 panel discussion. I'll just quickly say a few words and get the panelists started with introduction. The way, so the broad topic here is, is it agility or is it fragility in disguise? I've been working with agile development for a while. I go around the world, help companies try to implement agile development and develop certain opinions and observations. Fred, please come on in and let's get you a chair. And so one of the things that's been really interesting to observe is agile used to be something that a few companies and organizations tried over the years. But now there is a mass adoption and and anything gets to that level. People are gonna try different things. One of the things I've observed over the years, I'm a programmer by trade and back in time I remember how we almost endlessly argued if objectoriedness is gonna work or not. And it took a long time for us to realize what it is and get better at it. And then as we did we kind of still are struggling to a certain extent but most of us have taken the time to learn, try, fail and then learn. In a way that I see that process goes through a similar transition where there are people who are successful then huge number of people come on in and then they try and then they fail, they succeed and then they learn from their experience over time. But what I noticed over several projects that I observed is that companies are trying to be agile and when I walk into companies they immediately tell me they're agile. But my concern really is not what they do but really what they get out of it. Are they succeeding with it? So that's kind of the stage for this particular panel. I'd like the panelists to take a few minutes, introduce themselves, who they are and while they're doing that I want you to be thinking about questions. I'm sure the panel is much rather here your questions than my canned questions. So I'll let the panelists introduce, come up with your first question as you do. I got a microphone for you when you're ready so please. So just talk about myself a little bit? Yes please. Okay. So I'm Dave Hoover. I live in Chicago, learned about extreme programming back in when Kent, probably a year after Kent Beck wrote the white book and then aspired to be a thought worker for a couple years and then finally slipped in the back door and got to work there for a couple years. After that I couldn't, I can't do the sort of travel rigmarole that they value and take advantage of so much. So I joined a small consultancy in Chicago. We grew that to about 50 people. The company was called up Tiva and then it was