 I f***ing rather cut my foot off than be a vegan. I f***ing eat myself before I fricking sit around and eat vegetables. Everyone wants bacon and chicken and cheese and f***ing beef because they're selfish and greedy and that's what they think about, yeah? And they don't give a f*** about the animals having their rights violated. They absolutely do not have a right. This is what makes me laugh about these vegans. Just eat the goddamn chicken if you want chicken. If the animal didn't want to be killed, then figure out a way around it. If you really believe in your principles, then die for them. Starve to death. Why aren't you vegan? Is this your daughter? Here you go. Where are you from, America? Yes, I'm American. You're American when you farm here or you farm in America? No, I was a farmer from 9 to 17. Farming dairy. Ah, dairy farmer? Yes. So you're not vegan because you were a farmer when you were 17? I'm not vegan because I don't want to be. Because I don't see the reason behind it because if you were put in a situation where it was you and an animal and you had to survive at some point, you're going to choose that animal just like if you were trapped and your leg was stuck, at some point you're going to cut it off to save yourself because self-preservation will eventually come into play. Yeah, we're not going to disagree there. Because we're not in that situation right now, are we? So once again, why, I mean, animals are, like I had the ethical thing with myself about killing animals when I was 9 years old. And you just tucked it away? Not that I tucked it away, it's just, once again, it's a part of life. It doesn't have to be, does it? It's been a part of life forever. Killing each other has too, but it doesn't have to be. Okay, but it's still happening and it's not going to stop. Yeah, but my, I have a question. I mean, to say you're vegan, you're using plastic tables, you're using plastic bulbs, you're using cell phones. Let's go, guys. There's so many animal products that you're using that you can't tell me you're going to be a vegan and then go and be hypocritical about it all. Slow down, because we can talk about everything. Plastic, we're gish-galloping around. You said it's always happened. We're always, it's always happened. Killing animals is always happened. I said, so is killing humans. And then you went, oh, well, plastic and this and that. I feel like we should stay on one topic and then move on. The end product is all star, I mean, glue, crayons. Okay. Everything we use at some point is going to be a derivative of some kind of animal. Not everything at all. You need evidence for that too. Listen, and also once again, do you get your vegetables and all your stuff out of the ground? Now we're going to crop deaths. Yes, I feel like we're moving along to a cultivator. Doesn't just cultivate your vegetable. It cultivates the rabbits. Can I answer one of these things? Can I answer? You can answer anything you want. But you're moving from one thing to that. We went plastic, phone, crop deaths, glue. So which one do you want to tackle first? Go with crop death. So this one, you really like this one? Yeah, why not? So what is the accusation against vegans, particularly for crop deaths? The food that you're eating is not going to be 100. It's not going to be vegan because the animals that are being killed are going to be processed into the same plant. It's called fallen. It's it's permitted. The FDA permits a certain fallen of whether it be cockroaches or rodents into whatever the product business. You're going to have the same thing with your vegetables. When a cultivator goes through a field, it's not going to stop and say, oh, could you move rabbit? Can you move all that's getting cultivated to get your potato, to get your avocado, to get whatever. If you're going to use humans to pick it, then you're going to know how. No, that's no, no, no, no, no. We're staying on topic. Yes, crop deaths. I'll let you speak on crop deaths. You don't want to go to migrant workers and stuff like that. And we're going to go off and bloody space aliens and. Right. So, so, so your argument is it's not vegan because animals die in some processing of it. Yes, they all. And how do they die? Harvesters? Normally, painfully. No, I mean, like what is it? You're saying harvesters run over these animals? Have you ever seen a how a cultivator cultivates? I've read the research on this, yeah. I've actually driven the tractor. OK, well, I've watched little animals get brought up and spit into the machine. Yeah, most of them run away. OK, so that's a good. Well, there's research on it. So when you see six lines of proper crop things all lined up and they're all you think they're getting away. When we're all down, but they don't. There's research on this. And I can show you that they literally take you to Essex right now and show you the animals get chopped up into the. You start up a harvester. My start running. Yeah, they go down. They're not stupid. Where do you think that cultivator is going into the ground? It doesn't go into the ground. Oh, what? So you're talking about your tomato potatoes that all come out of the ground? Can we talking about wheat here? No, not just wheat. You don't just cultivate wheat. So which one is talking about? Because when you talk about a harvester, I'm thinking of this big combine harvester that rolls over a wheat field. OK, but. So that combine harvester doesn't run over a tomato field. Once again, to cultivate the ground, you have a plow that's going to. Now you're talking about plowing. Once again, it's all part of the farming process that is going to. Brother, you're just going to. Once again, you will turn any subject around because that's the way you're selling your product. Oh, I'm not selling anything. What do you think I'm selling? You've got more vested interest in this than me because you want to keep eating meat, which is why you're using crop dust as an excuse to continue eating meat. That's what you're doing. But I'm just saying that when you start out as an example of another reason of something that's just hypocritical. If when you start up a harvester, you ever walk near a mouse, they run like away. Have you been in the underground? I mean, I've had mice come up to me on the underground. They don't run away. Excuse me, they run. No, they really don't. They've done studies on this. And they radio collared mice. And only one out of the 30 that were radio collared, only one, was run over by a harvester. Your claim is that all these animals are dying in harvesters, right? Forget farming. In general, it is going to process and kill animals. Do you have a problem with that? I have no problem at all with that. So can I explain the difference between protecting crops and raising chickens and slaughtering them to eat them? Can I explain the moral distinction there? Go for it. So if we don't protect our crops from insects, we'll have mass starvation on earth because the insect will mow through those crops, right? And we'll essentially eventually will starve. There's a difference between defending property, defending crops, right? And taking innocent beings, breeding them and slaughtering them for an unjustifiable reason. I'm talking about protecting crops that we have a justification. Eating their bodies, we don't. It's unjustifiably. And what's stopping the insect from eating the crop? Pesticide. So you're OK with pesticide that are going to kill your animals through runoff and fish water. Dude, I am 100% perfectly OK with fish dying because of runoff from pesticides. Well, if you're worried about pesticide use, most of the pesticide has been used to grow. Once again, I honestly don't think they're out of their mind. If you're worried about pesticide runoff, 40% of the arable land in the UK is used to grow grains to feed to livestock animals, yeah? So if you're concerned about minimizing pesticide anyway, you should be eating a plant-based diet which uses way less pesticide because you have to feed a bunch of plants to grow a chicken. And pesticides are completely justified to prevent global starvation because insects will just mow through our crops without thinking, yeah, I want to protect them. I'm not stupid. I don't say, hey, come over here and come into my house and steal everything and steal all of us. It's pretty much taking care of insects. I think there should be better ways, but we'll never find better ways of protecting animals whilst you're eating them because you don't actually care to change the system. Vegans actually care to change the system and protect animals. And you want to nail us for pesticide of which animals use more of and you eat animals anyway. Animals don't use any pesticides. Yes, they do. You mean to use pesticides? No. Animals are there. Being fed products like soya, like oats, like corn. Yep, they're being fed an unnatural diet because we are now bulking them. Because we need to meet the demand with factory farms because everyone wants to eat meat, like yourself. Everyone wants bacon and chicken and cheese and f***ing beef because they're selfish and greedy and that's all they think about, yeah? Yeah, absolutely. And don't give a f*** about the animals having their rights by the way. Yeah, absolutely. You know what I mean? I don't think an animal has a right. At the end of the day, they absolutely do not have a right. Okay, and why not? Why should they? Because they are sentient beings. At the end of the day, we were all put here before all the arguments. This is how life has been. You go into a cage with a lion, have this debate with him and you tell me how you come out. Lions rape each other, they kill each other's kids. Why don't they f*** each other's shit, man? Exactly. Probably statistically speaking, there's about 10 rapists standing right in this room. You think it's okay? There's nothing you're going to do about it. I don't rape though. It's just the way it is. I don't rape. You know what you do? I've never met you before. But I'm just saying- I'm not taking your word for it. Like I said, statistically speaking, there are going to be rapists standing right here. There'll be murder standing here. You're not going to change it. You're not going to change people. That's what we are. Are you finished? We brought up as carnivores. We have teeth for a reason. What the f*** got to do with rape? I'm saying that just because something exists and we can't stop it like rape and murder or lie. You go have an argument and lie. Why would I f***? They're not a moral agent. They rape each other. They f***ing kill cubs just because they do that. That doesn't justify us doing that. You mean to kill their own offspring all the time. Is that okay? It's not okay. It's just the way it is. It's not okay. It's what it is. It depends on what country you're in, whether it's okay or not. No, it's wrong. No, it depends on what country you're in. It's f***ing wrong in every country. It's always wrong. It's wrong in your mind. Other governments would disagree with you. Killing kids is wrong. Killing kids and children is wrong. Yes, it happens every single day. And it's wrong and we shouldn't engage in it, is what I'm saying. I don't disagree that we shouldn't engage in it, but it does happen. So just because something... I don't care if... There's a difference between something happens and it happens and therefore we should engage in it. I'm saying just because something happens doesn't mean we should engage in it. Just because a lion does this doesn't mean we have to do this. You're saying we're natural carnivores, is that what you said? Yes, absolutely. And what makes you think you're a natural carnivore? Are you a lion, are you? Don't need to be a lion, dude. Like I said, at the end of the day, if they're there, we've been eating meat, meat has been... You don't even look like a carnivore. If you were put in a position where it became you and that animal and your self-preservation was there, you were going to eat the animal. The animal will lose if you start... You're in a survival situation. Are you in a survival situation? So you're okay with killing an animal if you have to survive, but not just a... I would kill a human if I had to survive. Exactly, so would I. Self-defense, shoot him straight in the head. No problems with it, all right? Dude, if you were on an airline crash, I would eat you if I had to. Dude, if it came down to it, I'd have no problem. Okay, I wouldn't eat you while you were still alive if you were innocent, but if you were trying to harm me, if you were trying to kill my family, if I had to protect my life, I would do self-defense, right? Once again. Now, what I'm saying is... If you're okay with eating meat to save your own life, then if you really believe in your principles, then die for them, starve to death. Well... If that's your principle, starve to death. Well, it depends on what... So all of a sudden, that pig's life is only important to you when there's lots of pigs and loads of pride. I don't want to hold it right now. When there's loads of variety and what have you... Are you upset? No, I'm not upset. Oh, really. Well, then... This is kind of fun for me. Okay, good. All I'm saying is that in a survival situation, we do many crazy things, right? That doesn't justify our behavior now. Once again. So you will justify your behavior if it's meant to survive. What am I justifying? Because I don't... You just told... Once again, you said, I will kill something if I have to. I said, I would kill you if I had to. Once again. Self-defense, yeah. If I had to protect my life... You're veganism is reliant upon whether or not you're hungry. Whether or not it's justified or unjustified, 100%. So if you were hungry enough to eat it, you would. No. If you had to. So if you were one of these nice, homeless people that were sitting here and it came down to a hamburger or starving to death, you'd pick up the burger. In a situation where I'm going to starve to death and there's a burger there, 100% I'm going to eat the burger because I'm about to starve. I thought you were going to say the homeless. I know, yeah. But we... Yeah. Well, I mean, at the end of the day, he might... Bro, are you homeless? Are you in a situation when you're going to starve to death? I would not put... No, no, no. I asked you a question. I asked you a question. Are you in a situation where you're going to starve to death? My... Yes or no? I don't hear anything but yes or no? Exactly. Are you in a situation where you're about to starve to death? No, not currently. No, then how do you justify killing and eating animals when you're not in that situation? Because I like the way they taste. Exactly. So because you derive pleasure from an action, does that then justify the action? I like pleasure, yes. That taste is pleasure, right? That's what I mean. Pleasure, dude. No, no, no, no. I'm here, I get one turn. I'm not going to change for that. And once again, there's not much in this world that doesn't derive from some kind of... I don't derive pleasure from the murder of others. But you do. I certainly don't. I would never murder, purposely murder somebody. But if it came down to... Animal is a perfect name for the murder of others. I mean, animals are others. Animal is absolutely not the same. Animals are others. No, listen, if it came down to my house and me having to feed my child, I'd eat my dog if I had to. You're talking about crazy situations. I'm talking about here in London, dude. You don't have to kill anyone right now. Any animal, you can just be vegan. I'd rather cut my foot off than be a vegan. I'd eat myself before I friggin' sit around and eat vegetables, dude. We've got vegan burgers, dude. Do you rather eat your foot than an vegan burger? Dude, so you... This is what makes me laugh about these vegans. You want chicken so bad that you get processed. And you make it look like a piece of chicken and then you need to just eat the goddamn chicken if you want chicken. You're talking about processed KFC? I don't give a... You're talking about we're the only ones with processed... Most of the processed food is meat. You're right. You have bacon and pastrami, this all processed meat. Absolutely. So who gives a shit about processed meat? I eat that when I want to be unhealthy. What I don't get is if you want to eat a piece of chicken, why make something look like a piece of chicken? Just eat the bloody chicken. I would tell you how I don't want to kill chickens. But I don't mind the taste of the texture and taste of meat products. You should eat it for 20, 60 minutes. So are you okay with eating the new now bio chicken that's grown in a lab? I wouldn't eat it for some reason because it's animal tissue. So I've creeped me out. I don't have a moral issue with someone eating it though because animals aren't having their rights violated. They don't be caused any suffering. Animal, let's get it. I think it's fine to eat morally, but it's a bit icky for me. I see no distinction when it comes to animals having more rights than humans. Not more rights, just right not to be slaughtered for a sandwich, not more rights. Once again, if... You didn't even want to have the basic fundamentals. They're animals. Once again, they should defend... You're right. And because we're a higher species of animal, we are therefore... We're superior, yeah? Yes. So we're superior, therefore we can do what we want to, aren't we? But we do. Peaks get gassed in gas chambers. Absolutely. And that's okay because we're superior? Once again, it happens. We're a superior species. We're a superior race. If the animal didn't want to be killed, then figure out a way around it. At the end of the day, we're taking it to the bodies. Every Dharma can say that about killing children. If you don't want to be killed, figure out a way around it. I mean, it doesn't justify killing the innocent, does it? Once again, there are billions of people being killed every single day. And you don't do it. You don't do it, do you? No, I don't. And you don't sit and try to justify it for an hour, do you? But I did have to bring animals to slaughterhouses and you know what? And when you were nine, how did you feel about it? The first time, it bothered me. The second time, it was a job. Sound like a hitman. Anyways... If a hitman pays me, then I'll do the job. Take care, thanks for sitting down. Thanks for being a good sport.