 Welcome. Aloha. Happy holidays. Thanks for joining us on Think Tech Hawaii. It's that time of year. We are depending on and seeking support from any and all of you who are willing and able to do so. Just click on, click on, or click, thinktechhawaii.com. Click and click and click the little donate button and whatever you're willing to do is sincerely appreciated. So today we have with us from the University of Hawaii Richardson School of Law, Professor Troy Andrade, from the Mitchell Hamlin School of Law, Professor David Larson, also the Media Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution. And one of the people who has put together not only a fantastic online dispute resolution program in New York courts that has exponentially expanded access to justice there, but also some guidelines for the use of online dispute resolution and technology that are very timely in these times. And Tamon Pichello, my fellow Think Tech Hawaii host and Rock and Tour manabout town. So welcome all of you. Today's starting topic and who knows where we'll go from there is unsung heroes. Troy, would you like to start us off? Sure. So thanks again, Chuck, for having me. It's really a pleasure. When you asked if I had any ideas on topics, I thought about all the folks who were out there who don't get a lot of recognition, right? And this season of thanks, you know, we got to be thankful for everyone. And I teach torts. And in one of my classes, we were talking about these cases where women were taking these pills and it was a negligence claim and the injuries didn't manifest themselves until years later in these women's children. And this was an incident that happened actually across the country. And there were really interesting causation issues that you can remember from from tort law. But I asked my students if they knew who Patsy Mink was because Patsy Mink, she actually went through a situation like this herself. And surprisingly, to me, there's only two students that raised their hand in my large torts one outclass of people, most of whom are from Hawaii. And so it's been on the top of my mind, sort of these unsung heroes that maybe we take for granted, right? So for me, one of my unsung heroes is Patsy Mink. I grew up, I think there are people who know her story, but there clearly are a lot of people who don't know her story. She was born and raised here on the island of Maui. And she grew up in a small plantation village and was told by everyone that she couldn't do what she wanted to do, except her parents and her family. Her family was there to kind of support her. She graduated top of her class, class president in high school, had everything you needed to go to med school, which she wanted to do, and was denied at every single med school she applied to. Because of that, she said, one of her mentors said, why don't you try law school? So on a whim, she did. And she got admitted to the University of Chicago Law on the foreign quota, despite Hawaii being a territory at the time. She got admitted on the foreign quota and really was a rock star at the University of Chicago Law School. Abner Mikva was her classmate, along with another eventual justice Ed Nakamura here in Hawaii. Came back to Hawaii after graduating from University of Chicago and could not get a job anywhere. So again, face discrimination at every step of the way. No one would hire her because she was a woman. She was denied admission to med school because she was a woman. Did she stop? That didn't stop her. She hung up her own shingles and did some family law, some criminal law, and then eventually got involved in politics here in Hawaii. Got involved in the Democratic Party here in Hawaii and became a member of the territorial legislature. Eventually ran for and became the first woman of color elected to Congress in the entire history of this country. She was the first woman of color to be elected. Served two stints in Congress and was a pretty, she was tenacious. She had a grit to her that intimidated a lot of people. But she knew what she wanted to do and she really served as as Danny and I would say, sort of the conscience of the delegation. She wasn't afraid to kind of push the envelope and ensure that everybody knew what was right and what was wrong and that her way was always generally right. And she was a brilliant tact, you know, tactician. She knew how to woo members of both sides of the political party to get what, you know, to get to move the needle. Maybe not all the way where she wanted to go, but to move the needle in increments. And, you know, that's something we're missing nowadays in our political world. But she was a brilliant legal mind and I'll stop there as one of my my unsung heroes, Patsy Mink. Well, a couple of things worth mentioning just in addition. So the pharmaceutical you were talking about Troy, was that Thalidomide? I was DES. Oh, okay. It was another problematic drug for women that created a lot of strict liability problems for many, many years. Some of us are old enough to remember. But if you were going to pick one legislative area achievement that Patsy Mink was instrumental and wouldn't have happened without her, that truly makes her a heroine for all of us. Would it be Title IX? I think, you know, a lot of people associate her with Title IX and she definitely played a huge role in drafting it, but also protecting it over the years. One, you know, one thing that's often forgotten about her, what I generally will call her legacy is sort of the importance she played on freedom of information. So it wasn't, you know, we had FOIA back then, but it really didn't have teeth in it. And it was because of Patsy Mink that she filed a lawsuit against the EPA. And because of that litigation, you really now have some, some teeth, not a whole lot, but a lot more teeth than it did before in the Freedom of Information Act, which really led to government transparency that we see today. So that's one area that, you know, a little bit unknown by folks, but that Patsy Mink was really instrumental about. Another one was sort of the role that she played in highlighting the really the significant harm that the United States military was doing in Micronesia, in the bombing of Micronesia and different atolls and the harm that is done to communities in the Pacific. And she wrote a law review article actually years ago that talked about the ways in which all of these problems are going to get exacerbated over time. She was talking about sea level, she was talking about people having to move and where they're going to come, they're first going to come to Hawaii, which she represented because of the similarities, but that's going to put pressure on Hawaii. And we have to be ready to deal with that if we don't take care of things back in the 70s. So she was talking about things she was ahead of her time. Fantastic. David, who might be among your choices for unsung heroes? I've been thinking about this group now because as some of you may recall, back in September, Minnesota had the largest nurse's strike in American history. 15,000 nurses walked out and they put a cap on their strike for three months. They've been negotiating since September and they've had no resolution. So today, they voted to strike again. And this time they said in the Twin Cities, they'll strike until the end of December. It'll be a three week strike. And other parts of Minnesota are joining their 16 hospitals, Duluth, Two Harbors, different locations around. Some of those have no cap on their strike. So this is all coming up at a time when we have the new virus, RSV affecting all the kids, flooding emergency rooms. We got the flu ramping up. We got nineties of snow in here in St. Paul. It's winter. So everybody's in door and flu is spreading. We still have COVID-19. So we've got all kinds of health concerns going on. Hospitals emergency rooms are tremendously overcrowded. And now the nurses are saying we may have to go on strike. Why do they have to go on strike? Well, since 2019, vacancies in the nursing profession have doubled. People have retired. A leading reason is because of unsafe conditions, both in terms of security in the emergency rooms and the hospital rooms, but also because they're inches away from people with very contagious diseases. And unfortunately, a number of nurses have died. And so the main thing that's pushing their efforts is this concern about workplace safety and particularly about scheduling. Because there's such a shortage of nurses right now that many nurses are working two-eight-hour shifts back to back, 16 straight hours. So you're talking about people working 16 straight hours, leaving their families in conditions where they can catch a disease that could kill them and it has. And I think that the nurses are really unsung heroes because the risks they're taking and the hours they're working, I'm not sure all of us would do it. And they're committed to their patient's health. I don't have a nurse to my family. It's not a familial relationship. So I don't think I'm biased towards nurses. I think objectively, I can look at them and say, this is a tremendous group of individuals who are devoted to our general health for everybody. And I hope their efforts are successful. Fantastic. What a great example. Tim? I'll go down a list real quick and I'll apologize in advance about some construction noise going on in the building. So hopefully you don't hear it. My first is the first responders. Police have been taking it on the chin quite badly in the last two years about police tactics and the few bad rotten apples in the police department. And I know police. I've known them all my life. I've known a lot of folks that are in that field and they were there for good reasons. And certainly it isn't the pay. So my first on Son Heroes is the police of no matter what city, jurisdiction, state, federal agency, they're there for a good reason. The other is nursing. My wife has been a trauma nurse for 40 years. Practice is here in Hawaii. I better say nurses. Number two is or number three is all those attorneys that perform pro bono for non-profit organizations that help those that can't afford legal advice, be it tenant landlord law, be it consumer law, be it family law. These attorneys are on Son Heroes and they do a great service for us and certainly those that can't afford it. And I remember getting in trouble in eighth grade for saying the Pledge of Allegiance and at the end I said for liberty and justice for some. And I was taken down to the attorney, the principal's office for that. But thanks to attorneys and practicing pro bono, they do a great outstanding job. As far as some heroes, let's talk about poll workers that are trying to preserve our democracy, that are taking it on the chin for just trying to make sure that you have one fair vote for one fair free election. And God bless them. They don't get paid. And if they do, it's minimal. And they're there to contribute, to enhance our society, to preserve democracy, because that's what it takes from that level. And then for those that have partially sung, I'm going to go with Alexander Venman, who is the whistleblower on the conversation between Donald Trump and Mr. Volinsky of Ukraine, Liz Cheney, who has blown her career apart for speaking truth to power, and certainly Adam Kinzinger of that list. So these are people that are willing to give up and sacrifice their careers and or prestige. And I can't say enough about them. Fantastic, what great examples. And David, listening to yours, another group that comes to mind is the people who in many cases in really adverse health and weather conditions went out to demonstrate against and protect the water rights of Native Americans on the pipeline projects. And I'd add to the list for here in Hawaii, one of Troy's colleagues and one of my favorite people, Melody McKenzie, she's put together probably the most comprehensive, most representative compilation of Hawaiian history that we've ever seen. And she's quietly and extremely humbly stood behind it. She's offered herself her time, her energies, essentially without limitation for many decades now. And so when I think of her, and of course, Troy, you, David, and others, our unsung heroes have to be teachers here in Hawaii. They're among the most underpaid, under benefited teachers anywhere in the country or the world. And all of the teachers that I know put in incredible amounts of their own time, incredible amounts of their own money and resources to make those resources in that time available to the students, especially in a time where the system has partly involuntarily and partly somewhat irresponsibly shortchanged them. And it's hurt. And we've seen that. Yeah, if I could add to that, Chuck, we're applying my son to private schools right now. And you look at the, who are the teachers? But I've been trying to impress upon my son the importance of understanding everybody that's going to go into his experience, right? And so when he comes to my job here at the law school, he knows all of the secretaries here. He knows all of the assistants. He knows all of the custodial staff. He knows all of my faculty colleagues as well. But I've made it a point to get to the unsung hero thing, right? You have people who are uplifting and supporting this larger system at play that oftentimes don't get, I mean, if teachers and faculty members are not getting paid well, the staff are not getting paid well either, but they're a really important part of ensuring that we can do our jobs too. And so I've been impressing on my own kids sort of the importance of being kind to everyone, right? Being friendly, being out there and open and talking to people and understanding where people come from because they are, really, they are the backbone of our institutions. I'm picking up the idea of thinking broadly about unsung heroes. In Minnesota, there's been a check distribution program for people that were first responders, but also people on the front line. And that's been defined pretty liberally. So if you're working in a situation, for example, you're at the checkout counter at the grocery store during COVID, all the people that were manning those face-to-face positions during that COVID period who showed up for work and stocked the shelves and put themselves at risk are eligible for that. So I think that kind of recognition of unsung heroes is great and really important. And Chuck, I wanted to get back. You mentioned protesting at water. In connection with water and water quality, another group of unsung heroes I've always admired are global health engineers. People that are very well trained could make a tremendous salary in the private sector and they've devoted themselves to global health issues, like water quality. And we've got engineers without borders, like we have doctors without borders, but they can do things that I couldn't do and people without similar training couldn't do. And the work they do to create more helpful environments for people around the world is priceless. And of course, we're all particularly aware right now as winter is coming, not only in Minnesota, but in many cold climate places throughout the world, particularly Ukraine, all of those people who do everything that they do to help make food, water, power, heat, and light available to people, for whom it means literally survival, there are thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of unsung heroes out there who are holding that country and others together. So maybe this is a good time of year to start thinking about not just the problem-causers, but those who help us build the resilience and survive all of these things. When I got to today's topic, I did a little research, I thought, what kind of people are unsung heroes who maybe are being sung a little bit and kind of stumbled on this Lowell-Milken Center that has its purpose is identifying people throughout history that have done something that's seriously impacted our quality of life and maybe haven't gotten much attention. And it's really interesting to go through and encourage people to look at this website, the Lowell-Milken Center. But one person in particular jumped out, someone named Ralph Lazo, LAZO, and this was a Mexican-American in Los Angeles who was like 17 years old on the Japanese internship. Intern camps were set up during World War II, and he was in a mixed neighborhood and he just said to himself, this is insane. This shouldn't be happening. And told his father, he was going to summer camp and went out and volunteered to be imprisoned in the intern camp. And for two years, he stayed in that camp as a symbol of solidarity. And the idea of a 17-year-old having that kind of awareness and willing to make that sacrifices, it just took my breath away. So I thought Ralph Lazo, that's a name I'd never heard. And I thought, that's an unsung hero. Great addition. And the list just goes on and on. I just noticed in the recent news that the Attorney General of Indiana is now trying to put together and pursue criminal charges against the Indiana doctor who performed the abortion on the 10-year-old who was raped in Ohio and had to be brought to Indiana to even get that procedure. Tim, I think Tim made a really good point earlier about the politicians who are standing up for democracy and the rule of law. And they're facing personal violence, as we saw from Nancy Pelosi's husband getting in that with a hammer. Right now, being a politician who wants to defend democracy and stand up against extremist groups and violent groups is dangerous. And there are people that are doing it who understand the risks. And I don't know if they're unsung heroes because we know who they are. But I think some of their courage isn't sufficiently celebrated that we don't really take into account the risks that they are taking on personally. Great insights. Another name that you had mentioned earlier in our communications try was former Hawaii State Supreme Court Chief Justice Bill Richardson. Was he the first native Hawaiian on the Hawaii Supreme Court or first to become Chief Justice? So he was the first for the state of Hawaii. Obviously in the kingdom time there were the kings, the monarchs themselves were actually the chiefs of the courts. But he super interesting history. I'm a legal historian by training. So I just love and I immerse myself in history. But he grew up pretty poor. Hop a kid. So he was part Hawaiian ancestry, Chinese ancestry. Interestingly, his grandfather was Queen Lilipuol Kalani's assistant sort of right hand person. And so if you just think about just that fact alone, in one two generations, his grandfather was the queen's right hand man. In two generations he went to being dirt poor, walking barefoot to school. And he worked his way up in what was a pretty stratified system, economic system here in Hawaii at the time, worked his way to get to law school, ended up like a lot of individuals at that time getting sucked into World War II. Did his service came back to a very different Hawaii ready for change? And he got involved. He used his law degree. He was pretty infamous trial lawyer litigated, I think hundreds of cases in Hawaii before he got really involved in politics came back was a lieutenant governor, and then eventually was selected and appointed to be Chief Justice. During his time as Chief Justice, there was a lot of changes that were happening not just in Hawaii, but in the United States regarding race issues, regarding the rights of Indigenous peoples. And Richardson really set the stage for Native Hawaiian rights to really become elevated in the state of Hawaii, laid the groundwork for things that we've put into the Constitution, the 1978 Constitution, and then use those constitutional provisions to then interpret what that means to basically open up access rights and traditional customary rights for Native Hawaiian peoples, among the other things that he's done. But he's sort of one of those he got a law school named after him, you know. But when people say, Oh, what's your job to me? I say, Oh, I teach at the law school. And they're like, Oh, you teach at the John Burns Law School. I'm like, Oh, no, that's actually the Burns Medical School. I'm at the Richardson's with good opportunity for me to educate people about Richardson, who I is another one of my personal heroes too, unsung heroes. Fantastic, what a great example. And is it fair to say that one of the legal achievements that Bill Richardson's court left as one of its most valuable legacies was to establish the right of the people to the shoreline? Correct, beach access, yeah. Mm hmm. Which is groundbreaking, right in the United States, but makes completely different meaning in the age of climate change and sea level rise and erosion, because protection of the shoreline, which belongs to the people has taken on a completely different. Okay, in our last minute or so, lessons to be learned from these wonderful, wonderful unsung heroes and so many more that we haven't had time to name David. Well, I think just to kind of reflect on some of the sacrifices people have made their generosity, their willingness to help other people. I actually enjoyed and appreciated doing a little preparatory work for tonight, because it made me slow down a little bit and think about my life and think about ways that I can perhaps contribute better than I have. I try to, but I can always do better. So I think that looking to these examples of these unsung heroes can inspire us. Fantastic, Tim, lessons learned or to learn, you're muted. I think about the sacrifices, as David's mentioned, the sacrifice people make. And in some cases, they risk it all. They sacrifice all for either an inner ethical or moral feeling they have, and they want to protect those in society. I'm thinking of whistleblowers that are really looked down upon in this society, but without them, we'd have all sorts of institutions that harm people and poison people and do all sorts of rotten things. I'm thinking of Dr. Wygan with Philip Morrison and the sacrifice he put forth to blow the whistle on cigarettes and spiking of nicotine. It's that element that they sacrifice, and their lives are never the same. And in many cases, their lives go horribly off track, divorces, bankruptcy, things of that nature. Yet what was it within them that made them sacrifice and put it all on the line? And what inner quality do they have to do it knowing that the end result would result probably in a more negative life? I'll just say that, as I've thought about this, it's really about giving thanks for everyone and telling people thank you too for their service, whether that's police officers that you just see on the side of the road, guiding traffic through a construction, just telling people thank you, I think, can go a long way to just tempering things that's going on in this country right now. And I'll leave us with one more name and a lesson to be learned, maybe among others, from his example, Frederick Douglass, is there's a man who was 150 years ahead of his time in speaking about true equality and equity, diversity, and their incredible essential importance to what this country is and can be. And on that note, thank you all, gentlemen of conscience, courage and character, happy holidays. Thank you from Think Tech Hawaii. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.