 The People's Democratic Party PDP has stated that the expose by the former governor of the Central Bank of Nigeria, CBN Sanusi Lamedo Sanusi, which says that the gains made by Nigeria in 35 years were wiped out in the last five years, is an indictment on the APC-led government of President Mohamed Abu Hari. Now the PDP noted that the declaration reflects the position of the majority of Nigerians across the country. Sanusi had earlier released a statement which said the Buhari presidency and the APC have in the last six years only succeeded in destroying every sector of our national life. Their manifest incompetence, unbridled corruption, treasury looting, impunity, exclusionist and restrictive economic policies that have brought our nation to our knees. We're joining us to discuss this further. It's the Deputy Publicity Secretary of the People's Democratic Party, Dhiral Udayyemi. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you very much for having me. I'm happy to do with you this evening. Interesting. But the PDP, which is the opposition party to the leading party APC in this state, has jumped on this expose, as you call it, by the former CBN governor. Many would say that the former CBN governor is just playing to the gallery as maybe because he's no longer in the good books of the APC and Mr. President and that's why he's waxing lyrical. And why is the PDP jumping on this? This should be your job as your position to bring out these sorts of exposés if they be true. Is there anything that Sanusi has said that PDP has not said in the past? No. The problem is the people believe in the messenger than the message. Simply because perhaps it is coming from Sanusi now. People are taking it serious and they're looking at somebody who is an expert and who knows exactly what we are saying. And as a matter of fact PDP, as an opposition party, has said more than this. Not only now, we have been saying it from time immemorial. And now that Sanusi has said it, we applaud it, we endorse it, and we are calling on other Nigerians not to shy away from what is happening, the current situation we find ourselves in the hands of the APC, they should speak out. We have the likes of Reverend Asandia Atankuka, who has not shy away from saying this mind, but Bababa Sojo has not kept quiet. And we are calling on other eminent Nigerians to condemn this administration, not only condemn, but to appraise them and give them the mandate itself, which Sanusi exactly did in his comment. But the presidency has come up to say many times, many times, there's several publications from the government saying, in fact the president himself has given a pat on his own back saying that the country is way better now than it was under your administration. And you had more than eight years to run the country and that you run the country into the ground. And a pointer, some of the pundits who are on the side of Mr. President would say is that in 2015, Nigerians were so sick of the PDP and that's why they voted Mr. President in. What do you have to say to that? Have you seen any students that will score himself low? No student will ever fail himself. So whatever is coming out from the government is expected. They are bound to defend their inefficiency. It's normal. Some people are even employed to do the job, so we are not surprised. They are doing the job they are paid to do. But you and I live in Nigeria. We know what goes on. Is it in terms of security or the economy? Or even the development, the infrastructure that we can score this administration high? When people keep talking about 16 years of PDP, it's quite unfortunate that we are not appraising what is happening to Nigeria at present. Of course, let's assume Nigerians voted against PDP. APC is now there. Why do you keep referring to the era of PDP that is no longer at the end of a fair for the past six years? What we are saying is the era of PDP has been beneficiary and has been beneficial to Nigerians. And Nigerians have benefited a lot from that administration than what is happening here. And that is exactly what Nigerians are saying. That if you cannot take us forward, if the change is no longer forthcoming, leave us where you met us and where did they meet us? They met them where PDP carried the administration of a buoyancy. It wasn't as bad as this when PDP was there. Oh, but you accept that it was bad. So you're saying it wasn't as bad as this, but then you accept that it was bad? No, no, no. Don't misquote me. Don't misquote me. What you said, I was trying to react to it. Nigeria was extremely good. It wasn't as bad as this. Meaning that it was bad, but not as bad as this. Anyway, maybe that is the interpretation you want to give what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is it is bad now that Nigerians are now saying that this administration is the worst they have ever seen in this country. Is it just enough to criticize the government? And I'm not in any way saying that we do not have a right. Every Nigerian has a right to criticize any government. But my question is, is it just enough for the PDP to criticize the government? But then if we take a look at the PDP and the APC side by side right now, we can't really tell the difference because both parties seem to not really have anything to show Nigerians or any shred of hope that Nigerians can hold on to come 2023. I mean, both parties seem to be having problems. You're going back and forth. And really the same people that you're pointing fingers at are the same people who in the next few months are going to criss-cross into your party. So what is the difference between PDP and APC? And why should we hope that any good thing would come out of either you or the party in power? We are not in government right now. We have been out of government for the past few years. But you do hope to take back power in 2023, don't you? I'm leaning premises for my argument. What I'm saying in essence is the six years that we have been out of government have afforded us that opportunity to look at issues thoroughly and to plan and strategize against the misrule of the present APC with the assurance that if we are given that opportunity in 2023, we are going to do things differently. We have learned our lesson and we have started to re-strategize. And that was the reason why at the point in time, the chairman offered an explanation to Nigeria that if there is any way we are profaned at them or we have done things that are wrong, they should forgive us. But there is always an opportunity for us to redeem whatever it is they think we have not done right. And regarding the people that are crossing over to APC, you can be reassured that it is part of the cleansing exercise. People can no longer wait in PDP because the way PDP is being run now is that it belongs to nobody. It is the party of the people. It is the party that gives power to the electorates. And that is why we are giving that power to the youth, to the women, and to virtually all Nigerians that this is an opportunity for them to build a party that we correct the anomalies of APC. Well, you didn't really answer my question because I did not ask about those who left your party to the APC. I am saying in a few months you will have people leave the APC into your party. So what cleansing are you talking about here? Because those same people will cross over to your party and be very eligible to run for offices. They will still be the same people who will work with you in your so-called strategy to redeem Nigeria from the claws of the APC. And so I ask again, what is the difference if the same people who are in that APC and that you are complaining about today that are mismanaging the country, now cross over to your party. Like you always point fingers at the APC and say, oh, if you cross over to the APC, you become holy or something. But it is the same thing, the same rule that applies to you in the PDP. So what's the difference? Why should we have hope whatsoever that you are capable of changing anything come 2023? Shouldn't we be looking for other options? Unfortunately, you are not going to bring people from Ghana or from Africa to come and run Nigeria for us. It is we the Nigerians that will run it ourselves. But those Nigerians don't have to be in your party today. I'm coming, I'm coming. If people who are politicians from APC or from PDP are the kind of Nigerians that we have that will run this country, and equality is the game of number, we only can do nothing about this kind of a situation other than to encourage the political party to stick to a policy and manifesto that if you are joining us, if you are giving us a mandate, this is the program that should be executed. That's the only way to go about it. There's nothing you can do about people crossing capets on daily basis. It's very hard. Hold on, Mr. Duran, how about coming up with a clear cut ideology for your party so that whoever is coming to your party sticks to that ideology and knows that if you are in the PDP, this is our ideology. Just like every other country has an ideology except for Nigeria, and that's why we keep having this cross-captain. So if the PDP is hoping to make a difference, how about the talk of an ideology, a clear cut one? I just mentioned it, and perhaps you are using my language to ask a question. I just said that the PDP is a reformed political party that has now drawn a program, a policy, and an ideology that will be given to whoever is joining us, either from APC or for our press, that if you are joining us, this is the policy of the party. So that whoever is representing the party will not make that mistake again, and PDP can become a formidable political party. And I've just mentioned it now, and I imagine that while it has been difficult for a third force, a political party to come up or display APC and PDP is the fact that in Nigeria, Nigerians don't vote for an unknown party. We have other political parties in existence. It's not only PDP or APC, but ask anybody who is condemning people in PDP or APC to form a political party or to come together. They can't succeed with it. Why this is so? That is the kind of the nature of Nigerian politics and Nigerian politicians that we have. So nobody can be done for that. And so we'll continue in that vicious cycle and not try to change it. Now again, I'm going to ask that question the third time. Maybe this time I'll be a bit more clearer. I'll use, for example, the U.S. and the U.K. They have the Tories who are the Conservatives. They have the Labour Party. They have the UKIP. They have the Lib Dems. They have, and these people have clear cut policies. Now if you belong to the Lib Dem, you obviously are against migration. If you are a Tory, then you are a Conservative and you believe you are obviously like a Republican in the U.S. who are anti, who are pro-life, who are against abortion and all the things that the Liberals stand for. But when you tell me that the PDP is going to have a clear cut ideology and then they will tell you to do some things, I'm sorry, that's not clear cut enough for me. I don't understand why I would vote for you because you told the person to do something. I would rather ask you to wait because very soon we will be having our presidential candidates. As soon as we are able to present somebody to Nigerians, we will come out with a clear cut ideology and policy which will be presented to Nigerians and which we give what's assurance that in 2023 we are going to win the presidential election. So what I'm saying in essence is we have used the last six years to study the situation of Nigerians and in Nigeria and to come up with policies and strategy in such a way that whoever is going to govern Nigeria from PDP, we follow that to the letter so that he or she is not going to be a misrepresentative on what PDP stands for. So why not wait until that time? Okay. Well, Durant Udayemi is the Deputy Publicities Secretary for the People's Democratic Party. Thank you very much for speaking with us. We appreciate it. Thank you very much for having me. Great. Well, thank you all for staying with us. We have come to the end of the program today. But before we go, we'll take a look at the roundup of discussions we had this week. The last election was not really an election. It was a big scam. It's a big electoral scam, you know. It was not a real election. What does that mean? People came out and voted, even though there was some drama in the numbers, the people came out and casted their vote. So what do you think was a big scam? What does that mean? There were goats and sheep and dogs that were involved in the elections. You know, people brought up all sorts of things. Yeah, I'm talking metaphorically now. So it was just a big scam and too many issues, too many issues. I don't want to open a can of words, but it was totally illegitimate. We saw the President having, moving in presages of people like the governor of the river state and the leader of the Pissachewan district who are under arrest. And then a lot of money watches was dropped into. Elections are expensive everywhere in the world. But this is the problem. That is the problem. So the crowdfunding you're talking about will not work because even if there is a candidate and a candidate that people trust and doesn't belong to any political party, people can elect crowdfunding for this guy and make him, make great money for him, for him to contest the election. One of the greatest problems of this administration is nepotism. Before the Senate and the House of Reps, the National Assembly passed that deal. We are aware that some, not an elite, had meetings with the caucus of the National Assembly from the north. And the message was that protect the interests of the north. It's rather ridiculous that we should be talking about protecting the interests of a section. And that played out in the throwing up of the 30% of profit of NNPC limited for oil exploration in the frontiers. And the Niger Delta people who produce about 80% of the resources of this country for so many years have been badly treated. And what Mr. President has done, as we have said earlier, is a clear message to us, the Niger Delta people that how we feel and what we say do not matter in the scheme of affairs of Nigeria. And so it's a message we have received. And not too far from today, the Niger Delta people will also send a message to Nigerians. In Kogi State, we've been living with all these full-time people over the years. They've always been with us. But they've been with us in every other state of the country. It means that if some people are now criminals among them, it's easy when you walk with the leadership of the fuller needs in your state, you'll be able to see out those that are criminals among them. Let me give you, let me give you, no, let me tell you this. Let's use, for example, Kaniff State. Okay. Kaduna State, I beg your pardon. It seems to be a kidnapped haven right now. And so they keep doing it time after time. Let's also look at Gavnozulum. You're telling me that a Gavnozulum is not working with the fuller needs chiefs in his state. You're telling me that an El Rufi is not doing the same. You're telling me that all of these states that are experiencing the banditry over and over again, that they do not know that they should be liable to these guys. Are you saying that the fuller needs men in those states are incorporated, which is it? Okay. I would not be able to speak for those states. I can only speak for Kogi State. What we are doing in Kogi State is to work with the leadership of the fuller needs in the state. I don't understand what the reference points to younger generation would be. We're still, we're yet to recover from what happened in 1993 as a nation. We're yet to remedy completely the ills of that anomaly. We're yet to walk away from the problems that otherwise that process, that tune to a election would have been solved. No matter how much politicians or politicians attempt to rewrite history, history will stand tall. And that's why some of us are very concerned about the great singing of IBD, the great singing of the Maradona, the great singing of the man, the media called the Iwujanis. I think what we must note here is, and I said without fear of what we lost, critics and without a good vocation, that it's time to call his fate by his name now. Maybe he wants a good closure to his fortune in this space, but that's a different thing. I disagree with politicians singing his praise. The last election was. Well, thank you all for being part of the show. I hope you enjoyed all our packages for this week. I'm Mary Ann Ako and I'll see you next week when we return on Plus Politics. Have a great weekend.