 Shall we get started at 702. Yep. Okay. So I'll call the meeting to order. Public comment for items not on the agenda. I had one item. Sort of on agenda, but not really. So I just want to put it out there. I mentioned to everybody that the friends of group was not able to. Put it together to do the guided tours of the town hall. For the fall foliage weekend. Yeah. So the friends have decided to. Move forward. And open up a window of two hours. On Saturday, October 24th. From 10 a.m. Offer a guided to anyone who might be interested. And then we'll get started. Are you going to, are you going to post that on front porch forum? It'll be posted on front porch forum and then email will go out to anyone who's a member of the friends group. And we'll keep it. Like we talked about before where each tour will last about 15 minutes. Minimize it to groups of around six. At a time. And everyone will have to wear masks and use the hand sanitizer and use the hand sanitizer. And then we'll get started. Are there any volunteers this time? Yes, we do. It was the first thing we said is, you know, we can't do this unless we can get volunteers. So what weekend works for everybody. And that's how we ended up on the 24th. So we'll have one person outside. Coordinating people who are waiting to take the tour. And then another person will actually be. Guiding the tours. Okay. Sounds good. Okay. Are there any additions or changes to the agenda? Okay. We had talked about. Scheduling agenda items for the board. Why do I hear? Did I hear Alfred? Yeah, he's just now coming on. Okay. He's coming. Okay. Go ahead and bring him on board and. All right. So did the way we did it this last time, did that work for everybody? Your agenda items. The only person I heard back from was. Cliff, I think, because he had something he wanted me to add. Keep doing it anyway. Denise. Denise did what we asked her to do. Thank you, Denise. Keep doing it. We'll get better. Okay. Like I said, I'm not going to babysit. So I don't know if Sandra is going to join us or not. Cause this was. She's coming on board now. Perfect. And we're going to need to call up the VLCT stuff. I did look at that. And I had a couple of questions. Okay. Hi, Sandra. How are you? Happy indigenous day. Happy indigenous day. Did you get to take the day off? Pretty much. I did. Good for you. Yeah. I am not hearing anyone. We're waiting for Cliff to call up. VLCT. Which document do you want to start with? I guess whatever. For whatever one is first in the lineup there that Katie put in. That would be the property schedule. Yeah. Would you like to start with the property schedule? Sandra. Well, yeah, sure. Perfect. Okay. Let me open it and share it. Okay. You should be able to see it now. Okay, great. So this is a list of all of the buildings are. In the town and how much they're valued at. And then there's contents. And I wanted to ask about. Do we think the value of. Is this in the shared folder? I'm not seeing it. Yeah. That is. There's a, there's a folder in the meeting folder called VLCT. Looking. Oh, VLCT renewal. Yep. Yeah. That's an odd name. Oh, I see. Okay. The sub folder. Okay. The. Okay. This is the property schedule, John. Got it. Okay. So do we think that the town hall value is. Accurate with all of the renovations. That's the, that's the new value after renovations, right? That's the value that. We put on it last year. And so the building is in a different state of completion this year. However. That that value may not need to be changed. For instance, whether or not the floors were. Sanded and finished is not going to change the building value. That sort of thing. But I don't know. What the difference. If the difference between the building now and last year, this time should make that value go up and. That I reached out to John. I haven't heard from him. It's not really within my belly wick to figure out a building value. I don't exactly know the difference between now and 2019 at this time. So that's why the select board really needs to decide. What they think that value is. That's why the select board really needs to decide. What they think that building value ought to be at this point in time. In other words, the cost of what it would take to re. Build the whole building. I mean, the elevator. Alone is $30,000. And I don't think it was in. Last year at this time again, I'm not sure. No, I don't think it was because I just got put in this, this year. So select board. Do you think we should up the value? And if so, how much. I mean, I don't know how we. Does can be LCT come in and do an estimate. Well, is this the. Go ahead. Replacement value for insurance purposes or is this the. Real estate value. They can be very different. It says guaranteed replacement value. And the valuation type there, GRC. And that is the replacement cost without regard to the building value limit shown on the property schedule where the cost to repair or replace is no more than 4.5 million. And I think we're well below the 4.5 million. So I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. The threshold or I should say ceiling. So. I mean, I might say 1.5 million gets it. But it's really up to the board. And again, the contents. I don't know. Maybe the contents is right. Well, there's not really that much. That's not the case. So. Is this a replacement or are they considered that building. Value. If we were going to replace the building, we wouldn't replace it with that building. Yeah, we couldn't because it's historic. So. I would, I think, and the, and I don't know what bearing the market has on this. But. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I would go up a little bit. I don't know if I'd go up to 1.5. Maybe 1. Three. One 1.2. Two and a quarter. You know, 1.2 50. Yeah. I was thinking 1.3. So it's about. But it might be worth. Before we have to do this again. Putting a tickler. I don't know. June having somebody come out and actually. Assess it. Who does that? Is it the list or is. We hire somebody. It's a post and beam structure. So. I know when I was evaluating our property before we bought it. Actually, this is an argument to convince my wife that it was a post and beam structure. Provided the dimensions to Liberty head post and beam. And this town hall is a post and beam structure. And they value gave me evaluation just on the frame. The house and the frame of the barn. And just by way of comparison in 2000. In 2000. Our barn, which is smaller. Overall than the town hall. So the frame alone. Was pushing $300,000. That's just a frame. That's without a crane to put it up. That's without siding or clapboards or foundation. Or a heating system or standing seam roof. So if you get the picture. I mean, John say again what it was. I muted the wrong button. It was just this post and beam frame to replace that. Was about $300,000 in 2000. I would conjecture it's probably half a million. For the barn, our barn. So. That. The town hall structure is arguably much larger. It's one, two, three stories. And then some. And it's probably equivalent footprint to our barn. And then you got foundation and you got the. Actually a new insulated foundation and the heating system. The standing seam roof, the sheeting. The clapboards, the paint job. It's, it's easily. I mean, I think the frame on that would probably cost with a crane putting. 800,000. And that's just the beginning, right? So easily at $1.5 million replacement cost. That's, but that assumes we're going to replace it with what's there now. Well, it has to do with your insurance. Right. Exactly. So if you were going to replace the exact building. You want to insure it for what that value is. If you insure it as a stick built building, it would be valued much less. Exactly. I agree with that. But I think it's a. And I don't know, you know, what it costs to build it at its. At its actual replacement value. Well, and if it were, haven't forbid it or to burn down, we would want, I would think we would want to replace it with something that looks very similar to what is currently there. Well, well, the actual. Cash value always incorporates the idea of minus depreciation. And probably wouldn't. You might not want to do that. So, so our. Really limits the insurance companies liability. And then you're arguing over the amount of depreciation of the building. I think you guys are mixing things up. So like we have insurance for replacement value on our home. The appreciation has nothing to do with it. It's the cost to replace the structure. And the post and beam structure, sheathing and clapboards and build it exactly the way it was. So you wouldn't know the difference that it would look nice and new and shiny. That has that's for insurance purpose, which has nothing to do with depreciation or tax rate offs or market value. I mean, frankly, that market value that hall. You know, the value to the value to replace the cost to replace that hall is probably three times its market value. Frankly. No, you're right. You're right. You're right. I shouldn't have brought market into it. But I mean, I don't feel strongly about it. I'm not sure I agreed to any said, we lost that building that we would replace it. I mean, there's not a lot of examples of that in around where, you know, something like that, when something like that's gone, it's gone. But. I don't really. It doesn't matter if we replace. It's, it's, it's not about us replacing the building. It's that we get, we have it insured. For its intrinsic value. If we were to replace it so that that is an option. That's how it's insured. We could choose not to replace it at all. We could say, you know, the school is closing. We're going to buy the school for a dollar and put our eggs in that basket for municipal purposes. You know, but we would still get that million and a half dollar insurance check, and we could spend it on other stuff or put it in the bank or something. So what's, what's the difference though between. And I'm, I'm curious what, what's the implication. Of 1.3 versus 1.5. In terms of. Is it is, is our coverage already. We already have coverage just from being a member or does that increase our premium? That was what I was going to ask. It seems like it would increase our premium somewhat. I would think it goes up. It's, it's not that much. It's not that much. And I know my state farm premium that has the replacement value. And then there's a percentage over and above that. Based on, you know, it's the best guess. So, you know, let's say the replacement value of my house was 400,000. It burns down. And it actually costs, you know, 500,000. I think they'll, they would cover that is a percentage of the base value that they will go over and above. Under a replacement cost insurance policy. So that's built into it. I would assume the league policy is built the same way, but I don't know. Sandra, if we were to increase the value. To 1.5. Do we just. You just write that in there and then they send us a. New premium amount. Yes. You, you would click. Change. And you would write in the new building value that you. Would care to ensure that there is another. Just so you know, you have property valuation options. So that column that says valuation type. Notice that everything is at the guaranteed replacement costs. So you're paying premiums based on that. Until you get to the doc wrapped porta potty piece. And then you have an agreed and a V value. So you're agreeing to the value at that one. And you're, you're, you're looking right on your property schedule. So there is a description that they provide for you that discusses what kind of coverage you are purchasing. So, you know, you could get historical reconstruction costs. HRC. We chose not to do that last year. John thought. That this guarantee replacement cost was going to be just fine. So you can take a look at those definitions. And the, it's in your folder. Because those are options as well. So do so select board members. Are we thinking we want to increase that value to about 1.5? And see what we get back with what the premium would be. Well, I guess I don't think it's going to go up that much. Frankly. I don't either. What is our, our premium now, Sandra. I don't have the break. Maybe I do. So I'm looking at the guarantee replacement cost definition. They don't break it out. They don't break out the premium per building. For our. General, our general property premium. Is. Last year was 5838. 5838 plus the boiler. And 472. That's how they do it. So I don't have a break out. You don't break it out per building. I don't think it would, I mean, I, I. When we've increased our insurance on our homeowners insurance and stuff, it hasn't. The premium hasn't. Gone up excessively. We may want to ask what the difference. Is between guaranteed replacement value and historic construction cost. Reconstruction cost. I mean, what, what is the difference in terms of level of coverage. And what. Down to what level of detail each provides. And then what is the difference in premium costs per annum. Do you think that they would grant us an extension, Sandra, to. Have them help us and maybe they could come to the. A next select board meeting and explain some of this stuff to us. Sure. I feel certain they would, they may want a. My guess is they're going to ask for at least a preliminary. Application so they can get us into their pool. Yeah. And then we, we can tweak that. With them. As I said, you do have a description of your coverages. It is. One of the, it's in your Google. It's in your email. Yeah. Yeah. I remember looking at it. And I'm sure they would entertain. I'm sure they would come to a zoom meeting and. Discuss that with you. What I would suggest is that you have your questions ready. So if you want to go up to one point, if, if you decide that 1.5 million as your mark. That's the different premium for a building. Covered with historical coverage as opposed to guaranteed replacement cost at 1.5 million dollars. And again, a one, a one point. You know, one to 50. So that they could be prepared to answer your questions. It's looking like just my quick review of the historic reconstruction costs. I think it's, it's a good option. It's a good option. It's a good option. It's. As good a policy as the guarantee replacement cost policy. It looks like they can pick the least of the. Least cost. Option of three options. And one is the property schedule value of valuation of property schedule. So. You know, it's grand list value, which was probably around half a million. So we, I think I'm guessing. I think that's a good option. I think that's a good option. I think that's a good option. I think that's a good option to go with with that building. Okay. That's the true value of it to replace it. So Katie, are you making notes of what we want to ask the LCT? With regard to this, because I think we're, I'm going to have, I have some more questions on this. On this form. Hang on though, John. Hang on. I read, I just read it too. It is. It's not a or B or C. It says the least of the following. That's the first. This language. Yeah. So that's badly done because then you've reached that. That. The end of that sentence says without deduction for depreciation period. In the event that such materials, workmanship and architectural features are not reasonably available. Historic reconstruction costs means one of these two other things. So, so the least of the following. Is not. I would not give that a lot of meaning. In the way the rest of the paragraph is constructed. I would say, let's go to 1.5 million and say we want, it's 1.5 million historic reconstruction costs and see what happens. And next year. Get somebody on the calendar. Earlier. Why would we, why would we go with that? Guaranteed replacement cost. I would not give that a lot of meaning. In the way the rest of the paragraph is constructed. Dangerous language. If you ask me. I would say, let's go to 1.5 million and. And say we want, it's 1.5 million historic reconstruction. I would not give that a lot of meaning. I would not give that enough to guarantee replacement class at 1.5. Guaranteed will get us a hundred percent without question. Right. Okay. All right. 130%. That's that member. I told it. There was that. That variance percentage. They go up to 130%. Yeah. So that's standard insurance language. Okay. So let's pencil in 1.5 for that. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. That same document. I think the town office isn't. High enough either. I think they value that at 274 something thousand. We increased. That number last year. 75. To that 275. So. Okay. I, you know, I don't. I don't know. I don't know. But this is really what the board has to work on. Yeah. What are you comfortable with? It doesn't seem like that. Building could be replaced for that. Money. No, it doesn't seem like it. Nor the context. Does anybody know the square footage of that building? The town office. Yes. I don't. John, do you know. I don't know. I don't know. I think that looks probably like a 30 by 40. What are construction costs right now? Is it like 175. Per square foot. 150. Probably 170. 200. I mean, anybody. Andra. Pardon me. Actors. I do. I typically will quote people 200 per square foot. But that's residential and this is commercial. So I don't know if that should go up or down actually. Because the level of finish is not. As nice as maybe a home. So let's do. So let's do 175. What do you get? What was that again? 30. I just erased it 30 times 40. At 200. It's 240. Well, there you go. All right. The contents value really seems low. Yeah, it does. Yeah. Without, I mean, the vault alone was like. 10 or $20,000 just that alone. Well, I think the, if, if the replacement of the building is roughly 220,000. And then you add, let's say 40,000 for the vault, you're still in there in that building value. The contents would be your. Computers. Printers. The toilet paper supply. Yeah. Your desk sense so forth would be, would be anything that what isn't nailed down. So maybe that's pretty close. Yeah. The fault wouldn't have to be replaced though, because that's like 12 inch. That concrete box with a metal. Right. Except for it might get damaged by the. Yeah. Stuff inside rows might not burn, but the vault itself might get damaged. Or the door. I think the door is a big ticket item on that vault. I think that's a good idea. I think that. That's a sizable. Cost. When you're talking about the door. Yeah, we got it used. All right. So we want to want to move on. I did have a question about the contents of the town garage. Only at 50,000. So if all the trucks and the. All the. All the gizmos and gadgets are in there and the place burns down. $50,000. What is that going to cover? Well, the equipment. The vehicles and mobile equipment are covered under their own separate schedule. Oh, okay. I did see that. Okay. And. And he just didn't make an opinion on the town hall with. Or the town office. Right. So $50,000 with all those. Hand tools and welders and. All that stuff that. We replace all that. Alfred. Yes, I believe it would. I mean, there's really not a lot of contents in there. We don't have a lot of tools we've got. We do have a welder and an air compressor. We don't have a lot of tools. We don't have a lot of tools. And some hand tools, but really it's not that much. So, I mean, that's why I felt, felt comfortable with that number. Okay. And knowing that the vehicles are all covered under their own policy. Yeah, I wasn't sure if they were not. I did see that other schedule, but I didn't know if that meant that they were covered. If they were inside in the place burned down. Because that has happened. But they are covered. Those vehicles are covered no matter if they're in the building or out beside the road. Okay. Yeah. All right. So. From this page, it sounds to me like we agreed that we want to. Increase the building value of. Town hall to 1.5. And that's the only change we're going to make. Are we in agreement on that? Are you going to increase the contents of the town office? I don't think so based on what Sandra just said. I mean, I think it's, we have to, what do we have desks? Yeah. And the computer, let's look at it like this. We figure we need to do a change over every. Five years of our server and our. Computers. And that's roughly what 18. $20,000. About 20,000. Yeah. So. That's pro and our desks are like all built-ins. It's not. That we actually even have desks. There's the table and chairs. What else is in there? Yeah. The copier and that was $3,500. Yeah. So, you know, it's, it's really what you're, my worry or my greatest concern was the town hall. And if that should be increased, if you want to go higher with the contents. Of the town office that it, you know, that's up to you. I think it's good. Again, I'm not an expert. I don't know that. I don't know that. So, so what is that? There's another page, right? Oh, that's just a total page. Oh, okay. That allows that just allows additional. Buildings. All right. So. It sounds from what I've heard. And if we're in agreement. And we want to increase the value of the town hall to 1.5. Do we know what the deductible is on this? Higher deductibles lower rates substantially. I don't know that there is a deductible. I don't, they don't quote a deductible anywhere. Wow. Yeah. It's probably different for stuff like this. Yeah. We're part of a kind of a cooperative where. We're self-insured. And I don't ever remember seeing a deductible on anything. All right. I think there's a deductible on the equipment. You mean like, For like, when, yes, because I've, I've checked into replacing a windshield before and it's, there's $500 deductible. That's just class. But that's different. That's the vehicle part. This isn't vehicles. This is buildings. We may want to look into a. There's a separate policy addendum you can get for vehicles. This is on the. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. We may want to look into having. Seeing what it would cost to improve our glass coverage. Broken windshields and. You know, Sand blasted windshields and stone chip windshields are common in Vermont. And those are usually good policies to. Improve upon. So on the very last page tucked in the back here, the standard, it says the standard property, casualty deductible is $1,000 for most members. All members continue to have a $2,500 deductible for employment liability. The standard property. This is liability. Public officials liability and law enforcement liability. Casualty. That's 2,500 for. Basically employment. Liability and then standard property casualty deductible as a thousand for most members, it says. So it's about a thousand bucks. Can we get a consensus that we want to increase this to. 1.5. You need to make a move that we. 1.5. The. The town hall. Insurance policy and that we go with the. Guarantee replacement cost. Policy type. Okay. I'd second that. So I can't see everybody. Wait a minute. I got to. Move around. All right. All right. So Rose, do you want to, are you ready to vote? Yeah. I. Okay. And I'm an eye. John. Hi. Chris. Hi. Sharon. Hi. Hi. Okay. Next up in that packet of stuff. This is the. Renewal application itself. Okay. So Sandra just has to sign that. Right. Standing with the change. Now I did have a question on. I read all of this and I did have a question, but don't point it down. I forgot to write it down. We don't have sewer. Thank goodness. Don't have any covered bridges. Okay. And their employment law. It says, has your municipality adopted a personnel policy. Or an employee manual handbook? Don't they just want yes or no answers and you put it. They just want to yes or no. It's a lot. That's it. So why is there a one there? It's a binary answer. What? He's being funny. Okay. You know, that's not actually what I'm looking at that there should be a yes, actually. That's not our answer. If you scroll. To the top of that page. You're going to see that that, that was last year's answer. Although last year's answer wasn't a one. It was a yes. And then 2021. We are to answer in that column. Okay. So you have to fill in that column then. Yes. Okay. And then under cyber risk. Didn't we do, or do I know we talked about doing a cyber. Risk training. Did we do that? You remember that? We talked about doing that. We had had a formal training. Okay. We did. We talked about having. RB. We talked about it. It never came to fruition. As I recall. They had given us some different options and even discuss the possibility of pooling with some other clients of theirs for some generalized training. But. For whatever reasons we decided not to go forward. I think the office staff felt that they were comfortable enough with the current circumstances. And should they, they felt that they could voice the concern if they thought it would be necessary to schedule something like that. Okay. The other thing that we had discussed with RB tech is they suggested. Should we decide we want to pursue this. Rather than come back to RB tech, we decided we wanted to make sure that we were able to do that. So we decided to go ahead and check with the LCT first, because they provide the service. And it would be less expensive. Okay. Can you make a note so we can make sure we follow up on this at some point. And it says, um, do you have written computer. And information systems policy that govern employee usage of these devices. So we could change that to a yes. Yeah. And it looks like. The question about credit cards also got converted to a binary response. Yeah. And that should be in a yes, because we do have a. Policy. Where's that binary response. Yeah. I don't know why that's a one. I can't. It's just a typo on their part. Okay. I think we got that covered. Okay. Hang on. The other, we didn't talk about it, but. Uh, the other blank. That I'm seeing is the one about. The website and copy bright copyright infringement. Is there a process to review content to ensure copyright. Infringement is avoided. Now that I'm aware of. I don't think we, we don't have. A policy. Or a process. I mean, the answer is just no. Yeah. Well, We do review stuff to make before it goes on the website. We would also know if we have a committee or anything. Is that what they mean? If we published a feed from some other information source onto the town website. Then you would want to be able to review it and see. You know, okay. Is it okay for us to publish this on our website without getting permission from the original author? That's really what they're trying to get to the point out here. We don't do anything. Anything we publish on the website. With stuff that's been materials that's been developed by the town. I agree. It's really, I'm not saying it's big risk. I mean, I think we're really low risk. But. I mean, Sandra, have we gotten away with just leaving that blank before. That might be a new question. But no, we always answer it. And if it's hang on, let me look at the last. The last. Application. Let's see what they have. We answered, we actually answered that last time as a no. So again, you know, I don't know how they pick up our prior answers. I, it's imperfect. But we answered it last time. No, because we don't have a process. But in, and back to what Chris said, whatever's on our website is generally anything. We have produced, or it is a VLCT document, or V trans document. Um, And those aren't copyrighted. So we can just put no here. Yeah. I think, I think they're asking if we have a process and we don't. Not really. Isn't that, isn't that what you're asking? Yeah, that is what they're asking. And that is the answer. Yep. And they'll let us, they'll let us know if they think that's a big problem. Okay. So what's next in this package? Um, Other of these questions we need to review. There's. We don't have a, yeah, we don't have a boiler. Yeah. I'm comfortable with Sandra. Answering the questions, especially given that we just, you know, it wasn't a very hard one, but we just found our way to getting comfortable with the answer is in fact, no. So, um, So that gives Sandra comfort of knowing that when the answer is no, you just say no. Yep. Say it like it is. Okay. What's next? Um, I think the number for the. Estimate the number of volunteers is that. Um, Hang on. I think I counted them and a way, no, hold on. I know if you were going to. Have every, every single person on that. List, I think it's about a hundred people or so. I just put 17 again. I mean. How, I don't know how many, what volunteers are there. They're the election volunteers. There's the. There's all of the volunteers for every board commission and committee. Right. We can put. I don't know what they want. That's up. I guess I would leave that up to you to ask them and ask them what they're looking for. Yeah. I mean, Is it 20? Is it a different number every year? We can, we can, I can ask them. What they're looking for there. Yeah. Just ask them and then fill it in. Ready to move on. Is that the end of it? Other than the, the other one is just all the different trucks and. All that stuff. I don't know what to look at. Right. The vehicle listings, estimated payroll. We can take a quick look at each of these. I did have a question about the workers comp. Page. Well, that. That page. I need. You're. If you feel. Comfortable with an estimate. Other than what the LCT. Has. All right. Right now we're looking at the vehicles. Does anybody have any issue with that? Or can we move on to. Any questions on vehicles for Alfred? Nothing for me. Okay. So the workman's comp one, which is the next one up, I think. Why is the estimate. For administration. Lower for FY 21 and FY 20. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what to look for them. I was just curious, it seems odd. I think when they, when they. Audit us. If we are lower than so for instance, in 2019 hour. Audited payroll was 158, 709. And. Hang on. I don't get audited again until. March. Right. So they're just estimating based on what we're estimating. But they don't have any real numbers for the 2020 current payroll because we don't have a 2020. Number yet. It's not the end of the year. So probably I kicked that up to 163 to cover the. The next year. The next year. The next year. The next year. The next year. The next year. The next year elections this year. Right. That would, that would push us over a little bit in terms of hourly rates. But they're looking back at. At 2019 and making an estimate on, on a real on a hard number that they've already audited. And that is my best understanding. Of what they're doing. And I'm going to go back to that. I'm going to go back to the estimate for 2021 is 163,000. I just went and looked at all the administration through one. We don't have any. Elections, but figured. All right. Let's just throw in a 2% increase on that. And I put it in at 163. If we are under that, we get a refund. So it's not, I mean, it's a fluid. Estimate. That's all it is as an estimate. And then they decide if we're. Lower or higher than what we paid premiums on. So what I didn't want to do is estimate the. Highway necessarily. I didn't know where you were in your negotiations. So it was the town hall that caused me. And it was the town hall on the highway wage. Lines that I had most difficulty with. And I wanted to reach out to the board. And have their, your input. Before I send this in. Okay. I was just curious as to how that came about. Okay. So. VLCT is doing it. Just put the finer point on what's on Sandra said. The 2021 VLCT estimate. It's a 1.5% increase over the 2019 numbers, which is as Sandra said, their last audit, their last hard number they had to work with. Yeah, they sent us this. Great forecast for 21. So we can be done with this because we've spent a lot of time on it. Yes. So just to, just to draw your attention. One last place, the parks and recreation. That he's going to have to go down from 40, you know, from that 44, from that $4,000 range to 2,500. We don't have a swim program this year. Right. And perhaps not next year. We don't have an invasive. We don't have a, we don't have a, we don't have a VCs grant. But what we do have is our cemetery. Oh heck. Sexton is getting a $2,500 stipend. And that's what that reflects. Okay. All right. So I think we're done with this. Any, anybody have any. I can't see. Okay. Anybody have any questions for Sandra? What do you want to do with highway wages? Yeah. I don't think we have an answer. Why don't we. May I suggest we, we want to get this in. They've extended us our deadline. May I suggest we simply use their estimate. And if it's too low, they will, upon audit, they will backfill us. Yeah. If it's too high, we will get a refund. And, and we can manage it in that way. I'm lucky to plan to me. Is that shaking their head? Yes. Okay. Yes. I was just going to suggest, oh, we lost Toby. Before we, before we go on and lose Toby and Alfred, I was going to say, we should go back to the scheduling items because. I don't think we said out loud what, what you're trying as a new practice around getting agenda items. Do you buy a date certain. Yeah. Well, Alfred's still here. Yeah. So I forgot what we said. Was it, was it Thursday? Yeah. It's Thursday and we, and this was the practice we had before. It's used generally Thursday by noon. And Alfred and Toby. Are supposed to get items to me frequently. I get an item. At the last minute, Toby will send something out. And I've got to hurry up and try to. Fit it in. So unless it's an urgent or an emergency, then it's going to not, it's going to get kicked to the next agenda. Next. Board meeting unless I get it. On Thursday by noon. Well, and it might get kicked to another board meeting anyway, if there's other. More pressing issues, but yes. So Thursday at noon. Yeah. Alfred. Yeah. Are you still there? Yes. I am here. Yes. I can hear you. Okay. I mean, that's the practice we used to have a lot of times. I would send out an email to everybody and say, do you have anything? And I would hear. Dead silence. So sometimes I think maybe my email went out into outer space somewhere. So I leave it up to everybody to. Get me their information by the noon on Thursday. Well, and that's so we can have a. We can look at a draft agenda and see what it looks like. Does that make sense, Alfred? It's not just get it in or you miss it. It's get it in so the board can see, okay. What's on our plates. Do we have time for all of this? Are we going to be able to have the right kind of discussion? And what, right? And you have time to digest it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to say, I, I think it's a good idea. I think it's, you know, it's, um, it's a productive practice and I, for the record, I just want to say that I don't usually generate agenda items. So if it looks like I'm not getting back to Denise, it's because I don't usually have items that I need to have put on the agenda. So I read it. I, um, you know, I review it. But I don't generate items. So. Yeah. I appreciate, I appreciate you taking the steps to do that. I think, I think it's helpful. Okay. Well, I think that's right. I think we, we as a group tend not to be the ones generating items. They come from other places. Right. It's for us to have a chance to see what's on the, what's on the lineup and say, Hey, Hey, hang on. We've got five items that are half-assed. That's not going to work. No, we have to be able to manage the items. That's why sometimes I'll push something to another meeting because it's just going to take too long. Are we, because we already have too much to do. Yep. Yep. Good idea. Yeah. So thank you. If I, if I could just add to that. Also some things that I've noticed is. Sometimes when the curb cuts come in. Yeah. They, they hardly get. To us to look at, or the select board to look at, and it's on the agenda. To discuss. So I think on the same token, the, the, the curb cuts and some of the right away permits. Need a little more time to be looked at also. Before they make it to the agenda. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. Yeah. Well, maybe, maybe the curb cuts needs to come to the agenda. Front through Alfred. Well, how does that work? Alfred, do you get it at the same time? You get it at the same time. I get it, right? Yeah. Usually goes, goes to the town clerk. And then she distributes out to us and we look at it. I just can remember not too long ago. A few, a few of them came in and it was like, wow, all of a sudden it's on the agenda. And we haven't had time to. Right. I think some of those were people were in a hurry because it was summer and they wanted to get it in. Well, I know, but it works the same way where everybody's in a hurry to get things done, but there's still a process that needs to be in place. Right. What I was going to finish my sentence with was Alfred, and I get it if you let me know that you've got it. And when you're going to have a chance to look at it, that would help. Okay. Thank you. I just wanted, yeah, thank you for slowing down. So Katie can capture. With some clarity. So it's. We're on record. Everyone can see it. Okay. Is Toby back or can he be back? He hasn't rejoined. I think someone would have to prompt him. Okay. Okay. Cause I wanted to talk about this. We've been asked to sign this letter from CBR PC. It's our standard. Letter. I just wanted to know if he had anything. To add to that. Is he textable? Don, can you text him? He's doing something. I'm going to try calling him. There you go. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, Sandra. Hi, Sandra. Have a good evening. Have a good evening, everyone. Good night. Good night. So what was that pain? That's probably just Sandra exiting. Oh, okay. That's Toby's voicemail. Do you have another meeting tonight? I have no idea. Toby, we need you back in the studio. Please call in. I'm going to text you while we're waiting for Toby. John, what's the mobile number you have for Toby? Seven, nine, three, four, nine, nine, six. I think it's three, seven, one, seven, five, nine, two. I'll try texting him at that number. Okay. So you have another meeting tonight. I have no idea. Toby, we need you back in the select board meeting. Please call in. I'm going to text you while we're waiting for Toby. Cliff. John, what's the mobile number you have for Toby? Yeah. So Cliff, can you talk and. Do that at the same time? Huh. So while we're waiting so we don't lose time anymore time. How's the exterior painting of the town hall? It's going well. I stopped by on Friday and. Checked in with Grady. And he said he's in the home stretch. He was working on the side of the building. He was working on the side of the building. He was working on the side of the building. He was working on the side of the building. Further from the main parking lot opposite the main parking lot. The side that faces the main parking lot is completely done with the exception of the entryway. Closest to the road. He's kind of saving the doorways for last. But I would say he looked like he was a good. Half to two thirds done on the side that he was working on. And as long as the weather continues to cooperate, it's going to be fine. I'm hoping that by the time we open the doors for the election on the third, it will be complete. Sweet. Okay. Not yet. Okay. Do we have any IT update? Nothing to report for IT. Okay. Um, well. Alfred. I wanted to talk about your and the road crews evaluation of. UBM roads report. Toby had sent us something which didn't make a lot of sense to me. And I had a bunch of questions that he didn't answer. Um, What did you and the crew. Come up with from that report? Uh, well, I, I, they certainly did a lot of work. Uh, and I think it's, you know, some of it is useful. Um, but some of it, I. It is not possible to do. I mean, uh, like they're having a start our roots at the callous elementary school. Is impossible. Cause this, the trucks need to have a full load of sand when they start. And there's no facility there for the trucks to be in out of the cold. Um, there's no sand pile there. We've only got one bucket loader. Um, so I mean, it certainly makes sense to try to cut down on the doubling up. But if you look at our map that they put in there. Our town garages at the corner of our town. Yeah. So, and those trucks need to need to be loaded while they're plowing. So generally we don't, we don't start sanding until we're on our way back. So we plow for plowing, we plow out, and then we sand plow and sand back the other side. So there, when they talked about this dead, what was the term dead? Dead heading. Dead heading. I know cutting, cutting the flowers off at the end of the season. I know. Um, so you plow out. And then you sand coming back. So there isn't any dead heading. Is that what you're saying? Well, I'm not saying there's no dead heading. There is some, but it can't be eliminated completely. You know, um, there are a lot of dead end roads that just go out and we turn around and come back. Uh, but there's also roads that we travel several times. Like Moscow Woods, for example, we come down root 14. Moscow Woods is the closest route to get to the rest of our town. Um, so there's a lot of, there's a lot of dead heading there because they're, you know, we're traveling the same, the same road. Every truck goes over that road except for, except for the one that does lighten and ridge road. And that is able to run down root 14 and go up and up to lighten and ridge. Um, you know, so there, there is definitely a lot of, a lot of roads that we travel several times, but there's no way around that given the location of our garage. So for instance, when you do North Calis, that area, do you come in from Moscow Woods or you come in from over on there on Woodbury? Uh, Moscow Woods usually. That is usually the second portion of that route. So, uh, he usually does Duger brook, Worcester road, Robinson cemetery, all of that with the first load. And then he'll go out and do, uh, North Calis road, which is will foster Hill. And number 10 pond. That's all the second part of that route because there's no buses on it. So that's why we consider that to be the second route. So North Calis has bus, right? Right. And he, and normally he'll do when he leaves the shop, he goes up over Moscow Woods. He takes a right onto Raul road or upper road, excuse me, upper road. And then he'll do down North Calis road. Um, actually before he does that, he goes up to the fishing access and just, just to keep the fishing access clean because the bus turns and stops there. And then he goes down and catches, uh, Duger brook road. So North Calis is done. You know, that's part of the first portion of the route. So did you look at the plow route stuff? I mean, I had to get out my magnifying glass. Well, yeah, I asked, I asked, um, I asked Judy if she could blow that map up because we, none of us could see it. We just couldn't see it. Yeah. Um, so it's blown up and it's easier to see. And yes, I've studied it. I'm looking at it. Um, and I don't see a whole lot of changes to it. Yeah. But it's the, the biggest thing is that we, there's just so many roads. There's 20 miles of road per route. And that's what takes us long, so long. And we have to divide that up by the bus routes. And the bus route changes every year. It's something different every year, depending on where kids are coming to school and not coming to school and they. Oh, that's true. Get out of school. And so that's a, that's a change every year. Yeah. And so that's why we are first portion of the route always changes as we have to cater to the buses to get them around at a certain time of day. Yeah. Alfred did, did, um, Reading the report or looking at the maps. I would understand if you said. There's. You know, there's, I'll. I'll be too worried. Just, there's, there's nothing particular useful how, but I'm wondering whether it inspires you. To some, to some kind of creative thing that's not in there. That, that or the report or the conversations with the. The guy from, I never remember where he was from, but from our conversations, a couple. Yes, two years ago. I was talking about Todd Eaton. He's, he showed a sheet. Todd Eaton and Stu Johnson Sharon. Do you remember we're at. I know Todd and Stu were at most of our. Your four public meetings. And I remember specifically Todd saying. That the rodeos were too long. Exactly. Yeah. I'm never going to remember his name for guy. Um, but yes. You know, and, and there are. Yeah. Yeah. They're too long. That's a, that's very true. I mean, it's six hours to get around. Yeah. Well, I thought it was eight. No, it's six. Okay. Six and six is too long. Six is too long. Right. Okay. Yeah. He suggested it shouldn't be longer than like around four hours. Yeah. And I think most towns around our, our, that is there. That's what they are. It was four hours. That's what they shoot for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. No, go ahead. I said, I don't, I'm, I don't know how we can shorten that up without adding another truck. Yeah. So can you, can you answer Sharon's question? I think she. Said, you know, she proposed something that I thought was really valuable. By me being inspired to make changes. You know, I would, I would love to have one of the big trucks do light and enrage road. But then you've got the fact that the truck is driving down the black top down route 14. To get to, to get to light and enrage. And those big trucks have tire chains on them. And it, you know, it takes, first of all, it takes a lot longer. And it's wearing the, wearing the chains. So that's why the little truck is four wheel drive. It goes down 14, a lot faster. And it takes care of light and enrage. So that's one thing that I have definitely thought of that, you know, would certainly make it more feasible and easier. For me to take care of the black tops. If I'm not running back to, back to light and enrage. I mean, light and enrage is a very heavily. Traffic road with the school there. So yes, I'm constantly thinking about ways of, of making it easier and faster. I mean. But like I said, the challenges is that our town garage is at the very, the very, the very corner of the town. Yeah. It's been there for a long time. Yes, it has. But also the demand is way up too. You know what I mean? When I first started for the town. It wasn't like this. We didn't, you know what I mean? People didn't complain about whether there was an inch of snow. A lot of times they waited until the snow was done. And then they went and plowed. We can't do that now. We just, we cannot do that now. So everything has changed. Everything has changed. And I'm, I'm certainly looking in the ways to, to change our abilities, but. I think we need another truck. I really think we need another truck. And sometimes last, not so much last year, but the year before. I mean, I think we need another truck. I really think we need another truck. And sometimes last, not so much last year, but the year before we did have a fifth truck on, because we were using Ed and that helped out a lot. Because I would put that third truck or that. Fifth truck onto. Jack Hill. Peek and Brooke. All of North callous. Valentine road. And it's not like that. It's not like that. That cut it down. That certainly cut it way down. But we can't, we can't run. Five trucks every day. Because it's not, first of all, not in the budget. And it's, we don't always have that fifth truck. Meaning that one of the other trucks has broke down or something. Right. Right. Well, usually when I used him, it was a, it was a big storm or it was, you know, it was something that honored having the fifth person in. But I can't, you know, without, but changing the budget and changing plans. I can't, I can't have a fifth guy for every storm. But Edward paying him just an hourly. Flat hourly rate without any benefits and stuff. So if he's plowing, isn't that going to cut down on the amount of overtime the other guys get, which would offset the budget. Yes. It definitely does. Because you're paying him regular time or regular wage. And I got to keep him under 32 hours. Right. So, so yes, that certainly cuts down because the roots get done faster. And, you know, we don't have to be out there as long. So why are you saying you can't do that now? Is he not available? He is available, but I just can't, I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. Unless, unless you direct me to use him more often during the winter and have that fifth guy. Cause typically I call, I call myself and three other people are out there. Yeah. Unless it's a, unless it's a large snow event. And that's it. There's four trucks rolling. There were some times that we used the fifth truck and it very much helped. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Sharing had a question. Oh, okay. I'm choking on my water. You said. That we used to have the fifth guy. And then you said you were waiting for the select board to authorize it. And is there something that we missed. In the past year or two, where we. Have a conversation with you. You want to change. What's changed if you feel like that's not authorized. I feel like it's not authorized. It's, I mean, I use, you know, we've got a four man crew. And the spare guy, Ed, which is our spare guy. Is there for if somebody's out sick. I guess I don't remember us having a conversation. To Sharon's point, we never said anything about Ed. The only thing we've ever said is. What can we do to keep down over time? Right. I'm not saying you told me not to, I'm just saying the point of view. I'm just saying the point of view. I'm just saying the point of view. The only thing we're going to call is there's four guys on, on a given day. Right. But you use them in the summertime for. Reading the roads and stuff. And we don't say anything. So what, what's different about plowing. In the winter and summertime stuff. There is nothing different about it. It's just, if you want me to have five guys, I'll use, I'll use him. I just, I'm trying to follow the basis of. Of the crew size. I mean, I, when we hired Ed, we hired Ed as a spare. So a spare means it's somebody to fill in when somebody is sick. Or when I'm short one guy. And so that's what I've been trying to follow. But like I said, I'm not saying you guys have said anything against it. I'm not saying that at all. I'm just trying to follow the, the normal protocols that we've always used. And it's always been a four man crew. But how did, how do you square? I'm just, I'm feeling. I'm not under, it's feeling like a disconnect to me because there's something I don't understand. Between you got a four man queue and you're trying to. Crew. And you're trying to follow that protocol. And we used to be able to blah, blah, blah. So what, so how did you, where's, where's that? What's the link between. You used to be able to send. And I'm just missing that link. Right. And so my, and so am I because we use, you do use Ed in the summertime as a, as a fifth person to help with grading and stuff. I know you said that was really helpful because you could grade more. So what helped me understand what's the difference. Well, what's different is now we have a mower. That you guys, you want me to put a guy onto. And it ends up taking all summer long. So that takes one guy from the regular crew. And where we never had a mower before we've never, you know, we've always hired that done. This year we've had a mower. So I've, I've had to put, I've used Ed a little bit more. For that. And I just, there's, there's, I'm not saying you guys have told me anything different. It's just, I'm trying to follow the protocol. If I am told to use Ed more and more, I'll be happy to use them. I don't think there's any, I don't know what protocol you're talking about. We have a four man crew. Right. I know that. We have four trucks on the road and a spare in case one breaks down. That's what it's always been. Yeah. Maybe I need to go on a limb here myself and just decide to hire Ed more, more often and have a five man crew. So Alfred, the in between is, can I, John, do you mind if I finish? I think there's, I hear you saying you need to decide. Or the select board hasn't told you to. And the, and the opportunity is in between in clear communication where you say to yourself, this is how it, you know, I'm imagining it all goes down like Alfred says, you know, I feel like we need to do blah, blah, blah. And I, and you Alfred, bring us a proposal that says board. Heading into the winter. Want things to go smoother than last year. I propose that we do higher. Higher Ed for this, you know, what I don't, I can't make this up. I can't, I wish I could keep talking in a way that actually made sense. But when you don't do that, you're owning a decision that you haven't brought to us for discussion. And then you, and then you pour in, then you get stuck with us saying how come, why? And we haven't had the conversation. And I say, no, I mean, that's the hard part for you. It's like you might bring something forward and we would say no, but you wouldn't have to own that decision all by yourself. Johnny say something. Yeah, just a point of clarification. I thought we. Added money to our budget this year. Maybe we removed it in our cost cutting efforts. Did we, I thought we'd put money in the budget to cover. That's a temporary to run the mower. So we wouldn't burden the highway crew. That's my first question. Did that where did what line item did it go in? Cause. Mowing. Under mowing, I thought. And then the second budget for mowing is $10,000. That you, you kept that the same as last year because we were hiring it down and we wanted it mowed twice. So that is, there's $10,000. Right. So there you go. So there's the money to hire a temporary. We have now have a tractor. So there's $10,000. At 10 bucks an hour. Right. And I just. I have been hiring him. I have been hiring him this summer. So, so, so my other. Question slash statement is. Yeah. I had with Ed Raul last year, right around this time of the year. He said he's limited in terms of the total number of hours per year that he can work. Or he will impact his social security benefit. And so my understanding was we, we had, we're going to hire. A lot of people who have been working in the industry. And we had a lot of experience. I eat a kid. I know we had some back and forth on that Alfred. But some, maybe a farm kid. And there are still some. And for doing the mowing. So we wouldn't impact the existing road crew. And, and, and the reason I suggested that was it in very large part. So that we could save. Ed for the winner. So we didn't run out of hours. We didn't run out of hours. So he's going to hit that limit. And he's not going to work anymore. He said. Right. Well, that, that actually has changed. That has actually changed since last year. He, he has got, he has allowed more, more. The ability to work more hours. He's older. Because yeah, because he's older or they change something, some law or something. So he is able to work more. Like a lot. Like a lot. I'm not sure of the, the numbers. It's a dollar amount is what it is. Yeah, I remember. It's what he can earn. And also this summer, there was a few times that I couldn't get him because he had doctor's appointments and he had, you know, he just had. Surgery on his eyes so he could see better. And, you know, there was some days that I called him and he couldn't come in. I mean, that's. I, you know, I can't beg him to work. I can't force him to work if he's got health issues. Yeah, now we're not suggesting that. No, I know. I'm not either. I'm just saying that there's been a couple of times this summer that I couldn't get him because he had things, other things to do. And, and, you know, I have actually tried a couple of, I tried to get a couple of other people to run the mower. And they think about it. And then they changed their mind. Billy Gray was one of them. And we were really following that up and then he was like, you know, he could definitely go. He could. Have a look at the ball mull on his off time. Adam, Adam. Adam Wayne. Offered he lives in town, he wanted to, to do some mulling. And at just, he. They have full time jobs. So they, you know what I mean? They weren't all. And it just didn't materialize. I think if I feel comfortable with having Ed on and for some of these storms, then I'll have five guys, five trucks going and then we can make progress. We can get it done a lot faster. That and it will save on overtime with the rest of the crew and give everybody a much bigger break, I would hope. Right. Right. I mean, there's a lot of times in the wintertime where I would just assume not go out again and put salt on. I can call Ed. He's right there. You know what I mean? In the evening where when I've already worked eight, 10, 12 hours, I don't want to go back again. I can call Ed. And so then you're paying at regular wage and not paying me time and a half. I've driven a truck enough. I'm okay without driving a truck. You know, if I can pass that on to Ed, I'd be happy to or somebody else for that matter if we find somebody else. Go ahead. I'm just looking for your opinion on why you think it is. I mean, you said that we have an increased demand for your services during and after snowstorms that we need to plow out more and more and that it's somewhat complaint driven. I'm just curious. It is given that pretty much every car that goes by on my road is all-wheel drive. We used to have rear-wheel drive cars and people didn't complain as much as they do now with their four-wheel drive cars. What do you think that is? Well, I think it's a lot of it is people don't prepare themselves like they used to. People used to have a cow out back that they could get their gallon of milk from. Now everybody's driving to the store to get a gallon of milk or a pack of cigarettes. They're not planning themselves far enough ahead. I have to disagree with the majority of the vehicles are all-wheel drive. Yeah, there's a lot of them, but there's a lot of front-wheel drives that have 15-inch tires on them. They have no ground clearance. There's a lot of them. Half of the time, it's until January before anybody gets their winter tires on. Some of the demand and people now people's homes have two vehicles driving where 20 years ago when I started this job, there was one family car. There's a lot of things that have changed. So I mean, I'm not blaming anybody. It's just a fact of life. It's just the way it is. And the storms. Let's get into the storms. Look at the weather we have now. We go from 10 below to 30 degrees. And most of these storms are hover right around that 30-degree mark where it's the most slippery snow or ice or whatever is falling from the sky at that time. Everything is warmer now. Whereas years ago, it was nothing to have three weeks of 20 degrees, 20 below weather. We don't have that anymore. We don't. When it's cold, traction is good. When it's warm, traction is terrible. And we have become a lot warmer. So it's not just because the road crew is lazy and they're not out there on time or they're not whatever it is. Everything has changed. Okay. All good points. Yeah. They're good points. And also there's more people in Calis now. There's a lot more people in Calis. That's right. Our population is what, 1,600 now? Yep. And it's older. Our population as a percentage is increasingly aging. So anyways, back to the UVM roads report. I think this has been a really good discussion. I appreciate it. So when you can look at those maps in a form that they're actually bigger, maybe something will jump out to you that you could try. Yeah. That's, that's Denise, where my head is, is I want Alfred. I want to understand, I want to hear from you about, okay, if I've got this tool in my toolbox and this tool in my toolbox, then I'm going to, I am going to redesign the routes like this. I hear you saying, and I've heard Toby say it too, make adjustments all the time. We make adjustments all the time. But I want to hear, to me, there's some system you have. And if you're, if you're making a thoughtful change to the system, I would like to hear about it. Yeah. I'm, I'm taking this route from a six hour route guys, where maybe they're not always the same. Let's say 80% of their routes are six hour routes. And I'm taking us down this year to 50% of the routes are, are six hours and the others are going to be whatever. And I've got a plan to roll out some shorter routes next, like something that's gives us a way to track it. I feel like we're always just waiting around to hear what you have to say. And I don't have a sense of how it's systematically evolving. So if you, so to Sharon's point, so if you use Edmore, can you cut down on the amount of hours it takes to do a route? Yes. Absolutely. Okay. So if you add another truck, you add another truck, then it definitely will cut it down. But you have offered, you have a map of the routes, right? I'm staring at it right now. Yes. So can you, can you redraw it and come back and say, used to look like this. Now this is what the routes are. And a guy can do two routes, the nine hours have a lunch break in between whatever. And then we're, you know, and this is how, this is how that those two tools, knowing I can use the fifth truck, knowing I can hire a fifth guide, this is how I'm going to use those tools and this is what it will need for the town in a quantifiable way. And that if it's a, if it's a quantifiable way, then when you or us get calls from people, then we have something concrete that we can say. Exactly. And so we're not just kind of trying to say, well, you know, the guys work hard and they're 10 hour routes and blah, blah, blah. The weather is worse. Yeah. I mean, all of which is true. Weather is worse. I agree with you on that. I mean, just look at the storms we've had last week, those rainstorms. You know, I mean those that there was one that was pretty ferocious. But if we all are on the same page and we have information from you, then we can support you. And not just talking points, data. Yeah. That's what people want. Okay. Well, I can rewrite the map. Okay. Then bring it back. When? When? Yes. When are you going to come back with a new map? Well, I'll work on it. I don't want to commit to a certain time. There you go. Nope. I'm putting trucks together right now. This week I'm going to be putting trucks together. So I'm not going to have a lot of speed time. Can we say November 9th? Can we say November 9th for you to come back to us? That gives you almost a month. Yes. That's fair. Okay. All right. Katie, put that right down. Thank you. All right. Good. We made progress. I feel good that we made some progress. So, um, county road. I was looking at the. Speed limit guide book or whatever this thing is called. And Rose, you were correct. I had the wrong one, but I don't know how much has changed from. 2012 to 2016. But what I did find, which I didn't know before. Was on page eight. 16 of the 2012 version. That says, and John, I think, I hope you're still there. Um, we can send a letter. I am. Okay. We have, um, we do have some speed reports, which. CVRPC sent to us, which I. Katie posted. Um, they can do another one. And then we send a letter. To this traffic committee. To the city coordinator. State of Vermont. And it should also go to the district transportation administrator. So I would propose that we ask CVRPC. To do another traffic study. The one I think that's in the folders from 2014. Um, it sounded like from what Ashley said. They could do another. Study. If we let them know soon. And then depending on what that study comes back with, we. Ask them to go over that data with us because that data is. Makes my head explode. Um, And ask CVRPC to come to us and then talk about. Sending this letter. They talk about in the speed limit book. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. And would they set up one of those. Um, Counter things or speed. That's what they do. Yeah. But over by this guy's house, Chris Lyford on the county road. Where is that? Where is that rose on the county road? Um, Just before you get the town line. Just be. Yeah. I mean, going out of town line in Martin road. Yeah. I think part of his problem is. Um, he, I think he probably should move his driveway. I, um, he has an old driveway that was grandfathered. That's been on that property for years and years and years. And, um, you know, he just has very poor site distance. And so he said, you know, there's so many times that he's almost gotten. Smash there. And then he goes back and we asked somebody to move their driveway. Well, I think. First, we'll get the speed data. Um, and we'll see how fast people really are going. And, you know, I just think that sometimes when people are standing still and a car goes by. You, you could think, oh my God, they're going so fast. But. You know, they could be doing 45, you know. So, um, and, um, and then we'll have something quantifiable. Um, and then that, I think that that could be an option because he did say that to me when he was on the phone. Yeah. You called me a couple of weeks ago. And also in that speed limit book, it said that we can get. And we could call, we could get, um, the report from the sheriff. To say how many tickets at what speed. Um, they might have given out. And also we can ask the Vermont state police for crash reports. So I think that would give us more information to go by. Right. Right. Yeah. Because in this, um, manual, and I was reading it today too. I mean. Of course we have to listen to our constituents, but you don't want to just lower the speed limit because one person complained. Yeah. I saw that same thing, Rose. Yeah. Oh, good point. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So does that sound like a plan that we'll get CVR PC to come and do that. We can get a BSP to give us a report and get the sheriff to give us a report. And then we'll have some solid information to decide whether we want to go to this traffic committee. State of Vermont traffic committee thing. Yeah. Good idea. Okay. Very good. Are you ready to move on to other agenda items at this point? Well, just, just quickly before we do. Denise. Um, I don't know if you. Once a speed limit is set, you don't need to continually do. Perform traffic studies to maintain that speed limit. I'm guessing, right? You only need to have, you have to have the traffic studies. To maintain that speed limit. And the reason I asked that is because I really would want to understand. If we do get pushed back from AOT. What the, the colorable difference is between. The county road in East Montpelier. And Cal. Cause I mean it's got pretty much the same. Density of houses and intersections and curves and hills. I think if we get pushed back, that's going to be my first question to AOT. I've never understood that. Yeah. I agree with you, John. I've never understood why it's different in East Montpelier than it is in Calis. Calis. The county road was much less populated. I know what I first moved here in the 80s. So. There are many, many more houses. I mean, all the houses on. I mean, it's been built up. It's been built up. I mean, it's been built up. I mean, I think that just south of the intersection of bliss pond road that was Stanley Morse's. Pasture. Yeah. All that and the roses gravel pit is. That's all new stuff. And, and, and, you know, all through there. Between maple corner in there, it's really been built up. So it might have had something to do with that. Let's driveway curb cuts and all that. Yeah. And then. Like you said, if we, if we asked to have it reduced. And they say no, then we want to know why. So we have. Good information. So when we get people. Saying you need to reduce the speed limit, they're going too fast. We have solid information to fall back on. Okay. Alfred, do you have anything else for us? Nope. I don't think so. Okay. I like to say that I'm going to start putting trucks together for, for winter. It's that time of year. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard we might get some snow the end of the week in the higher elevations. Does that mean Bain Kamoli road? You are pretty high up there. Yes. But I, I. I don't expect it'll stick just yet, but. I don't get ready just in case. Yeah. Right. Better to be prepared. Right. That's correct. Okay. Well, thank you so much. All right. All right. Good night. Thank you. Yep. Have a good night. You too. Thank you, Alfred. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Hey guys. It's only 20 minutes and nine. And we don't have that much. More to do. We might actually be able to get done by nine or a little after. Because we are meeting, don't forget on Monday night. For personnel stuff. So we don't necessarily have to do anything. Personnel executive session. To make us get done at 10 or 11 o'clock tonight. So we don't have to do anything. We don't have to do anything. Unless you want to. Can I jump in and let you, your voice have a 30 second break, Denise? Yes, ma'am. Well, the rest of you guys authorized me to sign that curb cut for GAR road on behalf of the board. We did it two weeks ago. I thought you guys did that when you. We approved it, but I have to fill it out. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not authorized to sign for every sign for the board. Right. They need a motion for that. They needed to amend it. So I'm assuming by now, we've received the amended application with the correct names on it. I haven't seen it. That's a good question. I was just going to put that in as a condition. No, we approved it. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. To me, that would be, we would go ahead and sign it and then. Look for that because they wanted to have it. I can circle back on that. But if I get all the pieces. Yeah, I would be, I would be, that's fine with me. I want to make sure you put all names on it because we had that blowback problem. When chairs get blamed for everything. So. I don't know. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. And then we'll go ahead and get back to that. And then we'll have half of the select board, John, Denise Rose. Not me. Cliff. Denise Wheeler recused. Right. And that's what I did on. One of the last things that I did. And I. I printed. The page of the minutes. That authorized the signature with the motion to approve it. I attached it to the curb cut. So I would move that. I would move that. I would move that. I would move that with that page of the minutes attached to it. That's another option. Good idea. So I would move that we authorize vice chair Sharon. When fan in. To sign on behalf of. The board. Acknowledging that Denise has recused herself. On the GAR curb cut application. Once it's received. And it's. Final amended form. Acknowledging that it's approved. I'll second that. I guess I guess I'm sharing here. Yeah, you need to do a roll call. Yes. Is everyone ready to vote? Yeah. Rose. I. John. Yes. Cliff. Hi. And I'm I. I, I. All right. Thank you, Denise. Yeah, sure. Thank you for taking care of that. All right. We don't have to do appointments tonight, but I took what Rose did. Thank you, Rose, and. Put together a sheet that pretty much just tells us who, who needs to be reappointed. We do have a new person. I know his name, but I can't place where he lives. Peter. John. I know he's a good friend. And I think he's a good friend. I think he's a good friend. He's a good friend of the Dities. Has requested to be on the trails committee. And I told. Tom Blatchley that I would ask all of you. Whether we wanted to meet him the, a zoom. Before we put them on the trails committee. It's sometimes it's nice to put the name with the face. What's your pleasure? Would you like to have him. Have they met him? Yes. They have- Is it my internet that's for Denise's? I didn't get, but pieces of Denise's. Peter Lividides has asked to be on the Trails Committee. Tom Blatchley has talked to him. The Trails Committee is an agreement that they would like to have him on. Sometimes we've said we wanna meet people. So I'm asking whether we want to have him come to our meeting on the 26th to meet him and officially appoint him. And maybe we can do these other appointments at the same time. They're so good. Yeah, yeah. Tell him we're going to appoint him. That it seems like we're going to appoint him at the next meeting. And if he could be there in person just so we can say hi, thank you. Okay, I will do that. So that's all really about appointments. John, did you, you were gonna do a letter to the Solid Waste Management Board or did that other letter they sent take care of the issue that we had? I think John's frozen. He looks frozen. Oh, there you are. You weren't frozen? No, my house is plenty warm. I'm not frozen at all. Oh, okay. So this Solid Waste Management District that document that they sent around and then you were gonna write a letter. Where are we with all that? They're having their board meeting. I will still get them a letter. They already had the board meeting right on the heels of ours. So I'll get one out to you guys and draft. Oh, there was nothing on the agenda regarding our discussion with Kathleen Gent. Now, whether she brought it up under general business, I don't know. How do we check their minutes? I don't expect to see them be responsive. Quite frankly, Denise, I think I've been pretty clear in my disappointment in them. They are intentionally avoiding discussing this. As are all the districts except for the Northeast Kingdom District. I think it's very unfortunate. It's very upsetting. And, you know, frankly, as one member of this board, my opinion, I think it's a healthy thing like we did some years ago to reevaluate our membership in this district every so often. Our last time we reevaluated it, I wanna say seven or eight years ago, it resulted in major repercussions there and actually a significant reduction in staffing and a budget reconfiguration led by Bill Powell, Chair of the Budget Committee, and our dues actually went down and they became somewhat more responsive as a result. It was a major reorganization, I'll say. And it was all born with our pushing back and asking hard questions. We could, and I think we should at some point after this letter down the road, we should be taking a second look at our membership and inviting them in to explain to us, answer a number of questions, not only on this matter, but just what are we getting for our membership and the costs of our membership? There are alternatives, there's a number of towns have peeled off of the central of Montsalwes district, Cabot left, and I joined a Northeast Kingdom district, Northfields left, and there's this other valley aligned or something, I don't know the name exactly, but they've been able to reduce their costs and get equivalent or better service. So just FYI, they should be advocates for us. And if they're not willing. So should we be getting a refund somehow for them saying that they, for all this glass that supposedly got recycled and didn't? Well, that can be the first thing we could ask of, we could run a calculation and ask for a CSWD to refund the costs of all that or some portion of that all the way back as far as back as we can figure. I'm still working on those numbers to find a figure. I got a records request into the Attorney General's office who by the way, refuses to respond to my emails. They have to answer you. A&R, yeah, they're violating the law, I sent a second records request. A&R has responded, they're looking for records now. I'm trying to prepare for this hearing. So just so you know, there's a lot that should be happening. That's not happening. There's a lot more to do. But I think at some point we're gonna get to a point where we just need to check in with the district executive director, maybe an executive committee, maybe the chair of the board and certainly Bill Powell to find out what's going on just generally. What are they doing for us? What services are they providing to us as part of our membership? I like that idea, John. Yeah. Who is this Brennan person? Brenna. Is he the chair of the board? I don't know. I don't know. I couldn't decide if it was a male or a female based on the first name. Brenna? Yeah. I don't know. That's a woman. Well, it often is. First time I've ever heard Brenna. I've heard Brenna. I've heard Brenna and I've heard Brandon, but not Brenna. Brenna's a- You talk about the person who sent that, Daddy. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. He had some or she had some title after the name, but I wasn't sure what they did. I don't know. Okay. Well, you'll keep us- Might be a administrative person. So John, I'm going to just keep a short item on the agenda going forward for you to give us updates on this. Is that okay? Yes, absolutely. You will see a draft letter at some point. And while you got me on the mic, I have sent an email, follow up to Virginia Heavy Equipment today, asking for information one, what's the status of our chipper? And two, what's the, what are they going to do about that invoice we received of 900 plus dollars related to the evaluation that they directed me to have performed on the chipper before they would take it back. So they need to get back to me on that way. I expect they will. Okay, good. All right, thank you for the updates. I just thought we'd give you a little update on, Judy and Barbara have when hustling and bustling and getting everything set up for election day, which is going to be at the town hall. There's a group of three or four of us that are going to be at the town hall, socially distanced, wearing masks, starting at five o'clock to count the ballots, look for voter intent, the ones that don't necessarily go through the tabulator, the right way, those kinds of things. So we did, when we did it after the primary, it was just myself and Olivia Gay that did this job and we were done in an hour. So I'm guessing that with three or four of us, I'm thinking it'll be probably pretty heavy turnout. There's a lot of processing going on with collecting the early ballots. So every day they go and get them out of the drop box and put them in the vault and start checking names off of the database, based on the envelopes and what else. So anyway, so I just wanted to give you an update. There is a little bit of concern. I don't think we have to worry so much about it in Vermont. There is a bit of a concern that they raise, that they wonder if they will have any people there that will be trying to influence voters or being a little aggressive maybe with their behavior. I talked to Judy and suggested that she get Wilson to come for part of the day. Maybe there's a couple other people that could show up to just kind of be sitting in the background in a chair, just kind of observing, so that if anybody can be aggressive or hostile. It's gonna be a town hall? Yep. So too bad we're not at school where Chris Tuller is there. Well, he was actually one of the people we thought about asking. Chris Tuller, Dan Singleton, I was thinking. John Brabant. Yeah, John Brabant would be great. To just go ahead. Toby Talbot. Toby somehow doesn't look very... We are worried about these quote-unquote poll monitors that Trump and Bill Barr have indicated are necessary to protect our democracy. No, they're worried about the... No, they're worried more about and I wanna be careful what I'm saying because we're being recorded. These are people that might be trying to stop people from voting or be hostile if they find out who somebody is voting for or just be a little intimidating. I don't think we're gonna have a lot of that and we're not especially not in callous, but just for a comfort level, and I checked back in but didn't get an answer to see if they decided that they wanted to have some people there. So I'm just giving you an update. I think, I mean, and that can go either way politically, right? So I agree and I don't think it's a political comment. It's a highly charged election. Yes. And just for people to feel safe, to have a few extra folks around. I don't think it hurts. So I think we just wanted to give you that update, Cliff. Did you wanna add anything to that? No, I think that's a good idea. I think we've got some good names in the hat and we'll see what Judy and Barbara decide they're comfortable with. Yeah. If anything else, it means there would be somebody available to do sandwich runs. Yes, yeah, nothing else, right? Right. Okay, so that was just a little update. And then the last thing that I had was, and I just put together a quick supposal of how we might look at divvying up the workload of looking at our, I looked at the website and there's several different versions of, for instance, the personnel policy, which we don't wanna get rid of, but we could create an archive section to put ones that have been updated. Sometimes you wanna look back at the old stuff. And I think we should, from my perspective, looking at that, it would be good to put a tab for ordinances and then a tab for policies. So it's easier to find stuff because somehow, what was it a couple of weeks ago? I couldn't find the emergency management page. I wanted to look at something and I couldn't find it. I looked in the list. Anyways, long and short of that is, it was under the select board. So I asked that it have its own place on the left-hand side because I think it's an important enough document and an important enough issue that it should have its own tab on the left-hand side of the website page. So that's been done. So anyways, we don't have to do any of this tonight, but I just wanted to put something together for you to think about. And it's in the folder. I think, yes. I mean, yes. And building from that, and I imagine this is what's in your head to Denise, the way that you organize what you sent to us. And I think you even said it in, maybe in the lead-in, but we should, we've had in the past several months, circumstance where people were surprised that we had such a policy. And honestly, sometimes I've been surprised we have such a policy. And they're really helpful, right? Our policies. So keeping them current, both keeping them current, both so that they stay current and also so that we keep them in front of ourselves and the townspeople having a regular every, if we review our, if we had all of our policies, not all at once, but reviewed every three years, then there wouldn't, there would be no opportunity for the select board to have five people who don't know there's a policy. Right. You know what I'm saying? I mean- And I got your message about, for instance, Gar Road ordinance is not there. I do have an old, I do have an old book of policies before we had a website, believe it or not. That I'll go- Get those out there. Yeah. So I'll get that out and look at it and see and ask maybe Judy or Barbara to look through the book at the town office. Right. Right. No, I love this project. It makes me feel really good about getting the house cleaned up. And I just threw in names. I had, it was not a lot of rhyme or reason to it. Some of it, some of it was like with Cliff to do look at the wifi policy and to look at the website policy, those kinds of things. And like I said, there's no real rhyme or reason to it. I just kind of threw names in there. So maybe you could take a look at it between now and next meeting and we could start to have a plan to work on some of this stuff if you're game for it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's great. And then once we've looked at it and we've said yes, love it just the way it is then we'll update it as being reviewed in November, 2020, right? Yeah. So Katie, that's on the list of things to do. I will try to take a look at that book that I have and see if there's any that are missing. And I also want to think about Curtis Pond whether having the Curtis Pond stuff on this page makes sense or if it should kind of have its own tab. So you don't have to think about it. And then speaking, if we're all done with this unless anybody has any comments the link to the historic preservation ordinance doesn't work. Is there still one? Well, the 2002 one doesn't work but it should be archived anyways. Oh yeah, because there's a new one. Right, but like for instance the HPC ordinance seems like the HPC should look at it and get back to us. Not that we shouldn't look at it as well but it will be good to hear from them. The 2002 might work for me. Really? Huh? Yeah, I didn't click on it. Denise, I would like it if they could be alphabetical. Yeah, that would help. That's a good point. Because they are kind of all over the place. It's hard to, I find it hard to find what I'm looking for because there's so much there. Yeah. So if we had ordinances separate, Curtis Pond separate, policies separate, alphabetical it would help, right? Yep. Okay. And how to all, how to them all there? Right. Okay, well that's just good. I just wanted to put it on your radar and get you guys feedback on the idea. And maybe, and maybe get rid of the word callus like callus website policy. Like we know this is callus. Oh, we do? That's really, even the person out there. That's a really good idea, Cal. That's a really good idea, Rose. Yep, the 2002 thing works for me too. That is weird. Okay, so the last thing. Not weird. Do you want to approve the minutes from October 5th? Since it's a little early tonight. They're in LA. Oh yeah, those, I looked at them. There's nothing really much. No, that was last week guys. We met, we went into executive session. Yeah. We might have approved some minutes. I make a motion we approve as presented. I'll second that. Anybody else have an issue with the October 5 minutes? All right, Rose, you ready to vote? Yes. Aye. Okay, I'm an aye. Cliff? Aye. John? Yes. Karen? Yes. Okay. So one last thing, unless you're dying to go into executive session tonight, is we're meeting last, I knew we were still meeting with on the 14th at Maple Corner Community Center at 4 p.m. I'm going to order sandwiches tomorrow. I have not seen or heard anything more than what, I sent CC to all of you on and Cindy got back to us. I have not heard one single other thing on that. So I'm assuming we're still a go. Maybe you'll, maybe, I mean, you'll do this, but you are going to do it right, reach out to her and make sure we're still go. Yeah, I'm going to reach out to her tomorrow before I order the sandwiches. Good. I just want to make sure. Yep. All right. Is there anything else? So Kay, no, I think no. Okay. Would somebody like to make a motion to adjourn? So move. So move. Okay. So all those rows, aye. I'm an aye. Rose. Aye. Cliff. Aye. Don. Yes. Karen. Yes. All right. So four o'clock, Maple Corner Community Center. I will send a note to Cindy just to double confirm. All right. Thank you so much, Katie. Have a good night. Thanks. Good night, everybody. It's not that I'm already home and I didn't freeze up. I didn't freeze up once. No, and you didn't turn into a pumpkin.