 Are we live? Oh, we're starting. Oh, I can see the countdown now. Hi, everybody. Hi, Alice. Much love to everybody. The infinite bra is back for round two now as eternal bra. Oh, man. Well, the reason for that is because I've been kind of just resting in silence the last, I don't know how many days. I've been like experiencing life through the peeping hole, peeping tongue, the keyhole of eternity, like a peeping tongue. Fucking great. Just disappear into the absolute without putting the costume on. Because I've been expressing so much and just, you know, trying to share and stuff and sometimes it's going to be like, you know, I'm just going to disappear into the absolute for definitely not a time in a space of no time, you know. I'm sure everyone on the path will go through like phases where you kind of, the more you can disappear, the more you can come out. Yeah, emptiness in form. Yeah. Anyway, so that's good, man. Yeah, that's a really core point actually on the journey of piercing the valous veil and recognizing one's true nature is that we pass a lot of our time in service and we aim to purify the where we're coming from. So that is truly in service to these other costumes of infinity, recognizing the true nature and in doing so sometimes it's important to go and recharge said batteries. And that's the detoxes that's the detoxes and that's the really more in depth just abiding as the absolute right here in Rigpa. Just, you know, this is it. And yet it really still requires our attention on it yet as a gym repetition to really anchor it in better and better. The in gym as a gym bra, the rest periods are almost as important, not more important than the lifting itself. If you want to build muscles, how many hours a week you spend at the gym, maybe five hours, how many times how many hours a week you spend resting and rebuilding a muscle the rest of the time. So all your gains are actually made away from the gym. It's only when you let go of the gym, let go of lifting. That's when the muscles start to grow. The same with physical experiences, psychedelic experiences or meditative states. It's not so much that the experience itself matters, although it's mind blowing. It's what you can get out of the experience after it's over when you start to unpack and start to decondition yourself. That's just as important as the experience itself. But people, a lot of people get stuck in an experience and then they never see or what happens after the fires stop burning and you look at your side. Yes. As the incredible awakening alchemy that occurs, it's mission critical to take the time to reflect on and integrate said mystical experiences so that we can rebaseline ourselves to that more elevated, more awakened state the rest of the time. Yeah. All these masters like Osho and Ramana and Akutoli, Buddha, after their awakening, immediately they retrieve into silence for many years. And see, here's an analogy that I came up with. I think you'll be able to relate. So I look at the process of awakening as lighting a piece of wood or a log or a tree on fire. So at first the log is just a static, solid log, like a piece of wood. And then once you start to practice and you start to go through this journey of awakening, you start to light the wood on fire and you have this glimpses or this awakening experience where the wood catches fires for a little bit. Maybe you glimpse it for like five seconds, 10 seconds is the first time. And then the fire goes out. And then you start to go deeper and deeper again. You start to decondition yourself. That's where the darkening of the soul and the spiritual highs come in. You get the spiritual high and then after the spiritual high, what's left? You got to start looking in or and clean out what's left in your closet. And then as you go on deeper and deeper into the trip or into the path, the fire will burn more and more consistently until one day when you have your clinical final awakening, when you're abiding in non-duality permanently, the fire doesn't stop burning. It burns forever. But even after the fire ceases to stop burning, there's still going to be conditions left in your body mind that needs to be dissolved even after your clinical final awakening. So after you're abiding in rig power in natural state, the fire keeps on burning, but it takes years for the wood to completely burn away. That's why all those masters, they go into the silence because they realize even after the fire never ceases burning, you know, there's still conditions left from, I don't know, other lifetimes or even just this lifetime, 30, 35 years of conditions. And then when all the wood stopped burning, the fire is just the fire itself. The sun just burns without a single speck of like wood or solidity inside. And all the steps in between all the mystical experiences, they're almost like God giving you like candies. The God in the cloud like drops candies on the path for you and like you eat the candy, you're like, holy shit, I'm closer to it. I'm closer. But then you got to move on because once you experience something, you got to let it go and then move on to the path deeper and deeper. So you can't just be like eating candies on the same spot all day long, you know what I mean? Because the only way you can truly understand something is if you did let it go. Same with the experiences. Yeah. If you're still thinking about something, then you haven't understood it. It's only when we transcend and let go of the self that we really understand what the self is, for example. Yeah, this retreat into silence is really mission critical. It enables the reflective period that anchors the abiding of the true nature more consistently, which then enables one to, like you said in this final stage, really radiate out like the sun effortlessly, the love, light, peace, bliss, harmony and weave that into the fabric. In order to get to that, though, this process of going in because there's so much outside to do to play with to experience to toy with. And that is very, in a sense, distractive and it can intoxicate you like Maya, Lakshmi, just just bringing you in with the fishing reel. Like come over try this, try that. Oh, you haven't tried this one yet. You haven't tried that one yet. Try more, try more, try more. But you've already in so many ways communed, you've already united with your true nature. So take the time to actually abide and go inward and recommune and recommune and re-abide and re-abide until it really becomes so effortless. And then you're right that the this ascent and descent happened simultaneously. Last year Shri Aurobindo and the Mother Miral Fossa really taught me that. And you see it happening every single day still today. Today had a great interview, first interview with Ula, super incredibly perfect. And then elevating. And then right afterward, there was a process of a dark night, a descent right afterward, where I was being reflected some sort of a still a lack belief or impurity or a need to be validated or seen this type of stuff. And so immediately afterwards, so those two poles went in the same like three hour period. And so that's going to keep happening. Yeah. And then after that, you reach a state of equanimity where is that which gives rise to both the spiritual highs, the light and the spiritual low, the darkness. Because in true natural state, there's no distinction between lightness and darkness. There's no distinction between self and no self. Because if you ask a tree or the cloud, hey, what is consciousness? What is this? He's not going to do the fuck. It's just natural natural state. There's no difference between enlightenment and enlightenment. Yeah. Yeah. This is probably one of the most important conversational points probably is the natural state, a.k.a. be here now, a.k.a. rick rickba, a.k.a. void infinity, a.k.a. nothingness, everythingness, a.k.a. beyond coming and going, a.k.a. Buddha being being and not being a.k.a. Buddha plus Atlas Merged into one. So this the idea of being a flower that naturally effortlessly blossoms to the sun is very beautiful and very poetic. And yet there's also this will and this choice, this very clear. Am I aligned with God's love light or am I doing something distorted for one of my egoic layers of identity? Right. And so then that's where this quote, realignment back, back, back from the onion layer, you know, our abindo and the mother called it the first one is inward that you go inward through those onion layers inward and then this ascent and descent happened simultaneously and then you go outward. That's the integral yoga and that that that process of so-called going inward has to do with that realigning. So when we say things like it's a very macro level idea is that you're already enlightened and yet at the same time, are you attached to your egoic identity and onion layers? Because if you are, then it's going to your quote already enlightened is going to show up as anger and frustration and malevolence and not knowing your true nature and trying to extract from Maya to get happiness and peace, etc. So I think the last time we had you talk about your steps, your three steps to awakening, you said they were first with the ego and then the ego, then there's awareness watching the ego, right? And then even the awareness gets unplugged. So I want to delve deeper into that a little bit. Yeah, let's play for sure. So yeah, I have the same idea. The first year, just a separate self, your ego. And then you start to discover, oh, there's awareness, this infinite spacious awareness around us. But at that stage, at that stage, you're sort of just finding a new solace in awareness or the witness. You're transferring the self into this new ground of being, the spacious ground of being. Then that's when you feel like, oh, universal love. That's when you feel like this unity and oneness and compassion, you set up your life, love, things like that. And then the next step after that is the opposite. You go into emptiness. That's the death, that's celebrating death, like we just said, the two sides of the same coin. That's when you even remove the witness. Even the witness disappeared. And in that stage, even awareness ceases to be something relevant. Awareness and consciousness, you realize, was just a solace, a new kind of ground of being that is self heightened. But when the spell really started to drop away, you can't find consciousness or awareness. I mean, sure, I can say there's consciousness right now. I'm having an experience, but you no longer attach to the idea that I am consciousness or I am awareness. You sort of disappear into that what I call the warm blanket of the universe. And it's just natural, natural. That's the difference between our heart, which is someone who is obsessed with Nirvana and death. And both the cheetah, someone who is obsessed with love and compassion and universal love and all that stuff. There are actually two sides of the same coin. One celebrates life, the other celebrates death. One is like, Hey, man, I'm going to spend the rest of my life trying to wake people up. But that's still based on sort of a very subtle relation, sort of a quote unquote egoic relation, a little bit, just a little bit tiny, tiny bit, way less than, you know, the egoistic in the very first stage. But the Arahah, he's the one that says, Hey, man, I'm going to go sit in my Nirvana and everyone else is not woke. He's still attached to the idea of separation just a tiny bit. He wants to enjoy his own Nirvana. He thinks that Nirvana is better than everything else. Buddhahood is the combination of the two while transcending both. That's the difference between enlightenment and Buddhahood or enlightenment in the natural state. Buddhahood just becomes a normie. He just becomes a normal person. He's no distinction at all between death and life. Nirvana and Sankara, non duality and duality. All those concepts from the Buddha's perspective, they all seem empty. Buddha said it, even the Dharma is empty. If you really understood what Buddha was saying, every insight, every wisdom, every mystical experience that you accumulate throughout the path, you just throw it all away. But that doesn't mean that you can't experience the nature, actually experience them even deeper. You can expense all the states deeper. They just become sort of like costumes, like glasses you put on. Oh, today I'm going to put on the non duality glasses. Today I'm going to put on the eternal glasses. Today I'm going to put on the evener glasses. Today I'm going to put on the awareness glasses. Today I'm going to put on the eco glasses. It's all fair play. It's all the same because awareness and consciousness is the last lens of perception. It's still a lens of perception. It's clear. That's why people miss it. They cleared out everything. But then they're going around saying they're awareness and consciousness, but that's still a lens of perception. Once you remove that, you become more like an animal than a god or a human. It's almost like you transcend god and human. Yeah, it just feels like you feel more like an animal, just supernatural, natural state. Yeah, there's this, like we described, we can take this from the, this being the absolute, you being the absolute exactly where you're at right now. And that, right, totally. And we can take it from there. And then we can also take it from as we were describing where there is this alignment with love, light. And then there is the distortion of the ego layer out here where I'm trying to get peace and happiness from Maya. I don't know that we actually share our awareness that we share our source that we are the creator of this reality. When you don't know that data, you are so much more running algorithms and scripts that create suffering. Okay. So now we have that. So that's number one, like you listed is the ego. So these layers of identity, and then we become really, really subtly aware as we go inward, we become subtly aware of awareness itself of observation itself of witnessing. And as we do that, that is also a gym repetition. It's both, it's a gym repetition. It's, it's both the gradual and sudden merged into one. And so you're, you're gonna over time, even today, still, there are moments where the atlas costume is much more aware of awareness. And there are days when it's not as aware of awareness, there are days when it's very aware of being source of infinite possibility. Yeah, it's all the same like that. And so, okay, so there's that. So step, that second step is, you know, really kind of becoming hyper vigilantly aware of awareness itself. And then that's usually when people unlock this heart chakra and they start, they feel that unity, that love, that cosmic consciousness, that Christ consciousness, you begin feeling that and you love service, you love, love, love is the vibration of the entire planet and the whole harmonic that's occurring and the whole lila, the whole divine play. And then there's the recognizing that even awareness itself, just like in a dream, when we simulate out our dreamed environment, we also simulate out the observer itself in the dreamed environment. And so like you said, it's the very last attribute is the actual observer, the actual awareness itself is the very last attribute to also, in a sense, transcend, make it into an object and transcend even the all inclusive awareness. And then there's this emptiness, nothingness, the very nirvana, the very, and this is where it becomes two sides of the same coin, because you don't stay there. It's not a place to stay in, you take what you recognize as all of these being dreams and dreamed explorations of a one infinite intelligence, and you decide to then become at merge with Atlas at the same time and weave your enlightened realizations into society in terms of architecting the frameworks that the maximize prosperity and abundance and play and harmony and creativity and gifts and uniqueness. Because ultimately, intelligent infinity adores the process of expressing itself like fireworks. And that's why the Frank costume looks a certain way and this Atlas costume looks a certain way. It's because we get to express ourselves. That's why the song and the way express yourself done done done done done done done done done done express yourself and Katy Perry, baby, you're a fire. So that's also what we're talking about. The last stage is just the last picture of the Ten Ox Xan sequence, the full circle where you kind of you catch the ox. At first, you see the first stage, you see the footprints of the ox and you see the tail of the ox. The ox represents enlightenment for those of you who don't know this picture. Maybe we can pull that out. Did we put that last time or did it? No, we didn't. Tell me. The Xan ox, 10 pictures, 10 steps towards enlightenment or natural state is the 10 pictures of the parable. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think every tradition has its own way of talking about those steps, those processes, which at the end, there's no process at all. There's no path at all. Yeah, there's the there's the 10 bulls, which is that one. Okay, so let's let's pull it up. Right. Is that the 10 bull? This is the 10. Yeah, in search of the bull discovery of the footprints. That's when you have a little glimpse of it. And then perceiving the bull is when you have a glimpse of it. Footprints is more like, Oh, I read it somewhere. I read it somewhere. And then finally, you perceive it with a glimpse of the absolute infinity or the natural state. And then you go on deeper into the path, you practice even more, and then you catch the bull. Catch the bull. And then you tame the bull. That's when you really start to like integrate with this thing. It's it's bull is such a great metaphor because it's huge. I mean, it is nature itself. It's not easy to tame. Right. That's why all those teachers, they go into like 10, seven years, they say it takes seven, seven to 10 years to integrate this thing, which makes sense. This one day master said, it took me 12 years to get over it. He's talking about that. Yeah. Yeah, it takes 12 years to ride the bull and tame it. Wow. Switch from your personal identity being this small self inside the head, it's limited meat soup to like all of reality. That's huge. That's a process. Yeah. Yeah. We're not going to go to the gym and bench press 300 pounds day one. Yeah. You're not. Yeah. Totally. Or another analogy is after you benched around your pound and then you go back into the world, how are you going to interact with people? How are you going to pick up an ant with the strength of someone who can benched around your pound when you used to picking up an ant with no strength. Oh, it's easy. But now you have a body of a 300 pound bench presser and the strength of a 300 pound bench presser. How are you going to pick up an ant and not hurt it? And then you have a number seven, the bull transcended. That's when you sort of let go of the whole paradigm of spirituality awakening. They're probably even out of awakening. And then both a bull and a self are transcended. And then you reach the source and then you return to society. So basically the last picture, you just become somebody that's so normal. There's nothing spiritual about you. You become invisible to society. And then you stop even a fuck even about trying to share it. If people ask you, go ahead and tell them, right? Yeah. But then the need to teach to share the need to even stay silent to be in the source to be all, I mean, Nirvana, don't fuck with me. I'm the mountain brah. That even that's gone. And then there's a lot of pictures that some pictures have this, the last one of this is this normal dude in the market and he's drinking wine because there's no, he says no distinction at all between Nirvana and Samkara. He says no distinction of being awake and being not awake. It's all just, it's sort of like the last picture is sort of go back to being an individual again. Instead of like perceiving everything is of course you can still perceive everything as God. But you sort of the individuality sort of return and you can express all the previous stages through, you know, just the meat suit, just the empty meat suit. You become a free, authentic human being. You can send being nothing, you can send being the Godhead, you can send awareness and everything, which includes them all. That's why you say, man, after before enlightenment is a mountain during enlightenment, it's not the mountain after enlightenment. There's a mountain again, except that's when the mountain really just perceives itself during enlightenment. You still a being here perceiving the crazy mountain. Holy shit. Mountain is like, Oh, it's like an attitude DMT trip. But that's still perceiving and filtering through a sort of like a separate being that's awakened. But even that has to be like, Oh, until there's just the mountain again. But this time the mountain is just eternally gazing at itself, infinity expressing itself, because there is a difference between infinity expressing itself and eternity gazing back at itself versus the human character perceiving infinity, the human character perceiving eternity, that that that that to those two stages that during the process, that's the stage we're talking about where you continue to dissolve the rest of your conditions even after a full awakening, because it takes a while it takes a long time to condition yourself in one of the really important blind spot, one of the really one of the conditions that people tend to miss during this process, maybe the last layer is the condition of the whole paradigm of spirituality. Yes, yes, because a lot of time after awakening, people continue to play the game of spirituality. Yeah, I mean, all that's fine. All that's fine. All that's great. But they're kind of just they're peeling away a layer and they build it up again by just, you know, sort of playing this continually being stuck in the game of spirituality, spirituality is like a mother, the godfather of all other programs, you go into spirituality to dissolve all the previous programs, the sex program, like being a rich person program, the CEO program, the fitness program, the science program, and then you go into a spirituality program, you're like, this is the program, but then it's still a program itself after you beat all the levels and accumulated all the wisdoms and all the candies and all the levels of consciousness. You had that spirituality itself, that program must self deconstruct as well to go back to a natural state. That's the difference between a natural state and this guy who's enlightened has halo on his head. And this the natural state guy wouldn't care he could be a porn star or a prostitute and he wouldn't care if people perceive that as enlightenment or non-alignment. The formation of even spirituality itself arose from the realignment to our true nature as intelligent infinity endlessly expressing itself because we had the distortions of those egoic onion layers and that we became attached to form and identity and separation and trying to extract peace and happiness rather than knowing our nature as peace and happiness. And so spirituality formed as a word to realign people away from those egoic onion layers towards God's love, light, unity, service to others and that's the whole notion is once you know and you're abiding then you like Frank said you're in this natural state that's so harmonic that there's no impulse whatsoever for you to have to I have to share my goal with people. It's only when a true disciple that's confused comes and asks you know what is the natural state then you this darshan that's this enlightenment transmission that just naturally spontaneously creatively comes through to directly point them at exactly what they are and also to help them refine is we give these metaphors and symbolic analogies like recognizing oneself as the sky in which the thoughts and the perceptions and emotions and beliefs appear and disappear and so you are the awareness sky that is impersonal and eternal and then you are actually the creator of even the sky itself and the clouds and so you're the source of the infinite possibility stream and so to sort of recognize that the whole of what we're talking about is in itself this perfection that's ineffable and yet and yet is so important because you and I if there was if the people we were seeking to learn from were just like there is nothing to do there's nothing to do we we would be yeah still very I still think it's very important to share I think I think it all depends on if you align with it or not like if you have a resistance if you feel authentic doing that if it's aligned towards the absolute then you can do anything you want really but when you align with the absolute it's just there's very little chance that you're gonna hurt other people that's why I say just do what in the fuck you want just don't hurt other people but if you're like you can share if you want you can share however form or shape that you want doesn't have to be just oh I can't share unless someone comes talk to me because that's all spiritual ego it's not really like that either you know it's it's all about how aligned you are to truth when you do you know not just sharing dharma but anything because at the end of it the source that vibrates into the highest meditative states of godhead is the same source that vibrates into a tree or a leaf there's more truth in a branch from a tree or a leaf than the entire paradigm of spiritual knowledge because there really is no such in a spiritual knowledge because enlightenment is the end of all knowledge you just abide in the not knowing abiding in the not knowing is very very difficult because the mind you understand it's just like spirituality is something that you you can really all this knowledge just is great you can really all those experiences all this stuff at this end of the day if you don't throw all that away and just be a fucking tree then you're still gonna have some clingy and suffering so the simultaneity of absolute ineffable perfection mystery enigma just simultaneously with these maps symbols analogies metaphors for those that don't feel like i am a flower growing towards the sun but they feel like there's a mind inside of the flower that is toiling them around from suffering to suffering that there's a way to go warm and then that's what we're talking about and then even then when you get to the warm alignment then again go through the process of the absolute absence of symbolization and maps and meaning and all that and then once you've really abided as that as well then recognize okay well there is naturally spontaneously will be a time when you will turn and then serve those that do seek as well and then you can put on the back the costume of all the different knowledges of different spiritual or different lengths of the perception of how to experience the world perceptually but then you're just not attached to any of them you're not attached to a certain school or certain path or all this experience is more true than your experience you sort of just detach yourself from all of it and you realize that all of it is it but none of it is it at the same time that's when you transcend being a non-being the absolute and the relative oh yeah i have this analogy but since we love analogy so much i have one more analogy that you're like the first the first stage is that you do a little boy and discover that you have a penis and then you discover that you have a penis and you can ejaculate and in the third stage you discover that you can fuck a woman or two or three whatever and then the fifth stage or the fourth or whatever you discovered that you could fuck the universe while the universe is fucking you and the final stage enlightenment is when the universe is fucking itself and then you sink into the natural state which includes but transcends all the other stages you can steal fat if you want or fuck the universe or fuck two girls or just you know be a flower it's a reflexivity that really matters it's a reflexivity see no a lot of people get stuck in this idea of no self and emptiness yeah because that's just one view even non-duality is just one dimension of life when you first access that you think this is it this is everything well it is true but then once you let that go you realize oh i i never truly understood it until i let it go and then now you have this different lens to play with you can you can wear the lens of a self you can wear the lens of no self you can wear the lens of whatever self in between but only when you let go of all the different layers of the mind can you comfortably put them on like a wardrobe without being attached to it truly being an invisible man who is capable of putting on any type of wardrobes and costumes and not feel any friction yeah i adore that that's so strong it's the the process of let's start with if even in the first place because there are still quite quite enlightened parents conscious awake parents and also conscious awake enlightened indigenous traditions where they don't even allow in the first place for the egoic layers of identity like onion to to form in the first place where does the go yeah so it's it's right away from the beginning it's true embodied knowledge of being an expression of infinity of firework and being both that emptiness and all form and so that's beautiful to have that and that's definitely a huge part of the planetary pedagogy as we get to our more awakened civilization now in the 3d third density matrix that we were born into that when we talk about matrix we reference things like government politicians propaganda economic machinery high fructose corn syrup fast food all these things that are like they're the lockless locks that anchor us lockless lock and that our process like you described it goes from a place of you can say that the like you said you little boy with a penis and then you learn you can ejaculate and then you're like oh my gosh i can have sex and and then there's the you transcend again so this is a really important part because most i would say most people are at the place where they're having sex they're really enjoying swiping on the tinder and and platforms where they can hook up culture this type of stuff i can hook up culture it's almost like if you're doing something for approval of another like colleague in your work that's the same thing just like your identity is based on how the other party perceives you that's perfect that's the part where you find out you could have sex with people that makes you happy and then you realize you could have sex with the entire universe while the universe is fucking you and that's when you get into spirituality in the pinnacle when the universe fucks itself and then you chop all of that yes yes so incrementally go through the explanation this is really a beautiful way to to share this frank this was really nice is that that when we go and we seek to have bliss and peace through our orgasms from having sex and we get validation as well my whole identity is based on my costume being validated by other costumes but we don't but these are when you're in the third density you're not calling it costumes because you don't know that that i is even shared and so you think that these are separate entities and whatnot and so so what happens is then you work into piercing that veilless veil and getting to a point where you're like wow this is the universe fucking itself this this is beautiful i can i can have sex with the whole universe prana even the word itself that life force that comes every single one of these inhalations is so dm te every single one of them and so when we really tap into that then we get to a point where i'm i'm having sex with the phytoplankton and the trees of the planet as the whole oxygenation of the planet is occurring and i'm taking 20 000 of those per day and so then you're getting into a more much more spiritual aching states and then yes the universe fucking itself and then realizing that that whole infinity expressing itself endlessly and then the natural state as is written in the banner as frank described is when you drop all all of the categorizations and instead you're able to like a ninja like a jedi playfully put on these different lenses and jump between you know one day if you're feeling spontaneous go and fuck a girl after you go go into a god my state or simultaneously maybe you got my state and then afterwards you just gotta be a tree yeah go yeah going and so this is i would say that the natural state is sort of what happens when you drop in many ways when you drop your point of view and you drop ideas and you drop symbolization and what you do is you go on a walk and as you're on the walk you surrender to the absolute flow and what happens is you're walking and then you see a flower and you stop and you yes you enjoy this you enjoy that aroma of the flower and it's it's beautiful and you actually this is like a little kid that's it's like it's like being a little kid an old man and a monkey more so than be a little spiritual person and in that and this is the thing is that and then after the flower that there's the the person that's chilling on on their bike and right on the sidewalk where you're walking and that you guys look at each other and you smile and at that point a many people if they haven't you know played around with this sort of ability to navigate through this they they may just simply walk right past and you can walk right past if that's what arises but it's the confrontation of the souls i've really enjoyed that a lot is when you in a sense you stop and you do post smile you're like you're feeling that peace and bliss of the natural state and the person even though they might not be at such an elevated state they become like you know to me this happened a couple days ago they said they're like you were meant to show up in my life like i have been wondering about this exact thing you were meant to show up and to talk to me about this natural bliss and peace and so that's something really important is undergoing this confrontation of the souls and because that's ultimately what this is about is about every single one of these infinite fireworks undergoing a relational process with itself to awaken to its true blissful peaceful amazing nature yeah yep yep and i love that that was a really good breakdown from you and that again if we can take the these different layers lenses and be able to swiftly effortlessly like a jedi navigate through them then we're really in a deeper more embodied less driven by one of those distorted kinks it's almost like the distorted kinks can sometimes drive when you get stuck at one of those levels and then or with one of those lenses you get stuck with one of the lenses like there's nothing to do and nowhere to go and nobody to be and nobody here and this is just a dream you don't exist that's become one of the most common like neo advaita like this is it this is the end this is the truth and then what happens is when somebody parrots that message because of mimesis were memetic creatures that then they wonder why do i still suffer why do i have anger why do i have malevolence towards other people because you haven't had stream entry yet you haven't even entered into your own stream of clouds appearing and disappearing you haven't become aware of awareness and so you have to recognize that that this is what we're talking about your ability to navigate all of that right right so i would say there are three levels to realization first is intellectual and second is an experience and third is a realization right so a lot of times we hear so many spiritual talks and then we only understand intellectually and we don't have an experience of it even with the experience people tend to get stuck there because without any realization the experience doesn't get locked in because the realization is something that transcends both the experience and the intellectual understanding but includes them both i would say realization it's something like a permanent shift in perception a permanent shift in how you are being in the world exactly embody the war it's very this world it transcends the physical and the spiritual it transcends experience so we get confused a lot of the times between experience and realization and also between uh intellectual understanding and experience there's so many spiritual talks out there and i was talking to one of my clients yesterday i was like how is your meditation going and then he was like you know i do meditate here and there but why meditate when i can just listen to uh non-duality lectures on youtube i'm like you can uh if you're doing like self-inquiry on top of that as a supplement but if you only listen to lectures if you only read books that's like back to the gym analogy that's like looking at a workout program or watch ronnie calmer workout without you ever having to step into the gym and grow muscles yourself that's the difference and then you have realization which is taking the muscle okay now i have a lot of experiences building muscle now have a great i have a six pack i'm strong now how am i going to carry this new mitsu this new physique this new uh consciousness into the world and live as an embodied being being embodied in the world while carrying this new found physique mitsu consciousness whatever that's realization that's what i like talking to you man because like you're like you're not just stuck in just spiritual paradigm you have all this different like nudes notes that you're just connecting i mean i'm cool with talking to people who are only spiritual too but like there's a lot more to there there's a lot there you know there's a lot more nuanced i guess this whole thing is a lot more nuanced not just spirituality but reality itself it's a multifaceted jewel the unfoldment of it depends on how what light you use to filter through what lens it's it's infinite i was reading uh do you know vikinstein the the philosopher the luke wick vikinstein the great australian philosopher you know him right yeah i was going to talk to you about how i wrote that down too vikinstein so maybe you can pull out the tractatus and we can read a couple lines i think vikinstein is extremely he's on the verge of enlightenment he's playing with his mind in brand logic so much that any moment he could just completely bust through it but he didn't or maybe he did i don't know but based on like his writing and the way he lives his lives i don't think he's gotten there but he is so close so the tractatus is basically the only book that he published his aim and goal of this book is to answer and demolish all philosophical debates arguments statements discourses in the last thousands of years since play though and how is it going to go about doing that so he wrote this little book a tiny little manual called the tractatus and then i think we should let people see what the tractatus looks like there's just like the little axioms there it's not even like a book it's almost like it's just like a statement after statement after statement it doesn't have even have sentences there there there we go the war that that's that's it this one two three four five that's what the book consists of basically he comes up with these little axioms based on his perfection and his training in logic and mathematics and then he comes with no one can understand this but i don't i don't understand it but i understand what he's trying to do so number one the world is everything that is the case number two what is the case effect is the existence of states affairs it's almost like a zan koan it's almost like a like a haiku or something really mystical actually he's had a few mystical experiences but he he's not like abiding in it and a lot of this comes from his mystical experiences but he filters his mystical experiences through this lens of like super hardcore logic and mathematics and it's just it just shows you how like infinite ways of the vacuum manifests itself even in someone whose mind is completely scientific and logical he's going after the same thing the most interesting sentence in this whole book which is premised again is to demolish transcend all philosophical inquiries from playdough to sacreties to Aristotle to uh i don't know Heisenberg, Sartre, Rousseau, every single philosopher he wants to demolish and transcend the very last sentence of this book let's read that last sentence that has been my favorite quote since i was like 18 but i never understood what that really truly meant until very recently that i truly understood what he's trying to do i even put that last quote in my tinder profile back then would have like zenga that was my like you know the quote in my headline the last quote the last one the last sentence of this very short book what is it maybe i can search it what cannot be speak of must be passive in silence there you go that's the last one this one the main thesis right yeah where's one cannot speak therefore one must be silent so yeah what cannot be speak of must be passive in silence that's the last sentence of this book this short little book that aims to transcend all philosophy and if you truly understand that sentence this book itself must also self-deconstruct so it's a letter that you used to climb and when you get to the other side of the you throw it away so vikistan would tell you if you're still reading my book and trying to understand what it means you haven't understood my book yeah yeah so this book could be kind of metaphorical to the whole system or whole paradigm the whole game of spirituality one to truly understand spirituality is self-deconstruct but funny thing is after like 20 years of saying nothing he went back to like he would become like a kindergarten teacher or something became a gardener or something he still came back and had a new system of philosophy even after he said oh no i have nothing more to say he still came back and still wanted to to share between he finally realized after 20 years emptiness and form are identical yeah yeah that that that that kind of like the process is is there for every everything it's not it's not just in spirituality even someone who is into philosophy he realized okay i have defeated philosophy i have nothing more to say because all these philosophers because he's basically he's using language to eat itself this whole book is language eating itself so he said that the reason why all these previous philosophers are always arguing and never get to the bottom of the truth of what is the mind what is reality what is athlete they can never get to the bottom of it why because they're using language they're using the mind to understand the mind which cannot be possible you understood that one so he said okay i'm just gonna translate i'm not throwing away language throw away the mind throwing everything very very similar to spiritual awakening you cannot use the mind to understand the mind be still thinking about something still discussing and you haven't truly understood it he understood that yeah in many ways yeah this excites me because what but wekenstein was expressing was very much like what kurt girdle was also expressing yes yeah and which which douglas hoffstetter has picked up on and is now strange looping yes and we have donald hoffman also taking a lot of these ideas and bringing them forth and we have eric weinstein as well taking a lot of this bringing forth it's it's exciting to see the more logic and science and rationality based approaches also as you shared with us the reason why we came to this as an exploration was because you gave this idea of this lattice work and that when one does not get stuck in a specific dogmatic parroting style of behavior pattern with the nature to reality what they do is they open themselves up to the process of actually being able to as you learn about what truly the bitcoin white paper and satoshi nakamoto and peer to peer frictionless exchange of value truly is and when you also open yourself up to dna and the code of life and understanding atc g understanding transcriptomics and proteomics and metabolomics when you really get to a place of when you start putting all these things up along with you know the heart sutra and all this other great stuff up in this lattice work you become a jedi you just swiftly navigate frictionlessly and blissfully and playfully and peacefully and you can put on all these different lenses and that is joseph and the code of many colors that is the chameleon consciousness that is that the octopus the cosmic octopus the cosmic octopus this day feels like if i could be one spiritual animal to represents this thing it will be a cosmic octopus i think we did we talk about that last time as a metaphor we did a little and do you remember the emoji that i sent you yes yes they're just recent really recently yeah that was perfect that that was the emoji yeah yeah for those who uh who didn't listen to the last one or who hasn't uh heard me spoken about the cosmic octopus well it's basically just feels like every sensation every everything experiences your tentacle even your meat soup it's an octopus it's a cosmic octopus with no center so even your your body and your body your mind your body is just one of the tentacles in this infinite reality where it's just constantly shapeshifting dependent codependent rising with the environment and the mind of the octopus is the body octopus is totally non-dual it thinks with its entire being entire body it flips itself inside out so that the language and the visualization and thoughts of the octopus is one with the physicality of the body that's what's magical about the octopus and the octopus itself is one with the environment because it's however it thinks it's not just the importance of the mind body but importance of the environment so the environment the sea the ocean the mind the body of the octopus are one and they become invisible that's what happened to the the the enlightened being at the last picture he becomes invisible only when he wants to then he can emerge and ejaculate his cosmic calm like the octopus like ejaculating the uh the the ink and just you know throw his cosmic spiritual metaphysical common people and then mind factor people if you want check this out to synthesize with to synthesize with the cosmic octopus the villi inside of the gastrointestinal tract oh right so so each one yeah make it bigger make it bigger yeah so in a sense each one of these is is like each one of these is like the you and I these costumes right so these are like the fireworks of intelligent infinity or like these tentacles in the cosmic octopus and so what you're doing is you are that which from this intestinal tract is what is absorbing all of this beautiful delicious experience of this creation that is dreamed and that is exploratory and that is lila and that is in relation to all of the other fireworks villi tentacles and so there's all these really great sort of analogies to use in the in the process of of discussing this and I would also like to loop this back to what frank mentioned along with the lattice work what's mission critical is the actual realization so as we said at the beginning of the program you're already it it it's already it and that's a beautiful teaching but it's one of the layers another one of the lenses layers is that realization is the process of becoming aware of awareness itself rather than having this mind that is on these layers of identity and trying to extract peace and happiness and all this type of stuff rather align yourself with the god's love light that is already omnipresent at play rather than the layer of your costume that you're attached to trying to prove and get validation and creating malevolence and suffering this type of stuff so it's mission critical to recognize that there are these lenses that you can wear in the process and that realization is what we talked about simultaneously so this is why the process people wonder sometimes they're like well why even do these you know gym repetitions and one now what's the point of doing repetitions well for me for example five years ago till now it went from a place of being totally unaware totally unconscious totally algorithmic totally scripted to now in a place of bliss peace sovereignty and just in the feeling of true ineffable perfection whereas you know even a year ago even a year ago the feeling of ineffable perfection there was not a causeless joy in an imperturbable peace at the stage that it's at today and so that's the whole thing of why abide is that it richens it deepens it deepens yeah it deepens even after you make the quantum shift after even after you light the wood on fire permanently there is always going to be more deeper and deeper stuff that you can explore not just through spirituality or meditation itself but through other fields um see that's why the the tentacles like I can be looking at I can experience in the cloud right now or the wind or the birds they're all my tentacles and then looking at you is the tentacle looking at a piece of art is tentacle looking at words are tentacles too it's not like one tentacles more true than the other it's like you know that the absolute can manifest itself into concepts too it's not like oh no concept I'm not gonna read any books I'm only gonna stay in the now you know I mean then you're already living yourself to whatever it is that that that that's that's why you always have to go meta and by meta I don't exactly mean going a level above although it's kind of like that it's it's it's more like just dissolving yourself eating yourself from the inside like the stink biting its own tail that's what I really really what I mean by going meta because a lot of people when I used to do that when I was going meta with the mind I used to have one level and I will come up with another level to look at the level and then another level to look at the level but then you just edit on more and more layers right true going meta is like a strange loop where whatever it is the case eats itself so not just the philosopher that we talked about either Wittgenstein or you know the bunch of artists and sorry scientists and intellectual you mentioned but even in spirituality it's talking about the same thing Buddha says even emptiness is empty you think you realize emptiness even that's empty go beyond the beyond go transcend the transcendence oh I'm sitting in the transcendence well you transcend the transcendence right and even transcendence must eat away itself to truly transcend and people like Ramana Mahasi he says things like use the mind to dissolve the mind same deal they're all talking about the same thing it's like the God thing you know the system needs to eat away itself to really understand the system the it needs to eat away itself it sounds like there's an ice cream truck playing in the background of your it's actually a music music it's trash it's trash truck oh it's a trash truck that plays ice cream truck music that's great we should do that in the u.s. Taiwan is great we should do that in the u.s. we should have trash trucks playing ice cream truck music in the u.s. and then we can have our little get together in there we can do a podcast in there and we can have people come in and you know we have a little fun fun guy in there I put cosmic octopus in the banner for us because it's really deepening its poignancy as an analogy here in this costume as well because when you when you quote experience especially the shift from the 3d matrix c third density human to the fourth density love heart chakra opening when you experience that what it enables you to do if you really train this you can really become like those cosmic octopus tentacles and you can in a sense jump between all of these unique aspects of that cosmic unity christ consciousness of all being love light inter playing with itself infinity fucking itself and so what you can do is you can do things like for example I like to do this fun exercise there's two that I'll I'll give one of them is it's a pretty simple at any point on the planet there are approximately one billion people asleep at any time on the planet and so what you can do is you can tap in to that collective that is asleep that one billion of the eight billion that are asleep in the seven billion that are awake and so out of the seven billion that are awake probably about five or so billion of them are in the process of doing something in the in the machinery and economic machinery political machinery and then maybe another two or so billion of them are either in the morning or at night in their cycle so more relaxed type thing so tap into that aspect and then another one to if you really want to kind of play at these higher levels is you begin to hold on to beyond your awareness to a more impersonal awareness so you begin holding simultaneously so you can do this with like two people and begin holding the as you have a conversation with somebody you're holding both your awareness and their awareness as the I the great I am and you're holding it for both and then you expand that out to three four five six expand that out to a whole city expand that out to the whole planet and then what you get if you really want to start playing at these kind of bigger leagues of being able to tap into even awareness itself as an attribute what you can do is you can begin visualizing things like this where you begin taking what is this last attribute of awareness and I can see if I can get a nice little zoom on that there we go so you are source that makes the witnessing of infinite transience and so can you visualize the process of you being that which is this all inclusive awareness that is all over the planet watching witnessing creating playing all this cool stuff on the planet and doing that endlessly with different creations different civilizations different form different costumes all this type of stuff and so this is these are the little styles of fun like gym repetitions as activities that we can do and they're very in a sense under the they're not really in the spiritual nomenclature nobody really gives you this example of this is why frank and I also resonate really deeply is because we both care a lot about the visualization of the nature as well and when you do that and this is you know stuff like stuff like this is actually courtesy of you know this like this is courtesy of frank from from six weeks ago right infinity expressing itself you get visualization visualizations like this that help you a lot in the process of recognizing your true nature and there's another couple in here that frank passed along that are really strong this one was one of the recent ones as well let me close the window really quick it's getting noisy perfect you go do that so this is there we go this is another one that you know that we recently made to synthesize with nature because you have the hummingbird that comes and sucks the nectar out of the flower yeah the same way that the same way that humans suck the nectar out of the big bang that's amazing so there's ones like that and then there's you know this is one that also frank passed along that was what you just described that exercise you said that the contemplation that you did where you kind of expand your awareness first to cover the other person is if you guys have the same awareness and then to two people to three people the entire planet to the whole universe and then you said the next step is to even go beyond that and realize that this even that awareness has a source has the unmanifested and then that I mean unmanifested can manifest awareness or it can manifest other different types of lenses of perception and that's exactly what we talked about earlier too it's like that initial step of expanding your awareness to love to unity consciousness that's sort of that the the love step the the Jesus Christ Christ consciousness step the oneness and then you go to the emptiness step where you realize that you go to that what I call the the dark light of the absolute which manifests both darkness and lightness right which manifests not just infinite uh Christ consciousness but everything else so you go back and forth between those two extremes that's why we talked about earlier you want to share you want to go into silence you want to share you want to go into silence you know one step is absolutely infinity as I call it and the next step is absolute nothingness but it's the merging of the two it's the simultaneity of the two that is the realization that's it yeah that is the realization yes it is and that's what the mystics the sages have been pointing to and that you will you will never come to the end of all of the creative possibilities that you are you talk about exploring and you will also never be any of those you will always be formless emptiness as well and so and when we say go beyond birth and death go beyond coming and going we mean be the ineffable perfection that is yeah yeah and the only thing you can see there's nothing to say about this thing except for oh this is a table that's a chair right there it's so simple yeah and a piece a piece the and this is also we wanted to share this with you guys also let's share our boom boom the sculpture of god yeah that's a good one yeah the first the first reaction the first thought that I had when I came across this picture was during my entrance to stream entry on my second retreat so I was meditating for at a gomikai retreat 12 hours a day on the 10th day the last sit on the 10th day I was like I knew something was happening I just knew what was happening I was like I have to sit through the sit and however long it takes I'm gonna stay there by myself even after the gomikai discourse if I have to I just knew that I had to break through something here I could feel it so I'll sit in there after like three hours I could see this image sort of emerging just from the distance at first it was very small it looks almost exactly like this at first it was very small and then it became bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger that's when I was already sort of doing self inquiry sort of abiding in the awareness phase that's what allows this manifest because I was already pulling away from the franken entity from the the meditator entity even yeah and this thing emerged and I was like the first reaction I had was like holy fuck this is fucking creepy it's creepy because it's first of all it's so familiar it's almost like that's it's almost like that's home or like that that's always been me at the same time it's extremely alien there's a paradox there that's the paradox but and number three I was just frightened I was fighting for two reasons because that do I really want to die do I really want to merge with the absolute or god do I really want to see my true nature which is why we run away from the inward here's the quote that we can put out everything that we do in life as separate individuals is to avoid the nothingness that you are is to avoid this this is nothingness which is why it's also everything and then I was like everything that I knew and experienced throughout my whole lifetime and from everybody is in there that's the potentiality of are manifested which is the same as the manifested is this is this it everything we do in life is to avoid nothingness nothingness that we are that we are let me I was like I could just stop meditating and then just you know go back to my life or I could merge with this thing so this thing it's almost like the screen the screen the screen of god and then this is the screen of frank which is already detaching itself from itself that's why the screen of god who appeared in the perception of the screen of frank but then they actually the same thing so I was like once I realized that man I have to do this I don't know when I'm gonna get another chance because after like 10 days of meditating for 12 hours I you know this thing came up I was like you know I don't know when I'm gonna get another chance to die bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and then I was like I blanked out and I thought I could enter it that was my original um initial thought I was like I thought I could enter it and go into a tunnel and experience god unity or whatever but then that wasn't a case I totally blinked out and that is the the the secession right there in the secession there's just nothing it's almost like a few friends that are taking away from the the cinema of your life if there's still something it's not it so I completely blinked out there was no experience at all there's not even an experience of nothing or god nothing which is almost like I fell asleep but in a very high concentrated state that's death right there and then I came back in and then I just got sort of got popped out of the god of the godhead um and then it was just like whole body bliss and then ever since after that I knew I entered stream entry the first stage of awakening according to a theravada Buddhist tradition now I used to pretty attached to those past but not anymore but just in accordance to the theravada tradition after that event was when everything just goes exponentially faster and faster and then my perception after that I just shipped it I could feel like you know my perception was panoramic 360 but there was still a bubble I still haven't broken through awareness yet so at the time I was like my head was my head got really big but there was still a distortion there was still the awareness I could still sense a bubble so that bubble has to expand expand expand and the character has to continue string string string the secret has to continue string string until the secret is nothing and there's no even bubble of awareness there's not even consciousness there's no way that the self can hide not even an awareness not even consciousness not even nothing so that was my first reaction when I saw that picture you brought me back to memory of entering stream entry and then uh yeah that that is the the sculpture of the absolute that is your that is that the picture even though you can't really depict what your true nature is and by the way from the communion that I've had as well validates also as well as the communion from the people that I've talked to and featured on the show around their realization so that's really validating the many paths one end and also that when you asked me a little bit ago to also unpack and describe what it is to transcend even the all-inclusive awareness itself it is this it's becoming the nothingness that we that we purposely are avoiding because the nature is the perfect womb of the eternal fire working away from nothingness the whole thing is infinity expressing itself away from nothingness endlessly fractaling just like this image the sculpture of god is also in many ways it is as we had when we first pulled up the program it is like you see when you look up our homies over at mathstown these guys are the homies because it really is this this is what we're talking about we're talking about stuff like this this being it this being infinity endlessly fractaling expressing itself as your unique costume endlessly your costume Frank's costume the 8 billion costumes right now the next creation that has different vehicles that has a different civilization that has a different history that has a different rock orbiting a star that doesn't even have rocks orbiting stars that doesn't even have nervous systems it doesn't even have dna it has all this different you can never come to the end and you will always be something new you will always be something unique yet you're also nothingness yes yeah and so get used to you know Benoit Mandelbrot has this incredible math that then we turn into the visualization that is as close as we can right now and Frank and I are aiming to collaborate on creating visuals that even help us recognize not only this but also this specific expression of our creation and then going beyond that as well and so just you know tap into stuff like this and it will enable you like we talk about this a lot on the show but if you really just do simple stuff like if you contemplate simple words like contemplate here's here's a very short list you have it's the inconceivable in in fanboy inevitable that gives rise even to those to that image to the animation right yeah exactly you are that which ineffably gives rise to the infinite possibility yes yes correct and that's why when you have people like Nisar Ghats at the Maharaj he would endlessly he would refuse whenever there would be any games of identity being played he would say you are that in Siddharah Meshwar would also say this who is his guru that as you think so you are so you're going to play the game of identity you're going to be your onion layers I'm going to only be the source of infinite possibility that's my nature that's who I am that's what this is and so I am that and I am not what you think is this body and so this form and so when you contemplate even intellectually intellectually as Frank indicated you can work your way like gym repetitions up to the realize to experience and to realize and to realization because these are your words when you look up things like infinity when you look up things like eternity when you look up things like automata and recursion what you realize is that we are that these are the words that we are when you look at the way that a cell hits a cell checkpoint and then undergoes mitosis when you look at the way that two humans come together and reproduce to make a human which then finds another human to reproduce make a human just like the oak tree drops an acorn that then makes more oak trees that drop more acorns it's just recursion it's automata go to the big bang poof and what happens automata self-making self-producing endlessly and guess what cycle again as Sir Roger Penrose who won the Nobel Prize in physics in 2020 says that where we are going is where we came from we it's a cyclic cosmology even the world's leading physicists themselves which is really exciting for the synthesis of science and spirituality yeah what were you talking about earlier about the the symbols that the logos and the animation that you showed us with the loop in it back on itself thing yes that that doesn't just apply to space that also applies to time because time and space are the same fabric Einstein said that himself um he said that the past and the future and the present are just persistent illusions even he understood that without the direct experience of it just three equations so that infinite loop that I always tell people I always like try to illustrate the people that snake biting its own tail the universe eating itself or this picture or whatever that also applies to time because if you think about it that loop if you visualize that loop as a four-dimensional space time whatever is the case when you were born until you die is the case there is something okay on the spiritual past that sometimes I tell people whatever isn't there since the beginning of your birth until you die or even before your birth because it's going to be experienced by other people or even after you die isn't it so if you loop that thing from the beginning of your birth whatever it is that stays constant since the beginning of your birth until the moment until the moment of now until the moment you die there's a loop and within this loop forms sort of shapeship inside it so it's almost like in this if you abide in this eternal loop it's almost it almost feels like whenever you think about the past it's the same as thinking about the future the past memory it really feels like it hasn't happened because in this group everything's happening but nothing's happening when you think about the future it seems like either it could already be passed or it doesn't even exist so it's like the past and the future and the present are loses meaning the sequential events of past future present loses meaning and even the now even the power of now is empty because there really is no now because now is co-dependent arising through past and future and the past never came the past sorry if the I got fucked up the past never came that that is kind of true okay let's go back to the conventional level for a little bit if the future will never come and if the past already dead it will never you know arise again then the future cannot be sorry the present cannot be said to be exist either because they're co-dependent arising because you can still suffer in the in the power of now actually you free up a lot you free up a lot of stuff in the now if you only abide in the now free up a lot of stuff but in fact if you take now to be the new ground a new static thing where just be like oh there's only the now you can still suffer in the now but when you constructed it now it's almost like deconstructing awareness see the self is such a cheeky con that you could abide you could hide itself in awareness same thing as hiding itself in the power of now but once you construct and dissolve even awareness when the self completely dissolves when there's nothing nowhere to hide we just free-flowing uh even the now ceases to be meaningful because the now in awareness almost simultaneously exists one from the perspective of space and the other from the perspective of time once the last speck of self is dissolved there's no now to abiding there's no awareness to find solace in it just in conceivable yes the same time it's so simple it's so ordinary and that is why it's called ordinary the more ordinary something is the more normie something is the more magnificent and more divine something is it's just like looking at your documentary be like you watch the way the animals move and you're like that's how i'm moving too you watch how the the wind blows the trees and how the flowers bloom you're like i'm in the same force of nature as all of that okay so that's why i've been watching a lot of uh animal planet documentary nature documentary lately but see the non-duality enlightenment is very very interesting in the sense that it is like kind of like going back to like the primordial soup of nature so you're just like exact same thing as the lions and the cheetahs and the trees and the flowers and the and the birds but at the same time as humans see i wouldn't call animals enlightened because they don't have the meta cognition to realize that so in a sense non-duality enlightenment is a it's a combination or is the the paradoxical uh accumulation of something that's extremely primal something that's totally in the natural state as natural as nature and something that's totally alien something that's totally like advanced technology something that's totally futuristic because then it really non-duality it's pretty new even though it's the clinical natural state it's it's something that's just starting to pick up right now in our modern society so in a sense it's something that's extremely primal and it's the force of nature where animals are kind of enlightened but it takes a modern human being who has a this new organ that is the brain to recognize it so it's the combination of both the advanced the the alien the the new the uh the technological the stuff that we talk you talk about a lot you know with those science stuff and the primal the nature it's a combination of two and this is what frank describes you have the earth fractaling out so naturally look at the hydrological cycle it is so beautifully smooth and abiding as the effortless infinite fractal and being the flower that effortlessly blossoms towards the sun that has its unique aroma which is why you have a unique costume is because you're a unique firework of the infinite and because of that you have a unique aroma you have a unique gift to bring and and when you begin synthesizing the eastern non-dual oneness with the western beautiful individuation that's when you start to actually get more towards the true nature rather than one or the other it's not this or that it's always simultaneous and like a jedi be able to navigate between them when you talk to people that are a lot more non-dual and oneness oriented maybe there's a way to very peacefully and gracefully add a little bit of nice individuation when you talk about people that are hyper-individuated you can peacefully gracefully add a little bit of that unity that oneness as well that's a really good statement that the east and the west right the east and the synthesis of the east and west but then that like i said before that is the modern that that that's a modern phenomenon that arose only after human civilization that must also be synthesized with nature with the primordial super of the natural state so it's the merchant of all that yeah because you could technically say like animals are enlightened but not they're not really like even though they're the natural state because they don't have the metacognition to recognize that yes i mean it's almost like you need to put that a brain on a flower yeah yeah they put a brain on a flower yeah and then you have this flower garden with all of the different flowers and all the different aromas yeah and and they're all unique designs that are different colors and aromas and forms and some have a little bit more of those thorny on this on the stems and that's a really good way to you know i'm just like visualizing a field i'm visualizing like i'm in a gardener and there's a field of flowers and each flower has like its own brain in different colors it's like little little brains on the flowers and a whole field of different flower brains that is this that is this and for some reason we with our self-awareness and choice we have the ability to become attached to what is the distortions the twists the identity the attachment to form seeking peace and happiness externally all of the carrots of maya we have that ability and because of that that's where the suffering the malevolence all these things come from and yet at the same time we have what is very clearly this architectural visionary transcendent protocol transformation that's happening where we have precision consciousness awakening we have the precision protocols of decentralization synthetic biology and as frank listed a moment to go everything we're building with artificial general intelligence and neural link and indistinguishable virtual realities the metaverse all this stuff all of that is the natty state all yes yes there's nothing but the natural state so at the level of the absolute nothing unnatural about civilization at all because there's no duality between what's natural what's unnatural what's real what's not real so from the ultimate perspective everything is a natural state in 1945 the same dropping of right at the end of world war two the same dropping of bombs on Hiroshima Nagasaki and the unlocking of the nuclear weapons planetarily happening at the same time as albert hoffman uncovering lsd that that is the ascent and descent happening simultaneously like we talked about earlier this episode that is that the ascent and descent happening simultaneously and in the ultimate analysis the ascent and descent are one the natty state like we've been saying yeah you have to break down to break through so like the process of awakening is very very close to going through under through uh psychosis actually so like you know like the the Hiroshima it blows away the entire civilization almost not saying it's good or bad you know not saying that it should have happened because it gives rise for new civilization i'm not saying that i'm not giving labels to i'm just saying that process in itself is the same process of the mind when you take lsd it destroys all your previous beliefs and paradigms and identities and experiences and it gives birth to a new thing a new entity that's what happened not just in the Hiroshima uh anytime at the micro level micro level cosmic level it's all going on something to all the time even now moment by moment we're dying we're dying we're being reborn moment by moment you know that's impermanence you know whether what is reincarnation people ask is there a reincarnation i don't need to worry about if i'm going to exist after i die if my soul is going to be reincarnated after i die what's right now is reincarnation what it is right now is you dying moment by moment at the same time you're giving birth to yourself moment by moment the you that makes up who you are now is gone one million millisecond ago like a movie but by the same time when you zoom into the movie frame it's completely static so impermanence can only co-dependent rising with complete eternalism yes and then you go yeah so you go beyond eternalism and nihilism you go beyond impermanence and non-impermanence you have to have something that the opposite is also there just like what you said you ascending to sense simultaneously and that's why in the ultimate analysis we keep saying when you go beyond impermanence and eternalism when you go beyond coming and going when you go beyond birth and death when you go beyond absolute infinitude and absolute void shunya emptiness you just are and that is inevitable everything everything that's said before it belongs to the mind the mind just tries to understand but there is nothing to understand really there's nothing to understand i mean you can play around with concepts that's fine but but at the deepest level if you recognize the fact that none of this none of the intellectual things that we talk about really are really it i really it i mean it is the manifestation of it like we said before but yeah you have to transcend that you were to see that you know what i mean it's like you have to you have to understand that all the mental stuff all the concepts all the analogies are not it you have to throw it away before you can come back and wear them like costumes if you are in it if you're if you're still in it if you're still in the mind and thinking to yourself oh uh this mind stuff uh is it too everything natural is also unnatural if you haven't completely made that quantum jump out of it you're just yeah kidding yourself you're just kidding yourself yeah and you're gonna keep toiling as the flower trying to grow towards the sun but going into this identity that for yes yes yes yes yes which you can call also the natty state if you want but we also know that those are distortions even the distortions the kinks the twists are the natty state yet also they are distortions kinks twists you're in it that can realign to what is this peace god's love light endlessly at play as lila and to know oneself as beyond coming and going to just rest and relax drop your specific point of view that you have to insert into everything that you do drop that drop it and relax into the ineffable perfection that this is and do that with friends that know their true nature as well surround yourself that's why it's called satsang it's called truth community and why is it called sadhana the disciplined process of doing things like satsang of abiding is that as you do that more and more often and this is why at the shift into permanent alignment that i was just that bintini masaru and his team had a really radically transformative container that they put together very alchemical for all the attendees including myself huge shift into permanent alignment and guess what they have the opportunity to do that daily they have their satsang and sadhana daily they're purifying themselves daily really hyper refining those nuanced impurities that are really blind spots and difficult to see and that in doing so the ascension is so strong and then the anchoring terrestrially of the architectures to go from that third density human to the fourth density love service to other christ consciousness cosmic consciousness unlocking the fifth density in the law of one is when you is when you balance wisdom with the love because love tends to express itself like um overzealously as martyrdom and you try and change everybody and give them the love and wisdom is the sort of graceful balance of backing off from needing to deliver love everywhere that's not what we talked about earlier that the margin of emptiness of form so that's the fifth density is the margin of the third and the fourth density okay great what is there there's six densities isn't it yes because it's refracted like the visible light spectrum so so four and five merge into one like you just described which is called unity which is the sixth and then that's also that's also the density of the higher self so that's the density where you have for example the frank that has already undergone this massive creationary experience that is basically doing chess with the third fourth fifth density frank so the sixth density is kind of like just embodying it individual or is that the sixth density is also very mirror consciousness so it's basically where you are so purely love this is what is said by darshan like this is the direct enlightenment transmission you are just that you are literally just the one heart you are just that and that's what's meant by the mirror and so that is that and then seventh density is this god or the quote like passport when you basically take everything that you've learned in the creation and then you take that and you use that as the passport into the next creation the oral boros so eight and one are the same because right it goes it's like the same pictures you go back full circle except this time you it's completely different you have the same the mountain is the mountain again but it's not as you perceive it it's the mountain as infinity expressing itself yeah is that kind of like same idea huh totally totally yeah every tradition is talking about the same thing that's that's another example of it you look at even aliens talking about the same thing yeah and all all of these especially when you look at it like a seven density ascension or whether it's the 10 steps or whether it's whatever it is that looks like that ascensionary process all that is trying to be described is the stages of the oral boros stages of the snake eating its tail right so the stages just like in the sort of this is the this is the most recent sort of visualization that put together of you know intelligent infinity right so you have intelligent infinity that is this you know it's like this is the this is the source over here the source white light that refracts through the diamond that's already around each of our necks which is awareness awareness is the diamond around each of our necks so it refracts through that first attribute of awareness and then this is the seven density ascension that we were just talking about rock plant animal human this is where you go service to others with love with that fourth density heart chakra then wisdom balancing that out into unity and god and then this is the godhead the mathematical attractor why does it look like a solenoid well this is because it is like electromagnetic flux that's the two poles in ascension this is where science and spirituality gets synthesized into one this is the attractor which is a mathematics that a complex system evolves towards an intelligent infinity down here looks a little bit like where you fractal outward you hit like in the parable of prodigal sun you hit a breaking point and then you turn inward and that's what's called yoga finding union with what with god with the absolute with intelligent infinity and then from that place you woo way like louts has said effortlessly you firework individually outward in pure service to others and so this is the type of stuff that we've been playing around with so yeah it's all talking about the same thing just like the xan picture at the last picture it's sort of it brings back the individual it brings back the eye even though the eye is empty even though the individual the ego is empty there's still going to be manifestation expression of the absolute through the individual how else would they express yourself exactly that's why they really hardcore non-door teachings of you're not here you don't exist let it do it's i think it's great it's a great step but what if you get stuck in there it could be potentially beta yeah by the way all of the great most realized people that i know like you and i having this conversation and like both of us really respect the tinu a lot a lot of the people that are up here that a lot of people tune into what they say is because they carry the perspective that you just shared which is the simultaneity it's all of those layers simultaneously like lenses and being able to navigate and i would say another component to why people respect people like that so much is also because they are they are the purest manifestation of light love lila they are the divine play in its most purest form they are both the blissful giggle fest of key joy causeless joy in imperturbable peace but they're also balanced out with seriousness earnestness and being in service to helping people realize that that natural state that true yeah true yeah yeah i think it's really important to bring the individual back into the into the absolute because see self and no self is not a duality you see no difference at all between ego and non-ego between self and no self between enlightenment and non-enlightenment between navana and samkara that's why i think the buddha or maybe someone who transcends from the buddha will feel more like a monkey than a god or a human you'll feel like a some kind of entity that is neither and both god monkey and human yeah it's almost like your movement is so natural you feel like a monkey like an animal but then you the consciousness that's been expressed is so vast and so intelligent it feels outer space it feels like it's from outer space it feels like it's from some some kind of ai science fiction reality so it's again it's a combination of the two that that gives rise to that's why someone i think that one of the brahmins was challenging buddha ask him a straight question he's like hey brah are you man or god and the buddha said neither i'm neither man or god i'm awake so that that that entity that's awake is neither being is neither being or non-being is neither god or human it's what it is yeah that's what it is never ever ever ever fuck with the beautiful individuated fireworks because that is the prime mechanism of intelligent infinity of endlessly expressing itself via the costumes the individuated costumes never fuck with that because it is our prime algorithm creatively is to be able to rock these costumes like this it's fucking dope that's a lot of the times um see people like ruber spiro ecotoli i want to know what they're like what are they like they're they're they're presented as a holy way that i want to see them as individuals as well you know i want to see the embodied individuals now i want to see what i could tell what's his favorite food what's his favorite sex position uh you know stuff like that you know that if he can express that i would love him even more yeah that yeah a lot of time that's why i say the spirituality paradigm is in itself uh kind of like a trap you have to play a certain role you have to talk a certain way to be considered enlightening yeah it has to be expressed as well that's why you see a lot of teachers they commit adultery or they abuse their students because they're suppressing their individuality you're still a human being with biological tendencies even though it's all empty but on the relative level on one plane that is reality so a lot of teachers they they get through this non-dual state and sometimes they would you know come out with scandals and stuff like that and i think it's because they haven't really just like the priests that are sort of like rape little kids it's it's it's almost like they're they're they're not into awareness is so vast it's almost like they're they're human aspect of it either gets suppressed overlooked or just you know they they think they shouldn't express it right so but that's just another duality and the appearance of the holy spiritual teacher is almost a cultural dogma that has been it's been programmed by the matrix that if the spiritual teacher doesn't look like that then they're not enlightened so don't trust them and that's become a certain way if they they engage certain behaviors about a lot yeah versus when you're in a sense that's why bentinio uses you know sense he uses a cigar as one of the ways of being able to be like if you get triggered by the cigar you are nowhere near spiritual adept you are nowhere near uh ready to get through those egoic layers of identity to try and know your true nature if you're getting triggered by that and very similarly this is why the team you know every single night we were going out in the little rooftop at the venue we were at Costa Rica and we were dancing and playing and being blissful and joyful and abiding together and we were doing that and this is the type of stuff we would love to see the planetary spiritual leaders we would love to see what they're like when it comes to let's put on some music let's dance let's crack some jokes let's have fun and show people also that spirituality is like Frank's been saying it is this very monkey-like natural state as well so that's what Osho tried to do I think also with his uh he did with his cars and his uh whatever the else that he did check out these jokes it'll show I take your trouble seriously but deep inside I am giggling and then there's there's this one too when I look at you I am searching for a joke yeah and you're right it's a playboy yeah you know what's funny though speaking of Osho uh I think at two or three weeks ago I had an out-of-body experience where I was that was a really one of the first times that one of the only times I had a couple but that was one of the only times where I felt like um I was speaking through my past lives but even though from my perception right now right now right here I was just a dream was just like something that already happened or that didn't happen the ontological status of the validity of it I don't really care but now there was an experience like this I was perceiving myself in my past life that was one of the only one of the only events when I felt like I was really literally here physically here in another lifetime or even right now if time is simultaneous I was there right now but it was another space in our dimension I was in Oregon and I was one of the followers of Osho I was literally I was not asleep I I still had a sense I was in my bed but my consciousness was there literally I felt like I was physically there that either another lifetime or right now and then I was looking at Osho and he was just like kind of like sitting there doing his Osho thing he wasn't even speaking he was just silent but everyone else is like clapping and worshiping like a god right and I was one of the people but I didn't worship him like a god I was just looking at him and I and he looked at me and I was like that's me and I'm him and then because this and I was like there's nothing inside this man this man is a completely empty house he is the most ordinary man the most magnificent but ordinary man in the entire crowd but everyone else was treating him like he was some kind of a god you know yeah but he was just that that is why because he's completely empty that's why people project all kinds of stuff on him yeah and I was I feel so sad because I was like I knew what you're trying to do I could totally understand what you're trying to do yeah and then he looked at me too and he then our eyes just merged and I went to this like fucking DMT trip it was fucking crazy man perfect what what what a great way to put it is that as we mentioned with Siddharah Mishwar and the Sargata Maharaj that as you think so you are so in this case you have this audience that is projecting god deity and then you have the frank yane character in this dream that knows the nature that Osho in this case is that very essence of that empty playful blissful peacefulness and that he recognizes that that is one that the frank yane and the osho character is one and that by doing so you transcend all of those nonsensical that is some that is god that is deity that is what I am not all of that type of stuff and so it's a simple change in the lens to go from okay watch when you get really good at this you can do it at the speed you can go from I am a person lens to you can shift that to I am formless impersonal eternal awareness lens and then you can shift from you went a big shift into subtlety from that first one and then you can shift into the I am the source of infinite possibilities lens I am the infinite creator lens and if you can really navigate between those three really lenses really kind of smoothly and you can navigate the nothingness lens and the everythingness lens if you can kind of navigate these lenses you can really find a peaceful blissful way to just flow effortlessly through life which is what it is you are a flower expressing itself or aromatically on the planet growing towards the sun effortlessly and your mind is just toiling you around wait you're playing out of tune in the symphony because you're attached to some sort of layer of identity that formed thanks to your ignorant parents and the ignorant matrix that we built ourselves for this exact process of getting us out of the maize less maze the lock less escape room so you say something about flowers and I just want to tell you like I tell you guys the story about about how the Buddha was going to give like the best sermon in the world like one of his last sermons like the sermons of all sermons he's almost exactly the ocean story I talked about so he walked up to the podium there's all thousands of people trying to receive his blessing right trying to learn the Dharma of all dharmas and then the Buddha he just took out of flowers he just goes like this he just took out the flowers he just held it and there's only one person the entire stadium that truly knew what he was talking about and he just nodded at the Buddha and the Buddha nodded at him and that was it that's exactly my experience with those shows like hey man if you really understood what Osho was talking about you're going to be clapping at this man you would be like this man exactly the same as me there's absolutely no distinction at all between Osho and me and Osho sees no distinction at all either boom that's why Osho never that's why Osho went into this phase of like three or four years of silence he was saying like he was he was saying like I've been speaking so much 15 years I've been talking nonstop of 15 years but I feel like I'm talking to a wall because so many people understand the simplest truth yeah I was like I understand what this man was trying to do trying to say just just by looking his eyes he's just been silent so like the Buddha just holding out a flower this is the Dharma of all dharmas that's good enough now here's the here's the flower perfect I think that's a great great place to end it likewise I was just thinking the same thing 11 11 no my clock and it's 11 11 in Taiwan boom perfect see even more boom warm it's effortless the whole two hour convo so flow so smooth effortless just like the hydrological cycle on the planet and thank you for the ending of that beautiful this is the Dharma look all right boom that's episode number two with Frank Yang costume we love it we love the the I am loves the dialectic between the Frank and Atlas costumes it's really strong it's hopefully helping a lot of people that are watching and that's the key is to be in service to the other costumes that are seeking that true nature that they already are yeah it's consciousness wants to wake up to itself that's the only projection or the only trajectory of consciousness is to wake up to itself so we can do you do do whatever it means possible you know at this moment is doing it through the Frank Yang and the Atlas costume but even without us consciousness was still trying to wake up to itself regardless even doing dark times because darkness only comes in accordance in uh codimental rise with lightness right love and hate codimental rise yep yep yep and that's the whole office is consciousness recognizes itself and he's doing it through genocides as well as through unity love it's all the two sides of the same coin but if you tell people this then they have no concept of non-duality they're gonna think you're evil but evil only arrives out of goodness so you know you can send all that duality yes duality yeah the moment you see something is beautiful you recognize it as opposite as well you can't recognize ugly without beauty and vice versa yeah all is that love light white network theory at play and that we color the half of that with that darkness to that's the monist plus dualist in one symbol the taijitsu the yin yang plus monism in one symbol so the dark light let's return to the dark light right now let me play a play a bell and then we'll end it let's play a doma bell perfect i like how we both as that was coming through we both that was beautiful so thanks everyone for tuning in yeah we adore you infinitely thanks so much for tuning in we would love to hear your thoughts in the comments below write us out a comment let us know what you think about the episode where you're at we'll see if frank and i can potentially come in and hit a tennis ball back to help you out and like the video if it brought you value it helps the algorithm also subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet share the video with people that you know this would positively influence that's critical as well and check out the links in the bio below you can find the first episode we did with frank we'll have that link below also check out the frank's youtube channel has a lot of awesome content that links in the bio below check that out also frank's instagram has a lot of awesome content that links in the bio this is gonna go off in one hour bro so check out all those links in the bio below infinite love and adoration frank thank you what a stellar round two thank you the eternal bra eternal bra all right we'll stay in the studio much love everyone i'm going to end the broadcast peace