 Hi everybody I'm Roxanne I'm from Cambridge in the United Kingdom even though you might detect an Australian accent and I was part of the PCC course last year and our group from last year were all chatting about how great it would be to catch up and see what we were doing in each other's countries and then we thought why not extend that to everybody from every year of PCC and then we thought why not to everybody who's taking part in the MOOC and then actually why not just everybody in the entire world who's interested in the world domination of cycling. So literally within about 48 hours we've gone from a chat with about 30 people to whatever we end up with today. So I'm the Executive Director of Cambridge Cycling Campaign and for me I'm really interested in how we capitalise on this moment as so many people are going to be doing but how do we use this crisis to put forward their case for active travel and better urban environments and of course we know that New Zealand is leading the way so why not hear from New Zealand about what they're doing and see what we can learn. So I know we're all working on these theories of change for our local context but I think that if we can all align and have a global movement we're all going to be even stronger in our own countries and I'm also really interested in what we do in the short term the medium term and and then what that means for the longer term for our our countries and our cities and if this goes well hopefully we'll end up with a series of talks from different countries and we can focus on what each country is doing perhaps have different hosts every time different time zones so that everybody can be included but we'll see how we go today. So what we're going to do to start with is we've got Patrick Morgan who is from the PCC class last year. Patrick is going to kick off with some context around what's going on in New Zealand and then we'll have Claire Pascoe talk about you know what is actually happening tactically on the ground there right now but apart from that I'm going to now give the floor to the experts thanks everybody for tuning in and let's see how we go and thank you so much Marko for really getting behind our little idea and making it huge over to you Patrick. Okay Kia ora welcome everyone from Wellington New Zealand it's about nine p.m. at on Thursday night here it's really good to see you all I'm really glad that you showed up for this a bit of context you know New Zealand really is not an old country and our cities are more or less based on a North American model of planning so there's a lot of suburban sprawl we don't have those those old European city centres so we're a very car-dependent country and a lot of problems go with that as you all know but more recently people are seeing the limits of that way of planning our cities and there's been a real embrace of the bicycle. Politics changed in New Zealand a couple of years ago with a election of a new government and believe it or not our Associate Transport Minister is someone with a some of you probably met her, wave at me if you have, Julie Angenta is a professional transport planner and a daily she rides a bike daily for transport so you might think all your problems are over you've got this transport minister who knows what she's about she's in government the money will flow and projects will get built well I learned one thing and well a lot of things in Amsterdam last year but one was that things aren't that simple that we take more of a systems approach to problems and you can't just pull one switch and everything will fall into place so where we've got to today is that there's a modest amount of money from the government which is available to our cities to invest in it's called the innovating streets program which is I guess a a government way of of talking about tactical urbanism was really just announced quite recently and we've yet to see cities grasp the opportunity and make of it it could be wider footpaths it could be pop-up bike lanes great public spaces like we've seen overseas can we show you any finished projects not yet but watch this space so I think at this point I will um I want to introduce Claire now Claire was the person responsible for getting me on this course she went in 2018 and came back and raved about it and here we are today so introducing Claire Pascoe she works as the lead advisor on urban mobility at New Zealand Transport Agency in their job she's providing technical expertise and leadership across policy planning and performance to ensure that transport investment results in high quality urban environments that provides people with transport choices so Claire will shortly be talking to the recently released innovating streets package with funding for our local city councils to access and backed up by government last week with the possibility of additional funding recycle ways but more than that Claire has been a really good friend to me over many years here's a background both in central government and local government and before that as as the leader of one of our bicycle advocacy groups so Claire over to you thank you thanks Pat um hopefully everybody can hear me I will assume some nodding yes cool um so yeah Kia ora everybody thanks so much for this I have a few disclaimers um before I start but I would just like to take the opportunity to shout out to the 2018 class yes um let's also maybe manage the hype a little around the New Zealand response right now we've got a great PR machine clearly happening around the world um but yeah just sort of setting some expectations that we are building the plane as we fly it um and definitely have not got this thing all sorted out so really look forward to hopefully at the end hearing and getting to share some thoughts um I'm just going to try and see if I can share the old screen can everybody see that yep okay cool I'll just make it uh big so um what I was going to talk about today I wanted to um just introduce because before we got to the COVID response um we were working on this innovating streets pilot fund and so some of the reason that we've been able to pivot I guess to um having this national response is because of this thing we were working on before so I wanted to just spend a little bit of time giving some context of what we were working on and then explain the kind of pivot and how really what we're doing now is writing a whole bunch of national permission slips so I'll whiz through this kind of quickly but um as Pat was saying we this innovating streets for um people fund is basically tactical urbanism we tried a whole bunch of bureaucratic government speak um but have recently just come back to calling it tactical urbanism because you know people understand that so I Mike Leiden you know I think he everybody will probably hear no of Mike and his great work in this space but I think his definition is one of the best ones in in terms of um explaining that the the short-term low-cost and scalable projects are actually intended to catalyze long-term change and that's something that we've been really trying to get across down here is that these projects aren't just um for fun they're actually intended to test something in experiment and in advance a story of permanent change in the future so that's been um something that we have spent a while now trying to explain so we talk about the difference between a pop-up, a pilot and a semi-permanent or sometimes we call that an interim that they're working on different time frames that they're there for different purposes that you use different materials um you might use a mixture of them so you might do a one-day pop-up that then leads to a few-month pilot to kind of work your community all the way along to a permanent um state so some of these this is probably really familiar with you know for a lot of you we drawing inspiration from around the world really from Barcelona from South America from Canada this is our own homegrown play streets event this is France um you know we were seeing this happening all around the world and we wanted to get good at it here in New Zealand so um in terms of how we were framing and talking about this we had started with our new government really looking for a paradigm shift in our towns and cities in terms of the way we talk about transport so a system that puts well-being and livability at the heart and that was really new language and quite a shift in our thinking of transport but lots of what we are talking about the sorts of transformational change that we're after involves really long-term really expensive really difficult projects and the reality is that all of the crises that we're trying to address at the moment need change that's faster than that so this is my really basic graph that I use everywhere this is the extent of my Microsoft drawing skills but this is our rate of change that we had and this is what the rate of change that we're after alongside that we know and everybody who've been been to the course knows nobody you know everybody thinks they want change but they don't want to change and so it's all very well having these great transformational visions but actually what's our approach to getting people along that road and as I think you know all of us working in the space have become really familiar with in the last few years that transitional approach is a very way to do that so in New Zealand we've tried we dabbled we did some stuff and what we found is that it was really really hard when we started asking people why is nobody doing this why does this seem so hard we found that it was really hard and there were a lot of institutional system reasons for why it was hard so somebody I thought this was brilliant explained what it was like trying to do tactical urbanism in New Zealand like this but like snakes and ladders with no ladders so basically our system just wasn't set up for this process that wasn't business as usual and it kept running into barriers so the the idea for the Innovating Streets for People program was for us nationally to start to unpick some of all these barriers and there were heaps of them so there was this element where there was no legitimacy to this stuff people didn't recognize it nobody wanted to take a risk to do something different nobody had said they could there were investment things our business case approach didn't always allow for it we had some regulatory and legislative barriers so we have a thing called the traffic control device rule which I will not go into but also our temporary traffic management codes all of these things were the reasons that these projects were dying so for the last year we've been working on unpicking all those system barriers and what we realized early this year is we needed more than that so that's when this idea of a pilot fund came up which was an opportunity to really stimulate a ton of interest we know that incentivizing through funding stimulates interest and it helps overcome that kind of barrier to entry people are willing to take a few more risks do things a little bit differently if there's money in the table so we wanted to use that I guess age-old approach to try and drive a real lift in capability and embed some new processes so that we can do this so the sorts of projects that were going to be able to be applied for the fund were you know low traffic neighborhoods one-off big events like the sick levia type things and street revitalizations intersection safety treatments all these sorts of things we've been seeing around the world and then because people you know we actually found it easier to start to explain what we wouldn't fund so we wouldn't fund plonking stuff in the street for no reason because it looked fun we wouldn't fund stuff that was cheap but that was permanent we wouldn't fund stuff that wasn't aligned to what we were trying to achieve and we're not going to fund super cool funky art programs that we think are awesome but that had nothing to do with reimagining the transport system so that helped us get a bit more clarity but then do do pivot so coronavirus hit about two weeks before we would do to launch the fund and this is my favorite mountain bike at the moment that I'm thinking of buying and it happens to be called pivot so I just wanted to show off the beautiful picture of it but you know before we knew it we had sort of announced almost not accidentally but without going through a huge amount of planning that this fund that we were about to launch is now part of our COVID-19 response and is there to fund quite a different in a way type of project so um we we picked up this term that Mike Leiden is so good at introducing new bits of jargon which I love this idea of tactical resilience and we tapped into what's happening all around the world so you know the issues that you will all be seeing more people on narrow foot paths vehicle speeds that are going faster because the roads empty people that can no longer use public transport looking for other ways to get to essential work and so those are the challenges now that the fund is also available for um we would expect to see interventions like footpath extensions partial or full road closures emergency bike lanes um yeah so something that's happening in New Zealand is and I don't know if this is happening around the world our Prime Minister our government introduced these alert levels which is really the framework for our response and we're all now month ago we had no idea about alert levels and now we're completely fluid in the language of alert level but we've tried to almost shape some of this thinking around the alert levels so at level four which is what we're in right now which is complete lockdown we're thinking that our response is about um ensuring safe net recuperations so that's those people spilling out off the footpath with the vehicle speeds and creating places that people can socially distance um on the street at level three which we hope might be going to next week we will expect to see more people moving to more types of work in some school so the um focus will be a little bit more on providing those alternative transport options where public transport will still be probably avoided for a while and then at two in one it's really thinking back to that strategic link with how do we find opportunity through this disruption so as you all will be experiencing this is what's going on here and I'm sure it's what's going on everywhere um these are the scenes that we're seeing on our streets at the moment and of course we're thinking like everybody how do we take this disruption and leverage it for positive change that's going to endure so um with all of that in mind what we're working on right now is adapting our funding process so that we can immediately release money for these projects we're developing some guidance that we're hoping to have by next week which is basically the why, where and how for each of those types of interventions so the footpath extensions and the road closures and then we're making sure that we've got really clear comms we've got this new thing called the national emergency management agency um and they're basically the the the word on everything we can and can't do right now so if we want to allow things it has to come through them as a message so we're working with them to try and make sure that um things that happen don't get unhappening um at different levels so basically what what I wanted to say is that our role in this at a national level is writing all the permission slips we aren't actually we haven't actually seen as far as I know anything on the ground yet we've had one council that put something in at 6 a.m last Saturday and had it undone by 9 a.m and that was because of this different level saying yes you can no you can't so what we're trying to do is find all those system things and which we've been doing for the last three days so the legislation what says you can lower speed limits what says you've got a power to close a road and make sure everybody's on the same page of the permission that you have to do this stuff and then we'll release the money and fingers crossed something happens but we're not really there yet so it's a bit of an anticlimactic story I'm afraid um and the last point is of course like this whole couple of weeks has been making me think about the the great work that Luca talks about system change and transition design and the theory of system change I guess and we've never in our lives and they never again have a landscape change like this and so that time for innovation is the ripest it will ever be which means I mean that's I guess why we're all together but it took us a little while for me anyway emotionally to let go of everything we had prepped that's innovating streets we worked really hard on our messaging and our framework and then we had to pivot and it was almost like an emotional release to say okay let it go we try all our lives to be relevant we're relevant like just go with it and pivot so yeah that's kind of our story and I'll hand that over to Roxanne if you want to have questions or just chat thank you Claire sorry I was stuck on mute I was being very good and making sure I was muted that was a rollercoaster and my brain is already exploding with with thoughts of really my first initial reaction to that is just why can't we all be like New Zealand and and coordinated and I think it's coming across so clearly from New Zealand there is this level of organization and communication across all streams in the reaction to the pandemic which is really enabling this to happen even at a local council level here we aren't as coordinated as you are as a entire nation but anyway let's hand this over to questions I'll see if we've got any in the chat nothing in the chat yet so would anyone like to put their hand up and unmute and ask a question of Claire or Patrick let's see we've got a question here Claire the fund isn't a lot of money but it is honey to attract attention the real innovation is the permission slip I agree what do you think Claire yeah absolutely I mean the money's been a complete distraction and we've had a whole bunch of people asking about the amount and actually we're not entirely sure of the amount to be honest and and we're just trying to give a clear message that it doesn't matter don't worry about that put your best projects together and apply and what for a lot of these projects that will be is it's a process that gets unlocked it's not always a big dollar cost to figure out a new way to make a decision so yeah I think that's totally right the money is a bit of a distraction also just I'll be really keen to hear what some of the other interventions that countries are doing around the world because we're desperately trying to take notes I think that's the key point Claire is that it's for many people there's maybe a willingness to do it but just a how on earth with the policies and the regulations that we currently have how can we actually implement these changes is a really big question and I think you're lucky that you were so far down that path already to to help unlock that whereas I know in other countries you know just to get any kind of regulation order to install something is really difficult right Claire can you also screen there's a question from Robin already asked earlier is the NZTA innovating streets funding program has disappeared of their website today has something happened to it no that is a good thing to know and I will follow that up another question from Julieta how did you manage to get agreement with the other road user networks bus freight etc to manage these quick approvals I actually I'd be intrigued to know how do you actually create this permission slip program where you can sign that I know that all the other departments are going to allow things to happen well the funny thing is an emergency well there's a few acts there's there's legislation that kicks in down here so we've got a civil defense emergency act that has a few powers and there are some powers around road closures so this is not us this is not us writing anything new this is just uncovering the abilities for that you can do the other thing is there's an emergency speed limit setting rule which I didn't know until a few days ago which means that you can lower speeds through an epidemic which is considered an emergency so a lot of it is just digging out and rabbit-holing what you can do and then saying it out loud because people are looking for permission but but there's heaps I mean it's been an absolute minefield trying to find all the right people to talk to because now there's like three or four more agencies than they normally are to talk to so you do a lot of phone calling we've we found your your website again it has been relocated excellent okay if we've got other questions we've got one from mark what processes will central government retain to punish and or speed up local authorities who take too long to deliver that's not really how we're rolling so we the whole thing of this is we are here to get out of your way and that's definitely the kind of vibe of the program is getting ourselves out of the way so it's not really enforcing or you know kind of punishing vibe it's more uh we know you want to do these things some of the stuff's hard we're trying to make it easier but there'll be no kind of like follow-up the fund is kind of limited so it'll be first and first serve really excellent we've got a question from Bernardo new open cities all over the streets become car free globally Portugal Lisbon is also on board how do you recommend that innovative car reducing city policies transmit for government national governments national action does that make sense Bernardo you might have to come and explain that one for us well um what I mean is if cities are implementing policies Lisbon is studying a series of policies to be implemented over the next few weeks um but that's not the case with surrounding municipalities and they have a lot of road space allocated to um road infrastructure management agency the national road infrastructure management agency uh how can you transmit to national level because that's what New Zealand is doing um how can you transmit these policies to national level we have a few advantages um one Catherine and I Catherine King and I are very passionate about this and we both work in a national agency so that that's helpful um I think we're also really lucky we not lucky but in this situation we don't have a state government so the national government is really close to the local councils and there's almost no in between and that makes it much easier so I don't I think we've got a bit of an easier road than other countries in this space but I would say doing some digging around your national legislation and finding what powers they might have that they don't know they have or aren't utilising could yeah could find uncover something and imagine what that's like Claire I have to work with seven levels of government just in Cambridge a city of 120,000 people I just can't imagine um okay a question from Fiona how will councils decide what projects to do um and can we suggest they try or some major cycle routes where councillors are stalling yeah so I think in the immediate term councils we're starting to get some conversations from them today they're looking at a few things they're looking at um partial road closures particularly near shared paths or parks where heaps of people are going so um one of our cities has recorded three times the number of pedestrians on a shared path than they normally is and there's just not the space for the social distancing so some of these projects are very site specific to expanding those some of them are using the opportunity to think a little bit more strategically about their long-term plan so they're looking at their city centres and their footpath wards and they're looking to how can they double or triple them through this period of social distancing um given that it's sort of in line with what they're wanting to do with their town city in the future so they're already finding that strategic link but some of them it's more just about right now we've got an absolute problem that people can't socially distance on their footpath so we need to fix that I think that's particularly helpful for councils that are resistant this isn't even about active travel this is about social distancing is a way to to get that in it's also about safe network operation so because of those vehicle speeds people are jumping off and going around onto the road as cars are going faster than they normally do so that's sort of the way we are framing it as well yep absolutely um a question from from linda about um managing our return to work and school which just feels like a a long time away in some places um but what about uh as people are staying away from public transport they're getting more into their private cars um how can we manage that transition back to the new normal life yeah and for us that's where we're starting to think about alert level two in particular so for us that is starting to transition back to normal life and that's where we I guess I see the biggest opportunity for leveraging okay everybody's got something really different from their mind they've just reimagined their streets completely now they're going back how do we now think about interventions that are very aligned with our strategic objectives and start pivoting more towards um projects that are more of that nature um do you have any tactical urbanism measures that are being used to reduce speeds rather than just the reduction of speed limits that's a question for ray yeah what we are imagining um because remember we haven't got any of these done yet um is that some of the footpath extensions and the partial road closures will have a really a positive impact on vehicle speeds too so where we're narrowing the road space to extend the footpath space that'll have some natural traffic calming um impacts goodness the questions are coming through thick and fast now um oh we've got a suggestion from from salt uh one of the low-cost easy to do could be reprogramming traffic signals to help people avoid pressing buttons I'd be interested to know what's going on in New Zealand I know Australia are any other countries um reprogramming traffic signals put your hand up and we'll find you that was there had a really interesting chat about this today there are some we did this and there are some real um things to think about like residents who are suddenly getting the ding ding ding ding ding crossing noise every few minutes and there were a whole bunch of noise complaints coming from residents so there's all these interesting unintended consequences um and I think being able to tell people that they don't need to push the buttons important because if they don't know that that thing's automated they're still pushing it and it's the only thing they can hear yeah mark were you saying something as well go mark yeah I'd love to offer some insight on the push button automation I've sat through traffic committee meetings at the city of Sydney which have gone on for many years where that's being requested of course it was impossible the traffic committee which is the traffic authority said no but suddenly a crisis allows you to do all sorts of interesting things but even after that was done the behavior change piece that was really interesting was that they do not push this button were ineffective people kept pushing the button because it turns out that in the public domain the public are almost entirely blind to signs because they're surrounded by them all the time so they've now had to design a new sign which actually is almost like a slip that physically covers the button so that you have to push the sign in order to push the button because otherwise people just they don't see it at all mark do you think that this could be a permanent change does it feel like this could stick around or is it very much we're finally doing this temporarily that's a great question and that's something I've been thinking about for all of the changes we're seeing Claire for your program for things like the pedestrian controls in the city of Sydney uh other stuff that I'm seeing around the world I really want to believe that this can be sort of the gateway drug to long-term change but then I keep looking back to sort of here's the way that society has acted historically after crisis and usually we sort of we we don't maintain good behaviors if you could the oil crisis or if you look at the depression what happened afterwards was sort of everyone went a bit went a bit wild on consumption and uh uh sort of you know doubling down on their own behaviors um so while I'm optimistic I'm also a bit of a skeptic that some of these good behaviors will be maintained it requires policy and regulation change not just relying on behavior change I suppose yeah yeah and public buying yeah uh this is a good one's about how do you avoid creating destination projects and create more system wide changes and um my interpretation of this is that we we can't create these interventions that encourage lots of people to come to these spaces which in normal times might actually be an objective so um so how do we create these system wide changes but also avoid being seen to be creating projects to attract people to public spaces when they should be distancing uh and that question I was from Andy I mean I can have a go but I just want to say I'm no expert in this but I really love if somebody wants to jump in um I think that one thing that's important for us right now is to really differentiate the different types of projects so if this is uh an emergency response to crowding then there will be some destination projects that are about dealing with things that are in a particular site um but some of the things that we're also encouraging um at a more network level are kind of low traffic neighbourhood so how can we look at using um you know road closures or one-way streets to start to get this low traffic neighbourhood area wide approach going um but it'll be interesting to see if people pick that up yeah I've got a hand up from Bryn uh Bryn go for it or Bryn I hope I've got that right Bryn hi Claire um I was wanting to know uh what are you doing to engage with people like Mike Hoskin who um amplifies resistance to change great question Bryn for everybody else Mike Hosking is a New Zealand broadcaster who um through uh polarizing let's just put it so Bryn what I'd say to that is absolutely nothing we went on a really great course recently about communicating for change and one of the best things we took out of that was um don't give oxygen to your opposition don't myth bust don't just get even in that space you've got your um your converted your persuadables and then your hard to persuade and your persuadables is the space you want to be in so it's just not even worth going down those alleys um yeah maybe I'll maybe I'll chip in there um working as a as a cycling advocate in New Zealand I often have to field these calls um and I yeah I agree with what Claire says the the people we're trying to get to are the people in the middle the persuadables our job is to give messages that our base supporters will amplify and repeat and we're really trying to reach those persuadables so just back on the previous point about um big buttons at pedestrian signals what's that okay so with some duct tape and a rock I challenge you to go out this afternoon and see if you can hack the big button on your pedestrian signal to uh to get it into the on position and report backs tell me how it goes thank you yeah so we've sort of ended up with two two threads here but I think they're both really interesting to explore so we're still on this uh the situation of um creating destinations as opposed to these system-wide changes how do we balance that out and how do we also make sure we're not encouraging too many people to new spaces uh but then also we've got this communicating for change so um I'm interested to see if anyone else wants to chip in on those two two issues or questions before we move on to any others you can pop your hand up or just go for it and mute and jump in yeah I put a question in the chat was really about um the uh awareness around the the the permanence of the intention of tactical urbanism as a mechanism for change uh a lot of the media here and people I talk to kind of that's all very new for them and they they latch on to the side here of pop-ups so I'm just wondering how we're going to see some more kind of um yeah some you know if the councils understand that it's about permanence that we're that they're engaging in that's been one of the real challenges of this pivot for COVID-19 is that there are some projects now because of the emergency response that may not lead to permanence they're about sorting an immediate problem out um but I think every and that's made it hard to communicate the primary objective of the fund which was about these projects that have a pathway to permanence so we're just going to try and do our best to sort of say look there's this little thing that's for this specific purpose but what this is all about is is you know testing piloting experimenting to something else you know that Mike Clyden talks about you're not planning a project you're telling a story so what is the story you're telling through these I think that's also really important is gathering the evidence so even if it's a project in one location that might not be the permanent location but you're just gathering evidence to build that support for future projects in other locations all right just checking anyone else on those issues or I'll move on to new questions if I can chip in on the not creating a destination thing hi let her have and I think if you if you have created a destination you just haven't gone far enough I think you need to make sure that you're you create a network and not just a single place because people love to flock to a place but as you create a network it'll be large enough to accommodate a lot of people I think a good example from Oakland not Auckland but Oakland in California they've just created a hundred kilometers of open streets instead of just doing a single one and I think it's go bald or don't do it at all excellent uh Zolt hi yeah I'm Zolt here in the UK I'm in a I guess a city of 120,000 people and we've been trying to do some of the stuff like you're talking about in New Zealand in terms of these innovative street programs and the biggest the biggest challenge has been the comms with internally with other council officers about you know how to move beyond being conservative you know as your slide said we want to do check we want we won't change but how the hell do we do it and I think some of that communication as you've just said in terms of this isn't about active travel but it's about social distancing I think might help internally in terms of the local government communications and the challenge we've had locally is also who's going to do it because a lot of the local authority staff have been redeployed for delivering local meals and the highways contractors of down tools as well so there's the kind of challenges you push it through the system of who is going to do this in New Zealand we had a list really well took a little while but they clarified what an essential services or what essential workers for different different industries and what was deemed essential for transport was the safe operation of the network so that's why we've got some of these risky things where people are flowing from a footpath into the road and that is deemed essential work of which there are people still around to do essential work excellent we have a few questions around evaluation data gathering and evidence from lorry and a few people seconding that so and I'm particularly as well so how are you evaluating these schemes yeah so we in phase two we had a number of case studies that we followed along and they evaluation monitoring was a really important part of them so through those case studies we've got some good insights into different ways and a lot of what we're trying to tell with help councils with is the intervention logic so start with what is the problem you are trying to solve here and is it a problem that if this project got into the front page in the newspaper you could explain to people what the problem was the next thing is so therefore you know what are you doing and therefore what does success look like so your monitoring and evaluation needs to be really closely linked to what you said your problem was so you can't measure vehicle speeds if you see your problem wasn't not very vibrant business community your monitoring needs to be well did we make the business association more vibrant so we're trying to kind of help with templates to take them through that intervention logic to make sure that what they're getting at this end is answering the question that the project is posing I guess and yeah so I mean practically how we're going to do that is it's a requirement of the funding as a monitoring and evaluation plan and we've got a few monitoring and evaluation companies that will be helping with providing kind of specialist advice on how to do that excellent any other participants want to pitch in on evaluation and evidence and monitoring and so on before we move on to the next question put a hand up using the participant chat so I can find you if so I want to I want to add one thing here is that I think what is crucial in evaluation is that we also really have to think about what we are evaluating and you already said earlier that it's not only about intervention it's creating a story and by by not only counting numbers or vehicles or or miles but also feelings emotions and smiles I think that can also help us to change the narrative and attach it to people outside of our bubble because most people are not so interested in the so in the Netherlands for instance all the monitoring currently of covid is all about congestion on the highway which is really odd because there are so many more things to measure but we're not measuring them so I would also challenge everybody in these kinds of interventions to really think about measuring the the convincing stuff for policymakers but also measuring things that matter for people yeah one of the things we did try for one of our case studies I don't know if you guys have them but in our airports here once you've gone through security there's a button there's a machine that you push the button of how satisfied you were there's like a smiley face and a not smiley face and we tried taking that machine out onto the street with a question of do you like the street I can't remember do you think the street is a great place and we got them to push the smiley button or the non smiley button and that was to do with a project that's problem was this is a stink street we want to make this a call the street so that's why that kind of intervention was answering that problem um Aliza did you have a question I hi Claire we are the same cohort it's very exciting thank you for tonight Marco really picked up on the same question I I am curious to understand how deeply that permeates in this industry I know kind of the the monitoring and evaluation as you said is always very numbers heavy it's also distance it's kind of very technical very engineer driven um and that social component of our streets as part of the public realm and an extension of our public space where our social lives happen um how that how that message is going getting that out there to kind of understand and what tools are out there to be able to track that in a kind of design sense we work um as urban designers and we really need the detail to be able to come back and say on this street at a street scale which bits are working what bits aren't rather than at a whole city scale otherwise it gets a bit hard to implement something like a tactical urbanism project so just curious kind of what scales you're um looking at for that monitoring I'll let um someone else answer that but some of the cities are using some of the um public life surveys so the gaol um same quality of place stuff there's a whole range of things that and it's quite project specific but I think somebody else has got yep go for it Jolt yeah I think isn't top Tom Bailey who is one of the um I'm not sure what year he was on PCC but he runs a small company that does kind of video surveys and there's a couple of companies in the UK operating that okay you wouldn't necessarily capture the feelings and emotions and smiles but it might be you know you might be able to capture more things like family activity um and that kind of thing on certain areas um so Tom might be one of the people from the previous year um I've got quite a good app that is easy to download called street behavior um where it's like a traffic counting app that you can just download and do your own custom surveys on it which I can send around the link the link to people for as well another one you just reminded me so another one of the surveys um that we've been doing is the company comes and records how many people are dwelling in the place so instead of passing through they're counting people who have stopped they're counting people who might have disability they're counting the people number of people sitting on the chairs so it's quite a different sort of count I'd love to know what that's called because it's also um an application that we use here that um I work with called inhabit place and we do that scale where you're understanding people dwelling what seat they're sitting on and it's also interactions so you're asking people's opinions and I just find you get that smile story and it's a really powerful message to report up I think one of the challenges we have at the moment is that we can't we're we're discouraging dwelling so in these strange times how do we measure people's enjoyment of a space when we're restricting the ways we would normally want them to enjoy it and from a campaigners perspective we're doing everything we can to capture stories promote stories keep highlighting the positive role that the bicycle and cycling is playing in people's lives in really challenging times I'm really trying to get that emotional shift and that emotional evidence I suppose when data will be really tough and and any data that we do collect right now will always be somewhat irrelevant because well that was not a normal time not a normal experience it wasn't for long enough um but we're coming towards the the last five minutes so we'll start wrapping up but there was another I've missed a lot of questions I know but really quickly for you Claire before we go to Marco for a bit of a wrap up um what about the politicians and sort of the political risk how are you encouraging them to to be bold in this time and I actually try some of these these um interventions well it's one of our politicians that has been leading the charge in this whole space so our Associate Minister of Transport got this whole ball rolling for us um and where there's a lot of political support at a national level um that I think at the I I missed being recorded um that I think that you know that commission thing is the main thing I'd say I think people want to do something they know there's good benefits in it that when it's something outside business as usual there's a sense of risk and there's a sense of liability and so there's a heightened sense of needing permission so the more things you can do and find that give permission and say it's okay it's okay um then that there's more likely you know there's always an intent to get these um outcomes yeah uh Patrick do you want to pitch in on that as well from from your perspective as an advocate yeah sure thanks Roxanne um yeah in New Zealand national politics is not really our problem it comes down to the city level and that's really where the tough decisions are made so it's it's great to have money from the government um our job as advocates is to show this social license for change and to have those one-on-one conversations with our with our councillors and in public um I really don't know if there's a shortcut for that but I think telling better stories is a key part of that and I've just flicked one into the chat box from uh bike Auckland one of our groups about essential health workers who are getting around Auckland by bicycle at this time so uh we've got to keep chipping away at it find our champions and local government make the case of them stay in the air and and keep at it something I wonder if there's any other advocates out there like to add today we've got a hand up from Alex so we'll go Alex then we'll go Claire and then we'll wrap up uh with Marco go Alex sure cool um yeah I guess uh further to that I just was um thinking I spoke to my mum earlier today and she said so cars are a pretty um you know pretty ready-made uh socially distancing bubble that should be good for health and um and for coming out of lockdown right and uh and yeah I was just I was just sort of wanted to put out there to to be prepared for that kind of cultural safety response around the world because I believe I saw an article that said that there's been a a spike in vehicle purchases in China following there coming out of lockdown and uh just what kind of messaging we can be putting out that's um really negating the uh that kind of knee-jerk reaction um and just picking up on and and continuing that social distancing uh public health messaging because um it's and and and all in this together um framing because uh everybody that gets in the car is a base is basically reducing the the public space for the remainder of the people who aren't so that's not in it together that's not uniting so um yeah I just wanted to put that out there yeah okay Claire I'll let you have your final words and I will try and finish close to on time okay two things one thing it relates to what Alex said one thing we learn on our course without communicating strategically for change is that when you surface people's values they can think more intrinsically about um doing good things for the world and the whole world right now has been surfacing everybody's intrinsic values to act be in it together let's all you know come to collaborate so we are right at primed they call it an advertising but we have had all of those values surfaced and we should be quite ripe for our campaigning messages to appeal to those intrinsic values and people um and the second thing is something that I saw today we have a group here called woman in urbanism and they're doing a little survey just a simple little survey right now asking people about their experiences on the street during lockdown getting them to share their reflections and to send in photos and they want to keep a record of that and one of their main messages is this is what people want we get told all the time nobody wants to walk on bike but actually everybody's out there on the street and parents are letting their kids ride their bikes on the street for the first time they want to do this but they normally can't so I think in terms of some of that messaging if you can capture some of people's reflections right now um that's a lot of good content for storytelling in the future great to see you all I'll just say thank you so much to uh Patrick for jumping right on board and arranging for Claire to come and speak to us thank you so much Patrick thank you so much Claire for coming and talking to us um we'll have some informal chat afterwards but just thank you it's been really amazing and keep up the great work uh and thank you to Marco for helping us make this really big Marco I'll hand over to you to sum up and uh do a little sales pitch for the make as well well thanks Roxanne and thanks thanks all the others uh I have to say that this is uh this is a very inspiring one hour um most inspiring one hour of the last month that I've experienced and it makes me feel very proud to have been able to have you all in Amsterdam or many of you and to see how you are now leading uh leading change across the world and it makes me just very happy to see all your faces um so I've I've made been making some notes so I will use this uh this last couple of minutes to make some some remarks on that because I think what really uh uh connected with me was indeed this is might be the moment for our generation of of landscape pressure I should call it uh from from transition theory this might be it right this is our moment and this is the moment that we can use landscape landscape change uh for for the better however I think we should also be very well aware that there's also other bubbles of people that are trying to the same and uh in the same theory they're niches that try to now attack the regime from many sides so let's be aware that there's also the car industry that is going to sell trying to sell more cars after this which is already happening in China and other places so uh let's remember that Elon Musk will come up with a product uh as well and he will be powerful as well so I think uh the key thing here is indeed not to focus too much on on the vehicle and um and the bicycle or pedestrian but to to tell a different story so to use this moment to help people realize that we can also speak a different narrative about our streets that streets are not there uh only for uh for uh a movement of vehicles because this happened 100 years ago in the 1920s this narrative was created also under huge pressure so if if there's a lesson from the 1920s the 2020 should also be used to change the narrative of streets into public spaces for for people um mostly especially in our cities um so here I can do some advertisement because on the May 4th I will publish a free online book which is called Mobility Language Matters and it's basically capturing this whole story of why it's so important to change the narratives so I really like also to uh to uh to give you all a compliment because I think one of the things that I'm afraid of is that we are going to say to people how the world will be after this but I think you you managed to to stay confused on a high level uh and um and I think that's also the key thing here is that we should keep an open mind we should keep asking questions and I think and I hope that the products that we make such as the massive open online course the summer school uh the documentaries that we made uh why we cycle and together we cycle but these kinds of products help people now to ask better questions I think that's that's the key thing that we uh that we should do so I will put the links to the massive open online course the summer school and the documentary I will put it in the chat in in a minute but not before I thanked again Roxanne, Patrick, Claire for for setting this up in a in a in a in two days using all the energy there and I want to raise the question now who's going to do this next so who's going to to give us a presentation about their local context next and then we will just set it up again in this in the same fashion if everybody likes this final comment by the way for some people that didn't realize that what we are going to do is we're going to put this recording on YouTube because the quality of the discussion here I think is indeed also a hopeful message and it will be put on the urban cycling institute's YouTube channel as soon as we have time to to edit it so that's it awesome and for those who want let's stay this channel will be open the next half an hour so we can also just catch up I will stop the recording so thank you very much