 Why don't we introduce yourselves? Hi, I'm Carol, I'm a working environment. I can talk for a little bit, I don't need, there I am. Hi, Abby Devlin, I'm Lauren, I'm the morning person meeting, so I don't know what else people like me to say at all. Well, what have you found? I'd like to get more involved in the need for that. Right. And where are you living? I live on Hill Street. You need more news for your participation. I'll call my neighbors when it's time. I'm in prison for a period of my life, I've been in jail for 20 years. Most of you know or some of you may remember me from my time on Hill Street, about 15 years ago, longer. But I'm here today to talk to you about the forum, my capacity at H3R, the place to mission. I'm one of the newly invested commissioners and the respondents who get some feedback from folks that live in more complicated need about the situation and the downhounding on Coral of Church Street. I attended $20 meetings last fall, September, October, and there was a little bit of insight there, so I just wanted to open that door and let you know that we're open to them. But I'm creating stuff on Thursday, Wednesday of the month, from 9 to 11, in the Booker College. Thank you. So our first, what might be helpful would be letting Linda Ruzzi know that when the meeting was going on by evening or something, I would get the NTA. Okay, here you go. That was announcements, and I can speak out here like that. We're moving on, I appreciate anything. The way it was asked of why we split for more and more, and I think it was felt that the time was ready for us to have more of a voice about our concerns and not necessarily share of oxygen with, essentially my estimation became UDM in the hospital, and those were important for our community, but our concerns are a little bit different than the big institutions which dominate World War I. And even though we may be very small, I think we needed opportunity for at least people in the war to get to know each other and then also to make a combination of trying to bring in more people for NTA and for participation, somehow. And so I was in favor of us forming our own NTA. Keith was the one who actually, I think you put protests. No, I didn't. I didn't thought you were telling me issues that you wanted to yet, or not specifically, the group was telling me issues you wanted to be NTA, warrants one and eight were discussed. And it seemed that we were not necessarily, and Hannah King was also on it, wasn't necessarily moving as fast as we thought it should be to deal with those issues. So we decided that they had their issues. We had ours, and we needed to really have a chance to have the war with eight people. I didn't, I did not leave the protest. They have certainly had the fair issues that they want to deal with, and they actually don't really apply to us that much. So that's why, that's why as a group, we all decided we needed to be independent so that we could talk about the issues that I think people are talking about in this war. And I'm hoping people will bring forward those issues so that we'll know what they're thinking. One of the issues we've heard a lot about is the redistricting. So that's why our christening is on that. But we're hoping that people will bring forward issues that they'd like us to not discuss and bring in people to give us more information about. I'd also like to introduce Linda Rivsey who everything I know about the NPA I learned from Linda. Linda has been on the Ward 8 representative for many years, right? At one time it was Ann Brenna, it's been Emily Lee, it's my turn now. But Linda is kind of the bridge between past and current Ward 8. But Linda, can you tell us a little bit about your, you know, where you live, why you think this is important, what you hope to accomplish. Nothing, nothing made me. Hi, I'm Linda Rivsey. I live in on Hunger for Terrorists in Ward 8. And Bill is exaggerating my contributions. But I was on the NPA steering committee for a little over a year. And I just echo maybe what Keith said, which is that we have concerns that are special to our ward. And I'm really looking forward to having a chance for Ward 8 residents to be able to have a voice and speak out and to be heard. And so one of the things that we're experimenting with at this meeting, knowing that we're a smaller group, is to try to have it be a little bit more our point of view, not so much a reflection of our view through the city, which I think some of the NPAs are, that the political class are sitting in the meeting and they have a point as they should. But sometimes that influences what's talked about the viewpoints that are allowed. And I think we want to try to have it be more us and not so much our beloved city councilors and state representatives, although they should be at this meeting. And so Ali, I hope you don't mind that we're going to try to engage you with our thoughts and then look to you for leadership or distilling what we say in your views of things and other people who aren't here's views and so that we can maybe be a more effective component of the whole state enterprise here. Because I think that voices are lost in Burlington. And as you can just see from the attendance here, although it's our fault it didn't get organized correctly, we have to get more people in the rooms. And so I hope we can do that and there will be more discussion. So that's kind of what I'm doing. So we will try to finish by 11 that we're small. I'm big about starting meeting on time and on time. And we all on a beautiful Saturday last one, the last week in Sunday, you don't want to hear me talk. So any other speakouts, any anybody else have anything they want to say? Sam, you allowed to talk? Can't call on you? Sam is good. We're also trying to have in order to have more focused discussion is to have single topic or two topics meetings where we don't discuss the broad array of all the issues that we face because we tend to hear the same things. And we'd like to maybe take one issue and have more discussion about that more viewpoints and more time than simply run down the list of all the topics that get talked about all the time at the meetings. And so you may have something you really want to talk about, either at the beginning of the meeting you can have your say or talk to us and we'll try to get on the agenda so we can have more discussion about single topic. This week's topic, this month's topic is redistricting. This is the basis of how Ward 8 came to be. And for those of you who were here at the time, it was a little bit of an odd duck but we've existed and I think it's done very well in many ways and not so well in other ways. And I know that Keith and Linda at the steering committee felt this was a very important issue for us. Ali, do you know what the when this is going to be voted on and what the process of accepting this is, even up through the state level? Yeah, so it's funny because everybody I think sort of on Council has sort of their differing opinions of when they'd like to vote on it. I know at the state level from what I've heard just talking to folks definitely sometime next session, but it's yeah, it's difficult just because I think there's a lot of competing opinions and this solution that I that from what I understood made most people on the Council happy. There's something that the mayor has said he would veto which was the 8 Ward 2 rep map. And so now we have this new proposal for the 7 Ward 12 counselor map and so I think people are and still reviewing it that seems to be sort of the front runner at this time, but yeah, unfortunately, that's sort of the like the extent to the consensus that we've come to. So I didn't hear the process in there. I didn't hear that on this day we have this meeting to discuss this and then there's a revision and it goes through the Council again or back to the NPAs or to the state. What is the actual process? Yeah, unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure. I don't even know if there is a clearly defined process at this point. I think there's so many things being thrown out. The process is kind of getting a little bit convoluted, but I can definitely check with like the person who I know is sort of taking a little bit of that role. And I can also check with Karen Paul as well to try and figure that out. But I know Karen is really pushing to vote on this issue sooner rather than later and so we can have some some answers. Okay, so Linda or Keith, do you understand the process at all? Keith, you might. Well, I do, but I guess I'm going to start the conversation on redistricting. I was here, I've lived in my house on University Terrace for 49 years and I've always wondered why we were segregated from the rest of the ward, but I was because we were in Ward 1 for many, many years and well 46 or 7 years and I ran for school board and I found that it was very difficult for me to get elected because nobody knew me in my neighborhood. I was a totally different neighborhood. I never really kind of didn't think about the fact I lost twice before I got elected and then I realized when Joan Shannon talks about electability that we need a ward that's compact so people know each other and so I kind of got through that. And then while I was on the school board, they were talking about redistricting and I assumed that they would do a good job for all of us. Then the next thing I know I'm in a new ward with next to 4,000 plus students who I can't access if I'm going to run for school board. So it just was very frustrating to me and when I look at this 7 Ward map I know it's a compromise. Basically the bottom line is I can see where you're going to we're going to end up probably the same numbers of progressives and Democrats and others with this with this new 7 Ward map you probably have 7, we'll probably have 6, 6 and I think that's probably what generates why we have our redistricting is so that people can maintain their power and their party power which doesn't necessarily help out the neighborhoods. Sam can you pull that map up? Do you have access to pull that up? Okay but I could just say that you know I've always wanted to be in neighborhoods where we're close by with families that our kids go to school with that we interact with but never get to see at the polls because we've always had to be in a distant way and that is one thing I'm also concerned that Ward 6 is taking on a lot of students if we're taking on the 4,000 plus and then they say that UBM has really given the right number of beds so I don't know if that's there may be 1200 more beds on that campus plus Champlain campus that really puts a lot of students that we probably as any candidate doesn't have access to which means that students inside their their housing situations are able to campaign and get their candidates and kind of leaves those of us who are longer-term residents without a lot of influence in the vote so that is a concern for me but the fact that I'm in Ward 6 is a beginning and it makes me feel like okay maybe now we're accepted as a street that is a lot of families on the street a lot of children as well it's a mixture I think it's an integrated mixture of students and families that works that's that is working reasonably well right now that's my opinion there it is yeah so I'm gonna I think it's okay for me to ask people to speak up right yeah and you can say no Linda I know that there were some meetings this early summer that resulted in a list of some principles that we felt would assist the redistricting process do you remember what those were I remember it the attitude was that is it you know how do we increase democracy in the city and how do we help with some of them how can redistricting help get through some of the gridlock which there is occasionally and why don't you since you remember it and I like everything my computer has been wiped so I why don't you why don't you go and describe those things so I'm only going to tell you what Anne Brenna I wish Anne Brenna was here because she has the memory in the family one of the principles that I remember was that we felt it was better for the students to be in multiple wards than in a single war that their voice would then be broadened a little bit throughout the city and that was a good thing that you know that the the new north end wards may not have an abundance of students but if there was a way that they participated in that word it may be it would be better for students and for all of us Keith you were in those meetings you remember I thought we wanted a balance we kind of wanted a balance of students and longer term renters or longer term home owners and that was one of the things and we thought that sort of splitting up the student population would be better for for the students and give everybody a chance to have a chance to have democracy rather than and don't have a chance for being your side being elected the the thing that that I think well we I I forgot what I was going to say but I think it was making sure that there was a balance so that everyone felt like they had a say Chris I believe you were at some of the were you in the steering committee for that on the ward the input from the wards for the redistricting at the beginning of the process okay okay but there were a whole list of suggestions that were made up I was somewhat cynical at the time that they were going to be used Ali they were available I hope that they do enter into some of the voting discussions about because there was a fair amount of effort and I think it was sincere effort on the people who went to this and I'd like to see some of that be represented in the final outcome Laura have you been through redistricting yet okay if you're lucky you won't be with Keith and me after the which Laura do you have a Lauren do you have an idea about this redistricting or have you seen the map and yeah okay great you have any point do you want to name I think it would be beneficial for the students to be spread out because it is high turnover and it's also a different you know you get a lot of different viewpoints so it encompasses having that high turnover so you don't lose some of the people that are leading the different wards but you also get new ideas cycling in with the new students one thing that I've noticed through the years is that there's a group of students Ali being one of them who have our talented activists caring people who want to help city government and you can we all and we need that kind of help but as their life changes they're here only a short period of time when they move on or they they don't want to live on Beale Street after a few years they moved to someplace else and so how do we keep them active and engaged no matter where they live in the city and I think that's a I think we need to draw into that more so that we're often accused of being anti students and I don't think that's true at all I think that the idea behind redistricting is to give more people voice not just those who happen to you know win an election which is what's often pointed out to me sometimes so are there other other this is gonna be a great meeting because we're gonna end real quick are there other inputs on this Linda um well let me give him some let me give that some thought you know some of the issues have been addressed with the compactness and I do think the students are being spread out some more um I I don't know whether this is something that would be okay to ask but I don't understand why the mayor will reject a and maybe it's a moot point and not worth spending time on but we're going we're going to be having this it seems like we're keeping with us some kind of district system with this seven word map is that correct Allie yes or or no it's um no it's still going to be so it's going to be two counselors per ward with the exception of I believe ward seven let me take a look at the map um I will one ward would have one counselor yes um and that was um sort of uh a compromise of the old north end and new north end really wanting to remain ward three and seven will have one counselor three and six and seven three and seven yeah how many what is the population of the of the ward three on this map because that would be the word that we're it wouldn't we become ward three they're talking this is the target population it's on it's on the map that I gave you that for the one district was for the one counselor it was 37 uh 3729 for the two counselors it was 7457 okay and ward three would have how many counts how many what's the the population expected their target is 3729 okay Keith I wonder if we're looking at different number I mean it's it's probably not that big a difference but the number that I have is um 3824 well we could be I just took what I got from uh I didn't get what I got from um uh Nancy on Wednesday I this thing's changed I'm not that I know I don't know why it's showing a different number okay well we're so we're so close though yeah yeah so I feel a little bit um you know like this is really at odds with the um I understand it's the conventional way of doing things but um and maybe I'm not just thinking outside the box but uh to deny people two counselors I would like an explanation of why the two counselors eight wards will be vetoed yeah so um and this is something that I I personally am pretty um pretty frustrated by um uh the mayor seems to um feel that that is um too many city counselors um he does he is not in favor of a 16 um 16 person city council and I um personally don't think we can go wrong with more representation and I um you know I mean from the start I've I've supported the uh eight eight ward to rep map um so you know but I guess um that seems to be a pretty hard line in the sand um for him and I I mean you know it's not just um progressives that were um you know supporting that um you know that map so I you know I I don't fully understand um the reasoning but has the um has the city council or the mayor or anybody engaged in any conversations around whatever the issues are about having two representatives um uh whatever that problem whatever the problem is has has any discussion happened about easing that problem because this is a very odd solution to have one representative when you know maybe there are some things that could happen in the city that would um could kind of well just to repeat myself just to ease the situation yeah I um I agree it's very odd um and um so so what um you know so as I understand it the mayor's reasoning behind um you know not wanting you know that is that there there would be two on the city council um he seems to feel like it would be more difficult to come to consensus um on issues and I I personally just don't feel that way I think the more voices in the room the better I think our city's already seen what happens when you try to draw up like weird configurations and maps um and I I I think you can't really go wrong with more representation in our city and so I personally don't feel that moving to a you know 16 city council would be a bad solution um but it's even constitutional to do this because that means that my vote translates and I can only impact directly with my vote one counselor where other people can impact two counselors and I wonder if that is even copacetic in in a legal sense I agree the other thing it sets up is there are natural associations between wars and it over um there's too much power in some wars like ward three and and ward seven maybe you know we're outvoted together then would be the other wards and I think nobody's saying that this isn't a political decision for one party to be in power versus another one that's why this is done but um I really think that I agree with Linda that for us to have one counselor for the same number of people just doesn't really make any sense yeah no I mean I I agree I have still and I've said you know in every single meeting city council and behind closed doors I think it would be a mistake not to go with the eight ward two rep map I'm still in favor of that um you know and this is I can definitely bring um that specific concern about ward three having one rep up on Monday um yeah it's um has the discussion of the legality of it come up at all um not in not in any meetings that I've been in but that is absolutely an issue that I can raise um because that's a very good point and then I have another question because originally it seemed like the eight ward two counselors was going to be the compromise position that a lot of people supported and I'm wondering whether there was enough votes to override a veto that's a good question um I'm not sure there has been there has been a little bit of um discussion about that and um I think that would probably involve um me placing a couple of calls maybe like talking to Karen Paul about that because I know that Karen was interested as well to see the eight ward two rep map as well as Mark Barlow but I'm I'm not sure where they are at in this moment um I feel like sometimes justice people um settle sort of on on one solution in one compromise there's another map that's thrown at us um and then we kind of go back to the drawing board and um it's been a little bit of a frustrating process um but I think um I I think that that's a good that's a good question and I know that if um that map was passed and it was vetoed I would certainly vote to override it um so I'm okay with one counselor thought you get two votes and actually Chris Hazley is Chris what ward are you currently in um currently in ward three so we can get the the actual ward three perspective from Chris Chris you got a few minutes and we will end in lem 15 because Sam and Charles very generously came in on Saturday and we're not going to keep in light so well thank you so much so again this goes back to its functionation of a population you need to have equal sized wards one person one vote um and some of the wards grew bigger than other so that's why we're having this discussion um so the seven by 12 map hybrid model is essentially based on a six-word map configuration so there's a mathematical equation here I think many of you are familiar with it you take the total population the city divided by the proposed number of wards and then you'll get your ideal population so with the seven by 12 map they divided the total population by six which results in a figure of like 74 56 or something I don't have in front of me and then they took the sixth word and cut it in half to come up with words three and seven so that was I think you know my understanding of how that all came to pass there uh big picture um my recollection was we heard a lot of people um speak they want two counselors for war for all of the reasons that are being brought up here granted we do have multi-member districts and single-member districts uh at the state level but it's got to be done in a way to serve one person one vote which is why wards one or wards three and wards seven have half the population of the other five to meet that standard um what I would say a bigger picture uh that would be the disadvantage of the seven by 12 was that not everyone gets two counselors the seven word map will inevitably do to the mathematics involved take a big chunk out of the old north end and necessarily results uh in the marriage between a portion of the old north end and new north end which seems to be politically untenable from a number of perspectives uh and the eight word map will do a similar uh job on wards seven award one because the current award one is above the threshold for our existing eight word map so if we wanted to keep eight words they would have to go smaller so those are I think big dynamics in play um clearly you know there's some folks in ward one that probably aren't going to be folk happy with an eight word map that's going to maybe move them to ward two uh similarly uh I think there's some folks both in the old north end and new north end you know are really not excited about a shock and marriage my point is saying all this there's really no uh perfect solution um I just simply say you know looking at a solution is going to benefit the greatest number of people in the cities um in my time of drawing maps and I think those days are behind me at this point um the thing I tried to focus on primarily was the statutory requirements of the equal population uh cohesive districts and compact districts and then the other criteria was the community value of preserving neighborhoods and I think that preserving the neighborhoods can be done it's going to be a challenge and it may not be done in a way that makes everyone happy um but at the end of the day I think the the statutory requirements really need to be driving this thank you so can I just say that yes please go ahead I understand everything you're saying this map doesn't have equal population and it's really it's not just splitting hairs two of the wards have half of the population that is a huge deviation so I just don't know that you know just to kind of repeat myself I don't know whether or not the one giving one representative to have the population is equal to having equal populations with a five percent deviation that's a good question it would surprise you I don't want to bore any voices sorry sorry you had to say thank you no I was going to choke thanks for I do think it's it's helpful to have other wards weigh in on this alley you've got some some thinking to do we can do it appreciate you know not only you carrying this forward in our interest but also reflecting back to us your thoughts and I guess the progressive party thoughts because that's what it's going to come down to so we can at least be informed of how these decisions being made because it does impact us in a big way the last redistricting impacted us a lot and we just want to be part of it this time so we appreciate your knowledge well what happened to you all last time was completely unacceptable and unfair um you know I just I really do not want to say that happen again um yeah I appreciate that and uh sorry I just want to say that I really appreciate that the new maps are addressing the issue yeah yeah no I mean that's you know that's the goal I think like I remember the first time when I first got here looking at the Ward 8 map and being like that what is that you know like I was like come on that's like I mean like if you look up the definition of gerrymandering it's like arms and our board is just two big arms which makes zero sense to me um and personally I would rather see and I'm not just saying this because I am not I'm not at all a career politician um and I I also hate public speaking so I get very nervous at those meetings but I would rather see a map um where like I couldn't get elected but that's going to be fair for the next 10 years um then see a map that guarantees career politicians in Burlington that's that's really the bottom line for me um okay so that we're going to wrap this up but before we do this um I would like to have input Allie you're you're welcome to have discussion too about the topics of these meetings going forward so the next meeting which is going to be sometime late September the two topics that have been discussed and the steering committee has been on the school budget and the impact that that has on the city and then the other one was policing both of which I think are important and if you have strong preferences or if there's other issues that you want to get on to the agenda let us know so that we it's we talk about what you want to talk about so Keith you want to wrap this up a little bit I really appreciate you being here Allie and this is the first time that we've really actually had an active voice and you know how we'd like to see the city run um we're trusting that you will make good decisions and and uh and that we can we can have a democracy that reflects what all the city wants I know I know that's idealistic but I'm I'm an idealist and I really appreciate you being here it sounds like we have an interest in knowing about the school the high school bond and we and we know but we have some issues with uh safety and policing we want to talk about and there are other issues that I'm sure will come forward that people want to talk about maybe even affordability of the housing in our district but we'll see what people say Sam and Charles thanks for coming in on Saturday we very much appreciate it and we'll get you out of here in a few minutes sorry do you mind if I say one thing before we go last word Allie you get last word oh sorry yeah um so I just wanted to kind of be um very transparent about what's going on I um have not been able to monitor my email inbox as much as um I really um would hope um and like I've heard some concerns from folks um and just full disclosure um I have um been going through some very um prolonged and truthfully very traumatic life um circumstances and um you know I'm well supported the CJC's involved um for like restorative justice type stuff um but it's been just a very difficult time with me um given the fact that I also um you know hold two other jobs um and so but I do really want to be available I really really want to hear um folks concerns so um first thing I really appreciate you know as being able to have this meeting today so that I can come and and hear you all because this is this is what I want I you know I want to be able to hear people's voices and um I think um secondly um I think the best way probably to reach me would be by text or phone call I hope that for those of you who've reached out in that way I've I've been pretty responsive I don't know Keith maybe you can tell me tell me if like otherwise but um I so my phone number is listed on the city website I can also give it to you right now if that's easier um but my number's 240 478 um 198 um I do have some weird work hours um that fluctuate um sort of depending on what's going on in the club occasionally I have to travel for like it's it's like crisis related stuff it's like a whole um complex issue um and then in the morning I do some like freelance writing so I um I usually am working all day but um on the days that I work from home I'm pretty available um and when not I usually will have to decline a phone call but feel free to follow up with a text um and I you know I really try to be as responsive as possible in that way yeah thanks thanks Ali that's good to hear um you know you're here for us we're here for you so Sam can you uh take us how do we end this you push a button yeah okay thanks everybody thank you hopefully it will be better work nice last next time but it's been a great start I really appreciate it thank you thank you