 Okay, hey friends, this is Dan and Stephanie Burke. You're watching behind the scenes divine intimacy radio We're excited to have and a guest today an unusual guest Dr. Ian Murphy and he's written an exceptional book called the road to self-awareness the therapy book for Christians and he has a fascinating story of being three at once times 300 pounds and then Finding healing in the way back to kind of a healthier life, but the book's not about weight loss. It's about authentic self-awareness in the context of God and His will for our lives and and so I'm excited to have him Share with you the wisdom that he's gained in his own battles and through his deep rooting in the Catholic faith Before we jump into that show, I want to tell you about two upcoming opportunities One is for divine intimacy and marriage retreat November 3rd through the 5th at the shrine in the most blessed sacrament in Hansville, Alabama November or November 3rd through the 5th spiritual direction.com forward slash events especially for the guys out there that are low on on Marriage points. Yeah, how do you know about the point system? Listen That's supposed to be secret. No, it's there. So so guys if your points warehouse is down do Zero zero or if it's in the negative negative and you want to really bless your wife And by the way, we always say this but we don't act guys that ask guys to act like women a lot of these retreats are designed You know on sort of a shmarmie pup psychology and the I think It's very cool about this and this is absolutely 100% true. You and I have never been to a marriage retreat So so we did not build this on anybody else's model. This has come out of prayer It's come out of our own stories Yeah, and our own brokenness and and how to truly You know the the secondary line of it title is a scent to oneness Yeah, and we play off that word oneness with each other and with the Lord Not in that order But certainly it's it's very powerful and I I'm just really struck by the fruit of The marriage retreat. Yeah, we just had a Couple of couples even more. I think no there were several couples Yeah on our last pilgrimage that all went to the retreat and it was a profound blessing for them They're still talking about the fruits of it. Yeah, so anyway, yeah guys Reach out go to spiritualdirection.com forward slash Retreat or a force for slash event. Sorry spiritualdirection.com forward slash events and check out the dates and all the details there Because it would be a Incredible early Christmas present For your spouse and then then the next opportunity then we'll jump into the show is The mass and the Old Testament approaching the Lord with fear and trembling Gonna be taught by Dr. Robert Goucher at the Aval Institute and to participate more fully in the mass We need to be aware or it can be helpful extremely helpful to be aware of the symbolic Nature of the text and structure of the mass and this course will explore the way that liturgy We celebrate today has been shaped by themes from the Bible. So Avila dash Institute org Avila dot Institute org lots of This is a school of spiritual formation course, which means it's it's deep content, but designed for busy people So I think you'll like that So ready to go and jump into the show. Yep. I'm excited. Yeah And we need to make sure The bottom of the questions page is the URL Work Okay, okay on your mark. Oh, you want to bring it back to her? No, you want to wait? Yeah on your mark. It's that go this Dan stepney Burke Welcome to divine intimacy radio your radio haven of rest your hermitage of the heart your monastery of the mine Where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw upon the wisdom of the saints to help us to Navigate this tumult of this incredibly difficult Life and we have a man That's coming to join us in the show today Who has a great deal of wisdom to offer us and how to navigate? Personal growth spiritual growth self-awareness fight against sin. Yeah. Yeah union with God all that good stuff Yeah, yeah, and and I really love this because this just really ties into Our own spirituality our charism Apostoli VA, you know, how how we live out This call to holiness that we're we're trying to pursue and trying to cooperate with because Teresa of Avila herself And we just got back from Spain on an amazing pilgrimage and walking in her steps in her footsteps But she herself says that we must grow in self-awareness till our last breath. Yeah that that is part Central to our walk in holiness fascinating enough is St. Catherine of Siena the opening paragraph in the dialogue speaks of this importance of self Awareness and so right right. So I want to introduce our guest dr. Ian Murphy Ian Murphy experienced a stirring journey into Christianity out of agnosticism His subsequent ministry to reach other skeptics with the gospel Unexpectedly rocketed to public attention when his valedictorian speech about Jesus made headlines nationwide inspiring a congressional law from the desk of senator Arlen specter this momentum Landed in into the position of head pastor at a Baptist church in Texas where his ministry remains centered Until his decision to become Catholic. That's a leap Shifting career direction. He became a press a professor of theology most recently at Divine Mercy University his autobiography Entitled dying to live from agnostic to Baptist to Catholic Included a forward by Scott Hahn and was published by Ignatius Press His second book is the 2023 offering from Sophia Press entitled the road to self-awareness a therapy book for Christians Which we'll be speaking about today He currently works as a full-time Catholic writer and speaker and resides near Charleston with his wife Rachel Welcome, dr. Murphy. It's wonderful to have you I'm delighted to be here. I can't thank you enough for this opportunity to get to meet you and to talk about the book I am so grateful. Thanks for everything you do and thanks for having me on the program I'm glad to have you. I I I found your book is a is a is a good read Which isn't always the case sometimes good books are hard to read and they should be ready even if they're hard to read But I think what I really liked about your style Is that you are very vulnerable and you interweave your own struggles with gluttony And your own wrestling the book isn't about gluttony or about weight loss But it is about healing and coming to to deeper wholeness and healing in Christ Why did you decide to be to take that path of revealing your own sin to the world if you will? I really appreciate that question. I had been reading a lot of beautiful and important books that I'm glad I read But there was something about those books that I started to notice across the board that had been bothering me namely they all seemed to condescend me as though An expert who had it all sorted out Was talking down to me and I felt like a cell phone and he was downloading the right app And he had it and I didn't and I needed it and it just felt like the writers Were all sorted out and I started to think well I don't have good news as a Catholic because I'm all sorted out I have good news as a Catholic because I'm aware I'm sick And need a hospital for the sick and am in desperate need of the great physician And and I thought about my favorite writers like st. Paul Who talks from his own brokenness and david who talks from his own repentance insane agustin Who whose entire prayer the confessions his autobiography? Is coming from his own vulnerable brokenness and in encountering the one who's healing him You know through his prayer you can have that same experience and I thought you know, that's that's the style I want to imitate that's the style. I would like to write in Is humbly you know from my own brokenness not as though I have something all sorted out because I certainly don't Yeah, I I love that and I think that really resonates with people today because the last thing That I think you know, I think people can easily listen to folks and go okay Well, what do you have to say you know because you? You you haven't been where I've been you you don't understand how broken I am Um, I remember the first time I heard a Catholic speaker admit that they had troubles in their marriage and I exhaled and I said Thank god, they're normal You know and it was like oh, okay now I can listen in peace because there was this chasm of distance, you know this this between me and them thinking Okay, they're perfect. They got it all figured out and I'm you know, I'm broken How how do I possibly? Absorb, you know what they have to say or how can it resonate with my life? So thank you for your vulnerability because I think it will really resonate with people where you've been Um and and how far you've come and and and who? Who was the catalyst for that right? Um, which is our lord so will you? Uh, tell us a little bit about how you came to be where you are now speaking about self-awareness Tell us a little bit about your journey. How'd you get here? Sure the uh the original title of this book was going to be how Thomas Aquinas helped me lose a hundred pounds But uh as you said so well It's it's not a weight loss book and it was Sophia press that quickly realized that this is a book about healing period it's a book about salvation about the process of being perfected in love Being perfected in charity growing in the virtues and not just being healed from sin but healed for abundant life and so that's why we changed the title but The the book started when uh, you know one day I I I sat down, you know feeling healthy and handsome and My giant over 300 pound belly popped over my belt And literally shot open my sports coat That had been fastened with a single gold button What when my belly? Pushed the sports coat open it shot that button off The button goes whistling across the room Soaring through the air popping against the wall like a projectile missile I pull out a scale and step on it for the first time in years I hadn't stepped on to a scale is one of those old dial scales and this little dial is like every 360 degrees represents a hundred pounds. Well, this thing goes around once twice a third time and it's still going I this little dial was doing laps, which apparently was something I ought to have been doing I get on the phone. I call my sister. I said sarah. Am I fat? She says you you didn't know I Said I honestly didn't I look at myself in the mirror every day And I honest to goodness had no idea I thought it was perfectly I was totally blind That I was destroying myself and a slave to a literally deadly sin I know I was eating my way into high blood pressure a possible early heart attack And it was quite the wake up call And I think it's important, you know, we talk a lot of on this show about Grace mercy compassion. We are also talk a lot about The need for us to be authentic disciples and to knuckle down and you know You've not resisted to the point of shedding blood, you know, St. Paul said in in the Hebrews So to buffet our body make it our slave. So we really try to bring the balance the two And so but one of the things about your story that fascinating fascinated me was That you you know, the Being that overweight affects everything you do it affects, you know A lot of things I don't want to go into describe but It it's a debilitating in so many ways and it's and it you would think it's so loud. I guess It's so loud What I find fascinating is And and this is important for those who are trying to help others to grow in virtue Is we look at others and we think Well, look at what a loser so and so is I mean contrary to the gospel reading today, right for mass Look at what a loser so and so is Why don't they get their act together When so many times when you're stuck in habitual sin like you were Well, I'll just ask you what does that do to your perception? I mean like how did you How do you orient that to catholic theology of a phd in theology? How does that all work that a person you could be so overweight? And if it was affecting your your your dating life if I remember, right? You know How does that work? Why does that happen that we could be so blind to think something so incredibly obvious? That's such a great question. And as you pointed out so well, I Could see that same sin in somebody else crystal clear Like if I was in a room and some other guy who was only five foot ten weighed over 300 pounds I would see him as the obese guy in the room right, you know, I could I could see it in someone else, but How was I so blind to it in myself? Aristotle has this great line from nikomaki in ethics and he says vice expels rational calculation Vice expels Rational calculation our ability to think reasonably rationally Our self-aware ability to see ourselves with clarity Sin expels that Or to put it in theological terms as you asked Thomas Aquinas talks about sin and ignorance Sin and ignorance being the two fold darkness Into which we were born You know, it's not just that we're born into this covenants rupture called sin It's that we're born into the darkness that results the expelled Rational calculation we're born into a two fold darkness estrangement from our creator and A misunderstood image of our father as the loving provider He truly is which because we're made in god's image means A warped self image You know, so we're born into this warped god image this warped self image We're born into covenant rupture And the ignorance the blindness that it produces. We don't see that's what sin does it blinds us to ourselves Beautifully stated powerfully stated we get back from the break. We're going to continue With um, we're going to continue with dr. Ian Murphy that'll that pause will be edited out And so will those statements will continue with dr. Ian Murphy and we come back We're going to talk about the relationship of daily prayer with becoming awake to Our brokenness and what god is doing in our lives and how it helps us to See the truth and to see ourselves in light of his love and grace and Regarding where he wants to take us in this life as we journey to heaven. So we'll be right back On your market set Well, I think we covered all the commercial stuff. So On your market set go this is dan stephanie burk. Welcome back to divine intimacy radio your radio haven of rest We're here with dr. Ian Murphy. We're talking about a fantastic book the road to self-awareness a therapy book for Christians So dr. Murphy before the break you explained well theologically Why we can be blind to patterns of sin? um, I there's a There's another angle to this and that is the power of prayer and how it turns the light on in the room I I I recently was blessed with so fience to press to bring back An extraordinary work by another doctor of the church Called prayer a great means of self the salvation by saint ophanus of guru And it it he talks about how those who don't practice mental prayer Don't care about venial sin. Don't see it. Don't understand Their brokenness. I mean i'm i'm paraphrasing but he basically says Without mental prayer and he presumes of course to sound sacramental life Okay, but without mental prayer, which means without walking closely with an intimacy with jesus That that even with the sacraments That blind you're blinded but with prayer. It's like turning a light on your soul Did prayer play a part in your Coming to that. I know the moment of the button popping was like a natural phenomena But you could have popped a button and went oh the stupid sport coat what a crummy piece of you know A material but instead you went oh i'm i've got a problem Were you praying at the time of how important is prayer to coming to self-revelation about Or all these kinds of issues It's everything to to put it succinctly it's everything uh Don't try healing without it. You know in fact in my book I say if uh if you want to try doing this on your own steam go ahead and mark this page And after you fall on your face just come back and pick up reading And uh and start with prayer because that's it is everything. Yeah, i'm reminded in uh the interior castle Uh, I think it's in the very first castle st. Teresa of Avala Says people who aren't willing to turn inward And aren't willing to look inside be self-aware And face themselves in the light of their creator. I I just don't have a lot to say to you This book just simply isn't for you Yeah, you know, I don't I don't know what I couldn't say to you And that that button popping moment It was an invitation To prayer and I had to accept that invitation and and when I did That light came on And I've got to say when when you have that light come on and you actually get a good look at your desperate need for the redeemer And just how deep the wound of sin goes in you It's a horrifying sight and the temptation is just Well, like roaches when you turn on a light in a room they Right back into the dark. They don't want the light on it The sin just wants to get back to the darkness. You just shudder. You want to look away You know, it you know, nobody wants to say hey, let's get a flashlight on that Ugliness in myself. I'll take my ocular fill Of that inner nastiness. No, no, we want to look away and I found that the only thing that made it safe For me to face that dire need for the redeemer Was to know that his love is always bigger than the sin His mercy is bigger than the sin My sin is not the starting point. God's love is the starting point And it is only when I am assured of that love that it makes it safe to get that illumination and know I am under the blood of the lamb and God loves me and his grace is bigger than this problem And it's that connection. It's it's god who heals us and it's We who cooperate with that process by letting him do it. Yeah I you know, that's so beautifully said and and described and I think The the problem with sin is that it darkens the intellect it darkens our self-awareness It darkens everything within us that would help us lean towards the lord Lean towards the father to receive that healing because the enemy loves us to to believe God doesn't love you. He's abandoned you. You're hopeless. You're hopeless. He has nothing for you You just might as well accept that those cockroaches are you And crawl off into some hole and die Rather than understand that you are not your sin And that the lord Desire he he doesn't love you in spite of your brokenness. He loves you because of it And and and I love this understanding that the lord came when he returned. He still had his wounds He still had his wounds and he wants to meet us in our brokenness And glorify that glorify our wounds so that he can work in and through it to heal us and to heal others And and it is just it's just such a profound You know reality here as we read your book and read this The story that you've gone through is that the lord has done exactly that with you in this particular area He met you in your brokenness and now he's using it through your healing To heal others and that's just a beautiful thing So I wanted to talk to you. I go ahead. Go ahead I just wanted to give an emphatic amen to that beautiful insight I I just hearing the way you worded that fills me with so much hope That you know, I think about that the resurrected Jesus still Had those wounds now glorified as badges of honor as as testaments of his faithfulness to the father and and to us I will spend all of eternity Contemplating those wounds on my behalf And when I think about you know, what my own wounds and what my own brokenness Could become in the hands of this same redeemer That's what an exciting thought. It's glorious. Thank you for that. Yeah, it is absolutely glorious Before we get to the next question. I want to just call our listeners to the book. We're talking about dr. Ian Murphy Uh, the book we're talking about is his book the road to self-awareness of therapy therapy book For christians. I have no doubt you can find it at one of the best Christian source or catholic sources for books or christian and catholic and that is EWTN's religious catalog Something really cool happens when you buy books from EWTN religious catalog One, uh, they'll send you the book when you pay them, which is great and two, you're actually helping an incredible worldwide ministry of price redeeming love And so please support EWTN in every way that you can we're grateful to be to To to have this show and to to all the great work that they do But go ahead Steph. You got a another question for for dr. Murphy. Yeah, and and so Tell us about, you know, you use the word A therapy book for christians. Well, everybody's into therapy. They're all you know, everybody's navel gazing Trying to figure out Who they are and why they do what they do so that there's someone to blame or something right and so It's I think it's well-meaning But it can often be misguided and promoting approaches to personal healing that are keeping people really sick So what would you say is missing from today's self-help industry? What's different about what you do and what's harmful in the world out there that's keeping people locked In their brokenness Thank you for that question. You said it the the therapeutic world today Is well-meaning but dangerously misguided. It's as though they're they're seeking to heal the human person But they don't even know what the human person is They don't even have an accurate anthropology. They don't know that fundamentally We are reflections of the creator We were created in the image and likeness of the triune god who is himself love as a community of being and if you don't start there Your approaches are going to be grossly incomplete at best And dangerous at worst and this is what's happening. Uh as an example A tragic one. It's a popular therapy today. So you know what therapy can we pause for a second? We're we're you're uh, you're uh, you're audio you're uh, your microphone's going in and out Oh, okay. Try it again. Go ahead Okay, okay. I'll try moving it a little closer. Is that helping? We're good. We're good. I think it was on rn So, um, do you want her to ask the question again? Or are you good? You you we can start? We're an example a tragic example if if are you good with that? I'm good with that. It should I move the mic back? No, no, no, no Don't touch anything. We're good. Good. Okay, great. You ready? sure A tragic example Great mark that go A tragic example of misguided therapy today is the popular treatment of struggling married couples going to counselors And being advised to watch pornographic movies together I mean and and the insanity of this can be shown Just through clinical studies alone. I mean even somebody who rejects the christian revelation Can still see clear evidence of its truth its objective truth in clinical studies that prove that Pornography has an effect on the human brain the same as an addictive opioid You know, they have literally attempted to heal a broken marriage by prescribing adultery and narcotics I mean it's it's patently absurd And in spite of clinical studies, it's still being advised as a popular treatment and the examples go on and on University counseling center handing out free contraceptives you know to try to Counsel young adults at some of the most vulnerable moments in their lives this university Uh that did this of course ignored the biological effects of the bonding hormones that are released during intercourse And the suicidal inclinations and depression that can result When those bonding hormones are released and then the relationship breaks up And so what was their answer to the new problem? They handed out antidepressants They threw through a pill at the situation which might treat a symptom, but it's not going to heal the broken person Dr. Murphy We have not scratched the surface and we're coming to the end of the show. Would you be willing to do another show with us? I would be honored. It would I'd be delighted to thank you for the So folks if you want to watch the new show live stream hop out to spiritualdirection.com But in the meantime, you can find more of dr. Murphy's work more about him at Dr. D r i a n m u r p h y dot com. That's d r i a n m u r p h y dot com in the book The road to self-awareness therapy book for christians published by suffine's to press you can find it uwtn's religious catalog Okay, and with that we'll be right back No with that Until next time may the god of peace make you perfect in holiness. May he preserve you whole and entire spirit soul and body irreproachable at the coming of our lord jesus christ Amen don't don't pop us off jordan. So again folks if you found this helpful, and you want to hear the second show Go ahead and pop out now to the spiritualdirection.com Is it the facebook page jordan? And then it'll also be on our youtube page And so we'll uh, we'll be right. We'll be we'll be over there in just a minute to continue our conversation So we're going to close out this show dr. Murphy, and then this link will become Non-usable, but jordan's going to email you a new one right away Once you once you pop on we'll start the second show Sounds great. All right, thank great