 I am so very glad you're starting your day with us. This is another episode of The Nonprofit Show, and today we have Yolanda F. Johnson, president and founder of YFJ Consulting, LLC. And Yolanda is going to share with us about your nonprofit embracing diversity, equity, and inclusion. Yolanda, you are a powerhouse. Look at this. I'm so excited and honored to have you here as a guest on The Nonprofit Show. You're the only national broadcast for the nonprofit sector. And your credentials here speak volume. So first, please let me welcome you. And then I would love for you to share with us about your journey, your experience, and how you serve the community. Well, thank you so much, Jared. It's a real pleasure to be here with you today. And yes, I do sleep. I wear many different hats, but I promise I do sleep. I get that question a lot. And, you know, my journey has been such where it's two worlds that have converged. So I have a background in performance, I have a degree in vocal performance, I'm an opera singer, a trained opera singer. And because of my love of the arts and keeping the arts alive and well and moving forward, that's actually how, but the entry point that I had to philanthropy. And so it began there and it's continued ever since. And I'm very blessed and fortunate to still be able to do both and actually bring some of my performance practice into philanthropy. I use performance practice for making the ask with fundraising and even with what I call IED work. We'll talk about that in a moment. But it's been a wonderful journey and I'm really pleased and thrilled to be doing what I'm doing now in this space as well with Woke and Allies and WID and just everything. Well, you're right. I would ask also, when do you sleep? Or how many hours are in your day? Because it sounds like you have a lot, but so glad to have you in our sector. So today, you know, we are talking about this very important topic. I feel like it is a topic that has gotten more and more traction. I am glad that it has and I feel that it's been long overdue. Let's really start with what is DEI, which stands for diversity, equity, inclusion and why do nonprofits need it? Let's start there. Sounds very basic, but I want to make sure we're all in the same day here. And I think that's very wise. It's a very wise thing to do because it's an area that's such a hot and popular area right now that people can make some assumptions about it. So what I really want to do is turn this on its head a little bit. So DEI, diversity, diversity is the metrics and the numbers, the diversity. How diverse are you? Equity, so that's, you know, being on an even plane and inclusion is also sometimes called belonging because there's so many acronyms for it now. I'm discovering new acronyms for it every single day. It's a lovely, lovely thing. People add justice to it. They add belonging to it. So it's whatever works best for you, but the inclusion part is what I find to be most important. It's our top priority if we were to rank the DEI to the point that I actually in my work call it IED. I heard you say that in the beginning and I couldn't wait to hear more about why you've kind of, you know, switched around the acronym. So tell us more. Well, it's really because you can have all the diversity in the world. You can have the numbers and if people don't feel included, it's all for naught. You just have numbers, right? You have a performative sort of action toward equity. But if people feel included first and foremost, then you create that sort of environment that is inclusive, that is welcoming, that makes people feel like they belong, then you're gonna have more diversity because more people are gonna wanna be part of that community, that environment, that organization. You know, you're so right and I have learned so many acronyms, you know, over the course of the last decade and our nonprofit sector is fraught with acronyms. You know, we are acronym soup and one of my favorites, of course, is Jedi, which doesn't, it just seems to roll off my tongue a little bit easier, but I wanted to come back to that inclusion and that belonging because that is such a natural human desire. And that is a big one, I think for all of us. So the fact that you, Yolanda, turn it around a little bit and instead of D-I-I-E-D, is that yours? Yeah. Well, talk to us about why this is important in our sector. I feel like we need to say not our sector, but really at large, right? The whole world, yeah. The world, absolutely. Why is that so important? Well, in the nonprofit sector, we are the people saying that we wanna get the good work done, right? We are here to change the world to create a more just and equitable society. And so what does the nonprofit sector look like whenever we're trying to get that particular good work done? And how much more beautiful is it to have varying perspectives? I also want to offer, you know, to the definition of IED or DEI, it's not just about race. That is something that because of the recent and current racial reckoning that the country is undergoing, this movement that is at the forefront in front of mind, and it very well should be. But when we're talking about the entire sector, it's saying that we want to remember everybody. Whatever your mission is, I'm thinking, but it's still gonna encompass everyone. It's not going to be a non-inclusive mission even if it's focused upon a particular group. So people with disabilities, it's race, it's gender, it's ageism, it's what does your organization look like and how does that make the sector appear, you know, because it's the individual people that change systems. So it's the people that change the organizations, the organizations that change the sector. So it's very, very important because we don't wanna be monolithic. We don't want to not remember everyone and the work that we're trying to do and when we're trying to do good work, that's most important of all. Thank you for bringing that inclusivity of all of diversity, that it's not just race, it is so many other demographics that reside within that D. Talk to us about how we can make our boards to become more diverse, to include all of these different abilities and ages even socioeconomic individuals, how do we do this with our board and where do we start? Well, it has to be intentional. And I think it starts with analysis just to see where are you, meet yourself, where you are at that moment. What's going on right now? Who are the stakeholders around you? What do your constituents look like and are they reflected in both staff and board leadership? And sometimes it's the staff leadership, the executive leadership that will help inform what the board looks like. So that's why that inclusivity and that diversity is so important all the way around. But when it comes to boards, look at the constituency and is that reflected? And I mean, you know, when we're dealing with issues of nominating and governance, you're really gonna start with the people who are already there and around you. So who's there and who needs to be there in order for you to be the organization that you really want to be and to be filling your mission in as inclusive a way as possible. So there are lots of different options for this. There are people that specialize just in finding you board members if you can make that investment. But another way that you can really do it is just to look around your community, look at current stakeholders. You want people involved on the board who care about what you do already. You wanna look at the current board and ask them to consider their networks and how they might be able to reach out to other people to participate who are like-minded to them. You're going to look out into the community and see who's there and who's moving and shaking and aligning with your mission and your work. And you're gonna wanna make sure that you're keeping that open mind and that open network as far as that's concerned. I know that with Woke, women of color and fundraising and philanthropy, seeing that need for more inclusion and diversity on nonprofit boards, we literally put people on boards. So we have a leadership institute called the Radiant Leadership Institute where we train women of color not to fit in but to stand out and shine. And so as part of that, after we train them on effective communication on board leadership, on leadership principles, on self-analysis, we do something with the Trimetrix EQ. It's like a Myers-Briggs for leadership. So what kind of leader are you? And then moving that forward into putting it into practice. So we have a one-year board fellowship where we work with partners and send those women out there to be on boards and to have that real, lived experience. I think we're gonna talk about equity on boards in a minute so I won't go there but a conundrum has come up even with Radiant that exists in the entire sector as well as far as making sure we're equitable on boards. Now, is that in, I'm assuming it's in the New York community. Is this a nationwide? Oh no, it's nationwide. Wolk's an international organization as is Allies in Action. So they're ranging all over the place. We, I mean, that's really the wonderful challenge, you know, finding partners if there are organizations out there who are ever interested and willing to have a board fellow on, please let us know but it's from LA to New York and everywhere in between. I love it. And as you were saying, we start with intentionality. That's really where we start and to assess who, what is our current makeup? And sadly, I have seen too many organizations that do not reflect their constituency base. They do not reflect, you know, their client base, their community base. And that's typically when I come in as a strategic planner and I'm like, look, look, right. You know, we all drive similar cars, our kids are at the same school right now. And so let's start with intentionality and having this conversation, which brings us to what are strategies that you can share with us Yolanda when it comes to engaging and really just starting these conversations within our organizations? Well, what I will say is that this current movement that we're in has lent itself to more voices at that table and in the conversation. And so, you know, everyone had a statement that they put out last year. It seemed was a very noble and popular thing to do. A lot of people established committees and different entities, you know, internally. And now we're coming full circle around that one year mark, a little more than a year now and starting to really look at accountability for what work has actually been done to really create longevity around this. So what you're gonna do is just always try to make sure that there are, I don't really ascribe to safe spaces, but there's the whole concept of the brave space. So creating those spaces where people's voices can be heard and not just doing it, you just mentioned when you're doing strategic planning. So we all abhor that strategic plan that's in a binder on a shelf and it never comes down for implementation, for real implementation. It's up on the shelf. We did it, we checked the box. So this work is not about box checking. It's about really creating spaces where the voices of people of color and professionals of color can be heard. Also in dialogue with white allies and other groups who want to be helpful to that because it's all hands on deck now and everybody has to work together for this to be successful. So if you have an internal entity, that's great. Make sure they're meeting regularly, be accountable. Don't do it just to check a box. What does it really look like? With the women in development, we started with the diversity and inclusion task force. I happened to be the first black president of what we were. And so that was the two year endeavor that culminated right around the time of George Floyd. Well, when that was over, we did that analysis and I said, well, this work must continue was the impetus for starting work because the voices of women of color had reached fever pitch, saying we need a space of our own in the nonprofit sector for the unique experience of being us. But then also how does the work continue in general? And so that task force was transitioned into a committee. That committee's been transitioned into an initiative now to be even more organic. So don't lose hold of it. But always bring it up and always make sure that there's a space to have the conversation. Look at your programming, look at your mission, look at how you're fulfilling it. It's very easy to do knee jerk and just go with the same network and people that we're used to. We all have people of whatever background that are just easy to call or shouldn't email to or whatever gift or skill or their profession that they're bringing to the table. But can you take the time to be intentional and think outside of that box and find a person of color who's equally qualified to find a woman, to find a person with a disability? Can you have closed captioning, whenever you do some of your virtual program? It's little things like that, seemingly little. That means so much to people just to really bring that DEI to the floor. You know, a lot of what you're saying, as you said, even the closed captioning, it doesn't seem like it is rocket science, but it's taking those little steps that really show a genuine and sincere ability and intentionality to connect. I mentioned earlier that it's been about a year and I feel like all of the black block squares on Instagram went up and there were so many individuals that were looking for companies that did not have that square and individuals or companies that did have that square and have been following to see what have they done, right? That accountability piece, what actions have they taken since that? One of the things I really like to advocate for Yolanda and I'm curious if you can help me with some strategies around this as well is to literally earmark dollars for these strategies. So we talk about taking action, but we also talk about the financial resources and investment that we need to put behind this so that we can truly hold ourselves in our actions or words accountable. And I feel like that might be a new budget item for many organizations, but I'd like for it not to be. Well, I mean, there's an argument to be made for incentivizing some of the work as you're helping to train people and help them to understand what's going on, but that's not something I've ever been incredibly comfortable with because I think it's something that should be organic. So making the effort, making the investment is very, very important. I'm not sure how you do resources following the recording of this, but I recently wrote a blog post for Salesforce.com about the five top tips for DEI and fundraising in the nonprofit sector. So it's something to take a look at just how to implement that within the organization, at least the development department. But I agree wholeheartedly that making the investment, so I think it's too prompt. I think that whether or not you are an expert in the space, which many people are not, but they care, always bring it up. I find that to be a fundamental best practice for the nonprofit sector is find those entry points where you can bring it up and its importance and support your employees and your team and the sector as a whole overall by making that investment in training, maybe in providing some incentives for it to help people learn more professional development in that realm. I have a white allies group as well as a group and there are people that will pay for those memberships so that people can get that training and that support really within community and support it internally, put the investment into having those entities, whatever works best for your organization. If it is a committee, if it is a task force, a task force has a definite measurable outcome, which I think that in the shorter term works very well in transition task force to task force to something else down the road in the future. But the investment should be a priority somehow and it doesn't always look the same. It's not a cookie cutter sort of situation, but it should be intentional and it should be the desire of the organization to move it forward that way. Absolutely and thank you for that. And I know that was not a planned question, but it's definitely one that I've been struggling with and one that I've been advocating for in and around my community. I believe this brings us to our last topic of discussion but it's a big one. And from what I hear extremely passionate for you is encouraging more people that are into the nonprofit sector. How do we do this? How can we encourage more individuals to join us in this wonderful sector? Well, it's really loaded, right? And so, you know, I'm also a big proponent and advocate for salary transparency and salary equity. So I think there are a lot of issues around it that we have to deal with to attract people to the sector. And I think that is at the crux of it because there are a couple of things that happened. Last week I did a testimony actually at a hearing on salary transparency to turn that into law in New York City and ultimately New York State. Well, the thing that comes up is sometimes as nonprofit professionals, we have imposter syndrome. We don't understand what we're worth and we think that because we're here to do the good work and to fulfill missions that, you know we can just go ahead and try to do it. It results in some people in some metropolitan areas being only a couple of paychecks away from being in the same boat as the constituents that they serve or amassing huge amounts of personal debt just to be able to survive, to be in the nonprofit sector and those days have got to end. So for people in general and especially people of color underserved groups in the nonprofit sector we have to make sure that we are creating roles that are attractive for people that, you know, liveable that they can still live out their dream and make the world a better place while being amply compensated and having all the opportunities that they deserve creating leadership pipelines both for people of color and for women. Again, people that are underrepresented in the States there's still a glass ceiling. And so we need to do, we have some work to do in the sector to make people want to stay in the first place because we've got the great resignation and I call it the great distraction as well. And then we need to create that pipeline to attract other people to want to be part of this because the whole paradigm has shifted. You know, it's gone are the days when you were a socialite or came from a wealthy family and therefore you were doing charity work and you know that's the whole difference between charity and philanthropy as well. We're playing the long game. We've got degrees in this. We've got lots of experience. And so we need to appreciate and hug and love our employees and create spaces and environments where they can really thrive. And then I think people in general and people of color with more inclusive environments as well will want to be part of this profession. I had shared with you before we open our digital doors that sadly I know a handful, if not more young nonprofit leaders that have left the sector over the last two years and they've gone to for-profit marketing, sales roles and it's heartbreaking for me because I really, really want individuals of all roles and responsibilities to enjoy the sector. One of the things that I like to do Yolanda is whenever there's an opportunity to talk to a business class I like to talk to them about the nonprofit sector because we as a sector get a wrap, right? As if we're not a business. Yep. We are a tax-exempted business. And so I really want individuals to come into the sector, enjoy it so that we don't get burnt out. You mentioned what I strongly stand behind as well is that transparency and pay. And I no longer share job postings if they do not have the salary range in there because that is the process that again it's not rocket science. It is quite simple. And if someone sends me a posting and they're asking me to share it I will kindly write them back and say, I will not share this until you're able to update it with the salary. And that for me is just one tiny step that I feel that I can do to advocate to encourage more people of color in all individuals truly into the sector is to have that equitable practice. Most definitely I co-sign on that entirely. In fact, it is the policy of woke and of wood. Salary transparency is required to post on our job boards which are go-to places for women in the sector. And it's very interesting. The reaction was very interesting. The pushback that we received at first from naughty behavior, like just putting in random characters instead of the actual salary numbers. And then they stopped that. And then we had people who literally someone who said, well, my client can't do that because they're actually having some salary equity issues currently where this person's gonna be making more than some people who have been there for a long time maybe in the program department or something. And they don't wanna cause any bad blood as this person comes on. To which I responded, well, don't hire this person yet go clean your house and take care of that internally before you try to bring someone else on board because you're setting them up for disaster if you don't have equity across the board. So it's really, really important. It's a starting point because you have to decide time is precious, right? If you can even want to go for a position. And for the women telling you also, we know this for sure. Statistics indicate from people in the search profession and in general with non-profit a lot of the times women, if they see a role they won't even go for it. If they don't think they become very perfectionistic with the requirements. And if I don't fulfill every single thing in that job role then I'm not even gonna go for it. Whereas men will go for it. They'll just try it out. It's a very interesting gender difference between how people see through the lens of trying to look for new opportunities. So just things to keep in mind. That is so true. I have been a part of many executive searches and I will say by like true testament I've seen this time and time and time again there are 99% men that are applying versus that 1% female. And it is fascinating to me. Imposter syndrome perhaps, right? You mentioned that earlier. And I know that I myself has struggled without at points in my career. So all of this has been phenomenal Yolanda. We are so blessed to have you in our sector. Thank you for all of the great work that you do. I want to show this slide again because Yolanda F. Johnson is very immersed and very engaged in the sector. I also learned she's a trained as a opera singer. Yeah. I mean, I really don't know when you sleep. There's so much that you do that's fascinating. Thank you for your service. Thank you for sharing your valuable time and expertise. I know we live very far apart when it comes to our nation but we're on the same team working towards the same goal. And you're right. We are in this for the long haul and over the last two years I've referred to multiple pandemics, social injustice being one of them and then definitely a topic that needs more time, more resources and more amazing talent. But thank you for that. Julia Patrick sadly missed a phenomenal conversation but I know that she'll watch the recording and I hope that all of you will. I'm Jarrett Ransom, your nonprofit nerd. Again, so grateful to have these presenting sponsors part of our episode. We're going on 450 episodes soon. Wow. Thank you. And we're always looking for a diverse guest and perspective. So if you're interested, please do reach out to us. We can continue these conversations with amazing thought leaders like Yolanda F. Johnson because of our presenting sponsors. So we're so grateful to have their investment. You have helped me start my week off with such a wonderful tone and opportunity. So thank you for being here with us. Of course. It was my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. And thanks to all of you that joined us. Again, these are recorded. So please do go into our archive. You can go right here to the nonprofitshow.com or American Nonprofit Academy. Watch this recording. Share it with your board. Share it with your leadership. Everyone needs to see and hear some of these practices that, again, they're not rocket science but these small steps help us towards our end goal. So please do check that out. I hope that you'll join us again tomorrow for another episode of the Nonprofit Show. Until then, please be well so you can do well. Thank you so much, Yolanda. I was so glad to have this conversation. Thank you.