 And Elizabeth is just coming on. Oh, great. Yeah. Wait for a moment till she gets on. Yeah, she says she might be mentally, but she got here pretty quickly. There she is. Okay. Well, welcome to this hearing of the local historic district commission. The purpose of our commission is to aid property owners and the town and preserving and protecting the distinctive characteristics and architecture of buildings and places. Significant in the history of Amherst. And today's agenda is pretty central to. That goal. So we want to start by welcoming our newest member, Elizabeth Sharp. Welcome to the commission. And do you know everybody here now? I do. Okay. I do. Yes. It was great to meet everybody the other day. That was perfect because we met in person. Thank you. It's the first time a lot of us met in person. True. Well, the first thing, the second thing on our agenda is to discuss East Amherst as a potential historic district, which was the purpose of our meeting on Monday. We need a site visit. And so I want to open up that conversation. Steve. You're muted. You're muted, Steve. Can you guys hear me? Yes. Oh, I think we should pursue it. Don't you guys. I'm sorry. I thought it was lovely walking around. I was surprised how many beautiful. Historic buildings there were. I'm sorry. There's a. Street that goes so fast through the area, but we can only work with where we are now. So. I thought it made sense. It appeared to be. Still cohesive. You can still get the sense of. East village. As it was called. Both the commercial aspects and the residential aspects. From the 18th century through the. Early to mid 19th century. So I thought it, it seemed logical. It had, it had a logical cohesion today. That it. That it had that. I agree. I think it. What we saw was quite interesting. And there's still a great deal there. That looks quite. Historic and worth preserving. Bruce. You're getting ready to say something. Bruce. I agree. It is unfortunate. In some respects that there's a road that goes through, but the road. Is a common. Or at least historically. It's. It's. It's. On one side to be. The common. And. There are more. Historic buildings there, of course, than you realize driving past because. They, many of them have been clad in various ways. That. That have the cover up a lot of the. Historic detail. The historic. Historic. Historic. Historic. Historic. Historic. What. The cover up a lot of the. Historic. Detailing, but. Cover a gap is probably operative, because it means it's still there. In some ways. It's protected. So. It's not evidence as much you look, you know. You, you. When you, when you walking, you see the foundations and you see this building that looks new. And then you see that it's. It's impressive when you see things like that, particularly when you weren't expecting it, but as we were walking with the sole purpose of seeing things like that, it was interesting to find that they were there, not everywhere, and some of those buildings or portions of them are old and they've been biggerised, and some of them have not just been biggerised, but they've also been buggerised, if you can use that term, probably not. In other words, they haven't been cherished in quite the same way, but the proposal that we're considering would increase the chances that owners might, if they knew what they had, be encouraged to move towards revealing some of the more historically pertinent parts of their buildings. So it's an interesting, and we've only half walked, so we've got the other, we've got as many again buildings, which we will have similar findings, so it's definitely an area that's got quite a bundle of old properties in it. And I think it's significant that the National Registry has been established with these buildings and things. It didn't sound to me like we are kind of bringing in anything new, any new buildings, just branching off of, or building off of what is already documented from the National Registry. I was surprised by how many buildings were like well kept and had owner and were owner occupied. You just don't even realize it, like that one Dickinson building, and if we did it, it's pretty adjacent to the Dickinson LHD, and I think maybe it would elevate that area. So I'm very enthusiastic about it. Could I ask a question? So it's been a while since I've done this. Nate, could you just review the process, the length of time, you know, the timetable, like how does this, how would this take place? Yeah, I mean I think we'd have to have another site visitor to establish possible boundaries and then, you know, every property needs to be inventoried. And so, you know, based on the existing and proposed National Register Districts that's probably already occurred, we may need to update the existing forms. You know, there's a study committee that's formed. So this commission can either act as the study committee or recommend that a study committee be formed that would do this work. And so, you know, Mass Historic says it could take up to a year from initial research to adoption. It could be faster depending on, you know, how fast the research can get done. You know, you'd have to do a survey of the residents, hold some public hearings, write a preliminary study report that's reviewed by Mass Historic and then write a final report after certain steps. I mean, I, you know, it could be eight to 12 months. Lincoln Sunset took over three years. Yeah. Yeah. I know. That was a big one, yeah. It was a big one. I mean, and also sometimes, you know, we could, for instance, Mass Historic just wrote back about actually one of the districts we were talking about trying to expand and they really do want all these updated inventory forms and photographs and things. And so they, you know, so I think maybe half the properties are more than half any samurse, although they're inventory, you know, we'd have to redo the forms and probably update the bibliography and research. So we could get, you know, say that takes a few months and then we'd submit a preliminary study report to Mass Historic. I've heard that they are pretty busy and so, and it could be that the study report stays with Mass Historic for a month or two before they provide comments. And so, you know, there's just points in the process where it, you know, it takes some time. But yeah, I think the only comment I was going to make is, you know, we're trying, the town's trying to put out a request for a proposal for a consultant to look at the downtown design standards. And my hope is that the standards have, you know, different building types and things that could then be adapted to fit other village centers. And so, you know, not that we need specific design standards or guidelines for each district, but, you know, e-samurse is, it's interesting in that it is mostly residential, you know, the structures are, you know, there's not a lot of, say, brick or commercial, you know, Lincoln Sunset has something similar as well, but varying styles, I feel like in at least the small portion of e-samurse we walked was pretty more, is more consistent in terms of time at development. And, you know, would we want to have any design guidelines or standards that wouldn't necessarily be part of the bylaw, but could be referenced by the bylaw that the commission could use in reviewing that district. And it could, we could, you know, we can have those for any district. And so, you know, that's something that doesn't have to happen at the time of adoption, but it's something we've often discussed about, you know, could we have some other guidance documents as part of a district. So, you know, Elizabeth, your question, I mean, I do think it's probably at least six months, you know, that's, that'd be quick. A two-fold sort of follow-ups to that is one, is there money to pay somebody to do this work? You're talking about updating a lot of forms and more research in the new bibliography, etc. So that's, that's a bit of concentrated effort. And then the other question I had is what is the role of the residents themselves or the owners of those properties? Right. So there's no funding right now, you know, it'd be staff time and we could put a request in say for CPA funding or some other funding, but not, you know, there's not like the commission doesn't have a, you know, dedicated fund or anything for that. And then, yeah, I mean, we have Pioneer Valley Planning Commission is under contract, they, you know, they submitted the expansion and within East Amherst there's the existing forms and there is some existing CPA money that we're trying to get them under contract to update those forms. So they might be doing some of the work anyways, which would be nice under a separate contract and for another purpose, you know, for the National Registered District, but I could serve a local historic district as well. Yeah, I do think that can be a lot of work. I mean, I know there's volunteers in the community that can help. A couple of things. Last time I actually digitized most of them. I typed up two a day for over a year. So that was the labor. And then we did get a CPA grant for $5,000 and we hired a graduate student, a UMass who was like terrific. And then in addition to that, we got a bunch of interns, the UMass, who were not as helpful as a grad student, but very helpful. And but before we even kind of feel like we're putting the cart before the horse here, because before we can even talk about East Amherst LHD, I think we have to talk about the downtown effort and what we're going to do about that, because if we do decide to proceed with the downtown business LHD, we're going to be spreading our, this will have to be spreading ourselves way too thin. So could I, could we table this for just a second until we talk about what we're already a little bit down the road on? Yeah, I mean, I was just going to say, I mean, it might be pertinent, you know, the second question is what about property owners. And so, you know, the typically during the study process, you'd you would notify all the property owners in the proposed district with information and have a public hearing and a public meeting with them, inviting them to come and provide feedback. And so, you know, there's usually a survey that you provide to property owners in terms of their knowledge of districts, you know, their thoughts on them in terms of preservation and other things. And so, you know, when we first did the the first district here, the Dickinson local historic district mass historic said, you know, if a majority of property owners are really opposed to it, you know, it may be that you should delay the process and really try to inform them so that they understand it and that there's, you know, say a majority of support. It's not necessary. But, you know, I think that as the town as, you know, town staff and, you know, the town has to adopt it, I think we would consider how property owners would would react to it. So, I mean, you know, I think that's there's a balance there, right? So, you know, I think that's relevant to the downtown one, because really there's only one property owner, maybe two, but really just one property owners, many of the properties. And so, you know, when we're looking at the Dickinson district, we are thinking of expanding to a lot of Amherst College properties. And so we met with Amherst College and asked them what they thought of, you know, being a local historic district. And so, you know, it didn't necessarily, you know, I think that is important, but it's not necessarily, you know, I do think if all the property owners say no, then I think, you know, we'd have to consider, OK, why, you know, is there things we can change, you know, do we need design guidelines up front to show them what, you know, could be allowed. So it's not just to know anything, you know, any change. And so, I mean, those are, I think that's a mass historic would probably recommend is just, you know, slow the process down a little bit and, you know, figure out how it could be approved. How do you get to, yes, I'm sorry to keep talking. You're right, Elizabeth, you weren't here before. There actually is a handbook published by the Mass Historical Commission that delineates the actual procedure. So then there's a form letter that goes out to all the property, prospective property owners. So we'd have to send that out. Then there's a prescribed number of hearings, public hearings that you have to have, at least three, I think. So there is a deliberate process to doing it. Sorry to keep saying. Oh, that's fine. Yeah, we can. Yeah, I can send you the link. It's on. Just send me the link. Thank you. So the next steps, Nate, that makes most sense are to do what? I mean, I do think, you know, Steve's question about what. What area to focus on is important because it is a big process for both, you know, so even if, you know, downtown is a smaller district and work's been done, it's still there's still a process that needs to happen. So I think, I mean, maybe having that discussion together, you know, because I do think it's a lot of work. And, you know, because there isn't any money, it is staff or, you know, your time, right? If you want to be the study committee for East Amherst and if we'd say, OK, there's, you know, 70 inventory forms that need to be updated. That's a lot of work. You know, I'm just throwing a number out there. And, you know, so I don't, you know, like I said, we're trying to get PVPC under contract to do some of that. But so, yeah, I don't I think maybe talking about this, the town center one as well is important. Let's move then to a discussion of the LHD in the town center. I know Steve has done a lot of work and has a report for us. I really haven't done a lot of work. But I did, Bruce and I did meet with Kirk Shumway a couple of weeks ago. And I did want to report on that. We presented, you know, the we tried to be holistic and just be creative and just say if we would support, you know, relax zoning for that part. Like for instance, four stories that are three stories or we showed Kurt the sketches that Pam Rooney and Susanna Faving had done. And I know that Kurt's on one. Kurt would Kurt, you know, was not receptive to it. And, you know, he doesn't think that the buildings are particularly historic. And, you know, I don't want to speak. If Kurt's on this call, I don't want to speak for Kurt. Kurt is perfectly capable of speaking for himself. But one thing I did want to say was that during the meeting, Bruce had to go. But before Bruce went, you know, he he had some reservations about having an LHD on those properties. And he had to go before he could articulate what his objections were. So I'd like to throw it over to Bruce, because I'd like to hear what he has to say. Chris. Oh. I'm resurrecting my thinking here. And I was speaking for myself and I was thinking aloud. It was a nice meeting. I felt comfortable in Kurt's presence, even though he was the owner. And he had made it clear that he either controlled or owned this substantial portion of the strip that it was. It was something that's been in the family for a long time that that he and the family care about it. He's a kind of a family trustee that he had said, well, you know, there are I could sit on it and it could stay the way it is forever or I mean, for a long time or we could do something else. And he was helping us understand what his thoughts would be as a property owner and and also a property owner who is a developer is development inclinations from time to time. So he's he's so anyway, I was looking at that property and I was thinking about everything that I have thought and said in the six or so years that I've been on this commission about properties. And and and I had the feeling that this property, at least the section of the property from Coles laying down to Halak was an unusual situation. In that it was all owned by it was all of us in. So we've got lots of we've got a number of smaller parcels, but they are already consolidated as a single owner. Number one, and number two was it was a it's a property in my view that has been kind of ravaged by the economic pressure that has been exerted by the expansion. And in the 50 and 40 years ago, the very rapid expansion of UMass. So ravaged in that sense that it used to be perhaps, you know, when my wife was a child here in the late 40s and 50s, a kind of a residential district. But then in the 60s and 70s, it it had this force that happened to it that changed it in a way. And I didn't live here then. So this is just what I've heard from being grown up and live with my wife, who was born in town, you know, almost 80 years ago. So I and I thought, golly, maybe this property is one that should be. Changed, it should be we should try and encourage whoever owns this property to do to make a building, which in 50 or 100 years will be the building of this era that we want to preserve and that responding to these forces that have kind of ravaged the residential area that used to be and turned it into a fairly underdeveloped retail commercial property. And it seemed like. So I was thinking that the that the kind of guidance and things that we typically would apply to properties. This seemed to be a unique situation in town. And I thought we should we should as a commission and as a town think uniquely about it. I think that's that was that was the the the background to my thinking. And so I was encouraging. Or I was thinking of encouraging or is thinking about what would what would a building that was. That that was. Less respectful of the of the of the buildings that are there now and more respectful of the force of nature or the force of economic change that's been that's been driving it for for a few decades. And and what is the what is the response which in a few generations, we'd look back on and say, yeah, that's the story of this site includes, you know, and it tells us it reflects the story of the late half of the 20th century's, you know, impact on this site. Does that sound like what I said, Steve, one of the things you said was that you weren't that you didn't realize that this was a location we were talking about, but let's put that aside for oh, that's true. I thought we were coming to the meeting of the west side of Kendrick Park. So my mentally, I was I was I was differently attuned. But, you know, I'm supposed to be able to make those kind of adjustments without falling on my face. It's OK. So anyway, I don't know, Nate has it online for us to see. But I typed up a inventory of the actual properties that are owned by Mr. Shumway. It's actually six properties. One of them, I guess, is under option is actually owned by Barry Roberts, but Curt has the first writer of refusal for it. And I also put up the photographs of each of the properties of you guys so we can know what we're discussing. Yes, I have looked. That was great. I mean, I looked and read everything that was there. I can't say I remembered it, but I've got it on another screen so I can get to it quickly if we need to. Well, I think I sent it to Nate. So I think Nate can pull it up if can pull it up later. Yeah, I was actually just a lot of there's a lot to pull up. I mean, no, no, I've actually created a this is only like they put up 12 or 10 photographs and then just one inventory. So that's really what I wanted to refer to just to be informed about this. OK, that's that's the list of properties. So you see that Mr. Shumway owns basically all of the block from Coles to how like and I also tried to put you can put the Bruger's bakery, which Bruger's bagels, which I didn't realize was the Shumway ice cream parlor. And it turns out that first click behind the Bruger's Bruger's bagel was the Shumway dry cleaners. So how about that? So it goes, you know, so like that also gives me reservations like Bruce. This is a family enterprise, you know, but to be to be so when we talk to Kurt and he'll Kurt jump jumps in. One of the things we discussed was having it right now. Does it you have this store? A board that offers recommendations about design, the design review board, I believe, but the recommendations are just that they have absolutely no they're not binding. So what we were talking about with Kurt and he was receptive to was coming up with design guidelines that are binding. And it seemed like the town and to be honest, I think the town, you know, was also I think they want to develop this area to, you know. And also, Kurt was after Bruce law, Kurt, I think, wants to put up dormant, you know, you know, housing for students. So, you know, he was showing us sketches and all that kind of stuff. So I was just wondering in my heart of hearts, I have a really, you know, with the Lincoln Sunset LHD, it was a wellspring of people who wanted it. So and I knew the people and they're, you know, our neighborhood was at stake and people's methods were at stake and their quality of life was at stake. So I really had a fire in my belly to pursue that. This is a case where I talked to the Massachusetts Historical Commission and we can LHDs can be imposed on property owners who don't want them. But I just, to be honest, I just don't have the same fervor for trying to impose something, even though this is such a crucial section of our town. So my feeling is if we could get the town and I'm sure you people will have a different take on this to really come up with real designs guidelines pronto, you know, not like it takes forever. And actually a binding, I think that would be a win for this town. And I think that basically all the research has already been done for us to issue a study report. We could put a study report together in a matter of a couple of months. Just, you know, the form B's have been revised. We'd have to follow the procedure, but that could be done very quickly. So my feeling is using that as kind of like leverage to get the town to move on this. That's what I'm proposing to do because because if they don't move on this, I'm coming up with designs guidelines that will prevent more archipelago building across the street. Then we should pursue this. But I think my feeling and I hope that people don't think I'm a Benedict Arnold, but, you know, my feeling is that maybe we should try to pursue real design guidelines that have real that are binding before we go down this route. And that's the case that would allow us to use our resources to like do these damers. I don't think we can do both right now. It's just too much. You know, it's all right. That's a nice speech. Karin. I think it's I would love to hear from Court Shumway, because one thing that alarms me in hearing all this, I agree. I think it's really important to have guidelines to have a nice design there is crucial for our town. But what alarms me is why when the town is in so much need of reasons for people to go to downtown, we've lost carry. We've lost so many little shops that bring people downtown. Why court is interested in another student dormitory? When I think it's time that the town and the university figure out where this mass of students should live. If we're going to sacrifice the main street of our town, which should be retail and should should be attractive, should be a place that brings people to town to make the town thrive. Why we want to sacrifice one of those really important spots to another student dormitory where nobody except those students are going to want to go. That's I would like to hear why this is the first choice that that would be really important to hear. And I'm open to his his assessment. So and Karen, just so you know, I discuss that at the meeting, I said that our brand is history in keeping the strip the way it is. It's part of making destination Amherst. And so and I so I articulate all these things just so you know, but this is the first time. OK. OK. Nate. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I mean, Kurt's on. He's having trouble with the audio connection. I think he might be on now through phone. But I was going to say he didn't necessarily say that he was in a built student housing. I think that's a mischaracterization. I mean, he actually said he would design apartments that could be used by by non students, right? So there's ways you can develop and design interior layouts. And he's, you know, I think he does have the best interests of the town in mind, right? I mean, this is his property. It's his investment. He wants to see it succeed. And so, you know, he thought the design guidelines were a good first step. And I so, you know, those would have my thought is that they would have regulatory power to Steve, that they wouldn't be advisory, that those would be things that planning board and zoning board would apply to projects in a way that it could be enforceable or be conditions. And so it wouldn't, you know, I think it would actually help with development downtown. And like I said, I'm hoping those design guidelines could then be applied to other village centers through zoning overlays or something. And so, yeah, you know, because. Going through, we have, you know, some grant money for that. It's a pretty, it's a really big project. So I'm hoping that it becomes more than advisory and it becomes something that is really used to help with development. So, you know, we have a community planning grant from the state that is looking at public right of way. And then we have town funds looking at the architecture buildings. And so, you know, what I'm hoping is that these design guidelines will say we have these are the setbacks you want from curb to building front. You know, here's how much you want for say street trees or amenities or seating. Here's what the setback would be to awnings. Here's the type of architecture and banding we'd want to see your types of relief or here's, you know, even recommendations on the height of buildings or how to screen HVAC and utilities. And it becomes, you know, pretty a really nice kind of guidebook that, you know, and it's, you know, it's illustrations and text. It's not formal zoning code, but it's something that is very usable and user friendly for developers, boards and committees and staff. And so, and it would have, like I said, some teeth. Kurt does have his hand raised. I was going to just let everyone know that this is being recorded. And, you know, I think, you know, it's a public meeting. So it's not, you know, he's not, if we ask him to speak, he can, but he's, you know, you don't have to, Kurt, if you don't want to. I know the commission commission members have asked. He just emailed me and he asked to talk to me. Yeah, so it's good. So I'd love to have him. And I know there was a hand raised. Maybe it was Kurt, if you wanted to raise your hand again, I can allow you to talk, Kurt. Oh, is that working now? It is, yes. Yeah, I've been. All right. So if you're on your if you're on your cell phone, then there's going to be the echo. No, no, I understand that I've been trying to receive or anybody because I can't figure out how to turn on the audio. But I guess that you had control of that. You've got the audio. That makes sense. OK. Hi, everybody. And yes, I I'm aware that this is a public meeting. I think Nate characterized it correctly. We had a nice meeting, Steve and Bruce and Nate. I think that it is a miss complete mischaracterization that I plan to build college dorm housing. I think. My goal would be to work together with as many people as possible to try to create something special for the town. There are some really fundamental basics that I've gone over with people. You won't hear me asking for five stories. I know what a no is before you ask. So I understand that. I think it's important to again, once again, I'm going to be aware that this is a public situation. So my my existing tenants who have heard rumblings of redevelopment have all come to me in favor of doing something because they really want a more vibrant. Frankly, I'm I'm looking at this as becoming possibly a destination. Some certainly restaurants potentially coupled with entertainment. There is no question and where I'm completely open and, you know, it would be foolish not to think otherwise is the components of development of this nature in this town are are the backbone is residential. We understand that. If you were to ask me if I was building this specifically for students, like some have suggested, other developers have designed their apartments for that purpose. I would say to you that no, it's never even crossed my mind. We will be I would be building traditional apartments with living rooms and dining rooms if we have one bedrooms, two bedrooms and three bedrooms, wherever the mix might be in a healthy component of affordable housing. I would be looking to do setbacks where we have people sitting out front and enjoying enjoying all that. I would try to stay away from flat roofs and doing peaks and dormers and just really, you know, the best way I can tell you is to try to work with people to try to create something that we have. We can be really proud of together. I read some of the notes that were presented about this particular site in one thing that I took sort of to heart was that it was described as, quote, unquote, alarming that one owner owns all this stuff. I guess I kind of it's hard for me not to take that kind of personal. My goal is to do something kind of really super awesome for the town, working with everybody and to be have it be very special. To say that students won't be living there would be a misrepresentation. We know there is a high demand coming from the student population. I wouldn't try to tell you otherwise. If they're away for me to to feel comfortable in building something of this magnitude, this is big stuff that we're talking about here. This is not one little small site. I don't want to hodgepodge this. It's already hodgepodge. I use that as my terminology because there are some aesthetically rather attractive buildings. I'll use what has once been my favorite property in all of what we have. There's two thirty six North Pleasant, which used to be the men's Resource Center, but way back it was River Valley Craft. To me, that was one of the most beautiful buildings in Amherst during Christmas time with the lights and all that. Well, I can tell you now I own it so I can say this. It's really a piece of junk. It looks nice on the outside. It's awful inside. It's functionally obsolete. I'm patching the roofs. I'm I'm holding it together just long enough to know what to do. And what I mean by that is it needs a significant investment to kind of keep it standing. That's an exaggeration, but I'll just sort of throw that out at you. What I don't want to do is start throwing significant dollars in to rehab these buildings. When there's an opportunity to go forward with possibly something more special. Now, that opportunity is in the in the hands of the town. The town has to create zoning that will allow something to happen there. To use the current zoning as an example, if I leveled every building. That exists on that proper on that stretch. Not only that faces North Pleasant, but behind those brick apartments. I could not build one additional housing unit than I have now. So there is no way for me to add one apartment. If you go by there, it sounds like you probably have. There's a tremendous amount of open space there. Opportunity for infill and things like that. But not under the zoning. So the towns folks know the situation better than even me. They know what they think they would like to have. And if the town wants to get together and create an opportunity for me to do something, that's terrific. If they don't, they will speak and they'll continue to keep it as is. And nothing will happen because I can't do anything. So if the town does do something, they kind of know what needs to be done. There are it's it's mathematical. You have to tear a building down. You have to rebuild it. You have the costs. There are there's income that currently exists. It would need to be replaced. There's risk. There's paying new debt. There's a ton of things that need to be considered. To take a building down. And replace it to have it make sense to try to even do something. I don't know anybody that wouldn't love me to take down brookers. Myself included, but that little parcel that you can't build anything on that little parcel, so it needs to be accompanied by other real estate. So for for your group to take initiative to maybe protect one building versus another is effectively. If there's development going to go on, it becomes in the hodge podge type of category. So I'll just sort of leave it at that. You can ask me questions. I'll answer as best I can in the forum. But my goal is to do something special of the town. I'd love to work with everybody to do that. I will say I sort of feel like this is sort of an anti-developer type of a movement that I don't think that is an awful lot of historic stuff going on there. I grew up there. My parents, I know the neighbors. There might be some old buildings that you can create history to call it to 236 building, but at some point in time. Without significant investment, that's just going to fall down. So it's not a good piece of real estate. So having said that, I'll I'll sign off. Well, you have control, Nate, so you can shut me off and join me back in as you want. Well, I think we'll allow you to talk her if there's questions, if you know, if committee members want to raise hands or ask questions, I guess. OK, I think Steve had a question. Well, Bruce's hand up was was hand up before me. I'll refer to him. Bruce. OK. This I wanted to say basically triggered by what Karen, what you said, Karen, I just want to make sure that we all understand a fairly basic force here that exists that. With the building code in this state requires it's the accessibility code more for primarily requires a level of access for commercial retail properties that involves elevators. So. Unless the building gets to be of a certain scale, where the investment can support an elevator and the buildings we're talking about here in town, typically below that scale. That's the reason why we're seeing residential uses on second floors and above. Because. To get a business. Or a retail or anything. Else would require that kind of access to be provided, which only an elevator can can can can can can can provide. So. Whatever might happen on the first floor of these buildings. And this is not just applies to Curtin. This these properties buildings that applies to everything in town. And the neighboring towns all the way to the state. Border. We might see all sorts of retail and interesting vitality on the first floor, but that very typically there's a very, very powerful force that is driving retail uses on the upper floors of buildings. And so we we we best bear that in mind because otherwise we're. Acting a bit like a kind of a commute sitting on the shore trying to stop the tide from coming in. It's beyond our power to do that. So so long as we recognize that as a kind of a basic force that the building development is constrained by in this state. It will help us manage our expectations I think I just wanted to say that just so that we know. And can and can operate effectively as a commission. Oh gosh I have so many things to say I don't even know where to get started. You know I didn't I don't I'm sorry you feel like I mischaracterized about student housing. Because we had a long discussion about it at the time. One of the things just so you guys have a little bit of history and maybe we're going far off one but the archipelago buildings across the street. They claim they weren't student housing and and Chris already heard this so he has to bear with me. And then we looked at the floor plans and the rooms are the size of self prison sentence. There was no master bedrooms no master bedroom bathrooms. In fact there were no commentaries. And we were like going wait a minute who who in their right mind. They always say young professional young families you live, you know, in something like this and then we actually went out and my wife went online. And it was these buildings I guess when he's pleasant street was advertised as a luxury student housing. So we you know you can't blame us for being, you know and also you have the, you know a lot of times, if a lot of students are living in a building are non students going to want to live there so that's kind of why I characterize it. And also as alarm by Kurt, the one point was talking about having a rooftop bar on top of the building that he was discussing. So anyway, my apologize. My apologies if I mischaracterized anything. The other thing is, in terms of letting those properties, you know, I just want to show that we have do have some kind of love and cheer. There's something called demolition by neglect, we're one of the few towns that doesn't have it on the books. And right now the Historical Commission and my implication is investigating trying to do it. It's basically what Kurt was saying it's allowing buildings to be demolished by not fixing a lot. And most historic towns that are commonwealth have something to prevent that so I'm all in favor of us proceeding with that as well. The other thing is in terms of Kurt, I can't, Kurt's such a nice guy I don't want to call him Mr. Shumway, I just want to call him Kurt. I know that he has only the best interest of the town at heart and his family goes back generations here. So I just want to like, you know, say that, but I don't think there should be any rezoning before there's some sort of binding guidance. So I hope that the town hears that. You know, and I hope the town if they want, you know, because I made to be honest at the last meeting, and you know I have nothing but the highest regard for you mentioned that these buildings are kind of junkie inside and I, I totally, you know, particularly, you know, believe you, but you got to have binding guidelines before we anything happens to say, you know, if we're going to not pursue an LHD before there's any kind of rezoning. And the other thing is, you know, just I just want to point out that mixed use has not worked a lot very well. I mean it looks like the time coming back a little bit but a lot of these developers, you know, want mixed use, you know, supposedly retail on the ground floor because they don't have to provide parking. Now if you have retail you have to provide parking. And if you have 100% you know residential you have to provide parking but you have this loophole of like no parking you have this mixed use. And now what they're doing is the developers are trying to diminish the amount of forest space on the first floor for mixed use, but still get the benefits of mixed use. So I just wanted to point that out to you guys. Oh my gosh there's so much more but I know I'm like monopolizing it so I'll yield for now. So, you know, I think that's, I'm very excited about the fact that courts that you want to do some destination thing and that you have so much land and that you would work together with the town I think it's really a great opportunity for the town to sit down with you and say, what do we need to revitalize the town you know, building it doesn't I think you can make a signature building. And it could be like a thorns market it doesn't have to have reset residential upstairs. I actually think a bar on the third floor sounds like a great idea I keep wanting the bank of America to put an elevator on the side of their house and have an outdoor bar cafe at the top of that with some greenery I think you know those kinds of things are exciting, and we can talk about it. And I agree, if we have a really good plan that's going to be a signature thing a destination thing something that's going to revitalize the town. And that's, and we like that plan, that's the time to change the zoning, so that it can be done. And I think it's a great opportunity, actually. I think you had to have your hand up. Am I on. Yeah. Oh, I'm on it's good thing I wasn't saying anything. Karen we've never met but I love your enthusiasm. Once again Steve I'm going to try to. I believe, again there's some sort of hot topics in town, and I'm going to throw out what I think is a little bit of a mischaracterization I never said a bar. I said a restaurant that had a bar very perceived very differently in this town. So I want to I want to try to make sure I have to step in to say that because it's a public forum because that's not my intention. What this town needs is. I love protocol. It's at this point it's an older it's a more of an adult type atmosphere. I think this town needs more of that. It would might be my intention to try to do more of that. I don't need a lot of headaches of booze joints and all that kind of stuff. They can make people a lot of money. That's not what I'm interested in it. Excuse me I got to turn off my phone here. What I will say when you your comments about retail let me let me kind of tell you from a developer's perspective, and certainly and clearly 100% mine. I don't think anybody here disagrees with the economy right now in the very high risk state of retail and commercial. Let's look at North Hampton and look at our own streets. I have absolutely no problem putting retail on the first floor it's very appropriate it's part of the character. I will tell you that when that there are fundamental decisions been going in this type of a project for for me. I suspect any other reasonable developer would consider the same is. I need to be able to build enough density as far as residential units to be able to pay the bills and make it make sense. No one in their right mind would put this type of and by the way Karen you mentioned one building there could be as many as four buildings on this entire project. It could be massive it's not we're not talking about one building. It's it could be done lots of different ways again. And it's a big piece of dirt. You can do a lot there, which is really exciting if you go into it with that approach. But I think it's important to know that the density is very, very important as far as being able to support the financial aspect of a project of this nature or several buildings. It's, you know, there's a lot of people downtown. Many of them are still recovering from COVID. Some aren't paying rent. Some are summer paying half rent. We don't really know I know my tenants and where they stand. And I'm still helping them through COVID. So I am not, I would not proceed with the project. If I had to rely on leasing and collecting rent from retail. It's just too risky. If we get. And I kind of talking again this comes to the zoning. Anything fronted on North Pleasant Street I've got two large buildings there there's the professional building. And then there's the hair by Harlow building 220. If those buildings were ever to be part of the project the overall plan which very much could and should be. There's no way the numbers would work on a three story building. I wouldn't ask for five because I already know the answer. So it has to make sense with four three it will not. We just built a three story building down on snow street down there in University Drive. So I know exactly what the costs are and how it would affect things so just sort of giving you the fundamentals of the decision going into something like this. But it's it there's there's a lot of risk here. Everybody would agree there's very little risk in renting apartments. It's what you charge for them. And we want to try to keep rents down. However, we need to pay for the but we do need to pay for the bills today with commercial interest rates at 7% or more. This project is less likely to happen than it was just 12 or 24 months ago. So we as developers take on this interest rate sensitivity risk that two years ago. The numbers are different. Now you go through COVID costs are 50% more interest rates are 50% higher. Now all of a sudden things just don't make sense. Now I'm not saying that they don't make sense. I'm just saying they make it's much more difficult to make sense. And those are things that are out of all of our control. So, that's the global here I just, I go back to saying, this is not intended to become some massive student thing that everybody, everyone's fearful I get it I understand where everybody's coming from. And I kind of feel strongly that the buildings that you all really dislike. You're trying to put all this together to try to keep from something happening. And I'm just kind of telling you. There's got to be a certain amount of flexibility, density, height to even consider something happening. And if the town doesn't put in zoning that accommodates that we don't have to have a conversation anymore, because nothing will happen. But if they do put something together that is workable. Then I say, if you want to put in design and stuff like that. Sure, that becomes expensive because I'm going to come back to you 10 times because everyone's going to have an opinion, but I'm worth. I'm willing to work with design because I want to do something special. But if you're going to take the town zoning and even make it more stringent. You may ultimately create a scenario in which nothing happens. That's all it's just very simple. I'd love to do something. But the town will speak as far as whether or not we can do it. And we can consider doing this together. I don't. I think having one person is an advantage than having to deal with a lot of different because you're not going to get a hodge podge you're going to get something well thought out a master plan and everything will work together instead of two or three different developers doing their own thing. That's just my perspective. Bruce. I was going to make a motion which I think would help us get to a resolution here but perhaps we should take Steve first. Okay. A couple of things I just wanted to assure Kurt that the one owner characterization is not a position of LHDC that was in the handouts that I provided you that was by Pam Rooney and Susanna faving. Fair enough sorry about that. Okay. Oh, I don't know. I mean, to be honest, Kurt, and we talked about it or if you didn't do anything now, he's fine. You know, so that's aren't you that'll be creating an LHD by default. So the reason why we're discussing this is not because we're an anti development, what those sketches that Pam showed you was the build out and behind which is what amherst college has done. Which I understand it's amherst college, you know, they're not business people. But, you know, so we, we, we would like our position LHD is we're not trying to inhibit development. We're just trying to preserve character, which is so essential to this town, being destination amherst and in attracting people because as we all know, the town is losing year round population. And that's the last thing I want to discuss, because I wanted to mention to you guys that Kurt and I did discuss stores Connecticut, which is the worst example of a college town. Jennifer and I visited all these different college towns in stores by far was the worst that had high rises with retail on the bottom floor. And the retail is not open except when students were in town. So as I mentioned the curtain was like the only thing that was missing from a ghost town with a tumble we blown by by the wind so that's what we need that's what we need to avoid. There's something else I was going to say but I can't remember what it was. There's so much stuff but okay I'll be able to back to Bruce. Steve, what was the name of the town sorry I didn't quite catch that. Oh, stores Connecticut. Oh, I'm reminded of what I was going to say. I went to Jennifer and I went to Brown, and I was an editor of the Brown Daily Herald so I actually still read it. And it's a very interesting article. The main street for Brown is a street called Fair Street. And last week they had a 20 year chart of commercial development. And basically what it was saying was that every single retail establishment, you know stuff like clothing jewelry stores all have disappeared on Fair Street, because of the internet and big box stores in the, in the street has become all restaurants. So I just want to let me which I don't think is such a, you know, personally I like, you know, I love that but I'm just saying that that's that's the wave of the future. Okay, I think I covered everything. Bruce, did you want to make your emotion. Well, yes. I would suggest consideration that because we're personally here to decide whether we would want to move forward with a with a district. Expansion of the Dickinson Sunset District I think that's exact that's, that's essentially what we're contemplating. I think I'm correct. So, my motion would be that we hold on the further consideration of expansion of the Dickinson Sunset Historic District. Until to the town has completed. And I guess completed means passed into whatever level of regulatory power that they will ultimately possess that we hold until the town has completed the design guidelines that are currently about to well they're under considered they're about to commence the development the development process for those. And then, with those guidelines in place. Allow the town to consider the kind of zoning amendment that would enable the kind of thoughtful redevelopment of consolidated group of properties between Coles Lane and how like. I think this is an opportunity that. I'm being someone's banging on my door I live in a co housing community it's very, very salubrious. I can't talk arena I'm on a zoom call with the town. Hold the expansion of the local of the consideration of the expansion of the district. Until the town has completed the guidelines, and that the town has had the opportunity to consider the kind of zoning amendments that would enable a thoughtful redevelopment of the consolidated parcels between Coles Lane and how extreme. Yes, I guess essentially the motion. And the only question about that is, I thought it was going to be its own separate like business local historic district, not an expansion. But I might be wrong. Oh, yeah, no it wasn't. I'm sorry. Well, if it's just change it to delete the word expansion then basically, it seems to me that we are in a situation, which as I said at the beginning when Steve invited me to reflect on what I had said in the meeting with curtain he and Nate and was that this is a this is an unusual situation. And as you've heard from Kurt, an unusual opportunity. Opportunity because we've got a developer who is his. I mean, it's so difficult to get developers, people who own property in town to come and talk publicly with planning organizations. I was the foundation chair of the master planning events that began in 1999 and after a few hiccups eventually 15 years later was passed. And the difficulty we had, and complete failure we had more or less in having property owners engage. So here we have a property owner who's is who's been successful in assembling properties who's prepared to engage. So to we've got right at the beginning of a process where the town is considering design guidelines, and we will expect will be, they will be effectively produced. And number three, the location of this is in that rather tortured space, which, you know, used to be residential and over time has not become so. So it's a, it seems to me that because of those three conditions we really should see if, if boldness will not reward us with a good solution. Okay, so we have a motion to hold on the decision to create a new LHD to include parts of downtown, until the town has completed its design guidelines, and then consider guidelines for thoughtful development of this area. We need a second, and then we can have some discussion of this motion. We have a second. There's no second to the motion. Okay, it's dead. It's dead. All right, Steve, you have something to say. Yeah, I don't. Well, I don't know if we need a motion or not to do this but I would just amend bruises. I think we should act in good faith, and look at this as an opportunity. And because once again, we're not about not anti-development will pro preservation and pro character. So how about if we did what Bruce's motion was and just made it a shorter period of time like six months or a year. I would say, you know, I like to have a motion to table further discussion of the downtown business historical commission for, let's say a year to see if the town can really come up with what they, you know, architectural guidelines which are binding. We're acting in good faith and let's see what the town does now. So that's, that's okay. I'll, I'll second that. Okay. Karen, did you have something to say. I don't want to interrupt that because I like that and I would go along with that. I just want to take this opportunity while Kurt is with us to say, is there any way with all your property you can figure out how to get a nice wonderful little grocery store in there. I would bend a lot of limits to get that as everybody is dying to be able to walk downtown and buy some nice cheese and things like that and not go to Cumberland. So I just wanted to take that opportunity. I second that motion. Well, that's up. So, so when you say nice little grocery store, you know, you do realize when you go to a grocery store you understand there's a lot of black top out there to park on right. So, if you're talking something comparable to a Cumberland's that to me is not a grocery store, but sure I'm not going to discount a grocery store like big why I mean you need parking right no one's going to that that's why they exist like that. I'm not going to sit here and predetermine what will want to go into these spaces. There's going to be plenty of opportunity to fit a store like that in to one, two or three different buildings. If there's an operator that can come in and operate successfully. I would agree with you. I think it would be great. Okay, did you have something else to say you had your hand up. No, Karen you're, you're muted. Sorry, I'm thinking of stores like in Manhattan where you walk in. And I would say no parking and no asphalt just enough to be delivered, you know, living in in Europe there's so many great groceries stores that are not big why I'm not. Okay, so again, you bring a good tenant that can operate do something like that bakeries flower shops all that stuff coffee shops I love all that stuff I think we all love the same thing. We just need to have somebody to be able to come in and operate and be able to pay, you know, I dare say market rent a fair rent to be able to to survive. It's our economy I speak to so many people by our economy now and I just referenced it now it's just a mess. I don't know how else to describe it trying to find workers trying to survive, get these small businesses to survive. It's just a mess and we need to come through this. And what how we come out the other end, I don't think we know yet. And that's one of the reasons why you have to be a little careful about saying no to a lot of things that when I talked to Nate and others. Whatever requirements you put down to give yourself the opportunity to say yes, because it doesn't have to be by right. I'm not suggesting that at all because I understand all the feelings and I agree with all that. But we don't know what this is going to look like when we come out the other end we're not even close it's we've got years before we really figure out to see how this is going to shake out with remote working with Amazons of the world with, what's in our future drone deliveries yet what we all want myself includes to walk downtown and have an atmosphere there so that's what I'm trying to create as an atmosphere there. In order to make that happen however, there are some things that we may ultimately not prefer and that is a lot of high density apartments there's just no other way to make it happen we don't have that kind of vibrant downtown retail business situation. It's a reality that we live with and that's that's what's going to make it happen. Steve. Yeah I'm sorry to keep raising my hand. Nate we haven't heard from you for a long time. In the town. You know make this a priority to do design guidelines and talk to fall can you. I mean it seems like we're meeting we all want the same thing. Yeah, no yeah. Yeah, no thanks Steve yeah no it's been you know the planning department's been a bit short staff but it is a priority the planning board has looked at the request for proposal a few times and so we have a document that's, you know we're actually hoping to get out next month to get a consultant on board so it is something that you know, I, you know, I wish it was already ongoing so it is a priority for the town I am. You know as the planning board has discussed updating the preservation plan, and you know they talked about East Amherst that made me realize that, you know, design guidelines and standards are really important so you know we're the planning board has talked about rezoning along College Street and East Amherst and, you know, Bruce said it would be great to have some kind of gateway development, right, as opposed to say what, you know, somehow when you come in Amherst and I'm like okay when do you arrive in Amherst it's nice to have something and, that may not happen without design standards and so I think that it is a really important piece. If we were to allow say redevelopment of certain areas, I like design standards to accompany rezoning, so I agree that I think before zoning changes we would love to have these standards in place. Hey, would these design standards be unique for the down the script that we're talking about for the entire time. Yeah, so the way it's written right now is that, you know, first there would be like a there's like a you know five step process one is kind of public outreach and visioning and determining kind of what are the boundaries of the study area for the design standards. And staff has really thought about their, you know, kind of like three levels of standards one is the core downtown say like along North Pleasant South Pleasant main right and it becomes, there's maybe a standards for this. It's like main commercial retail area and then there could be standards for transitional zones and then standards for residential areas near, you know, near downtown and so, although the consultant is only looking at downtown my hope is that say the design standards of these zones could become what's appropriate in other village centers and so, you know, we wouldn't, they're not looking at it but if we already have a lot of work done staff could take those and modify them and then apply them to the village centers without having to go through a whole process all over again right because we would have had a lot of work done. So that mean that's my, that's the way it's been crafted and the planning board kind of talked about that too is having kind of enough, enough in the standards that it, you know, you could adapt it and to other parts of the town without having to, you know, hire a consultant all over again so I, you know, we're writing it that way and we're hoping we get that product. Okay so we have a motion to table the further discussion of the downtown LHD for a year to see if the town develops architectural guidelines that are binding. Is there more discussion before we move to a vote. And I asked, I wanted to ask a question about the timing. So you feel that it would be a year before those are completed. The design guidelines. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a good assessment. Nicole. Can I ask one of the questions so the consultant presents these or drafts them up and then what's the group that approves them and does this commission or the historical commission also weigh in on those guidelines. Good question. Yeah, so there's. Yeah, there's a lot of processing, you know, like steps in the process where different boards and committees will weigh in. And so, I think there's going to be stakeholder meetings up front that involve, you know, anywhere from boards committees to residents property owners staff and then along the process along the way they'll be reviewed by different boards and committees. In terms of how they're adopted. You know the planning board would have to adopt them and maybe town council. You know, some of the things might be standards for the right of way so that, you know, the town council has jurisdiction over the right of way and then if it's going into zoning then it's the planning board. What it could adopt them or then it could go back to town council so, you know, it's, you know, that some of it is why there could be a process so you know the consultant. You know, there's like I said there's going to be some outreach some research surveys, a lot of time going back and forth with input, and then there's has to be this adoption of them so, you know, my thought is that they're not actually incorporated into the zoning by a lot so once the standards are done. We insert them into the by law and certain sections saying you know when we're viewing projects. These standards shall apply, and then the standards are already developed. And hopefully then it's an easy adoption to the zoning. So then that is a council adoption but you know the work is the consultant is doing the design guidelines not then staff or the planning board coming up with them that they would actually give us a finished product that could be adopted. So one more question about what exactly exactly is in the guidelines is it height. Is it set back. Is it architectural detail. All of the above, all of the above, all of the above and so, you know, for instance, like an Ithaca New York they have some, you know they, you know there's a there's a bunch but yeah it would be that so setbacks height, you know, it could be generated or hand drawn, you know illustrations with, you know a lot of text annotation saying you know here's the type of kind of architectural we detail we want separating first floor if it's retail from floor commercial you know is a type of banding or material change. You know maybe fenestration patterns you know glazing percentage of proportions to non glazing you know I mean just you know a lot of things that could help give the planning board. You know, you know guidelines when when reviewing buildings and so right now for instance zoning has a range of setbacks or might just say 10 feet or zero feet, but it doesn't relate to how the that building property line interacts with the street or the length you know width of a sidewalk or distance to curb and so these would get into that so you know in, you know, ideally we'd have say we'd have 15 foot sidewalks all over downtown or something right that's what if the consultant says that that I'm hoping that becomes how the planning board review projects if someone is coming and they only have. They can meet that setback that 15 foot setback with five feet on their property then it's five feet if another property is needs seven feet then it's seven feet and so yeah. Okay, thanks. Are we ready to vote. I guess I have another question just to clarify. The design standards and guidelines and the purpose of this commission with preserving the historic buildings. I'm wondering if those guidelines are actually going to be addressing like to me they don't seem that they're actually going to address. The existing historic preservation of a building. No, or like they're definitely giving guidelines as to building new and what we're doing with or maybe maybe not demolition but I'm just not certain that we, they do still like I agree waiting to see what happens. I don't know if the guidelines in downtown because I feel like that is going to help frame everything, but I'm not quite sure if the downtown guidelines actually are going to be working towards preserving the historic buildings, or if I'm missing something. Oh, I just want I think that's a really good question. And I just have a question for Steve Steve you mentioned six months and a year. And I wondered, and then we jumped from the six month to a year. I wondered if you had a preference of those two times, or six would be good, a better time to check in. Yeah, no I didn't I would just thought the year was more reasonable but to get back to Nicole's question, Nicole. I mean we have to count on the guidelines to be contextual and to look historic with the, you know, with the surrounding buildings but to be honest, we cannot. Unless you have a local historic district, we built buildings were becoming down if they do development. It was a major issue with with a local historic district. We can, you know, it can prevent those historic buildings, those, well, nine of them are historic, not including the big bagel place, and they are historic I mean Susanna faving has done who is the head of, you know, Smith College museum has done an extensive job. They're historic in terms of our town. So the real issue here is that we don't have a historic district, their local historic district, those buildings will eventually come down. The question is, can we do something to make it that what comes in their place is contextual and user friendly for the town. So that's really actually what this whole issue is about. But your question is really great because, and they I hope you can answer this what in your standards, are they going to be historical, you know, in terms of the existing character of the town. Yeah, I was going to respond the way you said see them being contextual so it's not as if they're going to say, you know, the hair by Harlow building that you know if you renovate it this is the window grill pattern you're going to use is not it's not going to be, you know, like that prescriptive of, you know, for a preservation design standard, but it will have illustrations and other things that could help if they were going to, you know, say redevelop that building or renovate that building that would also that would. The standards could apply for a renovation product or new construction so it's not going to be something that can only be used for new construction but it's not going to be. In my mind, you know, sometimes local historic districts have guidelines that are really prescriptive. And, you know, to the point of, you know, like four inch cloud board siding, you know, a 12 over 12 and that's not what I'm envisioning for these standards. You know it may for the residential right so I'm thinking that it might have some recommendations in terms of say window sizes or general appearance but I'm not sure it's going to get down to every detail like that. But once again, talk so much. You know, an example of contextual development that I actually was fine with is in South Kavli, you know that big complex or the movie theater is, and the bookstore the Odyssey bookstore. Are you guys familiar with that. Well actually it turns out I know somebody that works as a group of professors, holy Mount Holyoke, and that property is owned by Mount Holyoke. And Mount Holyoke made it a, you know, enlightened decision which I wish Amherst College would do to like try to make the town more attractive, they finance and design that development. And I'm fine with that development. You know, it kind of looks colonial. You know, so would you guys, that's the kind of thing that I'm like seeing my, you know, that's what I see as contextual. And point that out. I have to go in about four minutes. So I'm just alerting to that and I will be a positive vote on the motion, unless it's amended in some way. Yeah, hi, last comment. I agree with you, Steve. I think that that project over there in South Hadley is terrific. And that's exactly what I would envision something of that type of look in the area. I've expressed to Nate that if you want to have a three or four floor limit to allow exceeding the height so you can put peaks and things in and not have flat roofs. I completely agree that that is exactly if I had to point to one project that would represent what I'm trying to accomplish there. That's a really good example. And I'll kind of leave it with you that not, not the ones you're fearful of. That's what I envision. Are we ready to vote then. Okay, Nicole. Yep, in favor of halting. Liz. Elizabeth. Yes, I'm favor. Karen. Yes. Steve. Yes, Bruce. Yep. And we did. Yes. And I am too. Okay, so we're going to table. Further discussion for a year. You see if the town develops architectural guidelines binding architectural guidelines. And we'll come back to it at that point. I want at this point to return to the discussion of East Amherst or shall we wait with that as we are supposed to also discuss Amherst media's request for a 90 day extension. I would just, I, you know, I would say let's go to Amherst media is just it is time sensitive. And, you know, I think East Amherst we could try to schedule another site visit. Is there somebody from Amherst media who's here to discuss this. Yeah, Jim, Jim here. Let's go the executive director is here. Jim, you're you can unmute yourself you. And I just say something. Here to Chris. Oh no, Greta's. And Karen here from the, so I'm not the only member of this commission who was party to the consideration of Amherst media. So I think I can go without being a problem here. Sorry, just a rumination. I'm good and I'll see you all next time. Thank you. Hello. Would you like me to speak. Yes. Okay, this is Jim let's go I'm the executive director of Amherst media. And I appreciate you taking this issue up. Such short notice. As you probably see we're asking for a 90 day extension. One of the obvious reasons, one being that as soon as we had this wonderful certificate appropriateness back signed in February 22 of 2020. You all know what happened we went into COVID we went into all sorts of spirals. And we also lost our architect to get one associates retired. So we didn't have a final set of plans and we were stuck for quite a while. We now have an architect we have Tristan Metcalf of Metcalf associates out of North Hampton, our full set of plans are coming forward with a construction proposal. And we're just asking for your kindness to let us move a little for we have a meeting with the planning board, I believe June 7. I would look forward for that to make sure that we bring up what we're planning to do. And meeting all the requirements that were put forth by this, this body. Thank you, Tim comments from the commission. I think we, I would support giving them more time. Thank you, Nicole. Anyone else have anything they'd like to say. I also support it. Definitely. I support it, although I still there's in deep in my heart. I hope if Amherst media decides not to build it becomes parkland for the town green land for the town. So I don't know that that's a possibility but if Amherst media at some point decides it's a no go on their building. I'd like to go back to townland. So I think if, you know, it looks like there's someone in the audience has their hand raised, but if the commission wanted to agree to the extension, I'd want to emotion in a vote and then I would write just a like a meeting summary that would be recorded with the town clerk and then, you know, go on record and then it's a there's a 90 day extension. Do we have a motion to approve this 90 day extension. I motion. I said, then I think we're ready to vote. So, Steve. Yes. Nicole. Yes. Rita. Yes. Karen. Yes. Elizabeth. Yes. And I also approve it. So, Jim, you've gotten approval of the 90 day extension for your certificate of appropriateness for the main and gray street property. Thank you all. I appreciate it very much and look forward to coming before you very soon. Then it looks like, Tris, you saw your hand raised. You can speak if you'd like. I didn't see any controls and yeah, I did raise my hand. Now I'm just going to add real quick that the approved plans are going to be identical. The, the, the building programs will be identical with what's approved. Nothing is great. Thanks. Do we have any unanticipated items for today? No. Do we have any public comment? Then I think we're ready to talk about next meeting dates. We need a date to for to continue our inspection of the East Amherst historic district. And do we have, do you know of other businesses going to come before the commission that we need? Yeah, actually there's, I think I said at the site visit, there's a few applications that need to, will need to be reviewed at a public hearing their, their, you know, their minor projects, you know, like compressors, some lighting, but things that will need a hearing. And so, you know, if they're submitted. Next week. You know, with the notice, I mean, it looks like probably like the last week in June is when we would need a hearing. I may or may not be around then. So then it would be like the first week in July. I mean, you know, some of it is when, you know, trying to guess on when they would submit. But I think it's they haven't yet. So when we have 45 days, so I think we're okay. So I don't know if we need to, you know, if we want to schedule a meeting in mid June, just to have one and then we'd have one in early July as a hearing to review these projects if that makes sense. Okay, so mid June would put us at like June 12 or the week of June 12. I won't be here. I can do even so. The day of the 12th is difficult for me. I don't know if we, if, if Greta is also not there if the 19th, like the following week, if it's not pressing. I'm, I'm out of town till the end of the month from the ninth. I mean, we could try June 13th and then maybe like the week before we could have another site visit to East Amherst if that works for people. The commissioners and Nicole is a 13th better for you or is it. Um, yes, the 13th will be fine. I'm not available the week prior. And what time of day would you do this? The I mean, I thought 10 a.m. work pretty well for is that still the case for most people for most of them. I don't think I can't make it till 1030 probably. Okay. Wait, so for the site visitor, are we talking about the 13th? Are we talking about the week before that? I was thinking June 13th would be a meeting. Okay. Oh, a meeting. And would you do that at three o'clock? Nate, or that works for the, for the commission. I would. Yeah. Okay. June 13th at three. Okay. And then for another site visit, it could be some, you know, the week before. We could. Do you want to aim for that? Monday morning. Does that work? Nicole, are Monday mornings okay for you? Um, that week prior. I'm not available. Not at all. Okay. We could try like June 6th is the Tuesday a week before at 10 a.m. is that. He's not here that week. Nicole's not available. Yeah. It's all right. You can still do it. Peter, are you around then? Let me know. I'm around the sixth. Yeah. I'm also. With the last week in May work for Nicole, for everybody. Not for no, not either. We want to have that nice good weather to Nancy. So. The six. Six would work for me. And 10 o'clock in the morning again. And. Where would you like to meet? Yeah. Yeah. I mean. It seems like we didn't get. East. Or West very much in. On the site visit. So. You're starting there. I just, I'm trying to look at a map to see where it's. Parking. And so, I mean, I guess we. We could park on Spalding and walk, walk from there perhaps. Yeah. So we could park on right Spalding or I don't know if Shumway has parking and then meet. You know, meet in front of. You know, the if Marconky house in front of Salem place. At 10. Could be the meeting place. I think it would be helpful to have the historic maps. I had an end to bring with us. So we know what we're. What we're looking at. You know, what was there. So we get that broader sense. Nate, where did you say you wanted to meet? Oh, in front of. You know, the Salem place. The condominiums with that. Oh, okay. Yeah. So June 6th at 10 o'clock or is that 10 30. 10 o'clock. Yeah. And I'll, I'll, I can, I'll do that. I'll do that. I'll do that. I'll do that. I'll do that. I'll do that. 10 o'clock. Yeah. And I'll, I'll, I can, I'll just keep uploading things to online. So there's a, you know, a webpage that I started and I can put some maps. And, and I'll see if I can. You know, the inventory forms are on map macros maps, but I'll see if I can export them in a way that it's easy to. To get them in a file. You didn't label that file Sam. Or is it just going to be in our general file? Yeah. And it's actually through the commission's webpage. So there's a whole nother webpage. It says. I wish we could do Dropbox again. You can't do that. Grand said we couldn't do it. So much. They. I think that they like this better where it's just available to the public. So much. Yeah. Okay. You don't believe in Google drives. Yeah. I mean that was, you know, that becomes, that's the way it is. But I think that would be a violation of open meeting law. If there's document sharing or things happening with. You know, comments and not that's available to the public. So the preferences, you know, we put, I'm putting it online. Everyone can see it. It's public. So there's no. There's no risk there. Yeah. If you can just provide us with a direct link. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The doc, we having the documents ahead is really helpful. So appreciate that this last time. No. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We can't hear you. I can't anyway. No. You're unmuted, but we still can't hear you. I don't know if it's audio connection or. The long meeting. Elizabeth, I wanted to tell you, I'm reading. I'm halfway through your book. It's amazing. I was reading the Ben Franklin biography that won the imposter. I was reading it. I was reading it. I was reading it. I was reading it. I think the make a great movie. Yeah. I wanted Jack Nicholson to play. No, that action sequence. When the damn break, how did you document? Step by step. And I wonder how do. I'm sorry. Monopolize. Committee's fine. But what are, how do they have brass works in Haydenville and Williamsburg? copper or how do they know they imported that but like in new central new england this is kind of you know metal valley just think of what goes on in greenfield and turners falls and down into connecticut it's sort of that little little channel where they were doing a lot of metal working you know fine working and making the patterns and the pieces it's well it's in so well written thanks a labor of love that we got you on this committee so anyway yeah we are very pleased to have you on this committee thank you what a great group i'm enjoying it yeah thank you all right well i think we're ready to adjourn the meeting uh everybody so who who uh i'll take real call to be in favor grita um yes uh nicole yes steve yes caron yes you're back on we can hear you elizabeth yes and i too agree thank you nate for organizing the agenda and for the materials and we will see you on june 6th all right thanks everyone thank you bye bye