 Welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today on this very special hundredth episode I am joined by my brother Spencer van der Zee Spencer. Welcome to the show What's up, man? Not much just here to party and celebrate the the big hundredth episode and this is going to be a fun one because You are going to be interviewing me because I actually had a listener mr. Mark Fullerton say hey, you know people want to know about you I've done over a hundred hours of these shows and I've you know, I talk about myself somewhat I think people know that I'm an audio engineer. I'm a drummer. I have a kid. I hurt my ankle recently, but right might be fun just to dig in a little bit more and And do it so before we do that. I should say that you obviously are a bass player, right? Oh, yeah for many years with you obviously been in many bands together. Yep, and we Obviously growing up we played music all the time and I couldn't think of anyone better to Interview me then, you know my own brother who I've played with a lot. Thanks Bart So we've had like months. We've had a hundred episodes to do this But because of the way we are we've waited until you are on vacation right now at the Grand Canyon Staying in like a cool tent thing Yeah, I'm recording this from a tent right now. So if you guys hear canvas slapping or anything I'm sorry about that, but it's cool here in the Grand Canyon. That's good. You know, we'll excuse some canvas flapping So yeah, why don't we just kick it off and you can just kind of ask some of the simple questions about me And then I'll answer them and be on the other side of You know the microphone here. So fire away. All right. Well, first of all, what's wrong with you? No, I'm just gonna what is I know you've been playing the drums obviously since you were tiny you actually started when you were like Five I didn't get a base till I was 11 or 12 or something but tell me about and the guests the listeners rather about how you started the drums and What that was like for you? Yeah, so When I was a little kid Our grandpa Tom Connop rest in peace was a drummer Growing up. I think in you know upstate New York Closer to the city, I guess he would come in and out of the city. I think but he was a drummer So anyway, when we were kids, he would always and an artist which you yourself I should have said before are a great, you know artist not yeah That's my that's my main gig as I'm an artist and pop who was an artist and a drummer was a huge influence to both of us Yeah, so he would draw Things like outlines of things that we would color in so like a tank race cars like indie cars, which he loved but he would draw drums and I remember coloring them in and That always kind of stuck with me and I've just always felt this like like many drummers listening right now You just have this like your it's you know primordial. You're like Drawn to the drums So anyway, we were on Vacation when we were really little in Florida and I got sick. I had the rotovirus which You know, I've never really googled it I think it's pretty serious basically It's like a stomach thing and I was in the hospital and it was terrible and it was like You know one of those things where it got to the point of like your parents are like What can we do to make you feel better and I think I said I want a drum set Which I think if my kid at any point said I just bought a drum set for Harry for a hundred bucks off Facebook marketplace, but they probably would have bought it anyway, but anyway, I was sick Got a drum set got a percussion plus drum set. It was a kick a snare a Tom no floor Tom and No hi hat, which I always was like why didn't I have a hi hat? I didn't have a hi hat for years Yeah, it's not fair but then one little symbol that came out of the bass drum on a little arm Um, so Yeah, had that again. I was like five or six which you know when you're that young It's just the whole goal is just to be around the drums and play on Went to a music went to a drum teacher Elmer Monk when I was really little. Oh, yeah Yeah, me at making music and then fast forward like, you know when I was 11 or 12 or something I actually started going to lessons to him But it making music. That's that's where you saw didn't like Carmine a piece do a He did the clinic when I was a kid. Yeah, that was cool. Yeah, that was cool So, um Elmer was there and he was a great teacher. I remember he was like trying out to be in Slayer At one point, which was really after like if left before they got Paul, I guess Yeah, this was years ago, but so I took lessons there as a kid for a long time I want to say four or five years, which I guess I guess that counts as a long time But uh, we would do like, you know group lessons where you're you hate He had like an old school projector and we would play on pads and it would be on the wall and uh, had a really good book which um Now that I look back on it the book was very much like, uh Ted Reed's syncopation which Spencer. That's a drum. That's like a classic drum book. Um, but it was very much that kind of like, you know, uh Big thick like you can almost it almost looked like a sharpie Uh, which people who know syncopation know what I'm talking about where it's kind of a thicker lines very easy to read but anyway, so we did that, um Simultaneously, I was playing in bands with my friend bill Bane who Spencer, you know very well And uh, we were doing that. We were playing. Um, I played in the high school band challenge Which when we were you know younger here in Cincinnati was a very big deal I actually won it with a band when bill and I were in eighth grade And two other guys were seniors in high school. We played with them and uh Pissed people off because we were so young but um That was fun You and I did it. We did it for three years. You and I did it together. Uh, you were in a band with me We that was like the first well, we played together for a long time just at home Yeah, we'd always been like jamming and stuff but never really committed to like an official project We spent more time coming up with like horrible funny names than actually like writing songs and albums and stuff Yeah, exactly. So, um, just like, um Uh, you know, did the band challenge stuff went through high school and then I got to the time of college Well, let me back up and say that, um You know, so this this episode is basically about my life. So I'm just going to go into detail here so basically when I was Uh, this is kind of cool because it was like a garage sale kind of changed my life in a way because I think I was in about sixth or seventh grade And all our our mom carry loves garage sales and stuff like that. So I think we do too But um, anyway, we were I was walking by a garage. So there was a little box And it said yamaha and it was you know, clearly some music stuff But it ended up being and I forget what the the number is mx 100 something like that. It's a little four track Because oh, yeah that thing the blue the little blue thing or the black one. It's black. It's black and it uh, was a four track recorder that, um Only had a line in it didn't actually have any xlr inputs So at that point we would use like an xlr to quarter inch converter and didn't really understand, you know the difference between anything, um Were we at bouncing tracks down at that point? Okay, so that's the funny thing is is we would record on that You and I would we would have friends who were guitarists playing I would jam with uh, you know Some guys who were because you're four years older than me should probably say that but guys who are my age Um, but what it would do is the technology would record at a much higher speed And then you would bounce it out you would you would technically supposed to be run Let's call them like rca cables like white and red Audio cables out into a tape deck that would then be playing it back at I guess a normal speed so when I was What like 11? I don't know how old you are when you're in sixth grade like 11 or 12 No one knows no one knows I didn't know Anything about that. So literally the only way I could we could play that stuff back was out of the machine um So we could literally never take a cassette out and like put it in Or convert it to a cd or whatever because this was like I mean that would have been like 2000 2001. So it's not like this was I mean cassettes were still around I guess, but it was very much cd uh era but anyway, so um Simultaneously with drumming. I was also very into recording um You and I and our bands and stuff Then you know, I upgraded I bought a corg d3200 which I think I saved up and Paid like I would say 1200 or 1500 dollars for this thing um And it was a because I had a job and we'd always have jobs But it was like it was an all-in-one little corg It was like the end of the era of like porta studios like You know everything in one the cd burner a little flip up display Right the little like not a track that but like a little like uh, like a teeny little thumb joystick Yeah, exactly and we would use the hell out of that thing. I mean we used it all the time Those are awesome recordings Yeah, it was really cool. Um, but anyway, so that was but like simultaneously in 2005 When I got that 2004 Really people started using laptops and recording home recording. Um So anyway, it was kind of like all right. Well, I should have just bought a different computer. Um Yeah, so always been doing recording playing the drums longer. Um, I got to you know Fast forwarding back to where we were before I got to college And I was going to the uh electronic media the electronic media program here at ccm And I chose that which is the college conservatory of music at uc I chose that because I could either go for drums or go for recording and um You know, I've said it before on on another podcast and I don't think it's like offensive to anyone But I personally thought I would have better luck Making a career Doing audio stuff and video stuff. Maybe yeah, well, it's a lot more practical I mean like to make money of it sucks to you have to think of it that way, but yeah Yeah, that's the way it is Which I think it takes a lot of guts and courage and uh when people You know, they're like nothing ventured nothing gained where if people do make it work As a successful drummer to support your family or at least yourself Then oh, yeah incredible then you did it but for me again, I um I loved audio engineering though and and I liked video. Um, so well actually I didn't have any interest in video whatsoever Went to school realized I actually liked it. Um But yeah, well what got you started in the video was that like music videos or what was some of the first video things you got into So it was through school. It would be um uh, it would be I kind of realized that um It would be a lot like audio editing because at that point in college I was using a computer setup. I was using q-base um for audio people. That's just like a digital audio workstation similar to pro tools or logic But it basically came free with a interface that I bought but um, I realized video was a lot like Uh audio it's just a timeline based thing um and I honestly It sounds kind of bad saying I love but I realized that there was also a way to support yourself doing video On top of the audio thing there was more money to be made in video because like Every business needs a little video so You know everyone there always needs to be a there's more like companies that need a video guy than need an audio guy Sure Per se. So I did you know in in school I'll just kind of blow through this but we did like you do everything from like, you know A news anchor class where you're the camera guy and there's news Anchors and a lot of those people actually went on to be like successful news anchors and like All the different markets like this program has people There are so many movies and tv shows and people on like I said the news Yeah, my wife did the same major and she went Interned at cnn completely different tracked, you know, yeah, and now she's a lawyer who knows how to barely turn on the tv Um So no, she would she would agree with that but I'm just kidding But um, so you get to try everything. Um, I also did a lot of like I I dabbled in after effects and like making backgrounds for like a local for like a school Opera Like there'd be a lot of opera students a lot of these people go on to be like on Broadway So we would do the backgrounds didn't really like after effects stuff. Uh, but So always playing the drums Um was playing in a band at that point called the sound museum. Um, I was teaching the drums I should probably say that too. I was working as a drum teacher from about when I was 16 Until into my I threw college and I would make you know Pretty decent money. I was working at uh sam ash It's working at the drum center of Cincinnati. Um Which closed sadly and then I was doing private where I would saturdays and sundays drive and teach A bunch of people and I I would say that after doing this show, I have learned that You know, you get your like mike johnston's or these people who are like just ultra mega teachers and it made me kind of think like god, I was like Not that like I stopped going to lessons at a certain time and I feel like I didn't keep up with my reading But I could play I can play Pretty well. I'll say that I think I'm a pretty good drummer But like one thing that I think I specialized in with lessons was making kids And young adults or whatever, you know, however old they are Have fun and enjoy playing and like be really pumped about how awesome the drums are Yeah, definitely. It's almost like I don't know like the culture of the drums or something Which isn't to say you're not like an incredibly good drummer I mean, I've we've been playing together for so long, but there's that certain ceiling of like I'll never be jocco Maybe you'll never be marco minimum or something like that, but it doesn't matter you can teach what you have And I mean, hell you have you had like 10 or 15 or 20 students at one point, didn't you? Yeah, and it would be um You know, again being in college Not really able to have another job during the year But you'd you bring in like 1200 bucks or something a month just from teaching drums So it was you know, which what do you now that you look back? I have a kid I'm like, what was I what was I buying like buying beer buying like food? Like your life is so different then but um, yeah, so uh went through college was doing that It was teaching was playing um was doing the recording. So you're doing a lot back then too, right? Yeah, we would do gigs, you know, that's the thing that I want You know, I don't know if I've ever talked about it on the show really but like so we've you and I have both played a ton of shows around You know Cincinnati and I guess a little bit further out But I personally have never because people always ask me like are you going to go on tour? Are you playing in a band? I've never been in a band that's like Really been a big touring band that's been successful and like like our bands have done well locally and we've had a lot of fun but Yeah, and minimal touring like more like Weekend shows and stuff, but it's it's hard to do man It is and I'm I'm now You know fortunate where I've met a lot of these people where their lives are on the road And they're like, you know amazing drummers who are literally living the dream of I think most drummers, but Yeah, I just never Did that so I guess that answer is that question of like, you know so yeah, no, I've never really been a big touring drummer, but I would say and usually my answer to that is but I've had more like I've had probably more successful like outside of the podcast things happen to me in the media or like kind of like Quote unquote cool stuff world as an audio engineer Then I have as like a Drummer I've done a fit. Well, let me back up. So I went to school when I was a junior I interned um at a recording studio called sound images Which became Gwynn sound uh years later, which most people I think listen to the show know that that's where I've worked Um for a long time. That's where you record the podcast, right? Typically, uh, I've been recording at home since Oh, yeah, cool. So but yeah, the first 60 or 55 episodes are at Gwynn in the booth there and it'll say this is a Gwynn sound podcast and all that and and I'm you know I'm working there All the time I do work when we get done with this. I have to do work for them And we'll talk about that more later, but so junior year interned immediate click with all of them day one Of being there Bootsy Collins was there and we were recording him for some promo for the Grammys So it was like, whoa, this is Which for people who don't know Bootsy lives in Cincinnati Um, yes, we we love Bootsy and it's from here. I'll go get Bootsy on question But I'm not gonna do it right now. All right. Maybe at the end. Well, you you you you have to do it now Go ahead and do it Okay, good. So you got that out So interned there Uh, I think when I was interning started doing um I would start doing some drumming there on sessions So that's where I've had the opportunity to do over the years a lot of session work Is at Gwynn sound um formerly sound images. So That is some cool stuff that I've done where uh playing on like some jingles Um a lot of corporate stuff a lot of people where they're like, oh, I don't have a drummer And then they just kind of called me down from the the hall and I would play on it. Um You played on a couple like toys didn't you like you'd push the button and the the toy the sound that would come out I forgot about that. So, uh Backing I mean if you go way back Cincinnati was Kenner toys So sound images when that was this name in the studio in the 80s would make a lot of like like we had this little board That has like one inch one, you know, one and a quarter one and a half inch speakers that you would then plug in and you could test all the different sounds for the um toys so What I think the key thing that I learned with all of this with with interning there is yes drumming is awesome But I also really really really loved the engineering stuff and then what I learned further is And I learned this more over the years is like I love Recording bands and music But I mainly like recording my own bands a lot more than I like recording other people's music And on top of that I like recording like voices and radio spots and audiobooks A lot more than I do recording. Um, I love recording music on saturday. I'm doing an eight hour session recording vocalists, but like I really like Doing uh audio stuff. So I think if anyone out there is like interested in audio you really don't need to only do like Tracking vocals and guitar and drums. Um, and I love doing that stuff again, but I really like doing recording myself Musically not as much Spending a month recording someone else's album and then they end up like sitting on it and doing nothing with it um Yeah, that's a very different type of uh producer engineer. Yeah, so um, I had the opportunity to learn that and do that and then Uh, yeah, so I got out of school in 2013 um, I had a Rented a music space and kind of started a quote-unquote business which literally was you Spencer Bill who I mentioned earlier and his girlfriend Alyssa and we would we were we were voodoo fact we were in an old warehouse and um We would uh do videos for people and we would do stuff like that. It was never I mean in in no way shape or form Could you support like an actual life with that? It was kind of like Uh end of school before you get a real job kind of like Thing but we could like a creative endeavor. Yeah, we made it work though for a little bit. Um Yeah, so um Yeah, that was that uh fast forward. I did video Um, I don't I'm now giving like my entire life story But I feel like it kind of all ties together with who I am and uh and all this stuff But I'll I'll speed up a little bit. So I I did video for a company for like two years where they paid me to Do video and be in my own studio Like 25 minutes away from the actual company. So I was just It was kind of a crazy dream job. Um I'm still playing the drums still doing all this stuff. Um But uh, then you and I so I forget the actual year here Spence, but you and I played in a band called talk When did talk start like five years ago? Probably. Yeah, so, um, we were playing in a band and everything's cool. Uh, and Performing out a lot. Um, and then simultaneously I got a uh, oh well, I should back up I was I was working a gig called. Um songs for seeds So what songs for seeds was was this was like a every day No, I would say three times a week and then some weekend parties Uh, it was like music classes for kids. Um, but not like Okay, here's uh, you know a c on a guitar and here's a g it was like for zero to six year olds And it would be like now we go to the animal wheel And you spin it right the clean up clean up. Yeah, and you filled in on some some gigs and I did it was fun, but I'm not really like an incredible drummer. It was cool I remember at one point the uh singer looked back because I had no training with them And he was like hit me with the bow diddly beat and I'm like, oh my god The bow diddly beat and you know, it was really that like I want candy beat But like yeah, I was flying by the feet of my pants. No, where were you? Uh, I don't know I had I think I had to do another video job or something or an audio job, but um So we did that for like two years. It was awesome. You would play these gigs I think if you technically count A class as a show which You know, like, you know, your nine o'clock would be a show And then your 10 o'clock would be a show we did like 300 shows in a year Um But that's kind of a stretch. That's not like you're playing Madison Square Garden every night Yeah, are you like comparing yourselves to pink Floyd or something? Pretty much So uh did that and then I became full time Um at Gwyn sound which at that point was sound images. It's kind of confusing, but the original owner was there. So um And that's when I started to kind of do Um, I got into more of the which I would you know, people have heard me talk about it before but it's kind of worth mentioning here. Um Once I started working there more full time I kind of got more into like, you know, you get more responsibility And that's when I got the opportunity to do more of the like, uh, it's such a weird niche thing But I did a fair amount of the ad r or dialogue replacement Uh for movies and tv shows Which hmm, you know, so to explain what that is is, uh And again, it falls into that category of like you don't have to be recording You know violinists and drummers and guitarists all the time. There's a lot of audio That needs to be recorded but so what ad r is is it's I think it's called automatic or automated dialogue replacement Don't really get that name because it's not automatic because you have to do it yourself. They call it looping too, but um What it does is every time you see a movie or a tv show sometimes It's more obvious than others because it wasn't really laid in right but um, it's fixing lines that got Messed up in the recording process. Right. I mean it's so can I ask you a quick question? I watched Jackie Chan's first strike the other night and it was overdubbed But like with english like it looked like everybody was speaking english, but then they put english over it. That's that's ad r so um So like you're saying that it would have been filmed and recorded in you know, uh In chinese, right and then they look like it was filmed in english And then they put english subtitle or english language over it. It was like unnaturally like Uh, yeah, it was weird. It just reminded me of like an unnecessary ad r Well, that might have been a mixing thing too where like they have the the the vocal like the dialogue track And um, but yeah, I've seen that where it's like it looks like they're moved their mouths are moving But a lot of times maybe it tricked you because I've worked on one where they'll literally write the dialogue To match the lip movement of the other language to make it as close as humanly possible to um To make it seem like that, but all right, so One thing that should be clear though is in um ad r So I should say that it's dialogue for movies and tv shows because I've done ad r I've done animated dialogue because if you're doing Dialogue recording for an animated film. That's not ad r because you're not Replacing it. You're actually recording the like You know the character speaking um So that's a different thing. So and which which I've had the opportunity to do as well, which is cool, but um Yeah, so what happens is and it's kind of and I'll say some of the stuff I've done because I think it's kind of cool But um people the actor You might be thinking you live in Cincinnati. You don't live in la or new york or wherever atlanta. Why are you that? Why is this happening here? Um We have a relatively good film industry here I would say we do have a good film industry here where there's a big tax credit Which that kind of usually is why people come in but um To do that because they get money off their movie And what happens is is so for the first big For the first big one I did Was uh that I actually just assisted on but I ended up doing a fair amount of like, you know, the button pushing was Fantastic beasts and where to find them What so that was collin ferrell So he was here in Cincinnati filming killing of a sacred deer Um, oh, I love that. I never saw it. But um, well, so creepy. I like I need to see it But anyway, so the actor will be here filming movie a which is currently in production and then movie b which is Totally finished filming totally wrapped. They're then working on the post production and they're fixing these lines Um, right. So that's how it works and they would that's not just here That's in any given major city. They would be in filming and they find a studio and they're doing the same same deal A lot of the ones I've done are there's people here who are doing like the shakespear companies performance of blah and Because that this actor who was like a background actor Um, is here and and a lot of the times I mean I I'll be honest. I've done a fair amount of big movies, but a lot of times they're Background characters collin ferrell was one of the bigger ones. Um Who was a main character, but a lot of times they are Either a background character or someone. Um, who's like, you know, not that huge of a Player in it, but um, just looking at I'm kind of looking I have an imdb page which if anyone googles my name and imdb you can see but I'm just going to kind of say a few of them So like dolly partons heartstrings on netflix, uh dark waters That was a movie on netflix that was filmed in Cincinnati. I did a ton on that. Um The deuce which was on hbo with meggy jillenhall and uh, uh Oh james franco Yeah, um, so did that which that one was cool because I actually really I watched that show Like from the beginning and then I got to work on the series finale the very last episode. Um Which was cool, but like um, chicago pd law and order those were cool. Um arrested development. Um, and then you get the like Animated ones. So I worked on uh, the girl who played Who was in frozen is from Cincinnati the young girl. So I worked on olof's frozen adventure. Um I did a lot of voiceover or did the narrator for um the first 48 Uh, I worked on the trolls movie the last one. Um, and like that would be considered dialogue. Um for an animated thing but Did a fair amount of that that's kind of the when people are like, oh, have you been a touring drummer? I go no, but I've done some cool stuff with like movies because I feel the need to like justify my existence Yeah, right. Um, then currently, uh, that kind of brings us up to now I mean, I still work with guin since co what I've been working from home more and kind of like Splitting the time with watching harry who's my son and then I work mainly at night from guin And abby who's my wife as you know, spencer. She'll she'll uh work from home half the time and then we'll We'll split it with that. Um, but uh, yeah, so still doing session work At guin, um, I've done a lot of them recently when I hurt my ankle Which was from skateboarding Completely, you're not very good. I was okay, but it just not anymore it ruptured my achilles tendon. Um and Then once that healed though, I've been back doing into sessions, but um You know As a drummer, I've always it's kind of like these weird things where again recording. I like doing the voice drumming Sounds crazy, and I'm sure other people like this too, but I've always wanted to be on really popular big famous jingles, you know like um O'Reilly automotive, you know, like I always think man, I wish I it's not a local one People know what that is. It plays probably regionally, but it plays on the radio All the time. So like, uh, right, you know, I think we have all the fun. I played on the Watson's commercials That's right. I played on champion windows, which is in 48 different cities, um Joseph you get like you don't get royalties for these like session drummers A session musician would go in you get cut a check and then that's that's the gig Maybe other people have better deals than me if they're like union But for me, it was literally like some of those would be like, you know, I'd get 50 dollars or 100 dollars because it's 50 bucks an hour, um And like a coupon for 50 bucks off a pool table or hot tub not even that Man, but it's cool. You get to hear yourself all the time and um You know, like you're watching tv or like you're at the dentist and you're kind of like, oh You know, I played drums on that you get to say that but Okay, if that Yeah, that's that's that's my payment right So, uh, that's pretty much Oh, let me back up to actually I should probably say when I started the podcast Yeah, so I was gonna ask like when did what was the first iteration of it before you started the podcast What were you Thinking I mean, I know you you and I have both been interested not just in The instruments that we play but the history of them The the culture and stuff. Um, and as you said our grandpa pop got us so interested in like percussion and drums and rhythm And stuff so long ago. When did you start considering starting this podcast? Yeah, that's a good question. So, um in 20 I don't know. I started the podcast in 2018 so I would say in like 2016 I had like never really or 2015 16 I'd never really even listened to a podcast at all and they they'd been around for 10 years or so at that point I think but um So I was recording other people's shows at work primarily filmmakers drinking bourbon was the podcast I Oh, yeah recorded 100 plus episodes of and Finally, I was like, okay. I need to start listening to podcasts Uh, and of course, I love it and I do it. I listen to them all the time now and uh I'm sure you I know you do too and people who are listening to this you're you're literally listening to a podcast right now so obviously you do too, but um so, uh We were playing in the band the band kind of like came to an end as bands do especially when you're in a band with your brother and two friends were like Uh, you know, and you know what I'm talking about where you kind of hit a point where like productivity Sort of turns more into like Drinking beer and playing video games and playing music a little bit like we have a show coming up. Let's play this set Okay, and now let's hang out which was There was a little bit of chill. Yeah, that's an interesting way of saying it some I mean projects tend to have kind of an arc and obviously gordy and ryan are you know, we'll play with them again soon And but yeah projects always have kind of an arc So our arc came, you know crashing down into the ground and we just broke broke up basically Or we just kind of like we'll pick it up later We're just never gonna happen. You know the fizzle. Yeah Just like well it just stopped so I guess fast forward a little bit. Um, I thought to myself Uh, it was a mix of I was watching videos on about the chicago drum show which is coming up this weekend Actually as i'm recording this, um And I was like, oh, are you going I am going I'm going on. I'll be there sunday, but this will be out two days after it's over, but um Yeah, so I'll be there, but um Uh Yeah, I I was watching these shows and I was like, oh man, I love the drums So I really wanted to start a podcast and it was kind of one of those things where people say like I wanted to start a business and I didn't really have the idea for the business yet But that's really what it was like where I was like, okay. I want to do a podcast It's obviously going to be some sort of drum related thing I was listening to drum gab at that point now drummy oh gab a lot with shameless I was listening to the modern drummer podcast with mic and mic all the time. Um And uh, I kind of thought all right, I want to be drum related And I was like I need to do something I want to learn more about the history of the drums was kind of the progression of it in my mind And I'm kind of like, how do you do it? I'm and just was like, all right. Well, maybe if I do it on the podcast and I interview people or it was going to be I'm going to research a ton of different Stuff and I'm going to present episodes again emphasis on I am going to do an episode about the history of Ludwig and so initially your plan was just you would research it and then you would talk about yes and um And I was like I actually uh reached that to our uncle William And who's a great historian stuff? And I was like, can you do some of the research and help me? And then it started to turn into and William's busy. He has a job Uh Like waiting on you know, okay, we got to do this and then I realized what am I doing? I'm an idiot There's experts out there who know this stuff. I can't ever possibly know everything which I've really learned from doing the podcast like there's It was just a It's the natural progression of things. So you go I can do it. No wait. Let me interview Experts on it. Let me find these people because that's and of course it's like duh you idiot That's what a podcast is as you interview people. No one wants to listen. Otherwise. It's just an audio book basically No, no one wants to hear you do But um, so here's a fun bit of like information For the drummers out there. I don't know if you're familiar with them. Spencer probably not but uh, I actually Somehow got connected with early on again. This is Three years ago with uh, tim baltas who's timbo from keno Which most I I had talked to that guy. I'm yeah, I know exactly who that guy is. I love that. Awesome Very nice guy. We've hung out in person at pay sick and stuff, but um So tim is great and I realized at that point. I was like so You know, it had not even started yet. This is like april of 2018 when I first started recording, you know, I just had the idea So I didn't even a name have a name yet, but I told like I got on the phone with tim He probably doesn't even remember this. Um, but I got we somehow got on the phone talking. I don't really even No, I guess I just reached out to him and uh, anyway, I said I I was like, would you want to co-host it with me? and Which I think I did that and maybe you know, it's a thing I do where like I'd have a tendency to think Someone else who's like Bigger than me like at that point. He was you know, he had like 5,000 face instagram followers, which now he has a ton more but like it was like, oh, this guy's doing it You know, I need I can't do it on my own. I need his help, which you know, whatever psychology you want to put into that but um I'm weak I'm just no I don't know so self doubt if you're about to start a huge project like that I completely understand It's intimidating. So anyway, I said to tim I was like you want to help out And I think you know, honestly, I think my phone kept breaking up and I remember I couldn't really hear what he was saying just kind of funny But uh, it basically came to no, you should do it on your own and I was like I can't hear you. My phone is breaking up um He though, I think directed me to get to the right people of like You know, you should talk to uh, joe mechler who was on one of the first episodes about world war two drums and I think I'm I don't even know. I think he that led to a snowball of like, you know, just Putting me in the right people within the community. Um So, uh, boy, it would have been a different show if I loved him But if he if we were doing it together, it would have been a completely different, uh Thing it's just interesting to think about that because he's he's like a character It is He is and like the coolest thing I think about your podcast is that so many podcasts that I I listen to Are a couple guys or a group of comedians and so much of it is about Riffing and I I know I'm kind of like, you know, we're having fun and stuff. But like yours is pretty just Facts and it's about the information. It's not trying to be anything. It isn't you're not trying to be a comedian or anything like that Yeah, it's it's a nice refreshing point of view in my opinion. Okay. Well, I am trying to be a comedian But I guess it's failing completely. Um, absolutely No, I always say that I want it to be like an npr podcast or like a ken burns documentary of A podcast version that's not six hours long. But um so Yeah, long-winded answer is then I you know, I kind of it all fell into place of like, yeah I want to do the history of the drums and then I did um Uh, you know recorded these episodes and then I I recorded like three I recorded three episodes. I did Uh silent movie drummers with kelly ray tubs. I did world war two drums with, um Uh joe mechler joey boom and then I did um The history of slingerland what I thought was the history of slingerland with, um Hold on. Jim. I did the history of slingerland with jim moritz, uh, which It's that kind of taught me a lesson too of I I went to jim to do the history of slingerland And it turned it to be a completely different episode about how his family Worked at slingerland. So that was an early lesson of like I gotta be clear to people what I want because I loved how his episode turned out But if you want someone to do the history of a company You need to be clear and say this is what I'm looking for otherwise Jim pulled it off great But you need to be clear because I've had some where people are like we do it and they go. Oh, I don't know You should have talked to this guy like oh Okay, yeah, so I don't mean to digress too much from that but like yeah, how often how do you give people? Talking points about what you want them to talk about. I mean you basically if we we're just kind of Having a nice conversation right now and we obviously we talk and play music all the time together But like somebody you don't know an expert. Do you give them bullet points that you want to make sure they touch on? So No, and and that's the the interest the the process of it is and now there's a lot of people who Well to touch on to finish that up that thing up before is I recorded the episodes I waited until october from april to october before I released because I I couldn't find I was like I got to record the intro I got to do the drums. I got to do the drums and then I ended up not even doing it That's the dat dat dat dat dat dumb is some Stock thing that I found on a music licensing service we have through work Which people are like disappointed when they hear that but again It was one of those things were crushing. I was like It was like it was seriously stopping the show from being launched because I just never found the time to do it but So the process though is I usually think of a topic Which now most of them are a lot of them are submitted like people send me tons of great ideas, but They submit an idea Or or I say, okay, let's so I want to do The history of gretch drums, which was with John Sheridan super early on So so I find him and I say or all right like let's say I just google history of gretch or I do whatever Uh, it turns out he wrote a book on it great or rob cook who's you know the chicago drum show founder He recommends him to me a lot of people have been recommended by rob, but um So I don't give any bullet points. I just say I want you to do a chronological history of this brand This thing this technique this style this teacher I always just say just simplify it and go in chronological order and um That's basically it and to be honest it's easier on me There are times though where like You know I do prepare stuff where like the zilgin episode with which people really liked with paul francis I had written seven pages on zilgin because originally the first episode of this podcast Uh, which I didn't even mention this before I recorded an hour long history of zilgin myself And I never really I remember You got so into that I remember doing uh illustrations of like avatis zilgin and stuff making Making symbols and everything and yeah, you were like zilgin obsessed for a while. Yeah, and uh, but then again I just I pivoted it. But so with the zilgin episode I had pre You know written down information about like there was a assassination attempt in you know 17 whatever and most episodes though I rely on uh, the guests to be knowledgeable and then myself to just direct it and keep the conversation going and um Some of them are pretty dry topics some of them Which you kind of have to make more fun, which I think they all turn out great but some of them are really interesting and fun guests who have done like impressions of people and Bootsy with like your yeah yourself with bootsy but yeah, so uh I think that answers your question of just no keeping it on track and then they record As we're recording like literally right now. I have pro tools running I drop markers as I go where I say cut out spencer's stupid bootsy impression and um No, I'm kidding. You're gonna I know and then uh So then I go back and reverse Time so I go back to front and I make my edits because otherwise if you go front to back you make one cut and then The time is all off because you're literally altering the time you're sucking in and the the markers don't move correctly, but um Then I listen back one time and make one round of edits and then I usually Am run against the clock and I publish it at like 11 55 on monday night when it's due to be out on tuesday and um You I will say you work Extremely weird hours. You always have like you work all night and like, you know, if we're ever traveling together or something inevitably you and I are the ones up at the end of the night and uh looking through like drum videos and stuff like that to post at like, you know 10 30 11 and you're like, oh my god. I have to get something out, but your consistency has been very impressive I mean, it's that's kind of what it's all about especially with the social medias. You're always posting something cool that other people don't post well, thanks and uh, you know It's kind of funny because like, you know, there was like maybe a brief period in my life Where I'd be like, you know into going to the gym or something and I'm talking like a week When was that? There's like Like what are you talking about my gym phase? No, I'm saying it's very brief. I do like I did before I hurt my ankle I did like to run so Like I would go like in my mind like You in people who do anything like like you have to practice like you set yourself up where like You can't miss a day Otherwise it's like the end of the world Instead of like a healthy thing though. Mine has become posting a drum video every single day at like midnight um Has become my like, you know, I have to do it kind of thing. Um But yeah, social media has become a um I mean, I don't think A fraction of the people would have heard of the podcast uh drum history obviously without Me being simultaneously, you know a page on social media on instagram particularly where people uh like what I post and they see those videos and uh Enjoy it, but it's there's no easy. It's not these videos take a bunch of time to find So i'm glad people like it because it's it's work for sure Yeah, well, I mean, it's uh the instagram thing It's like it's almost its own audience because I have instagram pages that I follow that post all sort of cool world music and instruments and stuff and like It might be podcasts or not. I don't know but it's just interesting that you're providing this different media experience for different people, you know Yeah, and I tell people too because again, you know a big part of my job is recording other people's podcasts And they'll say how do I what do I use social media for how do I do it? And I have to be careful because usually all they've done I say to them You don't just want to post a picture of you with the guest once a week saying new episode is out Like you can do that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. You'll do fine. Everything's great but like Not that many people want to follow it. So I treat the instagram which is literally the exact same thing as facebook it posts to both places as a standalone like business quote unquote business Like how do you decide what you're gonna post though? I mean in a world of a gajillion awesome drummers fascinating stuff dudes playing the Tabla in india or the udu or a gem bay or something like what what are you looking for on a given night? What what do you search for? Uh, well I mean so really there's no rhyme or reason Like uh, do you follow the like suggestions mostly or you just get like an inkling and try and dig deeper No, none. I shouldn't say none, but I would say like 1% of the instagram videos are like someone in brazil will say check out this great drummer I think you'll like him you should post this I go great. Cool. Thanks. And I love it because I'm like, yes I don't have to look for a video tonight, but um So it is literally like I'll search uh, and there are some like I don't want to say secrets But like there's some stuff where like that I do where I'm like, I don't really want to tell people because it's it It's a tricky not your your system, but really though. It's like like last night. I posted a drummer from senegal. It's like you type in Senegal master drummer or you change different keywords And right and honestly where you say there's so many videos out there. Yes, there are but like I'm going to be doing this for a long time. I have no signs of stopping so the first cool one I find I download which even the downloading process and the getting it framed right for instagram and this is kind of a thing but um Yeah, there's I think I've missed three days Or four days in three years Uh where I didn't post every day Or two you can make up for two and a half years. Yeah um Like even literally being in the hospital after harry was born and I'm like, you know Even if the wi-fi is not strong enough Like we were at a cabin you and I and our wives and kids were at a cabin recently And it's like, okay. I have enough wi-fi to like post like a catalog picture and be like, what's your what's your favorite wrap Finish that's just because I don't have enough strength to like download a full video. Um But it's consistency and people like that so That's that and I'm grateful for everyone who follows and stuff because again, it leads, you know, if it leaves If it leads 10 of the people on instagram to listen to the podcast then that's great So, yeah, I wanted to have another uh, I have another question for you But real quick you mentioned that episode with the trap drummer and I just have to say that Is that the first episode the history of trap drummers? Yes Man, that's like my favorite episode. Yeah, um that one and the guy who did uh Man like the world music he talked about just all sorts of like kind of an intro to the different time signatures And stuff from Morocco to Colin You know, yeah, it was the uh Yeah, the world music when I got to look up the actual name of it, but uh, he was awesome. The world maestro was his Yeah But man that like uh that first one though It just set the tone for me hearing about it. I really learned something I Didn't know which is you know, I mean you and I are always riffing about this kind of stuff But learning about What was it the uh the block that they would hit for like gunshots sure fire shot machine or whatever? Yeah That's like the coolest percussion thing to me ever. Yeah, but so yeah, well like what's some cool stuff You've learned. What are some of your favorite takeaways? Um, well, I would think just everything drum related that I've learned has been Great, uh, I still in no way do I feel like I'm an expert on any of it because again I always say to people listening to the show or whatever like we're really learning together because I You know, but I you know, it's kind of cool though because like someone will talk to you and say You know, oh, what's this who's this person and something just kind of like It just kind of comes out of you of like, oh wait, I do know a fair amount of this from doing great 100 episodes, but Um, I don't know. I've done a lot of them I would say one of them that's just kind of like a fun one that comes to mind That was really cool to learn about was like the history of rhythm in animals. Um Oh, that was cool. Yeah, that was abby my wife as you know, spencer that that was abby's idea. Um Uh, I've just learned also too a lot about like Uh, just getting the like the technical stuff of like, okay, you need to be really clear with what you're looking for Uh, if you ask someone to do an interview you it's really awkward if you end up changing your mind and wanting to go with someone else It's almost physically impossible. So Be confident in who you're gonna ask. Um Hey, can I interject real quick back to that animal one? What what's a real quick like sentence or two summary like the rhythm of animals? So that was a really long time ago. That was with dr. Ed large I just remember feeling like it had uh, a ton of different info and that's kind of the thing I want to try and keep doing is not just do The history of Ludwig the history of rogers the history of gretch the history of zildjana, which I love those episodes, but I want it to be like Uh, you know, there was one about the youngest Uh, drummer boy in the civil war to win a medal of honor and the lady who did it was not a drummer and um She did great and it was a cool unique episode. Um, so just trying to be unique And different I think is is kind of a key thing that I'm trying to uh, Do and keep it interesting Yeah, same with Same with uh social media. I should say it's like if one night you're posting, uh you know Tyco drummers in japan then the next night should be a death metal drummer And then the next night should be uh, um a drummer in like mexico and then the next night should be Um, buddy rich, you know what I mean? Like it shouldn't be I do know it again It's funny like for I mean people that don't know us we grew up listening to literally in the car our cd while it would be Cannibal corpse the next one would be kodo tyco drumming like I mean we've been doing Listening to music from all over the world percussion Heavy music from all over the world for so many years. Shout out to cannibal. Yeah, there you go. Um so Yeah, I mean and uh things that I've learned to are just that uh, oh this is important so You Don't want to say anything and I think people who listen know that I try to be cognizant of this of like if I don't happen to like a certain kind of stick Or a symbol or whatever. I should never be like, oh, I can't believe people use those those are so bad like that genuinely hurts someone's feelings and it makes them feel dumb when they use it when um, and that the example is when uh Someone early on in an episode was talking about using um Those like plastic sticks where you change the tip and they never break. I think they're ahead. Um, I gotta look that up, but Uh In I think I said no man No one uses those for jazz and the guy literally emailed me and said I use those sticks I played jazz and I think his Words verbatim were like that actually hurt my feelings when you said that and I was like, oh my god Sorry, man. Well, I mean you got it's an interesting like I don't know powers the right word, but you got a figure like People listen to you. You know what I mean? It's not that you're an authority figure, but like It's yeah, it's insulting people really like listen to you and take what you say seriously and respect your opinion So that seems like kind of a personal attack. I get that and uh, I didn't mean to obviously And then after that you learn from those lessons and you go like, you know if someone's saying, you know If you have if whoever's playing live if a guest says I've cut things out where I go I don't think that's gonna be I don't want, you know, it was never mean, but it would be something like You know, whoever uses this brand of drums. They you know, I just I don't get it. I hate those and I'm like that doesn't Help anything And then uh One thing that that I I even said to this person. I will bring this up Um In an episode and I said I would do it in the hundredth episode I'll leave his name out of it. But one thing I definitely did learn is So as people know, there's been I really like the world war two stuff I think it's awesome. Just in general that era is cool of like, you know everyone since being a little boy just you like the army and stuff like that but so been a fair amount of episodes to talk about world war two and then there was even a couple with one with Don Bennett where we talked about um, there was a drum that's literally Gold drum covered in like 40 gold swastikas and um Like made before the war or made in the 20s. I think um Wait in america or where Ludwig made it. So it was made in chicago, but You know, uh, I think but I don't you know, even on that note Let's just so the the idea that this person raised to me was um, and he's a jewish person And he said to me that uh, we were talking about it and I believe He said the topic was handled great. He just wanted to let me know that the discussion of like, yeah Taking the power back for the symbol and all this stuff. He said I want people to know uh in verbatim. He's saying I want You to understand how absolutely powerful of a symbol the swastika is and for other victims of Nazis regardless, uh, what it previously symbolized So sure and he goes on and it's very you know, he said it's evil It's terrible and I and we all understand that it was a symbol around forever and in no way is he like Saying anything bad about me, but he said I think you should let people know that When you talk about world war two stuff and germany and there was an episode with a gentleman named fritz, um, where we talked about you know European versus your german or i'm sorry european versus american drum companies and we talked about You know that german era and then and it's just again you need to be uh Sensitive to that where I mean, yeah, obviously that's a terrible Thing that happened to those that entire culture. So it's just like It's sensitive stuff, man. I mean, it's uh, I think you handle it well though. It's uh Yeah, you handle it well. It's delicate stuff. That's very sensitive And um, I think you're handling it well Well, I appreciate it and I think hopefully people can understand that you're talking about it purely from the drum point of you The the devil himself had a golden fiddle if there were your show would talk about the fiddle You know what I mean? Yep to um bring charlie daniel's band into it. Um I like to try and involve him as much as I can So um, anyway, just I I told that listener I won't say his name that I would include that just because I think it's pretty serious stuff, but Um, yes on a lighter note though, so Maybe here I can uh, you know address because people send in episodes and I think it's worth It's I mean, I'm telling you like it's awesome people send in I probably get at least one episode I don't want to say every day, but I would say Roughly I get an episode suggested from someone pretty much every day and I frequently suggest episodes and hell you've you've done Like one or two of them and you post some stuff, which is cool that many times you've mocked me and degraded me. I just ignored you Uh, I write them down though when people suggest them because I mean seriously like someone will say something I'll go man. That's a great idea the history of Let's say acrylic drums, which did happen, uh, which the guy who uh suggested this episode who's become a good friend of the show Mark Fullerton he he suggested that he actually connected me with um, Uh, Jim D regatus who did the episode but but like let's say He said the history of acrylic drums and I went that's awesome. Yeah, great And I didn't write it down five minutes later. I would completely Forget and I would never remember it ever and I guarantee and I should apologize. There's probably Earlier on a handful of people Couple handfuls of people who where I have forgotten this suggestion, but but after you know Since the last year plus I've written them all down. Um These things take a long time to get together and to do uh The production and the scheduling and then someone cancels and they read Set it up and then like I've been saying for a while like we're gonna do the history of fives We're gonna do this we've been I just go back and forth with people and uh or noble and cooly That took a year and a half and it finally happened and then It's out, you know, it's done, but they take a long time, right One last thing that I want to mention actually, um, because we're probably getting close to the end here. Um So mark who suggested this episode was like what is up with the wacky spelling of your last name? I'm mark you you have no idea, dude. So and I mean spencer you obviously can speak, um to this but uh The way our name is spelled with it's dutch a dutch last name is a little v a n space little d e r space big z ee and it Our dad and our uncle have been very into like genealogy and our last name has like to be honest changed the way spelled like Throughout our lives, but it's been like this for a while because this is the traditional You know if you look at other people with the last name because there's a lot of people with the last name van der zee and like Holland and stuff. Um, yeah, it's that's how that's how they spell it about there's they're called They're wonder say there lots of wonder say is in holland So that's why and it's from the sea in dutch or of the sea or whatever You know, I've actually never been to holland We don't speak dutch but it's kind of like how you know Someone with a german last name doesn't mean they're like You know eating schnitzel all the time and are actually from germany. It's just your last name. Um I met dutch people though and I asked them about the spelling because I was like my mom demands It's a big v and like a regular name and they were like tell your mom. She is wrong You are wonder say and then the guy clicked his clogs together and ran away. He clogged out of the room Um, yeah Yeah, so that's that mark and it's funny because he said what's up with the crazy and he did big c little r big a Little z big y spelling. So that was funny mark. Take it easy It's not that crazy Yeah So, uh, now that you've been doing it for a little bit What do you see as the future of the podcast any cool guests coming up or interesting social media stuff? We can expect uh, well, so it is um It's always evolving. I want to be like consistent but always kind of moving forward but I don't want to change things how like You know your favorite tv show Your favorite tv show now has like a new intro or the music changes and you're like, I don't like that. Um so Want to be consistent, uh, there's always cool stuff coming up. Um, I'm interviewing actually tomorrow which When this comes out will be like four days ago, uh, which is confusing but, uh, Rami from uh a and f drums, so we're going to do a history of a and f which this one's another one that's been I would say easily a year in the making. Um And that's a newer company. So maybe dipping into newer companies. Um Oh, this is cool. So I just did one in in it won't be out Yeah, it'll be out, uh in You know again when you do these interviews like time gets weird because it's going to be a month from now But if you're listening to any year, it's 11 months earlier, but so I just did one. Um With rob heart about, uh, tony williams the great tony williams, but what he did is he Took a clinic Recording and he chopped it up and he took lessons with tony williams who played with myles davis and a bunch of people for You know and right he chopped up the clinic and we listened to excerpts of tony williams talking at a clinic in like Belgium or something and then we kind of dissected The clips and tony's lessons. So you're actually hearing the voice of this amazing drummer and teacher And uh, man, that's yeah, I want to do more of that. I think people are going to really like that when it comes out. Um That's a great idea man, because there's so many like, um, well, that's so many They're kind of hard to find but if you can find like recordings where you catch You know the engineering like okay, can you hear me letter in the booth if you get like Stuff like that of drummers and stuff that would be fascinating and I'm gonna be totally honest And there's probably other people who are like me. I don't really want to listen to a three hour clinic I want someone who was a student of that person. Uh, if not, you know, just someone who knew them to dissect Key parts and break it down. I think that's a digestible Version, uh, I mean obviously the three hour clinic is great, but it's cool to have someone kind of like walk you through it a little bit So That's pretty cool. Yeah, it's your podcast is nice because um, you don't have to be a heavy duty drummer percussionist to appreciate the stuff You're talking about. I think it's it's meant for Joe every man and Jane every woman. Um And but I I think it's cool that there's there's I've been really fortunate where there's some really big drummers who I've heard Uh, where there it's like, oh they listen to the show someone will tell me like, uh, they were like I don't even want to name them because I don't want to make them feel weird and stop listening because I love it But very famous drummers. Yeah. I've seen a few likes or I'm like, oh man Yeah, I will say instagram wise brad wilk from rage against the machine when he started Following and liking things that was like a childhood like oh my god Yeah, evil empire is the first cdi ever bought and for fourth grade. So when you told me that I was like, man When do we meet brad? We need to convert him to an instagram or a podcast listener, but that's that's the next step Yeah, brad if you listen, yeah So, um, that's it and uh, oh one thing too that there's you've probably noticed on the show people listening that there's now some Sponsorships that are coming in more like dream symbols has been on the last, you know, couple Episodes and um, it's just been really cool Uh, there's never been part of me at first was like I need to explain this to people And you know, I have to get sponsorship, but like then I was like no everyone realizes Like I do this all the time I need to literally be able to like justify the amount of time that I put into this With getting money from drum companies who want to tell you guys about their cool products So I'll think it more sponsors, you know and make it even more sustainable Yeah, absolutely more power to you sell out to them You know, I'm just kidding. No, we have to do it. It's all drum companies and stuff. Keep it going for now We'll see if zip recruiter wants to sponsor. I mean really who cares every podcast has ads and stuff So just you know that that is true. So Um, yeah, that's pretty much it. I'm going to the Chicago drum show Um, I'll be there on sunday I have to work saturday doing a vocal session and I forgot to put it on the calendar So I got scheduled so I'm completely missing half of the drum show But um by the time this is out, it'll be over and I'll be you know, posting about it on social media and stuff and uh Anywho that's about it for me. But uh, so spencer you are an artist Why don't you tell people about like, you know, what you're doing and your website and stuff? Thank you bart. It's been very fun doing this dude. I've been listening since you started this. It's been awesome to watch you grow with it Um, my name is spencer van der zee as bart said I drew tom the drum his logo Uh, and I am a muralist and artist if you want to check out my stuff really probably the best way is just check me out on Instagram, it's at spencer van der zee just like bart spells it Which is weird in dutch Otherwise, yeah, check me out online and bart. Thanks again, dude. I'm very proud of you and your your podcast is amazing I look forward to what you're going to do in the future. Yeah, and I heard minimal tent flapping. Um That's good. That's good. And I've been sucking down margaritas during this. So I hopefully I'm not slurring. No, no, that's great So you're at the grand canyon When we live 15 minutes from each other and we could have done this in person, but That's just how we roll. Yeah, I'm into town. Yeah, I'm into town All right. Well, spencer. Thanks for being here. Um, there's no patreon bonus episode this week because this is it. Um, it's gonna be You know, I think we've we've literally run out of things to talk about. Um, so Yeah, thanks for everyone who has supported the show and listened for the last 100 episodes I love when you guys and girls send me messages and say like I've literally gone through every episode Start to finish. Uh, I love when people say hey, I listen on my route As a FedEx driver. I listen out in my backyard at night with a beer by the fire Um, I'm a long haul truck driver and I listen on the road Um, these are just some examples. Um, it's just awesome. I mean, I think I listen podcasts like All day I've been painting a bedroom at my house and it's like, of course I listened to Like six hours of podcasts. So it's just cool to think People living their lives, uh with the show kind of running in the background It's crazy, man. And people feel like they know you, you know, I was a delivery guy for a long time as my my gig and uh Yeah, I listened to podcasts and you get to like know the host. So it's pretty cool that that people know you I think they really like you and they they trust you as an authority on some stuff. So good job, dude Cool. Well, thanks. I hope uh, I live up to those expectations. So Uh, all right on that note. Well, thank you for being here spencer and I'll let you get back to your margarita in your tent and um Say hey to the family for me and we'll see you when you get back in town All right, see you guys If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history and please share rate and leave a review And let me know topics that you would like to learn about the future Until next time keep on learning