 Hi, folks. The original leader for today wasn't available. We've been trying to shift some stuff around. I'm trying to deal with the sick kiddo on my side. And I think all of her are you are you there? I am here. Yes, Taylor. All right. For those, let me give a quick intro for those that don't know. This is. Was the CNF working group call under CNCF. We're at this point using it as the call for the merging. Or I'll just say for the new initiative that's happening under elephant is the CNCF telecom. Work is transitioning. And we're continuing the calls for both, I guess, related efforts in this new program that we're launching here until we choose no time. This is going to be the last call of the year. And if you didn't catch as you joined this call is being recorded. You can probably ask to disable that Lincoln or anyone if you want, it's they're going to be uploaded to the CNCS YouTube channel for the CNF working group. I think that's fine for now. But we can decide. And. Lucina has posted meeting notes for this call. Normally, we let people please add your name and then any agenda items and then we get started. We do have a few topics related to the new initiative and what we're trying to do. We'll add the links to the elephant wiki page for some of the topics that we've been going over as well. Quick some quick announcements here. Upcoming events for those aren't aware there's been. An increasing number of Kubernetes community days. And those are popping up. If you're not aware, but you're interested. The topics could be many different things. So definitely could have networking telecom related to any of those. Some folks are asking for that sort of thing. And this KCD. Guadalajara is the, I think the next one. But if you look at the. Kubernetes community days at any point one could be pop up or and if you're interested in having one, then please reach out. I think the overlap between. What we're doing elephant with this. Cognitive telecom program and the Kubernetes community days could could get some more, I guess, traction from the community. The. Cube con cloud native con. If you're interested in having a co located event like we've had for the cloud native telco day, we've, we had four of those. Then please talk with Ranny and the elephant events team. To let them know that you're interested as well as if there's availability for sponsoring from your company. The one summit CFPs have closed. As far as I know, they haven't been extended a second time. Is that true? Ranny Lincoln. Yeah, that's I think it was yesterday. And yeah, they couldn't extend it because they need to have the community work on the proposals and publish the agenda. So that was. The latest, they could extend. All right. Have the. Elephant developer and testing forum see CFPs opened yet. To the best of my knowledge, not yet. I've seen some chatter about it in the challenge, but I don't think the page was set up for submission. But it should come up soon. Yeah, probably need to since those are, it's more likely that people are going to want to go to both. With the travel expense. All right. So let's see. The one summit of you though is open. And I guess it's going to be open. Until April. Is that what it looks like? For CFPs. Same thing for Kubecon. North America. All right. So does anyone have any agenda items before we go into some of these. You can verbalize them, add them to the chat, or just put them right into the document. If there's something you want to go over. I guess go ahead and check the PRC if we have anything. New there. Yeah, give me a second here. I'll do that. I'm not seeing anything myself. Yeah, no, just give me a second. I will move it over in a sec. We don't have any. We have a lot of issues, but I don't see anything new. Most of it's just kind of ongoing, smaller stuff. So I think we can go right into the other items. Okay. So blog posts. Did you want to make a mention on that one? I'll just pull that up there in a second. Yeah. So let's see the CNF. Working group. The latest white paper. That's getting some traction. We have some blog post and a lot of other mentions are coming up. I'm going to. I'm looking for Taylor. I'm sorry. Just looking for worries. So they. I just put a link to the. The actual white paper. All right. Thank you. And. So this is a, a, the. Blog post is. That's on the CNCF blog. And we were talking about. Ranny may be doing something for. Elephant. But being end of year, maybe we should look to publish something at the start of next year to get. Keep momentum going about the discussions around what we're doing with the. Program and I think a lot of the related stuff from the CSPs are in this. White paper. Yeah. Here's a link to the PDF. There's it's in the. Repo as well. Is up on this. Get GitHub pages. Okay. Did you want to say anything else Taylor about the blog or. White paper. I guess it's listed on this challenges to be solved. So the white paper is. It's a. And. This. CSPs that mainly were the ones that were working together as a group. These are the folks. A lot of the same folks that were working on the in GMN manifesto that was published in. I think. This summer sometime. And. It's kind of a follow up with. More. Trying to make it next steps and more details. And it's also calling out that. And there's going to be a need to. Collaborate and change from changes from the CSP perspective on. It's required in SLAs and stuff. So. Acknowledging. That they're going to need to do stuff and they seem to be. Wanting to brace that and asking for. Vendors to collaborate to. Meet in the middle. So that's what a lot of that goes over. And I think it's a. Good to look at for. A driver for the. This new program that we're. Looking at putting together. And continuing kind of what we've been doing in this working group. I dropped a link to the challenges and then there's also an asset list. That's going over the. Different working groups and work streams. Repositories with tools and a lot of other things we need to decide on. What will be. Directly usable and or I would say useful. If there's things that are there, but we feel like it's either. Out of scope. May be useful, but out of scope for the program. That's fine. We're just putting stuff together and then we can make decisions. I didn't add the next few so. I can stop there. I mean, if we want to. Go over any of the current challenges or assets all over. I'll let you. Take over on that lead on that and if. Who put in the review feedback on elephant presentation? Is that something. You're wanting to do Oliver or someone else. I think we had that we mentioned it last time on the last meeting. And maybe just to kind of bring everyone up to speed. I think Rani helped us out. A few weeks back. And so on the. Believe it was on the 6th of December, there was attack meeting. We had a meeting where the new initiative, this new initiative was, was brought up. There was some discussion on it. I think we're still at a stage where we're trying to move towards. You know, creating this under elephant. So for example, we're having this meeting still and we're making use of a preexisting CNC F meeting. And of course it's related to the topic, but we haven't established any, anything yet within elephant actually, you know, start to create meetings and, and, and starting to work forward on this initiative. So I think it was discussed. And one of the things, one of the outcomes of that discussion was that we were to, we agreed to come back. And we said the 10th of January. And we had a meeting there that we will, the idea is to come in with basically a, an overview of what this initiative is and what, where we are in terms of status. We did ask for an extension on that. So we, that date is going to move to the, the tech meeting on the 24th. So probably just correct that here in this. I'll do that myself. So, you know, those of you who attend or would like to attend, that's a, that's a, that's a good place to be to better voice your input and also just, you know, to hear how the discussion goes. One of the things that we'd like to do of course is this is a community effort. So ideally we're, you know, those of us who have been engaging have an opportunity to share our thoughts and put that as part of the presentation to the tech. I'm not sure that we're quite ready today to present that and start going through we could start to, you know, it's a draft form. There's a draft of it. I'm happy to do that, but I think everyone will have to understand it is very much in draft form. So, you know, bear with it all the messages sort of the key messages and things that we want to get across or not, you know, really refined yet at this moment we've got a bit of work to do still. And of course we encourage people who want to be involved in that to have an opportunity to do so. So that can happen of course to this meeting but also there are, you know, there are opportunities for those who want to contribute. There's a document so we can, you can add comments you can review and so I would encourage that I will share that link with, you know, in the meetings here in the meeting minutes. So other than that, if you have anything I know you've been traveling I don't know if you have anything you would want to add in terms of sort of the status of the initiative. This is of course been presented at both cloud native taco day cube con and then it was also discussed on the last DNT F. So I don't know if there's any anything any highlights that you'd want to share otherwise we can probably start to look at the draft document and just, you know, see, see if we want to bring in some other thoughts into this. I did miss the past couple of weeks due to me being on the APAC times on but I talked to Olaf a few days ago the tech chair, and you confirm what you just said Lincoln, but Oliver sorry. I think that the understanding is that you don't have to think of it as the one and done meeting. It's probably going to be more of periodic updates between this word group and the tech. So, yeah, it's important to have this initial presentation, but I think what will follow is maybe in each tag following tag meeting will be an expectation of some status update progress update which could be very quick and simple or if there's not too much development between attack meetings or if there are milestones achieved and it might be more substantial but Yeah, I think there was a positive feedback and the taxis this word group and these meetings is the right place to discuss this program and they just want to have some kind of progress updates or some periodic updates just to make sure everything is on track so there are no surprises say around the April and one summit time. Okay. That's great and as you say it'll you know periodic updates I think maybe one of the things that is at least not for me. Super clear is at the moment whether or not you know the initiative as it has been so far described is, you know, if we've sort of been given the the okay to proceed with that in other words is there are there still questions before work, you know, working groups. Let's let me back up and say establishing this as a project within LF and then are there remaining things, you know, I got I almost got the sense, at least myself on the last tack that there's still work to be done before we can decide how it will go. We're sort of a sort of in a task face tack. Sorry. In the task force phase, rather than being able to start now moving forward and creating this as a project but that's my interpretation. Do you do you have anything on that Randy that you would know that is that the correct interpretation. I think it might be related to some decisions formal decisions that the board elephant board had to make and that's done so I think between now and one summit I think we're good to go. Okay. So, and in your mind is that does that allow us then to start working with you know Kenny, for example, to establish, you know, meetings that are under elephant and, and of course start to consider things like we talked about in the past we have assets of course from the CNCF that we'd like to start to transition and bring those over are those all things that you see us doing now I just again it's kind of in my mind just an understanding that we are in the mode of making this happen versus still trying to convince you know what the, what the right setup for it is I mean they will obviously be continued discussions in terms of your refinements but I think we've, you know what I mean so far has been a cloud native native networking initiative under elephant, where we will start to leverage, you know assets from both sides we obviously will continue to work with that and identifying the right assets but it feels to me and then what you're saying Randy is we can actually start that work now and transitioning over. I don't see anything stopping I mean, it would be great to first present that to the tack before doing actual transitioning but. Okay. Other than that, I think there is no there, there are no barriers anymore. Okay. All right sounds good. Sounds good. Okay. So with that in mind, and I will share with you all a, as I mentioned a draft version, work in progress very much work in progress so perhaps the what I, if by sharing this a little early what I would hope is that there's a, there's, it's a call for for input and opportunity to contribute to this, rather than, you know, don't take this as it's the, the final version, there is still still plenty of opportunity to to participate on this. So, just starting off, we had a meeting, but it was last week, met with Sana from tell us who has been very interested in this new initiative and she is. She has mentioned to us that she would like to be part of the tack discussion tack presentation that we do. Again, this was originally we were thinking on the 10th. So I'm going to go ahead and switch that to the 24th. Where, and I have reached out to a number of people I will confirm that with Olaf but I have asked to just to have a set that for the 24th rather than 10th gives us a little bit of time to work. And to get back in the new year. And really what Santa really wanted to do is spend a little time in terms of preparing context for this initiative and why cloud native networking is so important. Not only to tell us but to other others in the industry. So if you wanted to do that, you know, a couple slides just to set it up and I think that helps prepare for the conversation about the proposal itself. So I will obviously not go through her slides. She hasn't had a chance yet to do that. But, you know, the main point will be wise, you know, why this matters in a in a summarized fashion. The rest of us have basically been trying to start putting ideas down on what this new network networking initiative is and I think we've probably heard this now on a number of occasions we talk about best practices we talk about a testing and we talk about certification. And I think hopefully most of that people have understood it but I think what we want to make sure is the tack has understood that. You may or may not agree with this we are working on sort of a very high level overview, trying to describe what some of the challenges are. Obviously we now have as Taylor has already pointed out we have some very recent and rather in depth documentation around from both the NGM and manifesto cloud native manifesto as well as the latest white paper that we were just talking about so that is obviously going to be more detailed. I don't think we have time to go through that and attack on that kind of level so I think what we're trying to do is and continuing to sort of bring up the high level. A high level view we have different telco platforms where you know Kubernetes is a cornerstone of that but there are decisions that are made in each of these vendor platforms that you know cause us to have some challenges when it comes to doing the interoperability testing. I'm not saying anyone's doing anything wrong. The point is is that those are decisions that are made and when we look at CNF vendors and wanting to show that those interoperate on those platforms. There's usually a fair amount of work that needs to be done. And on the top here. This really will talk a lot about cloud native networking at functions or CNF's we also want to make sure that you know we don't leave anyone behind because we're stuck on a term. So we're really talking as we've mentioned in the past about applications from edge to core so this is something that is looking to leverage the benefits of cloud native and be deployed on a cloud infrastructure. This is this is kind of the scope and the right hand side really is to try to reflect a little bit about what what are some of the challenges we're hearing. So we're certainly hearing from, you know, from the operator community that many of the CNF's or cloud native networking applications are still lacking in the desired cloud native characteristics and behaviors. And perhaps that's not surprising where you know we are on a journey but I think there's an there's a desire to see more of those behaviors as they start to to progress on these journeys. And we know that the validation of CNF CNF with the specific platform that is, you know, selected or being used by the CSP is a fairly time consuming and costly effort. And we also know that CNF vendors, much like the company I work for we're doing pre validations on a select number of cloud platforms and, you know, as a smaller vendor in this community, you know, I'll say that we typically are following very much our customers demands so when they say they want to run a particular infrastructure that's where we start to look about, you know, our validation efforts, and it is a very timely and cost costly exercise. There is today a number of different, you know, platforms available. There will likely be a number of those and I'm using this right now this is highlighted opinionated because what I don't want to do is I don't want to create, you know, the sense. Someone's doing something wrong what I'm trying to say is that there are different flavors, or I should say not only I but we're trying to say that there are differences. And there probably always will be differences in other words it will not be one cloud platform. And that's part of the challenges that there are differences and how do we handle those differences. And again, I've already mentioned that we have, you know, Kubernetes is a cornerstone to many of these but each, each vendor is making an even operator, you know, depending on what if they're using public private or the type of cloud they're using, you know, this will they're making choices that you can complete that fabric. So, you know, we if we're looking at this from a very high level, we know we have a number of different platforms we have a number of different applications that want to run there. And we have some challenges in terms of not, you know, interoperability but also in terms of displaying or exhibiting the type of behavior that, you know, that people are expecting from these. I'll just please, if you want to interrupt or just, you know, have a comment to speak out or or send a message on chat otherwise I'll just continue in the interest of time. The next thing is just this is a little bit of a recap what we've said before but we want to try to put this again back into some of this context so we're not saying we can solve all of the problems and all of the challenges but we believe we can make a difference. There's three areas that we have highlighted in the past and that's really been focusing on cloud native and Kubernetes native best practices and what we mean by that is for networking, helping to work through those areas where we still have challenges to make sure there's clarity on the best way or the best practices for addressing that with Kubernetes with cloud native in mind. And our focus then is really about driving greater industry alignment on what we've in the past referred to as foundational so we're really trying to say well what's the common denominator here it's cloud native and it's Kubernetes native. We know that there are going to be those opinionated differences, the further along we go, but we're trying to address the foundational. The second part of course then is testing and open source testing catalog that it can be consumed by others, whether that's a different projects within elephant, different adjacent projects like for example project Silva. I think there's benefits for the members of our community such as CSPs and vendors alike. I use the very specific example today the company I work for we actually have taken this open source testing catalog. This is, you know, exists under CNCF, and we have that as part of our CI CD pipeline so we're actually as we're developing a product and expanding on it. We continue to run these tests as a validation, you know we've already once been certified but that's really not this point of this it's as you expand your product and you add functionality and capabilities that you continue to do so and validate that you're doing so in a cloud native way. The second part of course is we believe that there is value in a CNF certification program or cloud native networking certification program that does not necessarily imply just one type of badge. We know there are a number of different projects within the within LFN that are addressing different aspects of cloud native networking. So this is something that we should discuss, you know, this will be part of the ongoing discussion discussion. For example, we've mentioned in the past nephew, which is really addressing automation and and lifecycle management for for infrastructure and cloud native network functions. They may as a community decide one day they would like to also provide certification, whether that be a CNF that is compatible with nephew or if there are infrastructure. One also show that they're that they are aligned to nephew. So the idea here is to create a an an industry leading CNF certification program. And the point of that is to really help drive confidence. So as the CSPs are looking to cloud native networking in their strategies. And as they start to look for applications that are going to provide the type of benefits that they can look to a an open source certification that will help build that confidence and allow the industry to drive further in the adoption of cloud native technologies. The next slide is really work in progress. So I'm going to skip that one for right now. But maybe a little bit closer to heart. Now we've been talking for some time now about what assets do we have. So on the left hand side, there seems to be, you know, some people who have been involved here understand it quite well. Others may not really have had full visibility and what was taking place on the CNCF side. So I'm highlighting three of the main assets that we're looking at in terms of bringing that into LFN. And that doesn't just mean lift and shift, but you know, as, you know, as baselines for something that we can expand upon so really there's three main areas the beating that we're in today, as Taylor has already mentioned has been used in a different way and then we're using it now, primarily to work through pressing issues and really look at best practices that can be developed we've published and best practices to address some of those issues. We have the CNF test suite, which is a catalog of tests that can be used by, you know, essentially anyone who's interested you can consume these tests. This test catalog run tests against your applications and really see how you're performing or how a particular application is is performing in terms of its cloud native is cloud nativeness. And then you have the CNF certification. You have to see which we have, I think, you know, there's a probably slightly under 10 today but there's a number of vendors who have gone through the certification process this is a beta CNF so our CNF certification, meaning, in my mind really this was an initial start the intention. I think there's around 13 tests that are required to be passed. And this is current day around 13 essential tests that needed to be passed in order to receive that award the idea was that this would evolve. There are certainly more tests in the test suite that can be used. I think the intention initially when this was started is really to allow vendors to start understanding where they are. And of course, over time we start to increase the, the level of testing in order to achieve that that that certification. And of course, we need only then but, you know, going forward we need CSP involvement there really to understand, you know, when we reach the meaningful level of tests that are going to start to drive this things that I mentioned on the slide before the confidence, you know, to be able to say, I'm this this CNF is actually going to provide the type of benefits that I that I'm looking for. On the right hand side, and maybe two other points just quickly on the left hand side it's been community driven so I think I just want to highlight that I think all of these, all of these working groups have been you know participate from members of the CNCF community have been involved there. As I mentioned from my own company we've assisted in terms of you know whether that's identifying bugs or testing and providing feedback for new tests. This has certainly been a community driven effort. On the right hand side we have within LF networking. I think the most relevant, and I don't want to cut, you know, say that there may not be other assets but I think the ones we have seen so far of most interest has really been around the market are to track the Kubernetes track there for for the cloud native infrastructure. This is also of course community driven. This is the application infrastructure testing and Hello. Hello, can you hear me. Yes, we can. Hello, this is me. I wanted to say something to bring something to the attention of this forum. And I say something. Yes, absolutely. Okay. Yeah, I wanted to comment that there's an additional asset that maybe is related with this proposal this initiative or come benefit of this initiative or the other way this initiative benefit from this other asset which is the existing project with the Linux foundation called Silva. The project Silva is intended to build a reference stack a cloud native reference stack for telco, trying to address some of the issues that you have commented. And within Silva, we have also we have two working groups one is more than two but there's two, let's say working groups for this purpose. One is the working group the development which is building actually this reference platform that is cloud native and follows the Anuket Rc2 so it's compliant with the Anuket Rc2. And the other working group is what we call the validation where we want to validate demonstrate that CNFs can work on top of this Anuket Rc2 compliant. So, in this way, we are promoting of course promoting cloud nativeness because we are defining this reference implementation and demonstrating that CNFs can work on top of this reference so somehow these CNFs are cloud native but we are also introducing a specific validation of how to demonstrate that these CNFs even before we start validating them, they demonstrate that they are cloud native so they follow all the principles defining the CNFs street also defined by Anuket. So I think this project this asset can benefit of this because whatever is defined here as the way to demonstrate a CNF is cloud native will be a precondition for Silva for validation in Silva. But this initiative can probably can benefit of Silva because in order to demonstrate that a CNF is cloud native is not only following some of the principles being able of deploying capable of demonstrating that it can deploy on this reference platform should be an additional requirement somehow for CNFs to demonstrate that they are actually cloud native. So I just wanted to highlight that we have this project and we could benefit one from the other. Yes, thank you. Yes, we are this thank you I appreciate that. And in fact I think you know and please correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe that within Silva as an LF your project that we are that they're you know the use of the CNF testing suite is actually one of the tools that you that you're using for those validations correct. Yes, we are using CNF test suite. This is what we are going to do. This is why I say we can benefit one from the other. Yes, I agree. I agree with you. Okay, thank you for that. Absolutely. And I will come back to that in terms of as we sort of start to look at what this proposal and in terms of, you know, an LF and project how that would look and how we think that benefits other projects like nephew like Silva. So thank you for that. Okay. And just, you know, from a reflection again, I've mentioned this earlier. So, you know, on the left hand side, you know, this has really been, you know, when you're using the test suite, the only requirement is that you're using a certified version of carbonate Kubernetes. So that's sort of the Kubernetes native piece of it. And then of course, you know, we're interested in cloud native best practices on the right hand side. Again, this is not meant to be anything negative is just simply saying that as you get closer and closer to an implementation. Then you have, of course, you know, there is the increasingly specialized and opinionated track, which is, you know, you're showing them that CNF runs on that epic cloud infrastructure. And so that is of course extremely important and valuable. I will. This was still work in progress. I'm going to skip this one from right now, but I want to show you the last which is I think hopefully everyone has seen something that looks similar to this and then and I think this will be the last slide for today. So what we have talked about when presenting this is a new initiative that is within LFN where we're bringing together assets from CNCF, but also LFN. And there may be others we are still in that exploring stage to understand what, what, you know, what assets exist that we can reuse. And of course, then how we position this in terms of, you know, different working groups. And right now, the, the idea is that this starts as, you know, somewhat similar to how we were showing within CNCF. You have a, you can have a set of best practices that are addressing the challenges. I mean, we can go straight to writing tests, but I think we first need to also understand what are, you know, what are the ways that this can be solved in terms of cloud native Kubernetes native. How do we do that? What are some of the suggestions in terms of best practices? Of course we one of the most valuable tools and assets will be a testing catalog and I'm not saying that this is the CNF test suite, but I'm saying that a testing catalog that we decide upon, which then can be expanded and consumed by others. And of course, the Luis just bringing up, you know, the things that you find as you're testing and working with Silva, we're hoping that that can be feedback into this testing catalog. So there may be additional tests that are valuable, irregardless of whether you're on Silva or Aniket or Silva infrastructure, if you're running on something else, you know, we're looking for those foundational tests that are going to be useful. So we can also look, as we go forward, we can certainly consider project specific tests, but I think I'm going to leave that out for right now I think the idea is, we're trying to be a benefit to downstream projects. And so that there's easy, you know, there's broad use of these, whether you're working with Aniket, whether you're working with Nefio, or any other project. The idea here is we have best practices, we have testing catalog that can be consumed and then we have a. This would not be a Silva certification, this would be more around this cloud native, the CNF, for example, is following best practices. Now what we hope is that we can expand the number of tests that exist today by working with other LFN and adjacent projects. So the things that you see here, for example, LFN projects that we can collaborate with to create a more robust testing catalog, and to support them as they desire, not that we are going to, you know, very much in the same way that Aniket assured has been working in the past if a project wants to have support in doing certification, we can help with that. And then what I, you know, probably could put these in a slightly different color, but just to highlight that there is value. Again, I just mentioned my thing in my own company as a CNF vendor. One of the things that we do is we leverage the existing testing catalog and we certainly believe that that can expand to cover more area, you know, have a greater footprint in terms of the number of tests that validate that our, our particular network is done in a cloud native way, and it's following best practices. So I think, you know, that really applies to, you know, whether CSPs want to use the testing suite as part of a sanity check, if you will, to also test certain CNFs and whether they're built in in a house built or their purchase from others. This could be a tool that they could be used. So this really is sort of the high level. Again, proposal as a standalone initiative that would have broad availability and broad value for a number of adjacent projects. So I'll stop there. I'm very interested in the last 10 minutes. If there's feedback, of course, I don't want you to feel limited to these 10 minutes. But if you're interested in helping out, please do reach out to either myself or to Taylor or Lucina. I think you've seen all of our names on the on the meeting minutes. Please feel free to reach out to us. We will continue in this Monday meeting, but to have all this presentation for the chat. And we would like as much input and feedback as we can get. So stop there and take any comments, notes that you might have. Yeah, looks good over one again, some feedback from my chat with Olaf. I think what tech would also like to see some sort of a roadmap slide or kind of what will be what do you think will be available and when it doesn't have to be very detailed, but to give the tech some idea of what, what is the, what's the plan and what's the expectation to have available. Again, especially between now and kind of the April timeframe. Yeah, good point. And thank you for that. We'll do that. We'll address that. I don't want to. I'll raise it now as well. I think there are a few other things that I think need to be, you know, they may not be specific to this particular initiative, but I think they may draw drive some other decisions for, you know, for LFN in terms of things like, for example, we know, and I mentioned here certification program, we know we have a certification program today under etiquette, but I think that has been somewhat. It's been fairly limited to and to the etiquette project and the etiquette efforts with this I think we're we're talking a bit more of having ability to go a little broader. At least mentioning that we should probably have a separate effort to sort of look at etiquette assured and what what we do with that. If we move forward with this initiative, as it is been described. So that's, that's probably another area, but I think more importantly is what can we do and how can we quickly start to show value for the community and I think that's something that that is really key to our success. Hi, Olivia. This is Juan Carlos García from Telefonica. I made a comment. And just to understand, as we said, in a silver plate, we are reusing practices and tools from Anuked Nifio and other projects. What you are proposing now is to take all these best practices, testing catalogs and certification from Anuked Nifio and take them to a standalone initiative, right. So that Anuked Nifio will stop doing that job. Well, the thinking is the thinking is that the the certification so I want to be very careful how to describe this so I think the idea is not so much to dictate to any project, you know, so for example within the remit of cloud native networking I think really looking at these and cloud native best practices and certification for that I think that should be within the remit of this initiative. What I'm suggesting though is to your point if, if Silva, for example, is making use of the test suite. If there would be a desire and maybe I'm sorry that I think I said Silva, if Silva was consuming the testing catalog, and certainly we expand that with with input from from Silva, that I think that's going to be great what I think then is as far as certification goes if if Silva wants to have a certification program. That is entirely fine. What I think I was pointing to more is that Nifio that is directly under LFN today. If they would like to have a certification program we will work with them and assist them again the idea is to avoid them having to, to create processes around certification when they're are already under the LFN but you know their processes under LFN that would help them. And there is deciding which requirements in which test that's very much going to be the decision of nephew so we're not going to, you know, take over or you know try to dictate that it's very much in terms of supporting those types of efforts. Does that make sense. I'm thinking about the future in Silva because I guess that if we are now somehow using Nifio and Anuketa's references and this certification work and these practices are going to be done in this new initiative but it's better to set the relationship directly with this new initiative instead of with Anuketa Nifio. Yeah, I just guess it. Yeah, I think let me let me give you another sort of idea. So, so one of the things that we feel like would be that will be beneficial for this initiative is that we are a bit free. You know, we remove some of the dependencies so for example, a, and I'm thinking about end users now so operators as an example, you know, an operator decides they want to use Anuketa or Silva that is great. But if they decide they want to use something else and they still are looking for cloud native. We want to be able to support that. So I think, you know, so in other words, you, to me what you're suggesting is that you know Silva is doing a CNF. To me that's really about like a Silva compliant CNF right it's a, or it is a Silva compliant, you know, implementation of Nifio that those I think we need it will probably need to work together in terms of how you, how we market that just to sort of people understand this is very specific to that platform, whereas someone may want to do the same thing but simply using a different infrastructure. Okay. And I think we need to be open for that that's at least my, you know, my opinion is I think, you know, we know that and you know that the operators will choose select different infrastructure that suits them best. And so we want to have, you know, we want to be able to provide value to them as well. And just a last question for clarification, Olivia, and this certification work that is done, you know, this new initiative is pretends to do is just schemes frameworks tools. It is not the process itself so I understand that the certification process will set up in the projects. The enterprise needs to do so. So I mean, this initiative will not certify will define schemes frameworks tools, but not and support other players to to set up the certification process is right or is my understanding run. I think that that's correct. And the only reason I'm hesitating is I think the idea again is to give you know, whatever has been when there is going to be a need for certifications directly related to this initiative. So I think just think certified CNF right so it's really cloud native and Kubernetes native native CNF certification. We have that process, I think if there are parts that can be consumed and reused for other projects to help them, then I think we would, you know, we're happy to do that but I don't think you know that will really be the decision of that or not. But I mean then you will have the process setup you will have labs for this certification and you will issue certificates for CNF vendors. Well, in fact that today, you know, and how it's been done so far in the CNCF is this is really, you know, I would say self, you know, self service in terms of you know your requirement is that you're running it on a certified version of Kubernetes. There was no lab provided so it's really up to you. I think this is where we can start we know we need to start thinking about those things but. So, so yeah, we wouldn't, we wouldn't necessarily, we wouldn't be looking to have a lab for specifically Silva or these others. I think that's, you know, we're certainly not there in the next in as any type of ambition. Okay. Thank you. Sure. Okay, I think we're just about out of time. I will include the, you know, the link to this if it's not already I'm not seeing the meeting meeting minutes at the moment for sharing but we will include the link to this presentation. It will continue to evolve so feel free to please, you know, look at it at comments if you like and, and again don't hesitate to reach out if you want to, you know, add some more comments and feedback to us, we'll be happy to have that. So with that, thank you everyone for joining and thank you for taking the time to let us walk you through our thoughts. Thank you. Okay. Thank you everyone. Thanks. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Bye.