 Good afternoon, everyone. It is June 14th and this is the site subcommittee of the elementary school building committee. We have to the extent they're available we've invited the full committee to attend, should they want to so I will keep an eye out. Seeing we have a quorum. I'm going to call the meeting to order first making sure people can hear and be heard. Rupert. Yeah, I'm here. Paul. Present. Phoebe. Hello. Hi Phoebe, Ben. Okay, I see you unmuted Ben, but I'm not hearing you. And now you're muted. You're unmuted. There now, now you're visible. But can you hear us. So what, what do we do all hope that. What is he hope that he can reconnect Rupert are you in the same room or different rooms. Yeah, I think he's plugging his headphones now into a different into a different laptop so it might work. And it says he's connecting to audio. Can you hear me now? Yeah, yes. Okay, so, and today there's a broad set of issues related to site. And I'm going to turn it over to news go and what we're going to be updated on is meetings that have happened beyond the subcommittee with the athletic teams and with some around the site on the site layout on the playing playing fields, the community fields, but also the playgrounds. And we've had some very productive meetings and Donna, I believe Bill Brown is here because he's part of the overall layout and has been part of all the playground and layout. Correct. Yes, thank you. And Bill, I, I don't know if you can turn on your camera but anyway, Bill Brown is with browser dinner they are a landscape architect for the project. So they are involved, everything, everything site and including playground and everything. Bill, can you hear us? I can hear you. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yep. Yep. Thank you. I am turning this over to the Dinesco team to run it in any fashion that makes sense to you. We have two more people both Tammy and Alicia said they could make an afternoon meeting so I'll keep an eye out for them if they can join us or not. I am going to share my screen then and since we have had numerous meetings with various constituencies. And it seems like just about every aspect of the site is changing in a little way we're just going to go through those meetings and the elements of the site. And give an update and then a preview for the next meeting when we actually have those designs incorporated. Again, Kathy, I will ask you to allow me to share. It's my other function. Master, got it. You should be able to now. So beginning at the beginning of DD we starting point with the value engineering changes incorporated from SD some of the very first comments were to revise the site in terms of the drop off loops and main plaza so that is being incorporated into the design and that feedback came from the public and the site committee itself. So we are. We did make this area larger, we are going to incorporate by cracks, and just an overall design of that area is ejecting to move the vehicles away, and then we have some continuing meetings that we are setting up with our consultants to, you know, make changes to the geometry. Turning movements, bike and pedestrian circulation is all going to be incorporated in the design updates so some geometry changes to the plaza and the loops will be shown in the next time we meet with a fully developed site plan. So we also got some feedback on the athletic fields to the north of the school itself. We met with Ray harp and Recreation Commission, the Department of Public Works, people who use the fields in town and got their feedback. We will have a follow up meeting scheduled next week with Gilbert and DPW in terms of infrastructure that we will be providing we've gotten sort of comments on what would be incorporated, and what we should include the base project for a comfort station attached to the what we will do to the site in terms of making sure DPW can access the fields in terms of curb cuts and where that would be located. We also got comments on the requirements for storage of people use the field so whether it's a container or something like that, there will be an area set aside, just so that the people who will be using the field can use it fully to the extent possible within the project. As part of an earlier site subcommittee meeting, and then in meetings with Tammy and the school administration, we are moving in the direction of consolidating the two playgrounds and to one place surface area with space around it that can serve the function that this rectangular play area served in the past as or in past iterations of the design. So there would be one board in place play surface larger than any of the existing individual playgrounds. But it would include play structures at either end for different age groups and swings. We had a fairly detailed meeting with Tammy about what should be included. And then we also heard reference for multiple parties about just because I was playground in Belchertown, which is the photo shown here so like this playground there will not be fences around the playground or play area north of the heartscape play area. There will be age appropriate play structures. Plus area in the middle or depending on how the layout goes for there to be free play on a soft surface outside of the fall zone and safety areas for the play equipment and swings. And then one other comment that we did here is that swings are very important. There will be a couple of groups, including inclusive swings at either end of the playground. So that is going to be incorporated design. The next time we meet we'll have a plan to review at least of the area itself, if not the equipment. Yeah, Tim, if I could just jump in just just for everyone's benefit, we will be going and looking at different playgrounds and around this is, and these were concepts and ideas were just want just want to make everyone understand this isn't final right so this is just the beginning of the playground discussion, but it was great just to confirm that consolidating and that by pushing the play equipment and the playgrounds further into the site that fence is not required so from there will continue to further this conversation and design. We also received comments about the layout and location of the full size basketball courts and half size courts that are part of the partscape recess area. Half courts will be turned to face each other so full court game could happen at recess not necessarily fully striped court like the other full size courts but the baskets will face each other. And then the full size courts will be adjusted a bit further here to be parallel to each other as we continue to work by the site. So we had a good meeting with Jen Reese about the outdoor learning program and what needs to be accommodated. There was a good discussion about the program for what we currently show on the site plan. There was a learning classroom with the shade structure and then there the other learning opportunities the cultivation beds to be pollinator garden and the forest for garden. There was some discussion about moving the classroom, the outdoor classroom if you will away from the garden beds because both of those could be in use with different classes. There could be a time and then, you know, it could be distracting or a little confusing to have them have close proximity so we're looking at adjusting the site so that the shade structure is a little bit removed, you know, and to make sure that we accommodate for recessive so that's happening so some of these elements will be moving around but we have confirmed that we are accommodating the program. So looking forward to when we develop the site plan with all of these comments in mind. As Donna mentioned will be out in Amherst July for a meeting of this meeting and we'll have the new designs sort of overlaid on the existing conditions so you can really get a sense of where the elements are located. How large they are what the adjacencies are and how it occupies the site as it exists now how far you will be from the existing building and where these place structures and amenities will be. So that was sort of a brief overview of the meetings that we've had the elements that are changing in the site plan and we just wanted to really open it up for further comments and what we want to incorporate as we move forward and any questions about any of those elements. We're a nice small group so just chime in or raise your hand, you can do it more formally. What while we're waiting I have, I have a question about basketball courts. What is, I live up in North Amherst and we have a mill river recreation area that has two full size courts and what I noticed the other day Paul when I was out there, the half court. There's two semi circle half courts. It's attached to one of the full side courts, though for a continuous surface. Between the two full size courts there's maybe a two foot or three foot strip of grass. I'm just whether whether that's a good design, whether there's something downside to it. It's Tim, if you needed to do the outdoor classroom. If one of the courts was near, you know, if you think of them swiveling around so I don't. I haven't noticed that before because I play tennis at me or wherever I don't play basketball. So Paul, I know you know more about basketball than I do so it's a question. Because I just saw a somewhat different configuration. Again, really rely on Ray harp or recreation director for his informant. The other thing up there they have eight foot baskets instead of 10 foot baskets for the smaller one so I assume that those half course or those half course regular size baskets or eight foot baskets. That has not go ahead. They could they could decide that. Ben is raising his hand on this one hi Ben, because I know you are a basketball player. Right. Yeah, I was going to say they're adjustable over there to this the two on the side for shooting there. Those are adjustable. Yeah, they go up and that's what I was going to say Paul they go up and down. This is just I went over to look at them just because we're staring at this. Okay, so get Ray, Ray harp and anyone else who is basketball. So it was as I said a question and an observation rather than a suggestion. I just I like all the things that you've identified. Yeah, go on, go ahead. I like all the things that you've identified Tim and I appreciate that you've talked to all the people who should be talked to and heard from and listen to and seems like you've tried the best you could to accommodate that so. So I appreciate that and I thought the other insights on the outdoor learning space with the as price is really wise one because you have conflicting uses there potentially so. Good job. I had a question about, I know that we've received a lot of public comment on the athletic fields and sizing and all that and I'm wondering if that has been looked at or talked about or anything like that and then my second question was. I thought that we had received a really fantastic sort of comment. And of course I had it in my mind earlier about who sent it in about the direction of the parking and affecting the concrete area and all of that kind of stuff and I'm wondering if that had been looked at or talked about all because I thought they were at the very least in my sort of lay person perspective interesting ideas. That was Pam Rooney sent that in. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Responding to the two questions in reverse order. So we did get Pam Rooney comments and they are very insightful. She suggested angled parking which and one way drive lanes which could narrow. And reduce the total amount of impermeable surface and with that reduced costs somewhat, but the site. And the parking is designed for, let's say maximum flexibility with angled parking, you can only go one way and park efficiently there if you narrow the lines there is no flexibility in turn of. Getting around someone who is possibly not getting all the way up to the front of loop and not following drop off procedure, if not strictly at school hours say there is someone who decides to park at the athletic fields here that would totally block the drive lane so the comments were all thoughtful and well received but we are moving forward with the most flexible site design possible because we have to acknowledge that not everyone follows the signs and if you design it thinking that everyone will you may at some point be disappointed. And then the meeting with the users of the athletic fields. They did have some good comments on layout, all of the amenities that are going to be attached. Essentially, we are providing the largest area possible within the constraints of the site. We discussed the skinned softball infield which does, you know, limit your flexibility a little bit. But we also discussed, you know what it would mean to actually expand and not just costs and complexity but there are hard limits in terms of what land setbacks and to expand the athletic fields. So we're actually replacing more than 5000 square foot of lens that might not even be permittable. So, there was a good discussion but the actual configuration of the fields themselves the lines if you will, are up to right harp the recreation department users of the fields and the project itself is just providing the maximum amount of space that it can within the constraints of the building using the school and all of the regulatory setbacks. And PB, I just want to, you know, should be rest assured that when we're getting, especially the kind of detail comments they go directly to the design team. And I usually get an acknowledgement that they have received them so it's not, you know, in an inbox. Yeah. Oh no, absolutely and I figured that I just when I had, when I read most recently Pam's comment I was like, you know, that's a really interesting thought and so I wanted to I assumed that it had been at least talked about and all of that kind of stuff and I wanted to make sure that we, you know, that we were hearing sort of what the response and how that went and all of that kind of stuff because I think I just want to make sure that the loops get closed. No, no, I agree and and Tim provided some specifics that I forwarded to Pam on on the logistics of it so it was, it was a full circle loop because I also thought, oh, never would have thought about that. Right. So my, I guess my question is on, I'll do the cost question when you come and talk to us more on the full meeting but also when we're walking the site. If we're moving the two playgrounds together to be consolidated and making it somewhat larger for some of that extra space. So my question is going to be does the total amount of, what do we call it poured in place is that the right word, I call it rubber, you know, the soft surface does that diminish it because that big space that says play right was $240 to $170,000. I mean it was a big price tag that you had separated out. So just, I don't need an answer for it now but it would be good to know that because it's part of the SD design estimates and if it frees up some money may be able to go to the playground equipment budget the field amenities budget, you know, somewhere else so it's just, it's a future looking question on, or if the canopy for the outdoor learning space wasn't included, you know, I'm just looking for it's it's all related to the site and if we move from one can we be reusing the money or saving the money I'm not saying we have to spend it if we save it yeah. Yeah, I think I think Kathy instead of. I don't think at this point we can really get into okay well we saved 500 square feet therefore 500 right. Let us just rerun it there's some grading implications. I don't know how the place surface, the port and place place surfaces are going to be that big, just combined so maybe a different shape but the intent there is. Margaret she's going for a walk outside was like sorry. So, you know, I think it's premature to be saying that but you know what we do know from from the conversations is that it will certainly help consolidate the play areas right so we're not creating to combining the play equipment which right now all we have is a budget so that to might be changed. I wasn't asking for specifics but just to keep it I know you're keeping that overall because there was also a question of how much Phil goes on the athletic bill, you know just, you know, if, if things kind of even out that would be not a bad thing, you know like we've already our goal is to have it reduced but but I think I think Bill would and Tim would probably kill me if we committed to some kind of number just yet so. So the one other thing I heard during particularly the discussion with Jen Reese was simpler was better in terms of she sent some pictures. And, and I can put them in a side pack of seating areas being logs, you know, so, you know, fun, movable, or, or either around one when you sit on top of it, or a big log where you saw off the top and it creates a log bench. At one point, and I this is Paul this is also for you. We talked about if we are taking down trees at Hickory Ridge, Dave Zomek had said maybe we can save if they're potentially usable at the site, you know, and so that's a discussion that the town or some of the public movements we had. So I just, my question here is, when would you need to know that you have logs available in in the design, the DD phase, or is that farther enough in the future that we can work on. So that that's the question. Place to cost and also design, and are you buying benches and outdoor seating, or can they be created. I can answer the question with regard to the logs and the trees and the benches. I think that there is not a whole lot of cost savings in terms of benches versus reusing logs for seating, because in order for a log to be used and turned up right. It needs to be cut, it needs to be finished. It needs to be waterproofed and then it needs to be dug into the ground. I think that in general terms there's not a whole lot of cost savings in that regard, and by taking a log and sort of sawing off the top and then using that as a seating area. Again, there's labor involved in doing that. And the complexity is such that you may save some money but not a whole lot of money and doing that. With regard to the logs and the branches and those sorts of things that may be coming off site or on site. I think we need to look at the trees that are coming down and get an estimate of what we think that we can save as part of the removal and demolition. And then we should see if we need to supplement what we have on site with what is off site. But that really doesn't need to happen until you know part way through doing the construction drawings. And just we have done some of that work at Kendrick Park, the, you know, Alan Snow tree warden did take some of the trees there and craft them for some, you know, landscaping materials and things like that just as a recollection of the trees having been there before. So, I think that is something that you do, you can do that actually during construction even almost. Yeah, so I think the question is, is it prudent for us to just carry a cost for it now. Until you have a quantity or commitment, or would you like us to remove it. It sounded like it's kind of heavy lifting, but you've been there before and I know you had some volunteers saying this would be a great thing to do so we would just need your direction whether we just carry the simple seating as Jen was requesting as part of the cost and then we can just kind of keep that in the back of our mind. Yeah, I think I think you should keep the cost there as if we had to purchase it and then. Yeah, we'll alert the tree warden to say, think about this. And he's very, they're very creative with how they handle things. Awesome. Thank you. Alison, welcome. I just want to make sure you can hear and be heard. I can. Hello, everybody. Two days to go. I'm doing my best. Thank you for letting me join at this really strange time, but thank you. I had an opening I could get into here. Great. Alison, just, you know, rather than go back through this, if you want to, we will we have the meeting on Friday, but I'd be glad to talk to you separately or, or have Tim run, you know, at a time that works for you just a quick series of pieces that have changed maybe the most important one, Tim you might want to do the playground areas, just so Alison can hear that part, because that was a meeting that. Yeah. You're muted Tim. Thank you. The playgrounds. We talked with Tammy and from some input from previous site committee meetings. The open play area and the structured playgrounds will be combined into a single area without fences with the playground in Delta town as an example of what it could be. What is not shown here and this design is on corporate is the free space outside of the safety area for the equipment and things are but you know that one consolidated area versus the three spread out will, you know, allow more efficient use of the site, a more inclusive feel for the playground and address some of the concerns that we've heard over the course of supervision. One of the concerns you. Yeah, that was the major one that we heard when we were able to speak to Tammy. So, any other I know Rupert you were able to be in a couple of these staff meetings but any other comments on this, because I, I also like it to Paul said that the changes made sense, and this is what will be coming out of still as as recommendation recommendations or potential changes to the full committee. I just like to mention for those people who weren't at previous meetings. My concern about how we talk about year round use of the playgrounds. So clearing snow and ice we can't really use the icers on that surface. So I think it's important that we don't have expectations that that we can't meet. There will be plenty of times in the winter where it's covered with snow or it's just too icy. And I think we need to be upfront with that so that we don't disappoint people later. And if we all turn into Miami then we just won't have to worry about it anymore. I'm sorry I just want to make sure I understand it. Rupert are you saying that the playground surface underneath the structures would become icy and they wouldn't be able to be diced. Yeah, I mean, it's a challenge to clear snow from a rubber surface. You know, I don't think we can use plows snowblowers might chew it up. So we're talking about a lot of work by hand. And even if you stay on top of things, you get a bad combination over the weekend or whatever you get ice build up it rains it freezes. And it's just important to realize that we're not going to have 180 days 185 days of perfectly cleared playground play. And but we could use sand or something right. I don't think that will work. The sand doesn't actually melt the ice. It gives you a little bit of a traction on it until the sun shines on it and then the ice starts to melt the sand goes down and the ice reforms on top of the sand. I want to follow up on this. It is true that there will be snowy icy days. Snow does melt faster on the rubber surface that it does on other colleagues grass cover, and the surface will still be soft when a turf natural will be hard. But that being said, Bill, can you offer a little bit in terms of the recommended maintenance or snow removal. Yes, Rupert, Rupert's right. We, you can't really plow it or use snowblowers on it. So what normally happens is, and it's similar on synthetic turf fields as well is that there is some heat build up with the playground rubber surface and it does tend to melt quicker than some of the other surfaces. But but also realize that all around the school. There is asphalt play area. We need to have that area cleared for fire truck access as well. So there are a lot of asphalt play areas that will have painting on them in games and you could even clear where the basketball courts are for play as well. But with regard to the areas for the play structures. We really can't put equipment on it and motor to remove snow. And can you use a you can use a broom you could you can to the extent, you know, you can brush it off. I mean, if it's really nice. Yes. So that Paul that would also be true of Kendrick Park and grow off right now that we that I mean not not that we had a lot of snow and ice this past winter but that the dairies that weren't the rubber surface were accessible. Yeah. Yeah, so we don't, I don't think we remove snow from our park areas or playground areas we just let them melt. Yeah, Kathy and obviously, Mike is not here but I think him recognizing the complexity of utilizing those areas was why he was advocating for that field that could be have snow removal whatever but back back to Rupert's comment just making sure everyone were managing expectations. Yeah. So I have a question about like, I mean and maybe this is just continuing conversation that doesn't need to be but what do we do. What do we do now, when the playground is on grass like some of the cracker playground and that kind of stuff like, how would this be different how would it be, how is it different on wood fibers how is it different than grass how is it I think the reality is if it's super icy out, you know, my kids have come home and been like, well we didn't go out today because it's super icy so I'm just trying to figure out, is this different on this surface then it would be on another surface. What happens at Wildwood, Alison would know what happens with the Wildwood on these days. I mean the swing sets are over wood chips summit, some of the places right yeah. So snow is not anything that we worry about because the children don't slip but if there's an ice storm. We will shut down the wooden play structure. If it's too much ice and we can't make it safe. So, what will happen is they'll spread the ice or out. And hopefully that will work fast enough for the kids to get out. When I was in New Hampshire, they did not use the ice or they used just sand, or, you know, they spread that out on the playground to help with the slipperiness and that pushed off, then they spread some more. So, in my mind, I can just see that we need to have some sand available so that we're not shutting the playground down if there's an ice storm. But I don't think I'm hearing from Rupert that that would be difficult. It's a temporary solution but it is something that just gets us through the recess time. Any other committee comments. I have a request, nothing related to playground and snow and that kind of stuff. Tim, you said that the next time we see this it'll the changes that that you guys have talked about and met about will be, you know, will show in all of this. And I was wondering if we could add things like, and I don't know how far ahead this is going but if we could add things like lanes that kind of stuff. And I know just visually for me that's helpful in terms of trying to figure out traffic flow and and we seem to be at a point where you guys are doing that or done that and I'd like to be able to see it so if you're, if you're making all these changes anyways if that was a possibility that would be really fantastic. We can certainly indicate how travel will happen on the drawing it may not be exactly how the parking lot eventually gets striped but we can certainly do what we can to make it a bit more clear how things are going to operate or intend to be operated. So I'll add to that once we have our final drawings now that we know sort of ideas of what we're doing we do want to run them by par our traffic engineer to make sure that the radius is and everything works so it's preliminary at best so just we'll just put not not for construction. Matthew can you share Tim's response with to Pam runes or put that in the path if you haven't already. Because as I look at this I sort of, it seems to make sense to you know they have two one way lanes because you always have that third lane available. Well, just to expand upon what I said to them so. Yes, there are two lanes. They're somewhat long though. You know, and it's a long way to go to turn around, which is a minor consideration other thing to narrow the overall footprint of the parking lot requires angling the parking, which increases the overall link not a lot but it does and this came just on the heels of expanding the plaza so you'd be pushing back against that and other suggestion Pam made was to after the drop off area, reduce the width of the driveling, but then that creates a choke one say somebody forgot a book or a lunch and they stop so so the comments were all good and in a perfect world would save money and paving, but they would also limit things that happen from day to day so. Okay, good. Thank you. I will. I just, I found it Paul, I'll send it out to everyone. So what one of one of the, I think I said this at the very beginning but I know Alison joined a few minutes after we started. The team is planning on coming out to Amherst, and we'll try to find a date that works for as many people as possible and Phoebe if you're on the road you won't be able to physically be there. So on the site side, it would be actually to walk some of the area so that we get a sense of, you know, this is here and there, and talk about the layout and on the building side. The building as they've changed some of this configuration there's more space in front for bike racks, for example, and you'll see that on Friday they added some pictures of bike racks on where the bikers could be so. And, and then the other request is they would actually visit some of the parks that we have and Crocker. So they'll see what we're seeing and we know. And, and this Jessica's boundless area in belcher town so just, it's a visual in and it'll be set up so all of that happens in a day so if you want to come into the building one you'd be able to see the bricks the materials, or the site. It would be walking and getting a better sense of what this layout, you know how much and as Tim said the overlay of it compared to what is there now, without just the Fort River School being plunked in. So, are there any other comments for now. And we're, we'll be posting this set right away in this in the multiple folders, and I sent some of the summaries on Jen Reese on the outdoor learning actually responded on the types of plants as well I mean we have terrific staff that really is paying attention. And if I don't see any hands, I'm going to see whether anyone and there's several public attendees. And if anyone there would like to make a comment. Now is the time just raise your hand. Rudy you are with us. Yeah, hi Kathy Rudy Perkins. One thing more about the field layout that wasn't clear to me until our meeting with soccer and ultimate folks the other day Tim was that even getting a few extra feet in any direction on the field actually helps in terms of the field where in front of the nets, because as Desmond Fitzgibbon was pointing out by adjusting where exactly they locate nets, they can the hardest where is right in front of the nets apparently you're in soccer I don't know that much about soccer but So at first I thought well if we can't get a whole other field. What's the point of going to any lengths to adjust the design to get, you know, five or 10 extra feet in any direction. And it was after the meeting particularly as I was thinking about what Desmond said that I realized there is an advantage so if there are ways that don't involve like wetland replacement or significant reshaping of the playground space or anything that or grading changes I realize you're factoring all those things in but if you can get an extra five or 10 feet in one direction or both directions that may help us prolong the usability of the fields in any given maintenance period. So, I thought that was a good point of his that I'm like, and I talked to him a bunch of times and was not aware of that, that aspect of increasing the field size which I think is worth thinking about. Thanks. Thank you Rudy. Okay. I'm bringing Tony and now to Tony, you're with us. Hi, thanks. Yeah, these are great changes. I really appreciate how responsive to nisco has been to all the input they've received. Just a couple of things. I'll second what Rudy said about getting a few extra feet, if possible, on the athletic fields. It did seem like it's really close to getting three full ultimate fields without overlapping on the skin didn't feel too much. So if there's any way to tweak that I think that will be really helpful. Regarding the basketball hoops, Keith Burgoyne who's the PE. Oh, sorry. Keith Burgoyne who's the PE teacher at Wildwood shared some input with me which I forwarded on to you. He asked for 10 foot hoops, he said the lower hoops are a problem with kids hanging off them and bending them. So he highly recommended sticking with the 10 foot hoops. I had a question about engineered wood fiber and how that would perform in ice and snow compared to Ford in place. If you can put sand on that more easily if it can be plowed. If you can use a snow blower on it. How does that perform. And then regarding Pam runes suggestions. I thought there were three lanes in the exit driveway. Currently, and that her proposal was to go down to to north of the cross path. I just wondered with that exit driveway how many cars are you planning on parking along the side how many can queue it seems like it's a really long distance and would it be sufficient to have queuing up to that first cross. I don't know what it's called the halfway mark across the parking lot that cut off like if you had to exit lanes north of that you talked about the choke point Tim but I wonder if there's enough queuing to go down to two lanes for part of that part. If that makes sense. And I think that's everything I had yet thanks again for these changes it looks great. So, rather than asking for any direct responses now I think what we'll do is that's been put into the both take a look at both sets of spaces there's still a series of other. We'll still take a look now on other looks so. One of the things I think we will be hearing on Friday is we. Where are their deadlines where we have to make certain decisions so that right now it's this is still in the works and I know Paul there's a meeting next week with staff. We're focused on things like comfort station and, you know, storm water drainage just on. There's a follow up meeting. So, on, because it matters whether the comfort station exists at all, whether it needs water, or whether it's compost. And so those are all open questions right now. So, so on Friday Donna and Tim, you know, giving us a sense of we need a decision on certain of these by whatever the date is. And then some of them can be left a little looser, because we've got to we've got enough of a budget for it we already that we can make them later that would be terrific. So we're closing comments. Rudy your hand is still up I didn't know whether you had another comment. Okay. Well, I want to thank everyone for joining. It's been an intense set of multiple meetings of which I missed the first, but someone said to me on the council isn't this an exciting phase as opposed to the anxiety phase and it is. Some of the building design changes or changes or flourishes, it's, you know, additions are, are looking quite beautiful. So I will see everyone on, or we will see everyone on Friday at 830. And this meeting is being recorded so if some of the people who couldn't make it, I will try to just send the recording directly to them. Who said they were going to try to make it. So we post them anyway, but we usually don't post the recordings till late afternoon on Friday. Thank you. Thank you all. This meeting is adjourned at whatever time it is 1250. Thank you. Thank you.