 Hi everyone, welcome. Welcome to San Francisco Public Library. I'm Michelle Jeffers First of all, you may have been asked and you may see this flyer in the back of the room It's for the Arts Commission survey and I encourage you all of you lovers of art and music and literature to please take this survey Thank you Again, I want to thank everyone for making it out here today for our beautiful Sunday afternoon and forgoing I know a 49ers sport football thing today For the celebration of book Smith's new book Sunday matinee Before we start let me get begin with a land acknowledgement San Francisco Public Library acknowledges that we occupy the unceded ancestral homeland of the Romitush aloney people We recognize that we benefit from living and working on this land and as uninvited guests We affirm the Romitush aloney sovereign rights and we wish to pay our respect to their ancestors elders relatives a community Thank you Now on with our show our speakers today probably need no one introduction to this crowd here But I'll be brief. Anyway, Brooke Smith, of course is an acclaimed actor and photographer Sunday matinee gathers together her extensive photo document documentation in which she spent Years capturing the epic New York hardcore scene of the 1980s the bands that played CBGB's Sunday afternoon gigs as well as the young people who followed them and hung out in Manhattan's Lower East Side She'll be in conversation with author Laura Albert who's an internationally recognized writer for her JT Leroy books Sarah the heart is deceitful among all things and Harold's end She also spent a good deal of her adolescence in the 70s and 80s immersed in the punk and hardcore scenes Distributing records creating art interviewing musicians writing for zines and amassing a legendary collection of flyers I Want to also give a special shout-out to our friends in the back of the room our books are partners folio books of Noe Valley They'll be selling books all day today and the authors will be signing them afterwards. So please patronize them if you can After Laura and Brooks conversation we will take questions from the audience here in person and Chatted in questions on zoom if you're here in person. We are recording this talk for later So I want to make sure that you don't ask your question until there is a microphone in front of your mouth Thank you for that now Please join me and in welcoming them to the stage to the accompaniment of our own San Francisco and San Francisco public libraries Owned Penelope Houston and the Avengers American and me. Thank you That's her. Thank you so much for coming today. Yeah, thanks guys I am a little hot and bad and this is Brooke Brooke Smith. Hello everyone yeah, and Thank you again so much for that and that song that was the Avengers That was Penelope who also it she worked at the San Francisco public library And we would like to thank the San Francisco public library for their really beautiful hard work In having us both here. Yeah, thanks guys. Yeah, pretty rad So a lot of thanks a lot of thank you I Am going to open by setting the scene so we can talk about what we talk about when we're talking about the New York City hardcore scene because there was a very specific niche and This is a what years are we talking about it's 82? Yeah, like 82 83. That was the beginning. I mean I was like 13 14 So yeah, when you when you got into yeah hardcore. Yeah, I mean I I got into punk and then and then That was around 79 anyway This is hard the hard part is is not getting all fetishistic about it You know, I've seen a lot of interviews and it's like I do look there's John man I know that guy he's like, oh, what happened to the bandage. It is really really hard So if you're into that shit, I'm gonna try not to do that See her for your fucking questions, but I'll end up doing that. Okay. What I'm gonna read to you is I'll see when did I write this? That's not here. Nicole. What was the date on it? That was right there So like like the woman said, oh, I'm the clicker. Fuck me too. God All right, here it is. So as you can see New York Rockers I wrote this I'm 16 years old and It was published. I was so fucking happy I wrote a letter in to New York Rocker to set them straight about the New York City Hardcore punk scene. Okay. Now you got I I have to give myself some credit for reading this to you guys As you can see it says just accused accused Let me say it. I had no idea what the fuck that meant and it had to be explained to me dear New York Rocker There has been a lot of excitement lately about the New York hardcore scene finally getting off the ground Bands are popping out from nowhere more straight-laced clubs are chancing hardcore nights Kids are piecing together fanzines and there's even hardcore radio a half hour better than nothing There's this is all wonderful, but there are lots of signs of its souring What was the original idea anyway? Wasn't it to not to conform to Society's dictates to fight the government running our lives To get rid of the hierarchy of the rock scene to be original to relieve boredom and express feelings with loud Hard fast music. That's still my goals, right? What I see at clubs is the quote smash your face and quote attitude of punks looking for fights Isn't that pure stupidity? Putting their energies into fighting other punks when the government is so much more deserving. I See more bands supporting this type of thing then they'll complain when their sets are ruined by fights. I Want to be able to go to a club and enjoy a band Dancing until I'm sick without fear of some skin deciding the earth is better off without me Reakin has done a lot for the hardcore scene Giving us a hell of a lot more subjects to sing about sing about it fight and be original I'm sure there are punks out there who have more than a one-word vocabulary Anarchy Yeah, you can get away with a lead singer who screams about death and makes an attempt at black flag A7 will show you but isn't that boring now. I'm not saying you synthesizers I'm 16. Okay Not like bear like it was like I was maybe Anyway, some poke some poke some punks are even turning it into a cult the straight-edge skin laws of don't smoke drink or a fuck and Obviously don't have fun Okay, and the owner gets better and are these the people you'd like to spend your evenings with oh My god, the New York scene has plenty of bands Unfortunately, oh wait, this is great. The New York scene has plenty of bands Unfortunately only if you stand out the nihilistics are great if only because they're sincere in their pessimism The newest band around that's getting there is killer instinct This is by no means due to their lead singer Fortunately the band drowns her out. I Didn't care about getting my ass kicked New York is also home to even worse bad brains the undead and the misfits the band that most prominently stands out with high-powered energy and great songs is crowd Fast fast side guy from the lead this lead singer from crowd. He told me a joke He said what do you call a bull master baiting? I Don't know. What do you call a bull master baiting beef stroganoff? I still fucking remember a dog from crowd Our neighbor scene of Washington, DC can claim a number of good bands Minor threat with its hard fast fast sound is pulling out ahead of the lot Word association with California brings to mind Mohawk skins black flags surfing and bodybuilding true But that's changing more bands are thinking for themselves instead of trying to copy the circle jerks dead Kennedys and TSOL Bad religion is a great example. They're different the lyrics talk about what's going on The music is wonderful and they're full of energy social unrest and wasted youth are also fast and fun I'm okay. This is this is 16 year what? I'm 16 16 year old Laura's gonna tell you here. Okay, 16 year old Laura wants to tell you I'm basically optimistic about hardcore punk. I hope that punks will remember what it was originally about Do you remember? We're gonna find out I okay and now my recommendations I recommend you be original Direct your anger at the things that should be focused on the Republicans EG the government and have fun Laura Albert Brooklyn, New York July 1982 I Don't know. I don't know if they took my advice. It sounds like you were ahead of your time Let's play here, okay, so Let's see what we got Okay this is I Wanted we want to talk about the the one thing about the scene was the D. I DIY DIY do it yourself of it all. Yeah, and these are badges Okay, take a look. Well first I Did you make all of these? I did in a mental hospital You'd get bad isn't I had a bad making machine and copy flyers and this is this is what I did in occupational therapy and This was 17 year old Laura and This is the stuff you'd walk around there We'd sell them at CBG bees and look at that one blue by day white by night. That's Millions of dead cops So imagine you'd wear that and it didn't take much and you'd get canal genes to do dyes Do you know the canal genes? I mean I we didn't make pins like that. No covered in whiteout This is this is just really setting the scene before we get into this is like the you didn't think about licensing agreements these are my artwork again for Mental institution these are wristbands and sold at CBG bees These are Brooks flyers, why don't you take us through? Oh, yeah This one's a little out of focus, but yeah, these are just I just put a bunch of flyers together to show Yeah, so the scene as you said Now now let's talk about the New York City. I like that one the Murphy's Law one on the left that oh My god, I didn't even catch that The wild thing tattoo inside the lips there Wow And they're the cop at the and these were just placed, you know for everyone to see Including yeah, a lot of girl bands I have flyers for here Which there weren't that many Really Bring me it said. Oh, that was my one of mine there. You made that no go back or whatever back forward. I don't know forward Back no keep going keep going wait forward. Yeah, keep going More there on the far left which well, I mean, I guess it all You know psychos ultraviolets. That's a photo of mine. Oh, and there's underdog. Oh god. It's hard. Okay. We're gonna Okay, I get into some questions. We're not gonna be nostalgic remember. Yeah, well, let's get into your into your Where that's Brock How old are you there? Tell us about that picture. I don't know. I don't know my 15 16 Something like that. We had a crimper It's natural, I think that should come back Do people crimp anymore? No, it's probably not good for your hair. I Once died my hair so many times and my mom said if you keep dying your hair, it's gonna fall out and it did and So then I had to shave it because she couldn't be right My mom told me if you keep doing that, it's gonna stay that way Like you could actually train your hair to do just get a collar. That's especially when dying never mind. Okay So Brooke. Yes. No that we're here. Let's let's get into our questions. Okay, so I Mean the thing is when I when I look at those pictures and knowing what I know I used to hey I I talked to I Knew there were pay phones so that we had pay phones back then and we had the phone numbers Outside a seven and at key places and when you would call people would be hanging out and someone would answer and it was a way to become friends with people and There wasn't it was very easy to access people and When I look at those pictures, I see and acted what they were telling me about which was the trauma the absolute horror of living at home and Having been physically and sexually abused and having no way to talk about that and Now so many of our peers who are Some of them still performing are just starting so you're finding people who are in their fifties older Starting to talk about that. What was your sense of that at the time? It's yeah, we never talked about it We didn't talk about it. I Was just texting the other day with the guy that I used to date back then and and I asked him because I know He was sexually abused and I said did we talk about it back then because how did I know about you? But it wasn't until later 20s maybe I guess there was no one talked about it back then did they I mean not in my experience Well, you have to remember in the DSM PTSD as related to a non-combat didn't enter in to the DSM, which is the medical diagnostic Book, I'm gonna fuck the sub but you basically get the idea I was in foster care when it just started when they just started thinking that a non-combat and could suffer from PTSD and there really wasn't the language. There was a few after-school specials But it was it was just not there and there was the idea that The The family was still well well you had Reagan talking about the family and the importance of family and Anita Bryant and So but yet I would say that our common denominator I think it's really interesting that we all put ourselves in dangerous physical intimate Experiences, you know, but the difference being that we put ourselves there, you know, and it was kind of like And we all knew each other so we could learn to trust each other, you know, we could learn to trust Which was not something we knew about So I don't know. I've just been thinking about that lately What's interesting is if the lyrics if you look back and read them. It's kind of Available in a very kind of shadowy Oblique way You can take it as metaphor metaphor the feeling of being unsafe attacked and But at the time it's like like telling a deeper truth, you know, it's almost like we both worked with David Milch from Deadwood and my PD blue and one of his He would talk about a lie agreed upon Do you want to explain like what I don't know if I can explain that you should try to explain Fuck you then. Okay A lie to agree upon it's like where a lie that it's a silence like That we we're hard. We're strong. We're bad asses And the lie agreed upon is that we're really terrified and with no place is safe for us that we're not okay Yeah, I mean I was 220 pounds. I was like do not come near me. Don't come near me. Yeah, and okay So that that's a whole other that's a whole other Issue because you and I both shared that it's funny Hillary Mantell talked about that there are no fat saints and I know I've said like there were no fat ponks and there was for a female. It was very much like It was like fascist pig and the idea of being an overweight girl I remember there were some big guys But to be a girl that it was like they had recreated or we recreated the structure and what was allowed How do you feel? Let's get back to your camera and then we'll jump back to the the issues of our bodies You started taking these pictures you immersed yourself in the scene. How did that happen? Well, I wanted to be a performer, but I was too scared and I was too, you know Self-conscious to you know, I just didn't want anybody to look at me. So it's not a great quality for a performer And the scene there was no separation between the bands and the audience. So in a way it was like You know helping me get there, you know Wait, what was your question? The how you got in there. So I mean you you had a camera right away. Yeah, and it was the only class I liked in high school photography. So And it was my way of getting right up into the center of the action, but still being hidden so, yeah So, I mean that's That's interesting in the sense that Your But we'll talk about how you got into that that scene right away like how you because it's so intimidating I mean, everyone would be hanging out outside And we've got to show you the and PS we didn't know each other back then, you know, I Lived in Rockland County. I had to take the bus in in the beginning and then I had my parents old green station wagon How did you process going back and forth between like school because you you you stayed in school? Yeah, and I don't know how I graduated either But yeah, I don't know. I don't know how I just wanted to be in the city I just wanted to be in the city So the day that I graduated high school I moved in and by then I was already, you know I'd gone to a million matinees and I knew everybody and you know, so I just had to get there I couldn't be back in my house or in my hometown, you know I'm always struck by and it's not just me in this scene and anything Like when you see a photograph of somebody there's a photo of me in the end of this batch of photos Where you just go like how did you walk down the street and no one stopped you and said like are you okay? I mean genuinely they would get frightened, but that's kind of what we were after. Yeah, there was this definite feeling of of wanting a reaction And wanting to declare your independence and that it was calling out the structures that were supposed to protect us The institutions that had failed us and saying fuck you. We know you're full of shit You did not protect us and we reject all of you and we're going to put it in your face I mean all of us will be cancelled because There was such a rebellion against we had felt we felt so deeply betrayed because again The physical violence That people survived the sexual violence the emotional violence was so severe and there really wasn't there It was rare for people to get help and what was offered was so fucked up That it was just a complete Life was better on the street and so many of us were on the street and living on the street and We should get to some of the So this was this is thomkin square park, right? Yeah, so this was the gathering This was kind of like the gauntlet and everything. What's so funny is the person I don't remember his name in the middle But the guy in the blue shirt sitting there He was homeless a guy named gary and I remember him so well. We would have bonfires You know those old garbage cans You know at night in the park and listen to them talk And they a lot of those people who back then we called them bums remember instead of They would talk about how they had been, you know, they'd served in the army or whatever and now here they were, you know So anyway, I just think it's interesting. I remember gary so well on the left there Yeah, it's tompkins. Yep So what what what's different about the new york city hardcore scene as opposed to The broader punk scene um I mean there were a lot of like interscene wars and what's interesting was the the drug the drug and alcohol use and I mean you had DC and boston more accepted went along with kind of straight edge and But the new york hardcore scene was very very specific and it was quite it was quite it was a mix It was quite a mix of all kinds of different backgrounds But yet it very much had that kind of um, I guess you would you would prime it like A lot of uh qanon type people you would say today extremist. Yeah Yeah, right even though they were all from backgrounds that would be the first to be Attacked What but what are your thoughts of why the new york scene like angel dust was like a rock was it Like you went out and sought out angel dust. I didn't I mean I embraced I ended up embracing Straight edge. Yeah, I went the other way What so what I mean? We were you know kids and we were messed up and we just took a lot of drugs and ran around town I lost all that weight and people would say how'd you do it? And I was like, I'm a vegetarian I forgot I was taking speed every single day for like a year. So, you know, yeah Just clueless, you know, and there were people who tried to find a Help a spiritual help and the best was harry krishna But skinhead style. So you would have I remember there was harley And and john from the chromags. Yeah And but they brought us free food. There was free food in the park So they would have a circle during harry krishna krishna and they would start slam dancing It would turn into a skank. Was that anywhere else? That wasn't just new york, right? That was new york That was definitely because for me, I remember we just had to be the hardest because we were new york We had to be the toughest There were always fights with Boston, you know, those bands would come into town the fu social ssd control And and and there were battles. I mean it was and and that's how the trauma expressed itself That's the rage that came out and the sweetest guys sweetest guys when you would talk to them and Really like gentlemen and also because the hood itself was pretty wild and I always felt safer if I was with john and harley, you know I mean, you know, I always felt safer to be with those guys They would fight and this was this was alphabet city when most of it was just burnt down. There were a ton of squads a ton of abandoned Buildings there weren't there were there was some outreach, but it wasn't like it wasn't now and there wasn't a lot of available care for kids and When so you talk about not feeling safe in your body and you've talked about some of why that was It it strikes me that having that camera Offered you this protection right away like it was a way to be there Being both The focus isn't on you and I mean, it's almost like an instrument too because I could also feel like oh i'm doing this for the band I have a reason a purpose to be here like like being an actor you found Wait, how is that like being an actor? Well, well, it's like a kind of a transmigration of spirit in a sense That's from our our uh our pal milch. Yeah. Yeah, I guess it is. Yeah, how would you decide whether you were doing black and white or color? Oh my god, um, I just remember it was low light and fast action and everything was blurry So I kept trying to get higher. Is it asa honey? Thank you, honey So I remember going up even to a thousand or whatever, but um, Usually it was color. Wasn't it? I took mostly color. I think There's a lot of black and white I mean, would you just I just mixed it up and the black and whites I could develop myself at school So that's interesting because the black and white Okay, we'll get to the baby stuff But what's interesting about I mean you're because you're black and whites are really to me um capture The emotion without the distraction of the the color of what what we were like without the peacock and the the that uh The transcendental rage Comes through without the um, I mean the I don't know. It's just very interesting. So I just wondered Was that the difference was just whether it was available for school or taking? Yeah, I don't remember making any choices there um I was just thinking this might not be related. I don't know, but I was thinking how with the book younger people seem to be responding to Like they can recognize that The people in the pictures are living authentic lives. They're not performing them for social media You know they're and so and I feel like they really and maybe it's after covid or I don't know what it is but I think they are Thirsting for connection, you know Yeah, and we talked about how There are these scenes going on and we don't know about them because in a process of regimes in china and iran and other places where if you post anything you risk annihilation and When you see these photos of shows no one is there worrying about People documenting it. I mean it was it was an anomaly to have someone With a camera and I remember being so hungry to see The documentation to catch a video to catch any of this and it was all just about the pure thrust of What was going on and and It what's interesting is the role of women. Let's discuss that in the scene again, I I feel like in the in the absence of Chain in the absence of knowing any different you do that you recreate the same kind of What you know patterns, it's very hard to change And it seems in the scene the hierarchies and the rules seem to be replicated In many ways with the outer world like Male dominated correct Yeah, yeah, and yet there were those bands there were I mean if I had been courageous enough, I would have done it You know so but but it was I mean I didn't I didn't hear those bands played on the radio. They weren't given the recording I mean, I mean they weren't To me there were gamekeepers and there were girl gatekeepers and Girls could be the bass player maybe I played bass It was easier. I thought You could be a bass player because yeah, there's all those strings on the guitar Bass player, I got a bass too offender black and white precision But it was fucking hard because that was what was allowed a bass player You can take pictures take pictures You can't you could be do a fanzine you could do Journalism which a lot of people started their career that way But you look at those pictures of the shows Or you could also have a baby And a lot of people who what are who are we looking at? This is Madonna not that Madonna obviously And her son amen. Yeah, they were I actually was in a band with her at one point Not that we played out, but Yeah, that's them And yep, these are my friends at that baby shower. The flyer was up there before Yeah And this is mental I developed that one say no, it's not mental abuse. It's um ultra violence I think they were opening for mental abuse Yeah, that's Harley Tell you a Harley story Harley how many people are familiar with Harley Flanagan and chromax or So uh Harley was in Harley was 13 12 years old when he was in this band called the stimulators And he was Hanging out. It was a very early punk band. This is pre new york city hardcore. This was like punk new york max's and he was hanging out with like Randy Warhol and they went to ireland and he came back and I'm trying to remember what year this was. It was probably 79 80 And he came back and he was a british brit style skinhead and I ran into him And and he had the ox. He had he had uh doc martins and the shaved head which this was not the style The suspenders all of it the braces and he was like This is what it's all about This is what it's all about and I remember thinking you are crazy. This will never catch it and he was skateboarding and And it's and he he was right. I mean it did it was embraced. It was this kind of Street fighter style but it morphed into like the new york city version which was sweatpants because nobody could afford That outfit, but there was very strict structure Of what you listened to what you wore and what you What you how you conformed what the uniform was all of that some girls could kind of there was more leeway For that yeah, I feel like that happened after a while right like if we felt like freaks in our hometown And we look different than everybody there then all of a sudden we're here and we're all starting to conform To you know this look how did you manage that like where did you change your look when you went home? You asked me to think about what it felt like in my body Back then and I just remember I didn't look below here Well, if I looked in a mirror, I just did not look below there and I often just wore, you know, I had good legs So I would just wear, you know, whatever just a big thing covering all that What what did your parents say? They were busy My dad did have a good line when I shaved my head. He said, uh, I mean it's gonna sound horrible now, but it is funny Um, well if you're gonna act like an asshole, you might as well look like one That's fucked up, bro. No, but it's a pretty good line. I mean, you know, I have kids I get that All right, I tell you gotta tell the licked story The licked story Oh unliked cubs. Oh, but that's that's acting Okay, okay fine. I was just saying last night that um every time I Play four dogs in a bone and there was some character explaining like that a mama bear had seven baby bears And she was just gave birth to them and she was licking them clean licking them clean And then she died before she got to the last bear and that bear went right into show business Because i'm always looking at around for the unliked cubs, you know, whether they're behind the camera and front You always in front of the camera always How many people here are unliked cubs, I'm not gonna raise their hands Fucking cowards Or healthy But well, well, that's the thing. I mean for me It was I couldn't show up to clubs. It took a really long time to be able to feel Safe to show up um I felt like if I didn't have the uniform if I wasn't thin enough I Would not show up because nothing was worse than being a fat girl I didn't feel that way towards other people, but I couldn't imagine anyone Looking at me and saying I was enough and I was okay that I that I could belong to what I really wanted to belong to So it's pretty amazing that you had that camera To give you that permission To enter into that other world. I mean that and to me is what Acting kind of is it gives you permission to let go of yourself and be someone else And just give yourself over to something else and not think about your body Lose it. Yeah. Yeah did other kids and you're and one thing I remember feeling so in love With the identity of punk that it gave me the superpower that I knew I was right And sorry I said that with kind of an uptick kind of a um I knew I was right and I knew that the girls that were into durand durand were stupid and That if they teased me that just gave me fuel that It gave me this protective energized bubble that I really didn't care Did did that did you feel like that? Yeah, but you know there's a I mean There's someone in the book named Lazar and I she just scared the hell out of me And so she had I had to be friends with her because otherwise You know the it was that or yeah, and I just remember being with her and All of a sudden being in a fight because you had to you know take her back or whatever You were part of her group and she would make these poor girls from new jersey and connecticut And not far from where I was from Take off their boots and go home in their socks And she'd give them away. I'm not sure wait. What were you saying just that kind of Yeah, that's it that Well, we were talking about the people in That weren't in the scene and that once you were accepted and in there how Yeah Yeah, yeah, but it's getting past those gatekeepers on there were like for me Um should have just had a camera Yeah, I know fuck or a station wagon because then you can drive the bands around You have to have a purpose I mean I did I was like I talked to them At on the phone I would call they would call me after and tell me about the battles and what they would What they were doing And they would tell me about what was really going on at home and How many of us were getting locked up? I mean you have to remember that I don't know if you guys know about uh Quincy jones Quincy no Quincy jones quincy. What was it md? It was Uh, who what was the actor's name? Quincy, I mean What what was the actor's name? Jack Klugman The tv show is the first one of the first times that punk was portrayed And it's a hardcore show and someone is it will punch out and somebody's killed with a fucking ice pick It's you got to watch it on youtube. It is the most hilarious thing. They have a a donna A donna donna gu type scenario. Yeah, we all went on donna here It was like you have clugman at the end kind of going like This is terrible. This leads to you know kids This leads to death mayhem and murder. You know, you got to Lock up your kids before this happens and it was terrible because people listened to it and they did lock up their kids I just rewatched that movie time square Did anyone do you guys remember that it was 1980? It's it's kind of great. It held up But they meet because their parents locked them up the rich kid and the poor kid and then they break out together But it was a thing. I remember you reminded me of it. Yeah, yeah people had really good insurance. Where are we on time? Okay, and There was really good insurance and hospitals Would take kids why it was enough to say, you know, they're they've got a mohawk and they're not going to school and they're Why would anybody Sing the shit listen to the shit and it's funny because I thought it was the most beautiful music ever to me It was like because it was honest Well, but also I appreciated the music. I appreciated the the harmonies. I appreciated that the the melodies and It it didn't feel Oh, wow, look at that. That's Harley Is that not trauma? He's just starting to talk about it now And he is a lot actually he's there's a movie coming out and it's all about Because after after it all he ended up on the street, right? And um, it was as bad as it could get. Um, a lot of surgeries And he now Runs a dojo, right? No, he's a it's what is it? Um, not a dojo, but it's not taekwondo. It's the other one No There you go jujitsu. Thank you. Oh god. Um, and see again, isn't that like physical and intimate and dangerous? Yeah Okay, we're gonna talk about Alexa. Look at that Look at her eyes. You know that she's what I wanted to look like I think we all did She was so great. She's still around. That's Alexa my roommate. I we just all hung out in new york and same eyes and so so But see and she came from a totally crazy family and yet she was out there dancing with all the guys She was and she was really sexual and really and I just thought oh my god. She's so free look at her But I guess there's a difference between free and throwing yourself in front of a train Uh, I think there's not being licked and then being just kicked Yeah Now this this is interesting to me because you're you're gonna see A lot what what struck me is when I looked at the galley of Brooks book was there a lot of girls that start showing up with babies. That's another way Girls were allowed to participate Well, she was also the lead singer of nausea And she's got a baby. Yep. She does because it's like that was not a guy could dream of Same, I mean there was the idea that maybe Some bands would break through they were touring. They were starting to make money and a girl was uh At the end of the day What's your power? is Having a baby you got a lot of attention for showing up with a little punk doing the next generation and There is jimmy in the front there Uh in his famous Three stooge's shorts and a germ shirt that that I made those mental hospital like Okay, we'll we'll get to this but I want to go back to the baby thing because let me skip ahead to find where we're gonna All right, they're baby Where let me get baby Oh, there baby Alexa, okay This this is really important for me to talk about Because you see this going on where when you have no family When you feel you have no family when you feel you have no place to call home A lot of times Even though your economic situation is fucked You feel let me bring another let me make a baby. Let me bring a child that things will be I will lift this baby I will create a better world and also it's the attention that you're gonna get And especially now without the access to abortion in many places This is intense for me because this is Alexa who was out there Out there in the pit in the middle doing fearless And she makes the decision Because you talked to her about this about the wisdom of it To to bring a baby into there's no place to live and and have another punk in the scene and I I I came very very close to this I um Had a skinhead gang My partner was a a skinhead. It was like a A kind of a scab skinhead gang gang um uptown west side skins And I was also in foster care And this was my idea to this was my camera I would be able to have this baby in front of me like you wore your camera And it wouldn't matter that I was Fat I told people that I wasn't fat. I was pregnant And then I worked to get pregnant I wasn't even pregnant yet and I Wanted nothing more than to have a little punk baby. I was looking for a baby doc martins We would fight over whether the baby would listen to metallica or not because he liked metallica and I didn't Is your friend here? So, uh You couldn't find baby docks. We had little braces And I was in foster care. I was in a group home And I really thought that this would be I imagine nothing more than being here at cbgb's and having this family and after some intensive Intense near violence. I realized that was not the path that I was meant to go down and I'm very grateful that I decided not to do that um After that for me the scene cut the the need to participate the need for like feeling that this was everything That this was life that this was the only way to express any it kind of evaporated And you had something at what point for you? I mean, sorry to be such a bummer, but um again more trauma my, uh, brother died when I was 18 just in a surfing accident And it was very uh, you know unexpected and I just remember Not long after just thinking. Oh, I I need to grow up now and like you know This it was it just felt done like you said Yeah What do you I mean, it's interesting that for both of us it was this kind of Lost and this world that was all encompassing It just it's kind of like watching water go down a drain. It was like all of a sudden You know that idea of the matrix of it just kind of seeing past something This it just kind of fell away And And it's interesting in the sense for some people it never did, you know that there's still very much In it and I envy that in a way. I mean It's it's different. It's a different reality But what do you think what are your thoughts of of why? Why it fell away for me. Yeah I mean It just my brother was a very positive light person and I was not And actually when I think of myself I don't really remember my I think it's two people me before he died and me after And I just thought I should try to be more like him, you know I just felt lucky to be alive and You know, I needed to do something with my life So that was it and what was the thing that acting Yeah, I just I went to the American Academy of Dramatic Arts and You know started working as an actor. Yeah, and then I went into the other pit And you know silence of the lamps It's funny because you're good at getting out of the hole. I'm good at getting into holes But I mean in a way you kind of went to the most terrifying Place it it and sort of it remind I went to I remember thinking what's the most scary thing I could do and in like In the late 80s I I went to piercing school because that seemed like You know something that I wouldn't piercing school. Yeah, I went to Fikir's piercing school. Wow I I have a certificate that I'm a piercer. I pierced tongue to get that updated Probably but I haven't Yeah, I pierced a tongue It's like going through liver but But the thing is it's like you you did that to me was like what is the most Unlike me type of thing a scary thing And you did a very scary thing. I mean you grew up. Can you talk? Quickly about aren't we over we're like babbling away over here. No What what time are we at? No, we have a little bit before. Yes, we are what what tell you what tell you what Yeah, what do you want me to tell you? Oh, wow. I'm getting there, huh brook I like this Well Your Your parents your mother But what was her reaction when you left the scene? Was she aware of that that you Like left the hardcore scene and then you went into she just saw that I was you know starting to go to school and trying to Yeah, did you like that? Yeah, I think she did Yeah, I mean it's kind of like you were forged in the pit and after surviving this I mean We both know how fucked up the acting world is and the rejection and it seems like um Did did it help? Steal you for what you were gonna face Gosh, I don't know I don't know I think it was more that thing like I said of the the separation and I just felt like I was getting closer to being On the stage, you know So putting aside the camera. Yeah Yeah Taking pictures now is weird Because if I go to a show now, you know, it's like all phones in the audience and I just think what a bummer You know I just want I force myself to not take pictures I'm like just be in the moment You know I mean why is it so hard Well, yeah, I mean it was a very it's such a different absolutely net now it's about curating a self and being showing that you're a part of something as opposed to a way to Transport a permission to join something right to be in something that nobody is documenting and nobody was offering a hand in but you had the Homing device like recognizes like And if you don't have the outfit or feel like how we felt not okay in our bodies our bodies If you wore the outfit someone would spot you like I would see a skinhead and be like Okay, I don't look like you but I am like you a punk. So if I couldn't because of my body size wear that clothes um But you recognize that other being it was the way you found your family and Now it's it's you You just post it and it's I post it. Therefore. I am You you control that it's not you don't need to get past any you can create it. You can pretend you're part of something I mean and It's funny because for a long time it took forever to make this book obviously um And for a long time I didn't feel like I could because it's not me You know what I mean like I felt like I had to go find everyone and be like is it okay if I put this book out It just felt very personal, you know very like I don't know. Why would I show that to anybody? Does the act of having put it out I mean big thing of the punk scene was you didn't have to ask for permission and You got permission and you've gotten A claim for putting this out. Does it make it easier to Not ask for permission Or need permission Yeah, I mean we all just got to get on with it. Don't we I don't know. I mean we we don't have that much time So we might as well just do what we want to do Okay, last question for you the the so your character in silence of the lambs. It's so much about the body Mm-hmm Plus I had lost all the weight Being a vegetarian And then they were like, okay, you have to gain 20 pounds and I also was supposed to be totally naked And I was like guys. I'm a single 21 year old like really Um, yeah did a number on me gaining the weight As you can imagine Yeah But also the pit itself did a number on me and got me in touch with a lot of stuff because I just remember being in there and thinking I would give up Wow And I had to look at that but yeah, you And it's interesting. You know what I mean? Like the character did not she was like How did she she thought of the bone and tie it to the thing and give the I was like I would just give up and be on the I'd just be a sobbing fetal position You know and then I thought why wouldn't I fight for myself? but but but you also Didn't go in the pit you were on you found a creative clever way to say With a camera you were on the side. You weren't in the pit. That's what it was called the audience. It's the pit So she wasn't in the pit. You were safe. You found a way to be safely on the side documenting the pit. So it's kind of like a What is a disassociation in a sense of not There's another self in the pit And I mean the future self is in the pit. I'm getting all fucking out there Just be original Exactly Let's look at a couple more and then we'll open it up. This is this is uh god Hang on you got more oops Jinji's interesting that guy there Jinji. He's um the son One of the very few people of color on the scene. He was the lead singer of um Solution no god. I'm gonna get it wrong and all you guys in zoom land are gonna hate me. Um There are worse things in life. I guess Anyway, his dad was mary and brown the jazz musician and he came from the Bronx and you know that whole scene up there was in graffiti and This was in a squat the guy on the right lives there That's buzz Jimmy Jimmy Gestapo We don't call him that now This is Jimmy guys letters from Jimmy Gestapo Wanting to bust me out from the mental hospital didn't understand. It was an open unit. I could leave any fucking time And Yeah, and we ran into uh Ross from the cavity creeps and murphy's law again letters phone calls. Just tell me I'll come get you Why the fuck are you there? It's because I knew I couldn't survive on the street There's Alexa And my mom's Subaru Super Yeah, a lot of these people are gone. She's gone And that's the thing what's when you gather it's it's talking about Who didn't make it and so many people didn't if there was no I was lucky that I had I had A family that my mother did fight for me and I I a lot of it was luck getting a social worker landing in a group home that worked for me But if you didn't have that and didn't have a net there I mean it reminds me I think things might be worse now. Um, what are the rights of passage for people now? That's what I wonder. Who is that? That yeah, I thought I might as well throw that in Uh, that's me. Yeah You know again in my mom's Subaru On the palisades parkway. Now. What did you what did you think of yourself? Because to me you are just so tender and beautiful. I mean this is kind of huge I don't think I've ever shown this photo publicly to anybody because you're in here, but look at I was okay You were okay, but you know what I mean I didn't think so. What did you think I just didn't want anyone near me and I was just completely At the same time numb and totally full of pain Were you saying that to anyone? No I mean because to me you look so What the way you described yourself before was so painful and I don't see any of that, but I don't know Oh, because that's kind of the negative the negative what you who said before about how I actually thought about yourself But is that does that change for you seeing it now? I mean can you offer her that compassion? Can you lick her? Well, yeah, and how wild then you grow up right and have your own kids and think about you know I mean I have a kid that age right now and she's wonderful and she doesn't look like that What way wait wait what but what would that wouldn't mean to that? It would be beautiful She'd be I don't know probably does everyone go through it even people who are not. I mean is it just part of life? It is yeah, someone said yeah, see I I mean it seems like it's possible to that's why I like to take pictures No matter what if even if I say oh my god, I look terrible because I know looking back I'll say wow look how young I looked. Yeah, we all have that So this is this is the book sunday matinee and we're now going to open it up and thank you for Sitting here for our conversation Thank you, but Okay, we'll take a few questions if you want to raise your hand Thanks, what's your name, please? Oh, my name is lorraine olson I'm really a big fan girl of you brook. So Um So I got the book and I was looking at I looked at all the photos and and considering what laura said about the women who opted For motherhood because I opted out and I'm of an age But I'm I'm I was really struck by those photographs of those women with those children And if you could sort of encapsulate Those Who those women were to you? I mean I I'm still I still know them and um You know It was all love. I'm sorry, but it was they were they were in love with I mean both People all three actually so it's um Alexa and tommy just totally in love and you know I said guys, maybe you shouldn't have a baby. I don't know You know, but it's like And she's fantastic. I mean she's a grown person now um So all of them same Madonna and fran and and amen They were totally in love and and same with them Amy and roger So it was uh, I don't know. I don't know You know, who's to say what did it bring up for you? Fuck the rules just talk Like I said as somebody who opted out of parenthood consciously because I had a sister Whatever she had four kids two were home bursts. I was there for One of them and fainted and my mother turned to me and said well, I guess we're done with grandkids and I said, yeah, so So but but I love children. I currently am caretaking a seven and ten year old my great nephews, so I'm I'm At the age of 62 kind of oddly into kids, but those pictures really struck me I mean, they're beaming, you know, and that's I didn't expect to find that in this book You know what? I mean, they're really beautiful little surprises. I kind of found them delightful. So that's good. I'm glad But yeah delight is what it brought up for me and I didn't you know, I wasn't expecting that in a book about hardcore New York City punk scene. There was so much love. I mean it was that I you It was creating family and falling in love And even to this day, I really feel like if I was in trouble and called jimmy, he'd be there You know, like we have each other's backs in a way that but I guess like I said, it must be for other people in other worlds, right? Well, I think when you go through traumas is like a very intense glue When people who you've gone through a traumatic event Um, do you want to Nobody else has a question. Oh, okay Wait, hello I was wondering if you had any. Oh, sorry. What's your name, please? I'm sarah. Sarah. Nice to meet you I was wondering if you had any thoughts or feelings or responses to the riot girl movement in the 90s The riot girl movement A lot of it was kind of a response to hardcore and like the exclusion of yeah And what were the years when did it start exactly like the early 90s to mid 90s? And can you say some of the band names? Well, the most famous probably the keeney kill Yeah, um, I mean I was not familiar with that scene. Well, I mean, I mean they they went to jail I mean they are really they're activists. Um and it's it's uh Caring on that spirit it's women not being limited and I think that you've continued to see Women disregarding I'm gonna use the p word patriarchy, you know and and Just doing it the way they need to without asking for flocking permission, you know And and going to jail for it in some cases and it's incredibly powerful and inspiring for legions of women and girls who People of all ways of identifying to start bands and be out there and it's it's incredible And and all shapes and sizes I mean now I see people that don't have to wear A uniform and wear a mini skirt and a certain outfit or be a certain gender and look a certain way Then you can be any fucking way identify any fucking way you fucking want Nobody has the right to say what pronoun you use if somebody rolls their eyes That's their fucking issue and that's what we've seen change and it's fucking great But yes, some people are definitely going to jail for it. We'll still be killed for it Does that answer? Thank you for your cross Jen Okay, next we we have a question from zoom There were more black people in the photos than expected. How far did inclusivity go? I mean, I knew I knew quite a few people who were also, I mean roger was is cuban Um, I knew some asian people. I knew some black people. I knew I mean, but it was Yeah, I don't know. Was it different in other towns? I wonder because it was new york So new york was a real was this scene was a real real melting pot and it wasn't until later that You had these wars with This gets into the minutiae shit of like maximum rock and wall with tim yo-han and was wonderful and brilliant and He would talk about the violence in the new york hard core scene, which is unattracted more violence and saying So these kids basically Walking around calling themselves names that were meant to provoke really had no ideological You can't hold them to there. There was no Ideological priors on these people because it was just like whatever will piss you off. I'm gonna do it and say it and People were spouting off. I remember singing along with bands That I had no idea what the fuck, you know how the way you'll have a kid singing I pledge allegiance to frad night. I said it was like that And it was like just saying this shit um and People who you came from I was jewish and I I and people were of color and and how about the bad brains and how they were the best of all of them You know, that was always so cool. It's still playing. Yeah So that was one thing that was very unique about the new york city hard core scene. It was a real real melting pot and it it It wasn't until later when people had come in and provoke when you let's blame it on steve bannon He was back there, wasn't he search it Okay, another question, please Uh the Hi, i'm i'm blue. Hi. You're blue blue blue. Hi blue. Hi ufo I was wondering so, you know, we look back at that time and now we know what a special time that was for punk music When in that moment when you were taking photos Did you get a sense that you were documenting like music history or a part of music history? Or was it really more? Those were your friends and who you were around at the time And you were just taking pictures of what was going on around you or did you kind of know that in the future? You'd have something really special Documented in music history. Yeah, that's a good question. Um, I don't think I thought about the future at all But I did think this was the coolest thing. So I was going to take pictures of it, you know Yeah, I don't think I thought about that and it's funny I was just saying today like if you took these pictures out 20 years ago I'd feel like people would be like, oh, yeah, that's nice. Whatever. I don't know. Why is it so? Why does it mean so much now? Is it because we're all like Whatever age we are. I mean, I think it it You spoke to that before first of all it was a time when people didn't have iPhones It happened kids were creating these shows a lot of kids were it wasn't with adults involved a lot Or they were very young and it did to answer that part of the question It did feel very exciting. It did feel like this is everything, you know Yeah, and you could die. I mean literally it's like it felt like uh, it was very But it also didn't feel about we were going to get famous and make money either The end all be all was just It was just of the moment But you had them in the shoe box in a box not a shoe box And I was moving and a friend saw them and was like, can I show these to a curator? And I was like ooh a curator Yeah, and so then I had a show and then it took forever and you know the pandemic. I finally just said all right I got to do something in this house But I also think it you really did capture you so Disappeared and we're so Through that lens and capturing This kinetic energy and that's one thing about the scene. It was a very kinetic Based on moving constantly moving because literally people to stay still risked uh Inner reflection and nobody wanted to do that And so if you were going to be still you were going to get high and fucked up because you didn't want to sit still And so much of it was this energy and you really There's so much motion going on like if you look in the book you'll see background stuff of people and and expressions And that's very special to that time and nobody's like posing and thinking i'm going to be an influencer, you know It's very interesting um for some reason. I just remember that someone in this book um Who now lives in a commune in oregon? Used to called farmageddon shout out to farmageddon Neil um I think he was in the animal liberation front and they used to break into labs and like led bunnies free and stuff I don't know why I just thought of that. I thought I'd throw that out there It's a good one. I mean any people could do anything uh In other great houses Up here in the front Oh There's one in the back then one more on there What's your name, please? Uh, my name is george santos Your reward for that i'm nicole I was very struck to hear both of you say that Your engagement with the scene came to an end after you had each experience an extreme loss And Initially the scene is energized by rage because so many of the people involved had suffered physical abuse sexual abuse emotional abuses you were saying And yet the abuse was never acknowledged never spoken of So the grief that should have articulated itself at the abuse was buried And when you both suffered a loss later on the grief came out And once the grief came out the rage was dissipated And the engagement with the scene came to an end. Does does that make sense? Does that sound plausible to you? And going to shows um, I used to feel like the mute like like I always had noise in my head And I'd go to the show and it would really do that it would relieve some of that, you know noise Wow, that's very cool what you just said Well, it was getting in touch with grief That enabled the the rage to come to an end and and took out the energy that engaged you in the scene And you know my family never dealt with my brother's death either Really? No, they just didn't So I I didn't go back there, but I did leave this place, you know, that was my family. So that's interesting Yeah Yeah, absolutely. I mean I it it hits that sour spot where I want to cry. So I know it's It's definitely how could I sing about like? You're not a crazy institutional sticker. Yeah, I'm the one who's crazy You know when it's just like yeah, that's like finally you're in touch with that grief I saw a pretty cool documentary the other day you guys about this life of agony. You guys know that band It was after me You should find it. It's uh, netflix or amazon or something and it's it's unbelievable. You got to see it I won't say what it is then but what what triggered I mean Just the fact that this lead singer of this band as they got to their like peak and they were going to become huge quit and no one knew why And then it was because he was trans And now they're on tour And she is singing So what what year did they stop? I mean they started 90. So I was already out and uh, I don't know when they stopped and now they're on tour. Like I said, so uh, and his and the story, I mean, it's just amazing to see him back then and His family was I mean that trauma stuff is real Did you think it wasn't no well Maybe yeah, well, that's the or not universal, but I guess everyone has trauma. Yeah Yeah It's just a matter of degree I guess And uh, I think we have time for one more Hey UFO. Oh, can we do two? Okay, hey, I'm ali. Hi ali Um, kind of like a little bit like what that last question was about I um I want to thank you guys for having a talk about hardcore punk rock that like talks about it as The like drama therapy that it that it sort of is especially from like a female perspective. I appreciate you both um, I wonder like I wonder like Uh, for you like when did um, I guess you're saying like when your brother died or like You know like these things happened that made you when did you really like fully? Come full circle with it and realize that that like Right of passage that you were going through with your body with your trauma and stuff like had uh Like can you talk more about that like like how long did it take till I could see it all clearly I was gonna say like 10 minutes ago. I don't know it's it's I guess everyone does this right? I'm only alive this one time as far as I know But um, like when you get to this age, right? You start looking back and things make sense It's and we kind of knew then too, didn't we? Damn it. That's what I mean by like we should just get on with it um Can you answer that question? I No I'm writing, you know and often I when I write. I mean I I created a Whole other being To find out what how I felt and as best as gloves to handle material I couldn't yeah, that was my camera, you know Do you feel like you have that too? Yeah, like an ongoing thing punk rocker Kid I I'm like an outreach case manager, which I feel like is like another form of like Trying to hurt yourself a little bit Wait, so being an outreach worker feels like it it's When you yeah, yeah, kind of like if you've um Been part of that life and then you're trying to be of service, but in a fucked up world it yeah, it feels kind of like uh It's masochistic um in a way that's kind of like uh, that reminds me of I don't know my time doing well sometimes it is like going back in time and trying to Reach a self that um Um Needs help and and as if you're going back You know to it you're reaching to help us off That didn't get that and what I would suggest to you is that you never know When you are going to the effect of you're being present with someone Will actually make a difference and you might not see it then that that need to be of service to Yourself it might be feeling like a selfish reason um That obviously is is a is everything we do is complex um that really could save someone's life And sometimes you might not know you might not ever find out, but you might have someone show up and say hey you saved my life So thank you for doing that as someone who I've had people in my life who gave that And I couldn't say anything to them. They they saved my life You know and and I made art that I know has saved people's lives, you know, so um next question Hi, my name's Denise. Hi Denise. Hi Denise. Hello I guess Brooke to speak on your point about like why do people care about the photos now? um In a way, it's kind of taking a look to the past. I'm of a younger generation So it's a a time that I don't know about and it's kind of seeing in their faces the same pain that People have today and it's very validating can seem like a bit cyclical Where it's you can be in this moment that looks so familiar But it's not your time and then to see how people grow out of it It's a bit inspirational and also just validating to see like you struggles Everybody goes through no matter what time period it is and so I guess to kind of speak to your question why it's so interesting um But my great. Yeah My question for you guys is when you're Going through talking about this time period of of of what you guys went through Do you look at it now from like a bird's eye view of Seeing I guess what what emotions come up most is it pain for your old self that had to go through this trauma? Or is it compassion? Is it regret remorse? Just curious in what comes up and if it's new every time or the same kind of emotions Oh my god Um, wow, I just thought of so many things at once There's a guy in the book named Carl and uh when I was in new york recently I was sitting in the old a7 which was this club. We were always at Signing pictures of my old friend who's no longer here And I just started crying because I just thought I can just see us across the street You know and if someone came up to me You know like 40 years ago and said hey one day You'll be across the street signing pictures of this guy and you know um Yeah, I I thought of something else too, but I'm trying to remember what it was. Um I don't know It's It's moments of being you know, it's hard to plug in to get past like um the bullshit And then just find that raw place where you live within it and connect to that really That it's a scared bunch of people trying to create a community a family and so many didn't get out alive and um and go back and have like the way um Alley Is doing outreach. It's almost like you look back at these pictures and seeing For me like there are people how did I fail them? How did I feel fail myself? and and letting go of that and Um the drive to like, you know get on with it It's like what our mentor would say do the next indicated thing because sometimes it's so hard to get off that hamster wheel of like The regret the mourning the this the that it's important to grieve And to acknowledge it and that I think is the impulse and art and in a way when you create art In a sense, you kind of give it away And you you let go of it and you create a common Story that other people can recognize themselves within and becomes larger than It's a giving birth. It's it and it's it's the right time like for me It was knowing that was not the right time for me to welcome my baby Eventually it was and I think that's that's the continuum of storytelling Which you're doing as well and in the writing written form I also look at them and I just feel like So thankful to that world because I really do feel like it saved me You know So I feel like, you know, I want to honor it, you know Like it's a love letter to that time, you know Yeah, yeah, it definitely is I I mean, I think it's the importance that people can create community and find it UFO you have a question You do not break the rule. What about this? This will be our last one But what about these poor kids now? I'm just thinking of my kid and how she just went through this COVID and was on the friggin zoom School and how do you create community? I can see them really struggling. Well, it's not. I mean, they're doing it they you know, they and we I think our job is to Give them the time and the space to acknowledge that they went through something really fucked up and not It's our fears of okay There's economic factors and you want them to go to school and take advantage of this and that but also to recognize that they need to find Have their time out And and we it's not our job to find them their scene or their way of expression. They will let us know UFO yes Edwin What's your name Ed Ed hi Ed. Yeah, why is she calling you? You have to well I make music so okay. I discovered myself in that I don't get out much. Sorry. It's okay. Um Being a photographer, um and in the environment that you were in did you ever meet resistance? Taking photos without anyone knowing and Like it seemed like you seem to know everybody. So you're like pretty much family But um, I know um, she's a photographer and there'll be days where I'm like It's so difficult to get photos randomly because everyone will be like don't take my photo or the flash Like how how if you did meet resistance, how did you handle it? You know I would never take a picture of anyone that I felt you know what I mean Like I I definitely it took years because I've made documentaries and stuff And I had to learn to just like keep shooting keep shooting, you know like um Gosh, I'm just losing my mind again. Um Wait so No, but I remember sitting in front of seabees and when people would drive by to take our picture We'd be like five bucks You know Yeah, totally. So I think I wouldn't have tried to take pictures. I just would have been too nervous I would have been I wouldn't want that reaction Yeah, there's a picture the uh, the village voice used to do that They would come and take pictures of the kids outside cbdb's and I I dressed my sister. I was a stylist I you know with the badges and everything and she was one of the featured one and dn. Arbus's kid was doing it dune, I think is that was it and uh They got shit. They it was dangerous for the village voice people to come around Do you think it helped that you were female taking the pictures My gut was yes When you just asked that but I I don't know why It was like the mama with the baby It's kind of cradling think of the weight of it was a big minolta baby All right, I like Brooke to sign her baby um, and I will be signing my babies and um Just want to thank you all for Coming and thank the library and thank you everyone. Thank you sam. Thank you anisa. Thank you michelle. Thank you This is a very very special place and I'm glad we're able to gather here and um Anything else you want to know just thanks guys. Yeah