 for the next conversation of the day, you are just in time for this conversation on choosing a career, selecting a career, how best can you get a career that you love. Is it, OK to choose one and live in the middle of a cause and then get another? Today we have a conversation with Lois Achayo Barraca. She is an advocate of the High Court of Kenya. She is a teacher by profession also. Profession also, a YouTuber, akona profilingine, lo inskarebusana. Santisana, thank you so much. It's a pleasure having you, thank you so much. I know it's a cold morning. I have been complaining about lo nibari disana. But thank you for finding time. You teach also professionally. Yes. Where do you teach at? Karura SDS school, history religion. But that is now part time, like over the weekends. Because I'm not as much as I'm a trained teacher, graduated from Kenyatta University in 2017. I do not teach completely because of the advocacy. I have to be attending courts and all that. So basically it's just trying to juggle the two. So you did two courses? Yes. Education and law. And law concurrently? Concurrently. Yes. What point did you say that as a person, you want to become a lawyer and a teacher, didn't you get confused at some point? For most parents they normally say, how was it for you? True. For me it all begins with those childhood dreams that we all have. Mine was and always has been being an advocate. And I remember I used to say I want to be a lawyer because we didn't know there was something called an advocate. So I grew up having that in mind. But the moment I cleared form 4, I managed to get a B plus and the job placement placed me to do education at Kenyatta University. So I remember I was a little bit angered. I felt this is not what someone else has. Someone else is choosing a career for me. Would you not be the case? And since I'm coming from a disadvantaged family in terms of finances and all that, my mom was like, we'll be paying only 13,000 for your school fee. So that is much better than us going to pay over 100,000 for a different cause. In law? In law. So I said, fine. If this is where fate has decided for me, I'll do it. So in the middle of the course, I then got the West Pocot County Government because I had studied in West Pocot, a school called Tash Targal, together with the school. That was in high school? Yes. Having been the head girl in Danwell, they reached out to help my mom's sponsor course that I would be able to undertake. So I picked on law. And then I figured since I was already a year through the education program, and I felt that I liked it because it meant I was going to impact the young lives because I feel as women we grew up, some of us decided to become mothers along the way. And the first teacher to your children is actually yourself. So I figured this would be a personal course even to my own children. And that's how I started juggling the two and graduated from law school in 2018. Education 2017. Wao. Wao. Munguni man. Munguni man. Who is God? And remember as we continue this conversation about choosing a career, ask her any question. She is here for you. She normally does online videos on YouTube. What are they about? They are about access to justice in terms of law. Just trying to make sure that during the RISM CJ interviews, the question that used to come up was in terms of the common one and she really does not even understand the judiciary except the time that he or she has to come before court. So my is just to make the law accessible and to demisify the myth that law is expensive, lawyers are expensive. So I'm trying to put it out there that you can have this access to information even as you go to your advocate at least you have something to bargain with. You don't go there full fluttered like I don't know what I want. I want my lawyer just to advise me. And ignorance is not a defense. It's no defense in law. Ha ha ha ha. No, I don't know what I want. Ya, I don't know what I want. Ha ha ha ha. Why in the morning is the hashtag? Why in the morning? Give us your taking the gas to this. Ask your questions. She is here. She can answer all your questions when it comes to choosing a career. How best can you select a course that is worthwhile for you? Are you a parent? Tell your son that you don't have to tune into this particular conversation and ask questions before a chagwe kusambayat, a kuja kujuta katikati. You've seen students back out of their courses in the middle. Why do they do that? This is a conversation that will help you make better decisions, career decisions for you and for yourself. And Baraka, I'm looking at what you said earlier. As a child, when someone asks you what you want to be, what was your answer back then? Back then, I remember that question vividly well when I was in standard 4. And I remember I told my teacher of English I want to be a lawyer. So this law was in the system from the beginning? Ilkwa Kwa Damu was in the system. But what they didn't tell me is that there is more to life than just being a lawyer. I answered that question as if becoming a lawyer will be my ultimate goal. So should I achieve that, then that's over. But here I am, I've become a lawyer, proceeded to become an advocate of the High Court, but life still has to move on. There are other things with the corona pandemic, there are things I have to do to supplement my law skills, to supplement my teaching skills. So the career journey is actually more diverse than how we make children feel like it's this direct. Does the society normally do a lot of profiling when it comes to selecting careers? Do we have some preferences that we ought not to have as a society when it comes to choosing a career so that we want our children to become X, Y, Z and not ABC? That's a good question. Actually, villages where we come from, every parent, once their daughter or their son to either become a doctor and advocate. In fact, engineer. Rarely will you even hear the teacher part. Apart from us who were brought up by teachers so our parents were like lasima piwukwe mua limu. You were brought up by teachers? Yes, both parents were teachers. So you find that there are those, like you're saying, the society has profiled these careers for these particular individuals. So everyone is working towards that. And then we forget there are so many careers which are even doing much better, way better depending on the personality of your particular child within that given society. So when we force things the way of our children, then that is where we go wrong as a society. It's about looking at what, in fact, what has they even the society offered. This person is coming from Turkana. There are so many oil, oil gases being right now. There are so many from Turkana. So the question becomes since this child has already interacted with oil at a physical and more formal way, then this person should be able, we should allow this person explore, come to the university, do energy. We don't all have to go and do low. You see? We don't all have to go and become doctors. And you know, there's this belief that some causes are better than others. Is that true? Do you subscribe to that notion? That is very false. I can tell you for real, I mean the advocacy field and it all depends with how great your mind is, how willing you are to push. Don't just think simply because I'm an advocate. I'm going to see it, be fine, tell people yes, I'm an advocate and then at the end of the day my salaries are being paid, my bills are being paid. No, it's all about how badly can you push yourself. So there's nothing like a good career that will pay your bills. It's about your own will, your own zeal as an individual. So there's no good career and bad career. There is no good career and bad career. There is no good career and bad career. Remove it from your head and remove it from your belief system. Any career is a good career depending on how versatile you are. Yes. When it comes to a fomfo leave, they still, you know when you're young we'll listen and talk to a lawyer. We'll listen and talk to a doctor. Where am I? We had to cook and however. But I had different options growing up at my first option initially I said I wanted to be a doctor. I later changed and said I wanted to be an architect. I later on went and changed and said I wanted to be a journalist. Leaving fomfo, I had two options. Either no, I had three options. Either no architecture or journalism. I chose journalism at the end of the day because that is what I chose for myself. But there are many who live high school and they are confused on the kind of cost they are going to choose. And some parents normally say we need help. Who can advise my son? Who can advise my child? Is it okay if a parent chooses a cause for their son or their daughter? And how far should an advice on career go for a child who's just finished from fomfo? Thank you again for the question. So when it comes to how we incorporate parents into the career choices of our children, remember there is this saying in the community that goes mzazwako ameshi sana anajua mengi. So they know what is best for you. But for me it's always about incorporating that part of the statement into let's just give advice. The more we can do as a parent is give advice. Depending on our best on the fact that you're saying you've lived for a very long time and you understand the dynamics of life better. Even if the child is confused? Even if we are advising that's why we are trying to get him off that confusion through an advice. Then from there let the child now be able to because at fomfo I'm assuming we are dealing with around 18 year olds, 17 year olds, 20 year olds. As far as we can even go all the way to 25 this person has their own values which they subscribe to. They have their own strengths as an individual which they know much better compared to you because most of the time even we send our children to boarding. We don't even interact with them but you want to purport now at such a time when they now want to make a decision you want to be part of it and become military in terms of you have to do this. Forgetting that your child either is more of an introvert this child really speaks a lot but when it comes to writing or something of the sort they are good in writing. They are good in writing. So do you know like this person can actually end up being a great author. We'll celebrate their books. We'll be able to understand the dynamics of good reading. Get a segment in the newspaper he'll be able to contribute into columns rather than force this individual into becoming a lawyer this person appears in front of court and cannot even be able to express themselves. It doesn't mean this girl or this boy is a failure. It only means that when it comes to speech they are a little bit slow they take time to formulate words in their brain and that means they can only write better rather than speak. So when we force a particular cause to people just simply because we feel that is the best for them as parents that's where we go wrong. Let's just be there in terms of advising our children this is good this is so and so such and such a person did this and was able to progress tell me young girl, young boy tell me mama like how they used to call them tell me baba what are your values? This person will be able to tell you me my values is being in a place where people are hardworking being in a place where people are resilient and when you can be able to interrogate all those values now place your child into a career that will be able to flourish that particular inner self to be able to grow rather than concentrating on the only on the outer self at the expense of the inner person of an individual So parents let's just advise and then but the final decision let's give it up for this children let them go and try I mean to see what it is and you know I am also reminded of the fact sometimes when a parent gives birth unless you are an engineer you know you have already selected a career path for your child at birth when you introduce your child let's say that is engineer baraka and baraka is still in Sunday school is that wrong? That is not wrong for me I feel you are only every person is supposed to speak good words towards a particular individual that one can be able to propel this individual to greater heights he doesn't have to become an engineer but trust me he will not fall less of someone to be respected in a society So the moment we start saying this person is an engineer then what are you doing as a parent? No, you are just saying he is an engineer then you have abandoned your child into some boarding school where every program is so tight the only thing they do is math, English Swahili go and sleep you are not even providing that environment when they come back for holiday you will be able to build things so that we are building that engineer we are not just saying so it's about words matching your actions you are saying your child is an engineer you have given back to an engineer provide the environment we have now the CBC curriculum make sure as they are coming from school with those particular homework that they have been given take part in it make sure that you are more inclined into the engineering kind of virtues Yes Daktari Nimesha Daktari When a parent is in this particular conversation with a child and as a parent you want your child to select a particular career but your child doesn't want that how should that conversation be packaged whereby you are advising your child or in regards to a particular line of thoughts but they don't subscribe to your belief how should parents relate and how should children relate also so that this particular conversation ends up being positive at the end of the day wasi koro fishane they end up disagreeing and leaving the room Sure and actually most of them will even run away from home simply because we are trying to choose a career for a child so for me since this is the parent who gave birth to you this is the parent who has seen you grown trust me they have seen one or two things about you so the moment the results are first out so we are first starting from there we have results with us remember there are courses that can only be taking best especially here in Kenya best on a certain grade so for instance let's say an average Lee a student has gotten a C plus that is like during my time that was the minimum for you to get into a university but remember right now we have TVET institutions so it's not all lost you with your D plus you can still be able to be enrolled into a into a full technique and be able to do a course and even achieve much further than a person who went through university so it's about sitting your child down as a parent bringing your options you are options as a parent I want you to be this I want you to be that I want you to be and then the child also comes with their list of the things that they themselves the careers that they themselves have wanted for themselves so it means you should ask them yes what do you want these are mine what do you want to be so you'll find more often than not you'll find this there might be one career that the two of you are actually agreeing on so that maybe his number three is actually your number two so you sit down based on the fact that both of you have at least an agreement in terms of one of the careers discuss how far that career can take an individual give examples you know when you come with practical examples of people you can relate to in a society you are able to give up a child a mental picture of where they are going but now when you say you just want someone to become a doctor in that village there's not even any doctor who this child can be able to look up to and be able to understand okay this is what a doctor does but when we come up now with practical examples be able to show him so and so went through this and I believe if you go through that based on the fact that you are resilient you've gotten your C plus and C plus is the minimum for you to get into a university it doesn't mean you are a failure it means maybe one of the papers was hard that one is the one that failed you but since you are strong your stronghold areas you've done history well you've done geography well you've done so you can go ahead and do courses that are more humanities and from there make a better a better decision you've given a very interesting example that where I come from in my village there is no doctor so is it okay for someone's child or daughter to say that because where I come from there is no doctor I would like to be the first doctor from my village it is very much okay what we are saying is give this child a practical view bring that doctor whom now you know who has been able to meet the to meet better challenges and be able to even from a different community say as much as as we come from this community where there is no doctor the first doctor from a certain community let now that child understand the journey of that doctor that's what I'm saying about being practical give us the real journey what that doctor faced rather than just saying Ram Oguko is a journalist I want you to be a journalist like Ram Oguko who is this Ram Oguko where did Ram Oguko grow up from what has been his life give us at least the challenges that he has faced so that even as an individual as I go to school I'll always remember Ram Oguko despite the fact that I've never met you I'll always aspire to now want to meet you even as I try to manuva my career just like yours so practicality let's not just throw names in the air yes and for students a child that has just finished wants to join the university what are the things that they need to look out for to help them make that career choice for themselves true first and foremost like I had said we have the grades that we'll determine right now we are still waiting for their results from next so the moment they'll be out with Kenya unfortunately it's all the grades the grades is the one that determine which course you're going to undertake yeah right so the moment we have a grade in place then after that I hear nowadays it's called Kusps it will be able it replaced the former job it will be able to place you into a certain course for you to do now remember that is not all that you have to do if someone had told me when I entered into Kenyatta University around seven years ago that I would be able I can get into the university and still change my course then I think you see now that is a part my parent did not when she was giving me advice she did not also tell me that like if you don't want the moment you have been given this course now go into the university be real with yourself let us not take a course that will also make you drain yourself at an extent that you now want to drop out at second year at third year this is the grade you've gotten let's work with that grade this is the course they have given you let's work with that course go into the university change that course apply to change a course to the course that fits you within your own values within your own interests so that the question that we should be asking our children right now is what interests you as an individual rather than what do you want to become when you grow up what interests you from there we are able now to help and guide them as parents and you start that at an early age so that even by the time we are now getting to form four they now know the courses from the grades they are going to get know the courses they are going to select know how to change you apply to the various administrative bodies like in Kenyatta University you apply to the administration at the UN I believe it's also the same because yes so apply and have your grades have your schools changed from this course to that course and if you you're doing that selection is it that you select based on your grade only or is it that you can also do there is something called bridging can you go for that also as an option or should it be that because I got this grade therefore even though I wanted to become this I should change again do we have that kind of flexibility I'll say that we have that kind of flexibility but keeping in mind the fact that we are in Kenya I can tell you of friends who did bridging courses but at the end of the day you find every time they apply for a job this question always comes up and you find an employer my friend she works at the public service commission she chooses to tell me before I call you for an interview I'll interact with your papers first so the moment your papers comes forward this person does not want to even give you a chance this is the sad reality as much as that is what we wish to happen the sad reality in Kenya is that the moment someone sees you bridged biology you bridged your papers the first put aside let's try someone else first you will call him at some other time but we are now asking we are now looking for avenues where you still get what you want but at a faster rate rather than having to be having those closed on you so many times just because you bridged just because you bridged courses so yes it's an alternative but to be honest with our viewers is that it might don't be too optimistic just be open to the fact that the journey might take long but indeed you'll get there so if you are if you have the zil like I did I mean juggling the both degrees if you have the zil then you'll achieve it it's just about remain focused but if you when you learn to want things quickly bridging will still put you at the other side as other people are first being told take a seat you'll be told stand kido guapo which can be discouraging and you start asking yourself yes you start asking how less of a human being am I it doesn't mean you are less sometimes me kujikubali just let's not force ourselves into these careers remember there is this KFC founder who is celebrated to death to date this person was able he was called Colonel Sanders when he began his career he did everything and anything every time no colleagues no nothing he was just doing every career that he could learn but the time was getting to 65 years old is when he realized he can start KFC and here we are today when I want something to eat I'll go to KFC we still so what I'm trying to say is that even these courses like Chef they'll take you places that advocacy that being a doctor that being a journalist might never might never ever have taken you so at the end of the day it's not too late don't give up even if you get that low grade there's still that something that you can do for yourself so you need to be flexible you don't need to be rigid that this is what I want it to be be open to changes because even remember even us who get into these careers two years within our career you still want you feel like you now want to major and specialize in a particular area so this is just something that will guide you because they say education is powerful education is the key to success just make sure you have your education materials right the moment you come outside this world so long as you have your degree you can get into any kind of job specification and hack it well well compared to even someone who even did low we have clerks who never entered into low school but these people are doing much better in low firms than people who went through low some commit suicide because of the issue of you know courses you want to choose a course but the course that you want is not the one that your parent wants suicide or the job has given you or the job has given you you have already chosen a course you are in the middle of a semester but it's too much for you and you feel like you can't hack it what will be your advice to such a person you are too young you are still young life still has so much to offer you will be disappointed so many times you will disappoint yourself more than enough times does it mean you will remain down there does it mean like you will now decide that we are not going to we are not going to move forward apart from the failures apart from the failures that have gone through so me I will tell you take your time change that course move to another one go and try what you feel you want so it's okay to change it's okay to change I don't care for fear there is no embarrassment my friend go back to that time because the only thing you are saying is that it will take a longer time do you know still 2021 will still come and pass anyway whether you go back and do that course or not wow wow Baraka thank you so much it is a pleasure so it means that you have chosen a course in law and people are calling you lawyer lawyer you are just in your first semester first year these are lawyer these are lawyer it's not bad to change it is not follow your heart follow your heart kubali kwanguka other than you fall when you are when you cannot be able to rise up again you are still young go everywhere find yourself that's all the time we had today thank you very much Baraka for joining me today it was all about choosing a career for you I hope that you've got the inspiration you need Baraka a professional teacher a lawyer by profession actually an advocate of the high court of Kenya and a YouTuber I wonder how you've managed to juggle all of that at the same time considering also other responsibilities she's an inspiration thank you so much for coming thank you too for having me I hope we'll continue engaging in career in talks such as this just to make sure we change conversations for our youth and for the better of the country we need to change mindsets make sure that you keep engaging with us that's all the time we had today but before we wrap it up I'm seeing so many conversations