 Hello, everybody. This is the Hyperledic Foundation Special Interest Group for Health Care. This is a general meeting for June 22. My name is Ray Dogum. I'm the chair of this group. So in this group, we gather some industry news. We talk about what the industry has been up to lately. We share our thoughts and we try to envision how the future will look like for this group as well as for the future of this industry. Again, this is a recording, so anything you say will be posted online. And most recently, we actually have all the recordings posted onto YouTube, so it'll be easier for us to view and share. Previously, the videos were just shared directly in these Confluence Space pages. So now there's a playlist on YouTube posted by Hyperledic Foundation, so thank that team for doing that. So before we dive into some of the articles and things I wanted to talk about, I would like to give the opportunity for anyone here who might be new to introduce themselves, talk about where you're from, why you're interested in healthcare and blockchain, and maybe anything else you'd want to share. So is there anyone who would like to share, introduce themselves here today? Do I have... Hey, Asha. Oh, okay. Okay, sorry. I was going to ask if I have to like share, like, show my video. Sure, it helps. Okay. Looking great, so go for it. Okay. Asha, I've seen, this is my first time attending this Zoom meeting. I'm an international student and I go to Smith College. Why I'm interested in healthcare and blockchain? It's a long story, but to, like, I got into blockchain through genetics by reading George Churchill's paper on, like, using blockchain and genetics testing and stuff like that. Awesome. Welcome, Asha. Thanks for joining. There's a lot to learn. It's a, you know, quickly growing space. Still early, I think many would admit, but I think there's just so much potential that we're, and many of us are, that's why we're here. And those that are listening on YouTube, feel free to introduce yourselves in the comments or ask questions. I think we'd be happy to answer and provide feedback as well. Yeah. Hey, Ray, can I introduce myself? Because I see a lot of new names as well. So Asha, welcome and welcome to a Smithy. I have a Smithy in my family as well. So welcome. My name is Jingela Barbosa. I am the Executive Director of the Hyperledger Foundation. So I've been here at the Hyperledger Foundation since 2017. And at the end of last year, took over as Executive Director. So have been, you know, active participant in the healthcare special interest group for many years. Last few months, I've just been traveling and out of pocket. So hopefully, be able to put this back in. It's always been one of the highlights of the special interest groups for me to really understand what's happening in healthcare. I also serve as the general manager for healthcare, for all a blockchain healthcare and identity across the Linux Foundation. So I also have general matter responsibilities for a sister project of Hyperledger was just the Linux Foundation public health initiative. So welcome, everyone, all the new names and for all the old names that I've seen for a long time. Nice to see everybody as well. Thanks, Ray. Yeah, thank you, Daniela. Really appreciate that intro. It's really good to see you here. Really appreciate that too. So I'm going to dive right in. There are a few events that I've listed here. I'm sure there's plenty more, but I just wanted to highlight these quickly. The Drug Information Association Global Conference annual meeting is going on now in Chicago. I don't know if I know there's people who attend this that are going to be there. There's a conference in Cambridge July 13th about platform strategy and the platform revolution, and there's a specific deep dive into healthcare as well on that day. So there's a link to that here. August 29th to the 31st in Stanford, there's the science of blockchain. And in September 12th to the 14th in Ireland, actually the Hyperledger Global Forum will take place, which is an annual event. And I'm sure that'll be very interesting for the group here. And if people didn't know currently NYC in New York, there's the NFT-NYC conference going on. I've been following that. It's pretty interesting to see how the NFT in art space is evolving as well. And there's also decentralized science conferences. I haven't put them here, but if you're interested in that, let me know. Feel free to reach out to me. So first off, congratulations to Hyperledger for adding seven new members to the group, to the organization. The seven members included Avast, Infosys, and the National Fintech Center at Morgan State University. There were some other ones here. Maybe Daniela, you can speak to this as well if you'd like. It looks like you were quoted here. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's really great to see kind of the diversity of members. Obviously, from an associate perspective, we're really focused on diversity. So we've been working very closely with Morgan State University, which is at HCBU. And we've done some workshops with them and working with their professors to incorporate some of the Hyperledger projects into their coursework at Morgan State and across other HCBU's. And same thing with the Facultat Regenale de Cardoba, which is in Latin America. They've been very active in our Latin America ecosystem. So we continue to really invest in what we call our associate members. It's a free membership, but it really helps us grow and bring people into the community that at other parts might not be able to do so from a member perspective. And then we have, as usual, some great new members, a vast, big digital identity player, recently acquired Evernim and Securekey, two other Hyperledger members. So it's great to see two long-term Hyperledger members get acquired because there is acquisition happening specifically in a digital identity space. And I think that's a really great pointer to all of us who care about digital identity. And then obviously companies like Corsha and Infosys Large, Infosys is certainly bigger than Corsha, but system integrators and developers. So they are building infrastructures in healthcare and in other industries as well using Hyperledger. So overall, we like to always highlight our members who help support the organization. So yeah, happy to answer any questions. Awesome. Thank you, Daniela. Any questions for Daniela on this, on these new members? All right. So a few announcements here that I saw in the last couple of weeks. One was that ProCredex actually joined the Synaptic Health Alliance. So let me pull up that article here. This is the article, right? So ProCredex has been around for a number of years. They've been focusing on allowing providers to sort of own their own credentials and manage it. So now they're working with the Synaptic Health Alliance, which has also been around for numerous years, working with payers mainly to organize provider directories and ensure that they're up-to-date, accurate. So this is a pretty cool partnership, I think. And I'm just pretty excited about this overall. Here it says through Synaptic Health Alliance's incentive model, participants are testing the potential use of financial incentives for identifying incorrect or out-of-date records and or for supplying corrections to the secure blockchain. I mean, it would be great that when I'm checking my in-network providers to make sure that they're actually still under that plan or I can actually see them, oftentimes they're not up-to-date. But creating this either financial incentive or some sort of incentive to make sure that those directories are accurate, that's going to provide a lot of value, I think, to patients and also to the payers and really providers too. So I think this is pretty cool. Any comments or anyone more familiar with this announcement you'd like to share? I am not familiar with them, but we have been working very closely with Synaptic Health Alliance with Kyle Clover. He actually spoke at our consensus booth about the work that they've been doing there. And I just posted into the chat, we do have a session at Global Forum in September with Pfizer, CVS Health, and Synaptic on the topic, which should be great. Oh, that's awesome. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. And I heard Kyle Clover actually talk at HIMS this year. He presented on the Synaptic Health Alliance. It was really interesting learning about this financial incentive model because it's not clear how it will work. We don't want to allow people to gain the system. And so figuring out that equation or algorithm is a work in progress. But I'm just glad that there's so many smart people working on it here. So good stuff. Another article I saw here last couple weeks was this wired article. It's called It's Time to Burn Medical Consent Forms. And this is a common sort of sentiment we've heard again and again in the space where medical consent forms are not really, they're a little bit outdated, let's just say. And I think this article goes into how painful it is for patients and just the system overall. A lot of paperwork and the paperwork is not necessarily that useful, except for like protecting the health system, perhaps. Here's the consent form as sure. Can I speak a little bit to that? One of the things about the consent forms are that now, if you go to any hospital or clinic, at least here in Seattle, anywhere, you actually do sign, you know, there is no paperwork. They just tell you this is the consent and you have a digital signature. And the issue that I have with that is that actually the paperwork is important because if you ask them to please print that consent and you read it, it used to be that you gave consent, excuse me, for one procedure, okay, say that you gave consent for something. But if you actually have that consent printed now, which I recommend anybody that goes to a hospital or clinic have that consent printed before they sign it, it is unbelievable what you are giving away. I asked, I took, I accompanied one of my friends to the hospital and I asked them to please print the consent. The consent was three pages. And the person was actually consenting to enter the information in research. I mean, I was like shocked of everything that you were giving consent of having the surgery done by residents that your information was going to be for learning. I mean, it was, it wasn't real. And the patient does not have another option but to sign because it's digital. And he's like, probably the best thing to do is actually print that form and say, I don't, I don't agree with this. I don't agree with that and then sign it because even though you don't think you need the paperwork, they never, you know, when they asked her to sign this consent, they never told her what was in the consent. Right. And that's like one of the major issues to notice. It's not like the patients can decide, you know, not to sign and go somewhere else or not to sign and still have the procedure treatment done. It's that's the issue. It's like they don't have a choice. And I hope that the industry is hearing this and is, you know, working towards giving patients more choice. But I don't really see that yet. To be honest, I don't think that the patients are well educated and people trust the hospital or their clinical physicians. So that's one of the issues they just think, you know, I'm just signing my consent to have, you know, hysteria to me or whatever it is. And it was just, it goes just beyond everything. It's about sharing information as well. You are, you know, when you read the consent, there is a part there that they said that they will share the information with, you know, different things, different universities or studies or whatever. And the only thing to know what you're signing is to actually print it and read it. Yeah, no, that's good recommendation. Here it says the risks a person may face from research are no longer confined to a fixed study period data can be retained and reused in ways that may be unknown studies onset. So like you said, you know, this is kind of like an indefinite consent here. So here's the data communities may create risks even for those who declined to join offending the basic bargain of health research informed consent. So, you know, like we know here, like the law has been caught up with the tech. I think this article will hopefully bring because it's been wired, hopefully it'll bring more awareness to the consumers and patients and general audience or general public. So, well, and the issues that, you know, as, as technology progresses, in those, in those consents, they add even more information like genetic information, all of these things that people do not realize they're giving away. So yeah, it's if if you're ever going to a clinical hospital, I recommend you print that that form and read it very carefully. Absolutely. I think that's great points. Appreciate that. And I just wanted to comment on this last paragraph here, a consent form doesn't have to look like the dozens of legal forms and disclaimers we ignore every day. And it shouldn't reframing consent can help build bridges between patients and researchers and facilitate the long term relationships that are necessary to advance better health outcomes for everyone. And this is really important, I think in this trust between patients and researchers, you know, it could be a lot better. And I think being more transparent with patients and honest upfront and, you know, making sure they're aware of what they're signing up for and giving them choice again is really important, I think. And I hope that the builders of today are focused on this as a as a principle. Any other comments on this before I jump to the next one? The next article here is by the markup and it's about Facebook receiving sensitive medical information from hospital websites. So this was the article here, it's quite lengthy, I think, but very important. And I honestly wasn't surprised when I heard about this. So what this is saying is, you know, the markup, they did an analysis, they tested many websites, hospital websites, to see or to test whether or not the hospitals are collecting information from the users. And we're able to see how many hospitals actually have a pixel tracking within their websites and sending that information or sending the information users input directly to Facebook and connecting that to their Facebook accounts. So it's pretty cool. This research they did, they tested a hundred different hospitals, major hospitals too. Many of them did have the pixel tracking embedded on their websites. And it's interesting because after the markup of this publisher reported it to the hospitals, some of them actually removed the pixel tracking from their website. So there was a impact. So that's good. But some of them didn't actually, some of them replied and some didn't respond. So you can see there's 20 pages of hospitals here. And you know, you can view if the hospital maybe that you go to or you work with is using pixel tracking. But again, in the beginning, I said I wasn't too surprised about this because many digital tech or digital health tech companies and startups are trying to leverage you know, data analytics to measure who's using the product or how they're using it or where they stop using it. So all these, you know, the experience or the user experience is really measured in order to improve the application. But you know, it could also be used for other purposes as well. Like for example here, one of the examples I provided is if I think it was on the website for University Hospitals Cleveland Medical Center, clicking the schedule online button on the doctors page prompted the meta pixel to send Facebook the text of the button the doctor's name and the search term we used to find pregnancy termination. You know, this is could be something you wouldn't want to share with Facebook or other technology companies. So just wanted to point this out. This is good research. You guys should check it out if you have some time. I'm not going to go deep into it, but they did a pretty good job explaining how you know their method and what was revealed. One thing I just want to highlight here too is because Epic also was involved. Epic Systems, the software company behind my chart has specifically recommended heightened caution around the use of custom analytics scripts. So, you know, the industry is aware of this. It's not like a secret, but to many of the consumers and patients, it might not be something we know about. So pretty interesting. Next here I have is an article from TechTarget. It's about healthcare or healthcare data breaches on the rise in 2022. So we've talked about this in the past. The fact that hackers are getting into health system databases and either giving them a ransomware request, holding their data, freezing their databases until they pay the ransomware, and one of the most recent ones was at Yuma Regional Medical Center in Arizona. The hospital recently disclosed it was struck by ransomware attack and it exposed the data of 700,000 individuals. That's a significant number. I don't know exactly what the penalties are for violating HIPAA per patient, I believe, but this is very significant and, you know, depending on what kind of data was exposed, that hospital and maybe its affiliates might be responsible for some hefty penalties and fines. This is just to indicate that there is a greater need for better cybersecurity in the healthcare space, blockchain, decentralized ledger technologies, the product suites from Hyperledger, all these solutions can allow or give us the tools to make it more safe to, you know, share our data with health systems, essentially owning our own data, hopefully. Hey, can I make a comment? Absolutely. Hey, Jordan. How are you doing? This is really interesting to me. I think there's something counterintuitive here that we don't appreciate around the relationship between security, privacy, and accessibility. There's an interplay or a tension between these two concepts where, you know, oftentimes advocates of greater accessibility to health data for, you know, the value that it provides clinically, economically, are often in contention with those who advocate for, you know, really, really serious security and they want to lock it down and keep it inaccessible. And you end up in a situation where if you dial security too high and accessibility too low, you end up with a really interesting phenomenon where the first, the data becomes useless, which in electronic health record systems, health data in general is notoriously bad, right? The quality is bad. It's difficult to use effectively and the clinic doctors don't get a lot of value out of it. Patients have a hard time understanding it or accessing it. And so when you dial security all the way up, the accessibility all the way down, you get a really bad product, essentially. But the other thing that happens is if you dial security all the way up, accessible all the way down, eventually security will suffer, will become really bad because the tool, the data, the product isn't being used by anybody very effectively or well. And anytime you have bad design practices, you have a bad product, or it doesn't achieve what it's supposed to achieve, it gets hard to understand how to use it. And then you end up with holes, mistakes, right? Third-party intrusions, you know, that's where most of the data breaches, a lot of the research around some of these data breaches is the vast majority of the offenders are through third-party integrations. And it's largely because the accessibility is not well-defined. It's really difficult to give a third-party access to that data safely because the security's been dialed so high and the accessibility so low, we can't provide products and tools and services with that data that's actually valuable and understood so that we can know how to secure it, right? The counterintuitiveness of this is that if we could figure out how to make healthcare data more accessible, right, more, and by accessible, I mean providing value to the right stakeholders at the right time, not necessarily just easy to access, view, see, but accessible in the sense that it's providing the value that it's supposed to provide in the form of applications and tools and clinical resources, et cetera. The security and the accessibility will actually rebalance out. The security will get better as we learn how to use the data better. It will have to. It will self-select as we allow accessibility for new tools and new services to be built that leverage the value of that data. The industry will auto-select for the ones that are secure, the ones that do it well, right? But right now, we've dialed security so high, the access is so low, we just have to be pushing old technology that can't iterate, can't grow, can't change, and in a quickly changing environment where technology is getting better, ransom attacks are getting more sophisticated, right? We're just exposing our health data in a really dangerous way. And this is where I think blockchain has such amazing potential because of the role it can play in linking data inextricably to patients as well as to the hospital systems that produce that data. That's that whole provenance thing. I mean, at the end of the day, blockchain is just a tamper-resistant shared record-keeping. That's an EHR, right? I don't know what else an EHR would be. It's a tamper-resistant shared record-keeping protocol. So I think we've got to rebalance those, though. It's counterintuitive, but as we provide better accessibility, I think we'll actually see security and privacy get a lot better, and I think blockchain's at the heart of that. So I have a question. What happens with all of that as you see a lot of acquisitions in the industry? To give an example, so clinics and hospitals are being bought and acquired by UnitedHealthcare and all of these things. Every time that there is such a transition, there is a transition in medical information. So how do you manage that? I mean, for example, as patients, which I've seen, every time that they sign in to the same clinic that they're going to, that clinic has been acquired and now they have a different chart, for example, and it completely changes. In a matter here in Seattle, I've seen it like in a matter of five years, places that have been acquired two or three times. And every time that happens, the medical information and all of that changes to a different provider. So, yeah, blockchain would be great, but it would have to stay through whomever acquires that clinic, hospital, for continuity and safety of the medical information. Yeah, that's a good question, like where, what happens when these records are moved to the new owners of the health system or a company? I don't know. I think, it depends on which standards they use, I presume, but I also hope that patients are made aware, like, hey, we've recently been acquired by this company, your medical records will now be in the custody of this new company. Here is what we're doing to maintain the safety and security of your data. I don't know if it's happening necessarily, but it's a good question to investigate, I would say. Anybody here would like to try to answer or provide some insights? I mean, I would acknowledge that it's a mess, Alicia, you're not wrong. The acquisition and, you know, merging of health systems and especially their data is really, really nasty, but it's a side effect, I would say, of the current bad practice, the current misaligned incentives and some of the anti-patterns that have been perpetuated in healthcare. And I don't know that I have a great answer. I'm just acknowledging the pain point that you present, but I can't help but feel like if we could unsilo data and link it the right way, I feel like a lot of the interoperability pain that we experience, I feel like a lot of the technical overhead that we see would decrease, would diminish. And at the end of the day, I mean, we probably should ask the question too, are healthcare systems meant to be technical shops that manage a whole technical back-end? Is that something that a vendor should be handling? I mean, is that something that we would look to somebody like Epic or CERN? I mean, they've clearly failed at this, but Epic and CERN are pushed so much responsibility onto health systems and hospitals. It seems like there's a really, really bastardized sharing of responsibilities there that probably contributes to a lot of that pain, I would think. Any other comments? I was going to say it depends on some like taking these MIT lectures now about blockchain and it talks about how if it's like a permissionous blockchain, then it's difficult. I guess it would be difficult if like, say like a healthcare institution that uses blockchain, permissionous blockchain is acquired. I think it would be difficult for like the new party to change things about it versus if it was permissioned blockchain. I don't know, I'm thinking about that. Well, I mean, I would imagine in a permissionless network set up, you might not need to transition anything. I mean, I guess like we're talking, there's a lot of intricacies here where we have to get into the details to kind of be more clear. We probably don't have the time to do all that today, but yeah, I mean, it is important to think about like the future of healthcare with blockchain. Should these organizations be focusing on developing permissioned blockchain networks in order to keep the system somewhat secure, at least in their views, or would a permissionless blockchain network give that greater accessibility that Jordan was speaking of? These are questions we still haven't answered, I think. But it's very interesting to think about and I'm sure a lot of people are working on it. Again, if you're watching this on YouTube, make a comment. I think we'd love to hear more about what you think. So I appreciate that. Hi, Ray. How are you? Can you hear me? My name is Guillermo Diaz. I'm from Mexico City. There was a long time I didn't jump to these sessions. So I see new faces. That's good. So let me answer a little bit, you know, the Alicia's question. I believe that it depends on the country, but just to give you an example in Mexico, by law, the hospitals need to have the records at least five years, right? After that, it depends on the hospital if they wanted to keep that records or not. So in terms of the acquisitions from one hospital to the other one, apply the same. I mean, the law says that if you need to keep that data at least five years, it's the rule. In our cases, we are just playing with some verified credentials and tracking vaccines from you know, from the fabric to the patient, right? So the idea here that we are doing, and it's something that we are incubating in a university here down in Mexico, it's to empower the people to decide how they can share their information and how, you know. The idea is that create a verified credential that you keep all your data in your records and you can share to them in a granular basis. You can share all the historical data or just a piece of information, you know? So in this case, I believe that the blockchain is changing the rules about, you know, who owns the data and who can access to that data. So I just want to mention that. So one of the things that is happening here in the States or at least here in Seattle that is going to be interesting in keeping that information is that insurance companies actually are acquiring clinics. So you have, I don't think they have acquired hospitals yet, but they are acquiring huge clinics. So what's going to happen with, you know, that medical information as well as now they have access to a lot of information. And I don't know for Guillermo, if they only keep the medical information for five years, what happens to someone that has been getting care, you know, and they're now in their 40s, 50s? What happens to all that information? They only keep it for five years and then what happens? Well, that's exactly I think one of the values that blockchain can potentially bring is that data won't be in the custody of the clinic or the hospitals or the health insurance companies any longer. The patients themselves can carry and own that data and, you know, bring it wherever they go. And none of the hospitals or clinics would have that information unless the patient specifically and oftentimes in a granular way consented to sharing that data for a year, one day, 10 years, it'll depend on the situation, maybe the diagnosis as well. But, you know, Alicia, I think you're right right now. The system isn't that way right now. The system is messy and you raise a really good point. I think probably. Well, that's one of the reasons why I was interested in blockchain. Yeah, how that's going to facilitate that because it should, you know, it should have the patient should be the owner of the information and should be able to share it appropriately because a lot of patients also don't understand that once they have that information is not protected by HIPAA once they start sharing it. Agreed. Yeah. Any other comments on this topic? Just that it scares me to death that insurance companies are requiring clinics just seems like there's so much so much misaligned incentive there. But I think, yeah, and I also agree that data should, you know, the health record data should exist for the life of the patient, right? And in fact, probably for the life of their children too, there's in fact, the one of the greatest predictors of disease is your family history. And, you know, it's hard enough for me to get access to my family history, but it's even harder for, you know, my parents or my grandparents to share their health history with me. I mean, blockchain technology would allow, I mean, just from a purely social context, so you can imagine being able to share important family history information with loved ones, the impact that that might have across, you know, in terms of care prevention. There's so much opportunity there. I think that, you know, that data has to exist. And again, it just, it makes me question whether, you know, yes, I totally agree hospitals need access to that data to treat their patients, but should they be the sole primary stewards of that data? That just doesn't seem right, right? There's, there has to be a joint custody between hospitals and patients. Everybody needs access to the data because we're all stakeholders in health care. Right? So it's, it's not necessarily one of the other, but, but right now patients need to be reinstated as one of those stakeholders. And I think blockchain has the power to do that. Agreed. Yeah, that's fair. And just one thing I wanted to make a note of about this article, and, you know, led to this conversation about data ownership is, but jumping back here is another finding from the SOFO's report was health care organizations paid the demanded ransoms in exchange for decryptors more often in 2001, 61% of the time than in 2020, which they paid only 34% of the time. So it's just interesting to see that these organizations are getting ransomware attacks and they're just, you know, increasingly deciding to pay the ransom. I think there's obviously a concern here, but there's no real solution yet. So I think, you know, this is going to be something where I keep talking about probably. So stay tuned for that. Hopefully there's less attacks, but I just don't see that happening. Okay, a couple more articles here. The first one, this would be quick. I just noticed that there are nominations open for modern health care. Modern health care is a well known health care publisher. And they're looking for the 100 most influential people in health care. I'm sure you all know some, you know, leaders in the space, executives, companies that are doing really cool stuff. So I just want to bring this to your attention so that if you have the time, you can maybe nominate someone you think it deserves it. So there's a link in there. This agenda. I also wanted to share that I think decentralized science, which is something of a movement now in the blockchain space, is very closely related to decentralized health and the way that we think about it. So recently there was an announcement that a decentralized science platform molecule raised $13 million in seed funding. So I just wanted to, you know, bring this to your attention. So you guys know that this space is growing. There's a lot of attention around it. And I think combining decentralized health and decentralized science is really important because essentially every human being is a different science experiment in a way. So I think being able to bring together all this information and data in a way that can help our future generations learn more about human body and the minds can be really, really cool. So yeah, those are the articles I wanted to share. There's a couple educational nuggets, the first one being this health data principles website I found. I don't know too much about it, but I thought it was cool because they talk about how health data should be governed and they outline very clearly and, you know, really, I think it is a great job. I'm not familiar with the creators of this, but yeah, I think it's just a really helpful way to understand, you know, what does health equity mean? What does data security mean? You know, I just wanted to, you know, make sure that you guys were aware of this website and could be good reading for you. And then I also wanted to share that I published an episode on my podcast recently with Jordan Woods and Radhika from Ian Garth from Star Chain Ventures. They talk about Web 3 investing. They've been in the industry for a number of years. They've written the book. Actually it was called Blockchain and Enterprise or something like that. And I think that it's really just an interesting conversation we had. So feel free to check that out. And finally, in the last meeting, someone suggested or requested a list of blockchain and healthcare courses that were online or maybe for someone to find like a list of them with reviews. I wasn't able to find a specific list with reviews, but I did aggregate the courses I was able to find myself. I didn't, you know, actually go through every course and take them. So I can't really review them necessarily. But I just wanted to list them here for you all with the cost and, you know, the organization that's running it and a few notes. So there's a bunch of year. You can see the Blockchain Council here. They have one Blockchain Training Alliance hosts a couple courses. Although I think these might be the same course at different prices because one is hosted on a different website. I'm not too sure, but you know, it's a pretty big price difference. So if you are looking for one, maybe the one on Udemy might be more affordable. There's another one on Udemy here. Blockchain and healthcare, the ultimate use case. Although that one was a bit outdated. The GBA Global Organization has Blockchain Healthcare Specialist course. The link wasn't working when I tried it. So I just wanted to include it here in case maybe I couldn't find the right link or something. Great. It's interesting that we call 2020 a bit outdated. Yeah. Well, stuff moves so quickly. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I mean, that's from my perspective. Maybe I think it's still relevant. It's not like useless, I would say, but you know, these are these organizations and ideas are happening so quickly. So that's what I meant. Thank you very much for doing that because I was one of those that requested that, you know, since I'm trying to learn more, this is fantastic. Thank you very much for doing that. Oh, you're welcome. Glad to do it. Yeah. Thank you. Sure. No problem. A few more here. I think this one from the University of San Diego extended studies is actually starting sooner. I think it started yesterday. You could probably get in though. And it's, you know, very relevant, new. And there's a few more here you can see as well. So with that, I think I covered everything I wanted to cover. But if there's anything else people here in the group wants to discuss, we still have about nine minutes. And I'll leave the floor open for discussion. I do have a question, Ray, and to others. Are you all using the Discord channel? Because I just popped in there because usually, you know, there's links and stuff shared there. And I see a couple of people asking questions and no one's responding back. So I wonder if maybe as a SIG, we can put a plan together to engage with people that pop into that Discord channel. Yeah, thanks for bringing that up, Daniela. I haven't been monitoring that channel actually, but that's something. There's somebody, yeah, there's somebody looking for case studies. So the Hyperledic Foundation Discord has their own Discord. And you're talking about a specific channel in there, right? So within the Discord, there's a healthcare SIG channel. I'll take that upon myself to kind of bring the group together and just make sure that people can use this. It'll be more functional, but that's a good point. Thank you. It's also a great just way like you could put the agenda in there so people who can't make the call. So we have a very global community and people can't make the calls and they can follow along with the discussion and the comments and stuff. I agree, yeah. I'm a Discord newbie myself. And obviously, for us, for staff, there's hundreds of channels, so it gets pretty noisy. But I know feedback from the other SIGs has been that it's very helpful. Yeah, I've muted. I have too many Discord channels and groups, so I've muted all my notifications, but I'm going to turn the one on for the specific channel so I get all the messages. I think that'd be good. So thanks for bringing that to our attention. Daniela. Very cool. Anything else? I just want to thank you all so much again for joining today and participating. The next meeting will be in two weeks. It'll be July 6th. I hope you all can make it. And looking forward to speaking with you again very soon. And again, if there's any questions or comments you guys want to share with me directly or with the group, feel free to start using the agenda comments. I think that'd be pretty useful. I create a new agenda page for each of the meetings. So when I create the new one for the next one, I'll put a message like this so you guys can comment with your own potential links, announcements, ideas, and hopefully we can discuss them. So again, thank you so much. Hope you guys all have a good day. Great. Thanks, everyone. Have a great day. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Ray. Thanks, Ray. Thanks, everybody. Bye. Thanks, Ray. Thank you. Bye.