 Senate Education May 28th and another remote hearing during the COVID emergency and Today we're going to Bop around a little bit. We're in the phase where we've started to get bills from the house we have been asked to do a drive-by of a bill by health and welfare and So we've got three different things. We're juggling Today, but I'd like to start with the lead bill Everyone will remember we spent a good amount of time on that lead bill, which is now I believe Act 66 and the Department of Health has been doing I think a fantastic job Fulfilling the mandate of that bill in terms of I believe now all child care centers are tested and we're at about 68% of schools So they were directly on target to meet the mandate of having everybody tested by the end of this year Then the COVID emergency hit So house and Senate have agreed to extend the deadline for the bill But first I was hoping that mr. Englander could give us a quick update If those percentages are correct That would be great if you could confirm that and then how are we doing in terms of the number of Sites in need of mitigation costs of mitigation so far anything you can tell us along those lines and then Jeannie do we have Michael Grady with us He's not available until three Okay, so when he gets on a three we'll have him walk us through the bill But please mr. Englander tell us anything you'd like along those lines Good afternoon. I'm delighted to be to be with you If you know despite the form it better to be together I'm grateful for the characterization of the department's work. We've been very happy and proud Of the work that's happened thus far. I will say we were actually we were well ahead of schedule That the deadline was supposed to be December 31st of this year. We actually had every school in Vermont um Scheduled to be tested at the end of the but for six schools with which we've with whom we've had some challenges Before the end of the school year and then of course in mid-march this happened, so Your so your we have 40 percent 47 percent of schools Have been tested and the results have been provided on the public website Which if people are sure everybody has spent some time on the website, which was built by an hour Which is extremely I find it to be extremely easy to use Both in getting specific information as well as this nice overall summary page that's available that's updated Well, it was being updated every few days. It's now being updated less frequently So we have 40 percent of all schools have been tested and the reports have been provided publicly and an additional 21 percent of schools had actually Collected samples and are sitting and are preserved in the public health lab. So we were approximately 4600 water samples That are that have been preserved And and because at that moment we deterred the public health lab Towards covid testing Although we do anticipate I've had some discussions with our laboratories. We do anticipate by By mid or late summer being able to turn back to turn some of the resources from the public public health lab and and start testing the samples that we've collected We have 86 percent of child cares not located within schools have been tested. So we only have a few Doesn't left at 771 child cares And So we have approximately So when I when I say I spoke to the folks who were doing this the other day all of whom were deeply involved in in the emergency response I asked how many Child care programs located within schools had yet to be tested and they said that would take a tremendous amount of digging because As a testing entity They're being treated as one. So if you have a school an electric school with the child care located within it We aren't making the distinction as a matter of testing between the two entities. It would be disaggregated when the when the data is reported The uh The amount of remediation only a few dozen entities have actually sought remediation monies On the order of just approximately 30,100 Dollars have been dispersed Which we think is a little bit low We were anticipating more More entities coming forward as remediation That might be a function of one of three things either they just they just hadn't taken the time yet and then and then covid hit it could be that They decided to bear the cost themselves because they were relatively minor But it also may be the case that there were many schools Or or child care that have chosen simply to You know to turn the taps off and or make them inaccessible if you if I I was going through I believe the representative web a few weeks ago Just randomly picking on schools and many of them when they had it when they had a tap attested above the The action limit they simply took that out of service as opposed to taking the expense of time to replace it Okay, so it's fair to say that The money we appropriated was sufficient Yes, and it looks as though it's on target To be under spent by a good amount If if things can go the way they're going today, yes Okay, all all to the good Before we move to the houses bill any questions for mr. Englander on the existing Program the lead program Okay, if I may mr. Chair actually The the rule on the on the That that's required by x-66 of 2019 Needs to be in place by november of this year, but we plan on filing it. I hope This week Okay, completely. We've had a public hearing We so we hope this would I say father I mean father with l car Or we'd be in front of l car. Hopefully within the coming weeks l car did put a stop They didn't stop they They focus their energies on on rulemaking related to covid and they have now they've now Widened that that opportunity for other agencies. Okay That sounds good All right, if we are you familiar I assume you are with the house's language. Yes Okay committee. Does everybody have the ability to pull that up at this point? Okay It's on our website It is not a It is not a long bill. It's not a complex bill. It's The findings I have been told findings were added, but it's really just a chronology of What's happened? So there there aren't really statements of fact as such just Bear bones. I'm sorry group. What's the number? I don't is it? It's uh 9 57 Oh, okay um So as you'll see it's it's just a A series of statements about this happened then this happened then this happened And then it's followed by the change in In the the due date for the completion of the work Any anything you'd like to Testify on as regards to bill itself David No, I think that um I mean, I guess I would say what I said in the house, which is that um, there is significant uncertainty We I can tell you this that the the moment that we are able to get back to this work. We want to get back to this work Yep, um my one question would be I heard from representative web that they In putting the findings together they found out that they had some inaccurate material in the findings And I'm assuming that's been corrected That's correct. So what now is correct? What what was the the issue there? The issue was actually a miscommunication between myself and staff as to the number of of child care that had been Uh, the completed testing Okay, um, because I think that's where I got the numbers I was using Uh, let's see Oh, maybe not Must have gotten it somewhere else Uh, okay any questions for mr. Englender on This bill Okay Does anybody see I mean we'll we'll have a walkthrough from eric, but it's it's pretty straightforward. Does anybody see any Issues that aren't necessarily clear in what's there Okay, all right. Well, thank you very much mr. Englender. I I guess uh Eric will be with us in about 15 minutes So feel free to stay with us If you like we'll pick it up then if you want to I don't know if it's even possible to pop back in But we'll move to another bill now as long as we're uh I will take myself off of audio and video, but I will keep in here out. Okay, right. Thank you Okay, so this looks like a a no-brainer to me I think the language looks fine I do believe we need permission to vote it out So what what we can do is if we're satisfied today I'll tell uh center rash that we need a meeting of the rules committee And indicate that we're behind the bill and we want to vote it out And get it over to the governor So With that said, why don't we um Since we have another witness on the school construction bill I'd prefer not to Make mr. Gone wait through Uh another bill if he doesn't have to so Um Michael gone. Why don't we move to the school construction bill h209? And uh, I know you are one of the witnesses That the house heard testimony from if you could just introduce yourself and give your um professional affiliation Uh, we we'd love to hear what you say about that particular bill Sure. Well, thank you for having me here. Uh, like I say, I thought it'd be useful for you all to hear what Kind of an updated presentation I gave from that in the house side when this is being considered Michael gone. I'm the executive director of the Vermont bond bank and um As you may or may not know, we uh facilitate financing for The majority of vermont's communities both through our pool loan program and through our Work in coordination with the department of environmental conservation on the clean water and drinking water stay revolving funds So I did have some materials. Um, I don't know, uh, we have them up Okay, you have them up. So is it easier if I just reference the slide that I'm discussing? I I think it's easier that way. Okay. Okay. I'll move forward that way then So, uh, I guess it's a precursor to starting this. Um, you know, we're following as closely as we can the, uh Uh changes at the ground level as as people consider capital project people being school districts consider capital projects Um, you know, there was obviously a flurry of activity on this topic Into late february and then as we all know the world went on hold. So, um After I saw that you all were sort of um thinking through this issue I I worked to try and update my numbers as best I could based a lot of it are our estimates and some Kind of analyzing some work that the vermont superintendent's association has done As so the projections, you know, our projections their best estimates. So I just say that as a um, as kind of a ashtray to to what I'll discuss but The reason I thought it'd be helpful to speak with you all today is just to provide some context as to the school construction issue Because I think it it really helps as you um, sort of consider this new First step towards getting to handle and what our capital needs are So, um on slide two here the the starting point for um Us the bond bank and in a lot of ways kind of the the start of the issue that we faced today Corresponds with the bond bank. We were created in 1969 1970 This followed a period of school construction spending around the state that we understand to be was primarily financed with short-term borrowing at that point Folks were looking for a way to provide a long-term financing solution For those those capital projects and then following our creation in 1971 We did our first bond issue And then used those proceeds to make loans to local school districts And the first bond issue was entirely comprised of school districts Um, and the I think the the second and most of the third bond issue were were comprised of school districts So, um, you know, that was about 50 years ago. Uh, and so in a lot of cases You know, the buildings have been discussed as being, you know, needing upgrades or or are have functional issues as a result of their age And you know, a lot of the buildings correspond with this time period in the in the bond banks history Fast-forward to today, uh our portfolio consists of about, um You know 500 and it fluctuates depending on the time of year, but just say 550 million 36 of that is currently comprised of school districts About 200 and well 211 million in uh outstanding loans to school districts So the next slide is going to walk through a progression here. So they all they all build on each other, but uh slide three is, um historic activity related to the bond bank only in terms of bond issuance or loans made to local local school districts and that's shown in gray on slide three The blue is um school construction aid. Uh, that was provided to us by the, uh uh jlfo and then the the orange are, um Authorized bond projects, uh that have not been issued and and we believe that to be comprehensive, but you know, I'm I haven't done a Survey of everywhere everyone and um, this is based upon news reporting So I believe it to capture everyone we know about. Uh, we're we're in close contact with everybody, but I just say that as a caveat So this important distinction between this slide and the in the subsequent slides is that this is in, uh, nominal dollars So dollars that have not been adjusted for inflation and I think this is sort of the picture of the school. Um You know, the school facilities need that we under that we sort of perceive and that, uh, you know The amount today is so much more In terms of it's so much more than what we've seen over say the last 10 10 to 20 years And um, and that's certainly true Uh, but I think What I wanted to do is just sort of put it in perspective by showing what this looks like on an inflation adjusted basis Which is what's shown on slide four And then it starts to tell a little bit of a different story. Um, and that the numbers today, although are are very large Are, um, are are a little bit more consistent with, uh, the historical experience and in particular going back to the start of the bond bank in 1970s early 1970s, um You know, uh Find I guess historical reference in that time period and now 50 years later You know, these facilities are sort of nearing the end of their useful lives and that's why Uh, you know Folks that are that are in the facilities business engineers architects facilities managers, etc Understand us to be in sort of a generational moment where, um, we need to think through these issues Um, and so obviously, you know, why the bond bank is interested, uh, we've got to manage our portfolio in terms of overall Sort of allocation to our different borrower types be they local government school districts or special districts of one type or another and then our overall exposure to, um any one particular Or borrower that that we don't want to overwhelm the portfolio. And so, um, that's why we've a real vested interest in in understanding the conversations around, uh, what is the size of the need for for, um, construction funding and, uh, and like the treasurer mentioned on tuesday really kind of disaggregate or, um, sort of, um, Uh, you know, separating this concept of funding versus financing. We're a financing agency. Um, you know, we're not a funding agency And so that that has consequences as well um, so just building on this progression on slide, uh, five is, um What you've seen already with the addition of, uh, planned or proposed projects. Um, That that that we that we know about so, you know, the number may be bigger It may be a little bit smaller, but at least back in the start of this year This is sort of the universe that we got our hands around between our work Fielding inquiries about cost of financing and the survey work of the vermont superintendent's association So important caveat here the dark green on the far right side of the graph, uh, are two includes two projects that were Voted down, uh in early march Um, but you know, they they will probably morph and change in some sort of way, but they're but you know, they're probably not going away Although the number may be smaller so um So I think this the barbells in this graph really show this sort of concept that we're at a generational moment As the the life of those older um facilities from the early 70s reaches an endpoint I haven't you know, I haven't uh I wasn't around at the time my understanding is that some of the high points in the mid 90s were related to some of the um uh, the the technical facilities um But uh But we have the data on that but but sort of you know, that's that's where I I think we are so Um, you know just to kind of summarize here on an inflation adjusted basis Our total historic issuance over the last 50 years at the bond bank Um has been 1.6 million Um, you know, we understand there to be oh, and that also includes authorized projects So mostly the bond bank, but it also includes things like um city of burlington uh, Wynuski school district and a few other Bond votes that were approved back in back in march And then you compare that to what we understand to be proposed or in planning processes And about 550 million so, um You know, so so very significant so in terms of the bond bank, you know, that that number could overwhelm our portfolio pretty quickly depending upon the timing So we we really need help, uh in this process in a Kind of a prioritization process um methodological way to understand what the future pipeline will look like and then You know in coordination with the general assembly and others You know investigating possible ways that that if needed we we might provide financing Um, and and I would just add to this and uh, and then I'll stop stop talking the last slide You know another reason why I think This matters at this point in time Is um, obviously you have the budgetary considerations Due to cobit and I think it's no Everyone's expectation that either at the voter level or at the education fund level You know, there's going to be pressures on education spending So developing efficiencies through facilities is Is very important. Uh, and then you know slide six, um sort of speaks to some historical, uh example back in the Great recession, um, you know school school Construction was an area of focus for aura the american recovery and reinvestment act I understand that the the heroes act that past the house doesn't necessarily include You know school construction infrastructure is mostly finance or excuse me focused on broadband Um, but certainly you could see a scenario where there is some Uh federal stimulus surrounding Social and physical infrastructure in which case I think it would be important for us as a state to Be organized so that we can take advantage is the advantage of whatever program come down comes down the line And that's certainly what we did last time. Uh, there was a program called qualified school construction bonds that effectively was a zero percent interest rate for Schools that took advantage of the program and the bond bank helped facilitate that Uh in three separate issuances And if but for sequestration those borrowers have a zero percent interest loans on their Facilities financing So that's that's just that's everything that I wanted to share. I I um I think that accurately summarized everything, but I think the historical look at the issue is is valuable as we Gear up some resources towards thinking about the future, which we would highly encourage We're muted Not sure whether you've seen the houses bill um, I have 209 does it Does it, uh, you know dovetail with what you you say your institution needs Yeah, we're not, you know, we're not in the weeds on the facilities planning and the actual um engineering construction side But I think uh, you know, generally, um Getting assistance having getting everyone's heads around this issue. Uh, is it a billion dollars of work? Is it two billion or is it 500 million? I think that is just a really critical question And uh, we'll inform our efforts to assist in the process going forward. So that's You know, that's the largest consideration from our perspective. Just what is the what is the the number overall? Yep uh questions for mr. Gullin Uh first senator hardy then senator perchley Thank you. Um, michael, thank you for your testimony. This is helpful background information I'm wondering you mentioned in this last slide you have a slide comparing the current situation to the era funds that came out after the Great recession and while we have no idea of school construction will ever be on the table from the feds The bill 209 I believe has a planning process that drags out for like three and a half years Is that right some some long period of time? So, uh, that would probably be longer than is necessary to have sort of shovel ready information If we're you know next year might get lucky and have federal funding So do you see any way to speed up that sort of planning process at this point? You know, I can't speak. I know I've been sort of involved in the conversations with the architects And I think there's a few different methodologies about how you Evaluate facilities, but that's obviously not my area of expertise Um, what is my area of expertise to sort of the timeline? You know identify the project? Uh pass a pass a bond vote if that is in fact the way and and um, and then you know Pass pass that bond vote at a number that is realistic based upon some architecture and engineering work and and that stuff takes time So, uh, so I think getting started as soon as possible is probably the right the right idea and just one One follow-up I mean assuming that all of this need that we that is out there is actually I don't know how to say it legitimate need um I think I heard you say that it the need would overwhelm your capacity to issue bonds So it sounds like you need to do it over a more Gradual basis. Is that correct? Did I understand that correct? Uh in the current framework is I guess the way I characterize that so, um You know we like any lender there's only so much we can give to anyone entity based upon the size of the portfolio diversity is really important So we have a We have a structure that we use now that's been developed over the last 50 years that is very That is that work that functionally works because of the set of assumptions we were dealing with if there's you know X amount of dollars that are That of need that need to be financed Now that sort of makes that uh framework Somewhat not obsolete but just not useful for this particular issue So I think this funding versus financing question is essential because I think this is really Really a funding problem in a lot of ways and once we understand that we can say yes We can be helpful working with the treasure obviously or Under the existing framework or we need to develop, you know a new mousetrap to sort of solve the financing problem But prioritization of what the projects are what is the funding source? What's the level of? Of approval process that that occurs from DOE or others This would all be questions. We'd want to have answered prior to developing any new mousetrap or evaluating whether our existing Uh program is appropriate Thank you Senator perchley Yes, thank you. So I I guess my basic question is of the Bond issuance is how much has the municipal bond Bank done are you doing 90% of what's happening like on these graphs this graphs is total bond issuance is not just the bond bank, right? Uh, this is well on the history. So the gray The gray bars on the graphs Those are the bond bank I think It's impossible for us to know what our overall sort of uh amount of projects financed is um short of looking through You know asking every single school district what they've financed and who they did it with but we assume are it to be very high I'd say upwards of 90% um in aggregate So I think you're getting a very fair look at uh at the activity historically Okay Thanks Okay, uh So one question I have is I I hear you expressing support for the house's language. Is there anything that we Might or or should add to what the house has in terms of Your needs the ultimate needs around the bond issues Not from my perspective at this time. I I really more than anything else just wanted to encourage the You know the passage of of something that gets at the the need and the and the planning That does that would that would really be the takeaway message from our perspective Okay, great. Well, I appreciate that very much the historical information is always really useful um I look at it and it it says to me that as you put it we're in a We're in a pivot period again where We have to replace our buildings and it's going to happen Without state guidance of any sort if we don't do something so I I appreciate that So if there's no further questions from the committee Uh, feel free to stay with us if you like mr. Gahn otherwise feel free to drop out, but We'll shift back now to our lead delay bill Uh, because I believe we have michael grady Uh Mike are you with us and non video participant Yeah, there we go. I'm here. I'm on video. Okay Welcome, so this is going to be the easiest work you'll do all day. I think but I I want to be able to say that we uh, we were walked through the house's lead delay bill So, uh, if if you want to just take us through that and anything that's not Visible to the to the naked eye that we might miss or Any issues that came up around the drafting of scheduling or anything like that? Sure. Do you want me to share my screen? Or uh, no, we we've all got it up. I think oh, okay All right, so generally as you know last year x 66 required schools and childcare facilities to sample Drinking water outlets to determine The lead levels in the drinking water the testing Was required to be is required to be completed by december 31st of 2020 But the x 66 also required that The sampling occur while students were in the building so that real time Actual lead levels would be tested When students were present Because schools are closed under the governor's order And some are as soon upon us and there's uncertainty as to when Students will be back in classrooms The department has asked for an extension of one year To complete sampling in schools and childcare facilities The one issue that came up was whether or not one year is too long Whether or not the department could complete it by the december 31st 2020 deadline or not The department when they asked for the extension said that they will in all good faith try to complete the sampling and testing as soon as possible But they believe because of the uncertainty and because of the shift of their staff that have been working on program to covet 19 issues that Uh, it would be practical to give them an additional year in order to complete the full testing So most of the bill is a finding section that relates to what i just told you so Act 66 requires the department of health to administer A program to test drinking water in school buildings and childcare facilities for lead contamination x 66 requires testing To be completed on a report december 31st 2020 As of march of 2020 sampling for lead in the drinking water of 86 percent of all standalone childcare facilities complete And 68 percent of all schools have completed sampling Act 66 requires samples for school buildings to occur during the school year in order to test the composition of drinking water When students are present On march 15th governor scott issued the directive dismissing all public and independent schools On march 17th governor scott issued the directive closing off state regulated childcare facilities except for those for essential persons On march 26 2020 governor scott issued directive five directing all public and independent schools to remain dismissed For in-person instruction for the remainder of the school year And because of the dismissal and because of the closure of childcare facilities and because of the uncertainty when students will return To instruction within school buildings It is likely that testing of drinking water in all school buildings and childcare facilities will not be completed on or before december 31st 2020 department of health staff assigned to administer the requirements Poor testing of drinking water for lead in school buildings have been assigned to cova 19 response testing and health surveillance And then last in order to allow schools sufficient time to test drinking water for lead When students are present to allow child Facilities to complete testing and drinking water for lead and to allow department of health staff to return to administration school drinking Water testing program the general assembly should delay until december 31st 2021 The deadline for testing in school buildings and childcare facilities and then you'll see section two The deadline was uh extended from december 31st 2020 to december 31st 2021 The act would take effect on passage So that is a ready-made floor report For whoever whoever reports this I I I have no questions. It looks very straightforward to me Any questions for uh mike by anyone on the committee? Okay, mike. I said that would be your easiest job all day I I think that's all we need Um, okay, and mr. Englinder anything you want to add I'm here for questions if you'd like I don't think we have any So committee is it uh, am I reading you correctly that this would be a unanimous vote? Yes, okay So I will contact the rules committee tell them that we'd like to vote it out on tuesday and that'll Put it on the calendar for Wednesday maybe or Wednesday or thursday so we can pass it back to the house next week Which is great. So thank you mike. Thank you david englinder Okay, what's that? Would it go back to them or we're just oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, we haven't made any changes so we can go right onto the governor Okay, so let's then Flip to our third bill of the day and debbie I'm not sure do we have a copy of that bill somewhere Uh, I think we just need to search forward on the you know web system Yeah, it's 663 663 right um I'm just Or s H6 An act relating to expanding access to contraceptives So debbie, do you want to just um Tell everybody the auspices under which we're asked to look at this Sure. Yeah, so uh, this is a bill that was done by the house human services committee and it's come to Senate health and welfare It it pertains to um expanding access to uh condoms specifically and uh, there are four sections of it that uh touch on um Either distribution in schools or something something to do with uh with schools. Um so um center lines asked me to kind of bring this to The education committee's attention and then you know, of course if you want more information katey mclin is the lege council attorney who drafted it um I can just The sections that pertain there as I said they're four so first the first one is a section three of the bill which is on a Um six Oh, I I'm looking at the unofficial house version Oh, I was looking as passed by house Shouldn't we look at the one that the house passed? Yeah, I thought that was I thought that's the one I had Yeah, it's passed by the house. I have unofficial Yeah, the unofficial one just has doesn't have the um the red strike out It's easier to read the unofficial one Okay Okay So section three Section three. Yeah, so this is um, this changes the definition In all of title 16 vsa. Um, whereas before Um, it had been the definition of comprehensive health education um previously This definition had only pertained to a sub chapter of 16 vsa, which is the education You know title So really that it simply just uh applies this same definition to the whole whole Very and the nothing else about the definition has Okay Okay Yeah, and okay, then moving on to section four Which is uh on page seven um So this is um, this is um the part where um, it Requires schools um secondary schools which in our definition in, uh, in vermont is grade seven through 12 to um To supply Shall make condoms available to all its students free of charge And it's very similar to what we worked on with the feminine hygiene products in that it leaves it up to the school's discretion as to how to How to provide them So it's administrators working with school nursing staff Shall determine the best manner in which to make the condoms available And at a minimum replace in locations that are safely readily accessible to students including the school nurses office Okay, so somebody could at a minimum only have them in the nurses office Yes, that's okay um So the question is really Do we want to make well Do we want to just indicate That we don't want to work on this. It's fine with us Do we want to indicate that we Do want to work on it if we see some need for alteration um Right, I mean that's what center lion said if you you know, if I mean there are two more sections I I still need to go through just okay, but this is the meat of it But but that yeah, that's the question. Do we want to actually look at it formally and Or do we want to just say let you go ahead and do what you want and help them welfare? I think well, let's look at the other two sections of the normal Yeah, okay. Yeah, so the next one is section six Which starts on page eight And so what this this is about um the mandated reporters who? Uh report about child abuse and neglect and so what this does is create an exemption from um You know if it's that there's no requirement if a student takes a condom There's no there's no assumption that there's that that is pertains to Demandated requirements Okay So all these people can just let them do it and there's no in other words knowledge that they're potentially sexually active is not Okay And then section 10 is the last one And that is on page well And this asks for a uh for um This is asked for a report on number four january 15th 2021 um, it's a joint report by the agency of education and the department of health to um house human services and education and senate health and welfare and education Regarding their continued efforts to support schools and school districts in providing comprehensive health education Which must include sexual health and safety Okay so any any Questions from anybody on any of that for debbie having uh debbie Been in on the discussions and health and welfare. Yeah, ruth Can we just go back to the section about the mandatory of reporting? I just wanted to make sure I was clear that It just means that Seeing a student take a condom from the nurse's office is not a cause for reporting Child abuse or anything like that that it's okay to see a kid take a condom and you don't need to report it to anybody Correct, okay All right, anybody else Yeah, jim and then andi Yeah, i'm not good with wasting uh taxpayers money to buy uh uh condoms for uh our youth Whether they're reporting or not reporting uh I just think that's a waste of uh hard-earned money and their money could be spent Uh in other places such as maybe school lunches or Breakfasts for kids that are hungry more than the need to buy contraceptives for Our school children Okay, definitely finance is always an issue debbie. Was there a fiscal note on this? There is not yet. So I when there is one I can Let you know if if we don't take it Okay, so that that Might be a reason for us to work on it or it might be a reason for Jim to vote against it on the floor andi Uh on the reporting. I thought it was the way I read it It's more than just you saw someone take a contraceptive like you're providing it to them You know, they could have asked you for one and then you give them to them It's not just you happen to see see them grab it Well, that's a good point. Yeah, just say to provide, you know So I would think that would be the nurse unless Yeah, let's say you had a I mean, I can see other issues that might arise but let's say you had a 10th grade teacher that decided to have a bowl of condoms in the classroom Um And was not part of this plan They wouldn't run a foul of the mandated reporter thing, but they might run a foul of other You know Codes or procedures within the individual school district Yeah, that was part of our concern and health and welfare. We started talking about we wanted to hear from some districts that you know, we figured certainly that there would be some that are being more comfortable with this than others Well, that's why I asked whether or not having the nurse supply them exclusively could pass muster because I think most districts in vermont would would probably be okay with Uh, a small dish of them in the in the nurse's office as opposed to wider distribution Not saying all because I think jim's point, uh, you know Would not be uncommon Uh, that it that it was an expense that that we the taxpayers shouldn't be taking on So now that we know the scope of it and the and the basic range How many feel that we should Exert some sort of influence over the bill as it moves Versus just letting it go under health and welfare and then either voting for against it on the floor So let me go to the first question first just show of hands How many think we should take it in and do some kind of work on it even if we didn't do it formally? Okay, nobody. So everybody else, uh, just show of hands believes that we should just leave it to health and welfare okay great, um, so Uh, debbie if you want to tell jenny that we um took a look at it. I'll I'll just say My own opinion is that it looks fine to me The only question I have and I hope you'll take this Um back to jenny just as a thought experiment and I'll put it out to the committee for the same thought experiment I have been thinking the last few days about our feminine hygiene products legislation This could very easily be amended on the floor Um, although there might be a call about your mainness But since this deals with distribution of products in schools It seems as though we might be able to survive a challenge on germane this too um, that would involve a discussion probably with Senator ash the rules committee, but um, that would help us move a piece of what we had in the miscellaneous school Any thoughts on that Yeah, I mean we've I think we want to speak to the house human services um Because this does I mean the other sections of this bill actually pertain to Ways to make the contraceptives more accessible in other settings. It's not just You know schools no understood But if we're looking for a vehicle to To move things along At least the only estimate I've heard about when we'll actually break Uh, this time is june 19th Which gives us three more weeks Which is not a lot of time So if if there is a a fit and I wouldn't want to do it over the objections of health and welfare. So Um debbie, maybe you could do counter liaison work and show them our Feminine hygiene products Sure. Well, and I think senator line sponsored that anyway didn't she Yeah, so so just sound her out on that uh ruth you you had a question I just wanted it Isn't it something that health and welfare could just put in the bill if they liked it and it wouldn't even have to be a floor amendment Yes, uh, which I think would be great. I just didn't want to presume that they would So any would anybody have big objections if we um brought out the feminine hygiene project products language Okay, and our miscellaneous bill, right? I mean, that's where we put it. Yep Um, which which is in a holding pattern itself. I'd like maybe next week to pull that language out again Given where we are now And just take another quick look at it. Is there anything else we want to? um Go forward with Do you remember what the bill number is? Sorry, I do not know debbie Ruth Yeah, I just want to know I think in that bill also there is actually a section that's pertaining to the comprehensive health education language Yeah, it doesn't change that language, but it also makes the little tweaks So if we were to pull that bill out debbie, you might want to look at that section too and see if it's relevant or Contradicts or whatever. Yeah Okay, so um We don't have becky wasserman and The school construction bill is still in ways and means I did speak with representative web about it I told her that we've had very supportive testimony from uh, the secretary from the treasurer now from the bond bank um As well as the architects that were advising them So I have to say my own Opinion the bill has improved a great deal I I think now that the house's focus is probably a good one which is on procuring a apples to apples um data bank of the schools around the state getting a handle on the overall need None of those experts seem to balk at the price tag as We had But I still think our number one concern was timing That it was gonna it was going to hold things out for a three to five year interval So what I'd like to do is On tuesday take that up again Have becky wasserman in with us and see if there isn't a way that we could get something moving The the agency does have a program now. They just You know, you can now submit requests to the agency for Our assistance It's just that they don't tend to green light any of them So maybe there's a way to use their existing bank of requests To see if we can't get something moving Maybe the most high priority of the projects they already have I don't know just spitballing, but there should be a way to get something underway prior to the development of this list But I think that's all we'll need to do today So unless anybody has further business Is it Ruth then debbie And then andy Thanks, I just wanted to let you guys know about a conversation we're having in senate ag That we discussed this morning About food security issues And we're thinking about this as part of our larger ag relief bill And it involves some school food issues As well as other things and debbie Chris pierce and was going to reach out to jenny about this as well Because it would also involve like meals on wheels for senior citizens and the vermont food bank Request for funding But specific to this committee is we're trying to figure out a way to get some more money out the door for summer Meals for the so that schools can continue to provide broader summer lunch and meals for kids And So we're working on language. My glow grady is actually drafting it and I would want to just bring it to this committee to have us take a look at it and make sure everybody Feels comfortable with it and we were hoping to get sort of buy in the ag committee Was hoping to get buy in from the education committee the health and welfare committee and the economic development committee on a sort of food security Package that we hope would qualify for the crf funding But just wanted to let you know that there's a piece about school meals and school food service workers We we are focusing on the summer right now because that's the biggest issue Most of the school food service contracts end on june 15th when most schools close So wanting to get something so that places that do want to do summer programs And and can do it and have the resources. So just an update and hopefully next week. I'll have more information So ruth whenever that language is ready for us to look at just schedule it with genie Okay for the next the next hearing Okay, and we'll because it doesn't sound like it'll take a long A long time. So we'll fit it in whenever the language is ready Yeah, i'm i'm assuming everybody will be good with it, but just wanted to make sure that Everyone has a chance to weigh in Yep, debbie. You had something I did. Yeah. Um back to the school construction, uh bill Did we talk about where the one and a half million Would come from is that from the ed fund or from the capital With the capital bill Yeah, I have a feeling that uh the ed fund I know that's what the house is working on um I think that makes sense And there's no way it would call that for any federal money yet. Is there like you always I always like to go to that pot first. Yeah, I I I still think that the uh, you know The air exchange systems the hVAC systems and all of that all of that expense including Planning around changing that Or or any potential You know consultations that we have It seems like all of that should be able to be covered But I think here we're talking more about deferred maintenance. That's you know 10 20 years of historical Duration, so it's hard to make the case that COVID but you know i'm i'm up for it if if they can make it work in jf um So andy you also had something right? Yeah on that bill. I was going to try to work on some language on the ventilation Stuff i've had further conversations With some folks norm and others About things that we thought could be cares Eligible that could happen quickly. They would be small things You know not not getting to the deferred maintenance and replacing whole systems that would take too much time But there could be some a small grant program That just like a reimburses costs for for updating their filters and you know very simple things like that could be You know five to twenty thousand dollar grants or something like that. So I was Hoping to do that and wondering you know if the committee thought that was worth the effort It seemed like that bill would be the vehicle for it unless there's Also some cares vehicle that operations would do I think it would be great and I think it's a very Andy assignment Because your your expertise It seems to me lies around that sort of thing I I guess There's a part of me that feels like It shouldn't be that hard to For a we to put out an urgent email To all school districts and say If you believe that you have Uh an h-fax system that needs complete replacement That is has already you know been proven to be in need of replacement Why we can't get those names to aoe And then have norm or somebody else Go out do an inspection And then have aoe green light that work And tell them it has to be done by December 31st like I'm I know that ordinarily there would be all kinds of barriers and deadlines and You know delays, but in this case air circulation systems don't even seem to me to be ambiguous that should be completely covered um, and so Missing the chance to do full replacements is just seems to me like It's it's one thing if there's nobody that Can demonstrate within the amount of time that they need it but it seems like you know I I would bet my money on norm to be able to go into the school In fact, if you gave him a list of 10 he could probably do it in a week and come back and say eight of these need full replacement and then You know as we've done with PPEs and ventilators and other things Like make it happen Yeah, and there are some schools that have already gone through the process of getting bids They just don't have any money. You know, so they they already know kind of what it would cost. So That's the challenge is like how do we How do we Do it so that it can be happened quickly and get through all the normal bureaucratic red tape And what are the boundaries so we can come up with a dollar number kind of thing. Yeah, Ruth yeah, I Mean in large part. I agree. I think that some things we do need to consider though or one I think norm said in his testimony that a lot of times these systems are tied into other systems in the school and that when you're ripping out the Ventilation system, you might also be dealing with the lighting system or you might find asbestos or you might have I don't know drywall issues. There are all just like other issues that you know once you start a construction project it balloons So I think we just need to keep that in mind and then the second issue Is that because we have so many school buildings that are in really really bad shape if we go in and Put in a shiny new ventilation system, but the plate the but it needs a roof and there's uh, you know mold in the basement or whatever whether or not We are putting a band-aid on something that either should have a full fix or should maybe not be a school building anymore You know so wanting to just be careful that we're investing the money in buildings that We want around for the long term versus those that should be taken out of commission No, good good points I I guess what I would say is if we don't do it by December 31st We won't be wasting Well, then we will be wasting the government, you know, the federal government's money Um, and we will be on the hook ourselves On down the road But andy maybe as you are working on that language you could think, you know Are there Can we determine quickly whether there are schools where it would be Both necessary and possible to replace the systems altogether The the really expensive jobs that we you know, even if we could get One or two of them done That might be millions of dollars that would otherwise, you know Potentially get shipped back to washington if we can't find a covet related Use for it But I would be delighted to have you work on that andy Try to report back by Tuesday and then one other thing on that bill There's the first part of the bill is then creating standards because that the for the consultant to go out and do The analysis of what buildings need what work. They'll need to have a benchmark You know, that's like these are the standards. We're judging it by And that's that's a difficult task going to seem That aoe was saying that they might need staff to get to that first part. So Just as if we take up the bill, that's another issue that I think needs to be discussed a little bit more Okay Well, thanks everybody. Um, I think that gives us, uh Three or four different things to work on next week So we have our two highest priority bills, which were the The adjustments to the health care bargaining and the reorganization of the state board Are both over in the house The health care bargaining bill is in house general With tom stevens And obviously the state board reorg will go to house ed And so i'm not i'm not sure at this point what will happen with either bill But um, I think it's great that we were finally able to move those As I say, I would like to take a look at the miscellaneous bill next week If there's anything that anybody is Interested in doing now that we're back More or less to a business uh Not business as usual but a A standard business frame alongside the emergency frame Let me know because as I say we only have a couple more weeks Before we'll take a break When we come back in august, I believe the intention is to have Mostly the the budget driving The discussion at that point not that we wouldn't be able to move something but time will be short. I think So with that said, thanks everybody, I'll see you tomorrow in the Senate floor And uh, and if I don't talk to you then have a great weekend My friends, thanks