brainer like President Al Gore opened Slash yesterday to keep this planet livable. We need to do something pretty fast, but it doesn't seem like that. It's so big a theme that it doesn't really resonate. Or what do you, how did you get into sustainability and how did you choose your problems to kind of like... My perspective was always to get people excited about the changes. Yeah. Rather than to make them feel like it was an obligation or it was there were negative impacts personally. Yeah. So I've always looked at it as there are two waste streams and Cradle to Cradle theory has really driven me towards making better decisions and feeling excited about it and investing in companies that are like-minded. Yeah. So you actually started quite a few of the kind of environmental mindset things as a first editor for for interior magazines about sustainability or eco ecology. So how did you take that kind of monster and put it into something that's understandable and easily bring... Well I think people really respond to aesthetics. I'm an aesthetic animal. I love beautiful things. I like things that make me feel good. And I have always created spaces that are very kind of inviting and exciting. And I wanted to approach it in a sustainable way and to make... To prove that you could have sexy and sustainable in like one sentence. People thought that they could never be... Yeah. It can live harmoniously. So if you do that I think then people are inspired to do things that are good for them but also good for the planet. How did you see the reception of that when you started? It was slow to be able to uptake it. I think it was really a huge boon that some of the bigger magazines gave me full... I would have three to five pages a number of magazines and could just pick beautiful objects that people would first respond to aesthetically and then say oh my god these are eco-friendly that's shocking. Because I think there was always this expectation that it would be very crunchy and granola and didn't feel or look like they had wanted. Yeah. So did it like just from a personal perspective pushing something that's new to people and kind of maybe doesn't seem so mainstream or something like that. How did that feel kind of pushing that rock up the hill and when do you think it tipped that people started? I like pushing people. I find it really... So that really wasn't the problem. I think it was just having more and more opportunities to show people that there were alternatives out there that was really the biggest thing. Yeah. So now one of your jobs is also one of your many hats let's say is being an advisor to obvious ventures and to startups. How do you translate sustainability and environmentalism into something that's measurable or interesting to investors? Well to investors I mean there's a growing constituency of investors that understand consumers want products that are made without chemicals that are toxic with carbon sequestration built in with using clean renewable energy and they're adopting that and understanding that investors will gravitate towards those companies. So that's becoming easier and easier because of the demand. Yeah. So before I was always on the demand side pushing demand and now I'm on kind of the other side of it looking at companies that are actually addressing those. Yeah. You know we are measuring we have some very you know simple measuring measurement tools and we use a lot of external inputs. I personally come with this lens of cradle to cradle. Yeah. So cradle to cradle being the theory that all things that come from the earth must go back to the earth either as a biological or technological nutrient. There are only two waste streams. So I was saying to you earlier I love here you have you have recycling and you have biological waste and and then you have waste waste right in in this linear economy we used to look at there was there was a take make waste kind of belief system. Yeah. You made something you used it and you threw it away. But now we understand there is no way. Yeah. So instead we have to look at things in this circular economy that everything's constantly being put back into the system. Yeah. My company as well uses waste. So there's like you're talking about this cradle to cradle but sometimes isn't it difficult to kind of measure between some products or who is really sustainable or how much who is more or who is less or how how do you put that whole thing. You said you're a systems thinker. So how do you approach these kinds of things that have so many parameters. Well I think for us cradle to cradle is the gold standard. Right. So there's there's also there's bronze. There's there's silver. So it's a certification certification on. Yeah. And it's the certification that then informs the circular economy. So it is the highest standard. So if you're if you're cradle to cradle platinum you basically are you know using a hundred percent renewable energy you're you have no off gassing no output of negative chemicals. So that's platinum and you know it goes down from there. But that's just for me that's that's the pinnacle. OK. But there are lots of other good certifications and and I look at all of them and I you know we we launched fashion positive. OK. With with cradle cradle so that we could look at the clothing companies that were really addressing all these issues. Yeah. Including human rights. Yeah. Which is also very important. So what kind of products would be certified through cradle to cradle. So everything from home we have Benjamin Moore certified a cradle to cradle paint. OK. That's at a very high level. OK. So no VOC's volatile organic compounds are released. OK. And we have lots of clothing lines. Stella McCartney. Yeah. Has you know a ton of products that have been certified. They're still. I mean how do you. I'm just curious this wasn't part of the discussion. But anyway I'm going to ask like how do you how do you get all those criteria in there. It must be a lot of manual work or have you automated that or how do you deal with that. So it's not automated yet. It's still very high touch. OK. It's not cheap. It's not incredibly expensive because we're a non-profit. Yeah. Help supplement that. Yeah. But you we have a bunch of different certifiers a number in Europe and a number in the US. Yeah. And now we're expanding to Asia as well. And those certifying arms you'll go to an assessor and the assessor will look at the different the seven points. Yeah. And in this seven point system you know it will be all of the other things that we just talked about. Interesting. Do you foresee that kind of a system coming for let's say Slosh has probably like 10,000 companies or something like this represented here. When do you see every company being kind of ranked in some way in their total impact in the future. I mean I would love that. I think that that would definitely push every company to at least take a closer look and be introspective. Yeah. But you know I don't see that in the near term. Right. That's why we have to have things like certifiers. So you differentiate and then then it builds consumer demands. And then you're just I think you're missing an opportunity by not being conscious. Is it possible to turn that kind of non toxicity or sustainability into into a dollar sign. Like is there some sort of or is it just absolutely separate and you can't mix those two. What do you think. Well no. So it obvious our whole perspective is that you can't that combining purpose and profit makes good business sense. Yeah. So we've found that companies like you know Beyond Meat which is really rapidly growing and grows no pun intended grows meat from pea protein. Yeah. Is GMO free. Yeah. You know doesn't have doesn't have the environmental impacts of growing a whole animal and the transportation but has the mouth feel and texture and bleeds like real meat. And we think that that companies like that are showing that you know the demand is there. Yeah. Plus and plus is more. So let's talk a little bit about your work. Tell us a little bit about. Yeah. What kind of companies you've looked at or give us an example of one of the obvious ventures or. OK. So Beyond Meat was one example. Another one that I love is Plant Prefab. Yeah. Plant Prefab is building homes that are they were the first lead platinum residences. OK. And now they're going to be launching micro homes and which we see as a real shift in the United States. We've had these mcmansions which are not sustainable. The number one thing you could do to reduce your environmental impact really is a reduction of coolants. So refrigeration is actually the number one. Flying is a pretty good one as well. Yeah. Flying is transportation is like fourth on the list. Yeah. Right. So the biggest impact that you have is refrigeration. So if you could reduce that. And I was thinking about one thing everybody could do is you get in your car and you automatically turn on the AC. Not in Finland. Not today. But yeah. But in California and other places in Finland probably in the summer places with sun you don't need to do that. So but but going back to Plant Prefab there's 40 percent of materials used for a home are actually go into the waste stream. Yeah. Which is obscene. And with with Plant Prefab there's less than four percent. Wow. That's good. That's a good reduction. What about Ecofabulous. What does Ecofabulous stand for. Well Ecofabulous came out of I had two children with very severe asthma and I set out to figure out how to cure their asthma through environmental impact reduction. So I knew that it was because of the the VOC is in my home I could tell I could feel it. So I set out to do that. And I and I successfully got rid of their asthma. Wow. OK. By reduce by eliminating every toxin in the house. Unbelievable. But and I also said I'm not going to sacrifice my aesthetics. I want to have a really beautiful home. And I was able to do that and it ended up being photographed nine times with and by the way I was not a designer nor was I a chemist. Yeah. So it was just I was a passionate mother. Yeah. So it's gonna do this. But then everybody wanted to know where these products were and how to get them. And there was no way to do that. There was no repository. So I created Ecofabulous as that intersection of style and sustainability and a place to find those products. Yeah. But I did sell it three years ago to Huffington Post and now it lives on Huffington Post. OK. That's excellent. And I mean that's obviously a huge huge personal reason. But originally where did you get the spark to or the drive to do environmentalism before it was kind of mainstream. I mean now we have Al Gore opening slush. So it's pretty cool now. I think. I mean honestly I was I was born on a hippie commune. And so where we had to use everything we didn't even have traditional toilets. We so we knew. Yeah. We knew where everything came from and where it was going to go. I mean this is this is beyond. So. But yes. So that was my my personal kind of journey was to figure out how do I live more consciously. Yeah. Wonderful. Let me take a question from the audience. With regards to certifiers there will always be ambiguity. How do you make sure everyone is on the same page. So the most important thing with that is really training. So the cradle cradle product innovation in Institute. We have very standardized ways to look at it and then we train all the assessors. And by the way if there's anyone who would potentially like to be an assessor we are constantly trying to train assessors so that we can grow the certification program. Yeah. But we do have very strict criteria and and there is and then we also have all the protocols. Yeah. That are online and accessible to everybody. What about are there like kind of international standards or protocol about that. I mean either in the U.S. or internationally or what do you see happening to that. There's so many. Well we use OKA techs and gots as partners. OK. So we're looking at the standards that are already already kind of there. Yeah. People understand and that they that they respond to. So yeah. Also like USDA organic. Yeah. Is the only organic standard that anybody actually trusts. Yeah. So we use all of the trusted inputs and then we and then we layer on to it. Yeah. OK. I know we have a little time but I'll ask you that's a good one. USDA organic as well sometimes it's difficult to know what the kind of supply chain has been in something whether it's an industrial product or something that you're buying for your home because that organic you know really well treated thing might have come twice around the globe for transportation or and this this professor from from here actually did a study where they looked at the footprint of oil food oil that they were doing and they followed transport everything. Everything possible and the biggest footprint was that the bottle was kind of wrinkly and there was oil being left in the bottle. So the oil was so heavy to produce in the ground and you know doing all the farming and all the all the stuff that goes to food production was so high energy intense that that that was the biggest footprint. How do consumers or people how do you do diligence on these companies for example and see what there's a whole supply chain is because it's so difficult. So that's a good question. I think that's why you need certifiers. Yeah need and again this is a nonprofit. I am in no way benefiting from this in any way except for as a human being on this planet who cares. And I think you need certifiers. So there are people who are who have no investment in it. And that's that's why we wanted it to be a nonprofit and took it out of Michael Brown Garten Bill McDonough created cradle to cradle as a philosophy and as a structure for looking at things. Yeah. So for me that's that's why I helped start the Institute so that we would have somebody independent party that was trusted that in no way benefited from any a company. Yeah. Quick last one. So so obviously preaching to the choir. There's a crowd of technology savvy people interested in you know global development goals and so on. What would be one thing you would like people to work on. How do we use these people's brains who are around us now to the benefit of the planet. I mean I started I started near Future Summit. Yeah with the idea that we had to look at solutions. Yeah. Rather than so I never look at what the problem is. I always look at what the solution is. So and that's I'm a I was think I'm a transbutter in the solution space. OK. So what are the things where the advancements happening. Yeah. Most rapidly and most effectively. And so as if you're a company that is you know trying to put better products into the world looking at where where the where solutions most needed. Yeah. And so that's kind of how I always approach things. And again companies investors are more and more conscious of the products that they're investing in and you'll have smarter investors looking at you if you're addressing social and environmental impacts. Thank you. Two seconds left. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.