 This is Will Spencer from the renaissance of men here for the new 21 report with Melissa Isaac. It's nice to meet you Good to meet you. Thanks for coming to speak at the 22 convention. Yes. Oh, yeah, it was great That's the first time I think I've spoke to a group of women where they were actually receptive. Oh, wow What was did you have a title of your talk? My title was divorcing feminism. So I'm a men's rights attorney and we represent dads for the most part right you and so Well, you know, we have women that call our office and and you know, some people say well You're against you know equality for moms and we're not but you know men need a place where they can go and be completely understood And so that's the business I have built tried to build over the years What did you think of the women here? You said they were really receptive to what you had to say But there's some pretty harsh truths and the message about men's rights What was their reaction like when you share with them some of the things that you know You know I can look out there and I can watch the women and they were shaking their heads And they were like, you know a couple women said yes Like somebody said it and then you say it with with truth and you say it when being assertive because it's it's right And you know, here's the thing is I think we as women we we're biological beings just like men are biological beings and there's almost an imprint I think on our souls and on our hearts as to what what we want and You know biologically, I think we're we're created to be mothers were created to be wives And we we go against that we face a lot of internal consternation We face societal consternation and it comes out We're seeing it now right that the rate of mental illness is skyrocketing divorces are skyrocketing Women think that they're they're successful because they're their business women and they're you know educated But they're some of the most miserable women in history So we're seeing the consequences of that of us going against who we are just biologically It's pretty stunning right to get to witness that and then I can understand It's really refreshing to sit down with women who like yeah, no I get it And they're not going to come at you and argue with you about it Well, you know absolutely in in court. I will ask these women sometimes what makes you the better parent You're saying you want soul custody what makes you the better parent? They say well because I gave birth to these children. It's okay So we've established as you have a vagina. So let's get past that what makes you the better parent What makes it in the best interest of your children to only see their dad four days a month is what you're advocating for So you know you throw these truths out there. Okay, we've established that you have a giant vagina Let's let's let's get over that. We've got the plumbing. Did you just what did you just say? No? I just said what was true. So, you know, we have this the society has evolved into we don't want to say anything to be offensive Even if it's true, you can't say if you're gonna offend somebody and of course politics or politicians have gotten behind them So we're in a mess. We need to speak the truth. No matter who would offends You need to speak the truth I think some people are actually they are permitted to say things that offend people It's just that other people aren't permitted to say things that offend people. Well, that's true So let's reverse that let's say you were an attorney in court and you said to a woman, okay We've established that you have a vagina. Do you think you would be well-received probably not right? so and that's one thing I've noticed over the years to is you know my firm where we're a firm of women and We feel a little more comfortable going in and attacking these these feminist views these and I call them the feminazi views I tap, you know attacking these views because I as a woman. I don't need to be told that I'm oppressed. I'm not oppressed. I live in America. This is one of the most Privileged countries that there is especially if you're a woman. It's a woman's world and you're saying those things You go against what's shoved down our throats by the media by television programming by education By the field mental health field by the legal field. We're told that no women are oppressed women still don't have equal opportunity That's a huge lie. It's a big lie And so the women that you speak to here at the 22 convention Did you get a chance to talk to them outside of the outside of the conference room like one-on-one? If what were some of the things they said if you did? I did most were very receptive. There was one woman and actually this is before I even spoke We were coming down the elevator together and she said are you speaking today? And I said I am and she said well I just want you to know I'm already triggered by you and I said, okay. I said well, but I appreciate you still being here Feeling triggered. Okay, so I out and she read my bio. I don't know but I'm already triggered her But what I really like is that, you know, I think everybody here most of the women here say, you know I drank this Kool-Aid and then I woke up and Some women woke up in their 40s some women woke up younger where they were still young enough to have a family and sort of set aside All the superficial societal stuff that shunned on our throats But it's I see these women in a state of evolution Where there's some that are further along than others and it just yesterday the same woman who said I triggered her Tried to challenge me on a couple things and I was very direct I don't think she liked the directness of it But you know, I'm not here to sugarcoat anything, right? We see what sugarcoating does it's sort of It just it can it kicks the can down the road You know keeps the truth from coming out. So but the way I see these women As they are there in various various stages of evolution coming out of the brainwashing that is feminism. I'm triggered by you That's good. I'm glad you're still here. Yeah, we're gonna get this together Okay, have you gotten the chance to interact with any of the men's speakers for 21 con or 21 patriarchs Yeah, so I I know a lot of the speakers just from being a part of the men's rights movement over the past You know 15 years or so and these are some of the best men you'll ever meet and you know I think people people criticize the men's rights movement They'll say well They're just a bunch of child abusers or just a bunch of men who don't want to pay child support But to wife beaters, but when you listen to these men speak, there's some of the most educated well-versed Experienced men where you can ask them any question and you're going to get an amazing answer So this has nothing to do with oppression of women This has nothing to do with trying to be above a woman has nothing to do with that This is about being able to be who you are as a man express your masculinity because the only toxic Masculinity or the worst type of toxic toxic masculinity is the absence of masculinity And by the way women don't want a man who's not masculine They can say whatever they want to say women don't want a man that submissive to them They don't respect that women don't want to have sex with a non-masculine men So no matter what message is you know going at men from society. I think ultimately you look at You look at relationships Right you men were created a certain way women were created a certain way We were meant to complement each other you and I are not equal right you cannot bear a child There's there's things that you can do physically that and my best shape I'll never be able to do but it doesn't mean we have less value right because we're not equal doesn't mean we're less valuable So, you know when I was in the military I'm in the military now reserve component, but I was active duty. There were things that I physically could not do It didn't hurt my feelings and I get offended All right, I didn't raise my hand and say hey when you change the rules because I'm not able to do this I just wasn't able to do it and what I know I weighed 110 pounds There's things that just couldn't do and I really appreciated the male soldiers that picked up my slack They did not have to do that You know, I love my country. I love the military I love being a part of the military But in a sense women being included in the military have also hurt the military and you know I certainly acknowledge that so We look at the speakers here. I'm really with their message and what they're saying It makes sense and you'd have a hard time refuting anything. They're saying there like I said, they're very well educated They're well researched and they've got the experience behind them. And how about the male attendees? Have you gotten the chance to interact with them when they come up and said thank you or recognize you? Oh, definitely. Yeah. Yeah, definitely and you know, there's Some women I think because they well, I wouldn't be around that many men that would be that would be terrifying Or how can you stay around these men like they're these men are basically trying to tell you that you're not important That you're less important again I've been in this a part of this movement for about 15 years longer than that. I just didn't know it It just wasn't really organized for me but That's not who these men are these these these are men who want to be respected as men who respect others as men They respect women as women, but they just want to live who they are They just want to be a man in society and not be attacked for that some great men here What has been your impressions of the conference overall conference has been great It's been great. The quality of everything has been great Quality especially the speakers. I mean the food the camaraderie. I think it really facilitated an atmosphere of Fellowship and that's really that's a great thing about these conferences as you get to come in fellowship with like-minded people Has anything here surprised you or you caught you by surprise in a good way Yeah, I think the quality of the women who attended the conference really was surprising to me And I say that because I'm very outspoken and very direct It's on social media in the courtroom. You name it on interviews and I get a lot of backlash from the feminizes Maybe these women who who's you know, you look at feminism and you say Feminism is women are equal women can do anything they want to do they women can be business owners They have to blind a husband to pay their bills women can have it all so then you say I say well, wait a minute So I'm a business owner. I'm a woman. I'm a professional. I have a husband I'll have a child and my life is crafted along with my husband It's what works for us. So I'm doing everything you say to do But why is it I'm a bad guy, but I'm the bad guy because I don't follow their specific tenets so feminism is full of hypocrisy and so that was one thing I really enjoyed about the women Here's everyone stood up and they under they acknowledge that I mean There's some women here who say I loved I loved being in this marriage Where I'm in a submissive position to my husband good for you Good for you and that's what works for you and that's what works for women And you know being a single not sing no in a single mother should this should be completely This should be a last resort first of all single motherhood single motherhood Yeah, that's a whole nother topic we could go down but being a stay-at-home mother That's where I wanted to go sure what an honorable profession What an honorable thing to do to to serve your family and serve your children and and you know going back I was talking to some of the women say if I could go back to age 22 My perception I would never have gone to law school I wouldn't have done all these things that I did that I thought I had to do I wouldn't have done all that but it's great to see women in different roles in different feminine roles That they're proud of and you know They they talk about it knowing they're open to attacks, but they talk about it anyway It seems to me that excuse me seems to me that women Are encouraged to have choice, but they can't make the choice to be a stay-at-home mom That's the choice. They can't like. Oh, no, you have choice, but you just can't choose to do that Seems like a paradox So you you have the choice you can be anything you want to be you can be a doctor You can be a lawyer. You can be a school teacher. You can be a truck driver Never is the option given you can be a stay-at-home wife and you can serve your husband and it's okay Right and it's okay But society says you can do anything you want, but then they have a list of what's acceptable of doing anything you want But on top of that then they say you can do anything you want. Just make sure you just don't depend on a man Right well that takes completely off the table being a stay-at-home mother So you know society while they're empowering women they're empowering women away from families Away from marriage. They say wait to have babies. Well, listen, you know, we're our clocks are ticking Age 34. I think is advanced maternal age for a woman. So if you want to have a profession have a business You're saying well, I'm gonna delay all this until I have all this done. Well, this takes time And in the meantime the clock's just ticking away So that was one sad thing I heard from women yesterday is that they You know one woman said I I didn't wake up until I was 43 and by then it was too late She said she got married You know another woman said she got married and had and you know, they tried to have a baby about a year later Due to some medical things. She had to have her ovaries removed So, you know, how tragic is that? But what can you do if you're in that position other than come to conferences like this and tell other women don't wait Don't wait When you start talking to women about the situation and like this 43 year old women or women who've waited too long Do you experience a lot of grief from women and the things like I wish I had known then Yes, yeah, yeah, and there's a You know, there's so much resentment towards the feminist movement And resentment I think towards other women because women are women could be nasty Women can just be evil and vindictive You know, when you think of the word vindictive you go to the dictionary You don't think there's a picture of a man there. I mean we just we I think we understand that women are vindictive We know this and When you challenge a woman and I think this is the thing with talking about You know before the interview is being shamed feminists Are wonderful at shaming you So and as you know, I'm a conservative woman But like, you know, I tell people to say listen I'm a conservative back group in the trailer park that trailer park can come out In a new york minute So they come at me and try to shame me and I'm right back at like you cannot be shamed But that's the thing with conservative women Is I think, you know, mostly they tend to be sort of, you know, they they have their conservative views And they keep them to themselves and if someone comes at them, they would rather just walk away from a fight And there's nothing wrong with that But there's nothing wrong with the woman that stands in there either and says, you you bring this fight to my door Then we're going to have a fight And so that the defendants have been they've been very good at shaming people Shame men and if you come back, well, you're just a toxic man You're a woman but you know, they can say whatever they want to say, but you can't come back and retort what they're saying So that's another thing is, you know, we're you're We see the product of feminism. We see the product of removing women out of the homes You look at childhood obesity went up mental illness went up you And then you take Dads out of the homes and you had look at the stats from single mothers. It is atrocious Everything from suicide rates high school dropout substance abuse teenage pregnancies teenage suicides You go down the line the common denominator is a fatherless home We think a fatherless. Well, my children aren't fatherless. They see their dad every other weekend Well being dad deprived right their studies out there being dad deprived Your children are at risk for becoming these statistics if they see their father or spend less than 35% of their time with their dads All right every other weekend doesn't cut it. So We have these people like, I mean, I don't know. I mean their dad was in their life You know dad sees him every other weekend. I don't know why They turn to drugs I don't know why they're running away because they are dad deprived And so of course the feminist Completely will ignore the research and all the research is on the side of shared parenting on the side of you know, including fathers All the research is there. They won't even acknowledge it exists There's a lot of ways There's a lot of ways to answer this question gosh. I'm really sorry about my throat There's a lot of ways to answer this question But where do you think the resentment and the bitterness comes from? It's so powerful women is particularly in feminists both men and women actually Where does it come from? You know My experience with feminists is they almost they they try to be masculine They try to be something that they're not and I think that goes back to early on what we were talking about is Women is biological beings. I think it's imprinted on our souls that we are women that we are Created to be a spouse to be a wife to be a mother and we're going against that So I think there's a lot of internal head wars going on with women They struggle with themselves because we're going against who we fundamentally are as human beings as women We're going against that. I think that's where you get the resentment. You get a lot of anger and We like to blame our spouses when something goes wrong. It must be your fault you know, there's talking with a A great guy a great husband a great father a couple weeks ago His wife blames him for everything that's wrong with her nevermind She had psychiatric hospitalizations prior to the marriage nevermind. There were suicide attempts prior to marriage never Nevermind. She had these issues that she brought over everything is his fault and what I find Horrible to it is detrimental to societies. We think we think feminism is a mindset for women Okay, feminism is not just a mindset for women feminism has spilled over into the field of mental health It's filled you know spilled spilled over into the field of law But let's look at mental health. So women will go to a counselor and say I just I don't know What's wrong? I mean something's something's missing, which is weird because I have a great job I make a lot of money, you know, my husband makes a lot of money I just I don't know that there's a whole line was let's look at your relationship That's the first place that counselors usually go. Let's look at your relationship Where you don't know the psychology of the counselor and if you have a feminist which most of them are A feminist might convince her, you know what this relationship is the problem? You're not being fulfilled when really it's her. It's the way she's living her life So you can't trust counselors. You think I'm going to go get professional help You know, I'm getting a phd right now actually in counseling and we had a Of course because of the covid we had a zoom class and the Feminist Conversation and the agenda that was coming through the computer to turn my microphone off and challenge everybody there I said, listen, I'm you know, I'm paying to be here. I'm paying for this education You're not going to force me to drink this feminist bullshit, right? And it's liberty university. They're very christian even at liberty. I was shocked and here, you know, here's the thing is You know, I I could have gotten reduced tuition coming to the state of alabama or free tuition But I went there for a reason And I was very disheartened on the that conversation. I will say overall the program has been great The the professors are they will acknowledge the roles of women, you know, biblical roles And that's why I chose that university but there was a moment. I had to stop and say I'm not This is indoctrination This is why I came here not to experience this. So it's everywhere. Wow. It's everywhere It's kind of it like seeps into the culture. It's like in the water in a way. Exactly Exactly. It's everywhere. So for before I met you I thought your actual last name was savage because I'm here over again Unless Isaac is savage. Melissa Isaac is savage like Isaac is savage. Is that her last name? Do you do you enjoy being savage? I enjoy being who I am And I think society says okay for a woman you are soft-spoken You know women are Women are a certain way But then you have feminists who try to be very masculine But they're very shaming. So I love coming back with that and say okay First of all everyone in this room has a vagina. Okay, so don't think you're special Oh, and by the way this man you think you're controlling with your vagina There's a lot of other women out there too. So let's put that aside and let's just talk Let's talk educated And let's talk statistics and let's speak research And they they can launch personal attacks and that that's fine. It doesn't faze me But I love having the ability to come back with intelligence assertiveness And I can match them. All right. They want they want to come at me I can match them and I love having that ability because that's who I am That's who I am and so as far as being savage I think that their reputation kind of came up because I say all the time like I don't give a shit Okay, it's hard to shame somebody when they don't care, you know you you have this I don't care about maintaining an image. I don't care about maintaining You know, I've gotten complaints to you're an attorney. You should not speak that way. Okay I'll say whatever the hell I want to say. I still have a success. You can't tell me You're explaining to me. I have a first amendment right to say what I'm going to say So, you know the feminist will they've they've attacked my page. Um, you know, I've gotten Bar complaints things of that nature and I will say what I want to say if I can't sit here with the knowledge that I have Not just knowledge, okay We're not just talking about reading a book and getting experience and reading stats This is my personal experience as well. Don't tell me women don't lie because I've sat in the courtroom and I've seen it Don't tell me women don't make false allegations because I've seen my mother do it to my father Don't tell me women don't use their vaginas to manipulate man because I've seen my mother do it So, you know, and I was told at a very young age on my mother, right? If you don't have sex with a man, he's going to leave you What kind of a mother would tell their young I have two, you know, two sisters There's three of us. What kind of a mother would tell their three young daughters? Right to to and I and what I call it is that there's there's really two classes of women What I learned at a very young age is that you can be a warm wet hole Or you can be a woman who really empowers and really adds to a relationship You know, you have a a man who has a good woman just you can catapult it I mean and and that's both of you and I think what women don't realize is but I'm not going to support you So so you can go be something big. Why not because he's taking you with them You can have this this this great wonderful life But learning at a young age where I could be the type of woman that has a warm wet hole Well, I can try to control you. It's a very short term. It doesn't work anyway But women are taught. I mean you look at look at the commercials you look at look at the catalogs, all right Women are a certain way women use their sexuality, which they do women use their sexuality to try to control men And so I learned from a very young age. This is not who I want to be Sex is not something that's going to be the only thing I contribute to a man or to a relationship But there's a lot of girls out there, especially raised by single mothers that men contribute financially. That's what they do Where you know her listen to I'm sure we all have but these mothers tell their daughters girl You go do your thing. You go do your thing, right? You shake that moneymaker So I've learned very early on. This is not who I want to be. It's not who I want to be and You know you can have these experiences and if you don't share them It's almost having them in vain and that's what I like about coming here Is you have these men who say that this is who I was and this is who I thought I was going to be And this is what happened as a consequence of that This is how change and this is who I am now and don't make this mistake these mistakes that I'm making So and that's what we need to do a society, you know, if you think about life life is a series of relationships That's all life is life is not about degrees is not about piece of papers You know, you might meet certain people along the way But life is a series of relationships and if you are going to put people in categories, especially women, right? Well, I don't want a man unless he makes x amount of dollars I'm not going to date a man who's less educated than I am and so, you know, my husband was He's a retired fireman. Didn't go to college, right went through fire school and You know, I have Two master's degrees and a law degree and I'm getting this phd now, which means nothing, by the way Like nobody ever revered anybody because of formal education But you wouldn't believe the backlash I got from my acquaintances my friends. Okay, they're not friends acquaintances in the legal field that say You're really going to marry him. I mean he cuts grass on his days off Yeah, but let me tell you something about him. He may not have College education, but he can build anything. He can fix anything I don't have to lift a finger in terms of I've never I've never mowed the grass Because we've been together, you know, we've been married now almost 11 years. I've never mowed the grass I take it back one time. It was a zero turn. I ran over bushes and he was like, that's okay, baby so but I mean I have this I have this life that Is great It works for us And the fact that he doesn't have formal education doesn't make him any less of a person Any less of a man definitely in fact my husband possesses more masculinity than any man. I've ever been in the courtroom with So but society tells us women right that that there's certain there's certain categories If you're gonna a good husband has a good education. A good husband makes a lot of money Well, and I can tell you folks, right? I've represented a lot of people It really seems to me the more education that some of these guys have The more issues that are going on behind the scenes as well because they've also bought into this This societal Dictate that says to be successful. You have to have this you got to check these boxes on a piece of paper, right? You got to have a good degree got to make a lot of money Gotta have a big house Okay, you got to have a hot wife. You got to have this you got to have this and then they're drowning over here They've got so much debt their wife is coked out on xanax, right? Because she's more worried about how much collagen is in her lips than she is like actually raising her kids, right? The kids are all in therapy. They're all messed up So but they check the boxes of what society says that they should be happy So you just you got to put all that aside. You really do you can't listen to what the media is saying You can't listen to what your own parents are saying sometimes unfortunately So we have to do better as parents. We have to do better And you know, my children are six and eight. I have an eight-year-old little girl I have a six-year-old little boy one of the boys the youngest yellow belt, right in his um karate class and You know one thing I tell my my little girl too is Here's the you know, what I'm gonna digress from it is I see a lot of things come through my office Of course being a men's rights attorney The number of men who are abused by women is astronomical and the latest statistics are there's actually more men Who are victims of domestic violence than women, right? So we have this whole industry that says otherwise But we have women who think it's okay To when they're mad yell and scream and call names. You're just a fucking loser All right, why don't I marry you? You're just a piece. I could do better. I deserve better, right? I should there to be I deserve to be treated like a queen Right, yeah, you do absolutely nothing to justify being treated like a queen But these are the messages that we're telling that we give our daughters Don't settle you can do better. Don't rely on a man So i'm not doing that with with my little girl. I don't do that You know we I openly compliment my husband Or you know to my children in front of my children say I'm saying even you know my little girl's name is even doesn't the grass look great and your daddy spent about four hours Right, wow grass. Look at the fence that daddy built. That's great. So I don't want her at all growing up thinking that a man is somebody who wears a suit and tie every day and pays somebody else to cut their grass like that's And if that's her perception one day, then that's fine But not because I shoved anything down her throat, you know, but That was that's never my perception of of what a masculine man was Because you know, I can tell my husband I'm not sure I'd like to have this and he built it You know, I said I want a fireplace. He built a fireplace their house, you know, it is and it's it's nice It's so wonderful. He's not hung up on money. He's not hung up on material things, you know My husband, you know, where where's cowboy boots and car hearts and he loves every minute of it We have a little farm that was always his dream was to have a little farm And we have that now and our life works for us and it's wonderful and I stay away from the lawyer scene I don't go drinking with them after hours I mean I stay away from all of that because I have a good thing and I realize that it's mine to lose Basically have a great life and it's mine to lose. I have it. I've already got it So society's not going to tell me that I need to be like You know sex in the city That you know, I need to starve myself down to nothing and you know have indiscriminate sex with you know, most strangers It's never been but a lot of girls. Unfortunately. They're watching that and they're saying man, I would Man, I'd be you know, I'm not gonna eat for three days. I'll fit in that dress. Okay. Will you go with your starve self? I'm not doing that I'm not but so that's the thing is I think we really need to do a better job as parents Relaying to our children. What's important in showing this respect showing mutual respect and giving him credit Where credit is due and you know, my husband's retired. He actually he stays home with our kids and runs our little farm And and he loves it. He absolutely loves it. And so And it works for us. It's not True traditional, but it is it's not traditional, but it is but it works for us So what would you say to a woman who's considering coming to the 22nd convention either? She's sympathetic through the ideas or she's challenged by the ideas, but something's calling to her. She just can't quite pull the trigger What would you say to that woman? I would say likely if there's something pulling at her there if there's something wrong in her life She's probably explored different avenues and there hasn't been a solution And we're torn. I think as women say, you know, I want to be I want to make sure I want to be successful I want to make sure I can support myself But I'm not happy doing that. But how do I do it? There's women here that are doing this There's women here that I figured that out figured out that balance And you know, I used to work because before my kids were born I mean, it was nothing for me to be at the office for 70 or 80 hours. It was nothing and then this last week, you know I think I went in two days You know, I'm able to juggle this I'm able to fulfill the needs of my family while still having a profession And you know, I've had this conversation with my husband if my job gets to where it's interfering in my family Right, we're not going to move closer to my job. So it's easier. I will cut back And I think that's part of me getting a phd is where I can now I mean, I can work from home All the time and I can't do that as an attorney But back to your original question You can come here and you can talk to other women and you can say look I I can't figure I haven't figured this out where somebody can say, you know what? I was exactly where you are four years ago And this is what I did. This is what works for me and you might have to You might have to cut back and take a you know cut and pay who cares It's money It's money Big picture money means nothing because I know a whole lot of people with a lot of money and they're absolutely miserable So if there's a woman that's on the fence or she's intrigued by this Definitely come and check it out. I think you will be impressed very impressed Where can people go to find out more about you and what you do? um, well Website is protecting men.com. We're on social media at isaac law firm attorneys for men And that's probably the best place to find us. Thank you so much. Thank you. Lovely talking with you This is will spencer from the renaissance of men here for the new 21 report with melissa isaac is a savage