 I have a business proposal for you. A heist like no other. That's of course the professor from the Netflix series Money Heist. A show that on a lot of different levels connects us to my interview, my end of year wrap up interview with the very excellent Al Borealis from Forum Borealis. Now the reason that I chose that clip is not because Al is from Spain, in fact he's from Norway, but of all the podcasters I know if you're looking for one that embodies that calm, compassionate, intellectual toughness with a vendetta mask wearing rage against the machine sensibility, well in my opinion there is one like none other. I don't want to be telling something that isn't true. So show me where I'm wrong, but don't march out your sacred cow and say oh no you know it doesn't really matter he's kind of right on this and shouldn't we all just get along bullshit. Look I agree with what you said. It's incumbent upon us to flush out bullshit because there's so much bullshit there. It comes with the territory because most people who are open to that they are disillusioned with the huge main cult called society, the propaganda and the mainstream. So it's often like the less intellectual and academically trained you are, the more it's more like a belief thing okay I don't believe these so now I'm opening myself up to the counter but the problem is the counterculture it is not a soccer match where you have two equal teams and you have to like a tribalist choose one that's not what's going on it's one huge cult and then there's everything else. Stick around for my end-of-year wrap-up show with Al Borealis. Welcome to Skeptico where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers thinkers and their critics. I'm your host Alex Keras and today we welcome my good friend and I just firmly believe one of the best in the business podcasters Al Borealis we shall say from Forum Borealis and last year Al and I had a terrific time doing an end-of-the-year kind of wrap-up show which I had never done before and when we did it we said we're gonna do another one so here we are we're gonna do another one so that will be a tradition. I'd love for it to be a tradition so Al that's gonna be my intro if you want to do an intro of your own you can do that. Like you just announced at your end we're doing a mutual show today so except for this intro they're gonna hear the same stuff. Right on to that? That's my intro that's it. I kind of think as a general rule of taking over the world everyone should hear the same stuff. That's gotta be one of the foundational kind of things. Oh really? How socialist of you? I'm more in and let's have some things in common and then some let's face into it or out of it individually. I think that makes spice. It makes a difference you know hardcore fans they listen to both. Right on to that. It's like it's like if you're musicians it's like some of the songs are the same so-morrow-own. Exactly. Although I don't know as well as you do because you're a musician and I am not. I'm not stop saying that. Oh last year we ended the show with a song of mine. We did. Remember? So you're putting yourself under the gun you're gonna have to send me no original composition for this year. We'll see. But folks today we're gonna have this show right but not in a long time from now we're gonna do another one. I hope. I'm just gonna say it to the people also you're under pressure and that's next year. Skeptico is 15 years old. It's become a teenager man. Almost legal age and this needs to be marked somehow. So I've already concocted a plan. I'm doing the Mr Burns excellent hand movement right now and that plan is to go through with Alex what I would call the Skeptico journey. The Skeptico journey. It's a pretty unique show. I know you're gonna be bothered by this but don't interrupt. Just let me say it. Skeptico is a pretty unique show out there for different reasons. I'm gonna tell you when we have that show and the journey is incredible and I've analysed it. I spent a few months analysing the development and I think I have a better survey of it than even Alex do. Are we gonna talk about that Alex? And it's gonna be so fun to pick your brain and get your reactions and your comments upon different phases that you've been through and stuff you have achieved and done. So people you can look forward to that. It's gonna be a super interesting show. We're gonna it's like always when I have Alex on we talk about so many different subjects and obviously we're gonna do that here too. So it's gonna be a good show but apart from that and these and of the year I think I think that's gonna be like how we are gonna drive in the future. It's gonna be shows like this like a mutual show each year except when Alex releases a new book then I'll have an on for that. Well that's super nice super nice of you and I'd obviously love to do it. I do want to kind of interject here because for today's show what I want to make sure we do is kind of stay on schedule for truly doing an end of your show because I've been on a couple of these and everyone gets mired down in COVID which is understandable you know I mean it's like one of the biggest events of you know all our lifetimes you know looking back I mean it just is but at the same time there's other things going on you did a number of terrific shows pardon the pause there is all of L shows from 2021 and there's really I've listened to all of them at least in part so I go through your shows and I listen to parts and if I'm hooked in then I listen to the rest and if I'm not I move on and that's just how we all have to do it because there's so much great stuff here but I learned what I really love about your shows is I learn I learn I learn I learn I make tons of notes I go and check out what you're saying but it invariably winds up changing me and changing the shows that I do so what I thought my good man it changes your paradigm that's what I want to do right I just have to be a sucker for all your little cheeky little phrases paradigm expanding and all the rest of that stuff it's a cliche but it's true I want people and people often say when I launch a new show they say welcome to class or you know something like that it's like a pun yeah it's like a thing people think they're getting educated and that's that's really why I'm doing this so fulfilling so I'm going to be trying to keep us on schedule here because you and I can talk for a long time yeah so what I thought we would do is kind of start with going through your top three shows moments insights they don't always have to be this was the greatest show it can be just I got a little insight from this from from your perspective on your work and then I think I can weigh in too with some of mine as well so do you want to kick us off with this body of work that is your 2021 published shows well you start at the bottom that's that's the beginning of the year and then we do the same with you and then we go to predictions that's a fun thing right perfect well you know what we should do in addition to predictions we should evaluate our prediction from last year damn I forgot to warn you about that I don't know if I recall them because when we do predictions we have to be accountable for them well yes and no but their predictions they don't have to be I can't I will acknowledge that I don't have any precognitive abilities so okay what what would be give me give me one of your top three forum borealis moments from 2021 okay so the thing is what you watching now is the list of my the forum work from 21 and folks it's one of my most productive years yet probably accept 15 I think 15 or 16 as in the beginning I was super I don't know how I did it but despite having published 3 4 5 6 22 I think is out now I have like 15 to 20 unreleased so I suppose they will be 2022 when they are released even though the recording in 21 this problem isn't for skeptical because Alex usually releases a show right after he does it like this year I released a show from 2016 I think with Harry Cooper on the Nazi thing the Antarctica thing so it's it's a bit confusing like should I comment upon what I recorded in 21 or what I managed to release in 21 that's the question before I begin published published in 21 again okay so note worth this stuff we have Miguel corner and Gnosticism then you only have 3 L rain yeah yeah but I'm name dropping while I'm going through the list here North roots is pretty innovative it's a unique show you can't hear it anywhere else cracking reality I think is one of the best shows for the more science-minded people that was with Anthony peek I don't know if you listen to that one yes I had Anthony peek on recently as well okay not sure I buy into some of his understandings of brain chemistry and its relationship to these extended experiences but yeah he's got a lot of super great ideas I love the guy I've talked to him yeah I had one on the gender stuff with dr. glover eliminate nice guys Gnostic stuff again with Lawrence Corona number two there won't be released until next year but that's going to be one of my favorite scogliostries and release journals of Henry Sinclair if they are genuine again it's a scoop like the North roots to Freemasonry you won't find it anywhere yet although it's going to come as a documentary and books and all that stuff operation a dress deal with Oula one of your favorite Pentagon's biggest secret with Nick cook here hacking a Gregor's let's discuss that one this is one of my favorites it's a new guest Mark Stavish but me and him go back long way back I he wasn't that aware of that I made him aware of it then he connected the dots but I think this is a special show for several reasons first off the guest is brilliant he's a brilliant mind although I don't agree with him about everything in terms of interpretation knowledge etc but that's just an advantage but is he's he's unique in that he's one of the few people who has published a book on a Gregor's and my show with him I think I've heard some shows he did on that but I think my show with him is the best on that topic with him at least from what I heard and he recommends it to his students listen to that show take notes so I'm very pleased with that show and I want to look at the evaluation in my website the subscribers they can vote vote for the shows like from one to five and this is one of the most popular ones too okay why do you suppose that why do you suppose that is yeah I listened and you know kind of give people the overview the egregora thing and how you think it plays out I'd love to get level three on that because I think the the idea is such a fit for so many things that we see I'm just not so sure that we're not stretching the metaphor too far you know so it's a tall but it's an egregor it's a daemon as Anthony Peek says and it's like yeah something like that but we really want to lock into you know one definition of it that some guy has come up with so tell me what you think no no but he hasn't done this thing what he did I could have done what he did if I had the wits to do it because I have a similar background as him in terms of esoteric education from not I mean the very very early one and he just realized look there's nothing on this out there let me collect a bunch of info and get it out and it was a that accidental too he really didn't realize which what the waves it was gonna make in some circles which it did so I think it was a brilliant move from his part on his part and there's not that much of his personal speculation there is in in terms of how it is implemented how it is interpreted because you can have a very clear concept of it and a clear idea of what it is but from there to decoding the manifestation everybody is on their own nobody can say it's like this or it's like that this is this is it right so there I agree that it's gonna be individual but in terms of the understanding it's pretty mainstream within it's a not very mainstream concept and esoteric is not a very mainstream layer of knowledge but within that he's not being very controversial so did you catch that I did and I apologize I had my mic muted there as I was peppering a question at you so then why don't you tell us how what you think it means to you briefly and then more importantly how you think it's relevant to what we're experiencing now because part of the place that it launches us is that reality is always in flux the simulation hypothesis kind of takes merges with the agrigory in a very elegant way and nothing is really foundation that we can stand on and how do you how do you understand that relative to 2021 and what we're going through obviously what we actually didn't get around to discuss which we both lamented and that's to do with COVID I mean one egregore that I didn't see coming which has been building up for years and years and years is the you know here in Norway there are some differences to the American culture but one negative trait with Scandinavia is that they've had this scientism fetishism growing under the radar for so long and at some point it just became clear to everyone that you can't question vaccines if you question vaccines you're gonna be called an anti-vexer and you're gonna be discredited and everything so even health professionals science people whatever academic people who know stuff has to be very careful and that's before COVID and then the whole thing explodes imagine if COVID actually was like Ebola or something do you think look we're returning fascists from this little experience we've had now imagine if the damage of COVID it wasn't just infectious it was also yeah yeah yeah how does that how does that relate to the egregore well I'll tell you but we would have camps we would have concentration camps that would make how does that relate to the egregore how does that relate to the egregore so the egregore is a big pharma you can't question big pharma you can't question vaccines you can't like Antonofausche coming out saying I am science this egregore is there is an egregore that you've met you met a related egregore from your earlier skeptical days when you were discussing the skepticism it's a kind of the same energy but it's on steroids and it's specifically going into the lane of health or of x yeah that that kind that version of it or that member of that of that egregoric family and that egregore is super powerful now it's more powerful than anything else you can you can just look at YouTube or Twitter or Facebook the stuff you can criticize without being censored is now it actually helped many other areas because before the pandemic they were smacking down on so many different things that you couldn't touch now with this this has become the number one taboo so the algorithm is very busy removing people who just opinions anything about it okay I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in and interrupt and people hate that but to me this is exactly what I don't like when I say stretching the metaphor because we could approach exactly the same data points you're doing from any number of angles from the technocracy angle from the medical industrial complex angle from all sorts of different dimensions so when I hear you and Mark talking about egregores well first of all my understanding of egregore is something that is made manifest by this collective energy so it is this hungry ghost kind of thing we go looking for what was looking for me it's you didn't know that you were creating it but you were creating it I think there's an element to this that is happening right now but it would be at this metaphysical spiritual level we're not gonna be able to nail it down with Fauci and you know all the rest of that stuff and that's what I think we can bring to this conversation is kind of what would be the metaphysical implications as they relate to what's happening right now in terms of the where we're putting our collective energy and where it's coalescing and where it isn't and where it's all that kind of stuff do you have any thoughts on that you got about yeah and then we got to move on very important clarification so egregores doesn't have to manifest in 3d they normally manifest in a psyche in a collective psyche and so they can be met the metaphysical in in causation a kind of but but not necessarily in manifestation so just this thing that if I'm gonna write something on Facebook something critical to covid or vaccine or I may the egregore may kick in and I may be filled with fear for example inferiority I'm not saying that happens with me but I'm self-censoring because the egregore is making me aware it's a very powerful egregore the covid fear or the or the vax worship so these are manifestations of this egregore that is now dominating and there may be several and they may conflating and building up a bigger one but the thing is it's moving now in our culture it's moving now in people's minds and I mention Fauci or or social media just because it's a way to perceive this in earlier days in the old days if you're gonna judge the climate you have to go out in the streets right now we're sitting behind computers and mobile phones so that's why I'm using those examples of where we can see the zeitgeist how the zeitgeist operates but make no mistakes the egregore is manifesting in these vehicles too do you understand what I mean or was that to convolute it no that's okay so now it's my turn because I'm gonna take this yep I'm gonna take it in a different direction this my dear friend is an interview that I have coming up with Philip Fairbanks author of the pedigate primary and it's a political look at all this stuff and we got to talking about this history and this important history with Elron Hubbard Scientology Stargate but in particular the connection to the occult the esoteric to Alistair Crowley and to good old-fashioned I don't know why we call it American Huxterism but we think it's we proudly embrace the Huxterism that is in America so let me play this clip and then we'll have a little chat the only way to understand Elron Hubbard in my opinion and first and foremost as a kind of grifter kind of guy I mean he's a he's a scammer and he's very good at it and he's good at scamming people's money and he's moves in with Jack Parsons and the next thing you know he's fucking Jack Parsons girlfriend yeah and at the same time and he puts his give him his money and hey would you all now that I've got your girl would you also give me your money invest in a business give me some boats and stuff you know that's a great story sure Ron sure whatever you say Ron yeah and and you know so anyone who wants to reflect on that can say I know people like that I know people in both sense if whether you're the one being victimized or whether unfortunately you're the one who victimizes other people you know like I almost have to respect Elron occasionally because he comes from that like larger-than-life PT Barnum uh Huxter tradition that's so quintessentially American you know what's more American than PT Barnum I'm gonna take a bunch of rubes for their money it's just so it's so insane that like they were going to do a sex ritual out in the desert and they did I think this is how he stole his girlfriend I think because like initially Jack Parsons was gonna have sex with his girlfriend he's like wait Jack maybe maybe I don't have sex with your girlfriend and you could be the one who's like watching us and saying the stuff you could be reciting stuff while I'm having sex with your girlfriend who we will later embezzle from you and have you start a business so that we can steal you like it's crazy yeah so when he does go out and perform these rites and rituals under the direction of Crowley right because Crowley is in communication with Jack Parsons Jack Parsons reaches out to Crowley and says I'm your number one guy I want to be your number one agent in and you know uh Crowley from all accounts has a little bit of that hookster in him too absolutely yeah and and he loved Jack apparently I think that the that relationship ruined it because when he saw he's like no no no that's what you do to the other guy you don't you don't believe in that stuff you get the other guy to believe and you take his girlfriend and his money and his boat and that's that's the trick like and then you say abracadabra and you know or Ararita or whatever uh and and call it a day we're kind of dancing around this other aspect to it well there's two other aspects to it one is the CIA kind of big game stuff somebody's got to run the world and it ought to be us and his connections Elron Hubbard's connections there are undeniable as you said and he kind of wraps himself in this kind of quasi military maybe kind of stuff and we can get into all that but then the other part that I keep kind of dancing around I can't pin down is and you're not saying this but I think it's a misstep that a lot of people take to say oh okay then it's all fake no that doesn't mean that it's fake it doesn't mean that they were not attempting to or successfully connecting with spirits for lack of a better term in this extended realm that are becoming their partners in engaging in this and have some ability to influence world events and things down here are definitely to influence people this to me relates to the aggregate thing that I'm always struggling with it's Elron Hubbard is a huckster Alistair Crowley is a huckster there's a difference between them the difference between them yes but Crowley took it seriously Ron Hubbard didn't that's no no that's not the difference I promise you man no the difference is that when you start messing with the extended realm you inevitably invariably don't know what the fuck you were doing so the egregore thing if we want to start writing books about it and putting it into you know fancy kind of words around it we have to first and foremost acknowledge we have no idea how the fuck that extended consciousness realm works and whether performing ritual sex magic rituals works quote unquote or doesn't work or is more effective than Elron Hubbard getting in there and just partnering up with the CIA and breaking into the IRS and stealing documents so look Ron Hubbard from the get go was a swindler he was working for the alphabet super agencies and he built up Scientology based on actually not based on OTO material he didn't have much OTO material he basically used Rosicrucian material from Golden Dawn and from Armork now not just that but the occult elements in his stuff was from there like some of the techniques the philosophy was bullshit I mean it was low level bad quality science fiction that he probably came up with himself I mean it's not that creative I've never seen one example of Hubbard taking this seriously at least he can show it in writing or he can show it in having studied being a committed member of something a student of something like Crowley have Crowley has written a lot of stuff and been a committed student of something they are the same in that they use their ego to like dominate their surroundings the corn man call them what you want but I promise you Ron Hubbard didn't take this stuff seriously when he was when he went to but he was just a normal corn man Crowley was more of a metaphysical spiritual psychopath that's the difference in my view as for Jack Persons he was a sincere operator in this now you're saying we can't know when we mess around well yes or no it's too big for any single human being to you know know everything that's going on but we have tradition tradition is the accumulated knowledge of every human being on earth so in every field of society we are standing on shoulders the same comes to the metaphysical stuff so there are certain things we know about the metaphysical when as a we I don't mean google or whatever but I mean there are accumulated knowledge among human beings about cosmos about the laws and principles ruling cosmos and this is being applied now the sex magic thing is a small small small small segment within this huge world is a small segment and not many people are are seriously doing it but it gets the attention because it's sensational it's like it sucks up the air in the room and and people only go for the extreme stuff so it's not important in human history same as satan as we discussed this right when I had you on for evil so it's not a big thing in human history but it it gets a lot of attention and so um yeah you can manipulate egregors you can create egregors you can work with it deliberately especially when you are a person like crowley you want to reply to this no address your point or did I miss understand yeah move on move on next next from your list next from your shows you have the viking show is is northeastern and then I finally got Randall Carlson on when the earth nearly died and then I have who is number one which is people are wondering about that one what's going on it even got 11 votes not to being released yet it's crazy but this is going to be about some of the cultural underlings of foreign borealis and then we come to a show when it just goes forthright and game I want to put this out as one of my favorites why because first of I think it's the first time I have Joseph Ferrell back since I think the last time was 19 I don't think I had him on for 20 I'm not sure I should check that but at least it's a long time since I had him back and we wrapped up a very important thread that we've been working on the thing that many people associate him to and it was all all over a pretty good show it's going to get some great post rants from me when part two is finished but part two is already out there for my subscribers in terms of the show the interview itself just lacks the post commentary but yeah this is one of my favorites from but you didn't listen to that right because you didn't figure out how to to open it I know but I've listened to a bunch of the you know I don't have a lot of patience for the Joseph Ferrell thing I love in the pat in the past what he said about the forthright and game I'm super interested in listening to it but to me and you know this my hang up is you can't totally miss the mark on UFOs and say that it's you know Nazi technology with little midgets in there I mean it's just so flat earthy kind of thing that then it kind of destroys your credibility did you listen to the show I did with him on UFOs called the spider in Roswell I did and what I hear is like kind of a reluctant backtracking from Ferrell you know to get away from what he's saying but never wanting to fully get away from it say oops of course I was wrong of course that's doesn't make any sense and now that's projection you know he stands look it says you can't criticize Graham Hancock for suggesting that some of the alien UFO stuff is metaphysical you can't criticize Richard Dolan for saying that some of it is creatures that are not human beings but are physical you can't criticize Michael Shratt for saying that some of it is classified technology look it's you know this it's a huge feel and then we have a friend a mutual guest on who has his own spin what's his name we both had him on this year in a cook yeah and his take on it right so it's just puzzle pieces that adds to the whole picture and Ferrell's lane is the Nazi angle and the deep state angle that's just his lane there's no reason for him to do what Dolan does because Dolan and many other people already do it and they do it so brilliantly Peter Levenda tried to get into that lane but no Ferrell Ferrell's lane is is completely good and Ferrell and Hoagland both agree to a far extent about this like for example they are both open to the ancient civilization cousins being out there that's one and they're also open to potentially non-terrestrial sources for this be that of the planets dimensions time time travel etc so that it's all in their lore and you'll see it also in their writing so his book Roswell and a Reich he was just arguing that some specific euphor cases especially around the end of the Second World War has been up basically a sigh up to make us look the other way and I think that's completely fair and I know you disagree with this but but I have to say it for listeners so that they don't misinterpret what your take on on Ferrell's attitude is because it's not correct I see how you can perceive it like that but but that's not his message okay so I kind of hijacked that why don't you tell us what you liked about that show in particular because it's really what you've done there is really terrific because I've picked up bits of the trail and the Borman thing and I think it's totally spot on and I think that he's contributing a lot in a lot of ways so you know I'm just maybe going a little bit too skeptical on it so tell us what you what you really are valuing most in that episode yeah so when I get him back in the future apart from doing some religious and spiritual topics we're going to do economy that's where he really shines he's a brilliant genius on that and that's ties directly into the octopus the the circle the Dishpinna Odessa Borman brotherhood the Anglo-American elite it's tied and what I love with this show is that it's the perfect segue to discourse economy because when we come into economy we come into contemporary times more than anything and the rise of the the globalist corporatism and I especially love part two because first off I get to read to him something we call notes on the Borman conspiracy which is a collaboration it's the only thing you do this all the time in skeptical you could oh you used to do it you had a collaboration projects with your listeners well I've done it once on this so they add points to the timeline and I got to read that entire timeline to Joseph and he commented upon it that I really loved doing and also we covered 9-11 with him because he has his own spin on many things you already noticed a UFO thing I could mention other things but one of them is the 9-11 it's kind of similar to his JFK take it's not either of the above it's all of the above and so for the first time we got to cover that with him too so yeah I think it's all around it's a high quality Pharrell show for those who are into Pharrell those who aren't into Pharrell I think they'll enjoy part two I think part one is going to be a little boring for them because he's part one is very nerdy particular historical fact tweets that if you're not already used to this narration you may lose the big picture but the big picture comes back in part two so this is one of my favorites for for this year definitely great we can move on to the next show we don't have to discuss but I will move on in my in my own skeptical way and you know as people have listened to our conversations before you know know that one of the real total joys for me in talking to you is that we can have these exchanges and agree and at the same time disagree and see the settler and I call it a level three kind of conversation which you just we just don't get to and I think there's less and less of these things where of course we agree on the big picture of course we agree on the bigger picture now let's talk about this other part where we don't agree and that's what gets most interesting to me so that's right in that spirit the second clip that I would share with you from skeptical is the interview I did with Mitch Horowitz and I titled it who inspires you Satan or Jesus and let me play you a clip from that you know there were times when I was doing jack that I actually felt retarded like really retarded I mean it brushed my teeth retarded I rode bus retarded damn in a weird way I had to sort of just free myself up to believe that it was okay to be stupid or dumb to be a moron yeah to be moronical exactly to be a moron an imbecile yeah but simple jack thought he was smart or rather didn't think he was retarded so he can't afford to play retarded being a smart actor playing a guy who ain't smart but thinks he is that's tricky tricky it's that working with mercury it's high science man it's an odd form yeah you and artist it's what we do right yeah yeah hats off of going there especially knowing how to academy is about this year that's of course Ben Stiller and Robert Downey jr from Tropic Thunder and it's a clip that has become somewhat of a touchstone cultural icon because the full retard thing which is part of the clip that we're going to get to in a minute but I wanted to start with this long way around the barn clip on the first part because what he slips in there Robert Downey jr does in a very interesting way is the reference to the academy that being the academy awards which in our case serves as a very good stand in for culture and our popular culture and what we think of it and how we process it and if this intro is a long way around the barn which I assure you it is then you will have to stay with me for its link to today's guest Mitch Horowitz who is self-described historian of alternative spirituality and one of today's most literate voices of esoterica mysticism and the occult and he also happens to be a satanist now I'm not hating on him because he's a satanist as a matter of fact I like Mitch Horowitz oh at least I like him well enough but I'm not sure I trust Mitch Horowitz I'm not sure I believe Mitch Horowitz and I guess my doubt stems from this character that we touched on a couple episodes back named Colonel Michael Aquino who it turns out is somebody that Mitch identifies as one of his greatest sources of inspiration in that same article you're asked who are some of your greatest inspirations and you mentioned satanist Michael Aquino I mean Mitch come on this guy is one of the worst of the worst you know pedophiles uh no this is not true but hold on hold it if you say if you say it's not true okay I again it's not my saying it that's grotesquely inaccurate he died recently uh he had no involvement with pedophilia whatsoever I'm surprised to hear you say that okay back to tropic thunder you're serious you don't know everybody knows you never go full retard what do you mean check it out dustin hoffman ray man look retarded act retarded not retarded count two picks to your cards autistic show not retarded they got time to hang it's a force gun slow yes retarded maybe braces on his leg but he trying to pin himself next to anyone a pen palm competition that ain't retarded he was a god damn war hero you know when he retarded war heroes you went full retard man never go full retarded I love that clip on so many levels and maybe now you get what I mean I mean I can trust you just don't go full retard on me don't ask me to believe that Michael Aquino is not a worst of the worst satanist sex abusing probably murderer of children probably pedophile kind of person just go read his history it starts in 67 when he's in the phoenix program which we talked about on the last episode but that's just the beginning he's named in the MK ultra program he's named by people involved in the franklin scandal in 82 in 85 there's satanic ritual abuse allegations at fort bragg again Aquino is identified as being part of that and then the real ones that everyone points to and everyone knows about is that the prosidio child development center in san francisco in 86 60 victims came forward these are all little kids three to seven years old and they describe being taken to Aquino's house with him and his wife they describe the inside the crazy insane all-black all-red walls the altar the satanic altar kids don't make that up the evidence was so overwhelming that the police immediately got a search warrant and searched his house and what do they find all sorts of videotapes photographs photo albums all of it as we're later told but never shown is related to this child sexual abuse thing cut it off there and appreciate you listening to such a long clip but here's how i think that relates to exactly what you're talking about especially this year for me i've been more and more kind of dogmatic about this search for the truth and what our truth community should be and how we have to apply our own peer review scientific method kind of thing on folks and it really turns a lot of people off so if i say joseph ferrell has said this and it's total bullshit and it's provably bullshit and he hasn't reversed himself completely he hasn't come out i've had to come out and say oh my god i believe that i was wrong then he needs to be called out because you can't just do a mitch horowitz and not get the facts right mitch is wrong fundamentally about the history of michael aquino colonel michael aquino which leads us in a bunch of different directions of what does that mean in terms of us living under the freedoms quote unquote that we live under by a military industrial complex that is knowingly partnering with somebody like michael aquino what does that mean today in a covid vax or die kind of thing or vax and die kind of thing so a lot to process there but i'm really getting kind of my backup about the truth thing and about calling people in and around the truth community on being accountable for being for telling the truth and that doesn't mean that i have the truth it just means i'm willing to stick my neck out and say if i'm fucking wrong i want to correct it i don't want to be telling something that isn't true so fucking tell me show me where i'm wrong but don't march out you know you're a sacred cow and say oh no you know it doesn't really matter he's kind of right on this and shouldn't we all just get along bullshit yeah look um several things to address there first of i haven't listened to that show i'm gonna i didn't know you had a satan on or maybe we should just call them satanists rather than satanists but uh yeah i'm definitely going to listen to this show going to be interesting to see how he and deals with those uh yeah alex uh rebuttals there but um and and i i don't suppose you want to discuss satanism or or a queen michael a queen i don't know too much about uh those things anyway i know about temple of set of course and church of satan but here's the thing you can't you you're conflating it's two completely different things that's not what's going on here in terms of your first of you got this notion about him that i i'm trying patiently to correct but if you think that notion is correct then you need to we need to start with a source we can start with your feeling your interpretation your vague impression of what ferrell means or thinks or say or i said you need to point to something specific address that in terms of making him accountable for it and if i then actually agree with him uh i will uh come to his defense rather than play the uh devils advocate so when i'm correcting what i think is a erratic notion you have about ferrell's take on UFOs it's not because we all have to play along to get along it's not because i'm invested in his philosophy somehow i'm not we just get along very well uh it's actually because i think you're wrong it's the same reason i'm defending uh levenda when you uh which is a completely fair of you to think that he somehow is connected to the alphabet soup fine you think that i disagree from the evidence i've seen and i can argue for it if if need be and that's what i'm doing here with ferrell ferrell from the get-go listen i discovered him before most other people when he wasn't famous and i've listened to hours and hours he did of basically free rants because the interviewer she she just asked a question and then she shut up nothing like you and me right but i've listened to that so i know where he's coming from on these things and he's it's not like he started out saying all UFOs are Nazis and then eventually some are but you know it may be that some UFO no no no never did he do anything like that and i read his books which is actually should be the source for where someone's coming from rather than what we squeeze out of them right we're in a conversation because you know you and me we can say stuff in a in the heat of a conversation that may not be like the main philosophy default baseline of what we're thinking but like you say actually you say look we agree about the big stuff so when we flush out disagreements like this it's the small meticulous things and and that's where the fun is and that's where we can learn and move on and get some dynamic right so but remember we have a huge platform in common so it's kind of what's going on here again i just have to reiterate he never said everything as Nazis and he's never backed off the Nazi thing in fact as more and more people pick this up more and more evidence comes out so it's never been as clear before as ever that i mean the Nazi thing is so huge that even con man have taken it and run with it like you i don't know if you're aware of the uh these are real con man not like the two the stars academy who actually has something going for them the david wilcoke and korey god he's just one of of these swindlers but yeah yeah just i mean just a little man it's very very tricky territory there's no no it's so much look i've gone deep into that it's so much that's flushed out he is a con man and he's also um like most con man he's also psychiatrically unstable and he's just someone who lucked out in order to because there's so many naive people in this look i agree with what you said one of the things you said you said it's up we in the hate the term you using it so i'm going to use it now in the alternative field in the counterculture field in the independent media it's incumbent upon us to flush out bullshit because there's so much bullshit there and it comes with the territory because most people who are open to that they are dissolutioned with the huge main cult called society the propaganda in the mainstream whether it's mainstream academia mainstream media politics you name it right religion and so the problem is most people are not educated in order to find out how to you know source criticism distinguish so it's often like the less intellectual and academically trained you are the more it's more like a belief thing okay i don't believe these so now i'm opening myself up to the counter but the problem is the counterculture it is not a soccer match where you have two equal teams and you have to like a tribalist choose one that's not what's going on it's one huge cult which within itself has of course some differences and then there's everything else and in the everything else lane there can be put if some of them takes over we we're in a new cult right so it doesn't mean everything else is is called blanche so we have to be critical and picky and of course like it's an easy low-hanging fruit but you have the flat earth thing right we don't want that to take over as a as an extreme example so i agree with you buddy we need to clean up our own and that's when we you know discussions like the moon landing for example comes into play right you have very different views there some you and me would find cookie some we would find more realistic and you can you know go through the everything that's suppressed covid you name it you know you have in the covid thing you also have those who deny that it's a thing you had one on i love that show but that was 20 not 21 a guy who claimed he didn't exist and you just flushed him out like beautifully like no mainstream i could have managed to do well so yeah you know what i'm saying right i do know what you're saying and i think that you made a really important point that i want to kind of pull out and highlight there and that that's there's a certain tool set that goes with critical thinking that goes with logical thinking and it's related to the scientific method i just had a guy the other day tell me you know the scientific method is bullshit i've had a bunch of people tell me you know science is so corrupted now that you know forget it forget even forget the scientific method and full stop full stop injection i've had some of those on two one of them his name is alexa curious we had a heated discussion for two hours but go on well i think in many ways as we try and traverse this territory of the metaphysical and the physical which we want to do we want to have a kind of materialist consensus reality discussion we're both on zoom we're talking into a microphone you had salmon soup for lunch um these are kind of things where we want to kind of ground ourselves and say that's a common reality you know and then we have this metaphysical reality that are we living in a simulation is all of the are we just creating aggregorically topoly you know everything around us and we want to exist in both those worlds the point is the scientific method has some great tools for traversing the physical the if the world is out there and i can measure it so wink nod the world isn't really out there and you can't really measure it but let's pretend the world is out there and you can measure it and what you're pointing out is that there's a certain tool set that goes with that and yes we might want to avail ourselves of that tool set and i also agree with you just wholeheartedly about this process and cleaning up our own and being accountable and holding ourselves to a standard and with that you know i'm really okay with moving beyond uh joseph ferrell but i'm also big on you know kind of pushing people and aggravating people which i've done it's it's like i got friends in the podcasting world that have been around for a long time so you know if you're gonna have damien eckles on your show then you at least ought to ask him if he raped and murdered those kids yeah because all his other co-conspirators admitted that he raped and murdered those kids and he was convicted by two juries of doing that and he was never exonerated so if you're gonna have him on your fucking show just ask him and then we can move on and you know i've i talked to other people i talked to miguel i like miguel miguel hadamon and miguel said yeah i understand that i understood that's legitimate miguel had this eckles going on yes and and that's okay that's that's okay i didn't know he he still lived even i thought he was dead oh no no no he's writing books he's you know friends with all what don't you have him on then why don't you have him on i i i i guess i would i would have him on there's a line there that gets to promoting something with i the line for me is if damien eckles showed up at my doorstep and said hey i i want to be on i want to i want to come on and you know respond to what you're saying in a second in a second but the old alex the old alex he would totally have james randy on without respecting the guy i did have james randy on and i had a lot of other people on and that's a good distinction that's more for if we've ever do that show on the whole journey and the the distinction there for me is the evil distinction you know it's what you can you can argue that james randy is evil he's done so much damage yes and he might even have have done stuff to kids too oh yes yes i did not know that i did not know that at the time and i would have asked him and you know i was too soft on james randy uh at the time because you know we change we don't know yeah but i mean i i asked them some hard questions i just didn't really push hard enough i guess to to wind that back i was just really kind of agreeing with you on you know the methods that we must have for yeah recalibrating our methods for finding the truth so it was a kind of long long way around the barn whose turn is it now is it your turn to go next i just realized how we're doing this i thought we were going to do three of mine and then three of yours but it's one mine and one yours right that's what's going on here so that is my turn yeah yes then is my turn okay so uh and that's uh i will i think after this recording i i think i will manage to get two shows out before the end of the year which are not there yet but the last show that is there now is the secret of secrets how to survive death you know what maybe can i do what you did but this notion of the body of light part is the key yeah a lot of these groups just don't have that information no they don't and basically everything we do has to do with preparing for death and the most powerful ritual i've ever experienced in my life and i've been in a lot of ritual uh visited all the groups tibetans you name it and i was present at i've been so lucky as to be present at the death ritual where they where there was where we initiate who had died this death ritual is kind of uh connect with a gregora and help the dying it is creating our i mean i'm not giving details so i can talk about this in general creating a i think a portal like a kind of creating some kind of energy without going into details and then invoke the brother or sister who's recently departed and bind them into the center of the place where this is taking place and then uh what you call it when you get some extra thrust kind of throw them into the the path further so create this energy invoke the person and then guide that person further into the the other world and it's all done with lots of tools like sound is being made chanting recitations actions uh it's the most powerful like i i i i i was there with another from norway and he was in tears it was annoying actually because snot and every i had to hold his hand right and snot on it and everything so but okay but that's how powerful i was just blown out of my socks and and i realized oh my god man it's all about it's all about the death process so what you heard here alex i'm gonna i'm gonna point out a show called the secret of secrets but i was teasing it with uh playing something a quote from the end of another show with the same guy uh hacking egregores that we discussed earlier the reason is that i think this sums up what this other show was all about and people think it's hyperbole and the thing is um i rarely do i i should do more or i think you pronounced it hyper hyperbole i think i should do hyperbole we say but everyone gets what you're talking about yeah it doesn't make sense it should be hyperbole but the thing is i should do more hyperbole in my titles and stuff because i i usually go for poetic titles instead of to the point or even teasers but in this show people would think it's a hyperbole secret of secrets but it's not it's what it's actually called arcana or canorum the secret of secretorum it's actually what it's called that's how big of a secret it is and i think i i'm the first show ever disclosing some of these of course we're scratching the surface of course both me and the guest knows tons more than what's coming out in in the discussion but at least we're having that discussion in the open and i think this is one of my most important shows i think it's only surpassed you know when you say what's important so many filters or criterias you can work from right but if we narrow it down to spirituality and metaphysics and esoterics and if we also narrow it down to usefulness exclusiveness info you won't get many places then i say the only show i've done that's can surpass this is one of the my least popular shows and that just confirms like i said with chlisfai when i had him on you know we rated the shows we did together and we all agreed that the most popular is going to be the least important this is that but Antarctica show and the least popular i did with him was the most important which was the death show now the same here right so with a guy called timity hogan i did the most important and least popular show which was about the elements a two-parter but apart from that one i think this is the most important and exclusive in terms of informations so it's basically reliquing some universal secrets if that's even our word it reminds me of the word of the term public secrets it's kind of similar it's like you have people all over the world who knows about this from time immemorial but they all kept it under wraps and yeah say no more it's all about death man which actually dovetails with the aims of skeptical skeptical is a huge focus on death too only from a completely different angle no that's perfect because one of the questions i was going to ask you relates directly to that i think the occult the hidden the esoteric i'm super interested in the wisdom there because i think there is wisdom there but you're right i have intentionally kind of done an end run on it and my end run on death is near-death experience and reincarnation science because again we can kind of pin it down so we've talked about that a bunch in the past but i guess what i'd ask you as it relates to that really wonderful clip that you played is to what extent is it secret is it hidden when we now have thousands of people who've crossed that barrier and have found a way to come back and tell us about it and part two of that question is what do we do with the implications for technology there because it's clear that more people are quote unquote coming back i hate that term but that's what we have to use because of our advanced medical technology having to do with resuscitation so we can actually blur that line in a way that we couldn't and why is it that this extended consciousness is blurring the line with us as we do that what are your thoughts excellent point you're raising here i will answer it like this and what i'm saying now i never have said before i think so this is very important if anyone give any credence to my inputs open and sharpen your ears folks in esoterica there are two layers you have what people think of when they hear the word i won't even discuss occultism because that's big that's like the lowest that's like the crap that's like the pulp fiction the pulp fact of esoterica so i won't even go that's where you find damien angles and stuff like that but in serious esoterica people who are into it as a path in their life there are two layers there is the one that you will google where you will find books from leveling for example or aquarius or wooden books or organizations you've heard about everything from semi esoteric like yeah like mark's own institute of hermetic studies two more downright uh initiatory systems like for example the russian crucian order or mark now all this is really exoterica it's esoterica in exoterica so if you can google something if you can join something if you can just apply online for something it's not really esoteric remember folks it's correct when alex says occultism means the hidden but esoterica really means it it's a pategrist coin that term no i always said aristoteles i forgot but it was i think it was aristoteles a coin that term but it was describing the initiates of the ancient mystery schools of the ancient mystery traditions it was that which is never in the public so it is that which you are initiated into whether it's physically done by like a group or a ritual or whatever or the real initiations which are spiritual where you access a level of realization and understanding that is completely subjective that you cannot share in the objective world it's like where daoism says the truth that can be spoken is not the real truth the secret that can be revealed is not the real secret so that brings us to the second layer which the less we say about it the better but there is a very small very small i say a it's a word like just a not a fragment but a segment there's a small segment of esoterica still around it used to be the thing now it's just fragments and within those circles yeah you can google it you can find it online you can find it in books and that's where the real secrets are and so these people let's call them gods of mystery tradition gods or whatever are preserving something from the dawn of mankind and there are tools there are structures there are methods there are insights there's lore and the difference between say and initiate like parmenides in ancient greek who went into the other world and came back and brought something with them to share with us the difference between him and some random dude who a car runs over and then he's being resuscitated by Bruce Grayson is that both of them are having real experiences but when you are just a random person who stumbles into the metaphysical you have two probes the same with the ufo thing if you're exposed to it this is jack valet's big point if you're exposed to the ufo phenomenon you have no apparatus to deal with it so you will it goes for anything police knows this too that witnesses really the psychology of the witness is more important than what they actually experienced in terms of making sense of this is the same in the satanic panic or in children who have fantasy you know how can we distinguish between false memory and real and this is the same ufo phenomenon you're not equipped to deal with whatever phenomenon is manifesting there so you think it's virgin mario you think it's it's a spaceship from alpha centauri it all depends on what you already have in your mind in order to how you can interpret that the same with the ant when he encounters your foot right so this is what i'm saying also about the other world someone who's trained who has devoted his life for her life to this and deliberately triggers this experience it's a completely different ball game than some poor sucker who just ends up there and then is being brought back i'm not saying it's invalid or no value from what that other person but that's where you get people like the guy you had on the show he said it's all about jesus man oh if it wasn't jesus then he's bullshit right that's his filter so yes that's useful especially if there's commonalities across time and culture for for these kinds of researching then you can find objective factors but it's it's like the difference between primary school and university when you regard the nitsiates and their death experience and the random jondo or jendo you see what i'm saying i do see what you're saying and i think it's i think it's an interesting point i would if we're really going to dive into it i'd ask you to back it up because you know my entry or my continued interest in near-death experience is about the science and as close as we can come to the science and we already i already gave the speech that you know science isn't perfect and it's you know by definition it's wrong because it suggests that the world is out there and the world is measurable and we know that it isn't but i would turn that around and say everything that you just said is kind of dependent on some kind of consensus reality so the clip i would play kind of in response to that is from an interview from may of this year that i did with dr jeff long the near-death experience researcher i'll play the clip and then we can chat about it let's everybody think of one incident where katniss everdeen genuinely moved you when she volunteered for her sister at the reaping excellent example good what else oh when she sang that song for little ru oh yeah we didn't get choked up at that you know i like you better effy without all that makeup oh i like you better sober that's of course witty harrelson from the hunger games a clip that would seem to be because it is a long way around the barn from an interview with one of the world's leading near-death experience researchers dr jeff long who's compiled the largest searchable database of near-death experiences and who joined me primarily because i wanted to verify because i referenced it so many times the quality of the data in the database here's a short clip are you in any way scrubbing the database are you in any way taking out any references that might be offensive to someone you know if it's if they're satanic you know or this and that or i i don't think so because i even do n d e r f aliens i do n d e r f e t there are a few entries that come up it doesn't seem to me like you're in there scrubbing the database in this kind of cancel culture shadow banning you know we don't know what's really out there that's a great question alex the only change that we make to the entirety of what is shared with us is we remove references i mean they may dislike their doctor that they believe was involved in their life-threatening event so we remove names just to preserve confidentiality our overriding concern is the confidentiality of who shares we post everything that they share with us it would be an abomination to us to pull out anything that we didn't like or we disagreed with if they share it with us it goes up the real point that i'd like you to respond to about jeff long is we're trying to do what we can do to get at a data set so i kind of resist the notion that oh you know i'm doing my best there to say is there anything wrong with this data set how would we evaluate this data set which should match your data set right i mean this is the way that we would investigate this yes yes and it's interesting because science is doing the same as esoterica did see esoterica has known all the time that everything you encounter in what you call extended realm is dependent on filters those filters would be obviously cultural linguistic religious in the term of like what kind of set of symbols and notions do you operate in spiritually so there's a psychological of course even gender so and and that's what nea death signs also i see they say there are some things that are commonalities and there's some things that are subjective it doesn't mean the subjective thing is wrong or unreal it just means some things need to go through your filter if you hear if you hear a political speech let's say bernie sanders or donald trump or something ron paul your filter is going to determine what you're taking out of that someone who's a supporter of one of those would be great stuff man another one be you have a fucking you see what i mean they're all exposed to the same objective vibrations they hear the same everything they're at the same event taking place at the same time but they're taking different things with and that's the same going that's why darwism is one path and toll tech is another esoteric path that's why vajrayana is one path and let's say nosticism and other so you can't just do everything you can't ride a million horses at the same time my point is find a horse that actually brings you there and if you find such a let's do a better analogy it's all about the mountain let's go to the traditional mountain most people new hrs and you know flirting with stuff they are just dancing around the mountain oh let me try this path i'm going couple of meters up there and i want to try another one and they go down again and they never commit to a path so they never get anywhere oh i know everything about what's going on because i've been around the mountain five times i can tell you a million entrances to the mountain but they really can't tell you much apart from that superficial level now someone who actually determines to go to the top of the mountain and when he reaches the top by the way he he's past the clouds so he can see the sun shining bright now the higher up he gone he comes the more these different paths would dwindle into one path eventually you come as high that there's only four paths east north west south and the higher up you come the more you can actually not know just your own path i'm so high up the mountain that i can see other parallel paths i can't see the path on the opposite side if i'm from the south i can't see the north path but i can definitely see some path to the left and some to the right of me and i can even a device some people who are not on my path but on that path up careful where you're threading you may fall down oh there's a there's a hill there where you can find some food so the higher up i i come the more i can survey all the other paths too and only when i'm at the top of the mountain i can see all paths this is how you should understand the spiritual iterations in the world and this is what they are reinventing with science as near-death experience and and reincarnation they're trying to get data points that's valid to all and they're trying to also find what's commonalities and what's dependent on individual factors and last thing i want to say about this is remember who created science esoteric minded people created science they don't teach you that anymore in for example history of science or philosophy science they will only mention quirky weird factories when you if you are at a deep enough level isic newton was into alchemy and astrology for some weird reason frances bacon was flirting with this or that for some reason but the fact of the matter is that up until science was hijacked in the 1800 by materialists but they didn't just hijack it overnight it was a long battle but eventually they won they won over the royal society and different other scientific vehicles and outlooks and then it became full materialist and everything was perched but why did esoteric initiates create the scientific method and even scientific institutions and all that stuff because they knew this is the only way we can educate the masses the masses will never be enlightened people they will never be interested in these things that me and alex are interested in and trying to find the big questions or may never say never but certainly not back in the day and they didn't have the tools for it of the education so the best way to do this is to bring enlightenment that was the whole idea for example of rosa accrucianism we're gonna enlighten the reformation the renaissance the enlightenment all that stuff was brought about by the the enemies of the then ruling order which was for a long time catholicism or islam for that matter although islam was more open to enlightenment in certain periods of their especially in the ottoman empire and eventually also materialism that succeeded this spiritual hegemony so esoterics created it because they've been into science all the time they've been into spiritual science and as our tools better there was always physical science too like in the ancient greece ancient Egypt you couldn't distinguish between spirituality and science it was the same thing a mystery priest was also the one who actually measured a map or developed chemistry for this or that conserving the mummies or how when should we harvest or how should we navigate the seas it was all yeah it was practical applications of spiritual reality so those things where went hand in hand dualism came materialism came and somehow science got rubbed out of this truth realm consciousness realm and now it's come full circle because now we see and this goes back to this is a call back to what we started discussing today alex and that's that science has come full circle now to become a tool for lie misinformation deception illusion and that's why why we need to clean up we need to be truth committed and you don't you have to be fact committed in hard sciences today natural sciences but you don't have to be truth committed and we see this even in health science it's all about money propaganda power politics and science science truth and even facts meta less now so that's the problem when you remove the spiritual layers of science and you put it into the hands of of materialism and opportunists is better to say I mean it's all about power and control I really appreciate what you're saying I don't hear many people talking about this and that's what's oh it's just I just get charged up talking to you because this is so special to have that kind of conversation and I love your analogy I love your analogy of climbing the mountain and the trail backs and you know but I I'm I'm skeptical I mean I've grown into being skeptical maybe I always was but I'm inquiry to perpetuate doubt so my mind always goes to the counter example and I think sometimes that turns people off but again it doesn't turn you off which is wonderful because to me the counter example of what you're saying is you know I've been at yogi for a long time and people misunderstand that if you say you're a yogi then you're a yogi you don't have to have you don't have to show the the certificate you got from the weekend retreat that you did that doesn't matter all you have to do is say I'm a yogi and then you're a yogi but I've been you know a lot of different schools a lot of different teachers a lot of different learnings I particularly remember being in San Diego when I had moved out here and where I live is kind of a really fascinating part of yoga in the west because I live in north San Diego county which was kind of the landing point for a guy named Patabi Joyce and Patabi Joyce was really along with BKS Iyengar the two people who are most responsible for bringing the kind of physical yoga you know the kind that you can go down in the gym and do and all that and they were disciples of Krishna Macharya who said go send this spread this to the west and they did and I actually studied under a teacher who was BKS Iyengar teacher and actually brought BKS Iyengar over and then I studied under a teacher here in San Diego who actually brought Patabi Joyce over so I just kind of casually met both those people Patabi Joyce it turns out was sexually abusing his students which I later found out in my interview with my yogi friend who was sold into sex slavery to a satanic called when she was six years old but she was also sexually abused by Patabi Joyce I of course checked that because you don't want to just take somebody's word for that and there are now hundreds of women who've come forward and said that Patabi Joyce wasn't exactly on point with where he was doing that energy but back to my long story I remember being in this class with this wonderful Brazilian woman who was our yoga teacher and we had really vibed and we're sinking and talked but she had made some point about respecting this tradition of of the Indian tradition where I where this comes from and I was like in my a kind of classic kind of skeptical way say bullshit on that you know for all their their beautiful wonderful insights they're still marrying their daughters off at 11 years old they still have a culture that classifies people into these different cults that they can't get out of in these classifications and untouchability is still a real fucking thing so don't tell me about the flowers from this wonderful spiritually oriented which everyone says you know India is the source of all this fuck that shit have you been there have you been there no I have been there I have but great good for you but my point is I like fucking Jeff Long from Iowa who's collecting 3 000 accounts from nd ears that I can search I like Gregory Shushan from X from Oxford who's studying cross culture nds across time so 600 years of nds across times from across a bunch of different cultures western planes indians uh people down on the mason mexico as well as people in africa and on the islands and all the rest that shit and I say bravo to that and if that science lines up with what you're saying then I say bravo and if it doesn't I say you bring forth the evidence to show me where they're wrong show me where there needs to be the course correction and I'm down with it I I let me go back to where I started because I get in on rant and it sounds like I'm against what you're saying I'm not against what you're saying I think what you're saying is a beautiful beautiful piece of the puzzle but it's a clay pot that needs to be tested through the most severe heat that we can apply to it and the beauty of what western science has done now is it's brought us some new data points that we cannot just dismiss as well that single mom from Iowa who said that you know she saw Jesus we can just dismiss her account because she wasn't she wasn't esoteric enough fuck that shit I don't I don't buy that I mean maybe maybe we should but I don't know no we shouldn't I just said a random person who look a random person who takes an lsd trip and doesn't even know he's on lsd will still there will still be valuable lessons from his experience versus the old hippie who trips once a week right now let me address some of these excellent points you made I said there was two layers and the same isn't just true for western esoterica it's true for all esoterica so Alex when a long-haired Indian comes to California and sell and and accumulates a group of young beautiful women and exclusive cars and all that stuff he you already know what layer he's operating on is the same way you can go to a golden dawn group and the in fact this happened to an acquaintance of mine his girlfriend was being initiated into a golden dawn group and he wasn't there but the friends were and this she was so it's and of course this is a fake golden dawn is like the outer layer so it's like they rely instead of on real spiritual triggers they really rely on hypnotic effects and all that stuff so it's more like a theater esoterica but so she was done so psychologically vulnerable because of her mind was blown and all that stuff because of their hypnotic elements so he screwed her had sex with her the same evening which is a huge it's it's the same as your psychologist doing it or your professor or something you know what i mean it's such a betrayal so that so yeah that happens all the time and whether it's indians or in west look if jeffrey long that you mentioned and not to pick on him he's probably an excellent person but he's done good research in this field we can agree about that right no let's say it leaks out that he was abusing an intern does that invalidate all the work he did no you just have to understand that we're talking about human beings the human limitations this is why there's you have to realize that there's two standards so the real indian guru won't come to your doorstep in in goddam san diego you have to fucking climb a mountain in himalaya to come to his doorstep that's how it works that's why i'm saying this second layer of esoterica is very exclusive and it annoys people to no end in fact it annoys people so much the money some day i don't believe it exists because i can't get access oh i'll be probably just conceited elitists why can't they share it with me i can't google it i can't attain it so it's probably bullshit and others are more like romantic notion always probably g people those people are probably at the level of buddha and jesus and i better kiss their feet than they're probably telepathic no no no it's a human experience there's human limitations but i'll explain it like this alex if i was so lucky to be our guardian of a wisdom tradition and i knew you alex very well and i knew that you're an ethical person i knew you were a responsible person i knew you were a sincere seeker i knew you had a intellectual apparatus for it i would totally open a door for you to see if you went through it so that you could be become an initiate but that's how it works that's how it's been working since day one you don't just go to the town square and unknown that's what the con man do and that's how 99 percent of people are being swapped up by people like that acroly or whatever but the real but what they are faking the illusions they are playing out what they are pointing to exists but on a different level so they are taking the real thing that they themselves don't have access to because they can never qualify to to get there and they are making a muck version a con man a commercial version of that where they can gather all the you know some of the stuff this guru is saying you may find in some exclusive ashram maybe so i'm not saying there's no commonalities but i'm saying those who actually practice walk as they talk they do it solely because they have learned how to god and if one of these con men actually managed to get access to one of these small ancient groups that group will be corrupted and it will be destroyed and that's what has happened for thousands of years that's why there's so few around only those around whether it's individuals or networks or even organizations are around because they have learned how to guard themselves from the human limitations and if they don't if they go wrong if if they are like brilliant people and we are all faulty and and and the mistake is big enough it's tank it's sank you it's gone so um it just shows how important it is to so it depends on your standard most people are content with going around the foot of the mountain and smell a bush and walk a couple of feet and then go back and try something else most people have no commitment to go come to the top of the mountain but i'm telling you the more you climb whatever tools you use whether and and science should be one of the tools psychology to philosophy religion you name it whatever human knowledge insight experience to stand on other people's shoulders rather than reinventing the wheel the further up you will go and the harder it becomes the harder the tests the more you have to refine yourself you cannot get to the top of the mountain and past confusing clouds and just be bombarded by the radiation of the sun without refining yourself you have to your ethics your wisdom the so you how you you you you said one thing you said we have to be trained to critical thinking that's a part of it too and so if you're just talking science there are certain qualifiers that you need to achieve there but if you're talking science of life if you if you're not distinguishing out just a segment of life but you're talking about a path in existence in life then it it has to be all the human layers has to be refined as you develop and that means your sensory your body in terms of health your perception the way you're sensing things your feelings the way your your emotions work your psychology the way you're thinking and reasoning and thoughts work and your creativity your ability to go into the transcendental all of that stuff has to be refined simultaneously all of the time and it's damn hard man that's why you could probably count on a couple of hands how many people really reached it up at least that we can remember today but i'm saying the less known a guru is the more believable he is granted that he he is not just less known because he hasn't started out i'm not talking Ron Al Ron Herbert before he published stuff he was always a crook i'm talking about someone who's been in operation and nobody knows him go to that guy he'll teach you much more than the guy you can google you you catch my drift here oh yeah yeah and there's a lot there i agree with but we have to we have to kind of wrap this thing up a little bit and i think the best way to do that is with this predictions thing so maybe a minute to one or sneak two in there but what are your bestest predictions for 2022 so i have a two and a half prediction number one i think omicron may be godsend metaphorically speaking because it achieves what none of the vaccines ever even try to achieve which is bringing about herd immunity because as it looks now dr malone who invented the technology listened to his interview on the jimidore show he tells you explicitly you should never ever everybody knows this who but it's not scientists who's running this show it's it's political agenda and big pharma but you should never ever vaccinate during a pandemic apart from the very vulnerable and sick should wait until after when it becomes endemic like the flu now one of the reasons you shouldn't do that just one of the time to go into this full hour is that you are preventing the herd immunity but here's the thing we now know from research that the best immunity is as it's always been it's nothing new what we learn in basic school is natural immunity combined with this that probably that's probably why it originated in africa because in africa they are almost not vaccinated so their omicron allegedly comes from and it has managed to get to where dr malone said namely being very very infectious even more than the gain of function research result of original covid-19 and so it's very very infectious but it's much less severe and that means that when people get it they will be immune to future strains and past strains unlike the again the vaccine so this is my prediction is that if they are right that it is milder and but more infectious it may just be the thing that pushes people's collective paradigm over the top so they realize oh my god this is endemic not pandemic we have to live learn to live with it everybody will get covid sooner or later which means that we should deal with it as norway did recently and classified it at the same level as the cold and the in and the influencer and that means we cannot shut down society anymore because of that and so when people then even if it comes a harder covid strain the omicron has made sure you're immune that's my first prediction my second is i said two and a half that's because the second can go two ways so this either what will happen is that people will get so fed up with this fascism that's taking place now that they will rise up against it but we may need a little more time if we have more time because under here's the other prediction and that's that they will nail the evolution the development of things in the direction they're pushing it meaning by by forever to basic freedoms and civil society and you know a complete takeover of all channels of media and communication complete censorship complete corporatism and unfortunately as so often if not always it's so dependent on America on the USA which we the rest of the world hates because we have to wait for that done down broken down just crushed population to to somehow manage to rise and the only outlets you have to rise up see it seems is to become more and more extremism extremist in kind of a pseudo fascistic like there's two kinds of fascism playing out playing out in america there's the top down fascism which is the real fascism which is the corporatism the elites and then there's the bottom up fascism which kind of is a react it's a reactionary thing to that but it's the only lane people have to go and and even that is being taken away from them because it's being used as an excuse to smack down all sorts of political dissidents so it's going to go either further in that direction or the reaction from the people will manage to to kick back but i'm becoming more and more pessimistic look at australia man oh my god so that's my predictions and unfortunately both were related to kovat you know i was about to say i thought we're going to get through this whole thing without doing the kovat thing but i guess it's inevitable particularly when you mention it you're right i mean you can't talk about predictions for 2022 and not you know talk about so what i'll do for my prediction is play a clip first and this is an oldie but if people remember this from their truth seeking library in their head oh man go go revisit this on so many levels but it's an interview that was done by alex jones and i sometimes can get frustrated with alex jones but when i do i go back and listen to interviews like this and i remember that he has given us so so much so i don't know if he's co-opted i don't know anything like that but this is so uniquely wonderful and important it's an interview with erin russo shortly before his death and it's about his experience with nick rockfeller so with a very very elite guy who was trying to who was telling him hey look he told him that 9-11 was going to happen point by point and then he said what was going to happen after it and that we were going to invade afghanistan then we're going to invade iraq he laid all this out months before and then he goes and tells him that what do you care about the rest of those people here's what we want to do we want to control everybody we want to vaccinate he said chip them but it's the same thing we want to have everybody under our control and he says why he said you know you got all the money in the world you got all the power in the world why do you need that but that's the other part of the clip that i'm not going to play here's the part of the clip that that i'll play and then i'll talk about it was done to create a fear in the american public right so that we will obey what they want us to do and the fairy tale richard read the shoe bomber here's a guy who's six foot six ugliest could be i heard he smelled okay he sits and coach on a plane lighting matches to put a shoe on fire surrounded by people it's idiotic if you were going to blow up a plane you go into the bathroom you close the door and you put your shoe on fire you're not going to sit there surrounded by people lighting matches okay so i love these long way around the barn kind of things but here's my point you still take your shoes off when you fly and when people say that it's going to change or maybe there's a light at the end of the tunnel i just remind them you still take your fucking shoes off and the reason you take off your shoes remember is because of this one idiotic crazy obviously operation guy who goes and does this as Aaron Russo talks about so my point is the the the real only way out of this is love is love compassion and being that point of light being that gladiator for light and not hating on anybody and not hating on the evil that is behind this because that don't work either that's their game now you become one of them exactly exactly you become one of them and i think so many of us are one step closer to saying i'll make that fucking trade let me grind that guy into the ground and i think because i think good always wins that's always the way the story ends and because i think as our friend Miguel Connor pointed out evil always turns stupid and we see evil turning stupid right before our eyes i think that there will continue to be a light emerging from this and i think it will begin to emerge in 22 but i don't think it's going to come in packaged in the way that most people think i don't think it's going to be particularly pleasant because i think these guys have a lot of a lot of bullets in the in the chamber that they can fire that that we have to be aware of yeah well put so have we have we done it have we done our our job on let me brag i remember one prediction i made last year everybody thought trump was gonna pull it off but when you pushed me for ending i i laid out i love scenario thinking right so i laid out different scenarios you you didn't like it you wanted to me to stick to our outcome and i said he's not going to make it going to be biden i was right about that one and you didn't push me now so i don't have to you know evaluate the next year but the reason i think we should be accountable for our predictions is that if we are daring and it's our responsibility as hosts right if we are daring to make an analysis yes it's not precognition it's an analysis we should substantiate what it's based on right and and yeah we should we should point to a lane and and say in afterwards why didn't it happen like that or why did i think it went like that so yeah that's all i'm saying well that's a good one i think you should point to that of course he didn't really win i mean they rigged it in the most dramatic way possible which is kind of interesting but i think your your point is super you you totally got that prediction because the prediction was trump wouldn't make it biden would prevail and i think it's he did it was the incredible what they what they pulled up it was so you know i recently interviewed steven snider from recluse who you're going to interview on your show from the farm i haven't had him great i i love what what he said when i asked him that question because he's kind of a little bit more of a left-leaning guy and he said just what surprised me is how in your face that the rigging of the election was how obvious it was and i think he is spot on that's it's not the surprise that they rigged the election they rig all the elections it's just that they did it in a way where they had a hundred and six percent voter turnout in wisconsin and you don't usually get that you don't get it where it's reported you know but anyways yeah now it goes to the a bigger tendency i discussed this with steven schneider actually when i had him on the show is just not released to to neither the public nor the subscribers yet it's waiting with the 15 other shows in editing this one will be pushed ahead by the way but he said we discussed look he said the elites today are so stupid they're dumber than they were used to be and that's a point you and me have fleshed out earlier if you remember and so because i i said is it that or is it that just that they have now so much control that they're just being brazen about it they're not pretending back in the day they were pretending even though that we didn't have internet or anything there was a certain standard you had to to try to maintain like a not a believability what's the word but you know what i mean right it believability i think it's perfect okay so but they don't have that anymore is that because the incompetence is so extreme combined with the extreme power or if it is it because the power is now so extreme it doesn't matter if people know what's going on in many ways you you are you are excused for having that view because look at the assange case the assange case isn't about assange it's not even about wikileaks it's a it's about everyone else it's about if you even try to entertain the thought of fucking with us we're gonna screw you six times from sunday so deep that just a shell of a human being will be left know your place know your lane we have taken over it's done this and assange isn't the only one you have steven this lawyer in new york now is a don singer look into that case folks it's incredible that's the law system just exposes the american judicial system for what it is so i'm not sure alex and i want your input on this is it just the in extreme incompetence and stupidity and arrogance combined with their extreme power now because of technology and all that or is it that they just don't care anymore because they always i said to recluse i said to him steven i said to him look yes the elite is more inbred and stupid than ever but they hire experts that's what they always do for anything they want to do they find the brains you've talked about that too alex they find and certain things want it's going that direction so there's not a lack of brains out there and there's not a lack of opportunity to turn the brains onto their team and work for them that's what most of us do anyway right so uh yeah that's the big question what do you think i think you make a great point and it's well i didn't but i want you to say which one of those two well stupidity i think the point that you make is you can be stupid and hire smart people if you have money and if you own the printing press that prints all the money it kind of fords you a lot of opportunities but at the same time i agree that there's a certain sloppiness that i wouldn't immediately dismiss as a brazen in your face i don't care if you know it some of it just looks sloppy it looks like it has no nothing to gain by being sloppy i don't know why you run this operation and israel is the zionists are one of your allies and they become the most jabbed people on earth with more boosters than anyone else that i don't know how that fits into your did you really plan on doing that and uh the people in africa and brazil and these other countries they're not not so much india not so much you know was that part of your plan no that wasn't part of the plan they'll be able to recover and and do that but you know what i'm saying i don't want to get too far a field here because we've got to wrap this up but no i i think your your larger point both those points that are kind of intertwined with what you're saying i think are important is no they're not that smart but don't count them out because they can still hire some brains yeah they always turn to brute force when a manipulation game doesn't work yep what a sad note to end on well we don't know how the game gets played but we know who wins in the end and who wins are the people who stay true to the to the light to the light in their heart because that's the only thing that matters you beautifully said it earlier this exercise we're in is a preparation for a transition it can't be otherwise that isn't even that isn't even esoteric or metaphysical it's just fucking common sense how can it be otherwise how else would it make any sense so that's that's where we really come together you and i al and you know when you stay anchored in that kind of reality everything else kind of becomes a lot easier to deal with oh man and let's not forget this life we're living it's just a drop in the big cosmos it's just it's it's it was Shakespeare said life is a scene something like that yeah so let's not lose perspective on the stage yeah yeah so let's not lose perspective either that we are here to learn something experience something and what we take away from it it really what's matter that's why you and me are trying to peek open the door into the other side so we can get some reassurance of the bigger perspective that life isn't just it's not just one and one day it's many many days it's not just one and one moment or life it's many many so the battle is oh it's huge it's long it's so big and i don't know maybe gandhi is right maybe the path and the goal is one you can't distinguish that's why the means never excuse the goal in other words the meaning of life is the path itself an old cliche but but yeah i i think it's true beautifully said and maybe that's where we should leave it yeah my friend it's been awesome this will become a tradition it's so enriching for me what a great way to feel that i've wrapped up the year so thanks so much for doing this and happy new year you too thanks again to alborialis for joining me today on skeptico the one question i tee up from this show is what was your favorite skeptico or forum borealis moment of 2021 let me know track me down find me okay 2021 you're gone 2022 bring it down we're ready till next time take care bye for now