 with Liam, Liam has, are we still in stage one of the objectives movement? What would classify a stage two? So stage one is, Ignomance of, stage two would be denial and stage three is acceptance. It depends on what you mean by stage one and stage two and stage three. But I think it's still early, put it that way. I think the culture has absorbed a lot of objectivism. The culture has absorbed a lot of iron rand, a lot of good things about objectivism. Well, everything's about objectivism is good, but a lot of fragments of objectivism, if you will, of the objectivism is a system, but elements of objectivism have been integrated somewhat into the culture and into thinking. The fourth system has not been, the full integration is not, there are pieces of it out there, pieces of reason and rationality where iron rand has really had an impact, but there's still a lot of work to do. We're still very early, there's still just not enough objectivists and primarily there's just not enough objectivist intellectuals. It's much more prevalent now than it was in any time in history. There's a lot more activity, there's a lot more content, there's a lot more things going on, there are a lot more people involved. It's not even on the same ballpark as the 1960s where it was iron rand and Nathaniel Brandon now granted they were giants, particularly iron rand, and there's no giants of their scope anymore then there was Lenin Pekoff and other giant and there's no giant like Lenin Pekoff anymore, but then there were a lot of mini giants, a lot of really, really good people, many more now than there were back then. People, the intellectuals today put aside Brandon, Lenin and maybe some of the Harry and some others. I think the intellectuals today who are objectivist are much more knowledgeable about objectivism, but yeah, I think it's much bigger than it was, much more substantial, much more influential than it was. All that work that iron rand and Lenin Pekoff and to some extent Nathaniel Brandon did in 1960s and 70s influenced the culture, changed the culture already and it's going to change the culture even more in the future. It was never on national television back then, it was almost never on national television and to the extent that it was, it was iron rand and iron rands of course not around but I've been on television, if I can say so, I've been on television more than iron rand was, not as good obviously, not as influential obviously, but have been, it's not an issue, but iron rand now often appears in different TV series where there was Mad Man or Dirty Dancing, one of her books appeared, the characters, the shows that was at the animated show, the Pixar did that was clearly influenced by ideas from Iron Rand, even the director said so, didn't necessarily do a good job of it, but heavily answered, you know, Rand was in Johnny Carson, yeah, three times, it's amazing. And she was on other big shows, but all right, television was very different back then, you had long shows where people talked, all no shows like that anymore. And in terms of shows that number of people watch, look at some of the places that objectivists have been interviewed, look at the influence Alex Epstein is having, look at the number of places he's been, you know, people he's talked to, shows he's been on, it truly is amazing how much reach objectivism is having today I think much more reach than it had in the 1960s. And Iron Rands books are selling more today than they sold in the 1960s. Thank you for listening or watching the Iran Book Show. If you'd like to support the show, we make it as easy as possible for you to trade with me. You get value from listening, you get value from watching, show your appreciation. You can do that by going to iranbrookshow.com slash support by going to Patreon, subscribe star locals and just making a appropriate contribution on any one of those, any one of those channels. Also, if you'd like to see the Iran Book Show grow, please consider sharing our content and of course subscribe, press that little bell button right down there on YouTube so that you get an announcement when we go live. And for those of you who are already subscribers and those of you who are already supporters of the show, thank you, I very much appreciate it.