 Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Aiden. How are you? How are you? I'm learning a bit of, I got my cup of focal earlier this year. So that's, that's every little helps. Yeah. That's mine. Okay. So thank you so much for taking the time to join us this afternoon on the program. You've just written a new book. Yeah, my first book, actually. So yeah, this is all new to this interview circuit. But thanks for having me on. Give me a better background on your cell phone. So what's your nine to five? Well, my nine to five is working in communications. I work for the charity Sustrans, which you may be familiar with. We do some work in the Northwest and promote walking and cycling. But my background, I was a journalist for a number of years, both the Irish news, the Baptist Telegraph and print journalism. And then I moved into more charity communications. But I've always had a love of creative writing. And I just wanted to write the novel. And this story really appealed to me. And that's, that's why I'm here. And how long is this project? When was the first page? How long have you been doing this? A number of years. A lot. You and me both probably had less, less gray hair when I started. Probably I had the idea 10 years ago. And because I work full time, I was doing it in my spare time and on weekends. And as I say, my, my sort of experiences in writing news, it's very different writing creatively. But I really enjoyed it. And, and the story is a particular interest to folks listening in in Donegal because the story is set in, in Glen Bay. Great Donegal connection. The book is called The Wilderness Way and I say it's your first, first novel. And the story is it's based on true facts, but it's a fictitious account of what's going on. So it's a true story of the notorious Glen Bay evictions when landlord John O'Dare put more than 200 people out of their homes in April 1861. The same month, an historic battle erupted beyond the Irish shores in the American Civil War got underway. Overlapping of these two events sparked yourself to pen the story. So tell us more. Yeah, well, I've, I've, I studied history at university and my special subject was the American Civil War. So I'd visited Glen Bay National Park and was quite moved by the plight. You know, it was only in my 30s that I learned about the Dairy Bay evictions. And I was both horrified and intrigued to know why this landlord who built the castle, the original landlord of Glen Bay, why he would have affected all these people. And and most of the people he evicted happened to be children, about 159 of the 240. And then when I explored it further, I discovered that John O'Dare had married an American Civil War widow, and by the name of Cornelia Wadsworth. And she was the daughter of a famous war general, who was killed at the Battle of the Wilderness. So that's where the title comes from, The Wilderness Way. And I thought it was intriguing because the evictions happened the same year, same month, in fact, that the Civil War erupted. I thought bringing together those two storylines would make an interesting historical fiction. And I also wanted to, I suppose, go some way to understand what motivated John O'Dare. So the story is told from the perspective of both a fictionalised tenant called Declan Conahan, and O'Dare himself. So the story line has two perspectives throughout. And I hope I've done them some justice and tried to explore how historical characters cannot be painted black and white, just to understand a bit more about the myth around O'Dare. Clearly, he did some dastardly deeds, but I also was interested to know why a woman like Cornelia would want to marry someone like O'Dare. So that's explored in the novel as well. But overall, the story is about both emigration, Irish emigration, which as we know has happened in waves to America, and also the impact of the Civil War, the Irish contribution to the Civil War on both sides with the Union Army and Confederacy. And I hope, you know, it's, I wouldn't say, I hope it's an interesting and enjoyable story as well. It's a great link. I mean, I never knew that the American Civil War was going on at the same time as the famine was going on here in Ireland. So well, it was 10 years after, in fact, yeah, it's the Civil War erupted in 1861. So it's the same time as the evictions, but it was 10 years after, suppose that the Irish famine continued right through to about 1852. So it's a few years after the famine does feature in it. It's the backdrop to the story because the tenant character in it lost his father as a result of the famine. And the reason they go out to America in the story is because an uncle had emigrated as a result of the famine, and it's now part of the Union Army. So that's where I've sort of waved the backdrop of the famine together with the Derby evictions and the American Civil War. So I'll blow your mind, Aiden, but it is, it is based a lot in fact, but there is a lot of, you know, I love stories like that where you take a main character who actually existed and then wrap a story around it and include all the elements in it. Yeah. Does religion? Oh, yes, of course. No, well, I mean, of course, religion was central to people's lives. I'm still is for a lot of people today, but there is, you know, the tenants were, you know, from the Catholic tradition. But the landlord was from the Church of Ireland. And so there are two other characters that there's both the priest and the minister. And I have based the minister on the real life minister Reverend Maturin, who had the parish in Church Hill. And she'll know off the small village of Church Hill near with the site of a lot of the evictions happened. So I have written about the Reverend Maturin and their involvement in the evictions at the time because both the minister, but the church, the two churches, the Catholic Church and the Protestant Church at that time did come together and wrote a letter and actually include in the book, a real letter, which was written by the minister and the priest to beg a dare not to carry through the evictions. And so I tried as much as possible to be as accurate to the history where I can. And the whole thing after the evictions, obviously, the people who were affected, they had basically, well, had no choice, but the workhouse or escape to the US. And that's obviously why they had it in that direction. Yes. And actually, in fact, the many of the people that were convicted ended up in Australia. And there was a benevolent businessman, Oiden Melbourne, who paid for their passage. So a lot of the younger people, in fact, went to Australia, and following the evictions. But I was more interested in exploring the American Civil War connection, which is why I fictionalized the kind of the two brothers that end up fighting in the war. But yes, a lot of people end up in the letter Kenny workhouse. And some didn't survive as we know it was a pretty harsh regime there at the time. And others that were evicted, they ended up homeless. And probably, you know, we don't know for definite, there's very little historical accounts written about what happened. But I'm sure they died from exposure and poverty as a result of the evictions. So the book is The Wilderness Way is published by one more chapter in imprint of Harper Collins. It's available on paperback, an ebook and audio book as well. Have you done the audio book yourself? No, I haven't. It's 13 hours. But there is an actor called John Cormack, who has done a brilliant audio version. And I think he's done a number of books, including the rugby player there. He's audioed at his biography. Is that available just to the normal places where you get your audio books from? Yes, yeah, it's online, but you can also purchase the paperback in, yeah, and download it from various name names. But if you go to the Harper Collins website, you'll find the links to the various audio shops. You can get it in some bookshops here. I think Little Acorns and Dairy, Lonton Dairy are doing the paperback and waterstones. So yeah, it's available. It just came out last week. So yeah, it's out there now. It's kind of daunting, Aiden. Well, that's a good time to go into it. My baby's out there after all this time. Exactly. You have to release it now to the world and see what happens after all, after all your project for such a long time. It's been great speaking to you on the program this afternoon. And the book's called The Wilderness Way. As I say, it's by Harper Collins. It tells the story of through the eyes of the landlord and one of the evicted tenants, a fictionalised character called Declan Conahan. When John and Dair is planning to build a castle in the US to Declan and his brother, Emigrate, to US to escape the workhouse. After they ended up after the evictions, they joined their uncle in upstate New York, where they fight with the Wadsworth guards led by Cornelius' father in the Civil War. So it's a lot of big themes in the story Irish immigration, the American Civil War famine, unrelenting as we mentioned. But I think at the heart of it is family. And they want to stay together. And shaken by the forces of the time that's trying so hard to drag them apart. Without a fair sum up of it, yeah. That sounds it well. Anyone who's interested in Irish historical fiction, I think we'll we'll enjoy it. So hopefully you, Elliot, and if you absolutely I'm looking for I'm not a good reader, but certainly in the car. Long journeys. Audio books are popular. Yeah, definitely. Always the very best time with it. And thank you so much for taking the time to join us in the program this afternoon. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. That's brilliant. Thank you. Happy Christmas to yourselves and all the team. Thank you. Garmy yoghurt.