 half an hour late. The first meeting or the first item on the agenda is the agenda, which I would love to have amended as we just said. I don't even see this meeting on board docks. Yeah, the way that I found it is that I went up to the top because it's right corner and went and clicked the public safety and police commission joint committee and then it was listed in there but it wasn't listed sort of on the front page which I found to be confusing and at first I thought it wasn't publicly warned. That's how I found it. I don't know if there might be a faster way to find it. Great, thank you. Sorry about that. Then the first item on the agenda is the agenda and I would love to have a motion on that, especially one that might move the public form to the end. Go ahead, Shree. Motion that we, sorry. Chippewa, go ahead. Motion that we amend the agenda to move the public form to the end of our meeting. And approve it, I assume. Seconded by Stephanie. Any discussion? All those in favor? Oh, go ahead, Perry. Do you want us to remove 3.04, 4.04, and 5.04 and just take the action sections out of the agenda? I think it's okay because we can still have discussion and then we can just not take an action because it says if any. Okay, that's fine. Any other discussion? Great. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Passes unanimously. The next thing is the minutes from our last meeting which was February 1st. Do I have a motion to approve those minutes? Moved by Commissioner Hart. Seconded. Seconded by Commissioner Gommash. Any discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes unanimously as well. So next item on our agenda is Salita Consultant's next steps. So I will promote Karima, the panelists, and then Karima, you have the floor would love an update this next week in the NPAs and then happy to have commissioners give. And again, since we have kind of method the public forum on this, if somebody's viewing the recording in retrospect, if folks have suggestions that they would like us to pass on to Talitha, we're more than happy to do that. Thank you again and I'm so glad that we could convene with the transition to this Zoom room. I would like to reintroduce ourselves. My name is Karis. All the HS are pretty useless in my name. So it's Karis Nin and I have my colleague Karima Edwards joining us as well. And the last time we participated in the joint committee meeting, we walked through the work plan, right? So now we have a finalized work plan, which I will share my screen, the graphic representation of the finalized work plan. So just bear with me for a second here. Okay. So here we are. I know it's zoomed out. Let me. So we did our first kickoff meeting and we are headed to hosting two workshops, right? With peace stakeholders identified by joint committee. It was a Dandan G, I believe, and there were 33 peace stakeholders listed on the document. And we sent out with the help of the city employee and also counselor and commissioner, high tower and commissioner Hart, we got the invitations out. And as of today, we have 36% responded, which means 12 out of 33. And last Friday, we even called some of these organization who had not responded. And if they didn't respond, we left the voice messages. And so out of that effort, we had two additional registrations for the 25th. Okay. So the workshops are scheduled for tomorrow and also for the 25th. Tomorrow, Tuesday, from 12 to 2.30. And then Thursday from, Karima, help me out here, 6 to 8.30. Just like the joint committee has requested, we gave some variety in terms of time. And also, so just so you know, for tomorrow workshop, we are right here. We I'm going to stop sharing my screen for a second so we can see each other faces. We have nine people. Okay, so we have nine people registered. And if excuse me, Keras for tomorrow, we have 11 now. So we have 11. And if the joint committee would like me to read out the name of the organizations, I am happy to do so. Would you like that or no? Karima, can you do that? And you're muted. I understand. I just put you on the spot. So if you need a few minutes, I can give you. I can cover something else. Yeah, you can go ahead while I'm pulling that back up. Share the external facing agenda, right? So we with with us, what we do is we create two different, sorry, my hands are two different agenda. One is internal facing, which facilitators use. And the external facing agenda is the one in which we're going to hand to the to the participants. So I would like to share my screen for the, you know, like Karima actually has. Oh, Keras. Yes. While you're doing that, this is Shireen. I'm just wondering how appropriate is it for us to follow up with some of these 20 some odd organizations that have not responded yet? Okay, so let's see here. 23 minus 11. So it's 22. And then remember, we don't have all contact info for all of them. We are missing, I think eight of them have no contact info. So 22 minus eight is can someone help me out here? And what is it? 14. 14. So we it is absolutely appropriate for the joint committee to call on those 14 organizations. Okay, so I did put I even highlighted Audrey has the list where certain contact info missing. Okay, so there are two ways that the joint committee can come alongside one is to get those eight organizations contact info or to call the 14 organizations to participate on the 25th. Or even tomorrow, right? It's not new in any way. So Okay, so both I'm sorry, is the 25th at noon? I apologize. 25th, that's not noon. 25th is let's pull it up. Six to eight, three. Okay. Okay, I do this a lot. And let me just get the response rate. I am, I am so overjoyed. Let's see here. So 11 plus three is by 22. So I only I don't count all 33. Okay, I only count the ones that have contact info. So 13 divided by 22, that is 59% response rate. From my experience of doing community planning, this is I am applauding each of you for for half 60% response rate. Okay, and that is assuming no show, of course, right? All right, so this is our external facing workshop agenda. And it is very important to us that it is presented as a city of Burlington initiative. And Taliba needs to to not not be right there. So we just put our logo much smaller. And we will be using the same agenda for both workshops. And most of the language here is pulled out of the resolution and also the RSV. Okay, so I'm just going to give a moment for you all to take a look. Pardon my notes from the side here. As you can see, the gut of why we're together is for us to document and invite people into conversation, right? Therefore, we dedicate most of the time to the agenda item, let the community speak. Okay, and of course, knowing that this is not representative of the community, but these are key stakeholders who are part of the community. Any comments or feedback? We are listening. I don't know if it's sorry, I'll open the floor first. I can't see everyone though. So folks can just jump in themselves. Hi, this is Milo Grant. So is it possible or maybe they're posted somewhere that I'm not aware of? If we have a few other stakeholders that we want to make sure are included, how do we get, do we just forward their information to you? Or can we get the invites to forward to them? How would that work? I can feel this question if you want me to, Karis. Yeah, please. Yeah, so we have the invite text and I'm happy to forward it. I think for the workshop tomorrow and I will leave this up to Karis. I don't know if we want to add more folks, but for the one on Thursday. We have planned on 15 people per workshop and that is 15 people with three facilitators. And so Karima, I would love to hear how many people have actually registered for the 25th because we can certainly fill more for the 25th, which is also happening in the evening time. So yeah, I think the 25th would be the preferred date because we only have three registered for that date. And I do have the list ready. I want to make sure I took away people's mail addresses. Should I just share my screen? Okay, in that case. Why don't you just read the organization aloud because we're still taking comments about the agenda content. Okay. So I have steps. Vermont is the last one that registered Burlington Community Justice Center, a new place, Greater Burlington YMCA, Vermont Center for Independent Living, Legal Services Vermont, Outright Vermont, Turning Point Center for Chittenden County, Education Justice Coalition of Vermont and King Street Center are all registered for tomorrow. Then for on Thursday, we have Vermont Center for Independent Living, Community Health Centers of Burlington and Howard Center. Yes, I just got a message. I can put those in the chat. I think generally if we just sent the list of orgs to all of the counselors, I think that'd be helpful, especially if there's eight that we don't have contact info yet. I wonder if some of us might be able to provide that contact information. So I think it'd be good. Yeah. And I can pull up the list right now. Would that be helpful? Yeah. Oh, Audrey, yes. I could just tell you real quick, there were a couple members on the contact list who would rather their contact info not be public, like publicly shared necessarily their phone numbers and stuff. So I just wasn't sure with open meeting laws and sending to everyone on the community how that works. So I just if you can just send a list with that information scratched out. I just want to clarify if we could just send a list of the organization name and then I will highlight the ones I will color code it highlight the ones that are missing contact info and then I will highlight the ones that have registered. Do you also want it in the chat now? I think an email is okay. We can post that on board docs. And then I was just, oh, sorry. I just I feel like if I saw the list now it would give me an idea of like, I mean, I know the agenda says, like, who's missing? And I like, who's not here? Who doesn't have a seat at the table? And so I just, I don't know what, if you're going to send me if you're just sending the email now, that's fine. But that's why I was trying to kind of process it as we go because I do want to make sure like we're making sure that the orcs who are attending are, you know, kind of a diversity of perspectives. I have a way of sharing it without sharing the contact info. Do you want to see it now? That sounds great. All right. Here we go. Sorry to be like asking for it a bunch and you shall receive with consultants. You got to ask them. So I'm glad you guys are doing that. Okay, so the yellow highlighted are missing contact info. I don't have the ones that have registered highlighted yet. So I can if we want to start taking, I can reach out to the black perspective. Okay. I can use techno. My hand is doing the scrolling. Oh, wait, let me move. I don't like immediately have a contact for ALV, but they should be pretty easy to get in touch with. But I can reach out to ALV. I'm happy to. Okay. Okay. So Commissioner Hart and then also Commissioner Freeman has that and then the black perspective is Councillor Hightower. And I can do a square. Yeah. I put a note in the chat. I'm happy to reach out to everybody all at once. Yeah, having multiple points of contact could be helpful too. It just expresses how much we want them. Yeah, we're interested. Everyone here has been initially reached out to and also community health centers of Burlington. We do have info for now. They signed up, right? If I understand for Thursday, they're signed up? Yes. Oh wait, Audrey, can you clarify? So you did invite the people who are highlighted? I've reached out to everyone in this list and I've like been had back and forth with folks from ALV and the black perspective, but haven't received any person who they've identified as a main point of contact yet and willingness to do this. Some I called and I've just never heard back from a couple of times or emailed not heard back from community health centers of Burlington. I got received a phone call from on Friday and they are signed up for Thursday, I believe. Okay. Wonderful. And then Audrey, oh my god, the turnaround that we had was quite short. So I was so impressed with how quickly you could get the columns filled up. So thank you for your support there. Okay, I'm going to keep going. Okay, so just to clarify, we are still doing a reach out, but it's just going to be like the context now is it'll be a second round reach out, like we've already reached out to them once through Audrey through my email or maybe your own kind of research. Okay. Could I just ask a question? So those highlighted in yellow, you don't have contact info for. Do we know which of these others you actually have heard back from or might need us to reach out to them? Yes, we do. And then Karima has, she just, she just read the list of who registered. And so in addition to what I'm doing right now, I will be sending an email to the joint committee with all the color codes. Okay, who registered was missing contact info and who we haven't heard. As this one goes by, sorry to cut in one more time. Hands reached out to me and they are supportive of the work, but are not willing to participate. So. And we got the same response from AARP when we called on Friday that they would not participate. And I can also send you a list so that we are not over burdening and over, you know, over our reaching. I can also send a list of who we called and left voice messages for. Okay, so it sounds like the list that we probably need is who would be worth reaching out to again. And then we can, yeah, we can figure out who should do that. So if it's like we just need a contact person, and we just want to invite them again. Yeah, so. So I would recommend out of the yellow highlighted, if you have contact info already, like, for example, the example is that, you know, the community health, right? Audrey has the contact info, and then it got updated, and then now it's registered, right? So the reachable fruit would be to contact those who we have contact info, and then we can focus on the other groups for ladder engagement. Right, I meant having an updated list that just says like, not interested versus like, worth reaching out to again, because we probably have contact info as a group for all of these, like, and so if someone was just like, yes, thank you for contacting us, we will not be there, then eliminating those. So I think that should be determined by by the Community Joint Committee, not us, right? Because we don't necessarily know the organizations. And so what we can offer is color code, and then and then let the community decide, let the Joint Committee decide. Sorry, I just meant the latest update on like, where your contact is with them. So if your contact has been, oh, we don't need to be reached, like, we're supportive, but not interested. We don't need to contact those people. So just highlighting which ones are worth reaching back out to tell you right now, it's only ARP that declined the invitation. The rest of them, we just left voice messages. Okay. Okay, great. Noted. So worth reaching out to everybody except ARP at hands. Thank you. Okay. We feel good about the list. Go ahead, Stephanie. I think they're my concern is the new American community isn't really sufficiently represented. So I talked to a few other associations in the chat, including the Somali Bantu Association, the Nepali Association, and a couple of others, Mercy Connections and the Neighborhood Planning Committees. Okay, the Neighborhood Planning Committees will get an update in a second, but we are going to go through them separately in March. So that'll be kind of part of the stakeholder process. Okay. So may I pull up the agenda? And, Karis, I don't know if you're open to, if you have the facilitators agenda. Oh, yes, I can share. So let me pull up the facilitator agenda for internal use. Again, let me make the screen bigger. Please ignore the 90 minute workshop. We were kind of barring language from other work. So this is two and a half hours. And external, also please ignore the time there, because, again, it's borrowed from other workshops, but it's two and a half hours. Again, the gut of the whole workshop is the community is speaking. And we intend to, at least for the 23rd workshop for tomorrow, we plan on doing two breakout sessions, because there's 11 people, and these are details, right, like what the facilitators will be talking. So it will be me, Karima, and Sarah Wilson. And we are going to be using this tool called Mural. And Mural is visual communication, where everybody take a look at what the agenda is. And it looks very much like a graphic summary. So people are not just staring at documents and stuff, but live documentation in a very interactive way. We also pull our community agreement and facilitation style from the Institute of Belonging and Othering, Dr. John A. Powell. So this is something that we use as facilitators. We're grounding ourselves once again on why we're there. And we are also mindful that the charge that we have is to give recommendation on public input process. But before we can give recommendation on public input process, what's important is for all of us to have level setting understanding of what the public input process currently is, right? So we're also going to do a quick review on what public input problem. So when someone files a complaint, how do they do that? What are the documents completed? I mean, our firm did a research on that. And we're just going to give, instead of assuming that participants understand that, we're going to give a quick overview first. And then we'll have a discussion in the breakout session. These are the guiding inquiries that we will be utilizing in the breakout session. Again, pull directly from the RFP and also the resolution. And after the breakout session, I'm going to give 10 minutes because two and a half hours is a long time for one sitting, right? I mean, council members and commissioners do that. But other people, if we really want them having a riveting conversation, we need to give them at least 10 minute break. And then we will convene back as a big group of 11. And we will report back again to each other. Okay. And this part, we're not using Jamboard for this. Ignore that. We're using Mural. Again, this section, who is missing from the dialogue from their perspective, right? From the Joint Committee perspective, it might be a little different. But we are wanting to hear from their perspective, from the key stakeholders' perspective, who is not at the table. And then the latter portion is basically showing them the graphic summary of the whole work process to show them where we're headed. And then also asking them, with the public survey that we will launch, what are the questions that they think we need to be asking? Right? Great. Can you, sorry, can you scroll back up? Can you go to the first set of questions that you're asking in the small breakout groups? So this is, I really, this is going to be kind of nitty-gritty feedback. And I realize it's a little late in the game to give that. But I would almost say it feels like there's two different, one, I think the beginning part is a little long in terms of intro. I know it takes a while to get people used to Mural and kind of working on it and comfortable with it. But I guess I'm a little bit worried of the fact that it's like we're bringing these community members together and I don't feel maybe we're spending enough time getting information from them. And I also feel like there's two different sets of questions that you're asking. The first one being around safety and experiences. And the other one being around public input, which seems like two really different sets of questions. This is just a recommendation, but I would split those into two different, like two different small group exercises that people are doing in different groups and that have like a different feel to them. And yeah, because those are a lot of questions to answer at once, just as a small group, just to talk through. Whereas I feel like you could use a mix of exercises, even if it's a large group like where people are like adding sticky notes of different words or something. But I would split those two exercises and make them different. And so that's, I think that if I were to make one major change, that would be to spend a little bit more time on both of them, break them up into two things and spend. I know that it's important to build that community at the beginning, but spend just a little bit less time doing that and more time taking, using the questions to do that. The way it is set up right now, we still have 20 minutes, even with, even with the lengthy intro. The reason I do lengthy intro, I mean, first of all, there's 11 people. So even if we give three minutes per person or two minutes per person to talk and introduce themselves, the organization they represent, that's 22 minutes, right? And I think maybe I'm presumptuous here, but from my experience, it's also helpful for participants to hear each other's story and then their service recipients. So Counselor Hightower, even with this, we still have 20 minutes left. So I can add on an exercise that you mentioned, and then do 20 minutes of the second exercise. And we're still at 530. Okay, that works for me. Yeah. And I think I know that I have a habit of not giving enough time for intros. So that is, so appreciate the pushback on that. But yeah, I think definitely having that be two different things. And again, exercises, I'd prefer to have two very different fields than just note taking or something like that. I think something where it's, you know, one of them maybe is talking through it, one of them is, you know, some kind of sorting exercise or something like that, I think would be just helpful in terms of people also being engaged for two and a half hours. That's my only feedback. That's a good question of the joint committee. Are we properly or adequately representing the voice, and there is no voice, but input from the schools? I just didn't see that in the list, but for example, Henry Sparks or others. Henry Sparks is invited. Okay, I just wanted to make sure that we have some school, some folks from the schools included and invited. Okay, so he specifically was invited? He was, I assume he was invited. I passed the name on to Karima and Audrey. And I thought that I saw his name. Audrey, do you remember? I remember including his name in the email. So do we have any other? Sorry, this is sort of tangential, but I just want to make sure that we've got school voices represented. So I'm wondering if we have any other individuals. A lot of our organizations will cover schools, but it's something we should think about the next, you know, as folks think about this tonight. And I'm really glad that K-12 is specifically called out, but I see on the list that there are a lot of young people serving institutions invited. So whether we capture engagement through the schools or whether we capture engagement after school program, I do have a question on the list. So the initial list has 33 and now it's being added on. So and I want to be very realistic. Today's the 22nd and the 25th is the next workshop. And so what is the expectation from the Joint Committee if the list, let's say goes to 40 or 45, right? Which I don't mind if it's generative because this is just part of the process. So we can engage in different pieces of the process, but I do want to note if there is expectation that all of them are re-engaged at some point. If so, communicate to us sooner than later. Okay. Yeah, my first instinct and happy to hear other people's thoughts is to say that if there is an overabundance, which if I don't think that there will be, but if there ends up being more than 15 for that Thursday, that we ask folks to start engaging through that NPA process that we have in any way. I have a follow up on the list as well. Is this a good time to bring it up? Yeah. When I looked at the list of stakeholders who have agreed or already signed up to participate, I am pretty sure that all of them are white led and majority white in terms of their leadership. And I'm just wondering, especially if we're talking about police issues and even to the extent of police violence, which is predominantly and disproportionately impacting black and brown folks, I'm just curious, how are we going to mitigate that if all the stakeholders end up being white folks who end up participating? So I don't know. It's just something I was thinking about looking at the list and trying to kind of troubleshoot around that and if there are barriers to folks participating, why that might be. It's just something I was thinking about. And I'm so appreciative of that. And many of you know my story, also first generation immigrant. So that part of the voice is I'm always looking out for. So one of the questions that we have set up in our introduction is actually asking each organization who shows up. And that's why the intro is long, right? Tell us about your constituency we serve, right? And then I was also going to ask which ward and district the organizations are. Because just like counselor, high tower saying, we're also going into neighborhood associations. And so we can ask them, let's say, let's just give an example. Boys and girls club says, hey, we serve a lot of Somali speaking, Burmese speaking youth from Ward 8, right? And so we're going to say, hey, do you have contact information or trusted messenger? Because on March 22nd, we're going to be meeting with the NPA at Ward 8. And we want to reach out to them to say, hey, we're going to be there. Can you come? We're going to be there. Can we meet you where you're at? Because not everybody comes to neighborhood planning associations, to be honest with you. But we can go to their, I don't know, Friday evening gathering, right? Yeah. And I wonder if that would be a good way to also reach out to the organizations that Stephanie just put in the chat, which is the Somali Bantu Association or the Nepali Association. Hi, this is Milo. I want to echo the same concern, which is why I wanted information on the workshops so I could forward them to, because I'm thinking in terms of particular individuals who have jobs where they work specifically with being liaison between families and schools, where they have that experience, especially working with a lot of new American families. So they don't necessarily fall in with some of the organizations. So that's why I wanted that information forwarded, because if we can somehow, it's kind of last minute for them, but if we can possibly see what their schedule's like and they could be part of the conversation, I think that would be really helpful. And then just going forward, any outreach that you continue to schedule, if we can just make sure that we're all copied on that, so that we're really making sure that people who are really disconnected in the community, we need to gather them to be part of this process. So we're going to have to be really proactive, but in order to be really proactive, we're just going to need a longer lead time for the information around the workshops, the MPA meetings. Whatever we have scheduled at this time, if we could get a schedule, just every time the schedule's being updated, if we can get a copy of that. And then where are we going to alert people when we're at the point where, as opposed to dealing with particular individuals or representatives of these organizations, when do we start to pull in the general public, and how are we going to raise that awareness? So I'd just like to see us get more, now that we're really getting into this, get more lead time as to what workshops, activities, communications, forms, whatever it's going to be, when is it going to be, what time is it going to be, and how are we, as a committee, as a commission, what are we going to do to be really proactive to pull people in? Thank you. Excellent. And I do have the, it's a great segue to showing the work plan again, just to see the comprehensive flow of the process. Commissioner Mello, would it be helpful for you, for me to pull up that approved work plan so you can see holistically what the whole process is? Well, I understand the process holistically. I guess it's, I, you know, I have to go through my emails. I feel like along the lines, I had said, okay, when are the, some of the specific dates? And I don't remember receiving those. And now we have them this week. And I just have in the back of mind a couple of people that I really want to pull into this process because they've been in it. They're like in it with these people that are really, you know, experiencing things in our community that we need to make sure are shared and recorded, but they've been so disconnected because, you know, they've been ignored. So it's more or less, I understand our overall plan, but it's like now that we're scheduling things, making sure we're getting out that information of when and where and how where things are going to be happening. So I don't consider the list to be a closed list of those organizations. I'd like to think that it's, it's an open list where we can continue to pull people in. I guess that's the way I always interpret it. Thank you. So, Milo, I will send the text for the invitation that we sent out. And then for you, my car sales, I assume you'll follow up with the list without the contact information for folks to add what outreach they're doing and who's following up with organizations. That seemed like a good, good path forward. Yes. And the list in the email that I sent as an update this morning to Councillor Hightower and Commissioner Hart, the link is a live link that you could click. And it's already there. And then the yellow highlighted are the ones. Great. So do you want me to, just in terms of the contact information, should I just black that? I don't want to mess with your system. So do you? Absolutely fine. Our system's already out and functioning. So just if you want, yeah, you should be able to add it. If not, I'll give permission. It's also open to share with the committee. I just want to back up and say something that, you know, part of the, like you, Commissioner Milo, I think that this list needs to be generative, not close. But unfortunately, when we signed the contract, it locks it saying, you know, addendum G. And then the contract was signed on January 20th. And that day, there was only 24. But I kind of like didn't really care. I said, just make it generative because like you, I want it to be as inclusive as possible. So it's just a matter of us, like, you know, managing our expectations a little bit as we go through the process because time and space is the limitation right now, especially time, space is just we're all on the computer anyway. So I do, I definitely appreciate that. I think it's just more of a matter of, and some other people may feel differently. I would like to see when these communications are going out. I would like to know when they're going out, who they're going out to. So that way, at that point, can gauge an opportunity to reach out and say to you say, Hey, I have this individual, this is what they're involved in. And I think I can get them to participate. You know, can we make a space for them, but can't do that if don't know what, you know, now that we're we're actually scheduling things. I just feel we as committee that that's information I'd like to see. That's what I'd like to to know. Thank you. I do want to avoid copying everyone on the invitations. I think the hope was I think there were two points kind of the when we first meet the RFP. And then as we were sending out the invitations, I hope that I gave an invitation that said if people have any other organizations, let us know. So I don't think that it's effective to have the whole committee kind of copied on invitations. I don't think that's it. So I would prefer to kind of keep going with Sherin and I being copied. I think we can be more communicative about where we are in the process and what's happening and what we're doing. But I hope that folks will take kind of the time points that are given to give feedback to give that feedback because I it. Sure. And I did at the time, I said, I said the same thing I'm saying now where I that there is particular individuals who've done certain work within the community, not necessarily part of these organizations. Will we be able to pull them in once these things start to get scheduled? And the impression that I was given was that yes, we would. So now we seem to be at that point. And now I'm saying that it's it's hard to do that if we don't know when these are coming up. May I? So I don't I don't want to my apologies. I just want to say that I don't want to give their name without having talked to them about it first. But I'm happy to, you know, give general information and just say, this is the individual. This is the work they've done. This is who specifically they've worked with in terms of children in the school system and their families. So that's why I'm looking for more information. That is something that I would find to be very helpful and, you know, help keep my faith in the whole process. I mean, I have faith in the whole process, but I would prefer more information than less. Thank you. I think that's fair, Milo. I think that was probably misunderstanding on my part, because I've seen when I didn't get contact that everybody was okay with the contact that you had. And I don't think I heard and not that you didn't say, I don't think I heard you say that you wanted to reach out to folks directly as opposed to us doing that. So I think that was just a misunderstanding on my part, which I apologize for. Audrey, I can't find the email. If you can send me the email text that we sent to people, so I can send it to Milo so she can share it with her contacts. That would be great. I do want to go ahead, Karis. I would like to know if the finalized plan, which looks like this, whether or not it's been shared with the whole Joint Committee, because it's been broken down into days and activities. I think that is very important to share to the rest of the committee. I don't think that I have done that, if you haven't done that. But I think that would be a good thing. Again, noting that if you share it with us, please also share it with Shannon and Skyler, so they can post it on Board Docs. It will be a public document. That's the piece that I, my understanding is if I share it to Commissioner Hart and High Tower, Skyler, Nash, and Audrey, that it will get forwarded to the Joint Committee, so that's not the case. I think it's just, so you should have everybody's email. So if you have something, just to make sure there's no bottlenecks, because I do get a lot of emails, it's better just to do it to everyone. Or if you want it forwarded, say forward and post to Board Docs at the top of the email so that we know that. Okay. I will do that. I will also find all the commissioners and the counselors email. Great. So we've got that process locked down. I'm glad we're figuring out these nitty gritties. And then the last thing that I wanted to ask is, oh, sorry, Karen, go ahead. So what you're saying is the process is now the consultancy is going to email everyone I'm just trying to understand it. The work plan. The work plan. The work plan. Okay. And then it gets posted to Board Docs because they're going to also include Audrey and folks who do that. That's okay. Okay. Shannon and Skyler would be the post, people who post to Board Docs. Okay. Do we have so for any documents that go to the full council? Also should go to Shannon and Skyler for now until we have a staff person again so they can post it to Board Docs. Awesome. Do we have any other questions on the work plan or the meeting tomorrow? Did we see the work plan? Yes, I was going to say, like, it's unfair that if you have to comment without seeing it, is it okay if I pull that up for the council? Okay. Yay. Here we go. And maybe the thing to do is to walk through any changes that were made between the last time that we saw it. So the change. So the last time we showed up, the Joint Committee gave us a really good feedback and the yellow and green highlighted are the processes that we added after the kickoff meeting. Okay. And so as you can see, the workshop is happening, both of them. And then the Joint Committee gave us information as to meeting each neighborhood planning assembly. So we added that. And then specifically, Council member High Tower want us to do active public survey, not just passive and posting it, you know, hey, take this survey. So we ensure that our methods would be not just limited to online passive way, but then that we will employ multifaceted engagement approach. So we also added that in a social innovation as well as culturally grounded. And what that means is that if we need to, you know, translate or do a one-on-one interview to lead the consults, we have nine professionals who speak nine languages. So we can also do that. Okay. And then we were also asked to add a type of community ceremony where the initiative is recognized and acknowledged that it's been launched. So we also added this portion, right, towards the end of the process. Now, all these color codes are different teams internally who we're using. Please bear in mind, day one starts at our contract start date. Okay, week one starts on contract start date, which was January 20th. Okay. So here we are. We are in already and tomorrow is when the first workshop happens and then the 25th is the next one. And E, all the color coded, again, it's our internal color code system. I don't haul around all my consultants for everything because it's very expensive to bring the whole team. I calculated it. If you bring the whole team, the money will not go far. Therefore, we are very strategic with who we pull in. Okay. And so the end of the week, this week, we're going to be analyzing the qualitative data that we gathered in the breakout sessions and also in workshops. Week seven, we will continue to analyze the data gaps and all that from the key stakeholders. And by week, by the 3rd of March, the Joint Committee should get a graphic representation of what we have heard and the key learnings from the workshops. Okay. And again, these are tentative dates. We are already in contact with Liam and to plan for neighborhood planning assemblies to make schedules with them. I am using my executive decision to hold off on scheduling until after the first workshop because I want to see how it goes first. So we will be contacting the NPAs by Wednesday of this week. And then here's the tentative. By the time we launch the public survey, we have already spoken to the key stakeholders on the list, as well as theoretically, as well as some of the neighborhood planning associations. So we have a conceptual idea and some themes as to what to include on the public survey. Again, of course, all the questions and the draft will be reviewed by the Joint Council first. That's why I put JCE plus JCE input. So you all are called JCE. So you'll get to review that, put public comment, and then only in partnership with the local community partners, the ones that we're going to be interacting on the 23rd, 25th, as well as the neighborhood association, we can launch the public survey tentatively on this date. I want to be very clear. Once we get to task 3A, March 15th, everything will be fuzzy. Because if the Joint Council says, Joint Committee says, we need more respondents, then we can extend the public survey. Right now it's only six days, and we may need more days than that. So all the dates I have listed here are very idealistic and tentative, starting at task 3B. So please hold those dates lightly, because we'll have to revisit the conversation, depending on the survey participation rate. Let me pause there and see if there are any questions first. So I have one, sorry. So one, I don't have this, the last version I have is the semifinal. So I was going to forward it, but I don't know if there's any changes, so I didn't want to confuse folks. Yeah, you have it. It was sent, I apologize, it was sent on a Friday, so maybe it didn't show up on your, yeah, I copied Commissioner Hart as well. Okay. And then the other thing that I would say is, I don't know if I made this comment back to you all, but the NPAs and scheduling those for, I don't know, is that two weeks from now with, I'm not sure that that's giving them enough notice. You did mention, so I appreciate that. That's why it's also in the green highlight meaning we may have to work around their schedule. Okay. So yeah, I didn't know if there would be a change made, because I think that was the last version that I had. It seems aligned with this. Yeah, I am worried, I think about, because I'm not sure if the NPAs will want to host a separate open house, if they'll want to do it as part of their meetings anyway. I don't know how NPAs outside of my NPA work. There's kind of four chunks of them, I think in the city. And so, yeah, I think being flexible on that so that it works with the NPAs, and they have time to advertise this in a way that allows broad public input, because I think some folks who don't usually join the NPA might want to join for this kind of input process, and some folks who usually join may not. So just making sure that we're flexible with them. And the other thing I was going to say on that is I talked to an NPA steering committee member today and they weren't sure, they didn't realize the connection between this and kind of the broader racial justice and police reform question that's open. And so I think tying that in the invitation and making sure that they kind of have a decision making process, I guess making sure that we have, making sure that the invitation is tailored to how the NPAs work and giving them the kind of options of saying, do you want to do this as part of one of your NPA meetings? Do you want to have this as a separate meeting? And yeah, helping them kind of think through that decision and how to advertise it. I asked a question about that. It's Karen. I wanted to ask thinking about my own NPA and thinking about all wards NPA. Just trying to understand is it the joint committee that puts out a message that says, hey, we're doing this. Do you want to be involved? Is that better than coming from a consultancy that no one knows? Some sort of messaging around that? Because most of us are active in our NPAs or working with our NPAs. So I'm wondering if that might not be something that we might want to jump into. Excellent question. And I love that you all are seeing gaps. So having thought that through and we work with other communities and outsiders coming in, who are these people? So I did ask Liam, who is the NPA liaison to send an email, not me, but I gave him a verbiage of who we are and then the charge that we have to charge right on the RFP. So Liam sent an introduction out to all the NPAs. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. And I guess for the follow up, I don't know if, I mean, it can be really complicated to coordinate the four different, but I do, I wonder if, I did see the verbiage that was sent to Liam, but I don't, I feel like it had a lot on kind of explaining to Letha and I'm not sure that it had enough on kind of explaining the part of the process and like what this is for. And so making sure that the next thing that goes out is really tied to what this means to the community and why we want them to be involved. So why don't we show you, oh sorry, I saw the hand, but I just want to say why don't, why don't we make sure when we contact, contact with the NPA, before we do that, we will run it by you, our, our verbiage. And we're going to pull directly from the invitation that went out to the key stakeholders. So we have a consistent messaging. Great. Great. So things to send to folks, if you don't mind is the work plan, sorry, Stephanie, and then is the work plan the language for the NPAs? And there was one more thing. Was there one more thing? Maybe I'll think of that one. Yes, yes, it's the graphic representation of the process. Okay, that's, that's, yeah, the work plan. Yeah, the work plan. Stephanie, did you have your, yeah, here's a thought to think about. I'm not sure if it's a good idea, but I'll just put it out there. I wonder if it makes sense for the joint committee to pose to all of the front porch forums about this and so to alert people that there will be an NPA process. And then, as you said, Zariah, the situated in sort of the decisions that have been made and to identify this as part of the process that happened since the resolution was passed this summer, that that might get disseminated in a way that would alert people to be on the lookout for, for the communications from to leave them. Great. I think that's a great idea. Sorry, I thought of this. So the work plan along with the graphic representation is one to the list of folks that we should reach out to to try to get them to come, especially on Thursday, but maybe also tomorrow. And then the language for the NPAs, which we can disseminate one version of on front porch forum, and then you all can reach out to the steering committees at the same time in parallel processes. Yes, I got it. And then Karima got it too. Great. Work by committee. We're making it happen. Okay. Are there other questions? And I apologize that this has been a clunky process on and you all have just seen a screenshot of the work screenshot, but screen share of the work plan, which isn't as, but it hasn't changed super substantially from the first round, which we all did have. Yes, that's correct. If I could just share the graphic representation really quick, because not everybody is a, you know, verbal communicators, some of us are visual. So okay, here we are to workshop. And then this is this is the change those three bubbles, right? Post for neighborhood online open houses, and we will be super flexible. And then present themes to key state. This is another time in which that 40 in which key stakeholder lists is going to be useful because there's another opportunity. And then the public survey again after that, these bubbles are going to be super fuzzy in terms of date, but I would like to assure the joint committee our contract won't be over until June 20. So be rest assured, we're not going to rush the process, but we will, we will have to keep moving along, but we have until June 20 to walk alongside you. And this bubble of counselor high tower, I hope you are happy with the this extra extra bubble here, that is the community ceremony for the equitable engagement and participation initiative. And who knows, you know, by June, if many of us are vaccinated, perhaps I could meet you and present in person, we shall see you right. You're very optimistic. Any other thoughts or questions? Great. May I ask one question? Not to put anybody on the spot, if you could either, you know, anybody participating in the key stakeholder engagement tomorrow or Thursday, any member of the council, or even to pop in for two minutes or three minutes? Okay, do not answer that question. It's not a question, it's an invitation. And I will make sure that we must send the links and all the access info. Okay. If you can even show up for two, three minutes and show support, it would mean a lot. Um, the caveat to that being not more than five of you, five of us popping in at the same time. And the caveat is because open meeting law. So our subject matter that we're dealing with and if there's more of us and it's about informing, then it could be considered decision making and Stephanie. I mean, I think that's worth checking on when we had school board meetings about the budget as many commissioners as could make it would show up. We weren't participating, we were listening. So I, you know, it might be worth checking on that to see if that's a real impediment. That's true. As long as we're okay with not participating and just listening, I don't think that I can make sure I mute you all. That's great. I will check on, um, joy with that to be sure, but I think you're right, Stephanie. Okay, any other, I guess thoughts and suggestions on, um, I know on what we should be doing going forward in terms of communicating better with the committee, because I feel like that was a little bit of a frustration point. Then I will just personally do some things I think to try to communicate a little bit better and I apologize. It's been, you know, a busy time on council and I appreciate folks' patience and we will make sure to look folks in much more on the NPA process than we may be dead on the, in the stakeholder community process, which I think was more fleshed out. So I think the NPA process will also be more important to look folks in because that is less clear or had wasn't decided in the RPA process as well. So thank you all for being patient. Oh, go ahead, Karis. From my end, I will also, um, ensure that a very important document is not sent out on a Friday so that councilor, uh, hi tower is not put on the spot on Monday. Don't you remember? So I apologize for doing that, but I will remember not to, yeah, yeah, do that on Friday. Great. If there's no more thoughts on this item, um, then happy to turn it to, we've got four action items for Talitha. Thank you all so much for joining us. Really appreciate your patience with us. A 10-person committee is a lot to manage as a consultant and you're all doing it gracefully. So appreciate, appreciate the work on this. Um, the second thing is equitable sharing. Shareen, I know you weren't even planning on being here so few. Yeah, I don't think there was anything left from last meeting other than to provide folks the data that I did provide last week. So I don't think we left anything. I don't have anything on my plate about it other than getting you that data. Great. Do folks have thoughts on it? Go ahead, Stephanie. Um, I, Shareen, I wasn't at the last meeting. So did you email the data? I forwarded, yeah, so, yes, that came from the acting U.S. Attorney John Ophant. I might have his name wrong, but if you can't find it, I can certainly resend it, but it was the data that we had been, that folks had asked for. I'm not sure if we made out of board docs, so we would need to fix that. And then, oh my goodness, all of the, I'm not sure, Shareen copied anyone. And I guess the other thing is, is this executive material? Shareen or is this, it should be on board docs either way, but is this executive material or can we share this with the public? I didn't get any sense that this was something that can't be shared outside of this. And I will forward that to Skyler. And the first, and it looks like Shareen had sent it to the police commission list, the list email list. And so I know that a lot of you had trouble with that. So it might be in your junk folder if you haven't seen it. So let's put a discussion about that on the next agenda, along with the actual document, which can you all post to. We will get more things on board docs for next time, I promise. Okay, so equitable sharing. It seems like we're postponing discussion for that till next time, because most of us didn't review it, which is also true of me. Great. So closing item four and moving on to item five, counsel DeFurl of JD. I think this is no longer a valid item. If this is what I think it is, I think it was about the fact that the council had originally deferred the changing the, oh my gosh, the CSO community surface officer job description approving it to you all. But then it was said that you all had already looked at it and had already approved it along with your memo to raise the cap to 82 that that had been part of one process. And so they asked us to approve the job descriptions as is. So I guess that's just an update from my side on the council. Go ahead, Stephanie. I'd be interested in what other commissioners thought, but I know that we approved raising the cap, but there was no discussion of the job description explicitly. So we didn't approve it. So that's my understanding. I don't know about the others, the other commissioners that's their understanding as well. This is Milo. I would, that would be my understanding as well. Kyle and or John, not sure if you want to speak to that, but happy to have you. I'll speak quickly, but John, I think it's more versed in the language and the creation of the description. I'm charged, excuse me, with working on the issue of the placement of the two. So I'm going to be reaching out to community and meeting with and conferring with different people to talk about where those two additional CSLs will go. So that's my charge. But I think perhaps the chief can talk a little bit more about the actual description itself. Hi. So yeah, there was some confusion on this. The issue was not that the job descriptions were posted to, were shared with the police commission. It's that they were shared with the city council. And there were several instances in which members of the city council said there hadn't been job descriptions shared and there had on January. The memo that went to the city council had job descriptions in them. Those job descriptions were not, however, job descriptions that were shared with the police commission. They were prepared for the city council meeting. And for the memo that went to the city council, I want to say on the Thursday prior to the city council meeting, it may have been the Friday prior to the city council meeting, the job description for the CSO did not change in any way. We've clarified one or two pieces for it now and have had confirmation internally about those changes and are prepared to post it. The CSL job description for the community support liaison is something that needs to be worked on. It's a brand new document. It was created for this role and this position. And I think that Director Dodson has been tasked with working with several members of this committee in order to make sure that it says what people want it to say and describes the role. And then I think there's going to be further discussions about where that role sits. The CSO job description, however, we've had it for more than 15 years. It is what it is. And while that job description wasn't shared with the police commission, a brief of it was it was in the presentation that was shared with the media in December, with the city council in December, with the police commission in January, with the city council in January, and has been out and posted. So while the actual physical job description template used by the city was not shared with the police commission, the idea behind the positions were, and that was part of the presentation given to them. And then the actual job descriptions in the format prepared by the city was shared with the city council prior to their January meeting on the top. Any further discussion? Great. And the last thing is, I think it's my understanding that that there will be two kind of separate CSL descriptions, one for the position that is definitely in Burlington police department, and then the ones that are TBD might be different descriptions might be specialized to some extent for different things, but that those could be separate job descriptions as opposed to as opposed to one if needed. They probably should be considering that the position was designed to fit within the police department and work within the police department. Any other thoughts or discussion on this? Great questions. Great. Then I will close item number five. Thank you both for jumping in for that question. And then the last thing that we have is our next agenda. Oh, I'm so sorry. Our next item, and Kyle, I assume that on our next meeting you can give an update on CNA. Or if you already have one, I feel like we can sneak that into discussion on what the next agenda item is or the next meeting is in terms of what the chances are that we can include them. I would love an update. Yes. So it certainly would be something that's best for next meeting. I began engaging Joy last Monday as soon as it was kind of clear that at least the mayor was clear that I would be the one managing a contract working with Joy. I told her that she, as far as I was concerned, the stakeholders could execute the contract, which was still holding up and waiting for her to connect me with CNA. We back and forth last week. She was sick Thursday, Friday, but she made the contact today. So I'm waiting to hear back from that primary contact at CNA. And then I will move forward with all due haste to get that thing moving. So I have not yet talked to the CNA representative. We were just introduced today. Okay, thank you. And the other update that I have on that for commissioners is I had hoped that we were negotiating because we waited a council meeting to approve it and that negotiation didn't happen. I thought the city attorney's office said that they were going to do it. And I think maybe they thought I was, I'm not sure what happened, but it didn't happen. So I think the contract, I think it's too late to negotiate is basically. So I know that that had been a thing that we had discussed, but I don't think that option is available to us. So the contract amount will be what it is, which I think is fine. But yeah, and then it looks like we will work on getting the contract signed in the next few weeks. So hopefully can also have a kick. Hopefully it'll be a faster process in terms of turnaround for signing this time. Questions and thoughts on that and or the next meeting. Great. Then what I would propose is that we don't wait as long to make. I think part of the problem that we had with Talitha and communication was that we really should have met last week just in terms of timing and it didn't work out because of the city holiday. And so I'm hoping that we can meet not too far into the future for our next meeting for which I might propose either March 10th. This is already getting really far into the future. Or how are folks feeling about the week of March 15th? That is three weeks away. And I think that's probably after the NPA process. Is that okay with people though? Are we okay with Monday again or? I like Mondays. Monday's good. Okay, then let's. I'm sorry. I was just saying it's okay with me. Okay, great. Does Monday not work for anyone? Saying three 15s or? Mm-hmm. That you meant time. I was like no. Okay, then let's tentatively set it for March 15th. And I'll reach out to some of the folks who are out today. And I will try and I apologize again. I know this meeting was a little bit frustrating and that we haven't been as up to date on Talitha as we could have been. And that is on me as chair of this committee and I apologize for not communicating more with people in terms of where we are in the process. I thought that we would have time having met last week and then I did not get around to getting updated myself and sending out a summary. So I will not repeat that mistake. Great. If folks have specific agenda items they want to see, let me know. Other than that, I'll try to make sure that we've got documents posted for the discussion so that folks know what's coming up. And we will plan on meeting on March 15th. With that I would take a motion to open. We just have to do, we have to ask if there's public comment. Oh, I'm so sorry. Yes, thank you. We move public comment to the end. So Mark, if you have a public comment, feel free to raise your hand. Mark does not have a public comment. I believe he is the only member of the public that is on. And again, I apologize for the Zoom link with not- Mariah, you need to stop apologizing. I know when so many things go wrong in one day, it's hard not to. You do not bear all of this, you don't bear it. So please stop apologizing. Don't step into that role. It's a long road. Don't do it. It's fine. It's been a long month. Gladfover is over. So I move to adjourn. I second. Seconded by Commissioner Murphy. Any discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Great, that passes unanimously and we are adjourned at 726. Thank you all. Thanks, Mariah. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good night, everyone. You too.