 Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. I am Chris Short, technical marketing manager at Red Hat. This is OpenShift TV. You are joining us for a very special developer experience office hours. I will go around the horn and do a quick round of introductions and I'd like to just quickly discuss what we're talking about today. Serena, please introduce yourself for the team. Hey there, my name is Serena Nichols. I am a product manager in the developer tool area and I'm specializing on OpenShift developer experience and that's what we're here to talk about today. Sweet, Brian, what's that mean? Well, yeah, yeah, good to be here during this KubeCon week for folks who are looking for a reoccurring weekly engagement. We're here every week. We'd love to hear your questions. I'm a developer advocate in the OpenShift team and yeah, we've got exciting content for you, so. Yeah, so just kind of preface the show for everybody, right? Like this is something that Ryan and I get to do on a regular basis, right? Like behind the scenes, you know, with the internals of Red Hat, we get to work with Serena of the future quite frequently and provide our feedback based off y'all's feedback that we get to her about the interface and how things should work and look and function and everything else. And, you know, her team does a great job of working with us to make things more intuitive and more special. So today, we wanted to bring you that kind of experience publicly, so you're actually going to get some feedback. Yeah, yeah, you're going to give some feedback into products, things that are going to be baked into the future here. So we want you to interact with us as much as possible today. We're super happy as Kubernetes, you know, KubeCon and, you know, I got my Kubernetes pronunciation shirt on. You can go grab that at the Cool Stuff store from Red Hat. And I'm just super excited to bring this experience to y'all today because this is literally one of the most fun things that I do. And it's so fun, in fact, that my daughter is considering pursuing a career in this. So, right, like, I am uniquely interested in getting everyone's feedback on what they think the product should look like today. So super excited everyone's here with us. Also, another real quick shout out. I heard that we currently have an opening in the product management team working on OpenShift Developer Tools. If you know someone who might be a good fit for that, definitely tell them to dial us up and get in contact. Yeah, Ryan Jay on Twitter. Serena Marie. Serena Marie 125. There you go, Serena Marie 125 on Twitter and Nat Chris Short on Twitter. I almost had you all memorized. It was the number for me, officer. Yeah, I got it. Yeah. I also wanted to just say, too, like, so this is going to be a new thing for us today, where we haven't had it as interactive. We're going to try to dial it up a notch here today, right, where we're going to try to use Kahoot to do some polling and see if we can see some answers live. Don't quite know if it will work out well, so bear with us if it doesn't. And as Chris says, he always kind of talks to me about Serena from the future, but this really isn't talking about necessarily what we're working on for the next release. It's more around like, what are your pain points? Where do you want us to go in the future? So by, you know, this is definitely a different level of conversation that we've had in the past where we might have say, oh, here's some things we're working on for 4.6 or even what we're thinking of for 4.7. This is more holistic. Hey, where do you want us to go and give us that feedback so we can keep it in our wheelhouse when we start writing out the requirements and brainstorming? Yeah, this is, I mean, this feedback will be vital, right? Like any one that gives us any piece of information during this stream is probably going to be giving us some valuable insight. So where do you want to start Serena? I know you wanted to start on the ad page. Like, what about this page? Yeah, so I think there's a couple of places I want to start. I'll go real high level first and then maybe we can start some conversations and then go to Kahoot. So today what you've seen, again, this is again from future. This is kind of where we are working in the 4.6 on a 4.6 daily cluster. So not necessarily everything will be in 4.6, but this is where we're at. Where you'll see a lot more tiles today, right? So we have a lot of different catalog experiences, but right now what they're doing is they're all going to the same developer catalog and they're kind of filtering things differently. So you can go to the ad page. And if you're thinking about adding something to your application or your project, you might want to go into a catalog. And but what we do today is we're always defaulting to the operator back services. So if you wanted to change that, you can change these things differently. But one of the things that we realized is that if we want to provide filters that are specific to a type or even additional functionality that's specific to a type, it's very difficult to do that. So I'll give you an example. So for operator back services, we have introduced this group by feature. But if you do that, it's group by operator, which is nice if you're using operators. But you know what? If you're just looking at templates, it does nothing for me, right? So one of the things we're trying to think about is as we continue to add more catalog experiences. So in the future, we might have an event source catalog or a tecton task catalog so that you can add things into your project or your application. What should that experience be like? Like, should you be able to, when you come into the developer catalog, kind of see everything and as you start drilling in, maybe have a more prescriptive experience. So I'll do another quick thing. In the future, if we said operator backed and I was in my more prescriptive experience, maybe at that point I could also filter by capability level or say, hey, I only want to see things that are offered by Red Hat or I only want to see things that my company has added as operators into this catalog. And right now we don't have that capability. So I think we're trying to find out some of those requirements there as well as in the future. Right now we don't have the ability to allow a cluster admin to change these categories and how important is that? So that's the longer story of where we want to go today but I just tried to put a bunch of ideas in people's minds. So I would like to remind everybody that we're speaking and there's a slight delay by the time you see it on Twitch or YouTube or Facebook. So if you say yes to something, we're not gonna know what you're saying yes to. So please provide a little clarity around, what you're looking for, what you want, that kind of thing. So Rockham, that's why I asked you to elaborate there. So keep that delay in mind as you're responding to questions from us and I'll try and de-conflict whatever information may fall out if any does. So yeah. I think I can add a couple of... So Rockham's... Can I add a couple? Oh, go ahead. Oh, go ahead. Well, I was just gonna say what Rockham said. Provide labels to templates and filter it by custom search. Filter it for it, filter for it by custom search. Labels are awesome everywhere. Yeah, right. Yeah, that'd be a cool feature. Yeah. So here's another thing that we have been talking about on the horizon future is what if we had something like a quick add inside of topology? So today, and again, we're gonna have these Kahoot questions going forward to get more info from people. But today what we do is you wanna add something from here, you gotta go back to add, right? And go back into the catalog. So what if we enabled something like if you knew you wanted to have a Mongo database? What if we enabled some kind of search criteria here that allowed me to type in Mongo would spit out what the available Mongo options we had were and kind of make it a little bit more efficient, less context switching. So that's kind of another topic that we have been throwing around and seeing if we think that that might be useful. I was just reminding everybody that you're from the future and that this is 4.6. Yeah, keep saying that please. Yeah. 4.6 daily build, not even out yet, not even GA yet, but you know. Yeah, this is definitely the latest of OpenShift. We have been at this for quite a while when I first started looking at this stuff, and we were demoing this at the very first KubeCon, actually we had OpenShift based on Kubernetes at that point. But the interface that we offered at the time was much more simplistic. But I love how far along this ad screen has come as a layer above Kubernetes where developers or folks who maybe are not Kubernetes experts can really quickly say, hey, I have a Git repo and I'm not sure how to be productive with it, but man, here's a card that says how to get started from Git. And hopefully I can click on that and follow a path through and start being able to rapidly iterate on my code without having to be a Kubernetes expert or maybe an expert on containers or other topics. So yeah, really cool to see how much has been added in here and also great to see the new features as far as filters and other things to help rein it in as it grows. Right. Yeah, I mean, and so you just pointed out a couple of really good points. I mean that the ad page is starting to grow. And at one point is that going to become unmanageable, right? Like is this where we want to do? Do we want to just continue to add tiles or do we want to try to figure out a better end to end experience for some of those things? Yeah. The YAML buttons. How do we know that? Oh, go ahead. Oh, I was going to say that YAML buttons kind of like your basic kube code will create dash F but there's so much more and yeah, sorry to interrupt. Yeah, so how do you do that? Yeah, well, hopefully sessions like this, right? So I think as Chris started originally, he was talking about how we do have a lot of these sessions internal to Red Hat. We're also trying to offer these office hours that help with that. We are also really in tune with trying to connect with customers and have offline meetings, right? So we love to join here, but if you also want to get more engaged, also connect with us offline and we could do sessions with you guys around trying to understand your pain points, how we can have any reviewer collaborate some of the forward-looking stuff that we're working on, the more feedback, the better, as always. Yeah, there's quite a bit of activity in chat. So Solis Law says, if you're in the admin console, I know this isn't necessarily you, but this is a good feedback in general. If you're in the admin console on 4.5 and go to administration CRDs, your CRD, it'd be great if there was an instances tab at the top. Now, if you could say which CRD is to find where it's landing, I guess, is what they're looking for there. So Solis Laws, let me know. It's not a beautiful tele-interface, but you can look at CRs, and I guess he's trying to figure out, could we add something there to filter it? Something there. Oh, it's there, it's there. Okay, never mind. Not, it would be great. It's there. Okay, cool. Never mind. Sorry. You can look at CRs. Okay, and remember too, what I'm showing is the future. Yeah, so this is very much the future. There might be something here that people aren't used to seeing too. So just to. Yeah, so Rockhound points out that like, you go from this add menu and then you can add a route, a template, a pod, well, yeah, well, whatever. I personally would like to see more integration on deeper menus. When I, when I write, when I remind right, I can go to users and add their roll binding directly, but the screen is the same as the one in the usual menu. I'd have expected that the user is pre-selected there, for example. Interesting. So you're talking about on the roll. So just not to discount that. And we can, we can share that information with the admin side, but we are focused. We're definitely, I'm aligned with developer. Right, like Serena from the future on the dev console. Yeah, but we can definitely bring this back to Ali Movrim who's the console, the admin console PM. Yeah, we need to get Ali on the spot. I think those are great. Yeah, we need to bring him into these and put him on the spot. Yeah, okay. Right? Calling out Ali. So. What would anyone say the ratio between, no, this is a completely generic question. This might be more you, Ryan. What would you say the ratio between Spring Boot apps and Wildfly apps is an open shift at the enterprise? Oh man, at the enterprise level, I do. No idea, but. I can go ask the enterprise and see what they say. But yeah, yeah, I don't have their latest data at this point. I think it's probably depends on what's good for your workflow. I know a lot of folks with Spring Boot like the kind of CF push style functionality, we have a lot of that available with Odo nowadays. You could do Odo push into a Spring Boot application running on open shift. You can also use Wildfly as your backend and still get that CF push style functionality to promote war files or here files or whatever Java artifacts you have. So you've, and then there's Corkus as well as a kind of runtime. So a lot of options. I think you wanna figure out what's best from a productivity perspective and then also work with your architects and administrative folks around kind of what you're trying to standardize on as a business and take those factors into consideration. But hopefully open shift Odo have all of them solved for you. It's funny you phrase it like that because someone asked me this morning just kind of like off the cuff, like, hey Chris, how would you manage a large open source project, right? Starting out, where would you manage the project itself? And I was like, well, GitHub has project boards but really it's what works best for you. And that's what's most important here, right? We want you to have the thing that works best for your organization, your business needs. I mean, it's about you finding productivity in a meaningful way based on your business criteria. And so if your business for some reason would be better off with Wildfly, great, we got it covered. We've got hopefully just about all of the options and you may need to do a little bit extra digging to find the optimal trade-off or maybe your administrators have already made a couple choices for you. Either way, we're trying to be flexible and help enable that productivity. Cool, one piece of feedback from Indiana Tux Serena. Not sure if you saw it yet, but that card view that we have on the ad page is great. They would like to see maybe a list for you. And I think that hard page is gonna grow. So that might actually be a very good idea. More real estate, yep, yep. Yeah, exactly. Thanks for that. Thank you so much. Yeah, definitely. That's a great piece of feedback. So yeah, you ready to cahoot up some stuff? We're gonna do some live polling. We've never done this before on the channel. Let's see how it goes, right? We've done this in some of our internal, you know, team meetings and stuff. So we're gonna try and do it on the live stream, why not? I have one more question that I can try to handle. We got one from Rockhound in chat. Yeah, go ahead if you want. Yeah, yeah. So Rockhound was asking, what's the appeal of the ODO command line tool? ODO, well, while folks are getting set up with this cahoot app. So ODO helps you decouple your pushes from your commits so that I can do a push of my code before I make my get commit, having those decoupled. So I'm not forced to make commits just to preview my changes. That's definitely preferable. So I think it'll probably be around for the foreseeable future. There's a lot of value there in previewing your work before you commit to it. So I don't know if we'll see other platforms adopt the ODO tool, but it works really well with OpenShift and we hope to see more development on it over time. So if you have features, feedback, definitely let us know. Yeah. I don't count as a player, do I? Do I count? Well, you know, I think it's all right. I think everybody can join. But we would love to see more people. It looks like we've got 53 people on. So yeah, join on in. I think that... More than that between YouTube and Facebook. Come on, folks, let's go. That's true. That's true. Let's go. And let's hope when I hit start, it's the right thing, right? Okay. This is our first try with Kahoot. We've used Kahoot internally for a couple of meetings. If you haven't used it before, it's not a virus. Just a website. You enter in a six-digit key and then you can help follow along with questions. Yeah, cool pile on in. And thank you for participating. Yeah, we really appreciate it. I cannot thank you enough. So here we go with the first question. It should come up pretty soon. So you guys want to be looking at your app or at Kahoot on your machine. So which of the following... Could use your cell phone, yeah. Yes, so do you most frequently access in the developer catalog? And you can click multiples. Builder images, Helm charts, operator-backed services or templates. And this is gonna be really interesting because of the delay. We have a 90-second thing going on. Yeah, that might not be enough of a delay. So I'm gonna stop sharing. And I'm... That has literally never happened before. I apologize, everyone. That has literally never happened before in three months of live streaming. The box has never crashed. That's a first. So sorry about that, everybody. Oh, congratulations. Yeah, congratulations, everyone. You got to see the first crash live. First on air crash and burn. You witnessed it here live. Yeah, the crashiest of burns. That was a rough one. All right, so I was thinking it was just my Kahoot poll that was screwed up, but it was more than that. So I'm going to put this in here one more time. Thank you. Unfortunately, when I had to change the time, it did give me another game pin. So if you guys can rejoin Kahoot with 637-918. Thank you very much. We got three players now. If we can get back, it would be awesome. You want to show your screen real quick? Let me get back to some of these questions. Yes, I will. Thank you. I'm sorry about that. No worries. Thank you very much. Now I'm just like intently focused on this box. Like, is it going to die or not? Yeah, oh boy. All right, so you got four people, five, six. Excellence. All right, help us out. Okay, so let's see if we can. You want more than 10%? That's how many we had last time, right? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Hey, thank you all for joining. You can join late if you like. All right, thank you M Hermans and all else. Yeah, feel free to join late if you like via the Kahoot link, kahoot.it, 637-918. And here we go. There we go. So we're going to go back to that same question, which is going to be, and then there is a lag I know, this is a multi-select question. So which of the following do you most frequently access in the developer catalog? Builder images, Helm charts, operator back services, or templates? And we now have, I think, a four-minute wait period. So hopefully that will give us enough time for people. Time to chat about the options. Yeah, the lag only seems to be about 10, 15 seconds right now, which is interesting. It should not be that much. So last time it was more, I think. So that's okay. We're good at talking, right? So operator back services are operators in general. Templates are application templates. And I've cut my video, folks, just to save bandwidth over here. So- Helm charts are new, right? We got the new Helm charts going on. And now that we don't have to rely on Tiller for Helm, we can actively use them with no security concerns. The templates and builder images are probably the oldest, longest running assets we've had hosted in the catalog as long as it's been around. Templates, I think, way back in the early days of Kubernetes, submitted as a upstream feature proposal, which didn't get accepted. We were like had high hopes that was going to be kind of a upstream feature early on. And Helm charts really kind of became the upstream favorite to do kind of a similar feature. So templates kind of fill a similar role as Helm charts, but you'll most commonly see them available on OpenShift clusters. But you can interact with them using OC get templates. They're a API resource like most other Kubernetes resources. I find templates super easy to use as a developer and a low kind of permission barrier for adding new resources into the system. If I want to enable my junior developers or a team of developers, it's a easy way to get them started. Operator backed services, you could find a lot of those in the operator hub, but they'll also be available via the catalog, especially if your admin has already enabled the operator, made them available to the developer side. Yeah, and then the builder images, if you're not already familiar with builder images, that's kind of like a, when we are doing container-based development, I mentioned getting started based on a Git repo earlier. These builder images are kind of the rest of the container minus the Git repo. And also something that your team could work on trying to standardize. Red Hat already has builder images for most languages. And like I mentioned earlier, Wildfly, what, Spring Boot, we have builder images that already have those runtime binaries and the static libraries you would need in order for your app to run. You can build your own images for sure, but builder images allow you to standardize it quite a bit more. Yeah, I think I'm using all of these. So multiple choice, I'm tempted to pick all four. Oh, yeah. And somebody just mentioned too, templates are great and easy to begin with, it's very hard to maintain in one person's experience. And I think operator-backed services, that's the pro of operators, right? Is that that easy to maintain? Yeah, that's a good point. So 57% of people are using builder images, 14% home charts, 86% operator-backed services, and 57% templates. So pretty interesting. So thanks for that one. And now- Wide, varied swath there, yeah. Operator-backed services is the new favorite with this crowd though. Yes, yeah. So the next one, how useful do you think the categories feature is in the developer catalog? So today, right, there's this kind of like accordion-like categories section up on top where you can dive into languages and see different types of languages and look into your databases and maybe be able to select Mongo or something like that. I'm asking how useful is this? Is it very useful, somewhat not useful at all to you? That's pretty much just based on your own use cases. I think later on we'll also kind of talk about in your organization are the categories that we're shipping from Red Hat, the ones that are right for you too, right? So just curious if these are things that are or this widget is something that you're still using. And look at that, okay. So somewhat useful, 50-50 between somewhat and very useful. Okay, good to know. Interesting, yeah. It's not completely worthless. Yeah. Yeah. It's more useful the more cluttered the catalog is. Exactly. Right. The next one is how useful do you think the filter feature is in the developer catalog? So this is a filter by keyword. So would you do something like a Mongo or again, the name of the home chart? Or I guess the other question is, I think we're supporting fuzzy search here, but I'm not sure. Here we go. Oh, well, there you go. So this is interesting. So it doesn't wait the full time if all eight people vote. Just realize that. Okay, so 88% people feel it's very useful and 13% say somewhat useful. Good to know. Let's go to the next one, which will be, how useful do you think the group by operator feature is in the developer catalog? And maybe you've never even used it. No, could you explain that a little bit now? Up on the top here, there is a group by, it usually says group by none. If operator bank is selected, what it will do is show you all of the operator backed services associated with each of the installed operators that have been installed on your cluster. So that's another question. How useful is that? Do you think, do you like that feature? Maybe not. I mean, so I mean, I like the filtering. So you have to select operator backed on the side. So you would have to, and this goes back to our kind of holistic approach to catalogs, I mean, whoops, yeah. So there we go, somewhat and not useful at all. So again, very interesting based on the fact that that's operator specific and we had a lot of people who were interested in operators. So the next question. Interesting indeed, yeah. I'm gonna turn my video back on. I think I figured out what the problem was. I was uploading a ton of videos to the operators. So yeah, that'll do it. All right. So like my filters here in the developer catalog, would you like the ability to filter by provider type? So community versus Red Hat operators provider, meaning it's been provided by Red Hat or it's from my own company or something else or capability level. So operators have capability levels and this is a multiple choice question. Yeah. This is a multiple choice question. So I'm just gonna remind like if people are happened to be cluster admins, they already know that when you go to operator hub, we do have the ability to kind of look at the different capability levels which are basic install, seamless upgrades, full life cycle, deep insights and autopilot. So it's something like that, something that you're interested in knowing when you're picking something from our catalog, knowing that it's gonna be automatically managed on the highest level, et cetera. So. So a lot of chat here. Let's see. It's like search an app on Nome or any OS. We get used to a segment of searching for words, manual filters are I guess kind of unusual, right? Like exactly, right? I think this is a good point, right? Like I hit the command space bar on my Mac, I hit the, you know, the windows key on my Linux box and then I just start searching for stuff. Right. So free form text, it seems to be the way to go is from what I'm hearing here. Yeah. Yeah. So just so you guys know, there's eight people I think that are in. So six people have answered. If the other two do not answer, that means we have to wait for the rest of the two minutes. Yeah, yeah. But it's, if you're still considering the options. Yeah. It's a matter of ago. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for listening. So 86% want provider type and provider itself and capability level for it. I wonder if that's just an education thing, right? Like you might not understand the capability matrix that we have out there potentially, right? Like that could be part of it. Yeah. Or they only want the most, I could see folks saying, I don't want to use an operator if it doesn't have an upgrade feature or in certain environments. I'm only gonna put stuff in here that can be upgraded or maintained over time or whether it works reliably or not is a, but you could definitely, I could see certain capabilities being automatic backups. There's a lot in the list of capabilities that you might want to have in a production environment, for example. I really like the point that, just having these two questions on here, would you like to filter red hat operators versus community or red hat versus your own hopefully illustrates that this is a very open ended way of doing business. It's not all the red hat way. There's a large community of expertise you can leverage using these operators and operator hub. And nice to have it presented in a clean way. So yeah. Oh, so rock out. Doesn't he just ask, yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Go ahead. Why is this filter possibility not an option? I can configure for my console on my own. I mean, that's fantastic feedback. Yes, very good feedback. The admin can decide what goes in to the console, right? But as a developer team, you might pick or choose to use something, one thing over another, I think. Is that an appropriate answer? Ryan, do you have, or Chris, do you guys have anything else to add on there? It's configurable in a different place, right? Like that's it, right? So it's really, you can tailor this to your needs. So we want you to do that, but we also want you to know what all the capabilities are too, right? So we don't necessarily filter for you, you know, right? Right. We're not gonna do any pre-filtering based off what's in there yet, maybe. I mean, maybe that is something we could do. I don't know. You tell me. All right, and I see we just had somebody just join a stream zoner. So if you have not entered the Kahoot game, feel free to. We're getting move on to the next item. And boy, since we are saying this, we will remind everybody that Serena's discussions are all about the future. And we are- Nothing might end up in the real product. Six or even four, seven, it might be never. Or what we're really trying to do is understanding what your requirements, use cases and your preferences are. So would you like a more prescriptive experience as you drill into the catalog? So what do you mean by prescriptive? What I mean by that is I think I showed this in the very beginning when you go into the developer catalog today, you see types, but there's no way for us to say, if it's operator backed, do you wanna filter on the capability level? Do you want to group by operators? Right now what you see there is kind of a smash of things that we think applies to everything, but it doesn't really. So it's like, if you came into the developer catalog at first and said, oh, I want Helm charts, then when you got into the Helm chart experience, I could say, oh, I have three Helm repos. I only wanna be able to look at one of these. And now I wanna do some more specific Helm filtering or looking at details. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense to me. Okay. So this would be more like, I choose something and then like, oh yeah, only these things would apply kind of thing. Yeah, so you don't even show that set of filters till after. Give it the experience as you're looking for a pair of shoes on Amazon. Right, yeah. Once I hit shoes, it's gonna say, what size are you? But if it showed me what size I was before I even said shoes, what if I wanted to put, why a book? Yeah, so solid size, but by prescriptive, do you mean sort of defaulting filters? And to an extent, right? Like, if you start building out a Helm filter. It's really exposing them, right? Yeah. It's exposing what's available once you get into a more detailed or drill into that type of thing that you're looking at. So I can also give- Fast and it's search is the perfect way to describe that, thank you Ryan. Yeah, so you can also think about event sources if that becomes a catalog experience in the future. Some people might wanna just look at connectors, but if we put that connector filter up front, when you are looking at Helm charts, that probably wouldn't go over well, right? So. Yeah, so this is interesting feedback from DreamZoner, just in general, not germane to this question, but think about submitting a PR for functionality for table sorting where you can sort by one row and then click sort to sort by another row while preserving the older sort. Like that's very Excel type functionality, right? Like it's very spreadsheet-y. I feel like that's very cool though. Yeah, yeah. That sounds interesting. I wonder what your, so I wonder what the real use case is. So what is the use case you'd wanna use that functionality for or that feature for? Definitely not. I'd really be interested in understanding that. And then Rockham points out maybe a sort of most used in your cluster, right? Like greatest hits, right? Like most frequently used resources in your cluster kind of thing might be a good option as well. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, we've got the, so there's somebody who hasn't pushed the button yet. So we're still gonna wait those 40 to 60 seconds. That's not me. Depending on what screen you're looking at. Yeah. So this is an interesting piece about this new tool that we're using. So live and learn. Oh, we got eight answers. Yeah, so. Should be serious. Yeah, so I mean, we do need a polling thing for this channel. And this is what we're testing. I think we've found that we definitely want the ability to hit continue. Yeah. And our polling solution. Yeah, and I'm actually afraid to hit skip. Don't hit skip, because I know that'll just just. Yeah. Completely negate the question, right? So we'll wait for a few more seconds here. So some of it's a learning process. We'll get, we'll continue to improve it as we. Absolutely, we are all about learning in public on this channel. Yeah, by the way, nice work, Serena, on the quick action to extend the timer and re-submit the, this is cool, this is fun. Thank you. Yeah, no problem. All right. So would you like more prescriptive experience? 50% say definitely in 50 say maybe there and sure. And that's totally valid, right? Right, like I don't know what it looks like. Sometimes you don't know what you want until you see what the flow looks like. And then you're like, oh, that's not what I thought it was going to be. No way. Right? Or that's not what I thought it would be. Hell yes. Yeah, exactly. Right. All right. So let's go to the next one. So I think these are going to be come around. Oh, one more. Okay. So when you go to the developer catalog, do you typically know what you're looking for? Thus you search or filter so you find it or do you just want to browse and kind of look around to see what's offered? An interesting one. Yeah, that is an interesting one because I know I do the browse and look around after every release. Oh, it's a multiple choice too. Oh, it is? Oh, Dan, well you're gonna, I can take both. Yeah, yeah, maybe I should have that more of like a weighted question. How frequently do you do one than the other? But it is interesting because when we were talking about, some people who might not have been on when we were talking about this earlier, we were talking about in the topology view, should we have like a quick search or a quick add where I want to just say, oh, I want to add Mongo. I'm just going to type in Mongo. It will show me all of the available operator back services, a template, whatever it happens to be. And I can quickly add it from there. Yeah, I think I'm more typically on the side of the equation where I'm, I usually already know what I'm looking for and I'm more likely interested in hiding things from the junior developers so they don't pick the wrong Node.js or the, you know, like I want to clean up the catalog. So folks have a shorter view almost. I know there's plenty of ways to do that. But I think that's more with the experience level and the type of folks that I work with. And if I was newer or just exploring, I'd definitely be searching around. And I definitely do that as well because I need to keep up to date on what's changed in the operator world. And so just browsing through the catalog, oh, wow, there's a new, you know, the MongoDB now has automatic backups or, you know, they've added something new in there. So I definitely do a bit of both. Couple of interesting things I heard there is that you were saying you'd like a different view than some other people that you're working with. And I wonder if I heard you say that, you'd like to limit some of the junior developers see versus what you see. Yeah, maybe strip out some things out of the catalog or, I don't know, maybe give them a auto filter that's pinned in there or something. An applied filter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, when we're thinking about this kind of quick add or quick filter from the topology view, you also, so I think I just saw somebody say something about they might not want to see operator back services. So might they want to be able to say, I want a quick search, but I have some default criteria. Yeah, there's some things I would never want in, right, I never use templates or whatever, right? Like we have foreboding helm charts from our infrastructure for some reason, right? Like, yeah, like there's all kinds of reasons why that could be a possibility, yeah. Yeah. Interesting. This is wonderful feedback, y'all. This is also partially why I always liked templates is because they were just a Kubernetes resource and they already respected all the R back and everything else. And they were only visible to folks that I put into that namespace. And so if you were in the namespace, you saw the templates in the namespace and that's all you need to see, mission accomplished. And so all of this like making a catalog and everything, it was just OC get templates. That's, you know, it was a lot simpler. Oh, look at this. So this is interesting. 89% know what they're looking for. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, I would expect that to be the case, right? Like I'm not gonna jump into OpenShift just fumbling around usually, right? Like I'm gonna jump into that console and probably know what I'm up to. Yeah, yeah. Well, which is cool too, because then you think about that case where we were talking about the quick search or quick add from topology. It makes that even more strong, right? That makes that use case even more, I think. So DreamZoner wants a bulk delete so we can remove completed fail pods, et cetera. So that's very interesting because Ali from the future who is not here might be able to talk about that because that is something that is being worked on from a design perspective. Yeah. And then Rock-Count comments, maybe you can add a role binding to limit the template view. R-Rec would be good for that. So maybe, okay. That's a great idea. There's no bad ideas on this show right now, right? Exactly. All right, so let's go. I think we've got three more. Yeah, just a time check. We are at 9.50 right now. So we have about 10 minutes before the top of the hour. Is comments still on at the top of the hour? No, I don't know. Comments isn't running today. They had the all day thing yesterday. So you're gonna figure the run over today. All right. So this one is around that ability to customize categories in the developer catalog. So does your company organization group, do you think you have requirements that you'd want to be able to add your own categories here or on the flip side, remove some of the ones that you know and never use, right? Clean that thing up a little bit. So we have had a couple of strong customer requests on this actually, around the ability to do that. Like, oh, I've added something new to the catalog. Oh, so like if you- And I've labeled it appropriately, but I don't get to see it because I can't actually change my categories. Yeah. So there we go. So yes, 63% or yes, 38% maybe. Interesting, no, no. So that's great, great feedback. Okay, awesome. Awesome. Let's see, we got two left and we'll see if we do both of them, but does your organization have the need for featured content? So you'll see this on many of our competitors. Like can do content maybe. Or- Like a banner ad at the top of the catalog. What do we recommend? Yeah, here's the four things that we're recommending that everybody uses this week, right? Something like that. I like that idea. Again, this has been something that we have heard kind of maybe- Ryan, that's a you question in there from Dream Zoner. Oh, all right, let's see. It's unrelated, but yeah, you could probably answer that in chat easily enough or live as we wait here. Oh, Dev Files with OC, like that's a, I might have to get back to you on that. Good job. Nice one, Dream Zoner. You guys, you got me, so. Yeah, that's a fantastic thing with Ryan. So good for you. Good job, wow. And actually, so it's interesting that people have brought up Dev Files because I was kind of gonna bring that up with the future Serena thing, but you know, Dev Files will also come in to play in our developer catalog in the future. Asking what is featured content here. I think we answered that, but this would be like things that you specifically say, please use this over this. Yeah, it might be a subset of the catalog that your admin is saying, oh, these are things, or your project admin, not cluster admin, your project admin, team need might be saying, these are the things we think you should be looking at. We even way back when had some requirements around if we ever implemented a search that we should have a weighted search based on what the admin thought was best to use, which was interesting. So 50% yes, maybe, and no, or 25, 25. Okay, good feedback. A junior Dev filter, that's what they want. Maybe a concept of up vote down on content gives you a sense of how we learn to use things. That's an interesting one. Well, yeah, we definitely mentioned Indiana, talk to you mentioned, someone had mentioned, sorry, I forget who, but yeah, like what's most used in the cluster, right? Like they would want that highlighted kind of thing. So that is interesting. Okay, so we've got one more question. Should we try it? It's 1153 Eastern Standard Time. Okay, let's go with one more. I don't remember what it is. Okay, oh, this is when adding to your application, would you like the option to do this quick search and add from the topology view? So rather than having to jump back out to the catalog, would you like go a little search feature right there? You would imagine that that would decrease the amount of context changes, but it might also, you might like that ability to go somewhere else to do an ad. So would be interesting to see where that happens. Ryan, you have an idea for next week already. Isn't that great? Yeah, yeah, I've been wanting to do the Dev Files topic for a while. I think Natali Vento on our team is probably the most experienced on that topic. So I'll see if he's available next week. No promises yet, cause I gotta check in with him. But yeah, I think Dev Files is definitely a hot topic I've been wanting to level up on. And so, yeah, thank you, DreamZoner, for suggesting it. Yeah, yeah, and tell Natali that I asked really nicely. All right, we'll do, yeah. I think he's at KubeCon today. So say hello to Natali if you run into him. No, yeah, he's, well, he was in the booth earlier today when I was with him. So yeah, before I joined here, I was in our Red Hat booth and Red Hat Slack channel in the CNCF Slack and everything. So yeah. Yeah, if you're attending KubeCon, feel free to head right on over to the Red Hat booth and ask Natali in the booth about Dev Files. And if you don't have a pass to KubeCon, you can get an expo hall pass for free and come and ask all the vendors all the questions you want. So just go to the kubecon.io, hit register, you can get a free expo hall pass right now and you can come and ask us all the questions you want there. Awesome. All right, well, I think, thank you everybody for participating in this poll. Hopefully it was interesting for you because it was enlightening for us. Definitely enlightening for us. I'm gonna snip all this chat for you too. Awesome. And I'm also gonna save the results of this and we can share it out somewhere so people can access it if they're interested. And one more thing I'd like to do and I always ask if anybody is willing to give any information on how you think this OpenShift Developer Experience Office Hour is working out. We'd love to hear it. It also gives us an opportunity to provide your email if you do want to interact with us for some more one-on-one type sessions. Yeah, if you've got more feedback, we're all ears. You're always wanting to hear it. Definitely, definitely, definitely want to hear from our users, our customers, our folks that are just out there building containers on a regular basis and what would make their life a little bit better. Do we have a short link for like a Red Hat landing page for KubeCon? I've pasted in the main KubeCon landing page. I have folks in chat had a follow-up on how do they find our sponsor booth and other things. So there's our events page. So it's the KubeCon platform, the virtual platform is the same platform we use for Summit. So if you remember correctly, Red Hat Summit, you had to like jump through a bunch of links to actually get to the thing. I'm gonna try and make it very easy. When you log in to the inExpo and Trotto interface, there's an Expo Hall link, Expo Hall, little view kind of thing. Click that in the bottom left of that first page there. And then you will see like diamond sponsors. That's where we are. Click that and then Red Hat. And that should get you there. If not, ping me on Twitter and I will help you out at ChrisShort. I will get you in there. Don't you worry, I'll help you figure out where to go. And yeah, again, thank you so much for joining us today, everybody. We really appreciate your feedback. This has been really fun for me especially. Yeah, Expo Hall, Diamond, Red Hat, there you go. Okay, I'm perfect. Thank you. So yeah, anything else? Thanks for keeping the machines warm, Chris, keeping the stream going and bringing us through the first major crash. Thank you. Thank you for tolerating it. I'm very sorry it happened on our show. We're trying to get feedback. I'm very sorry about that, Serena. No, it's awesome. Hey, it was a great, great discussion. So thanks to everybody. Yeah, thank you so much. We will catch you. Let's see, when are we on the air again? We're trying not to do too much this week because of coupon, but tomorrow, we do have the level up hour. So if you're new to containers or your junior devs, which I'm hearing there are quite a few of apparently, are new to some of these concepts, right? Like bring them onto the level up hour. We'll get you familiar with some containers and get you up to speed with, you know, working in your environment with containers. You know, it's designed for the rel admins and sys admins of the world to embrace containers and cloud native technologies. But you might pick up a couple of little tricks yourself too. I know I have a long way. Langans is a genius when it comes to containers. So it's super awesome to just have him for an hour. So yeah, please come by tomorrow at 9 a.m. Eastern 1500 CEST since we're in the Amsterdam time zone this week. Thank you both, Ryan. Thank you, Serena. Thank you, everyone for joining. And I hope you have a wonderful rest of your days. Thank you. Thanks everybody. Thanks Chris. See you next time. Bye bye.