 Mae'n cael ei hunain y byddur o'r parlynedd ystod o'r eu Parlynedd yn 2019, 26 mewn yn Oestrae. Felly, mae'n cysylltu ar y gael y byddur o'r parlynedd yn Oestrae yn y 11 oed yn 2014, ydych yn gwneud y Prysgwyr, y tympennu 2018, Felly, yma'n gwneud yma, yna'r gweithio, yma'n gwneud yma eich awr, yna'r gwneud yma, yna'r gwneud yma'r gwneud yma'r gwneud. Felly, mae'n mynd i gael eich ddweud o ddod o unrhyw ysgaredd, o'r brexit, o gyfreun o leysgrifedau i Llanxus, a Llanxus Cyflaedoriaeth, a Ostradaeth wedi'i ddod o'r llwythau, a byddwn yn gyflaedd cyflaeddau ar y Llanxus Cyflaedoriaeth. Ond o ddod y llwyfod digwydd, fel y Ffordd FFB yn y gwasanaeth i'r unigion, ac yn gweithio â'r Unegion i Eurau. Felly, mae'n gweithio yn gyntaf i ddefnyddio i'r unigion i Eurau yn y cwylision. A fe yna gweithio, mae ynddaeth y Dymau Socialistau. Mae'n gweithio, mae'n gweithio o ddaeth eu ddefnyddio'r unigion i'r unigion i'r unigion i'r unigion i eurau. Daewch chi'n gweithio eu phobledeb yn arweinod y Gymwrwy, a gweithio eu phobledeb yn arbeth y byddur. Wyth gwaith yma wedi'u eu cyd-deithio i fynd. Mae'r defnyddio uch bod yn oed fel y dyma, ond beth wneud beth oedd yn ymbylch. Felly, mae'r gwneud yn oed yn y symud sy'n ymgylchedig yn y dyma. Ond oherwydd, yr ymgylchedig yn y dyma yn y dyma yn y cyd-dyma. Felly, mae'n gyffredin o'r ddweud yn oed yn yn cyd-dweud yn y llwyng. Si'n ffordd o hamddef o'i bwysig темoedd ymyl trwmwysgwladau Typhintoedd perthyn ni i'n ddiddordebio arnaeth yr ysgol. Mae o'n gwneud ar y ddweud yma yma. Ond, ydych chi'n frefwg oedd eu fforddol am gyfathi, ond rhywbethwn ni'n gallu gwneud ar y ddwedd i'r ysgol ffawr ar y dweud ym Oesbydd ar y ddweud, wrth gweithio'r wyf, ac rwy'n gobeithio, y dweud am ganddydd ar ysgol â am dangos oesbydd. The staff serve the purpose of either punishing or rarely avoiding the government or punishing and rewarding. In Spain, what is interesting to see ahead of the new elections in the European parliament is that most probably, we will see the consolidation of something that is happening across Europe. and is the changing dynamics of the political spectrums in many countries. What I mean by that is that in 2014 it was Ppodemos who won the European Parliament elections, Iím talking about the market economy that Acении Weirbydd, and it won those elections out of the complete overhaul of the political spectrum in Spain because of the Euro crisis. And of course all the unemployment and all that its content with Spain kind of merged together into the victory of Podemos. Now, most probably what we can see in the next European elections is how Theod timely wins those elections, the European Parliament elections, why? Because they will take place in mean law of the Catalan crisis in the national configuration, so what we will see in Spain most likely is that the two main parties, the popular party and the socialist party will be replaced out of the centre of the elections by Podemos and Ciudadanos, and it is quite possible that this refurbishment of the Spanish political spectrum will have an impact then on the European Parliament. The big question remains whether if we put all the countries together and the outcome of these elections at the European Parliament whether these trends of refurbishing of the refurbishment of the national landscapes will translate into a refurbishment of the European Parliament itself in the sense that we were discussing that before, whether the socialists and the popular party at the European level will kind of start losing their grounds as the two central forces of the European Parliament. That of course is not up to Spain only but we will see whether if the Spanish case also kind of happens in other countries and that's it. How do you see it again? Will the future of Europe be a big discussion or will the tensions between Warsaw and Brussels more dictate things? Well I would start from saying that whereas I can see the elections to the European Parliament being a platform for protest movements for anti-EU movements in many member states, I don't see it happening in Poland and this is mainly because we don't have any serious political party, any political movement which would be advocating either Poland's departure from the EU or basically which would have very Eurosceptic roots. This is why I can still see the debate between the mainstream party and you know the current government even though it is more skeptical about the deeper European integration it is still seen in the realm of being a mainstream party. So having said this I mean what will be interesting to see is whether actually Europe will play any role in the political debate because back in 2014 it didn't play a significant role. Basically very few heard about the elite candidates and I think actually very few bothered to visit Poland but this time round I think I agree with you that might look slightly different mainly because indeed Poland is now there's this ongoing political round political dispute between the Polish government and Brussels over the rule of law. So I can see basically this topic being used by both the current government arguing that it will defend Polish interest in Brussels and then I can see it also in the manifestos of other parties currently in the opposition. So from this perspective that might play a role and of course a big topic I think which will feature in the campaign that will be the next multi-annual financial framework which has always been a very important port for Poland which has been up till now and will continue being a natural recipient tomorrow. Okay it's just approaching two o'clock I think it would be nice to open it out to the audience. Could I ask you to say your name and I'll take a couple of questions and then field it to the panel. Yes. Hi. Thanks for three very interesting perspectives for three very interesting perspectives. My question would be don't you think maybe that in the next few years the biggest challenge to the European Union is certainly is not going to be a copycat referendum to the Brexit referendum but how the EU responds to internal challenges because there's always been a huge reluctance to criticise individual member states and we see this obviously and this I suppose is mainly to Agata but also interesting in to Paul about enforcing EU values the whole challenge to EU values from Poland and Hungary in particular to some extent in Spain with everyone backing saying there shouldn't be too much violence from Rohoi but backing Madrid against the Catalan independence and now I fear we're going to see a similar challenge coming from Italy because either Salvini or Cinque Stelvi are going to pose challenges if they're going to carry out their word. Salvini this morning said I don't want to to have a referendum on the euro of euros lousy don't want a referendum but I want to escape from some of its constraints and Cinque Stelvi's policy says we don't want to follow the constraints of the fiscal compact so I think they're going to be some big challenges from whatever government emerges within Italy and I'd like to know how they think the panel thinks the EU will respond to these different challenges. That question alone could take up a half an hour but it's in a second one. Hello my name is Dierge de Berck I'm a member of the Institute and thank you very much for your presentations I think you could describe your presentations all of your think is quite nuanced you aren't overwhelmingly positive but you know you were pointing to the challenges and the problems facing Europe but I suppose my question to you is like to put it to all of you do you think there is too much complacency about the future of Europe I mean when you look at and we've been talking about the member states at the weakened state of many of the governments of the European Union where the parties of the center the more established parties are being replaced or increasingly squeezed out by parts of the right of the left you've other governments that are fundamentally questioning the values the liberal values of the EU you have a divided public opinion about the EU because well maybe linked to the EU's support for austerity and implementation of austerity but for other reasons as well so increasingly divided publics you have brexit as somebody mentioned as a possible trigger for other countries so every member state now beginning to question itself like should we consider possibly leaving the EU you have the possibility of a reduced budget when somebody mentioned member states are considering increasing their contributions to the EU budget but it's likely overall in the discussions on the multi annual financial framework which was a multi annual framework that it's going to be a reduced budget available at the EU level and also that there's many external threats so increasingly assertive Russia increasing assertive China the US destabilising the international economic order that the EU has been a beneficiary of so with all of those combined threats and mostly the fact that there is no inspiring political vision about the future of your even Macron who you've referred to you know speaks about modalities for promoting the deeper integration of the EU but actually hasn't really said much that's inspiring the public of Europe those that are inclined to support the idea of more integrated European future with a political vision or a political narrative of some kind so my question to you would be do you think we should there should be a greater sense of urgency and and concern about this the situation that Europe finds itself at the moment and what can be done do you think to try to address that rapidly thank you just because those are two extensive questions I'm going to go back to the panel and then we'll reverse to the audience maybe I could oh okay all very very good questions perhaps I should start from enforcing EU values not an easy not an easy topic but I agree with you that whereas the EU has been pretty good at imposing conditionality towards EU's neighborhood it hasn't been particularly efficient in bringing individual member states to heal sort of and making sure that the EU democratic values those define an article two of the treaty on the European unions are either sort of safeguarded or abided so but I think that this is this is changing at least the logic or the sort of the thinking within the European Commission corners is slightly changing as you know the commission didn't actually hesitate to recommend that the council triggers article seven against the Polish government and I would deliberately use the word Polish government rather than Poland um and you know this is something which still I would say you know six months one year ago was unthinkable for for for many of us now the question is will it make any difference it probably wouldn't make any difference because these are member states who basically pull the strings when it comes to either executing whatever comes with article seven and actually bringing individual member states to heal because it's up to them to take a decision on those issues and member states have been reluctant reluctant to point to individual members for backtracking either because they need a backing of individual member states in certain policy areas or because they don't like a commission coming to their countries and saying that they must behave and there are other other other reasons having said this I think that you know that you cannot really cast a blind eye on on backtracking on the rule of law because it also undermines EU's power of example and you mentioned that actually the enlargement is coming back to the four to the four again and that's something that the sort of complacency undermines EU power of example but just to interrupt and interject on that there were other options more forceful options that the commission could have triggered but it shows to what are you alluding well obviously yes so there are other so let me let me also be clear because that's I think something we need to put into into into perspective and the problem is that there are various tools that that you could use these are the member states which is backtracking on the rule of law but many of them are simply not addressing the problem of backtracking on the core EU values so for example you have infringement procedures yes but you could use the infringement procedures only when a member state is violating a central EU law and violating a sort of backtracking on the democratic values but you could not really use them when there is backtracking on the rule of law but no EU on on the rule of law but there is no violation of certain EU regulation this is this is why also article 7 is being considered but there are also ideas now being floated in in the european commission that perhaps there should be a greater conditionality in how the structural funds are being dispersed and that should be tied up with the respect for the rule of law if you ask me for my personal opinion I think that's tricky I think that the idea is particularly tricky because it is defined in a way that it is targeting those member states which have benefited from structural funds whereas there are values member states in the EU which have issues with the rule of law you know these are not only new new new member states but I think that there is this idea being crystallized right right now that there should be certain conditionality perhaps tied up with an economic conditionality with the conditionality for structural reforms and this is a discussion that the Polish government will have to face and will have to consider it seriously. Do you mind if I address other other questions and if I'm too sort of long-winded just cut me off? I think Italy also you mentioned Italy. Italy is is an extremely interesting example because what we are facing today or what we witnessed yesterday shows that a window is closing for any reform of the eurozone something which we fought with election of Macron and actually now Chancellor Merkel being back I can find it difficult with with whatever the situation we find ourselves in Italy particularly in the context of the banking union reform or basically completing a banking union I think I think Italy poses a huge challenge to this and this leads me to your to your question about complacency. Is the EU complacent about the reforms and EU's future? Yes absolutely and I did contact research where I was looking in different positions of different member states towards the future of the eurozone and even although everyone sort of realizes that certain reform is needed I agree with Paul basically there is no way the eurozone could strike a consensus anytime soon on what is needed on whether we need more whether we need fiscal union or whether we need a greater responsibility from individual individual member states. The problem is that basically we and now we face an sort of economic upturn and that is a challenge because that could mean that basically the leaders will sit down and say well since we are facing economic upturn since actually the support for the euro is growing well maybe we should deal with only the basics which are needed and this is it seems to me an approach that the European Council has taken yeah banking union perhaps capital markets union and we will leave other things for later well that is that is posing a great challenge because at some point the EU citizens will say look we want the eurozone to provide security prosperity and if the eurozone is not delivering on this well then at some point they might turn back on on on the project itself and vote the way they might vote in the European Parliament's elections. I think that comes back to it in the UK in the British election it was this constant argument that the euro regarding this introduction there was a case of misselling that financial terms don't deal with the negative and it comes back to that question of honesty as well but from your perspective yeah just adding up to to what Agatha was mentioning I'm picking up some of the comments I think overall we have a great problem here in taking a longer term perspective we have a great problem in the EU that we we tend to go from optimism to pessimism to optimism to pessimism again in in in a matter of days and that's problematic for for an organization such as the EU which is built on a longer term perspective for that matter and and I think that we I mean first it was France you know of course it was France and if France falls under the pen then it's the end of the story then it was the grand coalition it was Germany you know if we don't have a German kind of good engine then nothing will happen then it was Italy you know if Italy falls back then it's over it's the end of the story okay let's take a wider perspective on on the EU and try to abolish this immediate politics that we are all kind of focusing on on the Twitter basis that's what news does that's what news but we are in a situation where I mean this is this is kind of philosophical things here but but what I mean is I mean our societies nowadays I mean have a hard time into first accepting the reality that political answers are more difficult than political questions and we want to have kind of an immediate response to things that per se take time and second we are not able to see that the public opinion cares much more about politics not a national but European politics so the combination of both makes European Union politics even more difficult than before what I would like to say with that is that I think we should take a longer term perspective and look at what has happened after Brexit today if we ask again the same question would you rather leave or do you rather stay would you rather leave the European Union would you rather leave the eurozone or would you stay and the trend is that Brexit is difficult that once you start the procedure of getting out of the union then a lot of bad things happen so if a lot of bad things happen in things are even more complicated than you thought after casting the ballot on that referendum then perhaps we should also try to see a wider perspective and say okay maybe the trend is telling us that the EU is not so bad idea such a not such a bad idea and that that perhaps people want to stay problems are there tomorrow's election is crucial and nothing will happen before that election yes but let's try to provide a more more kind of longer perspective sorry but I think that this needs to be done and in Spain in Spain and something that I didn't mention and which is I'm very critical on Spain I'm Catalan and of course I have my issues with with Spain but something that Spain is positive about is that despite all the effects of the euro crisis and so on we have no Eurosceptic or Europe party within within the big big parties in Spain and it is unlikely that this will happen well this is good news I mean this is good news for Spain in the sense that this kind of pro-EU feeling is here now and was here 30 years from now when we when we access the the european union which perhaps should I say word on catalonia or well yes I think that would be helpful sorry because because I was compelled to to answer to the one word that you would say the one word on catalonia would be catalonia I mean that's for sure that's for sure that's for sure no but but on catalonia I think that of course the EU has had a very bad time in positioning itself on catalonia why because it has too many crisis on the plate and of course adding a new one be so a question such as catalonia would be a nightmare and this has been the policy that has that has followed the the EU following the pro-deductry no if a member state decides to leave if part of a member state decides to succeed and thus to to leave that country it also leaves the european union so this is the official the official policy what I'm much more critical about is that whether the european union has tried to depoliticize the the catalond the catalond question for good reasons spain has tried to act it exactly in the same way has tried to act as if this was not a political problem in in in spain and I think it is the major political problem that spain is confronting nowadays after the 78 so since 78 and the return of democracy to to to spain so what I would argue about catalonia is I would agree that this is an internal affair with the european union I am a bit more cautious in saying the european union can't do anything well something it can do dusk tried to dusk tried to position himself as the person who would foster dialogue but mostly I would say that this is a question that sits it is an internal question for spain some political dialogue has to unfold because this is certainly a political crisis and this is certainly a political problem for spain so I'm very very negative on the on both sides when they have tried to say no this is not a problem in in spain I can yes on I think on EU values almost everything was said I mean the the issue is also that that of course we have in the end it's the member states that take a decision and then and there you have a coalition building and unanimity which makes it difficult on the complacency on the complacency issue I think that's that's a very very important point that you made and and what can be done yes that's a question well I think at least from our point of view what we need is is find recipes to increase the national ownership of the whole european agenda and we probably need we need a reality check on expectations so many things are expected from the european union because because we don't really know what the competencies are so we need people telling us who is in charge of what what what is it that the european lever can actually do what is it that members that member states do in many many speeches we hear national politicians saying well the EU shall do this and that but it's actually the member states who are sit on the table when the decisions are taken they're present they can make proposals they can argue they can search for coalitions for their priorities and this is something which is not really perceived by the wider public which thinks that there's the EU which doesn't do enough we expect so much from them but they do not fulfill on these expectations and this is also where the sovereignty issue comes in no this whole concept of sovereignty which is is somehow a concept of the 19th 20th century which we need to discuss and I might call try this but of course this is a little bit of an intellectual discussion I mean who who really who really gets into this this discussion but we also need more honesty in the sense that what we do is we monitor how our members of the european parliament decide and vote but we don't really have a clue in real time how our how our representatives of the national government decide in the council now you can say you can say well the lack of transparency transparency makes sense because if you don't if everything is made public you do not really talk openly no but in the end people want to know where their country stand and and and every decision which is taken you have a participation of an Austrian member of government but we don't really we don't really hear about it people don't know about it and that's where this this confusion comes in I think to a certain extent the a journalist myself would have to accept some of the responsibility I mean there is a difficulty in the EU progression of law but it can go on for so long there isn't a beginning middle or end to it but there is that issue of competence and education and information giving us to no decisions are taken and if that isn't explained then the public isn't going to know which leads to situations and you should do something so exactly and the timing is also an issue there I mean keeping in mind how complex the European Union is with all these different interests we're not doing that that bad in fact but if we just two points if we say that well we just decided on banking union or it's Friday we just solved the economic crisis and then it's Sunday and nothing is solved and it takes two more years to get the whole thing implemented which is quite quick for a banking union but in the eyes and perception of the people well you just said that you've decided it why why don't you do it and my last point is that on and this is where the whole discussion on the EU budget comes in it is it's not just about numbers it's about priorities and expectations what do we want the European Union to do to do if you want them to to actually successfully manage our external border they need they need the money and the resources to do so and sometimes what the money is one thing it's just one percent of the EU GDP but but if you actually if you actually successfully pool your your your resources public procurement you name it and secure it in defense and other areas this is where the real money is it's not so much the one percent of the GDP which is so much in the headlines and this is also not said often enough and not debated often enough but i agree with you we just need more more debate and more transparency in this debate that would be my point but how to get the national politicians to do so that's a different story well that's usually because success is nationalized and failure is Europeanized and rounds the circle goes we used up half of the time already on two questions and did you wish to raise a question two questions the first is what is the European project about now we know what it was when it started we know the external threats we know the history second question yesterday Switzerland had a referendum on giving the federal government the power to tax for the next 20 years i think it doesn't come into effect until i think sometime in the 20s the other referendum they had yesterday was on thing of domestic interest here renewal of the public broadcasting license fee um is that a model for uh those of us in europe to follow that there must be some kind of a more direct engagement on big issues like the the the budget um and um and if not why not yes could i actually comment on what has been said before i just take those questions very very quickly on on accountability uh paul is saying basically we know very little on what is happening in in the council or in the european council well um i will provoke a discussion here and say well then we should ask perhaps our MPs whom we directly elect to go and ask the government what what it has decided or perhaps before it has decided the the parliament should hold them simply accountable and i think we very often forget this element that there is this direct sort of there there is this democratic legitimacy which is being drawn from national parliament and i actually think that the irish parliament is an interesting case study because ever since the crisis started and arland has been obviously severely hit by crisis the irish MPs actually started looking into europeers and as far as i'm concerned i looked into those issues already many years ago created certain committees which would be debating also uh sovereign debt crisis and financial crisis uh more horribly so that that's that's a trend and parliaments also are sort of gearing up and learning how to use these scrutiny powers on post quite on post comment on maybe we should be looking into the fact that basically overall post brexit there is this increase in the support for the year well i'm not that i actually think that putting it this way is actually being complacent because i think if you look into the support for euro and i think we discussed it already before on on a different occasion yes there has been increase in support for the eurozone project around i think 60 percent now the highest ever since inception but my question in such circumstances is always yes do those people really support the eurozone project or they simply think that there is no alternative yeah because what would happen if the country was about to leave the eurozone and basically they would uh you know the the the the catastrophe the crisis would happen yeah so the question is are they really fully embracing the project and that's the same where for example the polish people they're overly optimistic about the european project more than 80 support the pollin's membership but if you ask them you know follow-up questions if you touch upon on sovereignty issues or some issues that they are not perfectly comfortable with they will be more split so i think this is where a sort of um greater knowledge information should be coming coming into forth and now um so and now the question on direct democracy i think that's an extremely extremely difficult question and like coming from the country which just voted to leave the EU and i must say i followed a debate with a despair where basically um um and there was very little uh about the u as such and actually uh there mainly we were sort of or basically the the campaigners were spreading myths rather than rather than facts so my answer would be obviously we should be engaging citizens more directly there's already some top uh sort of bottom up initiatives taking place uh like ireland as as far as i'm concerned holding civic dialogues yeah and the president macron has just announced that he will be uh holding democratic conventions but ireland has been doing this for the last couple couple of years and i think that uh referendum can be a useful tool only if we have a certain platform and uh and as long as we have a certain institution which will be holding to account those uh camp various camps and whether it would if we have an organization which would be simply scrutinising them whether they're saying facts or myths and once the public actually knows what it is voting for and what the consequences could be then yes i might say that i would enter thank the idea of democratic democracy because there is a big debate here we have a reference and commission which is supposed to be assisting the public to determine facts questions whether it should be put on a permanent voting but when you replicates when you're when you've examined what happened and Brexit continues to happen it's quite disturbing and just we've only got eight minutes left so i'm going to divide it between you four yeah yeah no very quickly um on or also on referendum um i mean you rarely get the answer that you are looking for when you when you ask for such a referendum you you will most probably get an answer that is totally biased in in the in in regards to the questions that you are asking i mean i think that on that matter it's always the case that we compare that to switzerland but it's very difficult to compare this the the brexit referendum for the matter or spain or spanish referendum to switzerland because at least in spain we don't have the tradition of holding this kind of referendum because referendum is not only about voting it's partly about voting but it's also having an informed campaign it's also having a clear question and a clear answer that can be provided to that question so it's a whole system of functioning it's not only having a question put to the ballot box and people going and answering and this is clearly the case in the uk you you had a question you did not ask about the single market membership you did not ask about the consequences of of the different areas that you will have to rebuild the whole of your legislation because of your 40 years belonging to the u so all these things were not answered in a question so i for binary choices which are very complex i would unless you're Switzerland i would kind of avoid going through that path but i think that your your question is the first question is very relevant because what is the u project about now and i think i think this is a very relevant question i think i will tell you what i think it's not which is a way to get out of this but i think that something that has really been lost since the crisis multiple crisis is the sense of the you as a positive somebody i think that every country has tried to what's what's what's for me out of this union what what should i get from which is my benefit from belonging to the european union i think that to a certain extent what we've lost in in the in the in in through the through the crisis that we've been through is the the sense of a trans transactional politics so i don't see any country today saying okay i'm happy to give you a bit of these on this area that you are demanding because i will get that reward from the rest of the negotiations so i think that this mentality which is by the way the core mentality of the european union project is what has been lost in sense of what is the you now so to a certain extent i'm also very negative or very pessimistic if the whole of the u reform is about eurozone reform i think that we should provide kind of a vision that encompasses more topics on u reform than the eurozone i would like to see a dynamics whereby germany who's a very reluctant leader in security and defense acknowledges that it needs to give up something on the eurozone because perhaps it needs more on the security and defense file so this kind of combination about topics be that defense be that eurozone or be that refugee policies i think that this overall sense of what the u is about which is a shared project on shared policies on many different of very different nature this is something that should be brought back into the equation so it's not focused on only on one specific issue about u integration which is what benefits me oh no it's it's something bigger well can you maybe pick up on that particularly the idea that the cockpit of the EU is the eurozone and it's going to continue dragging everything else into a center because that's where the core is going to be i agree with what you just said no i mean i i i i i i i i i i i sincerely believe that that the core i mean even within the eurozone there are many many multi speeds integrational developments okay but the eurozone and the common currency between the 19 countries is one thing one important thing economic factor which they have in common which which in fact has its impact on many many other other issues in particular concerning the question of of sovereignty which which needs to be discussed can i make two points on the question that that was raised on on direct democracy i agree with what was said before i believe that we have seen many many bad examples of direct democracy from the lands to Greece from Hungary to to the UK i think they were all done and dealt with in a different way with a different purpose people you can pose whatever question you want but if you don't know how to do direct democracy you don't know how to use this instrument people will reply whatever they want to reply and even even Switzerland has problems with it if you if you think of the the referendum the boat on on the question of mass immigration towards Switzerland well of course i mean you you have a slight majority in favor of ending the the free movement of people to Switzerland but then all the other bilateral treaties that Switzerland has with the with the European Union would would have fallen and and that's why the politics had to try to to find its way a little bit around it and that cannot be the sense of direct democracy okay even Switzerland has has its challenges and by the way i think i think i'm of course completely biased i think the vote in favor of of publicly financing public broadcasting was a good thing in Switzerland because in times of in times of fake news and the question of the impact of social media and the challenge that all the public broadcasters have in many countries i think that's that doesn't mean that that public broadcasters don't have to reform and get more efficient but but they have a role to play i think which is important on EU what project is it now well it's it's it's the art of compromise i think that's that's for sure and it's depending on whom you ask you get a different answer i mean for for for millennials for people who are 18 or older younger they they have a total different approach to this for them this is all natural this is all given and others would say these things can change we have to fight for them you have to be very careful and sensitive and these you have to take into account this cross border sensibilities and particularities and i think that's what the the consensus driven machinery this inclusiveness i think is a value in itself and it's this art of compromise which sometimes makes the european union appear a a very slow moving train which does not really reach the the station and which has has problems in in taking efficient decisions and implementing them but at least we try to have everything everyone on board and i think that's a value in itself you spoke there about millennials and the different perspectives not just across countries but between ages and when i was with Barry Andrews and Manuth University not far from here and i was speaking about to my my experience and my value of the european union was as his peace project and i spoke about sort of dynamic shifts like the end of the burlin wall and there was one student sitting at the back and says that's history yeah you are in my sense it's a dynamic history for her it was about education it was about opportunities it was about travel it was about employment that's what Europe was but it was wonderful to get that perspective and i think today it's been excellent to hear from Austria to hear from Spain to hear from Poland and get a sense of where we are in the very changeable world and to Paul Paul and Agatha i'd like to say thank you very much