 Today I had the opportunity and actually the pleasure to talk to Brandon. I was asked earlier if I would be willing to have a conversation with him and certainly I agreed to meet with him just like I would with anyone else in our community as relates to public safety and what we're doing and what we're not doing and the direction that we're going. Actually, we have a couple things in common. I think we both, our mother has played a significant role in us growing up even over different parts of the country so that was a pretty productive conversation just talking about our passes. But to the matter at hand, he'd asked a lot of questions as it relates to policing. A lot of police do some of the things that they do which obviously I was in position to give him explanation, reasonable explanation for most of those things but I think the bottom line with Brandon and with a lot of other people that are having a lot of questions as it relates to policing in America today and I acknowledge that there's certainly some challenges as it relates to policing in America today, particularly as it relates to our ability to interact with communities of color. Denver does not stand alone as it relates to that I've worked in as you all know, worked in five departments and that pretty much has been a challenge in all those departments and I talked to police chiefs around the country and it's a challenge in pretty much most of those cities and I sort of gave him my assessment of that as it relates to why I thought it was the way it is particularly as it relates to Denver. He's kind of curious about officers getting involved in incidents that are controversial and somehow they still on the job or their actions illegal and my response to that is the same response I've given several of you. The men and women in our department are very well trained. They know legally what they can do, they know the policies and procedures and unfortunately part of being a police officer you will get involved in incidents that are controversial at times. Controversial not meaning that it's right or wrong but it's just simply controversial. And some of those scenarios, some of those more serious scenarios end up in the DA's office. The DA will look at those and find out that the officers did not do anything that was criminal. And then it becomes an administrative process where it becomes my responsibility and the executive director's safety responsibility to make judgment on whether those officers violated our policies and procedures and many times they didn't. But that does not still allay the concerns that Brendan has and that many people of color in our community and people of color that are not of color in our community. So my response to that is a lot of times citizens are asking how come the person didn't get locked up? How come you also didn't get indicted? How come you also didn't get suspended in Brendan? I think I was wondering about a lot of those things also. So my response to Brendan is while many people and maybe even you, Brendan, are asking why the officer got off because it appeared like he or she broke the law, when in most instances they did not break the law. The question that you're really asking is, were those actions necessary? And I am of the belief that one of the greatest challenges that we have in policing today and I'll share this with him is that citizens are asking those that are really questioning what we do. Many of them are asking just because our actions are legal or they really necessary. And then I went on to explain to him that our police department is working to address that. We've made a litany of changes in our department to speak to not only training officers on the legality of the laws, but really have them understanding the great discretion they have and using that discretion for the greater good of the community. So in other words, making decisions that are not just only legal, but making decisions that are necessary. And then we went on to talk about sanctity of life, which is I think it's something critically important and I think it's been a big challenge. And I gave him the example. Back in the day, probably before he was born, before many of you were born, there was a TV program called Hill Street Blues. And the sergeant in the road call would tell the officers be safe out there and basically say, we want you to come home. We want you to go home to your families at the end of the day. So, but that is not where that needs to end. We also want that individual that's creating a threat to the community or a threat to that police officer to go somewhere at the end of the day other than at the end of a bullet, unless that person is creating a life threatening scenario that will immediately harm that officer or harm a citizen. So that means that we want that person to go to jail, to go to court or wherever. And that's having a respect for everybody's life. And I put it in the category of sanctity in life. And I assured him that our department is working on those things, working on making decisions that are not just illegal, but are also necessary and working on the importance of valuing everyone's life. And actually, then I gave him three healthy pieces of material to read. One is the president's 21st Task Force on policing. I think many of you are familiar with that. And we subscribe to almost everything that's in that Task Force. The other is a report that is done by Perf. Perf is a police executive research forum, which I'm an executive board member on that does national studies of policing around the country, as well as our recruiting police chiefs. And that specifically talk about 30 points of 21st century policing with what a department should look like specifically as it relates to interacting with citizens. And the other is a report that we generated as a result of a group of professional organizations from around the country gave to the mayor, making suggestions on, and I think they probably gave it to other police departments also, making suggestions on how you should reform your police department. Well, the mayor gave me that report and we responded to that, to all of those entities. And I will tell you that between 95 and 99% of the things that they were suggesting, we've already done over in the process of doing. Had a great conversation. I also, he had asked, I also gave him some suggestions as relates to what he was doing and why he was doing it. And I think he understood, and I don't need to speak to Brandon, I think you all will probably get an opportunity to do that at his convenience whenever he decides. But it became pretty clear to me that his kneeling was to speak to the injustices that he feels that are going across in our country. But I also think that he also recognizes that the, and we talked about this, that most of the men and women in law enforcement and certainly those in Denver out doing the right thing every single day. And it's that small percentage, that small percentage that is a challenge for our community, it's a challenge for me as a police department. And we talked about, as I just mentioned to you, some of the things that we're doing to correct that. And I also suggested to him that what I thought would be very valuable and very powerful is always good to give money. But it's been some of his time actually talking to young people about making good decisions, not putting themselves in harm's way. And he agreed that he's done that. He agreed to continue to do that. And he's more than willing to continue to work with our police department, by the way. So we're actually going to give him a list of things that we think that he can do working in partnership with our police department. And maybe from a perspective of him really understanding the challenges that the men and women are facing every single day, I explained to him that we have this $300,000 simulator that we create scenarios, shoot and don't shoot scenarios. And it's absolutely phenomenal. And offered him to go through it. And he welcomed that opportunity. So at some point I'm sure he's going to do that. And I can assure you once he goes through that, it will make the picture a lot clearer as it relates to the challenges that men and women in law enforcement are dealing with every single day. Questions? Do you support him nearly? Do I support him nearly? I support his right along with the other thousands of individuals that are demonstrated in our city during the course of my four years being here to express their First Amendment rights. I think whether I agree or disagree, I think it's totally irrelevant. I think as a chief and as a law enforcement person, I have a responsibility to protect the rights of everyone as it relates to the Constitution and the amendment. So yeah, I respect his right to exercise his First Amendment. And I have a responsibility, like we've done for so many other people, to protect his right to do that. How long was the review of what? Probably about 45 to 50 minutes this morning. Yes. Was it here at the police station? Yes. What would you say to someone who said, you know what? You're endorsing what he did when he, you know, people feel like that flag was disrespected police, that it disrespected the military. What's your message to people who say that by even taking the meeting, it was disrespected? I am absolutely not endorsing it. You know, this was an opportunity to be perfectly honest with you. I'm sure that he has an agenda is why he wanted to do it. But let me tell you why I wanted to do it. It gave me an opportunity to listen to somebody else who has a voice and that can perhaps impact other individuals as it relates to what their concerns are. But equally as important, it gave me an opportunity to talk to him about the good work that the men and women are doing in our police department and that police officers are doing across this country. See, you can't, this was an opportunity to use a football analogy to move the ball forward. We can never address the issues that we're faced with in this country if, number one, if we don't have respect for the other side of the table. And number two, if we can't find some common ground to move forward around it. So from my perspective, I wanted to represent, I wanted to hear what he had to say, but I also wanted to represent low enforcement in a positive perspective, but also acknowledged that we have problems and also assure him, like I have done with other groups that are questioning what we're doing, that we acknowledge that we have problems and that we are aggressively trying to get our arms around those problems. And the only way that we can really make any, really in rows if we work together addressing those issues. This is just not a police issue, us trying to fix these things by ourselves. I mean, we have to have people who are questioning what we do to not have to stay for us. And for me, that means that you have to have a mutual respect. And figure out, okay, this is what you see the issues. This is what we see that the challenges. Now, how can we work together to move that ball forward? And I will tell you, he was a very respectful young man. I don't think he has any great ill will against low enforcement or the military. And I believe that he really wants to do something that will help us get our arms around some of these challenges that we're facing in our nation. To move things forward, do you think it can be something as simple as conversation or do you think there needs to be policy? No, well, I mean, from my perspective, it's policy. And I mean, I've delineated to your couple of minutes ago, all the things that we're doing. From his perspective, again, I don't particularly want to speak to him, but speak for him. But I think he understands that the kneeling is the acknowledgement that's a problem. So now that you've acknowledged your problem, what are you going to do to address it? And I think he understands that. I heard you talk about the police simulator. I don't know what other types of specific things you all do. I mean, we do a litany of things. And I gladly, and then we send them out. I mean, we meet with communities on a daily basis. I mean, we have six police districts in our district. They are familiar with pretty much every entity in their area of responsibility, just organized. It's not organized. We have citizens academies. We have volunteer groups. We have advisory boards. I mean, it's probably well more than a dozen things that we do as a police department to try to better connect with the community. I mean, because to be honest with you, obviously we get paid to prevent crime, but the essence of us doing that and having any real success in doing it is based on our relationship with the community. So we spend an inordinate amount of time connecting with the community, trying to relate with the community. And that's the entire community. What do you do like maybe a ride-along? Yeah, we offered our, actually I didn't offer a ride-along. It was in my notes to do that. I don't always go by my notes, but I'm going to make it a point to none of you reminding me that we're going to offer him the opportunity to do that. And I suspect that he would gladly take advantage of that. What kind of internal dialogue do you have as a black man at the head of the police? I mean, so much of the senators around the race. Like, do you have any internal dialogue about what this is like across the country? Yeah, I mean, and obviously I am an African-American. I have three children, two of them are young men and they ask a lot of questions because it relates to that. As a matter of fact, one is the teacher in DC teaching in a part of the community that is challenged socially. And he asked me a lot of questions about that. So yeah, yeah, I will tell you, Whitney, you might have heard me say this before. One of the only reasons I am still doing this is because philosophically, I have a strong belief that while we have made significant inroads in addressing some of these challenges race-wise, there's still a lot of work to be done. And I want to use my passion and any authority that I have to get us closer to addressing some of those issues. So yeah, obviously there are issues. Obviously as a police profession, I realize those issues as a parent, as an African-American, I realize those issues. And I would say for those reasons, it's probably why I'm still doing this, to be honest with you, because I think, I do believe one person can make a difference regardless of that person stationed in life. And I don't think that I'm the exception to that. I think giving my passion, giving my position, that I can help move that ball a little further down the road to mitigate some of the things, some of the negative things that we're experiencing today in our country. Chief, if he takes advantage of these things that you're offering, can he also be that one person that can make a difference? Yeah, I think. Can he break down the mistrust? Yeah, I think, I mean, you don't have to be a police chief to make a difference. I mean, I worked at McDonald's. I believe when I was flipping hamburgers at McDonald's, I can make a difference due to my ability to communicate with people and understanding the importance of customer service. So yeah, I certainly think he believes that he can make a difference. And I think he believes this is why he, this is why he has taken a stance that he has taken. But also, again, you need to speak to him. Taking a stance, acknowledging something is one thing. And what you do once you acknowledge it is a problem. What are you doing to try to address it? And we talked about that. I mean, we talk about, okay, obviously you taking the stance of exercising your first amendment rights, acknowledging that there's an issue that is important to you, of which he believes it is. It's great. So now what are you gonna do? Now that you've acknowledged the issue, what are you gonna do? Part of what part of that for him is having this conversation, understanding from a police perspective, what are those challenges? What are you all dealing with? How come you're doing these things? Why do people have this perception? And then taking all of that knowledge to figure out now that you have this additional knowledge, what are you going to do as it relates to what you see your responsibility is to move that ball forward? And that's kind of where he's at. And I applaud him for that, by the way. You know, there are a lot of people that will raise issues and be negative and be what my kids call just haters, no matter what you do, and let it go with that. He has issues and he has questions as it relates to what we're doing. He acknowledged that he have some of those challenges and he wants to do something about it. And part of doing something about it is going to the source of where you think some of those issues are. And he took the time to do that. Did he tell you whether he's gonna change his kind of continuing his pro-cast? Well, you should talk to him as it relates to that. He's saying anything to you? Again, I think that it would be inappropriate for me to talk about what his long-term plans are because I'm not 100% sure what all of them are. But my understanding is that he is willing to talk to the media at some point in the very near future. Did you give him a list of ways that you guys can work together moving forward for some of the other things? I made some suggestions to him off the top of my head, but I will also tell you that we're gonna actually, actually provide him a longer list of some of the things that we think he can do working with us as a police department. Did he have any suggestions? Did he come with a list of suggestions, a laundry list, or no? No, he came with questions. He came with a lot of questions and we talked about some of those things and my response was some of the response that I had given you all. Chief, when you was talking about the officers, were those local officers or just national? I think his conversation was more a general conversation, a national conversation. I don't think he was pinpointing the Denver Police Department. And he talked about some bad experiences that he had. And I think it was in LA or it was not in Denver. And I told him I was certainly empathetic towards that and I was aware of the fact that there are many of us of color that would have had a necessary and negative experience with the police. But don't use that one or two negative experiences to use that broad brush to say that all police officers are like this because that is not the case. Do you ever have a negative experience with police? Yeah, I'm sure I've had a couple of negative experiences with police in my younger days and I've had some negative experiences as a police chief trying to make changes also but that's part of the job. That many of you have written about, by the way. When did he call you and what did he say when he asked for the meeting? Well, actually he didn't call me. I was asked by the Broncos, I guess the management of the Broncos if I would be willing to do that. And obviously I welcome that opportunity like I would have for anyone else or for any agency. And when did you get that call from the Broncos? Oh gosh, that might have been maybe five days ago or so and I'm guessing four or five days ago. A lot of the other cities have said that they may ask their police to stop policing or working security for those gains. Would you, do you see that happening here? Absolutely not. What is the next step for you guys? The next step for us is continue on what we've been doing every single day. I have spent a late, spent a lot of time talking to officers beyond all the ranks just me and the officers. From their perspective, what do they see? What can I do as their chief to make their job more effective and then taking advantage of that time to share with them some of the things I just shared with you as it relates to the perception and the challenges that we have dealing with parts of the community that are really challenging us talking about not only using, not only making decisions that are legal but making decisions that are absolutely necessary and talking about the sanctity of life. So I'm gonna continue to do that with the troops. Gonna continue to do that with management. We're gonna continue to connect with the community. We're in the process of doing data collection and it's gonna help us hopefully take a little deeper dive exactly what we're doing. If we're doing it right, hopefully it'll serve as a confirmation. If we're not doing it right, it'll give us an opportunity to address that. So we're gonna continue doing what we're doing, figuring out how can we become more effective, more efficient and help move that ball forward. And regarding Brandon, is there a next meeting lined up or a next step for you to do? I certainly made myself available for him in the future if he cares to do that. So that's totally up to him. One more question, guys. One more question. Have you already started collecting the data on the issue? We started looking at the process and how we wanna do that in the most effective way. Okay, thanks a lot. I really appreciate your time.