 Hello, my name is Anne McNaughton and I'm the Director of the A&U Centre for European Studies here at the Australian National University. I acknowledge, celebrate and pay my respect to the Ngunnawal and Nambri people of the Canberra region and to all First Nationals and Nation Australians on whose traditional lands we meet and work and whose cultures are among the oldest continuing cultures in human history. The A&U Centre for European Studies is the oldest research centre in Australia focused on the study of Europe and the European Union. We're also one of the oldest such centres in the region celebrating our 20th anniversary this year. The A&U Centre for European Studies is an A&U-wide platform for transdisciplinary research and collaboration with Europe with strong links to government and industry. Today it gives me great pleasure to introduce His Excellency Ambassador Pedro Rodriguez de Silva, Ambassador to Australia, New Zealand, Samoa, Fiji, Vanuatu, Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea as well as the other smaller Pacific Island nations. Ambassador, it's wonderful to welcome you here to the A&U and to this interview. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today. I'm delighted to have this opportunity to discuss with you the structure and the nature of the European Union, particularly that of the Council Presidency, a role that Portugal holds during this first six months of 2021. The institutional structure of the EU is a little confusing for those outside and perhaps even those working within the EU. I wondered if you might be able to elaborate a little further for our viewers and those interested in this area on the history and on the differences between, on the one hand, the European Council, the Council of the EU and also what it means for Portugal to hold the presidency during this term. Hello Anne, thanks for having me and you are the professor, you are the expert here, but I'm going to try to shed some light on the often perceived as a confused institutional framework of the European Union. The EU is actually a unique organization because it combines, as no other, two characteristics. It is an intergovernmental organization, like the UN or even federal states, like the United States and even Australia, with another very important aspect which is the separate national nature of the European Union. This can be very well understood when we look upon the European Council. The European Council currently having a permanent president, which is Charles Michel, a former Prime Minister of Belgium. And in that institution states have full sovereignty and they discuss and they adopt. We call it normally summits. We organize at least four each year and heads of government set the long term goals and priorities of the European Union in a framework very similar to one of an intergovernmental organization. But then this combines with the other institutional pillars of the European Union. First of all we have the European Commission, which is the UN, but also the body that has powers of proposing legislation. Then we have as a very important pillar increasingly, especially after the Lisbon Treaty, the European Parliament. The European Parliament holds powers to adopt legislation together with the Commission and the Council of the EU. The Council of the EU, which we are very proudly exercising the current rotating presidency, is a sort of Council of Ministers, which deals with daily business and daily policies in a very operational, operative approach. And it can gather all sorts of different ministers, of different sectors, of different areas. And it runs the daily life of the European Union together of course with the European Commission. We are very honored to have this responsibility, it's a huge responsibility to manage the agenda of the European Union in that particular aspect. But it is also a way for each of the European Union member states to play the role of honest brokers and not being represented each state and defending national interests within the Council of the European Union, but negotiating and trying to make sure that the Union is able to reach common positions. So to sum up it is really in a nutshell. But to just give you this idea of the unique nature of the European Union combining, hopefully harmoniously, this intergovernmental and supernational characteristics that makes the Union really unique and the European project very much alive and something to follow closely, even for the outside world. Indeed, indeed. And we have a long standing relationship with the European Union, which is becoming a little more formalized at the minute through a formal free trade agreement negotiation. But as you say, this balance of the intergovernmental nature of the EU where all of the member states participate so actively in the institutions and then the supernational perspective where the Commission has arguably a stronger role is unique and a really valuable one for balancing on the one hand the particular interest of member states. But then the overall interests of the Union as a whole. And I can imagine that, as you said, having the responsibility but also the honor of the presidency for Portugal is significant. It was I think 2007. So 14 years ago when Portugal last had the presidency. And it was during that time that the Lisbon Treaty, which introduced significant changes and amendments to the earlier structure of the EU. So the Lisbon Treaty being signed and entering into force in 2009. Looking back over the time that's passed since Portugal had the presidency last, would you share your reflections with us on what you see and how you perceive that both the EU as a whole and also Portugal and member states within that have developed? Yes, and it is indeed a world apart. What we have today, if compared with 2007. The EU evolved in a way, depending, is Union characteristics that it makes presidencies hugely different from what it was back then. I was already in the diplomatic service. I'm a career diplomat. So in the perspective of daily work is nothing to do with what it was in 2007. I can give you just just a couple of examples. I already mentioned and stressed that we now have a permanent president of the European Council. But that happens as well with the Foreign Affairs Council, which is now chaired and presided by this new position of the IO representative for foreign policy and security policy, Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, which is a former Foreign Affairs Minister of Spain, Mr. Josep Borrell. And apart from that, the role now played by the European Parliament is much, much deeper. And these characteristics of running daily business of the EU change entirely. At the time, the presidency organized and chaired all meetings, ministerial, international conferences, organized the agenda. So in terms of workload is completely different. Essentially, the nature now is much more the one of things being organized from Brussels and the presidency playing a supportive role. Of course, this is much more visible and intense internally because the role of the presidency is to try to harmonize different member states positions towards common goals and objectives. And in terms of external visibility and protagonism has nothing to do with what it was in 2007. Of course, we are very happy about it because that means a deepening and the strengthening of the European idea and the European project. And we think we really are strong believers that the European Union goes in the right direction and it is stronger as it has never been. But you are absolutely right. Today is nothing to do with what it was back then in 2007 or even before. I understand as well with the amendments that were introduced in terms of the presidency of the council, a trio presidency program or a process more formalized now in the treaty system that facilitates the smooth transition from member state to member state in terms of the role of the presidency. I wonder if you might be able to elaborate a little on that. Yes, of course. It was actually inaugurated back then in that period of 14 years ago. The first trio was exactly Germany, Portugal and Slovenia as it is today. And that permit us to set longer term goals and priorities for the European Union within that frame of 18 months instead of being just six months. But that set doesn't mean that each presidency doesn't have its own role. And we have our own priorities for our six months. The main direction is to try to deepen the social dimension of the European Union. But you are right. It facilitates operationally daily work to have this 18 months perspective. And this it proved very useful and it adds value efficiency to the daily work of the union. Yes. And I can imagine as well with a membership now of 27 member states, there are quite small states as well as the very large ones and also the more middle sized states. This structure must also be very valuable for those smaller member states in terms of the support they can get from the other states as well. Yes, that's correct. Nevertheless, as I said, the workload is not what it was. And things are organized pretty much with Brussels as well, with the structures of headquarters. And there is this sense of belonging and each member state helps the other. And the idea of the trio as that purpose as well. Yes. It's just moving now to a closer relationship, which is that of Portugal and Australia. Because our relationship or the relationship of our two countries actually predates Portugal's membership of the EU. And I wondered if you could share with us some of your perspectives on this long standing relationship. What in your view are the strengths of our relationship with Portugal? No, you are absolutely correct. And it predates and it goes deep in history. I would not like to enter this discussion among historians on if the Portuguese were the first to arrive to these shores before the Dutch. But the thing is, even before the formal establishment of diplomatic relations over 60 years ago, we had already very, very strong links. We have this very, very old defence alliance with the British Empire. And we were allies during the Great War. And we fought alongside Australians in different battlefields afterwards. So just to give you one idea how deep it is. Now, today, what can I say? First of all, I would like to underline, is the contribution of the Portuguese community to this remarkable, amazing multicultural society that Australia is, is an asset for us, of course. But more recently, there was this very interesting phenomenon of increasing numbers of Australian tourists visiting Portugal. And in the year 2019 alone, over 100,000 Australians visited Portugal. And that, of course, adds mutual knowledge, awareness on both countries. And it has been very, very interesting to me to realise how deep it is, that knowledge. Of course, the Portuguese custard tarts are an integral part of daily lives of Australians or the Portuguese chicken. But these people, people contacts, as much as they are intensified, they provide us with very interesting business opportunities. And even in investments, we have several cases of Australians visiting Portugal, fell in love with the country, decided to invest, decided to stay. Then here, of course, we have very interesting examples of Portuguese investment, starting with the cork. We are the biggest producers of cork in the world. And we have amuri cork based in Adelaide, trying to convince Australians that nothing replace the blop when you open a nice bottle of wine, hopefully Portuguese, although Australian wines are phenomenal. And then we have, as well, Visionbox, a technologically advanced company who does the biometrical automatic equipment for border management. But having said that, what is important for us, as well, is to try to put in value what we believe to be the special characteristics of my country. We are proudly members of the Portuguese-speaking country's community, the CPLP. Together with nine countries around the world, of course, we always remember about this big powerhouse and cultural superpower of Brazil. But we have this very dear to us neighboring country of Timor-Leste, that it is proudly Portuguese-speaking country in this part of the world. And these bonds and historical links that my country has a little bit around the world are, we like to believe it, an asset and an added value that we also are very proud to put in value and to bring at the service of the European Union itself. And believing that this special characteristics of us being a bridge-builder around the world, we are members of the Ibero-American Conference for obvious reasons. And of course, the European Union, this asset, this added value is interesting not only for the European Union, but in our relations with Australia. And I already mentioned the obvious case of Timor-Leste, but in Africa there are six Portuguese-speaking countries, the main ones being in Southern Africa, Angola and Mozambique, which give us a very special and particular level of understanding about that continent. And playing that role within the international arena is something that we are very keen about and that we are continually intensifying or taking advantage of in our bilateral relations with countries such as Australia. As you know, the ANU is organizing together with the Portuguese-speaking countries group in Canberra next week, the Portuguese language World Day as declared by UNESCO. This is going to be the second year that the Portuguese language day is celebrated as a World Day. And we are talking about a language spoken as a mother tongue for over 260 million people around the world. And this global language is an asset that gives us certain lessons learned on the way to manage international relations in a sense that diversity, of course, it's a value that we must preserve. But there are other links uniting very different countries around the world that deserve to be explored and to put in value, especially in these dire times of going through with this ever-changing and so quickly geopolitical framework that we are witnessing. And we really strong believe that organizations such as the CPLP as an increasingly valuable role to play internationally. Absolutely. And as you said, ANU, our centre, but also the Australian National Centre for Latin American Studies and the embassies of Portugal and Brazil and the High Commission of Timor-Leste working together for celebrating this important day next week. And I know that our colleagues in the School of Languages particularly value the richness and the significance of language and literature, of course, in bringing really, as you just said, very diverse peoples together through their different experiences of a shared language. So we're looking forward to that celebration and our new Portuguese language convener will in fact be beaming in from Canada, where he's still waiting to get the travel permission to join us. But what that I think signifies is that thankfully because of the technology we have available to us, we're actually able to overcome these geographical challenges. Ambassador, you've been very generous with your time and I really am very grateful to you for being able to come and speak with us. So I should bring this to a close. But I'm very grateful to you for sharing with us not only the strengths of the bilateral relationship and the significance of the Portuguese language, of which I confess I was unaware that so many speakers across the globe share this language, but also for our Centre's particular interest, exploring a bit further the nuances of the relationship of the member states together and within the EU institutions. It's very clear that the EU, as you said, deepens and proceeds on the basis of dialogue. From the outside we often complain a little that it's very slow when one's dealing with the European Union. But as I always tell my students, this is because there is dialogue. There are efforts always on the go to understand and to share common ground and to have this role of unity in diversity as an exemplar globally. And if I may, on the Portuguese language World Day, we are organizing. And I'm very grateful to the ANU, but it is the role played by the ambassador of Timor-Leste and Charger d'Affaires of Brazil and my embassy. It's very relevant as well. But the point I would like to touch upon, if I may, is this shared values of upholding human rights, democracy, liberty, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the freedom and rules-based judiciary that are at the core of the European Union. And in that regard, the relations either from the European Union with Australia, either bilaterally between my country and Australia are very easy because Australia is above all a like-minded country with which we share not only historical and cultural links, but we share above all the same values and the same core principles at the basis of our societies. But not only of our societies, but for the world and in this current international atmosphere we live in. So let me stress this aspect of shared values and common principles of upholding human rights, democracy, liberty. These are at the core of the European project. And these principles are the essence of our bilateral relations with Australia as well. This is true. Ambassador, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for sharing your thoughts today. And we look forward to sharing Portuguese World Language Day next week. Thank you again.