 Thanks, Jenny. Just just as I'm going live, tensor guy is asking me to join his heroes of the storm team. Oh, for the for the tournament we're in. Should I say yes without letting him know that I don't know how to play the game properly? It's since the whole thing, just for funsies anyway, it probably wouldn't hurt if you know, but they might want to win. Well, they might. We annihilated our opposition yesterday to the point we almost felt bad, but still fun. I think even if you lose, I don't know, it's entirely up to you. All right. We're having a good about it. I'll think about it. Let's just do an entire episode of Daily Tech News show while I think about OK, all right. Yeah. What better way? Hi, I'm Howard, co-executive producer for the Daily Tech News show. Join me as a co-executive producer for only $10 a month. In addition to the fancy business cards, you will get that special feeling inside, knowing that you are supporting the creation of quality content. Go to patreon.com slash ace detect. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com slash A-C-E-D-T-E-C-T. This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, July 8, 2015. I'm Tom Marin joining me today is Scott Johnson, the godfather of the frog pants network. I come to him some time after his daughter's wedding. Yes, some time indeed. Hello, Tom. Hello, Wednesday, people and hello, world. It's good to be here as always. I love coming on Wednesdays. It's the middle of the week. It divides my life. And it's just like just wedged right where it needs to be. Look, I don't want to have this seem like it's casting aspersions on the other days of the week. But Wednesday is sort of like, you know, the high point in the middle. See, you go up to Wednesday. It's the hump day, right? You're up to the help. Take that, Veronica and Justin, Robert Young and whoever else. It's also the best day on the morning stream, I have to say. Oh, thank you. Yeah, because of your guests. Because you're there, yeah. Oh, I meant Nicole Speck, but I'm there too. It's true. Yeah, it just happened to be there as an arrow. Let's let's do some headlines. Microsoft CEO Sachin Adele sent an email to employees announcing plans to restructure the company's phone hardware business up to 7,800 positions, primarily in the phone business will be eliminated. The company will record an impairment charge for Q4 2015 of approximately 7.6 billion dollars related to the acquisition of the Nokia devices and services business. That's in addition to a restructuring charge of approximately seven hundred fifty to eight hundred fifty million. So you're getting close to eight billion dollars writing down there. Microsoft spent seven point two billion to acquire devices and services from Nokia. Microsoft will continue to make phones. They're going to make Lumia phones narrowly focused on business, low end and flagship lines. And Scott and I are going to we're going to comb over this a little more in the discussion section today. For sure. And I'm very curious about the word about a ballmer joke, even though it turned out to be impairment charge. I want to get more into what that means and why it's so expensive. Anyway, the Wall Street Journal says or sources at the Wall Street Journal tell them that Apple is preparing its suppliers to produce a record breaking eighty five and ninety million of its two new models of the iPhone for the years over, according to the Business Insider India. Last year, Apple ordered seventy and eighty million units, respectively in the first run of its iPhone six and six plus. The next iPhone is expected to come with a force touch screen similar similar to the one you see in the Apple Watch. A few other innovations have been rumored here and there, but primarily the same device. That's a lot of phones, Tom. Yeah, keep this number in mind when we start talking about Microsoft later on because Apple kind of if this is true, the Wall Street Journal sources are usually pretty good. Apple sort of bucking the trend in smartphone sales and anticipated smartphone sales. Yeah. We've been reporting on Google's struggle to comply with Europe's right to be forgotten rules. I guess the struggle is like how to properly report them, how to how to let people know which links get removed. And now the next web reports the Consumer Watchdog in the United States is making sure the US FTC doesn't forget US people's right to be forgotten. I forget what we were talking about now. Oh, right. Consumer Watchdog wants the Federal Trade Commission to investigate why Google has not extended the right to be forgotten to US users. Last year, FTC chairwoman Edith Ramirez told Time magazine, quote, an expansive right to be forgotten is not something that's likely to pass constitutional muster here in the United States. Do you think it's again? Are we just forget? Yeah, that don't forget. See what I did that right to be forgotten is not removing things that are libel. They're not removing things that are illegal. They're removing things that are facts, but that people feel should be forgotten. I got busted in 1992, let's say. And so when you do a search on my name, these felony charges come up. I want those to be removed from Google search engine, not removed from the web so that people forget that I was charged with that felony. Yeah, it's such a touchy subject. I feel like the minute you bring it up, at least over here, and maybe I'm wrong about this, but I feel like culturally, we're going culturally, we're going to rebel against an idea of having something like this removed. It's almost like selective censorship, even though it's affecting, impacting potentially an individual who may or may not feel that they have the right to have that thing removed, but there's just something about it that feels anti, I hate to say anti-American, but it feels a little anti-American. Well, I don't know if it's anti-American or not. I mean, I think you have a solid reason for saying that. On the other hand, it doesn't sound like the USFTC is welcoming of this push. I get where consumers, the consumer watchdog is coming from the point of view of, hey, you know what, you shouldn't have people thinking things about you that are old and without a search engine, people wouldn't know about this embarrassing thing that happened to you in the past. And if it's irrelevant, if it's no longer should have any bearing on you, then then you should have the right to make a search engine get rid of it. That's what they're saying. What the USFTC's Edith Ramirez seems to be saying is the Constitution says that you get to say whatever you want up into certain limits like obscenity and libel. And we don't see the right to be forgotten applying to those sorts of things. I guess it's just a weird practicality of it. If I do a search for Scott Johnson and let's say I've done something terrible. I don't know, burn down a building. I've never done that, folks. But if I had, and I really wanted that to be in my past, it's been expunged or I've been, you know, I've done my time or whatever. And I want that off a search engine. There's very small difference between searching Google for Scott Johnson cartoonist and podcaster versus Scott Johnson cartoonist and podcaster. And then the word fire at the end. How do they know what to block? Do I have some artwork with fires in it? Have I talked about, do I have episodes of the podcast where I mentioned Hellfire Peninsula and, and what you do is you say as the person like, Hey, there's these links to these old Utah journal articles about arson and me, I want those removed from any search results where people search for Scott Johnson. That makes sense. Oh, by the way, arson and me was my favorite 70s sitcom. Uh, right there next to 10 speed into a brown shoe favorite ever. Remember back in March when live streaming app, mirror cat was awesome. And everybody wanted to sit in, uh, sit at lunch with you and watch you do things in your life. And then periscope came along. Those big jerks and mirror cat was like, where'd everybody go? It really did feel like overnight. That was a very strange transition. Uh, today, mirror cat rolled out major updates, including the ability to sign up through Facebook. You're sort of standard. You want to make a new account. You want to sign in through Facebook sort of thing. A new feature called cameo that lets you hand over your stream to a viewer for 60 seconds at a time and a way to save streams to the mirror cat library, AKA the cloud instead of your phone. So, uh, mirror cat, mirror cat down a little bit, not out. They want, uh, they want a feet pronunciation of mirror caught mirror caught, uh, you know, first of all, if they'd had the mirror cat cloud library at launch, they probably would be in better position, uh, to fight off periscope. Cause that was one of the things people said they preferred periscope for is you could watch a stream later. A mirror cat's whole shtick was they were being like, like Snapchat, right? Like, ah, the stream is gone. Once you're done, it's a ephemeral. And that was kind of cool for some people, but apparently that was a disadvantage when they went head to head, but this 60 second thing is really interesting to me. I would totally see like, we used to walk around dragon con, right? And, and, and do a live stream from there. I could absolutely see something like that where you're like, okay, I'm going to hand it over to, uh, like Scott, Scott's back in Utah. Boom, Scott. And then you say a few things and I take it back and you know, like it adds a level of interactivity here that I think is pretty interesting. Yeah. The only downside is it's just up to periscope to, I feel like periscopes in this position where they can just sort of pick and choose features either that they're working on or they see mirror cat do and then integrate themselves and try to stay on top of it because they definitely do seem to have more of the mind share. But this, this concept that this stuff should be viewed later should have been a thing from day one. I understand trying to say, well, we're capturing lightning in a bottle. We missed it too bad, but I can't tell you how many times I've hopped online, seen one of my friends 20 minutes ago say I'm going live on mirror cat or on periscope and I'll need to find out that I missed the freaking thing. So, and on periscope, you can still go back or watch it. Miracle. You couldn't until until now in response to leaked internal documents from the hacking team. Adobe has issued a critical vulnerability alert regarding flash according to the next web security hole which could allow attackers to take control of the system exists in Windows, Mac and Linux. Sorry, fanboys, you don't get to brag about your particular platform on this one. Adobe expects to release an update to fix the problem later today until then, many security researchers including the next web, which is not a security researcher, but the next web recommends disabling flash in web browsers or enabling flash to run only when clicked. If you want to I saw a lot of hubbub and stink on Twitter about this. And I friends who are loving this because they think that anytime this happens, anytime flash has big vulnerability is one step closer to never having to have flash again. Oh, hey, there's the platform that fanboys can rally behind the not flash platform. Yeah, the ones that don't want flash, which seems to include almost everyone at this point. It includes me. I'll be friendly. There you go. The Verge reports that Logitech is dropping the tech. Whoa, sort of. Everyone's changing their logos and names lately. It's weird. Company's introducing a new brand called Logie or Lodgy. I prefer Logie. The new brand will be used for future-facing stuff, unquote, especially in the Internet of Things categories. The full Logitech brand will continue to stick around from our established legacy products. You can expect that, I think, on keyboards and mice and the stuff we kind of know them for. One commenter in our technical story really nailed the most important question, though. Hard G or Soft G? And I was thinking Logie or Lodgy, but now Logie. Yeah, I wonder if they focus-grouped that. Doesn't sound like it to me. I mean, I don't know. It's a little Logie. It's a little Logie or, hey, I hawk the Logie in the parking lot or various other things. Those light sensors that I put in, kind of Logie. Laggy is how you might say it. Either way, we don't want laggy. Yeah, they hired a Nokia brand manager away. And this is his first big project for Logitech. And I'll be honest, the bigger part of this story is what the Verge was saying about how they're going to think of a product from start to finish when they design it, like the packaging and the way it looks. And if that ends up being a better-looking stuff from Logitech, which isn't badly designed, but it's certainly not something you get and go, wow, that Logitech Harmony Remote is sure pretty. Then this could end up making some nice-looking stuff. And I know that's important to some people. All I care about personally is that it works. Yeah, and one of the advantages of Logitech is that they do work. They have good quality stuff in terms of functionality. It's not always the prettiest stuff, but I only buy Logitech mice, for example, for PCs Max, I just want Logitech mice. And I've done that for years. The only thing that's weird about that or about this is that even if it's Logie or Logie or Logie, whatever it is, it presumes you already think of Logitech and you're looking at this as the advanced brand. It's like knowing Toyota and then knowing that they also make Lexus. It's kind of like that. I don't know. Actually, I would dispute that. I think this is an attempt for them to say, we're gonna make Internet of Things products, products for the smart home, and we don't want people thinking about tech because he said in some of these stories, tech is the past. I think it's going for the average consumer who doesn't know Logitech, who doesn't know computers, and they just see a cute little name like Logie for their home automation stuff. Hmm. Or they see a Logie detector that you buy from here. And they're just like, I'll buy the rapid one, not the Logie one. Thanks. United Airlines grounded flights in the US for two hours this morning after a network outage. The Wall Street Journal reported a router malfunction in the reservation system preventing verified passenger lists from being created, which is something you have to have before you can take off, as well as preventing passengers from checking in many cases. Later on Wednesday, as in gadget reports, the New York Stock Exchange halted trading for more than three hours due to a technical issue. New York Stock Exchange Twitter account said it was not the result of a cyber breach. This is something that the scientists call coincidence. I was gonna say you assured me this morning on the morning show where you are a guest on Wednesdays. You assured me that this was nothing more than just simple coincidence. Did I assure you or did I say I kind of think this? I'm starting to think Chemtrails and Illuminati and all those things. Hi, I think you're on something. I don't think you wanna say the word Illuminati more than twice, though. No, or it'll turn into Candy Man and shoot these out of its mouth. I know what this is about. In gadget reports, the Swiss Post, I like that name, will begin, it makes me wanna have breakfast for some reason, will begin testing the commercial use of logistics drones to deliver packages this month. Test of MatterNet drones. Test of MatterNet, there you go. We'll focus on special cases like lab samples and emergency supplies. It's estimated to be five years before it becomes a common practice. Oh, that's pretty interesting. Commercial use of- Oh, Switzerland, yes. They're using MatterNet drones. MatterNet has experience, we've mentioned this before on the show, delivering supplies by drones in Haiti during the earthquake. Makes perfect sense. Like what better thing to have it used for than a situation where you have trouble getting other kinds of craft in there. So it's great. And time sensitive stuff like lab samples for tests. Yes, the Swiss leading the way in postal delivery by drone. Yeah, go Swiss. And little Marsha Marsha in your hot cocoa. Reuters reports the Delhi High Court in India has lifted the ban on Uber in New Delhi. The city had rejected Uber's license application last month. The court said the state government can impose strict conditions, but the court did not favor a complete ban. So we talked about this last Wednesday and the story kind of fell away from me in terms of keeping kind of track of what was going on. But the original ban was due to what? Was that ever kind of sort of settled? Why, what was the consensus as to why they banned it in the first place? Oh, there was, yeah, that was very clear. They said you had a rape happen in one of your Uber cars. We don't think your application is up to snuff. We don't think you're providing proper assurances. So we're gonna shut you down and then Uber continued to operate. And so they started to seize Uber property, Uber cars and that sort of thing. And another company went before the Delhi High Court and now you're forcing me to put this question to reopen this and find out what actually happened here. Because I don't remember the name of the company, but the Delhi High Court said it was another company in Delhi that went before the court and got them to basically reverse the decision. And Uber said, hey, well, if you'll do it for them, you'll do it for us. And the government did. And they did. But as far as repercussions, I haven't heard anything anywhere in any other territories, especially the states where this seemed to bleed over and say, hey, wait a minute, what about here? The company was Ola. They want a similar reprieve after a rejection of a license application. Gotcha. What figure prints has done for Warcraft and Minecraft? Or did I should say? Amazon is now doing for SMITE, Primal Carnage and Infinity Blade. We'll sound familiar to you with our video games. The next web reports Amazon now uses Sandboxer to let you customize one of 35 characters from these games, have it printed and delivered for $30 to $90 depending on size. So I still have, not handy or I'd show it, but I still have a figure prints version of my World of Warcraft orc. It was created right around the beginning of the third expansion for the game or second expansion, technically. And at the time we were blown away, 3D printing had not yet quite entered the stratosphere in terms of it being a common thing that you and I could go by hardware for and print out things at home with. I wonder how this stuff does now, given the fact that you can do a lot of this stuff yourself, not license necessarily, but you can sometimes make your own things. It'd be interesting to see this. And the way it looks like it operates, and maybe I'm misinterpreting this, you have to go in and re-customize the character. You can't just tap into the character you've been playing. Right. It's not the same as when Warcraft gave access, their database access to figure prints and said, here you go guys, pull whatever data's happening. And the way that worked is if I wanted to have my character, the day I ordered him, I got him in the clothes and gear and stuff he was in that day, color and everything. And that's what I ended up getting printed. It sounds like this gives you a lot more options. Also a lot less expensive. I want to say it was like $130 or $40 for the figure print. So like anything good, I guess it comes down in price. But I'd be very curious to see how the actual quality looks like when they get it and the resolution and all that. So I'm good on them. Some of the stories you've heard already were submitted on our subreddit, dailytechnewshow.reddit.com. That helps us figure out, especially on a day like today, where tech memes got a whole different slate of stories than Google News, than any other outlet out there, except for Microsoft. That's the one that everybody was reporting on. So we look at dailytechnewshow.reddit to kind of get an idea of what you think is important. Go in there and do some voting. Star Fury's Ada Pass Along Business Insiders article on a Boeing patent for a laser and nuclear-driven airplane engine. Boeing engineers Robert Boudica, James Hertzberg and Frank Chandler filed the patent, which shows an engine firing lasers at a radioactive material like deuterium or tritium. The resulting fusion reaction, a minor explosion creates hydrogen or helium as exhaust that then exits the back of the engine to create thrust. But we're not done there. Neutrons from that reaction also heat the walls, which just happened to be coated with uranium-238, which heats up water on the outside or some kind of coolant on the outside which then is used to power a turbine that provides electricity to the lasers that then shoot at the deuterium and start a new fusion reaction. Holy crap, that sounds great. A nuclear explosion made by lasers powers the engine, which also powers the lasers. There's nothing scary about it, anything you just said? Lasers, explosions, nukes, it's fine. It's actually not scary. It's a very well-contained. And it's fusion, not fission. If everybody's thinking, oh, nuclear bomb in an engine, no, it's not like that. That's pretty darn cool. Nobody's pushing cold fusion anymore, folks. Let that work. It's not cold fusion, it's hot fusion. Hot fusion, baby. I'm not gonna say this guy's name right. Habachuka, what, how would you say this? Her name. Sorry. Zabituela Condulce. Oh my gosh, dude. That's amazing. That's as close as I can get anyway. Pointed us to the Guardian report that a Manhattan judge has ordered Time Warner Cable to play our Selly King $229,500 for placing 153 robo-calls to her cell phone in less than a year. The messages were meant for Louise Perez, who had once held the same phone number. King called Time Warner to make clear that she was not Perez, and this was to no avail. Time Warner even made 74 calls after King filed her lawsuit in March. Go get it. Customer service is a wreck for these companies. Like, this is what happens in the short term, you can say, oh, well, really, we wanna use customer service to drive sales. So let's focus on that. And it works for years until the stories start to build up, build up, build up. And then they often change their policies and then I suppose we get excited about that and then the cycle repeats itself, so that's fine. And that is a look at the headlines. Someone's telling me Abituela Condulce is a he, not a her. So I'm wrong about that, my apologies. I will wait until I get confirmation before I ever make that kind of determination again. Hey, Microsoft, writing off $8 billion. Well, they're writing off $7.6 billion and then they're taking a $750 billion charge. Here's the thing, Scott, this is both good news and bad news for Microsoft. Wanna know why? Yes, I'm dying to know why. Why is it good? Because the bad know I can see, what's the good? Yeah, the good news, I think, is that Sachin Adela, who was never a fan of this acquisition, is finally putting it behind him. It's costly, no doubt. But he's saying, I have a vision for Microsoft. It involves making some devices, like a Surface tablet, like an Xbox. It does not involve being a phone making company. And that's what they got when they bought the Nokia handset division. So what he's saying is, we're gonna make a flagship phone because we wanna show Windows phone in its best environment. We're gonna make a business phone because we've got tons of enterprise customers and we can throw those phones in as part of those enterprise deals when they're using Microsoft Azure and all our other enterprise stuff. And we can focus on security and enterprise management with those phones and it makes perfect sense to do that. And we're gonna make a low-end phone because Africa, parts of India, Southeast Asia still, up for grabs, totally an open market that everybody's rushing into. We'd be stupid not to continue to try to roll out into those markets. But the idea in all three cases is to provide a template for other people to use Windows to make our phones because what not, Sachin Adela, he doesn't ever come out and say this, but he's focusing on the fact that the future of revenue for these companies is in services. And you only make devices and operating systems in so far as it helps you sell your services. And to that end, Gartner has come out with a report earlier this week saying that PC shipments are gonna fall. No big surprise there. Tablet sales are gonna fall. No big surprise there. But they're also saying mobile phones sales are gonna slow. They're still gonna rise 3.3%, but we're starting to see the mobile phone device market mature. And that's not a place that Microsoft wants to be. They wanna be in the growth market, not the mature market. Well, and they also seem to, it seems to support some other things we've seen. It's like a lot of talk about phones just generally not being as popular, like you said, where there's just a slowdown in the market and part of that is you have companies like Samsung who are seeing a bit of a dip this year. At least they're reporting that. Probably partially because they have so much choice out there. Now, we want choice. Everybody likes choice. We all want multiple things, but like the Nokia acquisition, they weren't just acquiring the name. They weren't just acquiring a few bits of technology or ways to build. In fact, they didn't acquire the name. That's true, they didn't. But when they made that deal, they acquired a huge line of phones, everything from cheap little flip and brick phones all the way up to what they built with Lumia's and so on. And what you've done there is you've created a potential for a giant market to come and say, well, yes, we want everything from that little entry level $49 or free with a contract phone all the way up to your flagship with a huge camera and all that. And what's happened in my opinion is that there aren't enough consumers who want to upgrade as frequently as they used to. And so that whole line just kind of ends up being kind of idle and you have a big, heavy manufacturing base that doesn't really have the kind of customers you want. And Samsung's finding this. Some of the bigger Android manufacturers are running into this. The only company that seems to, at least for now, not be running into this as much is Apple at least based on their forecast for new hardware and so on. And that's interesting because in the past plenty of criticism from myself included in Apple's direction saying, well, man, you just really have the one phone. This time, yeah, you had two sizes. So I guess you are shaking things up a little bit for the most part, if you don't count the C and some of those other things you have basically the year after year, flagship, then an S, flagship, then an S. And now I'm starting to wonder if that was always the plan, if there wasn't some brilliantly highly paid Harvard graduate mathematician, economist guy who knew that you needed to have less choice because in the future it was gonna be, there would be so much saturation. It was gonna be way more incremental and less revolutionary and therefore we will have two products to sell, we'll sell out of them and have a hard time keeping them in stock and that's a way to keep making sure we're hitting our projections. By the way, that doesn't make sense what you just said. Having a hard time keeping them in stock means you're not gonna hit the projections because you didn't make enough of them. That's a good point. So that part I take back, but you know what I mean, like it's- I do, I do. And it was a strategy, right? Apple's always had that strategy. Make just a few of things and gamble that you've made them right and that people will double down on them and that has worked. Here's the thing that I mean, not to get off in an Apple tangent here though, they are ahead of the game right now. Like you say, HTC even Xiaomi is slowing down but they are not going to stay ahead of that game for a long because that market is maturing, right? And they're on top of a maturing market. That's why they need to be able to have a successful watch, have a successful new platform on television of some sort, have other types of products coming out. And that's what Microsoft is doing here, saying, hey, let's pull back from putting all our eggs in the handset basket. Cause that's not a great basket to be in right now. There is a downside to this though. And that downside is they have gutted what was the heart of a proud Nokia. The next web points out that 2,300 people work in the Nokia plant that Microsoft acquired in Salo Finland. They laid off 1,000 people in 2012 in a small town and now they're about to lay off a bunch more because these people all work in the phone business. They're a bunch of those 7,800 jobs are going to come out of Salo Finland. You're really, I don't know if it's too harsh to say ruining a town in that case. Well, it's the classic definition of a factory town. It's the one thing in town that employs just about everybody, it's a small place. And when that goes away, so do most of the jobs. And then a lot of other jobs that were supported by those people making money at that job, be it restaurants or service oriented businesses or whatever. So it has this trickle down effect. Everybody's seen it happen. It happens in cities and countries all over the world all the time. But it is interesting to only see strategy from Sacha Nadella and not a lot of talk. And I don't know what they would say. I mean, it's almost like a thing. I mean, it is memo he did say, we take this seriously. We know it's bad for people losing their jobs, essentially. He acknowledges that. It's not like he ignores it. Sure. No, he doesn't exactly ignore it. But it is, someone just say, well, these are the stakes. This is what business is. But it is easy to, if you're not there on the ground or you're not seeing it from that perspective, it's easy to miss how what maybe look like a huge injection of money and sort of corporate leadership or whatever it may have looked like when they made this acquisition doesn't look like that anymore. And it's easy to call something a quote unquote impairment charge. But what it really is is a complete bail out of a failed idea, which is sad for people who rely on this for their livelihood and now we're going to have to figure something out. And I think what probably irks a lot of people is that what looks like to an outsider happened is Steve Ballmer decided he wanted to own a handset business. So he got his buddy, Steve and Elop, to leave Microsoft and become the CEO of Nokia to force a sale to Microsoft so that Steve Ballmer could have the handset division of Nokia. Elop went to Nokia, wrote a memo about how Nokia was on fire, it was an oil platform on fire, scared them into selling off the handset business to Microsoft and then went to Microsoft and now has retired with a golden parachute. Steve and Elop comes out smelling great. Steve Ballmer got himself a basketball team. The poor people of Salo Finland, they don't get all that. Sure, and that's the part I hope people pay attention to and at the same time, again, businesses do this and it's the age old thing and it sucks and maybe it's part of doing business as a giant corporation with this kind of power or whatever but I feel like hopefully the idea here is this will lead to a Microsoft who is less in a position to create this much disruption with a flick of the wrist that these kinds of decisions will be based more on long-term goals, bigger plans, not, I mean, I'm sure Ballmer wasn't just like, oh, I should do this crazy thing. I'm sure it was more thinking than that. He believed it was the right thing. He believed it was the right thing, exactly. But his reputation of being a little brash and out there and just kind of going for it kind of precedes him. So it's easy to want to assign more blame to him but all of that being said, it would be really nice if Microsoft saw this as, we don't want to do that again, guys and this business just tightened up. They cleaned it up, they have real vision for what the future of this stuff should be. They all learned from the PC era, which seems like that's what everyone's doing again is relearning what happened with the PC era and applying it to mobile and saying, wow, it's slowing down just like the PC era. I wonder if one day it'll be about services and not so much the hardware. It's the kind of same exact routine. They seem like that's what they're trying to do and if that's true, then maybe less towns like Salo Finland will have to deal with impacts like this. And Nokia will be able to start making handsets again soon. It doesn't sound like because they sold all their factories that they'll be making them themselves, they'll be licensing designs, but you will start to see Nokia phones again. And I think that's the sad part is that you go through all of this wasted money, wasted time, wasted jobs in order for nothing to change. My point here isn't to say this or that it should be prevented, but that people in positions like Steve Ballmer and Sachin Adela's decisions have big impacts sometime. When they make mistakes, those mistakes have big impacts. Yeah, and sometimes that hubris at the time of making this decision, and I say that without a better term for it, but you know you've got the resources and the money and you're like, we need to disrupt this market and we need to just buy a giant phone maker. And this is how we're gonna do it. We're gonna force our way into there instead of having to lag behind and figure out a way to get back to the top. We're gonna force our way into the top. That's probably a viable solution in lots of cases, lots of scenarios. And this one just happened to not work out for various reasons. So it's, you know, could've, should've, would've, 2020 and all that. But in the end, I hope something gets learned, I suppose. And it's a fair point, Ian, sort of brings this up in the chat room that the handset division of Nokia might have been closing these plants, might have been laying these people off if it hadn't been sold to Microsoft. Yeah, there may have been a much more seismic loss of jobs, who knows? I mean, that's the problem with this stuff. We could, people get analyzed it left and right, but I don't know. The situation we're in, I just, I'm taking the more positive road, which is this gives Microsoft a chance to do right by new decisions, better future planning, smarter stuff. And hopefully that means healthier Microsoft and a healthier, you know, business ecosystem around them. All right, let's perk things up with our pick of the day from Daniel, who says, I feel like this community might have an affinity for Firefly or Serenity as I do. And I recently read a piece on I09 reviewing Sci-Fi's new show, Killjoys, calling it the space opera we've been waiting for since Firefly. Daniel says, after watching the first two episodes, I can't disagree with the review's premise. The irreverent humor, the ability of the leads to play off each other, as well as off of one off characters is Mal-Zoe-esque. Hope it is killed after one season only to have a killer movie and cult following for years or maybe that it gets renewed. So it says Daniel. But you know, a few people have been telling me to watch Killjoys and I've heard mixed reviews about it. But you know, I love having our picks of the day from all different fields. The idea of the pick here is that we can expose you to things that you wouldn't otherwise hear of from the community and from ourselves. So this might be a reason for me to go watch Killjoys. And I'm we're with you, Daniel. Like just last night, my wife, I was reading something and she's been rewatching Firefly. She's done this like four or five times, like we all do. And I've seen that movie 18 times, which is the most I've ever seen a movie except for maybe Empire Strikes Back. So yes, you have fans here on DTNS, died in the wool brown coats, we're ready for more. She, the final episode airs, I'm not really paying attention so I don't even know where she is, but I'm reading my book and I get a punch in my leg, just right in my leg. And I turn around and I go, what's the matter? And she says, I hate that this was all we got. And if Killjoys can just provide a tiny bit of that, I suppose sign me up. I haven't heard a thing about it. So this is all good news to me regardless, this email. Yeah, I'm gonna check this out. Thank you, Daniel. Send your picks to feedback at dailytechnewshow.com and you can find my picks at dailytechnewshow.com slash picks. Our messages of the day come from Will from Maidenhead having just spent a week teaching my oldest niece and nephew how to code. I can think of two important reasons why all children should be taught the basics of programming. This is in response to Patrick Beja saying, he thinks that it's important for children to be able to learn how to code, but he thinks it's overemphasized sometimes. Will says, if a person does not know how to program, then they can only use a computer for tasks that others have already thought of. Learning to code is an excellent way of teaching problem solving skills. The issues that Patrick mentioned are certainly important, but I would argue that a child's basic computer literacy is not complete without an awareness of coding fundamentals. Very interesting take on that. I kind of agree. Like right now, my kids are a little older now, Nick's 15, but he's trying to build his own video game and he's doing it by learning the fundamentals of how to work with 3D models in Maya and then bring those into an engine like Unreal or he's playing a little bit with the other one I forgot the name of, Unity, Unity 5. And now he's stuck with that, oh no, I need to make these things work together and not all the pre-made scripts are gonna do it for him. So he's having to really put his head down and learn this stuff and I'll tell you, it does, I can say from first hand experience, it does wonders for teaching him concepts about logic that I wasn't gonna be able to give to him in any other way. And it's also something he really loves to do. He's excited about the outcome, so it's not a thing I have to force him to learn and do. So I would agree with this person, coding fundamentals, I mean, you can define that any way you want, but this ability to get your head around what is the logic behind all of this? How are these behaviors produced? I think that stuff's invaluable, regardless of what field they go into or what they wanna do later. Yeah, and as Patrick said yesterday, he doesn't think that people shouldn't be taught how to code. He thinks it's more important to teach him about issues around technology use like privacy and I agree with him there, I think that is important as well. I think that coding is a basic skill and that you should be introduced to it to see if you like it. And this is what I saw in yesterday's show, I'm just kind of repeating myself, but the way you're taught basic mathematics, basic grammar, basic science, coding is either in your science or your math curriculum as one of those things that you should be introduced into how it works, I think. And it helps you to understand more what those greater technology issues are if you understand how that stuff works. I agree completely and you're starting to see this now with schools and junior high as high schools and college entry level courses. So I think we're kind of heading that way anyway, but it's good to see people are generally agreeing with that idea. We have another Daniel and because I didn't actually copy their email addresses in could be the same Daniel at our pick. I don't know. This Daniel identifies himself though as from always warily weathering the weather North Carolina and said on Monday showed Jonathan wrote in expressing concern about losing the benefits of manual driving. My thought is that it will not be all or nothing whenever self-driving cars hit critical mass. I see roads being split into manual lanes and self-driving lanes, similar to how we have HOV lanes now, except for self-driving vehicles, making it SDV lane, I guess. And if self-driving cars had their own possibly walled off dedicated lanes, this would reduce the risk of them having to deal with an unknown variable of the manual driver, at least on the highways that could work that way, maybe not in town, making it safer for both types of cars. In short, I don't see manual driving ever being replaced after all, cars didn't replace bicycles and there are even dedicated bike lanes, Daniel. Well, that's cool. The only thing that keeps coming up in my head about all of this, even if it's all self-driving or a transition thing where we're kind of doing half and half for a while, is how are we separating them? Like, assuming that we wanted to be smart about reusing the existing infrastructure and not spend a bunch of money on new materials and new highways and byways, you're gonna put a big wall between them because I don't need Jimmy John had too much bear at lunch to swerve over into my automated car lane anytime he feels like it. Well, have you ever seen the HOV lanes that have the concrete, temporary concrete barriers on the lane mark? Yeah, we have those. Yeah, yeah. So it'd be like that. Okay, yeah, I mean, I guess if they can work that out, the trick would be like, do they have the same off-ramps? Is it just an extra lane on the off-ramp? Like, I don't have a lot of questions about the legit. I think Daniel nails the HOV part of this because some HOV lanes here in LA have their own off-ramps. Others just have a way for you to merge in. And I'm with Daniel on this. Like, there's a blend there. Obviously not everything can be changed. Like you say, some off-ramps, but need to be shared. Street driving is never gonna be separable, I don't think. However, when he says, I don't see manual driving ever being replaced. Depends on what you mean by that. Daniel, I start to diverge from you. I think we get to a point where all of driving that we consider today becomes self-driving at some point. Maybe it's 50 years from now, right? Maybe it's longer, I don't know. But I think manual driving becomes limited to maybe little short-range vehicles, golf cart type vehicles in certain situations. I think once if self-driving cars prove to be practical and safe, then I don't see us leaving manual driving as an option forever. Well, some of sad or suggested that if you don't make it so that in rural areas or that that would be an area where people would be demanding, I need to have my truck and I gotta drive it myself and I gotta fill it with, hey, and do what I want with it. Yeah, and I think there will be cases like that. Yeah, absolutely. That's why I said depends on what he means by ever. Maybe I could- There was a long time, Tom. It's a long, long time. It sure is. And we're not gonna do this show forever, thank goodness. We're gonna end it now. Scott Johnson can be found on the Twitters at twitter.com slash Scott Johnson. He's myextralife.com and in fact, he's got a book. Mm, yeah, it's in the middle of being kick started if I'm a little surprised how quick it went, but if you would like to help out with stretch goals and you're interested at all in my 15 years of comics that I've created for that site over the last 15 years, you can go to myextralife.com slash book and support it. There's some great levels on there that you can get into, get a copy of the book and support this thing. I've been trying to get out the door forever. We're finally doing it. And- When do I get the book? You get it soon, man. Soon. I'm gonna want it soon. I got late. I am really like literally seriously excited. It's gonna be good. And I'm really proud of it. And I'm so thankful for the support. And I know there's a ton of people who listen to DTNS who have already supported it. So just huge thanks for me for doing that. And I promise to make something super cool for everybody, so. And thanks to all of the folks who support our show, dailytechnewshow.com slash support. Your support makes it possible to have folks like Scott on the show to be able to bring in guests to just continue to have Jenny and Roger and myself work on the show every day. We could not do it without you. We thank you so much, especially to the folks who give to us regularly on Patreon and PayPal. But of course, we know that not everybody can do that. So if you're just giving us a dollar or two when you can or just telling people about the show, that's great too. Another way to support the show is through the store at dailytechnewshow.com slash store. And we have a new DTNS shirt themed for Nerdtacular designed by Jenny, polished by Sebgans. And you can pick it up at Nerdtacular if you're going. Use the code two sides and you don't have to pay for shipping. It just means that when you go to Nerdtacular you can pick it up there. So go to dailytechnewshow.com slash store. Look at the new DTNS Nerdtacular shirt. It's got Nerdtacular on the back with all of our names popped in there. And my name is on there. It's in the logo because my name's always in the logo. Use that code two sides. No charge for shipping if you pick it up at Nerdtacular. Our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. You can give us a call 51259 daily. Listen to the show live Monday through Friday at 4.30 p.m. Eastern on alphagigradio.com and visit our website dailytechnewshow.com. We even have an unofficial video version at diamondclub.tv. We'll be back tomorrow with Justin Robert Young as our guest. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Club, I hope you have enjoyed this program. Great show. What should we call that thing? I agree. No, don't call it I agree. I agree is the name of the show. Done. Done. Selected. You know, selected. Scott Johnson, cartoonist and podcaster, has not burned down a building. Yet. That we know of. Americans. Oh, crap. Oh, no. No, no, no. It's not that serious. I accidentally used the FSL template in Audio Hijack. All that means is that the WAV file got put in the FSL folder. So it's all good. Everything's fine. Reasonable thing to not. Nothing to see here. Meerkat is on life number two, which I like. Get it? A lot. Don't you forget about me. Americans also want to be forgotten. Never forget, unless I say so. Unless I say so. Remember, wait, no. Forget the Alamo. Yeah, we wanted forgotten. Forget about it, which I really like. Wow, lots of forgets. Let's see. They come later. These are always in time order. Oh, yeah, we need some voting live folks. If you're listening live, go to showbot.tv. Give us your votes. I'm only a third of the way through level-aiding. Who forgets the forgotten? I like that. Good. Not so flashy, eh? Hocking up a logie. Or a logie, or. I had not thought about it. Hocking a logie. You said that, Scott. They what? I had not thought about logie until you said it. Oh, that's the first thing I thought of. I thought about writing it in to the thing. And then I was like, you know what? They're going to do it. It'll just come to them. And I just wanted to see it didn't. It totally did. Because it's not just like the word yogi, except instead of a one. It's a no. Yeah, it's super bad. OK, good job branding guy that they stole from another company. Maybe they could have stolen higher up the chain. They stole from Nokia, hilariously. Hilariously. I like money for nothing in your phones or three. Always happy with a good old fashioned music pun. I feel like we get a lot of dire straits references in these titles. That one is very elegant. Yeah. Yeah. I like that a lot. No, no, Nokia from Nadella. Hmm. Yeah. Such mania is not running wild in Salo Finland. That's all I guess. That's for sure. They're not real happy, I'm sure. Never eat spaghetti during the show because you then get immediately sleepy. Bad thing. Is that what you just did? I did. I took the opportunity to eat lunch and I ate leftover spaghetti. And now I feel like I'm going to dribble onto the floor. Basta, hangover. It's the carbs. It's the loading. I feel a little bit low key. I feel a little like a future Internet of Things project. I like that I kept pushing for the guy spits on the street low key definition and Tom would keep bringing it back to the slow thing because it was a far more classy thing to define it. Oh, the low key versus the low key. Because here we call them low keys all the time. Oh, really? We call them low keys. Yeah. There was a low key. That's why. For whatever reason, regionally or something, everyone here call them low keys. Horking up a low key was a common phrase. Oh. Horking. Wow. This took a turn so fast. I blame Logitech. There, Logitech. Yeah. Services is selling and selling is services. You know, they could just add a T to it and call it Logitech. Yeah. Yeah, that's not bad. See? They probably couldn't trademark that. Maybe or they didn't think of it and I just made them a million dollars. Or they should just do Logitech colon something for like this hot new line of things. So Meerkat is on life number two is ahead right now. I like that a lot. And I'm exporting. Or I'm importing. So that may be our title. No, they'll never forget unless I say so. It's pretty darn good. I kind of want to go with that one. Anyone want to talk me back into Meerkat? I don't know, I like that. Wait, hold on. I'm going to check one thing. All right. I don't really, I'll do the export audio. So one thing I will say is I never forget is a commemorative political slogan that originated after the Holocaust. So if you're cool with that, then you should go with never forget. Oh, now I'm not. How many people really think of that that way? Only the Jewish ones. No, I'm definitely not using that now. Sorry. Want, want. Annoying producer. Well, no, it's good to have someone who's aware of that stuff. No, just aware. I mean, I'm sure most of you would be very unaware of a lot of the horrible, unintentional slights we make on this show. Yeah. That make me wait on time to time. That doesn't mean they're actually slights. Yeah, and unintentional slights. I mean, everything you say is a slight. Yes. You mean me? Including what I'm saying right now. Yeah. Probably. Mostly what I say is a slight to. Save the angry family from itself. Nothing to add. The angry family. That's how all families are. A family that can't argue is a family that's not real. Agreed. All right. I agree with Roger. You've got to be able to, like, disagree openly. That's all it is. You just say, yeah, if you have a group of people, you don't have to dance around all the time. You don't have to walk in and stuff. I'll tell you, I got that at home. And what I'm looking for when I come to work is just a little bit of peace and quiet. I got that double time stereo. I'm assuming my argument's going to go up when my kid reaches speaking age. Oh, yeah. Dang. And if she learns the magic word, no. No, no, no, no, no. Anyone sooner than you think? Go to bed. No. Eat your vegetables. Roger, I really can't wait for you to start explaining factual things to a two-year-old. I think it should be a podcast. Oh, from what I understand, you know what I'm actually. That's true. I don't think you're supposed to explain everything. Just explain enough for them to do it, is what I was told. Someone once told me that the problem is everyone tries to over-explain things to kids that they don't understand. You just need to get far enough that they nod their head and do as you say. That's fair. The echo now supports Phillips Hue, the Belkin Wiimo, and Wink. What's the Phillips Hue? Is that the light changing? Yeah, like the home-automated light stuff. Echo, I'm in the mood for love. It changes all the lights. I just did an echo. I just interviewed my echo today. Yeah, I'm posting it for my 0.5. I'll tell it anyway. We did an interview with Alexa, Matt and I. I love that idea. I should have thought of that. That's a great idea. I feel like somebody's thought of it already. I'm just doing our interview with Alexa. It does feel like a thing that's probably happened, but it never occurred to me until right now. It's just our little brains and how it works. It's really like all technology, a reflection of the person asking the questions. Right? Yeah. I agree with that. And that's why it's eminently repeatable. She's got some pretty sweet, I will say, as a plug for it. She's got some pretty sweet Easter eggs floating in there. Yeah, they're not bad. Some of them are nice and long and meaty. I like her take on 2001 Space Odyssey stuff is pretty good. We found some really good gems. And we found them weirdly naturally. We didn't go look to a site. We didn't go look up top 10 Alexa Easter eggs. We just started talking to the big black sphere and our cylinder. And all of a sudden, she just came alive. It was kind of neat. I like Alexa. I like her a lot. It's my favorite of the voice-automated, voicey voice thing. Me too. I've never gotten along with Siri. OK, but it's mostly for transcription-y kind of things. And OK, Google's all right for searches and stuff. But I really, I don't know. Alexa just has a very natural, it always hears me. It never has trouble knowing what to say. Well, I think she has seven speakers all around the cylinder. And then what I really like is that it seems like she's really trying. Like, he programmed her to be very like, I'm really trying. And I don't know it yet. And I just think Alexa in a year is going to be really interesting once they have all this data of all the things we're asking. All I wanted to do is connect to more other services. I wanted to work with Spotify and even Apple Music. I want her to understand complex sentences. Alexa, give us movie reviews of Age of Ultron. Yeah, that'd be cool. It does weather and things like that so well. It'd be nice if it did that. But if you ask it one exact thing, she, it can really do it. If you ask a compound question, she can't quite nail it yet. And that's such a linguistic challenge. That's the part I love. That's machine language business. I think it would be nice if when I asked it to play Def Leppard, it didn't play karaoke versions of Def Leppard. Oh, yeah. That's so good. Sad. The problem is that she doesn't have unsupervised learning. Right. Unsupervised learning is the machine language task of having an AI that can actually learn by context and by hearing more language. Supervised learning is when you label things and say, this means that and that means that. And anything that's not labeled doesn't get understood. And any labels that are there are only get understood in that one way. Right. Sounds like you got your nano-riomol planned out. That was actually research I did for an episode of that upcoming project that was supposed to launch July 1st, but didn't soon launch. Oh, it is launching soon, though. OK, yeah. It will. I was afraid you were going to say something terrible. How about that there are other project that I keep asking you about once a week that I really need? Oh, who, Tom? Yeah. Oh, good, not me. I keep asking it for academic purposes. Tom looks so frightened. I have no idea what you're talking about. Is that right? It starts with a P and it ends with ASTING. Oh, you're talking about me writing a book on podcasting? Yes. Why didn't you just say that? I didn't know that I was going to say it. Because you didn't say it. I was like, this must be a real secret. I don't know what it is. Can you please just write it up? Because people keep coming to ask me about it. And what I really want to say is, ask Tom. I say everything I've written. Let me tell you what's funny. First of all, we should talk about art and stuff, and maybe we could make a really whizz-bang book. Yeah. Second of all, when you said it starts with P and ends with casting, my brain literally just said P Casting. Yep, yep. Just you didn't even think I podcast every day. We hear what we want to hear. What is that about? New series coming out of Frogpits soon, folks. That's right. How can you P further? Yep. Trying to write your name in the nose. We can help you with that. That's pretty funny. Today is a great day. Is it? Yeah. My back hurts. I wish that didn't happen. My feet feel better. I got to do like Tom. So when you say you set up more, how do you remind yourself not to slouch or do old habits? Do you have a trick? Not really. Just remember that you're doing it all the time? Yeah. In fact, it was funny. I started doing it in May two years ago. And so, Nerdtacular, two years ago, some guy came up to me at breakfast and said something about you're sitting up straight flying because he noticed me constantly sitting. But now it's kind of become normal. It's just you are. That's what I've got. And honestly, it was linked to me grinding my teeth. So when I felt my teeth grinding, I knew like, oh, I guess that was the reminder first. Just being more aware of that. I'm going to get the thing. Tomorrow's of the many doctors, the week of many doctors. I'm going to get my mouth fitted for one of those like sleep things. Oh, I got one of those. That I like to call the sexy mouth. Yeah, that's hot. You put it in at night. You're just like, I look like an idiot. No, you look like a linebacker. You got like a football guard in there. Is it a night guard? It's a night guard. And then you wake up in the morning with like stale drool on your mouth and you're like, you married me. All those things are great. I love those. I have an open bite. If I didn't have one, I'd be, my molars would be gone. Yeah. I have the same problem of my lower front teeth are we're whittling away. Because I guess I meticulously grind those, not like a big general jaw grind, but just like hit those. So he made me do it. And it's been the best thing ever. It totally stopped me. I think independent podcasting might be a grinding situation, because every single podcaster I've talked to who makes their living fully from podcasting grinds their teeth. Well, my dentist said that anybody who works in any kind of job at all where there's any kind of pressure, which sounds like everywhere. Right. Use a mouth guard as well. Yeah, who's not doing that? Hey, Amazon Echo just sent me an email. You can set it up with your Wink Hub compatible devices to turn on things like your stereo fans and office lights. Yeah, I got the same email. So my actual Alexa sent it to me. I don't have any Wink Hub devices. Well, then forget it. I kind of want to get another Alexa for the office, because now I miss her when I'm gone. Alexa had chocolate chips to shopping list. It's funny, it's the first device like that I've thought about getting multiples of, too. Yeah. I couldn't even get the one, so. Well, you know what I really want? Now I don't want some, too. Actually, what I really want is I want an Alexa app for my phone so I can say Alexa. And then it goes good that it's connected to the. No, there's the Amazon Echo app, right? Why doesn't that respond to a voice? Why doesn't that have a voice command? That's the next thing. They made an SDK for app developers to put the Alexa voice recognition into their apps. Put it in your own app, Amazon. I bet they will. Yeah, they probably will. It is a nice feeling. There's something about Alexa. Here's what I think it is, OK? We are setting off so many people's Amazon Echo. I know I'm sorry about that lady. That's really nice, is that I think with the rise of smartphones and anyone who's not a total audio file, I think maybe we lost the concept of a central audio device, because I don't have a tuner in my house anymore. And I don't have big speakers. And so the idea of this central audio device that also talks back to you is really quite lovely. And I think we've missed that centralized music. I mean, look, everyone who really loves music has that. I have it. I know. I don't. I don't. I might have to get rid of it, though. Somewhere along the way, I lost the tuner. I actually keep a tuner, because it's the only way I can listen to the radio while I do work. And I still like listening to the radio. I don't know why. I just do. Yeah. I think it's because I think I'm missing out on all the local ads and stuff. The ads? Color. Yeah, you know. The ads and news. News or ads, both. They're all ads to me. Interesting. News is just paid for, Tom. It is. Wake up. But do you think your traffic's brought to you free? No. I don't think so. Well, folks, I think we've come to the end of our post show. So thank you for joining us. And stay tuned for a brand new Sorden laser later today after the following ads, slash news, slash ads. Can't tell the difference anymore.