 I found this recently. It's quite nice. So once I actually start presenting to you and talking appropriately, then I'll be able to do my presentation. Here we are. So this is a revision of a talk that I give every now and then. You can see I've crossed it out. That means it's new. And if you're a follower of zombie movies like I am, hopefully you get the idea of Day of the Donkey. Like it's one of the better ones. I think that's the one where they have a clown in the missile silo that's a zombie, which is great. Well, I'm going to go over what I'm going to go over briefly. But I guess this is the last talk. So usually what I like to do with my talks is not so much inform you what to do, but to give you tools to go back to inform other people. I guess that's technically evangelizing or whatever. I'm just trying to proselytize the movement to you here. So as we go through a lot of these things, some of it may be things you've heard or repetitive, but I try to package it up so you can take it back to people who you think need help being went over to doing things as you like them to do. And there's lots of links and dense stuff in here. So if you want to get the slides, you can go to the link there and you get a bunch of other pivotal stuff if you're into that, but you can download the slides and check them out and have a good time if you can't read my infinitesimally small text. So I like to begin with conclusions. That way, you know, you can leave or use the restroom and also it reminds me what I was going to talk about. And so let me go through those briefly and then we'll detail those out. And as we're going through the presentation, hopefully you can keep these in mind. So if you get lost, go back to the conclusions. And that is what I see as was mentioned, I was an industry analyst and I worked on strategy. And nowadays, a lot of what I do is I try to explain to the business world why, you know, why they should buy pivotal products, obviously, but why they should be interested in new types of doing things, whether it's DevOps or Cloud Native or whatever you like. And it's always good to have, if you remember that phrase, burning platform that the Microsoft people or the Nokia guy had a while ago, it's good to have a reason to do something other than just gratuitously doing it. And we'll only touch on this briefly, but it's pretty evident that the moment businesses are craving pretty much IT that isn't as awful as it is at the moment, right? They want to evolve their business models and do new things. So they're desperate, these businesses, all these people in these big fancy towers around here in your lovely city. You know, they want to start using IT in new ways that they're seeing all these, I don't know, unicorns and Uber type people doing it. And, you know, for various reasons, that's not really working out for them. So I think that the ideas behind DevOps and the broader idea of Cloud Native, which is a fun phrase that's been bandied about recently, these things have actually been going quite well to fix that gap. And there's lots of great predictions. Now that I'm not an analyst, I can acknowledge the existence of other analysts. There's predictions of lots of penetration, lots of spread of DevOps, which are great and very encouraging. And I think the technology at this point actually works pretty well. If you get the technology fit together. So technology's not the problem. It's really, there's a lot of meatware issues that we come up with, which we kind of talk about incessantly, thankfully at DevOps days. But a lot of what I want to focus on is like some of these common meatware issues that come up once you get technology in place. And, you know, as mentioned, mainstream IT is not working out too well. And when I go over the meatware issues, there's about five of them down here. Like I said, I like to put a lot on slides. But essentially, I think it's good to think about the big picture, right? We were just seeing like value streams and keeping your eye on the largest prize instead of locally optimizing on things. And similarly with your technology stack, it's good to be aware of that. And also, I'm finding as I talk with people more and more about doing things in a new way that management really needs to get its act together. They're really like behind the times as far as figuring out what I do with this new tool. So we'll talk about some quick tips of what management should be doing more of to make sure that technology is working out well. As I like to joke, it's not just you bought this fantastic Ferrari and you're just using it to go buy milk at the grocery store. You should have bigger ambitions than that with your Ferrari technology. And part of that is making sure your organizational structures match. And that's sort of an obvious throwaway thing to do. But because I work at Pivotal now, I talk with a lot of people who are going through this transformation so I can give you a brief insight into what those organizations are looking like and how they're crafting them to match more of a DevOps kind of cloud way of doing things. And finally, there's one other piece of advice that I would give to you guys and that is to like, and this was just gone over in the previous talk, is it's good to start learning business stuff and speaking that language. I think it was Nietzsche who said, be careful if you stare into business, it'll stare back into you. And it's good to let it stare back into you. So hi, this is me, in case you can't tell. I actually got a great intro, so I won't really have to go over this to establish my credibility and bona fides and all that nonsense. But I've been an analyst and I've done corporate strategy and M&A stuff. I live in Austin so I did my compulsory tour of service at Dell up in Round Rock there. I do a lot of podcasts if you're interested in that. Usually I haven't had as many beers the night before so my voice sounds a little better, not as scratchy. And every now and then, I guess monthly I write a column on DevOps stuff and you can catch up with all sorts of things I have going on there. And I'm always, as I'll emphasize again at the end, I'm always happy to talk with people about all this stuff. I really, aside from my family, I have no hobbies except computers because I'm a thrilling person to have at your party. So if that's the kind of stuff you like to talk about, then we should band together because there's only about five or 20 of us in the world who like to talk about nerd stuff like that. So speaking of nerds, that was a serendipitous transition. Let's just quickly dip into that void of the business world and see what's going on there because judging from the way most people are, what is courtiering or addressing themselves around here, not a lot of business folks here, but it's important to know what the business is, the people with the money, what's going on in their heads because they're sort of the customers for many of us, what we're doing. So we would hope that they want us, us more Lockean people in the IT world and that they kind of have a clue that they should be doing something interesting with us other than making sure they can schedule meetings and get their email and that their hard drives are backed up. And indeed, this is a great time. This is going on right now. This is the CEO of JP Morgan Chase or JPMC. And this is, you see quotes like this or I see quotes like this a lot because I seek them out. But this is from his annual shareholder letter, which is kind of a quaint word for a very high stress PDF that they put out. And essentially, I've kind of compressed the quote, but to put it in my own words, he's like, there's all these tech people coming, the Silicon Valley mindset and we're gonna kick their ass, because we're not gonna put up with them taking over our business. And this kind of like aggressiveness from non technologies is encouraging for us. It means if you see more of this out there, there's more pull to start using technology to do something new and interesting rather than just sort of not acknowledging it exists. And we see this now, especially at Pivotal all the time, many of the companies who work for us, like they always use Uber as an example. So it's like officially five minutes and 59 seconds, I think that took me to mention them. And that's kind of their example of like what they're trying to avoid. They don't wanna be Uber'd, they wanna Uber themselves if they will. And that's, you know, it's a good goal to have and it means lots of computer stuff is needed, which is great for us. And this goal is shown again in charts, right? Like as I was mentioning. So I kind of overused this chart on the, what is that, the my right side, I guess that would be your left side. And but it shows that being a company listed on the Fortune 500, so being on the S&P 500, being on top is really hard. Like way back in the Don Draper days, you could just kind of rest on your laurels, right? You could last about 60 years on there. But dramatically, and there's little curves and blips and everything, but you can see that it starts to go down that your ability to last on top has dramatically shrunk. Now, computers aren't gonna solve all of that problem, but it does mean that businesses are desperate for anything to survive, right? To make their line longer than the norm there. And obviously, as mentioned earlier, they wanna go from this sad state to like this media, this crazy growth that's rumored for Uber to have. And I think they have some more updated numbers. These are several months old. But like that growth in revenue for something as like boring as a taxi service is like mind-blowing, right? And it's all because of computers and programmers and all of this stuff, right? Like it really is just a car service with a nice app, right? And the cloud stuff to back it. And companies realize that they can start to do that if they know how to use all of this correctly. So to further drive this point home, you can tell I worked in strategy because I use a lot of charts to make my points. So kind of always select the chart that you want. But there's a couple of things here, but it's obvious that when you go out and survey the market that businesses aren't getting what they want from IT. Like it's not really working out. It's not moving fast enough. And this one over here is somewhat depressing. Basically 75% of people surveyed, and it's a pretty large survey if you look up the end. So it's credible, I would say. They don't think that they're doing agile innovation well enough. Now I guess you could needle it and be like, well maybe they're doing unagile innovation perfectly fine. But you know, good job. You should have a job in making charts. So, but this other one over here from the Cutter Consortium is actually, it's even better in that it's much more depressing like this little dude up here. And you can see that IT playing a key enabler for business innovation has shrunk. Like it already sucked back in 2013, right? Let's say 50 to 60% of people thought that IT was helping them out. But look how long, how far it's gone down in the preceding years, right? So collectively, we're not doing a very good job, right? Like we need to up our game and everything. Now, thankfully, like lots of people here, like DevOps is a great way of thinking and it really is sort of like the beginning of the process of a secret tool to use to really close that suckiness gap, right? And there's great predictions from Gartner, right? That you're gonna have 25% penetration, which means, it doesn't mean market share, it just means at least one person at that place is using it, right? It's been penetrated. It's a terrible name, but there you go. But you can see there's also this other gloom and doom here, right? This is sort of like the reverse open-face shit sandwich if you will. There's good news on top and then you're pooped down there. Which is to say that like, they're gonna screw up, right? Like not everyone's gonna be Colonel Hannibal there or whatever with his like corrugated steel like welded onto a van and be able to figure it out. Like it's gonna blow up in their face. Be bad, be a one-term president, so to speak. And so, you know, what are we gonna do is essentially to save the donkeys, right? And so here, let me just explain what I mean by donkeys. So we've got this terrible situation where IT's not doing as good as they can. There's this thing that looks powerful, this DevOps and cloud and everything. How do we help them out, right? Well, first, I think as always when you're doing something new, it's good to be humble and realize who you are, right? And also realize who most people are talking about so that you can kind of catch up on things, right? So pretty much everyone talks about these guys or maybe that's a lady. It's probably better no gender ascribes themselves to these people. But essentially you've got these unicorns, right? Like they can do everything, they're awesome. They have, they like, they come up with cool stuff. They talk about it all the time. Like they're people, you know, speaking on diocese like this or however you pronounce that. And you know, they just like, they don't really seem to need money or work by the normal rules of reality, right? And I mean, they're awesome. They come up with lots of good stuff. Now somewhere in the middle, you have like these, I don't know my French very well since high school, but you've got these like war horses, right? And those are a little more solid in that they have lots of, they make lots of money, they're big companies. They sort of have the resources that it takes to become better, right? So they still need a tremendous amount of help but they kind of know what's going on. These are the companies that have been around 20, 50, hundreds of years. They like know what's up when it comes to survival. And then there's the rest of us. We're like these donkeys, right? And all we're trying to do is like get a carrot and stick it on our head and pretend like we're these people over here, right? Like we would be happy to just be able to deploy every month, right? Or like there's lots of things we would like to do and we're kind of like stuck essentially. And so most of what I'm interested in and again what I wanna try to help you guys to take back is like these folks over here, like we sell a lot to that middle category, right? So they know what's going on but these people over here they kind of take care of themselves but our caratid friend over there need a little bit of help, right? So we need to go out there and sort things out for them. And just in case anyone is insulted I went to a third party, one of my colleagues who is trying to explain I'm not insulting people by calling them donkeys. You'll notice I put myself in that category, right? Like donkeys are just real people with real problems. And if you don't like being called a donkey you could call yourself a goat. There's a wonderful podcast, the goat farm. Goats are wonderful animals. They got those funny eyes, they'll mow your lawn. They taste great, very multi-purpose, right? So donkeys kind of just do one thing. Goats are much better. Call yourself whatever you want. You could just call yourself a person. That works too but it's not quite as fun. So let's look at donkeys, right? A lot of the donkeys are like this wonderful piece of clip art. They're kind of like lost in the early 2000s, right? They're sort of like this binary matrix they're going in and they're like they're so proud of themselves, so sassy, right? Like they're figuring things out. They got these logos but in reality they're this IT department of slow and no, right? It takes like six to 12 months if not more to get things out. Businesses struggle to like figure out what to do with them and they basically treat them as a cost center, right? Like it's like they just keep their email up and I don't really understand why I would give these people money, right? Like these are the donkeys that we need to help. This is some excellent work that I did there. Very proud of that on an airplane. So I would argue that nowadays as I was saying a lot of the technology stuff like works. You can make terrible technology choices or spend your time on the wrong stuff but the tech works pretty well if you get the right stuff in place. And when you go out and look at surveys this is another pretty legit survey I think it's got MIT associated with it so that must be legitimate. You ask people like what's holding them back from sucking less or however they word it up there nicely from taking advantage of digital trends like because I guess you're done with analog ones. But if you look at all of these like you can tell that most of these are not really tech problems, right? These are all what I would call meatware problems like people and process issues which is what I see all the time like nowadays and in past years is the technology's not the issue, right? And I think this is like a great example of why it generally drives me crazy that at these conferences we talk about culture all the time but I'm warming up to it because it's pretty much like that's what the issue is. And also I just use Comic Sans as a font there. So congratulations to me. So let's look at what happens when you've got a meatware problem, right? That's causing a technology issue and I wanna use this analogy of the urinal. Now for those of you who are not familiar with the culture of the men's room these are urinals and it's an alternative mechanism for evacuating your waste product if you will. And these are particularly awesome ones. These are older ones that the gentleman and otherwise in the room will recognize some of these. The only awesome one is like that floor length one. You see those at Costco. Those are great. But these are pretty cool, very retro, right? Like they almost have mustaches. But they're basically like bathtubs for babies and they take up a tremendous amount of water. And if you look at this, you'll see that someone has strapped these sensors on top of here, right? So they're like, oh, we should have sensors to like, you know, save water. And they like basically half-assed it. And like there's still like this gallon of water down here instead of saving water. Now our goat friend, Michael Ducey reminded me that maybe it was just to like, they put that there to make sure it doesn't smell well enough, but he's always ruining my metaphors. Let's just pretend it's to save water. And the issue is like, so the process of like thinking all the way through what the problem wasn't how to solve, it wasn't really focused on enough. And they ended up with this kind of half-assed solution quaint as it is. And you see that over and over again in the cloud space, in the dev out space in the technology world. So this is just one quick slide, one survey from a Gardner conference. And it was asking like, it's kind of a loaded question there. Like what's going wrong with your private cloud? Now maybe it means they should have asked public cloud, maybe nothing's going wrong there, but the green part that's usually means good. Only 5% of the people were being successful with their cloud project. And again, if you look at the areas, the reasons, most of them are not really technology based. No one has like, didn't work. Like it's just like we're doing the wrong things and therefore we weren't being very successful at it. And this is just one slide, but I would see this over and over again. And I still see it where you put something in place. It's that Ferrari to get a gallon of milk, right? And you don't really think about, now what do I do that I have this in place and how do I change it around better? So what you wanna do when you're in a situation like that, when you've got these water consuming urinals or these Ferraris or the what nots that are being done is kind of step back and think about why am I using this technology? What are the goals that I have? It's like, I hate going to a financial advisor. The first thing that I was asked me is what my goals are and like I tell them like, if I knew I wouldn't be talking to you. But in this case, you know, it's good to know what your goals are and focus on it. And that is, as I'll get to, let's think about, so if you wanna be like our buddy Jamie Dimon up there and start harnessing to use a fancy word leveraging or using computers and software to change how your business runs, then you're really wanting to become basically a software company. And the way to be a software company nowadays is to get to the point where you can release your software daily and you get a feedback process in place. And all this wonderful stuff that we do so you can focus on really like design, so to speak, and make sure that your software does something your users want, right? Which is always the biggest risk with the software product is like, oh, user didn't actually want this, bummer, right? Like, so you wanna put something in place that allows you to run all of that and also be on this quick cycle for doing things. And, you know, you wanna have your mobile app and run it at scale and all of these things kind of coalesce together to really lead to the need to have DevOps and also all the stuff that DevOps supports behind it, right? And it's almost to that point where, as my little disclaimer appears as more or less, where I start to think of getting continuous delivery and DevOps as the same thing, right? Like, they're not really the same thing, but it's sort of like, would you have each one of those without the other in most cases? Like, probably not, right? Like, continuous delivery is like this goal that you as this software defined organization that we're talking about has. It's like, I wanna get to the point where this is on at least a weekly turn, right? Where I can deploy new features into production and do all sorts of things. We also have this magic feedback loop so I can increase the quality of my code, right? So, and this has actually been gone over in several talks. It's like, I would start to conflate these things more and more together just to simplify it for everyone, right? So, I'm in marketing, in case you can't tell. And, you know, whenever I go and talk with people, like, continuous delivery is like the hole that people want if you know the shovel hole metaphor, right? Like, we sell them all sorts of stuff, other people sell them things, but really what they want is this. And however you fit into helping them out with that, like, this is the hole that they essentially want. So, I wanted to give everyone a mental break here. This is an obligatory slide break we're gonna have. There's another one later on in the presentation in case you need a rest. Here's some silos. That's a joke I stole from Damon Edwards. So, thanks to him. Anyways, let's check in on how it's going. So, how's this going on transforming people to be a software defined business, as I like to call it, or you can call it a cloud native enterprise, but it's just sort of like using custom written software to change how your business is doing and try to beat that decreasing survival curve and like make IT less lame. There's a couple of things to look at. First, if you sort of accept the premise that when we're talking about DevOps and cloud stuff, we're talking about putting continuous delivery in place, a really easy dipstick, so to speak, might be to look at, so how are we doing of getting continuous delivery in place? And on this side, I've lost track of which side I should speak to, but over here, you got this sad donut, right? Another sad donut going on. And this is a survey I did back at 451, or all of us did. And as you can see, we're asking people, what C, continuous integration, continuous deployment tools are you using? And there's this weird, almost 30% of people, red is bad, in case you don't know, who like are doing nothing, which if you think about it, I forget when the continuous delivery book came out, but it was definitely in like on the internet, which everyone should read if you haven't checked that out. Talking about continuous delivery for many years before that, it's like a best practice. And for this amount of the market to not have it is astonishing and depressing. It's a pretty small survey, so it might be flawed, but then there's, look at these people, that's great. There's like 30, 25 to 30% who are doing something. And then there's always these people who've built their own stuff. I'm sure it's working great, right? Like I'm sure everyone, I'm just probably a lot of build people in here, so I'll be careful, but I'm sure everyone loves their build team, right? Like they're always doing great work with the tools that they have. Now I think a better survey, it's always better to see year over year and D-Zone has a survey that I like to refer to here. They're sort of like people who believe they're doing continuous delivery and that's improving, right? Like 2015 is on top, 2014 is on bottom, but when they use a more stringent set of rules, I think it's kind of like the Martin Fowler rules of doing continuous delivery. You see that while it is improving and that's encouraging, there's still not that many people who are doing continuous delivery. So we need some accelerants to like speed this up, right? Cause if you can't really be doing continuous delivery, you're probably not going to, what was the phrase? Have agile innovation. You're going to be back to waterfall innovation, which I don't think is going to work out in the business climate nowadays. And anecdotally, this is sort of like what I encounter in companies that I go visit all the time, right? It's just like very depressed, not very happy, very self-reflective looking at themselves and they're very apologetic. They're very good at telling you why they can't do anything and how awful it is. So, you know, we got these E.O.R.s running around and happy coincidence, E.O.R. is a donkey. I verified this on Wikipedia. So, you know, it's as E.O.R. is fond of saying it's not much of a tale, but I'm sort of attached to it, which they're sort of like, we need to raise up their spirits cause they're the ones who need to fix the problem and make things better, right? But they really, IT people are not happy. So, how can we help them? What can we do as a DevOps community and sort of like computer community to help the E.O.R.s out? I guess, maybe we wanna turn them into Tiggers or something, which is also an imaginary creature that causes lots of problems. So, we probably shouldn't do that. But we just need to improve them and help them, you know, deliver on that, help their companies deliver on that dream of being a software-defined business. So, I'm just gonna go over a few things that I think would be helpful at this point in time. So first, and this is sort of like a vestige of me going a little crazy when people only talk about culture at DevOps days, is I think it's good to spend time clearly talking about the tools and technologies that you put in place to do all of this magic, right? And this also comes from having been on both sides of, well, I guess there's three sides. There's users, sellers and analyzers, if you will, of cloud, and like, for so many years, no one knew what the hell they were talking about when they wanted to do cloud, right? And we, on the vendor side, were not very helpful, right? Like, we didn't really clearly explain to them what it was and how to categorize it and things like that. So, I think it's worth spending a lot of time saying, as one of my former bosses used to say, this is what's on the disk. Like, he would say, like, tell me what is on the disk, right, we would tell him all this cloud stuff and he wanted to just know a bounded thing of it. And this is a model that we use at Pivotal, kind of explain everything that's going on. And you can see we like the cloud native phrase, very popular phrase. I think I could put in some clip art from Zoolander here if I was feeling feisty. And you can see on top, you've got frameworks, right? Which kind of decompose into 12 factor apps and microservices. So this is the way you develop software so that it works in cloud and you can get towards that continuous delivery thing. And then you have a runtime underneath here, right? Which does all of the orchestration, as people commonly call it, runs your middleware, makes everything cohesive and running together. Does your security and access like all this stuff that you need? And then underneath that, you have operations which layers on top of the infrastructure, automates things, configures it, make sure that it comes up and down and when it should and so forth and so on, right? So this is kind of like including the culture part which I'll get to like the whole stack of technology you want, right? So don't obsess about anyone layer too much. Like keep your eye on the big picture of stuff, especially when you're trying to explain to people that this is like all that we're gonna need, right? Like a bathroom is not only a toilet, right? Like it has a sink, maybe some subway tiles. It might even have a shower or a tub, like there's a whole thing going on there. And then underneath that, as I'll get into with much of the rest of this, is you need to have an empowered culture. Now getting to that point is difficult, right? But you need to be aware that just putting the stack in place isn't really gonna get you all the way. You also need to think about how your culture, how your meatware stuff is really using and taking advantage of that stack. So we have another fancy diagram here. You can download the slides that kind of, again, this is a very pivotal bias view, but it kind of lays out like, here's all the stuff you would be worrying about in that stack. And this is just a lovely slide that one of the guys on my team that I work on, Casey West put together. And it outlines kind of like the 12 factor things in there and then what you want at the infrastructure automation and the runtime layer. But again, keep your eyes on that big picture of the totality of everything that you're gonna need. So getting on to the meatware stuff. Like I was talking about in the conclusions, if you remember way back then. Management, I've been noticing recently, really needs to sort of like step up and get more involved. A lot of management, and this is like another talk I always wanna do, is focused on like decision flow. Like they want people to just bring decisions to them. I'm sure none of you have this problem. And they just wanna make a decision and then like hit the links, right? Like they just wanna decide things. But really what we need in this new sort of cloudy era and doing DevOps is management has to be more involved day to day. They have to be the ones who are leading change management, setting goals and culture. I mean, dare I say it, they need to manage, right? And metaphorically it's sort of like there's probably some people who play Dungeons and Dragons here, right? Like imagine if you didn't have a DM. Like I don't think that would be fun. It'd be kind of weird. But management, think of them as like the dungeon master for setting up the game and doing the boundaries and kind of bringing everyone around, right? And eventually you can sort of move to the self empowered team that can run itself. But you kind of need management to do things. And in this cloud era there are, it's a lot of change management and again setting goals that they need to do. And just to make a reference, there's this great book that came out recently leading the transformation. And it's written by someone to reference the HP firmware person who works at Macy's now. And it's the second book that person and probably will always forget the second guy. It's sort of like, you know, two people wrote the microservices thing but everyone always just says Fowler. But it's a great book by that same person and his buddy there. And it really goes over what management should be doing in a DevOps world. Not really what non managers should be doing. And this is a bit of an older book from 2010 but my friend Israel Gatt, there's a lot of really good management focused stuff in this book. And both of these are pretty short and they're good to look through. And just to plug my own stuff, I'm writing a blog series, basically going on what the cloud journey is when you're transforming and how to deal with stuff. And so I've been dumping a lot of things in there as well. Now the other thing, kind of outside of the box of DevOps and like coolness that needs to happen is someone in your organization, probably management, has to start getting really good at portfolio management, right? And you've probably heard about like Bimodal IT and Legacy IT and all the EOR stuff of why I can't do something, right? And so before you start off in doing your highly innovative DevOpsing cloud mumbo jumbo, you're gonna have to like free up resources both in money or not, it's more than both. It's in money, time and corporate attention. And chances are like this is just one model you can kind of look it up that our EMC buddies do in one of their teams is you need to look at the whole portfolio of the apps that you have and optimize the crap out of the stuff that might make a lot of money but doesn't require a lot of attention, right? So you might decommission things, highly virtualize it, move it to AWS or whatever but you wanna just like shove all that nonsense away so you can focus again, red is bad, green is good. So you can focus on the green stuff and buy time to be innovative and focus on things. And if you don't have portfolio management going on in this kind of switchover, you're gonna hit all sorts of problems because you're always gonna have some other, someone else's hair is gonna be on fire and it's gonna catch to your hair and you gotta somehow isolate, at least isolate that person if not put the fire out or I guess you could be completely bald and avoid that situation. So like I said, I was gonna go over some emerging organization structures that we've been seeing. And this is, you have to pardon this clip part, I tried to shrink it to be representative. This is what we've been seeing a lot and when people use our product and competitors and other people who are doing more of a cloud native approach is that a lot of the functionality gets up at the app team, right? And this is where your DevOps team are where it's important to think about it in the sense of it's people who have skills from all the way from the UI layer to UX to understanding like how networking works and the implications of doing your various crazy, like the infrastructure implications of doing all of your application development all on that one team. But it's also a team that's empowered with a product owner and they're very like self-directed and self-contained. And in companies that I look at who are successful, they don't just like think that that's a fancy thing that they hear that you have these two pizza teams, like they actually do it. Like they combine teams together and they're operating that way. And again, this is why I went over portfolio management, right? Like you manage your portfolio so that you buy time to do all this fancy, unicorny type of stuff that sounds like it would be time consuming. Now underneath that, I went over like what a cloud native platform is, but you end up with a platform, right? And we talk about a lot of that stuff here at DevOps days often, right? Like you've got obviously some hardware or some sort of infrastructure. You've got to manage the operating system on that. You've got to manage the software you want deployed on there. You've got to manage how your application is deployed on there. And then if you're using a bunch of services that work together for identity or a recommendation engine, you've got all these services you need to manage the orchestration of, right? If you remember SOA, like those concerns still exist, how to manage all those things. So you kind of end up building, hopefully you end up building a platform that does all of that management for you so the people up on this side of the cake can just focus on doing the application development instead of building platforms all the time. And then once you have like a highly automated cloud platform, this is where the interesting part happens that I think distresses people out a lot is you end up needing less and less solely developed operations people, right? Like this is the great thing of cloud is it basically manages itself. And we see like, I always forget the ratios so I won't quote them, but there's orders and orders of magnitudes of different ratios of the number of admins you need to manage cloud base things than regular. And that's a big change for organizations that it may seem intuitively obvious and straightforward to people in this room, but for many organizations they don't know what to quote unquote do with all these operations people. Now they should like move up the stack because their skills are needed, right? Like they're very sorely needed up here. Like I used to be an application developer. I don't understand how all that stuff works, right? Like I just write my crazy JavaScript and my little things and mobile apps and I need someone to read man pages to me at night to explain how the world pans out. So that skill is needed essentially but again, I think this is worth going over because your organization is gonna need to change over to take advantage of this Ferrari thing that you have. And here's our friend again. We saw him in the previous presentation. He's great, right? This is sort of like the last part that I wanna emphasize is as you start to get better and better, it's probably a good idea to figure out what these crazy business people with their wonderful hair are up to, right? Like why is this guy so happy? Like what makes them tick? What do I need from them? What do they need from me? Like how can I start facilitating and working with them more, right? And again, when you read kind of like over the past decade the case studies of companies who are highly functioning or whatever the puppet study way of putting it is or who are these software defined businesses, they're very tight with the business. They're usually pretty lucky because they're in the consumer space and everyone understands retail, watching movies, sharing photos, like so you can all dog food yourself. It gets a little more difficult if you're in weird industries but it's really important to understand like the business stuff and not feel like you can be ignorant about that. And if you need to kind of engineer it out, you think about how you can start programming the business. Like programming infrastructure used to be a boring topic for people who like to program, but now it's hot, right? And start thinking about how I could program a business essentially. And it'd be great if you can expand the land grab out and out, right? They used to be developers, then like XP and Scrum came along and took over QA and then they kind of took over product a little bit and like we need to keep having that circle go out and out more until we get more and more into business. So before I wrap up, I have another break for you. Another obligatory slide break. I'll just let this stand on its own. If you're interested in helping people come work and being a secret ingredient, we're hiring. You can email me, I'll get a referral if you're a key hire, I mean a referral bonus. So that'd be great for me. But yeah, it's a fun place to work and we do all this kind of nonsense. So thanks for having me here. It's really a nice city. I was looking out there at the river, it's like very picturesque, like the color of Poseidon's eyes, if you remember that. It's nice, these buildings are great. I always enjoyed talking with people like I was saying and I'd love to talk more about any of their reactions or topics or findings that you have. I do lots of podcasts where I kind of interview people about just what they're up to and so I'm always looking for people to be guests on that or just chat with people and if you come by our booth over here, you can get a free book that kind of goes over the programming style and microservices and things like that and we've got all sorts of stuff at our microsite. You can engage with us till you're red in the face or whatever or satisfied and you can get the slides or an email me and with that, see everyone next time. Where can I find you, where can I find your podcasts? Yeah, so if you go to cotay.io slash podcast, I think you have to do the plural, I should check that. Squarespace is good at URL mapping but they make case important, which if anyone works at Squarespace, you should fix that because that's asinine. But yeah, if you go there, you can see the various podcasts that I do. The main one that I do nowadays is called Software Defined Talk and I do it with an IBMer and a Shepher, I guess. I don't know what they call themselves. Yeah, and yeah, it's more or less weekly. We just, we talk about the tech world. The last one was called the Software Nihilist so maybe that like gives you a taste of it but yeah, I'd love to have you listen to that and tell me what you think. Thanks, Cote. Well, thank you.