 Welcome to the Monday, June the 3rd, 2019 meeting of the Mypealier Design Review Committee. Now we'll have staff and committee members introduce themselves. Liz Pritchett, Meredith Crandall, staff. Steven Everett, Benjamin Cheen. And unless anybody has anything to offer ahead of time, do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? So moved. All in favor of the agenda, raise your hand. The agenda is approved. We can actually move forward to the first application for Sam Shippey for the canopy signage. If that's you, come forward and have a seat. Thank you. I'm Jim Dupre. I'm with Black River Design. And go ahead and describe this as on the awning that was previously approved. Yes, so at the time it was approved, the logo or the print on the front of the canopy wasn't included in the submission. So this really is to just get this in front of you folks showing what the image would be on the front of the canopy. And also their intent to put a couple of small lights on the awning to illuminate the sign. They're not. If you look at this section here, there's just a small image that shows it kind of projecting off the front. And then the next page in actually shows that fixture. Does it project off the front? How many inches? So 24 inches max would be the thought. The arm comes in a couple different lengths, but actually labeled 1-6 on the section, but that should be 2 foot 0. So basically when it's installed you can work with it to go from say 16 to 24, whatever seems to work best. Or will it be specifically 24? Yeah, this particular fixture has two length arms, so it's either 24 or 12. So we probably start with 12 to see if that could do a good enough job lighting the sign. It could be a little less pronounced, but if the beam needs to stick out a little further to illuminate the whole area, then it'd be nice to have that luxury, I guess, to go to the 24. And what color is the fixture itself? That would be black. Okay. Goal to keep it sort of sleek and thin and the least obvious as possible. Well, it also doesn't detract from the visibility of the sign either by having a lighter color canopy. And this may not be an issue, but I'm just sort of curious, Meredith. This feels like a unique way of lighting that I don't feel like happens in the city, but off the canopy sort of projected off the building. So I wonder if that is fine. The canopy itself is a little unique. Yeah, it's true. There really isn't much of a precedent in town for that. A lot of the businesses that have awnings that are sort of retractable also have a sign band above so they can mount some pretty good size and kind of light that up. This property doesn't have a sign band above the awnings. I think one good thing is right next door is the Necky Restaurant and there's a few different sort of permanent awnings that sort of project out and the one that covers the seating full-time has some lights that sort of drape from it. So that might help sort of blend in with the surroundings if you would. Yeah, it just sort of feels like this thing is a projection and yet another projection put onto it. And that's sort of where you come into play. At any exploration done about it, just a very subtle wall wash light that would wash the wall and show the sign instead of coming out and pointing back at it. You have two eyes sticking out here and here. I was wondering, tucked up under there, I'm assuming, I can't tell from the picture of the awning. I'm not sure if there's like an overhang where the roof of the awning meets the face of it. Right there. If there's an overhang that you could take a small strip there and wash light down. Like an LED strip. Looking at this section here it seems like there is no overhang in the awning. That's right, yeah. There's no overhang. You know, trying for the 12-inch projection might be the closest to kind of doing a wall wash, if you will. That looks like it's from the wall. Looking at the final projections. Well, that's in the light, in the angle of the different angles, right? There's not such a one particular angle. That's right, you know, it can be rotated. Explore the idea of having a sign band just out of curiosity or just above this? You know, it's kind of a historic building and it was under a historic designation. And so I think, I don't know the details of that. I don't really know either. Consider it appropriate or not. We're not permanent necessarily, but yeah, maybe this is less of an impact. It's hard to do that. Right, right. I don't think I would say anything to induce that thing sticking out and get more of a wash of light. Right, right. It seems preferable to me than continuing with this projection. So just out of curiosity, has the state and the parks have seen this, that they approve it? That, I'm not sure. I know that sort of the awnings and canopy got reviewed earlier and approved, so I don't know if that was brought up then or... That's right. Oh, okay. That's right. Yeah, yeah. It was actually the logo on the front that was missing from earlier discussions. Well, Ben, we could look at a different fixture that might, or we could try the 12-inch stem if you're okay with that, or we could look at something that kind of hugs the canopy and washes down a little. Let me do just a nice thing and I start 12 inches. That's right, yeah. I don't know if this is treading on thin ice, but this is a black canvas with, I assume it's white, just kind of painted lettering on it. It's an applied graphic. I guess what I'm getting at is it would be interesting if it could be backlit, like if the lighting was behind it and then it... It would be kind of neat wanted if you could do that. But we have a band against it. Internally illuminated. Plastic. Plastic signs. We've done some backlit signs like the bank has lettering that's off the bank and this lighting behind it. Yeah, I did that also, but I don't know. I feel like that would be it. I don't, you know, like looking at this elevation. I think it is a nice graphic. I think it is a nice low light. So I don't think it could just be black. I mean, I think the black lights would blend in with the black canopy and not really the black. That's right. I guess the graphic to locate them was to help just kind of identify that they were there and not necessarily... I understand. But they're not, like, if they were in this elevation, it would be interesting to sort of... It would help, wouldn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It does. And I'm assuming that those light fixtures will have to be mounted off of the frame somewhere in here. Obviously it's not going to be held up by the canvas. That's right. What they're going to do is they'll put some horizontal backing members in between the verticals. Mm-hmm. To allow them to sort of spread the fixtures where it's best located rather than just on the posts. And to give them a little more surface area for mounting. I mean, there's... What we could do is either recommend the 12-inch to minimize the projection beyond the awning itself. Yeah. Or to give you the option of a black wall wash, flush mount wall wash that you can mount into either of those two locations. Sure. To wash across the sign if you found something that you liked better there as you started holding them up here, holding them up against the awning and looking at them. That's right. That's right. We could certainly see what's available for that type of fixture. These look like four and three-quarter-inch square plate on the arm, like on the base plate. You got to hold it to the arm. I'm like, you know, the base plate over there. Yes. It looks to me like it's a four and three-quarter-inch square plate. Okay. It seems like that's going to eat up pretty substantial amount of real estate on that side. So one thing I noticed, Ben, is I think this graphic here was maybe a little earlier that they'd applied the signage on it before it was maybe true to scale. I think there's maybe more space. Yeah. So in the dot locations, but those should be blown up to be four and three-quarter-square. That's right. So we're fourteen and a half from the top of the sort of eyebrow to the top of the canopy. Yeah. And I don't know what size those circles are, but I think that's a good point. We should lay that out at the right size and the right spacing. I mean, at the end of the day, we're just trying to give the best illumination of the sign, right, and make what's illuminating it go away. Yeah. I see that. So if there's a fixture, you know, that's kind of canopy designed to kind of sort of hug the canopy and put some light down, I think that'd be a perfect solution. Do you know, does this say what the wattage is on each of those fixtures? So that's a good point. We were noticing that today that we'd highlighted on one of the later pages the 3,000 K temperature. It's 8.8 watt. Which was... Which is an equivalent of about a 50 or 60 watt. Yeah. The lumens were... 81 lumens, it's not... It was pretty low, so we were actually hoping to jump up to the 4,000 temperature, which is probably a little more appropriate for the use. Which still, if there was two of them, your total is maybe 60 watt incandescent equivalent, something like that. 75 watt. The 3,000 or 4,000 is okay. The 8.8 watts, that's basically the equivalent of about somewhere between a 50 and a 60 watt LED. So recommending if they use the projecting lights, that they be a 12 inch. Yeah. And I do like your idea that it could give something... More integral. Interval, too. Yeah, yeah, sure. Just kind of tacked on, that was part of the whole... Yeah, yeah. We'll definitely look. Yeah. The hours are killing me. Yeah. Dragging the next day sometimes. Yeah. So what I said then, just based on the feedback that we were getting, was that the recommendation is that the maximum length of projecting arm LED fixture be 12 inches. And then you have the option to mount any flush LED fixture, fixtures, or fixtures at the top of the awning arch to provide a wall wash lighting effect. Okay. Yep. All makes sense. And again, you guys can play with that to see if it, you know, is going to do what you want it to do. Okay. Sure. Because sometimes as much as you design, it doesn't come out sometimes like you well know. Don't we know. That's right. Okay. I'll go through the criteria. Design review standards, preservation or reconstruction of the appropriate historic style if the proposed projects in the historic district are involved in historic structure, acceptable. Harmony of exterior design, acceptable. Compatibility of proposed exterior materials, acceptable. Compatibility of proposed landscaping, none proposed in this application. Prevention of the use of incompatible designs, buildings, color schemes or exterior materials, acceptable. Location and appearance of all utilities, acceptable with the provisions that we outlined. Recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant investors including gateway views of the city and state house, acceptable. Conformance with city skate placement and design recommendations, acceptable. Compatibility with subject property and adjacent properties, acceptable. Shall not obscure significant architectural details, acceptable. Consistency and uniformity of multiple signs in CB2 and OP districts, not applicable. Illumination, it's acceptable with the provisions. Penance and banners, not applicable. Individual letters of fixed painted or engraved directly in the building of structure are encouraged. Sign is acceptable in this location. All in favor of the application proposed raise your hand. And I'll get you to sign this one above my name on the left hand sign there. Okay. Thank you very much. So thank you. And kind of hoping to run something by you while I was here tonight. I don't know if I could. So this is an informal review of something. Well, it's kind of a informal re-review of something. So there was a couple of DRCs ago. Jay was in for the back of the shipy Alvarez building for some storage units. Yes. And some ground mounted compressor stance pressers. That's right. So the river hazard regulations have asked kind of require that these be elevated about 4.8 feet. So goal would be to build racks for them to lift them up. And we wanted to see if the DRC had any comments or concerns. You approved that being lifted. You did. Okay. Okay. So what is the good? We're hoping that the racks plus like oppressors wouldn't exceed the height of the storage roofs at its height. I'm not sure what it's close. Okay. Because this is a sloped roof. Yes. I think the tallest compressor tends to stick above it a little bit, at least from a perspective as you're rounding the corner. I don't know. You'll see it above a little bit, I think, but. Yeah. Okay. Does any snow or ice dump on those from the building adjacent? The building adjacent. No. I think there's a sloped roof, but it's further towards the river before it starts. Okay. I think it's a flat roof above it, Steve. Okay. Well, that's good to know. I wasn't sure. After last winter. I agreed upon. Yeah. After last winter, a few people have rethought about either their location or protecting where to put them. Right. Because the ice had fell on a couple of them and crushed them pretty good, especially when they're using them as heat pumps for the winter and locating them in the summer. The ice dent interferes with the operation of some fans inside. Okay. Super. Okay. Do you know how long we're going to wait? Basically, they would be here by six. It's not quite six. Good. Yes. Review the minutes from five, 20. And we actually have enough people. Yeah. I was going to add our special meeting minutes, but we don't have enough people to do that. And then we'll just double check and make sure that we haven't had any problems with that factor getting locked again. Questions, changes on the minutes. Nope. So we're here in motion to approve the minutes of May 20th. All in favor of approving the minutes. The minutes are approved. Just a little note that if any of you can think of anybody who might want to and be willing to be on the development review board, we're looking for two members. So hopefully to beat the bushes. Two members for the development review board. Yes. Who left or did not get ready? Dead Markowitz left and Tom Kester had to leave. He moved through. She got a job out of state. Where's she headed? She is doing, it's an organization called series out of Boston. Wow. So she'll be still living up here part of the time. Residents must be a good group. So she can't, she just can't do that. So we lost two really good people. Yes, you did. Two just circumstances. So both of the, what's left of their terms need to get filled. Well, you can just stay here. You know, once this one's over, you can stay for another hour, half or two or three beyond. Sounds great. You worked my, my Monday schedules. I hope they pay you well. It works. I earn comp time for anything over my allotted part time hours. I'm going to go just check my voice mail downstairs. Okay. I don't give out my personal self. Everybody has traffic in the garage. People come in and go in. Is it fairly quiet back there? It's really quiet. And that most of the parking for that building is out behind the building. So people drive down and turn in back where the, you can come back. He's here. Okay. Sorry about that. You can come up, have a seat. And our staff member went down to check our voice mail to see if you were on your way. So she'll be right back. Six of them, I was just looking back five weeks. Steve Williams was not well. So he had a doctor's appointment at 4.30. So from Rutland to come here at 4.30. Wow. He's not less than six. One hour and a half. Yeah. Sorry, I do have your number. You gave it to me. I did. You're sorry. That's my office number. Well, whichever one. Yeah. No, that's perfect. Okay. Go ahead and describe your application. One is for painting. So paint will be this one. Light will be light. Same color on the existing what we have. So this is what Steve told me that we have to get one sample for you. You want to keep it. You can keep this sample. Okay. Thank you. So it will be just copy the old color to new color. That was it. How similar is it to the existing color? Same color. Same color. Same color. So I took the old sample and gave it to Sherman William and they build on. They have some instrument, you know, they put under that and they get the same color. Matching color. Okay. It's from Benjamin Moore. Yes. If you decide to go in that same color, but shade or too dark. You certainly feel free to do that. The darker the color, the less started shows. Yeah. Because you're on a street with a lot of traffic. A lot of traffic. Again, this road work, which happened in the past, has killed us. Business wise has killed us. We lost at least 75% of the business. Wow. Bikers have not done it. We lost at least 75% of the business. Wow. Bikers have not come. A single biker this year. Not a single biker. Yeah. We had a very good biker business. You know, bikes. It's still winter. Yeah. But I'm just talking, comparing to the other places when you've seen Ludlow, when you see somebody going to Hilltop and not coming to our place. I'm comparing that way. Okay. So that was the first thing. And second thing was lights. Last time we had a proposal for lighting, which was not good because it was facing towards the road. So now the Steve Elias has come up with the proposal. Lights facing towards the building. That was the suggestion last time that we should go with the poles and put the lights on this side. But we were running out of time. Winter was coming. So we thought, let us start again in next summer. Quick question. Yes. You're showing an exposed pressure treated post. What size is that post? I think it's 4 by 4. 4 by 4? Yeah. And they are 16 foot high and 4 feet will go in the ground. So above ground will be 12 feet. It seems unlikely to me that those pressure treated posts are going to stay very straight over time. Yeah. I think they're going to. No. Hilltop has the same one. And I think almost 10 years have passed. And they're still straight. They're still straight. You know, you're going to paint the post like a black color to match the fixture. If it is not in this, okay, but we'll paint here. Okay. We can give an option to paint the post. So black. Because the natural color has its own decency. You know the prestige wood? Yeah. The natural color has its own value. But yeah, if you painted it, it's better. If you painted black, black tends to disappear. So that between the black post and the black fixture at the top. Yeah. What you're going to see is you'll see right by that to your hotel. Sometimes when you do a color that's different, other than black forward, you notice the post and not what's behind it. The idea is we'll put it black. I think this time he's planning to bring the iconologist sign in the center because previously there was an old building and there was a sign in between that. Now old building is gone. So that sign as it is will come in the center of the property. Yeah. And luckily, you know, we have that circle in the center in front of the property. So we already had that center. So we should use that. Yeah. We thought of using that center point for the iconologist sign. I think I talked to Steven about the sign change needing to be a separate application, but we can talk about that after this. Okay. Because the design, since the sign itself isn't changing at all. Yeah. Not really a design review issue. Yeah, we can discuss that a second. Okay. Because that'll be just downstairs. Yeah. Okay. We are more concerned about the parking lights. That is what we fighted. We fought for last whole summer, you know, without any success. Because luckily, you know, we have not got any incident. But if anything happens, it'll be a big issue, you know, at that point. New lights are going to shine down. Is that what you said when they don't come out? Last time also they were down. This time also down. But last time we were trying to put the lights on the wall. So basically there was complaint from the residents that they will be seeing the light. The light will be like this light will be facing them. I see. So now we are planning to put the poles. Yes. And we are putting the, trying to put a light on the poles. So that light will be either facing the road or will be facing our property. Right. Not the road. Yes. Main road. Yes. That is the only difference. This time we are trying to do that. When you move the sign, will there be a different base for the sign? No. Right now sign is on a concrete, like just base, concrete base. And this is a metal sign, metal T, and it rests on the concrete. That's it. But if you move it, if you move the sign from here to here, will you put a new concrete base there? Yes. Yes. Okay. Like we have a circle in the center, where right now we will grow the plants and flowers. We will create one small square concrete and pick up the sign and put it there. And then the base on the other side will just be taken out? Taken off or we will leave it like that. We will put flowers in that. So that's also a rectangle frame. It can be made a showy, you know. If we put some flowers in that, it can look good for the property. Is that sign currently in the driveway? In other words, if you remove that, does that give you better access over here? I think the road is next to the sign. So first it will be a road. Then a sign and then our wall of the property. Yeah, if you take out that everything, your road will be wide enough. But still you have a other part of the property, your own property, which is empty right now. Okay. You can build another road on that property. Yeah, but if whatever you suggest, if you say take out, we can take out. But we will not leave it like that. We will put some flowering on that so that it looks good. Yeah, whatever, I mean, it's existing. Whatever makes your property look cleaner is only going to be to your benefit. So that is why we just right now plan to pull up the sign and put it in the center. Leave it that space as it is for the flowers. Okay, we'll just give you the option. Okay. Your idea is okay if we take out that item, we can increase the width of the road. Our entrance can be little wider. Whatever improves the property. It makes it simpler to maintain, whether it's flowering or whatever. I think it would be happier to remove it. Yeah. And then that way with that gone, then it gives you the driveway here, a clear driveway here. At least give us five, six feet more. And then you have... Because that box is just three feet, but you still have the space on the right. And then you have the two lawn areas here. Yeah. And everything is sort of contained in this area as far as the maintenance goes. Yeah. The base for the concrete, base for the sign yet. Could you give me the option of incorporating like a planter into the sign, the base of the sign for the flowers there? Yeah, certainly. If you're looking for a landscape, a place to put in season of flowers. Well, you can either build as part of the base or you could put your base for the sign and then just landscape around the base. Yeah, I'd give them that option. Okay. And then they have the option for some flowers there. No, center will have flowers. Okay. The center round is, I think too big. The radius is, I think not less than five feet radius. So five to six feet radius. So you're talking the sign here or the sign here? No, it will be here. Okay. Because this one says here. So you're actually saying the sign will be here. Okay. Yeah. So again, the existing sign base may either be left in place or totally removed once the sign is relocated. And the new sign base at the new location for the sign may either be constructed as a planter for shrubs, flowers, or be constructed for a landscaped shrub flower area around the base. Either way, I mean, either way, it'll hide much of the base. And so it'll give you a sign just with some landscaping around it. Yeah. That sound okay? Any other questions, comments, suggestions? Okay. We'll run through the criteria. Preservation of reconstruction of the appropriate historic style of proposed projects in the historic district involves an historic structure. I'll just say not applicable in that area for that building. Harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district acceptable. Compatibility of proposed exterior materials acceptable. Compatibility of proposed landscaping acceptable. Prevention of the use of incompatibility signs, buildings, color schemes, or exterior materials acceptable. Location and appearance of all utilities acceptable. Recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vestments including gateway views of the city and state house acceptable. And again, one of the options slash recommendation is the pressure treated of four by four light fixture posts maybe painted black to match the LED floodlight fixture attached. Yes. All in favor of the application to raise your hand. Thank you. And you can sign that one right above my name on the lower left there. Okay. Thank you. I could keep this one. Yes. Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming. For the second one, it didn't mean for 30 minutes. No, but it did work. Okay. Good. Thank you. Good luck with your project. And unless anybody has anything else to add to your motion to adjourn. So moved.