 And welcome once again, Punabo Inco Taria is a civil rights advocate and is joining us. Good morning. Thanks for joining us, sir. Thank you. Good morning. Great to have you here. So, of course, it's, I believe it's right to say that we are currently in the buildup to the next general elections, and there already have, you know, been these conversations concerning what next, you know, these political parties, you know, are Nigerians tired? We do Nigerians want something different. There's going to be, of course, engineering, political engineering here and there, and one of those things are pressure groups. So let's start with, you know, the idea of pressure groups and how relevant they are with Nigeria's electoral system. Do you think that they still have any bit of relevance? Oh, yes. Of course. They have great and quite important relevance because, like, you know, resigning yourself to faith is madness, it's the critical part. And so nobody wants to resign himself to faith, especially in Nigeria, given the catastrophic leadership we have right now, and this has given rise to the various agitations going on in the country. So if you ask me, I'll tell you, bet for the pressure groups. I believe that the tyranny we're experiencing in the country today would have been worse. Bet for the pressure group. Really, we have a government that is impervious of the citizens, a government that is quite insensitive to the yenings of Nigerians, notwithstanding the hardship that Nigerians are facing. And this is the government that believes that it knows it all. So bet for these pressure groups. I tell you, this situation would have been worse. Okay, and let's also talk about the foundation of the current administration. I believe, you know, that some of these pressure groups also played a huge role in bringing the government into power. Yes, they did. That's the fact that underscores the importance of pressure groups. Because a lot of them before now, the assumption of office, of President Guadalupe, of General Guadalupe, of General Guadalupe, a lot of people felt that the PDP government had performed a piece of malice. That was the thinking. And so they felt they needed to change. Mr. Inkotara, can you hear us? All right, we seem to have had a quick glitch there with the connection. So we'll, of course, bring back, or punabo, Inkotara, to share his thoughts on pressure groups. Welcome back. I think we can hear you now. Go ahead, please. Oh, I may have lost him again. Okay. The conversation really is about pressure groups. If you followed the show yesterday morning, I spoke with Okpe and me, or Rinoa, who spoke about what is necessary for Nigerians or to be able to engineer young Nigerians to get involved with the electoral process. And some of the conversations we had yesterday were still about pressure groups. How can they put in some effort into getting more people involved in the electoral process? All right, Mr. Inkotara, welcome back. You were speaking about the 2015 elections. Oh, yes. I was talking of the relevant and important of the pressure group. I said that the result of the pressure group that Mr. President, the President, came into office. Because the whole of Nigeria, it was like a referendum of the disapproval of the system, which was the PDP system. So Nigerians in there, they changed. And they've told that the having out of that change was going to be the APC-led, the APC-government led by General Jair, General Ma'ana Mubare, now President Ma'ana Mubare. And that was my Nigerian budget for the APC to kick out the PDP. But unfortunately, if we just uphold the achievements of both the PDP and the APC, you realize that the APC has performed abysmally. The APC has performed worse than the PDP. And that is why you have this agitation that has doomed apocalyptic dimensions. And that is why you have the lives of Tunde Bakare and Kona coming out, expressing the views of Nigeria that we can no longer discern ourselves today. We must take our destiny in our hands or else we are going. No man goes to sleep with his roof on fire. And the roof of Nigeria is on fire. So we must react. And that is why you have all these present groups. And this situation is worsened by the painful blame of the tempest of justice in this country. Look at the citizen here, man, today. He's gone to cost. But look at how the CJN was removed from office. Even before they had to regularize the procedures. They had already removed him from office. He was already out of suspended before they had to regularize the procedures. Because of the bridge in particular obligation. So you find, and there is a lot of dividends in the society. You may not have hunger. The hopes of Nigeria have been dashed. The promises of the greater future as by the president have been secret. And there is despondency in the system. There is hunger in the system. And that has given rise. That has precipitated the pressure group we are having today in the country. It never in the history of this country has the tenuous figures have been so threatened than now. Yeah. All right. There's also something that is important with the pressure group conversation. And that is trust. Is there a way to measure the sincerity of their promoters? Because if you see the response to Nibbakari, and not just him, Amoy Ali-Shawari, there's numerous of these persons who have spoken. They have thoughts and shared their views on the current administration and also shared their views about new third force springing up here and there. There's still a trust deficit. So how can we measure the sincerity of the leadership of these groups? Well, you cannot really foresee because you don't have the gift of level yet. So the ability to decipher is a function of what you see and the antecedents of this character. Now, the issue of Nibbakari is making waves, creating waves because of the futility of Nibbakari, the character of Nibbakari. That is why it has generated. It's not a Ferrari that it has generated. Shorareh, yes. But I can tell you that he has appreciated because people have started giving his applications into his actions that it is more of a centric than a Christian. That's in the case of Shorareh. So it all depends. But that does not in any way appreciate the fact that these groups are a referendum of the people disapproval of the system of incompetence. So we should not take that away. That is the most important thing. And whether the people are sincere or not, I'm talking of the leaders of these groups are sincere or not. The fact remains that they are all saying everything. They are speaking in unity. They are saying what is in sync with the feelings and interpretations and understanding of Nigeria. So it is not about the leaders that say no. It is not about the present. It has to do not just the messenger but the message itself. It has to do with what they are saying. It has to do with what they are dictating for and what they are dictating against. So that is the most important thing. And I can tell you now that most of the issues raised by this agitator are in tandem with the views of Nigerians. And that is why it is happening the way it is happening today. Yeah, but the challenge with that, I'm not sure if you would agree, is when Nigerians see these pressure groups and look at the leadership, a lot of them develop cold feet because they don't want to be used to achieve the goals of a certain person or a certain group. And you've mentioned the way you've described the way the government has been run since it came into power in 2015. It also came through a pressure group. And so when Nigerians look at leadership of some of these pressure groups, they might have a rethink and say, yes, you might be speaking the truth, but I don't trust you as a person and what you are trying to achieve from this pressure group. So isn't there a challenge there with the trust? People have also said that some of these pressure groups are really just a distraction until we are able to fix our electoral process. These pressure groups are only just going to reduce the votes of one side or help one other side win. These are the thoughts of Nigerians. Yes, but I will not completely agree with your submission. Even though I agree with the ten of the government, but not with your submission. Now, for example, I might not agree with Inland Canada. The paradigm, his ways, his modus operandi, his statements and so on, which I think are uncooked and brash. But that does not mean I disagree with the ideology. That is one part of the distinction I'm trying to create. That we must distinguish between the messenger and the message. Yes. That the evils have been relegated. That the evils have been humanized. That the evils have been subjected to all kinds of injustice. It's a fact. I'm not evil. I'm a reverse man. I'm not an evil man. And I will never be part of Biafra. If today they say reverse is the fact, I don't want to do I don't do Inland Canada because the reverse thing is part of Biafra. But that does not in any way mean that what he's saying about the evils are false. So when you realize that yes, we can discard the messenger. But what with the message? We must not make Inland... I'm using him as an example. He's hypothetical. We must not make Inland Canada if today, tomorrow, you have the federal republic of Biafra. Inland Canada must not be the president of the federal republic of Biafra. You might have another person imagine as the president of the federal republic of Biafra. But he might only be the having there. He might only be the former. Notice like the people out of Egypt. But he was not one that took them into Israel. The land of Canada. So we are here. Inasmuch as we impute integrity the credibility of a lot of these leaders. A lot of them want to run us. That has not in any way went down the effect and impact of the message they dispense. Okay, absolutely. Now let's talk about 2023. How do you think or what would you suggest for anyone who is setting up a pressure group? How do you suggest that they can be relevant in the build-up to the 2023 elections and what do you think they can achieve? Unfortunately for the government. It is one government that sees dangerous enemies in the greatest struggle. And so the fight has to start not behind everything. It's a government that ordinarily should have come through theirs till the broken and ruptured nasty and not make tissue threats and make incendiary thinking. In 2023 or in the build-up to 2023 what we have experienced thus far is going to be addressed to you also. The political hostile has started. You can imagine Tunde Bakare now speaking fire and dream school all like before. These things are happening because we want to change. We don't want the APC government to continue in office. Now it is so sad that the opposition party which is the PDP is not even brave enough in opposition. You cannot even say this is good between the APC and the PDP because they are one and the same. The PDP members of yesterday are the APC members of today. Some of the APC members of today were the PDP members of yesterday. They are one and the same. What Nigeria wants is a leader unfortunately only the APC or PDP can win elections in this country because of the peccinary involvement. The financial involvement. They have the money the financial muscle and that is why they are the only one because they've been in office because they can win elections today. We have to address two major issues if we actually want a change. One, the electoral act we have to carry a massive major orientation telling the electorate yes when these people come because you are hungry collect the money from them but vote your conscience and that is where the electoral act comes in. That is where the electoral act is crucial. And it is the realization of this fact that the National Assembly members embark on traditional legislative discussion by attempting to survive in advance the will of the people with by amending the electoral act with their low powers to amend whatsoever because for you to amend that particular electoral act for you to stop electronic voting you must amend sexual subject of the of the constitution which empowers INE to show MOTO decide on the paradigm of election to conduct a regulation of election until you amend that particular act any other law that is inconsistent with that is no land void so they have to ultra-vile but in their high to perpetuate themselves in office they forgot to amend the constitution of the constitution before amending the electoral act because they know most of them know that in a free and fair election they will never win they are poisted on Nigerians this is an opportunity for Nigerians INE does not even need to challenge that just go ahead the cost is also a problem in this country we live in INE the constitution has empowered INE to decide on how best to conduct election so if INE have used electronic voting or electronic transmission in 2015-2019 or what, any year it had the power to show you but for the cost to say no it was not recognized in the electoral act it was declared case of fine so the cost is also a problem because it was a fact doing compromise doing I will say this Nigerians take the money from these money bags and vote their conscience INE has said it will go ahead it will not subject itself to the electoral act submit itself to the proposed electoral view it will not, it will go ahead and do what it did best and necessary for the country and that is the INE I love that is the INE we want and I pray that it will not capitulate any form of intimidation and it will go ahead with the electronic transmission of the law now the electorate, I plead with them I implore them to please please collect these money from these money bags these depraved characters that are accidentally distracted from the political subject collect the money from them and vote your conscience then the change will start but if we allow things to remain the way they are because no matter the agitation the agitation is going on so far in the country it is just to create awareness it is just to let the people and the government knows that we are not happy also to create awareness that things are wrong and we need a change we need a better society that is the essence of the agitation but the agitation itself will not translate into a better government unless the masses use the card the voter card to effect that desire change they need that voter card is important they must register, they must vote and they must vote their conscience nobody will know who you voted onto the results are out by which time the changes would have been done to collect this money go in there vote and work away so that by 2023 we are going to have people in power that will be there in the image of the masses and not hypocrites and not people that are autocentric we don't want to encourage the world people that are acoustic people that will ensure that the rest of the masses are distanced their own personal interests that is where we have good governors and not what we have today so by that we are going to have a change from 2023 it depends on one, the INEC two, because the electoral act I am not bothered about it because the electoral act is inferior to the constitution therefore even if Mr. President signs it into law it is not a law unless the INEC chairman is being intimidated financially or otherwise because even to remove him they cannot the national assembly has never be left the electoral the voters that is Nigerians the electorate and INEC if we must have but most importantly the electorate because INEC is just a reflection of your vote INEC will not change the results for you so the electorate must ensure that they get registered if they don't compromise their conscience they use their privacy to effect that change we want no amount, because we are never to have a coup so no amount of voters no amount of agitation will effect any change unless 2023 when we have a right the mandate to constitutionally see voting who want to vote and voters who we want to vote the responsibility of these pressure groups whoever they are wherever they are also I believe has to include encouraging the electorate to get registered and get ready to vote increasing the number of registered voters and also encouraging more and more Nigerians to get involved with the electoral process because that has been one of the challenges if you don't have numbers you can't really make a change so these pressure groups have a lot of work you don't play Nigeria because the results in Nigeria are only count I understand that so there is a methodology there is a method that is up to everywhere because it's only count so you know how infernality for you to cast a vote and the result is not the reflection of your vote I totally understand that you are not going to cast so that's why I am pleading with them and you don't blame them you don't really play that difficult in the country, in the system you must appeal to them and let them understand and give them that confidence that their votes will count it's only at that time and that is where the pressure group is coming it is not just to say Mr President is wrong, Mr President is right if Mr President decides to continue in what he is doing that is what you can do so you can infernality is convincing the electorate to go get registered and ensure that they don't compromise their plans we started this conversation yesterday I spoke with an advocate a human development advocate yesterday and we are speaking mostly on different tactics with which this can be achieved how to get more people registered how to get more people to understand the value that they have in their voters card and what they can the change they can effect but I want us to quickly go back to 2019 but there were pressure groups in 2019 there were certain figure heads that came up then the likes of Albea Zekwisili and Donald Duke and even former president of Lusio Gombasangio there were a couple of these small movements here and there what mistakes do you think they made in 2019 that they should try to avoid in 2023 to ensure that it does have some effect because it seems like all of those things have come before the elections in 2019 not really I will not completely agree with you because the 2020-2019 during elections resolved we are quite contentious you remember the issue of server, the issue of this there are some people who are talking of electronic electronic transmission of results so highly contentious I strongly believe that for the server the issue that the parties accused of me it should have been really difficult to have declared worry for worry to have remained in office so those groups and what we are having today the issue of electronic transmission of results is a function from that particular from some of those pressure groups and agitation so you cannot completely dismiss it as a failure it is not a failure it might not come to push on immediately but it will eventually come to it is a build-up it is like when you have this tent of feeling tent of feeling is not something that it is not a reaction of what happened immediately it is a reaction of the remote and immediate force so that is exactly so we cannot dismiss any pressure group we cannot dismiss any agitation because they all have subliminal effects and eventually there will be an outburst there will be an explosion every agitator is doing so sincerely and genuinely some are doing so for pecuniary reasons no doubt about that but like all of the advice people if nobody will convince you that you are a woman my brother you are a man, nobody can come and convince you so nobody needs to tell you how bad the situation is in this country our political engine is overheated social climate is sitting in front of major economic atmosphere is highly combustible that we are headed slowly for stability we are in the mood and nobody needs to tell you everybody goes to the market we pay school fees we pay electric bills even though we don't get the likes so we are all series of the problems of this country and this is a man-made problem born out of greed nobody needs to tell you to vote for A or vote for B nobody needs to tell you that you don't even need the pressure group to show you it is interesting because in countries where you have some of this pressure group one day you just get up and there is commotion everywhere there is war everywhere there is breakdown of war and all that so this pressure group is trying to develop a mitigate and sort of organize the displeasure the disapproval that is inherent in most Nigeria you cannot dismiss any pressure group whatsoever because they all have subliminal effects one day they will all be aggregated and brought to cushion open up civil rights advocate thank you so much for joining us and for sharing your perspective on pressure groups this morning truly appreciate it stay with us we are moving away from pressure groups now to another discussion we are bringing up a conversation concerning the legal options that are available to the supermarket chain and also how do you deal with a nine year old accused of such a crime we will talk about that right next with a lawyer