 So. All right. Ask them to try again. Angela, do you want to make the co-host with Paul so you can. Leave us. I have to do that. Actually. Oh, you have your host. Okay. So I can do that. I'll make Sean and you co-host. Took the heads up. I'm. I'm going to try to leave at nine 45 unless there's a quorum issue because I have a. Okay. Another meeting if I want to make. Okay. I see Alicia is in the outside. Paul, we have to bring her in. Okay. I'm not. Oh, I am co-host now. Okay. Two. Three. Four. Five. One. Two. Three. Mike said he was going to be a few minutes late. And here is Mike. Okay. I'm not too late. Okay. So. So Angela can't, can't make it and Phoebe can't make it. Just, I just got heard from Phoebe, something came up and. Allison said she'd be joining late because I believe this is first day of school. Mike is. Second day. Second day of school. All right. So she said, so I'm just counting one, two. Three. Four. Five, six. We, we. Oh, Tammy is here. Okay. We have a quorum. So I will start the meeting. Good morning, everyone. It is Friday. August 26. And this is the elementary school building committee meeting. And seeing we have a quorum, I'm going to call out the members names to make sure everyone can hear and be heard. Okay. Present. Jonathan. Sean. Here. Mike. Here. Tammy. Here. Simone. Here. And Alicia. Here. Welcome, everyone. I think we'll. Sean said he, let me see it's, is it. Not quite a 30 yet. It's eight 34. Eight 34. Okay. My. Sturdy watch is five minutes wrong. Okay. So I'm Sean said he needs to leave a bit early. So I'm worried about losing a quorum. And I see Rupert and Ben are not here yet. So I will make sure to announce them when they appear, but I think we'll start Margaret. I think we're going to have a little bit of time. I think we're going to have a little bit of time. If you want to just a quick review of the agenda. And I, Angelica asked me. About the schedule looking forward. So I'm going to send that out again to everyone, but we'll try to post it on the project website. And also the main. She. Of the committee. So if people lose their schedule, they'll at least know what days. I think we're going to have a little bit of time. I think we're going to have a little bit of time. I think we're going to be making the same thing. I think we're going to put it on the landing page. Of the website. So that. Anybody who's like, I don't remember when the next meeting is, and I do have it to quickly pull up here this morning. So. Okay. So. We're going to focus today on looking at some. I'm sure very exciting work on the building and site plans. Starting to talk about materials and elevation studies. And the, the daylight discussion and zero meeting. And Sean, I don't think there are any invoices to look at today. Correct. No, I don't have any. Yeah. So hopefully we can make sure we get through all that before you have to go. So just quickly for everybody to toggle. The content of these meetings has moved around a little bit. So don't focus on the content. But the, what I wanted to point out is the next. Two months are kind of super important in terms of the amount of content that's going to be presented. And as a reminder, we have a meeting on the 16th. Of September, the 30th. The 14th. And at that point, believe it or not, we're doing estimates for schematic design. So. I just want to say I reserve the right. That we may need to interject another meeting if we've got more content than we're getting through, but that's the plan at the moment. Okay. So I'm going to turn it over to the dinner scout team. Okay, Tim. One second. I'll share my screen. And Kathy, just to note, Ben is here now. Ben, I'll just make sure you can hear and be heard. Welcome. Thank you. I believe I can be heard. You're good. Thanks. Okay. Okay. The presentation is laid out despite the agendas that we were going to start with. Exterior material examples and precedents and. Have a discussion about. Other buildings. And just so we can have a conversation and get a sense and feel of. What your thoughts on our, how the building is going to look, what it's going to be made of and what the experience is out. And that's what we're going to be talking about. And that's what we're going to be talking about. And that's something that some of you saw the materials. And construction of other elementary schools. But we also have photos of many of our and other architects buildings. So we can. Understand what. What you're feeling before we start. The whole design process. These are photographs of facing school, which we visited the palette that has various materials. So we're going to start with. And then we're going to start with. Vivian will jump in. But this is. Mainly brick. There are. Ground face CMU panels. Windows in the classrooms with accents of metal panel and curtain wall. You can see the entry that is. Covered by a canopy. With structural steel. And then. And then also accents of. Other brick colors within the masonry. I would like this to be discussion. So I'm going to call on Jonathan. Yeah. It did. For folks who. Who didn't get to go on the, on the tours or, or. That won't necessarily have. You know, my experience with different building materials, it might be good. But I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Any slides just kind of point out. I mean, I think Rick is fairly obvious to people, but like the. The metal panels or the other kind of. Kind of rain screen materials we're going to see later. You might want to just kind of with the cursor. Know what they are. So that folks can kind of differentiate. Sure. Thank you. If I could. I'm happy to interject and talk a little bit about Hastings. And why we used some of these materials. And I'll just keep it brief because we've got a bunch of slides. So on Hastings, we wanted to evoke. Kind of the traditional school feel with the traditional red brick. This looks much more orange. Then it is in real life. So it's also very large building. It's 110,000 square feet. Really a little long when you look at it sideways. So we wanted a way to break up that really long form. So with a brick, we have. Ground face CMU. So on the lower right hand corner. Under the canopy right back there is ground face CMU. And it's a very durable material that is very cost effective as well. Really nice. And for those of you who went on the tour. We like to use that on the interior of the gym as well. So there's no maintenance in terms of having to repaint. These surfaces and they hold up very well. And then on the left hand side photo on the lower, yep, right where Tim's cursor is, that's a porcelain rain screen product. Not inexpensive, but very durable as well and really holds up. Well, you know, our concern is if there's graffiti or marking or dirt, it really is easy to clean and also easy to replace because of the very modular system. And then finally we use metal panel kind of sparingly it. You know, when we use it, we are very careful not to bring it all the way to the ground, because it's not the most durable. It gets hit. If there's snow, snow blowers or snow clearing, it just wouldn't hold up. So we always try to create a base of some sort. And usually the ground face CMU. And then, and then I guess I just also want. To just kind of point out that. We can do different types of design or features to break up the scale. You can see the CMU, right? We've modified. There's texture to it. And same thing with the bricks. So we can get creative. And I think we have some other slides that will show, you know, it doesn't have to be just a solid face that we can. In a cost effective way, try to accentuate or break down the scale of the building. Okay. Yeah. So as you go through these, one of my questions, you've used the word cost effective and inexpensive or more expensive is varying it. So on these pictures, we have one. Two, at least three different kinds of material and. Three different bricks. If I'm looking at three different bricks. So does that increase the price of the exterior by going from. Red brick to a darker red brick to a yellow brick and. You know, so it's, so just giving us a sense that if we. Do one variation, but use it more carefully. So that's, I'm just trying to be. And I don't want to lose durability and I don't want to lose maintenance. I don't want to lose durability. I don't want to lose durability. You know, easy to maintain durable. And the metal probably has some feature. Feature to it. That's useful. So that's my question. If you can point that out a little bit to us as we, as you go through these. So, so with the brick also there are different size bricks. That have different price points with them. I don't know about that as well, but we used a Norman size brick, which is longer than your typical modular brick. So in terms of putting it up, it took a little less time. So by nature of that, that saved a little bit of money by breaking up the pattern. Of the brick and having, you know, the ins and outs to create a little bit more texture. That adds a little bit more to the unit cost. And then looking at a building of the size, it really is not effective. It doesn't really factor in. It's kind of an average price. Did that. Go ahead. I was just going to add to that, that there is a difference between colors and materials, and there is a little bit more laborer in terms of the corbelling and the texture, but none of that brings the brick, let's say to the price of some of the other materials. I mean, each material family has a general cost. Brick is probably the most cost effective of what you see here. The curtain wall is the most expensive. The panel on the porcelain are in between those, I would imagine with this, the porcelain is closer to the curtain wall than the brick. And the panel is somewhere in between, probably a little lower than the porcelain. And then, and then Tim, just for lay people here, the CMU right is, is in the same family as brick. So we call it out differently as a different material, but it's still within the brick family. So that's the durable kind of grayish color that's under the canopy on the bottom photo. And then in the upper right, we accentuate the, those are the kindergarten classrooms, right? They have to be a little bit deeper. So when we say brick, it's brick, it's ground, it's a ground face CMU. And you, I guess, you know, when you look at it closely, you go, wow, this has texture. This is really nice. It has speckles in it. They're different colors. It's different. So, but when you stand back and you take a look at it, it really, you don't see the detail in it. So it's kind of interesting how it's not just the color or the material, but also the texture and, and how we try to accentuate. So I just want to sort of chime in at a very simplistic level. And Dennis, go team, tell me if you disagree. So the masonry materials are the least expensive and CMU, the ground face block that they're talking about is the the lowest of the masonry. And then there's sort of gradations of the brick and then above that are these, you know, these other materials. So I think what's really clever about the Hastings building is the way they've used the masonry materials predominantly used the more expensive materials as accents and use the most durable of the masonry materials where you needed the most durability. Good summary. We have a bunch of projects to look at. So maybe we'll move to the next. This is the other project that we saw in Sunita William School. This has a different palette. There is some brick that you can see on the back of the school, but predominantly it is curtain wall and a phenolic resin panel, which is installed similar to the a modular system like the porcelain that you saw on Hastings. This has accents of composite metal panel as well. And then some masonry, but I believe in a pretty sure this is a different sort of veneer applied almost like a tile system. In terms of relative cost, the same logic applies as Hastings brick is at the low end. Curtain wall is the most expensive and the phenolic resin panels are at the higher end closer to the curtain wall, but not quite as much. And then with phenolic resin panels, there are opportunities for applying different texture surfaces veneers. So this, which looks like wood is a lot more durable, a lot more color fast and more friendly for maintenance. So Tim, just to put it in perspective, this would be like the metal panel. This would be more like the porcelain. Just trying to help people understand. It would be in the range of metal panel or porcelain. Yeah. And, and so just so everyone understands it's, it's not an inexpensive material, but this was the preference. Also, this was an hour school. This was another architect just. And Margaret, you were going to swing by one school. This material really just started coming back or started being used what about 15 years ago. So, you know, some, some of the concerns with some of, there's some other schools that had started using it, maybe about 10 years ago, I'm trying to think when bankrupt open, but you know, who wants, who wants to be the first to see how, how does it fade, does it hold up? But Margaret, did you have a chance to swing by that building yesterday? I wasn't able to stop because there was some sort of an emergency going on, but I will show you. I can picture of the finish. And group. And Margaret, if you do that, their screen will have to come off. So. Yeah. You know what? I should, this isn't a, I'm just looking at Google, looking at the picture of it from Google. And this isn't a great picture, but Donna, I will get some pictures for you. Yeah. So I worked in a nutshell, I worked on a project. I worked on a project where it was used right at the beginning. I told Donna would go by and take a picture of how it was holding up. So that, that'll have to be a follow up. Rupert, go ahead. Oh, I just had a question about the phenolic resin panel. I'm not so familiar with that. How is that attached? Is that like with screw type fasteners. Into a metal framing. That is attached with a backup system, like a, like a. Brain screen system similar to there's a system of Gert's metal framing that is on the exterior of the sheathing and then the. Panels are passing to that. So with it outside of the exterior sheathing and air barrier, there is an insulation layer and in that insulation layers, the framing for the panels that are then either face fastened or clipped depending on the system to the backup ball. And can I just as a follow up. In terms of maintenance, if a panel gets damaged, do you have experience with the replacement on those phenolic panels? How that works. Depending on the system, they are either face fastened or clipped in, but they are replaceable. Yeah. Rick, did you have something? I just wanted to say, as you started talking about the backup system, you know, for veneer masonry for porcelain for metal panel, the basic exterior wall closure system is consistent. It's the steel studs. Sheathing, air and vapor barrier spray foam on the backside of the sheathing. So with each articulation of different material type, the backup construction doesn't change. It doesn't translate all the way through to the interior. So it's, it's really. Arranging the colors and textures on the surface of the box, if you will. So that's where the differences in costs are. Thank you. And then just in terms of the masonry are all of those grouted into they need. Periodic regrouting. Where there's some exceptions. So the typical brick. The typical brick would not need repointing for a very long time. I mean, this is the lifetime of the building, building material. Thank you. This is another one of our projects. It's an elementary school and whopper. This has. In addition to. Brick and CMU that we've seen in various colors on other projects. This also has a. Single skin. Metal panel. Which is the green color between the windows on the left. And you can also see it in some of the right images. So that. The. The difference between this and some of the other metal panels that you've seen is that it's. A single layer of metal. And the. Insulation is not within the panel itself. There are various versions that have. Insulation in the panel. A polyethylene layer between and none at all. And that's what this is. And this is the most. Cost effective metal panel. It's available in custom colors. And. Which adds cost, but there's a full. Variety and there's also textures here is a modular system of about one foot tall panels with different corrugations in them. Fit together. This project also has exterior sun shades, which can be used to modulate the facade. And then. Some. Break metal, which is simply metal flashing over. Framed cornices. So, Tim, I have a. On, or all the whole team. If. Do these materials have. Different. Ability to absorb heat or repel heat. You know, when I think of. The way they build in the Southwest. To they gain. Solar game by just the wall gets warm. You know, it comes in or is it. They're so far on the outside of the building. It doesn't matter what Rick was saying, but it's just, they're attached on the outside. So it's just a question on a. The brick versus the metal versus the porcelain versus the, whatever. And then my second question is these are. Kind of open. Sunshade awnings. I don't know. I saw some at Amherst college that were. You know, just a single gray piece of metal coming out. That I think was just to cut down the dream. So. Are these costly. And would the, when you get to the day lighting with these kind of. Sunscreens. And the way we've got the building, there are going to be classic. Would that create light patterns inside the classroom? Because these are open sunscreen. So it's two different questions just on what. I'm seeing here. Okay. To answer the questions in order. Yes. The materials do have thermal properties that, you know, some are more absorbent, but they, it is true that they are more absorbent. So as Rick was saying, there's a typical wall. That is behind all of the materials. And then there's a certain kind of insulation. All of these materials are installed outside of that. Weather and insulation barrier. So the masonry materials have more thermal mass and they will. Absorb and retain heat. But that effect. Is mitigated by all of the materials being installed outside of the installation. And the rain screen materials are in fact, vented. And have air movement behind them. On purpose constantly. So the skin really doesn't have any effect on the interior. Yeah. And the largest in terms of the feeling of heat or heat loss or heat gain is simply. A solid wall verse. Where you have glazing. And then. As to the sunshades with intermittent horizontals in them. So. They're designed that way because they are designed for specific. Directions of the sun when the sun is coming right down, there's no real. Necent reason to block it from coming down so it can come outside and then, but if you're coming in at an angle. You know, elevated 45 degrees, 25 degrees that will block. The light. Going into the window. There will be. Times when there are striations of light, but they're designed to mostly. Reduce that, but. The sun moves. And then no exterior shading device blocks all of this on you want all of the time. And yes, they are. They are not inexpensive. They, they come with a cost premium. Tim. And then the question was the difference between these, as opposed to a solid. Piece. Is there. A benefit or a difference? I think that was the other part of the question. The benefit would just be a more complete. Shading system. Depending on. How the solid shade is manufactured. These ones shown here are. Extruded aluminum. Sometimes they come from the window manufacturer. So they are. Part of a pricier package. Sometimes the shades. And I'm not. You know, familiar with the ones that you're referring to at Amherst, but they could be part of the system, which would be expensive or they could be part of the building. And constructed in some other more cost effective way. But in general. The shades do come with the cost premium. But also the solid ones potentially could be part of a system that. Is like a light shelf. That's an exterior light shelf. If there are clear story windows. Above, right? So they serve potentially to bounce a little bit of light. Inside. And then the other thing that we've recently seen on a couple of projects is. Some people have actually put PVs on top of. Shades. Of course, I'm sure that's not. Inefficient. Or, or that it's very efficient, but that's another way. To. Obtain PVs. And energy. And then the other thing that we've recently seen on a couple of projects is some people have actually put PVs on top of. And energy. This is another school in Lexington. Most of the side of this is that durable ground face. CMU material. In different colors. With a pattern. Here you can see that the. Aluminum windows have color. Unlike some of the other projects, we also have the exterior sunshades here. And the other projects are more solid. You can see the shadow that they cast on the window. And then here is a. An applied stone material similar to what we saw at the Sunita William school. A current wall that is in the spaces at the entry of the building with custom color millions. And then a metal panel overhang. Over the entrance to the building. This is an elementary school in Newton. With a different panel. Or a different system of composite aluminum panels and fins that current wall. This is. A square masonry brick material. This is a. Single skin. Corrigated metal panel. And these are composite aluminum panels. They have a composite panel around. Windows. And some natural stone at the base. And then. These exterior columns have. Composite metal panel on them. And you can see as we do here. A lot of our. At the very ground where we can have. Shoveling. Snowblowers. All sorts of kids. We had the. Either precast concrete or. Groundface CMU for durability. The Lexington children's place. It's a departure in terms of the color palette and materials. It's a gray brick. A single skin. Metal panel system. And I believe the window boxes are composite metal panel. Is that right? Right. But this project shows that. You know, in terms of. Color palette. And I think that. Traditional versus. Whimsical for lack of a better word. There are lots of options. That, you know, we can custom tailor to. Whatever it is you want the Fort River school to be. And so we just. Want to get your reaction to as much as we can. I mean, I think just, just to add to that. Rick can comment on the window boxes, but. We're, we know this is a much smaller school. It's a single story, but. So we're not necessarily suggesting. We were not suggest it's a totally different. Size of a building, but we just wanted to just demonstrate that. Brick. You know, when people say brick, they think they just think of red brick. And we're just showing the possibilities and how we can. Take advantage of it and customize it to, to what you think is appropriate for the Fort River school or the new elementary school. Those window boxes are. Tim are structural there are. Stub beams welded to columns that come out and framed. And basically it's, it's a clad box in those. The single skin panel. The single skin panel. Provides color and, and the, and the, and the finish. So that's an example where it serves as a shade and as a, and as a Bezel for the windows, but it's. Entirely structural. That's just clad in color. As if it was a flat wall and the, and again, the panel up above is another treatment. Of the least. So. This supplied horizontally. They have a texture like that. Like a basic one foot. Horizontal texture. Here's another. Composition of brick. Porcelain tile on the exterior. Composite metal panel. Curtain wall with sunshades. So, so also the building material underneath that canopy on the left-hand side are. Pre fabricated porcelain panels, but the. Panel folks actually. Created in the shop and then delivered and they were. It saved time in terms of installing. They were constructed in a shop. Just over the main border. They were metal panels or metal stud panels. Made in the shop. Tiled. In the shop by tile mason's. Horizontally on the flat and then trucked out and installed. Almost as if they were precast concrete. And then within the brick here, you can see multiple colors, multiple patterns to break up, and then you can see the whole thing. And then you can see the whole thing. And then you can see the whole thing. We also have a collection of. Buildings that are not ours just to show. Materials that. Aren't shown so frequently in those projects. And different patterns and masonry and proportions of windows. Starting at the upper left. There's masonry with. Windows with metal panel accents. The project in the middle. And then there's the metal. And then there's the metal panel curtain wall. And brick. Moving to the right. Is a. Surface flat stone product. And we think this is actually natural wood, which would probably not be appropriate, but we share these images. For the aesthetic. And it's also. Potentially replicable with other materials. Similar to this school, which is not a natural wood product. Masonry at the base for durability. At the middle on the center is a. Project with. Almost entirely. The single skin metal panel, which can provide interesting colors and textures and accents. And then where the building meets the ground, there are more durable materials. And then this image is a fiber cement panel, which is installed similar to a rain screen or phenolic resin. There are many systems with either. Fiber cement phenolic resin. And there are even terracotta panels that can be installed as units over a similar backup system. Depending on. The. Look you're going for or the cost you have for in the project. I think there are a lot of options. So I think that's the, oh, you've got a few more. There's one more just to show a few more contemporary materials of. Metal shingles different ways of using brick. More contemporary aesthetics with the. Windows. This is a fiber cement and. Panel infill. This is a. Metal tile. This is a brick. With a stone base. And then this is. Various masonry products and a, and a metal panel. But that is it. So I think. I'm sure your heads are spinning. And it would be. They're beautiful images. What are you proposing to do? Well, we, we did not come with any preconceived ideas. I think what we heard. We were on the tour. Some people. Sounded like they were sort of leaning towards more of a traditional. Brick. Others kind of liked the look of Sonita Williams, which was the composite panel that. We looked a little bit more like natural wood. And, you know, for us, we might have our ideas just because of the setting and, and the surroundings and your neighbors. You don't have competing neighbors here, right? So you don't have to necessarily worry about any other large buildings that you either want to compliment or. You know, I think it's totally different to, so really. It's up to you all to help us. Be informed in, in what you like. We understand cost, right? So, so, and complexity. So cost and complexity. We'll get into, but it would be really helpful to hear. About the area around the building that. Was in your head spin like mine and not one in the. Bottom left. But others may say that that's beautiful, like that's awesome. So it would be, it is subjective at 100% subjective, but it would be really helpful. If you all. Had any kind of ideas and visions of what you thought the building. of material selection, color, window patterns is your vision of the new school, a air quote traditional building, or a not traditional building. The traditional buildings that we show tend to be the ground face CMU which emulates stone at the first floor. So it's it's base stone brick base. The Sinita Williams uses is a non traditional more contemporary look and it and it uses different materials and different ways while still being a kind of a base shaft type of expression of the verticality. So how does amherst visualize their new building who wants to go first. Well, actually, and I want to suggest another prompt about this discussion so, which is a degree to which people want to reflect the, you know, relative traditional approach of the schools that like the Fort River school that's being demolished, which was a red brick building, right, versus, and, and also I think Amherst other schools are a red brick building. So do you, is there a desire to sort of align with that, or to do something different that would be another way of thinking about it. Yeah, and I think just also to think about what you're going to and this will, you know, once we have a little bit of direction or whatever, we'll start looking at it. But it's like the Sinita Williams that you're seeing, it was very long. So when you approach this building, it's enormous, right, you see the, the, you see the longest facade. When we when you approach the new school, you know, that's going to be a very small portion, but that's sort of I hate to say the end of the building, right, sort of like he stings, where the school goes all the way back into so you'll be seeing a small portion as you approach the school, to a certain extent. But when you're sitting in the fields and you're sitting in the play area or the site, you'll be looking up at the building. So that too can can play into what you see. And we've even talked about, you know, the front of the building or the entrance could be different than what you see on the sides of the building. Rupert. OK, just a couple of things. I'll try to be brief on page three, the the Stone veneer. Personally, I love that look, but practically I worry a lot about. I worry about stinging insects and nests. I'm plagued in some of our schools, which we're dealing with that. And lots of cracks and crevices seems like an invitation. And the other personal aesthetic that I'll mention is, I think, on page five, personally, the that two tone brick. On the upper right hand corner, I don't particularly care for it. It's just a personal taste. On the other hand, if you look at the two tone brick down on page nine, top left photo, that feels so much warmer and more interesting to me. But that's just personal taste. I'll be quiet now. We don't want you to be quiet. That's who we're asking for. So thank you. Sorry, I'll give somebody else a turn. All right, Sean. Yeah, I think one thing I've heard before is we just we don't really want it to look like a municipal building, you know, to whatever extent possible. We can. I think brick tends to do that. So I don't know what other options are besides brick. But is it OK if we just send photos to of schools that we know that we sort of like the way they look? I know there's one where I go on vacation a lot. That looks like a really nice elementary school. And I don't know if the materials are possible. But yeah, I've always I've always wished I could go to that elementary school. So yeah, send them along, Sean. That would be great. Thank you. Yeah. Mike. So I'm going to take the Kathy roll today. So maybe I'll help with Kathy. So, you know, I am concerned about cost. I'm not settled on red brick. But I do think, well, personally, I like the front. You know, having been there, the Sunita Williams, it's striking when you when you pull up to that school. You know, we're going to be on a limited budget. And I'm not sure what the right balance of spending on the exterior materials versus the playground, right? Like I tend to go for functional pieces. And so when Rupert talked about concerns, you know, about some of the materials and the impact, right, that that looms large for me on the practical end of things. I'm not saying I wanted to be the blandest building ever. I just, you know, I think cost has to be a feature because there's some things that you've all heard me, you know, feel really strongly about in terms of spaces for special needs kids. I think having been to two schools and seeing how they use their money differently, one much more heavily on exterior playground area that was used almost year round because it was ploughable, right? Like, so that's the balance, right? For me is there's things I like, but then there's things in my hierarchy, which is as Rupert said, it's just mine, right? I would rather increase our expenditures on things that are functionally used by kids and adults versus more aesthetic features. You know, my wife again can tell you lots of details about my thoughts on that and my personal life as well, but it holds consistent. I think the only other thing I wanted to say is one of the feedback pieces we got from MSBA is when you drive up to this school based on the orientation, it's going to be really important that there's a feature towards the front of the building that makes it really clear where the entrance is and the wayfinding. And so as we think about the design, I wonder if we're going to, you know, in an era of limited resources, put more resources into some element, design element, and people are going to be much better than me at saying it, that has aesthetic, aesthetically pleasing and draws the eye that leads people to know exactly where the entrance and exit is because of the nature of coming in off Southeast Street and a building that is designed to go sort of back instead of the current orientation of Fort River, which is more side, I don't have the right language, but side to side, this one's going more deep. So it becomes more important that that visual be clear. So I think for me, I would put the resources we have for some of the materials into something that is visually, you know, takes your visual attention and also directs folks to know where the entrance is because it may not be abundantly clear based on the orientation of the building. So I'll go back to Rupert and I'll let other people jump in, but that's just my two cents. Okay, just building on all the other comments. We've got, we're going to see when we see the layout later. We've got a long side that you're going to see when the bus loop comes in. The south side of the building, as Mike said, we've got a relatively shorter front side and then we've got a south side. So I think it would be helpful in terms of how can we visualize this more if we collect some ideas and I'm willing to send something out as chair, like which color schemes do you like or Sean's idea of taking pictures of some other schools? Because at Amherst College, there's some dark red brick with, it might be the CMU that used those two things. They did it in a geometric pattern that was really interesting and not as busy as what I'm seeing in some of these pictures. So I don't think simple has to be boring, I guess it's the way, and these are big buildings that they did it on. So it might be good for us to have some 3D pictures of what the school might look like with the floor plan and so we can see what the face facing of the school is and then we could click on pictures or things and that's and then I'm going to end there without a clear preference. My preference is where Mike is. I want it to be inexpensive and durable, but be interesting, so do those. My last thought is that the community, larger community, may want to weigh in on some of this teachers, users, parents. So if we got some 3D pictures with you just taking a leap and showing us some examples on the side or front of our building, we've got this terrific device that the town has called Engage Amherst that allows people to weigh in and say, you know, I like number one, we did this with the design of a park, you know, on the color schemes and stuff, but we could easily just get a broader group to say, you know, the red, dark red brick contrasting with CMO, I really like that, or let's be bold and go in another direction. So that's just a thought of how to get more input than just the 13 of us. Thank you, Kathy. Alyssa. Thank you. So I have a couple of questions. First is that I'm wondering, because I too am concerned about the cost, and so I'm wondering what materials were assumed to have been used when the cost estimates were made, and so where that number originates from, so basically like what our base is, and then I'm also wondering if it's possible to have all of our different options like made into a chart where we can see like this is how durable this one is, this is the cost of this material, so I can look at everything at one time. So Tim, if you want to chime in about what the basis of design was, the basis of design is probably very similar to Hastings, right? I just unmute yourself. Sorry, the basis of design includes a masonry brick building, as Donna said, very similar to Hastings with accents of composite metal panel, and turn wall and windows as you see here. So the starting point, if you will, is this distribution of materials and cost, and yes, as we've described, you know, the different materials with their different price points and durabilities, we can put that into a chart. So when we're later evaluating and maybe increasing or decreasing the amount of each material, you can have that as a reference. Thank you, Jonathan. I guess what I would like to suggest is to see what your ideas are. I think it presents a good palette of what the options are out there. I do think that the Maria Hastings is a good starting point, because I think this facade looks like it's within our cost range, but I'm curious to see where you would like to take the exterior aesthetic of the building. It is a three-story building, so breaking it up with different materials as shown in the upper right-hand photo will be important whether we're looking at the building head-on or at the side. I do agree with the MSBA that having a clear delineation of entry is important. I think it was Sean who said this, not wanting it to look, I think his word was municipal. I think my word would be institutional, but balancing that with it looking like a school, I think it should look like a school. I think, for me, the building that has the phenolic resin on it doesn't quite say school to me in some ways. While it's warm, it doesn't feel schoolish, for lack of a more elegant way to put it, but I'm very curious to see where you take it, that the floor plan itself, as you've presented it so far, has a lot of opportunities for breaking down the form from my perspective, so I'm expecting some interesting elevation studies to come out of this process, but I'm curious to see where you're going to take it. Yeah, we didn't want to unleash our ideas until we heard a little bit more for the direction from you all, but thank you. We can have some fun. Tammy? I don't feel like I'm going to reiterate much of what's been said in regards to cost, but one thing I've noticed that people haven't necessarily talked about is even though I don't live in Amherst, I do know having worked here for long enough that a lot of families really do like that small school feel, and I think that some of the residents and staff and students might feel uncomfortable if we have this very tall institutional-looking building, so I'm not exactly sure that's where your expertise comes in. This design of building that is three stories tall, but still sort of coming into it feels small, small school, and then walk in and you can feel the expanseness of it, which would be lovely, and I think one of the schools we toured had that sort of feel to it. The other thing that I feel like I have to say is Amherst is known for our strong stance on anti-racism and social justice, and I really feel like we have an inclusivity, so I really feel like there's got to be that design element that brings in those cultural influences, so that's just something that. And that was it, Tammy? Okay, Paul? Yeah, I think people are making really excellent points. I am really interested in knowing what your recommendation is. You build schools, we don't. You're looking for our design aesthetic and I appreciate that. My goal is that this look like an elementary school, and I think that we want it to read as an elementary school, so it's welcoming to young children and to a verse, like Tammy said, a diverse group of children that does not have to reinforce the sort of normal sort of municipal feel that people are identifying as well. I think we can learn from our institutional partners at Amherst College and UMass and stuff, but I don't think that really that can help us with look at what materials look like, but that's not the field that we're looking for. And I think that if you, I guess I'm sort of looking at how we make decisions on this, and if you come back with here are three options, you know, I think with Alicia said like price, maintenance, you know, and design aesthetic and just limit our choices, and next time I think that's probably your plan. I think that would be very helpful for us. I think opening, you know, we should welcome people, but I think, you know, it's just gonna be hard to to get the settle on a design aesthetic, I think because you've got here, you've got nine different people, it could be 900 different people. At some point, a decision has to be made, and that's gonna be our, it's gonna be our job to do that, make that decision. So I like to have a variety, but what's important to me is the price and maintenance. Thank you, Rupert. All righty, I'll jump in again. I just wanted to share with the committee at large. I believe we had a discussion in the net zero about the intermittent horizontal sun shades. And my recollection is that the feeling of our design engineers was that that's more suitable for Southwest climate than it is for around here. So I'm not sure that that's something that we want to spend a lot of time considering. And then one other comment, if you look on say page nine in the top left photo, you can see there's a considerable overhang between the first floor ceiling and the second floor rooms. And I just, I worry about that as a weak spot for pipes freezing in the winter, because there's a cold floor underneath what could be a heating system. So just to sort of keep in mind that that increases some level of foamability and risk when we do that kind of stuff. I understand there's lots of good reasons to do it. I just wanted to put in a word of caution. Thanks. Right. And just briefly, one thing I wanted to say earlier, and I forgot is, well, I don't love the gray brick on slide seven of the Lexington Children's Place. I think, you know, I think that's a good example in my opinion of like a little bit of whimsy, which is an elementary school. And I think if there are those opportunities that are cost-conscious opportunities to add some color, I think it really connects to what Tammy said as well. So it doesn't look as institutional and it is connecting more with our student and family population. So, you know, you're all the experts at this, I'm not. But I think, you know, there can be, I was impressed, just there's, I don't like some aspects of, you know, what it looks like in terms of particularly the gray part, you know, those little bits of color that throughout, and it just, it makes it very clear that this is designed for young children. And so I think even if the bulk of the building, you know, we're going to make some design choices that have some financial elements, I think maintaining that, that kind of where are there elements to add that throughout the building would be really important. I think, Mike, you know, what's interesting is this LCP, which is their districtwide preschool program is, it's the same as what we were just showing you for the Heastings School, which when we were designing that, there was a real desire to make it look like a traditional New England school. So you can see this is the same community with two totally different design approaches. This LCP is nestled in an area where there's historic red brick buildings all around it. And so they said, well, how can you compete with those? So it really made sense to, you know, take a totally different direction. So it different, even it's the same community, look at the two totally contrasting facilities. And so that is why, sure, we could come up with our ideas or concepts, but you really have a important role in at least giving us a little bit of direction, because as you can see, this is the same community we could have gone from Hastings ago, you want a red brick. So we're going to give red brick here, but instead, the conversation at the initial phases was really helpful to understand the direction. Kathy? Yeah, I just want to I'll retract when I said of the broad group. I'm going to agree with Paul and Jonathan that getting a few variations from you. And then what Alicia said on, you know, some color choices would be very helpful to be thinking this through, because you can see that on this slide, they're using color as accent. So the accent would look different if it was against red brick versus the CMU substance. And then Mike sent in two photos of these incredible murals that are at Fort River now. So if I when I saw them, I was thinking, okay, we've got a big gym wall without windows on the lower level. One of those murals could go up there. So some of the place the color might come from is those that the murals are super exciting. So Vivian said, you know, well, in reaction to them as we could, we could look to find a place for them. But just a few and not lots of variations would help with darker red brick against white brick with some color, you know, but not going all the way to white brick and keeping the cost down. So I think it just would be really helpful for us to be able to look at a few on the building, as we're seeing it, you know, with two long sides and one shorter side, you know, what does the entrance look like. So that I just wanted to go back to Jonathan saying getting because without the building, our building is not going to look like any of these buildings, the actual structure. So the nearest is Maria Hastings because it's three floors. So you can see that you use different color on each of the three for bricks, which was a nice way of making it feel smaller. And I'll stop there. But just a few, few variations would be helpful. Yeah. And just a reminder, we've got Sean for about 10 more minutes. Okay. All right, Jonathan. I just to touch a little bit on what Kathy just said, I glad she brought up the murals. But I also wanted to add to that we do have a certain percentage for public art. And using that public arts judiciously, I think in the public areas of the building, whether that's just outside or just inside or a combination, I think that that's a way to both touch on kind of making it welcoming to the community, welcoming and welcome to our diverse community. And, you know, would likely play well with color and maybe some, you know, the amounts of glazing to kind of accentuate the entries and both make the building feel like a like a elementary school and part of the community. Yeah, I think we want to definitely incorporate all this beautiful art and you can the original Mariah Hastings had some beautiful murals, etc. Some of it was on the outside. Most of it was on the inside. But we do want to be careful not to ruin these this art. We don't know what it's made of. So we just want to be careful where we locate it inside might be more appropriate just to preserve the art instead of being on the outside or maybe there's an area by the playground that might be covered so that the art doesn't get ruined. But Mike, when we're out there next, we'll absolutely take a look at it and see what's the best approach to incorporating it without destroying it over time. Right. So I think I know we have a little bit more to talk about this is really helpful. We appreciate the liberty and we'll do so and being aware of the cost. And that's why, you know, we did do our basis of design the way we did because the interior is as important as the exterior and making sure that we can provide as durable, beautiful insight as we do outside. So we'll take this liberty to start thinking about it and coming back once. We'll also show you some patterns I think now on the windows, right Tim? Yes, we have that and the plans to look at. So a large element of the facade and the overall look of the building since you know classrooms make up the bulk of the building are going to be the repeating elements of each classroom. So there are traditional ways with evenly spaced punched openings and there are more contemporary some of which you saw on the exterior views. And so we just wanted to have a brief conversation if there's any pattern in classrooms that affect how the students and teachers use classrooms. We know that light higher on the wall brings light deeper and is therefore desirable to meet your day lighting goals. If there are aspects of the education now it's delivered that they actually use the windows and they need it spread out or they need it all in one place. We don't know that that exists but it's come up in other schools where kids would go to the windows and trace things or display things on the window that need light. But most importantly it has a very significant effect on how the building looks on the outside and how the building performs because if we're trying to achieve that 24% window to wall ratio there's a finite amount of glass that we can use in each classroom. And so what we're showing here is different windows in different configurations in different classrooms that speak to each of those goals. So here is a series of maybe more traditional evenly spaced punched openings. The one in the upper left has glass high and it comes all the way down to two feet that might be a little bit low because then you can no longer put any shelving in front of it but you might want that interaction in the classroom or partially at one area we could have the glass low in another area we could have glass high. And these are just things that we want to have in the back of your mind and particularly if there's anything that the educators have a strong preference on as we're designing the building on the inside and the out. I think Mike has his hand up. Yeah I mean I think I have a soft preference I would say it is for windows that students can see the outside landscape from. It's a beautiful site and so some of these you know and I can't speak to the daylighting in which ones work better but just some of the ones you showed particularly on the slide before look like if I'm a student like yeah the one on the bottom left for instance and I get that there may be other considerations but you know I think there's natural daylight but there's also just the ability for students to see that they're connected to the outside world and I think the upper right for instance you know and it may be shaded because of you know the orientation it's facing right there's lots of elements that I'm not privy to but I like when people can see the outside world I like when particularly our students from their vantage point can see the outside world we're designing it the building primarily for them and so you know I like aspects where they get to see you know sort of a panoramic as much as a panoramic view as they can instead of kind of little slices of the outside world because I just think it has a positive impact on on how people view their indoor space so that's my two cents but I'll defer to whatever Tammy says because she spends more time at Fort River than I do by a lot. Great thank you Mike. I guess what I would say is in my own classroom trying to utilize as much natural light as possible and recreating from using the overhead including bringing in my own lighting which I probably shouldn't say because I found that students just feel a lot more comfortable in that regard however what I noticed in visiting the schools is that even though even though some of the classrooms have a big expanse of windows they ended up having to use the shade so even though they might have these beautiful landscapes outside students weren't actually able to see them because of the way the natural light was pouring in whether it was causing an increase in heat or just too much glare I don't know so I think that also has to be a consideration is how to design the window to wall ratio great sixth grade map here but to allow for as much natural light where teachers and staff don't feel like they have to close the shades. Yeah we agree Tammy and you know once the shades are down they're down right like it just it's just not a priority so most of the classrooms are going to be north or south facing so the north will have light that won't have as much glare and then we're going to have to treat the south side to make sure that we don't get the glare coming in but that we do allow for the natural light so there is going to be that balance and then trying to achieve daylighting and I think that will well I'll say that because Tim we'll talk about the daylighting in a second. Those are the images that we had for classroom windows we can get back to the daylighting a minute but we do want to quickly go through the plans just as a refresher we're just going to quickly throw on the screen where we were this was PSR iterations that we've seen in the past couple of meetings that have moved items around a little bit and then we had some very productive meetings with the special education staff and Rupert and Ben about how the building is going to function from a service point of view that have pushed the plans around a bit more and so we're going to zoom in a little bit and talk about some of the changes that we've made. We've condensed the footprint a little bit. Fertin Center is administration and the entrance which is eroded to the north so that when students are dropped off at the bus loop as you'll see on the site plan in a minute they can see the entrance clearly and then there is another entrance for students that are coming from the southern bus loop. As you approach the building from the west you will be able to see the volume of the gym and the lower volume of the administration suite that'll help break down that we can talk about when we get into exterior views and the site plan and then the main space as you enter has all of the common areas adjacent to each other and off of one wing space which is you know going to be the study of or the focus of a lot of the study how we can actually shape this space and make it a beautiful cafeteria opens to the gym and then there's into the academic areas on the first floor. Through discussions with the special educators we have relocated the ILC in the aim so that there are two stacks that service this whole school in a more efficient way. I should mention that there's a security point that can close off the academic wing from the main space and then previous iterations had an exit here which was next to the service area speaking to Rupert and Ben. There are somewhat frequent deliveries so we'd like to separate that and bring it closer to the building and also is going to make the drop-off work a little bit better as mostly when we get to the site plan. Jonathan you have a question. It's a quick one and maybe you'll maybe they'll be clear when you go to the site plan but you've got two entries for students shown but they don't feel very equal to me. Is that one next to the gymnasium? It is a day-to-day entry point just as the one which would be to the west is or is that just kind of like a recess entry exit? The main entrance is to the west and we can talk about it when we get to the site plan. This space the you know this sort of looks like a corridor you're right now and I think that gets massaged a little bit so it's probably a little bit bigger. The other point of having an entrance here is the gymnasium will probably be the most used public space and if there's direct access to it in a vestibule there getting in and out of that space allows for the most opportunity to get people in and out without going anywhere else in the building where there's opportunity for them to be places that they shouldn't be. Not that it wouldn't be secure and locked but in and out as quick as possible is a good thing if you're renting the space. And then and then just to add to that Jonathan the nurse we're thinking would also have kind of a direct access and when you see the site plan you know we're starting to identify can we have some parking there whether it's for the school vans that the students require a little more time or parking for a short period of time they come and grab their student out of the nurse without having to go all the way around but the other thing too is and we'll have to we haven't had all of the conversations with the district or the or the staff but we also see the cafeteria as maybe being a point of entry so kids could gather on the play area that is directly outside the calf and then they would come in so um yes we we would definitely want to treat the entrance it's not really an entrance it's an entrance in the morning for the students when they arrive by bus to be something that's very warm and welcoming and that would be the way that they would exit so that we can separate the students those that are going to the cars could maybe conjugate in the cafeteria or something and then they could go that way and the kids are catching the buses could hang out in the gym and then they would leave that way so but yes we would have to make that a very warm welcoming but we don't want that to be the prompt we want the main entrance by the green to be the like main entrance and then the only other thing I wanted to respond to when we were working with the special needs folks were also trying to accommodate MSBAs or desi's comments about making a couple of the spaces more aligned with the general classroom spaces so just wanting to throw that out there too that we're doing this in addition to address MSBA or desi's comments so um well yes thank you um in a previous committee I was on one of the one of the uh requests was to have a and I don't see anything here a PGO room of some sort that did not give full access to the building to parents and guardians who had projects to work on do you ever incorporate something like that into a building footprint we've we've done uh PTO or we've done PTO spaces they're non-reimbursable I see okay um some communities felt we're we're just doing it and then others what we've done is worked with the um school to kind of give them their own corner the the other consideration too which is not reimbursable by MSBA would be your after-school programs and we understand that need too so again you know can we give a storage closet or something to them where they can store their stuff or we have we have to work all that out too but um just being fully transparent with MSBA is really important and they would not reimburse that space great thank you um moving up through the building and then we'll get to the site on the second floor the media center is off the stair from the main lobby adjacent to that there is a suite with the art and stem room OTPT and student support as you get toward the main academic part of the second floor with the first and second grade this stair could be open to the gym above at the second floor and it's an opportunity to bring light into the lobby in the heart of the building and we'll look at all sorts of ways to change the manipulation of the stair it's currently showed you know not much larger than a negress there but there are all sorts of opportunities for changing theometry and doesn't necessarily have to stack completely at the first and second floor or even the third floor and then we can introduce spaces in the middle to bring light down into the core of the building and I think just if you if you just stay on that real quickly you know we're we're looking at ways that meet the program requirements but also will allow for maximum use of space so for example and we haven't even had this conversation with the art folks yet but um we have the art and the stem right to create this great steam area that would allow us to use their pretty pretty wide corridor for activity project-based learning etc but you can see there's purple and light blue in between the two spaces and again just trying to maximize and shared resources that we've said okay well we can combine the stem storage and the art storage and one large space so that the resources can be shared as as well as just instead of having two smaller spaces one larger one that would allow for maximum storage use. Kathy? Yeah I have a question on this and then when you get to the third floor I want to compare the third floor in this to the other third floor that you show us so when I'm over at the media center and looking west is the first floor extending out so is the media center set back it's just a just purely what am I look I think the answer is yes so yeah so this from the first floor to the second floor and then another step back third is that correct? That is correct so this line represents the roof as it exists of the first floor. The academic part is pretty compact going north but the way the program is laid out with a priority to have the gym and cafeteria and the public spaces on the first floor there is an inherent imbalance so that the first floor is larger. That is an opportunity to adjust the massing and the volume of the building as you approach to create some visual interest and to make the building feel a little bit smaller. We have talked a lot about how the building should be compact as possible with as little as an announce but this is going to strike a balance of the functional putting everything where it wants to be it will serve the massing but yes to answer your question in the simplest form this is the extent of the library now looking west and there will be roof below it the aspect ratio the shape of the media center and the cafeteria and the music room below it will be the focus of much study to make sure that that line is where it wants to be so that the building presents the appropriate face and then you know another consideration is if you're looking at a decent amount of roof what's on the roof outside of those windows if it's a white roof there could be glare which you know affects day lighting and dirt and dirt yeah so and then also we're going to put as much PV as we can on the roof that area outside of the media center is probably not a candidate because it will be in shade sometimes but it's very possible that the media center line may move further to the west and this line further to the east so that if the administration is further out and that's further back I'm talking to all sorts of future but the answer is yes this is the roof beyond the okay and so just staying with this partly this is we the music room got moved from the second floor down to the first floor so that's part of what this extra so the this literacy specialist that that x there is the gym which is taller than everything else so the literacy specialist has a potential window on the south side and on the west side correct I mean or just and then media center has well definitely two sided windows are potential okay and can you just then the well I should let you get to the third floor but just trying to the third floor that's in this set versus the third floor that was in the earlier set sure well let's go to the third floor here here is the academic room and then it's obviously much smaller because there is less program we do have to get to the stair here the code occupancy for the third floor is if you count all of the people who could possibly be in all the rooms 500 people so therefore you need three stairs we will look at ways of maybe creating another stair or as even one of the earlier options show that might condense this but this is an opportunity to give light to all of the offices and create sort of an unprogrammed node that is full of light that are that we introduce into a lot of our projects and they may become some of the most successful and most used spaces in the school so could you go to the other the third floor I think two slides up because what I'm looking at is where the teachers okay and you have to go way over to the just the third floor if it's possible because this this other third floor it has the same amount of stairs but it puts the teacher the staff room and the teacher's dining room south facing so they'd be looking out at the fields so just thinking of and and then it's square or then in the new version which is like a little arrow coming out so I just didn't know whether there's a reason for that and then with the teachers looking out toward where the kids are playing versus looking out toward where the the loop is um and and those two rooms and then the other one they're in this pointed out thing I don't know how else to do it it's like a pencil understood that that's so the direction that the teacher work room faces is um if there's a stated preference that it wants to face nor so it can overlook the fields and playground that's that is something that we can accommodate in either shape the difference between this box here and the arrow in the other plan is this building actually has four stairs you can see three on the third floor but the fourth stair here doesn't go to the third floor because you're outside of the footprint um and what this third floor does it uses the same three stairs throughout the entire building okay so I see that so you could move it wouldn't have to be as pointed if people it would not have to be as pointed that teacher's work room could okay I got it thank you and anything on the south here could be on the north and anything on the north could be on the south um but um depending on what the view is depending on the light quality that you want if you'll notice on the second floor we have the art room facing north the media room facing north uh because where kids are going to go in and do projects we would like the quality of the white to be it as as as good as possible as glare free and yeah north has the best day lighting without the glare and the heat and then I think even tim if you go to the site plan just go down one more the views um where we would be locating the south facing um program and including the teachers that's still a beautiful view yeah it's very natural and um you know there's there's you're not looking at a street or a building so the orientation really is is wonderful that everyone is going to have these beautiful views of the natural surroundings Donna I saw that but but the pencil like one the view first looks down on the second floor and then the third you know it's it's because it stepped in I don't have a good visual sense of this other than trying to think of what are you actually looking at so the only thing I saw between the two third floors yeah yeah yeah and I think Kathy um our goal is to you know make this as uh we have to maintain the 105 750 gross square footage and um at at the preferred schematic which is study it's not even schematic design you know I um after speaking with people we're realizing we had to throw in a little bit more area for mechanical now that we know it's geothermal we had to our ground source we had to make sure that we had the right number of stairs as tim was saying we're trying to stairs are expensive so we're trying to do that in a cost effective manner and then of course um just accommodating the number you have to count um the number of people we had to make sure we had enough toilets uh multi-stall versus staff versus student versus gender neutral so so um some of the brown has grown a little bit and what we're trying to do is also make the building as compact as possible so you're going to see probably a couple more iterations but we recognize how important the special egg components are especially because you have the three district wide programs here that we wanted to make sure they were as inclusive as possible and bringing the music down kind of started to juggle all of this but your points are well taken did anyone before we jump to the site plan Mike I don't know if you wanted to make any comments or if anyone else had any other comments as to the configuration of the spaces or I mean I think just reiterating that I appreciate you know getting the fact that you've been so proactive gathering feedback from staff who actually use the buildings I know that'll continue we get a you know now that school started we I know you're interested in we tried to get everybody on you know our large group before the scooter started we got some particularly this you know focus on intense special needs but then getting some general classroom teacher feedback in the classrooms but you know I think for me it really is my personal viewpoint is just taking shape to be compact as I think Tim started with but also really promoting the type of collaboration that we value in our district and very consistent with our instructional model so I'm really pleased you know where we were two months ago to where we are today I think there's been a lot of positive progress and compliments you all for really getting to know our teachers our you know our admission teacher you know our school leaders but also folks working in the schools you know it's the best way to integrate some of the specialized programs what's the best way to include some project area spaces that will promote especially the common entes there some breaking down some of the walls that you know potentially because the common entes is a you know unique program but that the first grade team is a unified first grade team that's going to do a lot of things together so to me it's really starting to feel very much like an Amherst it's not like the you know I've started it was the boxes were in places because we needed them somewhere and it feels much more narrowly tailored to our needs here in Amherst so I'm just very very pleased with the progress and thank you great Jonathan it kind of just touches a little bit on what Kathy was saying I you know I'm sure the next time we see it you'll massage the the that that kind of western approach to the building a little bit but that that third floor feels a little little awkward to me from a form perspective because I'm kind of imagining it in my head and what that would look in 3D there's a lot of kind of roof to wall kind of areas on both that second and third floor so I would be curious to see how you massage that a bit to bring it together and and we will be starting to show you know the three-dimensional models and how that impacts I think I'm very curious to see a massing study at this point I've got one in my head but it might be wrong but you know again we're going to continue to massage this a little bit but you know the other thing too and our mind is again this is a pretty large building so when you start doing the tiered effect it really does break the mass down here right it breaks down the mass and when you approach it it's not looking like this big building but we also want to be cognizant of area for pv's and how does that impact the the roofs and everything else and then that that might impact the glare whatever that would have on coming into the spaces above that roof so we have to we really our focus was to make sure we understood programmatically the right adjacencies and the function of it and making sure we met code with a number of stairs and toilets and and we think we're there and so now we have two months to that's it two months to kind of bring bring forward to the buildings sorry Tim so we go to the site the site has developed somewhat and we'll develop more I just want to point out the things that have changed as they relate to the building and as they relate to the site itself as we talked about the second entrance to the lobby moved from east of the service area to closer to the admin and a direct shot closer to the heart of the building you know that that came out of one for the best place to enter the building and two we spoke to Rupert and Ben about the trash and service needs which are significant and have to be accommodated within the context of the bus looping people coming by and arriving for school every day so this option takes the southern drop-off loop and moves it to the west into this space that is is probably not going to be utilized as much as some of the areas and is and we want to get as much queuing as possible and it also zones the southern portion of the site south of the building and a little bit better we did have the drop-off coming all the way almost to the end of the building this way when there are outdoor learning opportunities you're not looking beyond them to a drop-off and a lot of the the natural point of where you want to be is closer to the door rather than you know if the door was back here people would stop or buses would stop this entrance is just a better location there are other considerations that we have to bring into in terms of shielding the dumpsters and service entrants both for aesthetics and safety but that is the general direction that the site is moving and then just to add taking into what we had heard earlier that what you see in blue just for clarification those those are not going to be rivers or waterways that those will be kind of stormwater retention basins that if you went out there you know the water will move when it rains but otherwise you'll see we had some photos I don't know if we still have them in here but shallow areas that will have kind of like rocks or or plantings that are going to be natural so we're just showing that there will be depressions around the site to manage the stormwater but we also had heard that it was preferred that we kept the play areas kind of all together with an access to outdoor learning learning but separate from the play so that kids are not distracted when they're hearing and seeing their friends play and they they have a science class so we're trying to be mindful of that as well and then clear connection from the play to the cafeteria for recess after for collection drop-off and dismissal a clear entrance that is visible as you approach on the drive and also obvious from the parent drop-off loop and then outdoor learning spaces distributed throughout the site yeah a couple questions um and then also the comment um the where where might the basketball court be and when it says asphalt all that brown is some of that not asphalt but another surface and then then finally I know I think you're going to try to set up a meeting with the recreation department staff um so just thinking of the interaction with this as community space as well as school space so when I asked about where the basketball court might be it would be you know where might it be um so it's not a I don't I can imagine where it might be or can imagine where you might put it but when we when we were at Sonita Williams some of those play surfaces were like this rubberized stuff um they weren't asphalt um they were soft to your feet and then we saw that probably too expensive for us great green fake green grass stuff that was like artificial turf so I'm just I know this is just a beginning but just trying to think of where things might be um as you then meet with recreation which will say where where to soccer fields where baseball but not necessarily the school but the surrounding area so those as as shown here and and included in the basis of design these areas identified as play are the soft rubber surfacing where the play structures would be the hardscape play is where basketball courts whether those are full basketball courts or half courts as maybe you've seen at some other you know something that we'll talk to it and finally program but they would be in this zone and then the athletic fields are are beyond and that that is a discussion that we have to have about the shape and size of these athletic fields because you know this is drawn as an ultimate frisbee field but that may not be the most useful shape or size for parks and rec because ultimate is often not played on a specific field and they might need the flexibility to do something else so that is the discussion that we have to have to fully develop the site because soccer teams use it use these fields now so yeah um so my other question is these outdoor learning spaces um you know if outdoor learning includes gardens um where you're planting things or outdoor learning includes you're just going to pull some mats and you're going to sit around in a circle the surface on that can it be if it's a school can it be something other than rubber or asphalt can it be grass can it be you know nice fine wood chips i mean we saw some spaces at sinua williams well they had a space in the forest which was just you could sit on some rocks and be in a circle so you know how naturalistic can those be um they can be naturalistic well all of those materials are on the table for outdoor learning spaces we will need to get an accessible route there but an accessible route can happen on a stone dust path um so um all of those materials are on the option we you know limit the asphalt or heartscape to places where they have to be shoveled cleared in the winter um obviously there are games of sportswear and basketball that want to take place on those but um i wouldn't say that asphalt is the default exterior material it's just there for when it serves a very real purpose for um you know making sure that the games can be played and it's available during all seasons when kids want to go out in the winter and it's not super nice out and then just to add um it is a durable material to allow for emergency vehicles to access around the building which will be really important as well can i step in here for a second um i have to leave i think you still have a quorum kathy okay let's see because elisha had to leave too but elison did join us so i just have to i think i count six other people here if there's six other people okay so you're turning so i'm you're making me host i am do that yes the most this is what you're telling me yeah okay thank you sorry sorry to interrupt okay so mike has his hand up i ask a clarifying question if you see six left would that be a quorum or would that be one fewer than a quorum thanks mike yeah i mean i have a comment but before i get it i think that was more important than my comment yeah let's see one two three i only see five and even if it's six i thought seven was what we needed for quorum yeah we're gonna need seven okay so then um i will not make my comment i'll figure out a different way to communicate it because if we're gonna end the meeting then we need to end the meeting well so but then i we won't have had um public comments so okay so i can hang out i can hold people off for a couple minutes so let's complete our work so is that okay and then we can take up where we left off and send in comments um and i know you had the day lighting slides we potentially have a presentation but anyway we can read jigger next week next not next week september 16th um we're open for public comments and era okay chris riddle you have joined us and i'm seeing one two three four people had their hands up so i'm going to ask everyone to try to stay to the three minutes or less because we're at risk of losing a quorum so chris you're here if you want to unmute can you hear me yes okay tell me if rudy is one of the persons with a raised hand yes yes okay i won't say what he's going to say um i i'm commenting about the what i would what i would say as i mean i i was really taken by the lexington children's place it's colorful in its spirit and its child and its capriciousness um uh so i and also i would like to call people's attention to the king open school in cambridge massive new and that zero school um uh there aren't um recesses and projections in neither of these two things not many and i i think that we i'm i'm looking at the floor plans and seeing i counted the number of corners in the south in the south elevation and there are 18 every time you do a corner there's a temper temptation to change materials there imagine that would be the we would go from brick to masonry for instance at one of those corners there each time you do that that's expensive and uh and i and i'm i i don't feel that this building is big enough that it does it needs too many ins and outs and jigs and jogs i would like to call attention to those two other projects which are mostly uh straight lines and at king open school they there are uh curves that uh that soften the profile of the building but no ins and outs and jigs and jogs i i would like to call people's attention to the those ins and outs and jigs and jogs and let's try to avoid that and let's try to avoid changing materials just in order to change materials um that is all i have to say thank you thank you chris raria you're you're with us thank you we kind of get booted out so uh it's hard to know when we're back in okay um so i would like to i love the idea of having a grid to understand all the different important considerations for the exterior materials cost or ability maintenance that kind of thing if you could also add to that climate impact uh in terms of i know that this is basically a facade and it may not have a big impact on uh insulating or thermal capabilities but if it does that would be nice to know as well as carbon footprint um of the different materials the other thing is uh i i do i am very happy to hear that you're going to be uh reaching out about the community spaces and the field use and all the kinds of other outdoor uses and i would encourage uh encourage that uh not only from amherst rec but there i know that there is a bunch of other organizations besides amherst rec that that uses these fields so that's i'll i'll try to keep it brief and thank you i just i want to thank this committee once again for always recording um and having this available so that people can watch it really truly appreciate that thank you thank you maria i think we brought in rudy and then bruce hi um thank you rudy from rudy parkins from amherst mass um kathy i counted nine from committee members on originally and you're losing two right so don't you still have seven if we lose paul we alicia's gone alicia's gone and paul's gone and you had paul and shon shon's gone okay so you've dropped six yeah i think we're this time we're counting right okay all right thanks um i think uh you know i like some of the points that mike and paul and others made about color that this is an elementary school it should be a little livelier um this is also our first net zero building so just the way the prius when it came out had a distinctive shape to communicate not just a new car but that a different approach to a car was being done i think this building needs to be a little distinctive and not maybe totally traditional with a nod to tradition but uh a little bit novel and using color and other things i think the river side of the building can be your cheapest most uh plain um building facade material because very few people will see that end so put more of the expenditures onto the more visible ends particularly the west end um the um i just hope that somebody is looking at oh that jim wall projecting up presents the possibility of some kind of mural or pattern like a sun pattern or some kind of thing that also helps emphasize the end of the building that is the predominant and the entrance in so that could be like a billboard effect above maybe a parallel thing of sculpture or something at the end they thought you might want to think about that um the sun motif might go with pv and the net zero um i hope somebody on the committee or a finance committee is looking at the new inflation reduction act not just for the solar credits that i mentioned in my email to y'all but i believe the geothermal also is going to get federal credits and may be subject to direct pay requirements my understanding is that some of these have uh domestic content requirements so it's going to impact our specifications on some of the materials and how things are done federal prevailing wage i believe is required and so forth so i hope we don't lock our preempt things by how we spec and do the building and i hope i don't know whose job that is to go through the ira and look at how we can get all as many federal subsidies as possible out of the new legislation but i hope we're looking at that um and i agree with chris that we should reduce the zigzagging looks to me like the eastern edge of the building could be squared off by lining up the last two classrooms with the others in that line that'll change that'll actually pull the edge of the building away from the the river area which might be beneficial and then you could reconfigure some of the storage and other components in that hallway which would become wider if you line up the those classrooms so i i think that's it if you get a chance architects or others to look at the iowa rest area called it has iowa written all over it it is it really struck me in my travels this summer it used a giant sculpture at the entrance and stained black concrete to look like ink spilling out towards the countryside it was just black and white and yet it was tremendously dramatic to my my eye and maybe we can learn something from that but um anyway thanks thank you rudy and bruce can you hear me yes uh comment on the exterior treatment uh generally speaking the the building's chosen looked very busy and and i appreciate that when you're trying to show the committee a range of materials you probably would choose buildings that had a variety of choices within them but my sense is that um so far as a some guiding points for exterior treatment i urge the committee to favor the selection or the choice of a clearly dominant single material that the building should express that a clearly dominant single material and and because it's very likely to be brick i guess because of the economics associated with it in more ways my second thought would be then that the using the polychromatic potential of brick to make the building less intimidating more welcoming more school like would be a second good strategy i i think the durable base that has been discussed and and the reasons for it there is a third driver and and also it's a it's a purely classical thing to tie the building to the ground make it looks like it belongs there so and then the fourth guide that would seem to me to be a good strong driver would be the the whimsical color i i'm like others favoring that there should be some strong primary whimsical coloring in the building that that drives it in the direction of making it feel like an elementary school so a single dominant material and and not so much of the accents i think the maria hastings of all of the buildings that were shown seemed to be the one that was most closely heading in that direction but it it in my view was still a little busier than i think would be desirable thank you and and congratulations as michael was saying i he thinks this project is moving in a very good direction and from a wholly different point of view of the public citizen observing the process i would agree you muted kathy and i'm talking so that's good um i don't see any other hands up on the committee so i think we're going to adjourn so we don't lose a quorum and we will send out the tentative agenda it sounds like the next meeting will need to be a full two hours um so um i'm going to check with people i know allison needed to join late today because of of school starting and alicia so i'm just i i think we're getting to the point where um you're going to want input and decisions from us or at least having us all here because we can't just look at these slides and then my last thought is of the people where we just saw these slides i'm assuming we can just send you comments on slide number x y or z um and i'm happy to collect them if if committee members just want to send them to me and i'll i'll pull them together so i think with that said we are adjourned