 So I'm in a call of town finance committee meeting of Tuesday, November 19 2019 to order at 235 p.m. And to note for the record that Two members of the committee are unable to be with us today Shallony ball mill who's a council member and one of the resident members Non-voting members Mary Lou Tom and is not going to be able to be here either We have a fairly lengthy and complex agenda and I'm going to take things not in order of the agenda because I want to conserve the very valuable time of some of our people who've come to help explain one of the issues and that's Agenda item 3 which is a recommendation from the Community Preservation Act Committee to make an allocation for Community Preservation Act funds out of the usual sequence of the CPA which has traditionally come to Town meetings in the council in the summer after a process because of the spring so I want to Introduce Nate buddington who is the chair of the Community Preservation Act Committee who can Just briefly state the explanation there also is a memo in our packet on the subject and share with our Scenton manager David Zomac an explanation of the project itself and we And I think that one of the two of you if you could explain the time urgency of action because we do need to make a recommendation to the council We cannot delay this for another meeting if we're going to Meet grant requirements, but you can explain that so Nate Thank you in early 2020 will be presenting to you a whole host of proposals For approval as we normally do But we're asking for an expedited approval of this one particular project Which is to construct a playground in Kendrick Park? Here's the reason why we are here today The town has secured a $400,000 park grant for this project which has a total cost of $659,000 so They have come to CPA and we have enthusiastically and Anonymously endorse their request for $259,000 which is the remaining balance of the cost of the park after the grant I Think somewhat late in the game the town Was informed that in order to receive the park grant the entire Cost of the project needs to be approved and budgeted by the town by December 31 so What we're requesting is that we because we have no money right now in the CPA kitty That you approve a borrow for the full cost of the park Which are the playground? Which will be 659,000? We will only need to at the end of the day borrow the CPA part of that because the park grant Will will cover that cost. It's not really being reimbursed It's just as it turns out. We just won't need to borrow that much once The park grant is formally in hand So this is a Mr. Zomac will describe the particulars of the park But this is a really exciting project that we've talked about sort of informally when I was on the LSSE Commission We talked about this informally and in CPA as well as a as a way to really Add to our efforts to really bring families into the center of town Is that is that Describe the timing to everyone's satisfaction. Okay Thank you, so I'll turn it over to Mr. Zomac great. Thank you very much, and I'll try to be brief We do have a couple of slides and I'm I'm Excited to be here with with both Nate's today And I want to call Nate Malloy our senior planner up in just a minute Because he was the one that successfully wrote the grant with support and collaboration with the LSA from the LSSE Department as well as the planning department So I started my presentation the other night to the CPAC with an apology and the apology It's it's kind of hard to apologize for a $400,000 grant from the state But the apology really stems from as Nate described the process and so We need to go back just very briefly. I'll take you back to 2011 so back in 2011 we had a very robust process to design a wonderful park Use of and designed for Kendrick Park. This was a Committee that the town manager and select board worked with very closely. It was The staff liaison was Christine Brestrup and dozens and dozens of people participated in that process Unfortunately budgetary constraints and the economy and other factors at that time basically caused us to kind of put that Wonderful design which is here on this board to my left and then on the screen above you really on hold but one of the themes that kept coming through as as in my in my My day-to-day week-to-week month-to-month work with our economic development director with the bid with the chamber with the LSSE Commission with the planning department this theme kept coming through time and time again Parents with young children want more to do downtown when they come to the Jones library They want something outdoor outdoors athletic active to do When they come down to the farmers market on Saturday During the active time of the farmers market. They want something to do and so we began to look around We looked at Sweetser Park We looked at the North Common through that process the main part of the common and given all of these factors We really determined that Kendrick Park was the right location and we look back to the 2011 plan and lo and behold We hadn't forgotten about this, but we wanted to to bring this out in kind of a an exclamation point We had designed the group a large group of Residents and volunteers had included a play area mid mid park here in Kendrick Park And so we pulled this plan off the shelf and out digitally and we began to talk to LSSE And we began to talk to folks in the community and we were encouraged to apply for the park grant We applied for that back in July of 2019 and as Nate said it takes a state a long time to respond and so lo and behold about Three four weeks ago We found out and we were very excited that we got the maximum award $400,000 is the maximum award. This is a 70 30 grant So the state will pay 70% of the grant the town municipality needs to match it with 30% So we had this great news and we wanted to bring it to CPAC Nate Malloy who is our our lead contact with the park park program Very quickly found out through an information session with them that we needed to do this very quick turn around We needed to have a municipal vote by 1231 19 and We need to move very quickly on the grant We need to have a design by June of 2020 and then we have a little breathing room Not a lot, but we have about a year if I'm not mistaken and Nate can come up here in a minute to Construct the playground. So it's an exciting opportunity to enhance our downtown The state is willing to pay 70% of the cost of this playground We've done a couple of public Information sessions that were well attended the LSSE Commission the LSSE and planning departments work together to sponsor those and we have not designed The the elements of the playground, but we needed to come up with a rough design to come up with a cost estimate So we would look if the council Is supportive of us moving forward? With this approach then we would hold a number of small information sessions and and design workshops if you will in December and January and quickly come up with a design So the location is as I said, let me just scroll down a little bit here In order to submit the grant we need to come up with a preliminary design We worked with Berkshire design group out of Northampton to come up with a preliminary design It would include walkways some active play areas as I said Either shade structures or newly planted trees and it would be mid-park again in the midpoint of Kendrick Park It would also make part of the park Accessible to universally accessible and this is really critical because right now we only have a Sidewalk on the east side of Kendrick Park. The rest of the park is nice. It's green There's quite a bit of topographic relief. There's some hilly portions, but none of it is ADA So let me stop there I'm gonna turn the mic over to Nate and he can explain Nate Malloy can explain the budget and the process a little bit and Again, we're excited by the grant. We received the maximum award but unfortunately the state does Put us on a very tight timeline to try to make this happen. So Nate, maybe you could tell us a little bit about the budget sure, thanks the Yes, so that's a two-year grant, you know, it starts, you know, it's for this fiscal year our next fiscal year The program requires a full project allocation up front before they enter into a contract with the municipality So that's why we need to You know, we're required to have a vote for the full project cost even though, you know As we're showing here the first year is for design So, you know, there's a fifty thousand allocation for this fiscal year and then the remainder is the following fiscal year for construction But the state won't allow a staggered voter allocation. So it really has to come, you know upfront the You know four hundred thousand is the maximum and You know, we have the full project cost. So I think the concept design although Dave said it's not complete You know, we were pretty thorough in what we what we determined the cost to be so I don't want to say it was conservative But you know, that's that's the ceiling, you know, there's not any moving elements in terms of it's not a spray park There's not a lot of I want to say there's too much equipment. So we can you know when it with Groff Park There was it was a very big expansion. Well, you know, it's happening now. This is a much smaller scale So, you know, that is the limit the ceiling of the of the project for this You know for it for the playground so we can work backwards from that You know, I will say that the state has a pretty rigorous schedule So even if the vote occurs now, they do expect a design process to be done by Really about May mid-May. They want a reimbursement to be submitted by June 1st And they'd like to see construction start next summer. So late July or August and it has to be done by June 1st of 2021 the park grant has said they do not allow extensions or modifications. They don't roll money over for fiscal year So what's allocated this fiscal year is reimburse this fiscal year What's for next fiscal year is next fiscal year and they don't, you know, that's kind of it They don't they don't make any exceptions or extensions or amendments. So We've asked be nice if they did So in in conclusion, we've worked and we really appreciate the seatback Meeting twice in the last two weeks to fully consider this and recommend it to you We've worked very closely with with Sonia and her team on on the budget piece of it and I defer to Sonia if you have any questions about how this would work within Within within see back and with the borrowing, but we're happy to take questions from the committee at this point Okay, yes As you know, I heard a presentation on this earlier So I have more some specifics that hadn't occurred to me that are on the project as I see the Timeline that Nate just talked about and then Heard the other Nate Talk about when CPAC money can be spent You know, you can start to vote it but not till July the design phase that 50,000 has to be town dollars or can once you get the grant award Can you be reimbursing? So I'm seeing that it has to be happening in this fiscal year versus the next facility It's the two fiscal year questions on this project then I have another one It's not specific to this project, but that's my first question Sure, the the order, you know the vote for counsel is for this fiscal year So it's a borrowing in anticipation of grant reimbursement. So You know, I'm not sure so you can answer But I think the idea is that you know in the end the town would spend 15,000 this fiscal year, you know up to 15,000 and That money would I Guess be see would be CPA money That is my that's my question. You've got the question. Yeah Because it's a borrowing authorization What would happen is whatever is spent as it this year would be covered through borrowing through a temporary borrowing even if it's 15 or 35 It'll be the $50,000 if it's spent in this fiscal year. We'll cover that it'll roll right back over in The new fiscal year just to prevent a deficit a year in so it doesn't hit our free cash But it's all borrowing. It won't be any cash capital from any anything Does that answer your question? I think so because it is I heard it You know the securing the grant requires what you're asking us to do now And so that 400,000 is secured But I was thinking if we can't tap into the CPA money till July, but I think this has been answered on how that that four month or eight month of this year gets covered Did you was there another Dorothy had a question I Okay, so the map I have it on my computer and I have it there. Could you put your finger? I think I know where it's supposed to be. Could you put your finger on the paper map? Oh sure Okay, so that other larger space in back of it is still free Envision as a green lawn or open green. Okay, so that's question one in question two. I guess I thought State gives money we give money, but you said reimbursement grant So that means that we have to front all money and when we've finished it then the state gives us the money. Is that correct? Correct. Okay, so they're right So just your first question that on this design here is the concept that triangular path really mimics the 2011 plan So it's really in almost the same location So, you know, we envision it almost as phase one of the build out of Kendrick So if we wanted to take the 2011 plan and implement more of it You know, we're following it pretty closely. So we're not, you know, we wouldn't have to come up with a new design for the park In terms of the fun the funding it is a reimbursement grant. So, you know They used to call it a match but then people assume that you know They would spend some and the state would spend some but the way the state works They you know, they reimburse the community on the on what percentage so it really is a reimbursement But you know that money we have to do it within a fiscal year So as Sony said it, you know, the books balance at the end. So You know, we that we have to allocate the full project cost spend the money and then get reimbursed Okay, I'm trying to read the little picture of the design the 2011 design I see Something about it looks like maybe you're gonna be adding some parking on the side by having them park slant way so that there would be Some if people came to the park to play they'd be able to park there. This is a great question in in the original 2011 plan we had proposed to add parking on the east side of Kendrick West side of Kendrick Park We are not proposing that in this plan partly out of budgetary Considerations but partly because there's so much discussion right now of parking in downtown That we really didn't want to complicate that mix And frankly it would have made the budget go up considerably. So we believe that There's you know, this is within walking distance of Lots of parking. There's parking both on East Pleasant And North Pleasant and the surrounding streets There's a municipal parking lot off of prey Street So we're at this point not proposing to pay for or add or change any parking Yeah, there is parallel parking on the street now, you know We had that design had nose in parking and kind of a reconfiguration of the roadway at that section of Kendrick Park And we're not undertaking that right now good day if I could add one thing just for context here because From time to time and my travels at meetings and conversations I have with with members of the council with with residents with committee members I Want to give a sense that These things we do Have have threads that connect them. So somebody might say well, you know, Dave, you you know The North Common is on hold right now. Why are you why why is why is the Planning Department working with LSSE? Through seatback to go for Kendrick Park? Well, the answer to that is that we fully explored putting a playground on the North Common for those of you Who might have participated in that process that was a reoccurring theme However, when we put all the factors together the size of the North Common The topography of the North Common the potential cost of adding a playground to the North Common The historic nature of the North Common all of those factors led us to believe that That was not the right location to put a playground however as planners we carried the The the the desires and the requests And in this case very strong and very consistent requests of parents with young children We carry those with us and we say what's the next opportunity? So when the park grant came up what my job is is to gather staff to gather committee input from LSSE From the planning board from various committees and boards and say, okay, what was what are the reoccurring themes? We have a park grant opportunity. What should we apply for? Recall that we applied twice for the North Common and we were turned down So it was my decision to say we're not going to go for three strikes on the North Common Let's let's call it quits it to they for some reason didn't like our our proposals there The common is different than a park. This is a park. So what we did was we carried that theme through and we said Where is the most logical place and where is the place with frankly the least resistance? I say that in or the best place from a planning standpoint to put a Playground and this was it. We looked at Sweetser. We looked at the North Common We looked at the main common. We also looked over a community field the feedback We got a community field was two-fold the playground there is very old and and needs a lot of work But it's too far from downtown Parents with young children weren't willing to walk that far even though it's you know What is it six blocks? This was the logical place. So that's our thinking. That's how we We try to plan and we try to look for opportunities So we saw the park grant as an opportunity to get 70% of a downtown playground paid for by the state and they Rewarded us with this grant good I have a couple of questions about the grant itself how prescriptive is it in other words? if you Complete a specific design Do you need to then follow that design in order to be reimbursed from this from the grant or? Can you you know change the design? During construction because you find something that you have to do that number one number two If you only get 80% of the construction completed Well, we receive the folk that 80% of the grant or do we lose the grant altogether and then third is Once we submit for the reimbursement how long will it take for the state to actually reimburse us? Sure, so the you know we we apply with a concept here Which you know they said it needs to be detailed enough to get a cost estimate So, you know, here's the concept in terms of you know when it's actually being constructed We'll you know we'll work with a designer to come up with final plans and specifications So, you know, we have a few months, you know three four months to come up with a final plan So once that plan is you know the state reviews it they like to review it when we go out to bid on it That it really doesn't change so You know we have you know We have a process to come up with that final plan But once we actually you know try to hire a contractor and go through that then there really isn't much changing You know there could be minor things on the ground for instance like a bench may move a little bit But it's not like we're gonna say this walkway should go somewhere else that you know little things can happen But the you know overall plans stay the same You know and as a reimbursement program, so the state reimburses 70% of our cost up to $400,000 So if the project is cost less than we anticipate or you know, we don't spend it all We only get reimbursed 70% of what we spend so you know For instance if we you know miraculously it's much cheaper than we think and we save a little money The state doesn't you know, we won't get the full $400,000 we might get a little less In terms of the reimbursement, I think they say they have 45 days to turn it around so you know the latest we can submit is July And they get it to us by September Yeah, if I could just follow up Part of the question was if we don't finish the design by the end of FY 21 In other words, we only finished the construction rather we've only completed 80% of the construction Do we lose the entire grant or do we get reimbursed up to that? Whatever we've spent we get reimbursed to what we've spent You know they'll you know They'll they'll monitor the first year to make sure the design is getting coming along so that we can you know bid it for construction next fiscal year, so You know they're invested in it as much as we are so you know The big push was to have the full project cost voted by this end of this calendar year because they need to know then that we Can move that's what they need to sign a contract with the town So then they know we can move forward with the design and so you know if it was much later they might You know they could always say well how late is it going to be you know Does this you know does this really push your design back? So I think you know We're you know it is an expedited process so we can meet their deadlines Two questions just My state will do everything to work with you to make sure that you don't send money back They really don't want you to do that. They don't like that But going back to your design been up on Kendrick Park recently I had the impression this was in that lower circle area Yeah You can see on the plan Here Really was Because it's already a drive we've heard here and cut here So it's pretty flat and it works with this design A little further that The reason I'm asking this is because as We've had conversations with the bid About their interest in helping the town have some kind of entertainment shelter or you know Banshell or what a performance shell The two different options one is Kendrick Park and the other one is the town common and I just want to make sure that we're not precluding The use of Kendrick Park because we've kind of cut it in the middle with the playground. I don't think that's really the case I mean it's this is not Nate maybe could give us an estimate of the dimensions of the actual Port-in-place structure, but this is not a really in comparison to Gough Park. This is a fairly modest Playground and the area you see on the The map to the north is really quite substantial So if for instance there was a decision made to put a performance Venue of some sort up there there's plenty of room both for that as well as Seating grass seating or otherwise and as Nate said the topography does change to the south of the proposed site and We also have the tan brook going under that section of the park So the the the midsection is where the tan brook is culverted and goes right under the park So we really don't want to touch the tan brook at this point We want to let it do it do its thing and it's been culverted there for a long long time And it seems to be functioning just well just fine, but I think in the plan the you know There's the amphitheater south of the playground the amphitheater is here again proposed Yeah, we're not proposing to build any of this at this point playground here and then this very large space for concerts for Throwing a Frisbee a ball having a pickup game of sport some sport ultimate whatever right there Yeah, I think and you know that area where the playground is actually pretty heavily treat So it's it's a shady area and the playground works pretty nicely with existing vegetation So, you know, I think the two open lawns are where areas that had been planned for you know, larger gatherings whether it's festivals or music or What looks like below the We're being now called performance areas but towards the southern end Is that a walkway that was drawn into an early schematic or this area here? Yes, yes, so in the original Kendrick Park design We really the group envisioned This area being very active actually a good portion of this would be hard escaped Again, not in the not in our vision right now because we know there's lots of budget concerns and and priorities, but this this area was envisioned for Maybe a farmer's market art exhibits Other active Efforts like that and then there'd be a connecting walkway here connecting any existing and new development to the east and then You know some of the more historic Development over on the McClellan Street side So that would connect there again We do in the budget is this walkway and then this walkway and of course this was already built It's not quite exactly as this plan indicated, but there's already an eastern Sidewalk on the eastern side of Kendrick Yep So second question is if the Boy Scouts were here today and asking the question as to whether the park would still Allow for Christmas tree sales is there still sufficient space? Absolutely right here is where they sell to Christmas trees now Yeah, we wouldn't be in that location where they not even close and It's my recollection, but I just know that you have your mouse pointer again I thought that the Tanbrook ran under close to the Kendrick place building Sort of between there and Bertucci's is that It's not that far north it comes in if this is the old Bertucci's here Nate correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it comes right in through here comes right to yeah And then it daylights over off of McClellan and then heads do north Into the campus where the visitor center is it's under grounded there it daylights again at the campus pond a Very large culvert here Kathy a Question that came up at CPA was about Benches picnic tables places to sit and this playground would include Some Additions to that is that correct? So I think to me that was your it's a playground But you're also opening up an area for people to congregate which is not doesn't exist right now We've got this big piece of land But if you wanted to bring a picnic and sit down there's so you're in now you'd have to sit on the ground Which is fine, which is okay, but I mean it also gives you a place to do this Yes, absolutely to come with a picnic come with your family again It would be a DA both this the there would be a poured in place Rubberized structure under the the entire playground, which is really required at this point for ADA purposes We would try to incorporate as many of the place structures would be Universally designed for those people with disabilities children and families could enjoy as many of those Activities in the in the playground as possible and then really very importantly is the is the walkways themselves Would open up access to the park where we would have seating areas around the park again This is just a conceptual design So we would design that with a group including LSSC Commission members planning Planning department staff etc. Yeah, there is a budget line for those amenities So it was you know There actually can be pretty expensive for benches So we factored in I think there was at least eight maybe more in tables You know a few tables and other things so there was a you know a budget line for that you know in terms I know you talked about there'll be a Community input and design part of this but one of the things I noticed that Amherst College is done And I don't know whether it ends up being cheaper or not But behind this beautiful new science center that they have they're out to our seating areas giant rocks That the glaciers moved in so I'm sure it was Somewhat expense to move the rock there, but I think the maintenance of the rock Will be fairly low But but it's nice seating. It's really and it would be pretty cool for kids because you could Crawl on the rocks, you know, I mean they're not just a trip So I'm just thinking creatively about what's the seating place and lower maintenance costs would be useful as you think about What's possible within the grant funds? No, that's a great point and and if I could I'll just point out over here under features We we left the door wide open natural and traditional playground elements Many people think of you know kind of something like this at a schoolyard or you know near an elementary school But then you have less traditional more kind of naturalistic Naturalistic features like this again, this would all come out in the design process. I know the director of the bid is Behind me and and we've talked about it. I know the bid and the chamber would like to participate in the design process I'd be happy to give up my seat if if Gabrielle wanted to make a comment with the chair's permission But we very much would like to gather input from the community in the design element of the design phase Yeah Gabrielle when I was going to ask if you wanted to speak or comment at some point The other thing that we need to talk about very briefly and I didn't know if it made sense to go before Which order to put it in I don't care, but we do need to talk about the draft Council order 2045 which is what the actual Item is that we would be recommending as a finance committee to the council for adoption and Essentially there are three parts to it in part one Transfers care custody and control of the park to LSSE commission and I know you can talk about that why that's necessary in the second the second part it has to do with the Appropriation itself and the third is to authorize the grant application and acceptance of the grant So that it closes that out Regarding the first part which is the caring custody of the LSSE commission Aside from the You know brief explanation as to why that's required the other Question that now comes to mind because I know the LSSE is going through a planning process if they reorganize the way that they are going to proceed as the provider of recreation in in the town In the commission ends up being recommended to be replaced by some other body or some other mechanism or LSSE is transferred becomes a department of the town Where does all of that fit in with the change of care custody and control of some of to the commission under these Uncertained circumstances Well, I'll take a quick stab at that and maybe Nate can add to it but Just so the So, you know part a is required by the state so the state is Offering four hundred thousand dollar grant to the town There's the carrot. There's a little bit of a stick if you will in that They want to make sure that the town of Amherst a year from now or five years from now Doesn't decide well. Thank you very much state for that grant We're gonna pave over that park and tear it out in half a day and do something else with that park So part a is required by the state. We have done this At a couple of other parks throughout town. It is very common practice. It's it's required to accept the grant Right now Kendrick Park is under the the care custody and control of the town manager so this would at least legally move that to the care custody and control of The LSSE commission my understanding is that Virtually every town in Massachusetts has some form of either LSSE or a recreation Commission or a recreation department. I Don't know. I don't think any of us know exactly where LSSE is headed in their strategic plan, but I'm fairly confident that we will have some form of recreation Body coming out of any Discussions that happen around that so we would just want to make sure that the various parks whether it's Mill River or Grove Park or Pot wine or or Kendrick would have somebody that could be slotted into This spot Mate, I don't know if that covers it. Yeah, I mean right now, you know, I also see commission is It serves as the parks and recreation commission for the town, you know, even say in terms of the CPA Process to in terms of so it's kind of as their role as a recreation commission They would be getting the care and custody and control. So if that were to change and there was a different type of Commission, you know overseas parks, then it would it would just transfer to you know to that commission And I think part a the one of the pieces that you know says in perpetuity for chapter 45 section 3 And that's that's just a public park saying that the the property is now officially a public park And so there's a day said there's some, you know Some requirements there for were to change use so it's now you know protected public park space. I Had actually thought that was the key wording in this that that We can't just sell it to a developer without going through a lot of hoops. That's the big one I think the LSD commission that's just letting the state know we have some some group in town that can oversee it And I think they're less concerned about that. They're more concerned about the the dedication to that You know 45 section 3 And we actually have as you point out transferred other property into the LSD commission for Same reason for park grant Practically speaking the care of the park mowing the lawn taking care of the trees Maintaining the the facility itself would still fall primarily to DPW Which is under the direction of the town manager. So practically speaking day-to-day week-to-week month-to-month year-to-year DPW would maintain Kendrick Park as they do today and they would maintain If we build this playground, they would maintain the playground as well anything else before I ask Gabriel to see if she wants to say anything to us I had I had a Larger contextual question not specific about this project. So I just want to make sure I can ask it But it's not on this. It's so I'd be happy to hear from Gary. Well, I can't speak. Hi So Gabrielle cool downtown Amherst bid. I did meet with David I've also met with Julie at the Hitchcock Center and I believe that the bid and the Hitchcock Center would love to be involved in the planning of this park for my Perspective having any aspect of the Hitchcock Center being a part of this park would be an incredible economic driver for downtown They have people from all over the world coming to see their One of 19 on the globe living buildings and it would be an incredible thing for them to say Oh, by the way, you should hit downtown Amherst and see, you know, our our living garden our rain garden Very much in line with what you're already doing. It would just be nice to get them involved so that they have a presence here in our downtown area Would you like me to speak to the idea of a performing art shell and the parks and all of that? Yeah, that would be helpful. I mean your vision of the park and how the business community that you represent What they're looking to for Kendrick Park and where this would fit in So right off the bat, I'd like to say that I believe that the best thing for this Incredible town with three really beautiful green spaces that they're all very dynamic and different I see an ability to sort of if you will program and design these spaces to Have the full slate of happenings and opportunities reasons to walk reasons to continue going in different directions and When I look at Kendrick and I see this Wonderful idea of a playground because I believe that playgrounds are incredible economic drivers I know when I had little humans Getting out of the house once we were out of the house. I was not going back to the house I was going out for a cup of coffee. I was going to the bookstore And I do think that playground in any downtown area is important for community the bid is going to present in front of the council. I'm hoping in the new year our proposal to build a performing arts shell and Historically, we are truly looking at the common because mainly if you look at historically that is where Olmstead You know drew his little bandstand or performing arts shell onto it I feel that there is a component of the north and south common that is the Jewel of our town. It's what you see when you come off of route 9 It's what the Amherst campus really looks at and I'd love to see that be utilized in a way that Brings more life to it Commons originally where we're livestock were auctioned off where gallows were And I believe that it would be great to bring more life to our common The other thing that we are hoping to be able to do with our town is to have craft beers wine tastings ciders available on our common and I would of course if we're doing Shakespeare on the park Wouldn't it be great to have a couple of vineyards on hand to be able to do wine while we're watching our Shakespeare? or if we're watching dance or listening to Music and I personally would love to see that as far away from the little humans as possible I I've met a couple of our town sort of Regulars who like to come to these events and if we can keep them up at the common where we are I would feel better as a human about doing that And I'd love to see the north common become that place where there's music Dance performance and the ability to have a craft beer to have a farmed table dinner to Recreate the taste of Amherst and I think that answers that question Swar's the liquor on the common question I Think that's something that obviously is not before us today We do need some exploration and it also involves the license commission absolutely And I have been speaking with them and working with them on that All of a sudden I had a very obvious question I assumed that you're going to build a not a porta potty, but a real bathroom on the Kendrick Park near the playground There there are no plans to build, you know a restroom facility or a building there. I Think that's a problem when you have a playground with children I think you just have to have a place for them to go I think within the downtown there are some public restrooms So they know that really isn't I mean that's a much bigger project to put in a you know restroom facility whether that's you know You know You know year-round use or even the seasonal structure. That's something that wasn't part of the project But it is something to consider it. There's more programming happening there. You know, that's Yeah There is another issue that comes up Which I don't really want to delve into today because it will take the finance committee aside by Miles and that is if you have public restrooms within the downtown area, then they become a Available to a variety of people including some of our homeless population and There are arguments for and against but it's not a subject that need can be decided without substantial consideration Other questions because I do we do have a big agenda and I my mind was more global of Would be I understand why this is coming to us now rather than the entire package of CPA, so I And Dave was asked this earlier at CPA, but I'd I'd like sooner rather than later And it doesn't have to be today a sense of the flow of other Demands on the CPA money to give it a context so it's the community are the community fields gonna come in with a big piece of money and just how the Financing works that you know, this isn't the only Recreational area that's high priority and I know the dredging of Puffer's Pawn is on the JCPC But that's for two years from now but thinking of the CPA money as an available resource for the town and and The way I understand this works is if CPA Well CPA will be supporting it if it went out and debt finance. It's not taking 259,000 out of the million that debt servicing so I just think it a Early or rather than later meeting it would be just good to be thinking about the overall context and not you know Knowing that we have to make this decision now Um, I appreciate that question. It did come up at CPAC the other the other night last week And Sonya can correct me if I'm wrong with my understanding is if if this went out at about 260 in debt It would probably be about $30,000 a year for 10 years For 10 years, so that's really if you look at the hit to the CPAC budget each year That's that's the hit. We have about a million dollars to spend every year We don't anticipate any large open space projects coming in this year There may be some smaller requests, but there's no land acquisition Projects coming in the deadline for projects is I should know it December 6th December 6th All right, Nate knows he writes many of the proposals so December 6, so Kathy I'm not sure there'll be any additional information Between now and then I do know that the other high priority for on the recreation side is any Consideration of the plan over at community field in the high school for field improvements there So I certainly cannot rule that out as if the town and the schools came together with some CPAC proposal for Some percentage of that that is possible, but I don't anticipate other large proposals coming through LSSC for For funding we have spoken to bar bills and and I believe she's been in touch with the Commission on that as well, so Other questions comments, so I think that where we are at is The turning your attention back to the Finance order itself 20 finance order 2045 because if there are any additional questions what I would We if we are recommending this then the motion has to be something in the order of that the finance committee recommends to the town council that approve proposed order 2045 and Takes action prior to December 31 2019 So that's what we're angling towards if there is agreement amongst the committee To make that recommendation I so move I second it. Okay, so there's a motion that's been made in second on the floor So I guess I'll But say to ask two things at once if anybody has questions about the order itself to Please bring them forward and the other is before we get around to voting. I always want to make sure of that If either of our resident members who aren't going to be able to vote have things that they want to share or With the committee to please take that opportunity So pause Robert You mentioned the the deadline of December 31st. I don't see that in the order. Maybe we should add that to the order That's just one comment, but I mean You know in terms of you know the actual proposal itself I think it's reasonable and I think it's something that would benefit the town It's not typical that we put deadlines of grants in appropriation orders. It isn't the contract that we sign and It's also in the motion But I'm wondering just toward that in the whereas is you know whereas the town needs to make a decision by Semmich so the whereas is don't go into the contract part I'm just yeah I mean I think it's the timeliness that why are we taking this out of cycle that I think we're trying to flag So could it go in the whereas language? It's part of the NCPA report Oh, so the attached report would be explaining that Sonya do you want to quickly explain how the town attorney and You and the clerk work together on These proposed orders that come to us for consideration I'm sure but I think Nate Malloy is better Handling that since he's dealt with the town attorney, and we just all checked it You're laughing Well, rub it out of the hat that's okay the the park grant has a You know a format that we need to follow so you know most of the resolutions the whereas and then the parts a bnc I really prescribed by the program and so You know they'd like to see that you know there are some resolutions as to why You know the town needs the funds and the purpose that's being served and then the the three actions that need to be taken so You know town the town attorneys helped You know, you know adapt the the template from the program to meet you know the town's needs So that's kind of where it came from You know in that note and you just to your point earlier My only thought was in part a where we mentioned the LSE C commission We could have It could be to the town manager to the LSE C Commission comma in their role as parks commission comma to clarify that you know the care Control and custody is you know to them as you know in their role as a parks commission if we You know if for instance if the town if their role was to change then you know It's really in their role as the parks commission. They're they're receiving this not just as the LSE C commission Would the state agency Have any problem if we left it as it is and then should Something come before the council to transfer the responsibility of the LSE C commission to a new Entity like recreation commission. Would they just accept that? as long Say because it would probably say something like Transferring all Care cussing control Property that is currently under the jurisdiction because yet as you point out there are other properties that are there I think is is part of Mill River and Graf Park already With the LSE C commission and it kind of reminds me a little bit of the by-law Review committee you would actually have to go through and see what is under the care custody and control of the LSE C commission What has been put their place there to date? And if there was a new entity doing it like a parks and recreation commission I would think the council would have to go through and say These these eight areas or these six parks are now under the care custody and control of new entity X So I think I think we're safe doing that I don't think this really needs to change I have a question looking at Now therefore it be ordered. Okay, so it says control of Kendrick Park. I think it's that one It's where it says they're gonna change it to an active Plant a park I had it here just a minute ago It's in it's in part a Okay, so I was wondering what is Kendrick Park listed as now because it says if I'm now on this will be an active recreational park and Something okay. What was it supposed? What was it before because it sounds like you're changing its Function Again, this is prescribed by the state, but Nate you might be able to say more about that I mean the park was gifted to us with the express purpose of Making it a park for the residents of town, right? I think now it's under You know, it's it's it's a park under the care and control of the town manager You know, but there hasn't been any formal designation for it to become up, you know a public park Other than this bequest and so you know after time, there's you know Statutory limitations that would become a park and it would be grandfather, but that takes a long time So what this is really saying is it's really the mass general law 45 section 3 saying it's becoming a dedicated public park I think the you know says for park and active recreational purposes. That's just to meet the grant requirements that you know, they you know the park can be anything in for active recreation That's just to make sure that it allows You know like a play area or things where activity can happen But you know in terms of what the state sees Kendrick Park as now It's just municipally owned property. It's not considered a public park. It's just In the commons. How is that listed? The town common. Yeah, that's actually a town common. So that's it's not a property It's still part of the right of way. So the state recognizes historic town commons separate from a public park Yeah, I don't Calling the gift from the Kendrick family to the town which was accepted by the select board 15 years ago, maybe I don't know I Think it was gifted to with the understanding that it remained a park But the arrangement was sufficient to put that into the responsibility of the town manager I don't think that this is a Significant change really I Think if I could in my discussions with many many people about the playground It's more the symbolism that starting getting Active recreation happening in the park how many of us go by the park many many times a week or a month And there's no one there in the summer you get somebody having a picnic or throwing a disc or something But this would be a way to invite people and give them permission and say this is a town of Amherst public park For residents their families visitors Anyone can use it, you know dawn to dusk seven days a week So I think it's a way to activate the park in a way that it hasn't been So even 15 years ago when we got it as a gift I can remember most people still thought it was private property and it was rare to see anybody even walking in the park So I think we've come a little ways. We want to we want to jump start that I have a question. Is this a rentable space? for Like like the town common it is sure Sure Just like you can rent the pavilion at Mill River the pavilion at Grove Park You can rent right now. There is a process you go through with the town manager To rent or use Kendrick Park and the town manager approves those requests and The assumption is now that that responsibility would be taken over by LSE or it's or it's new That's the real with the real change of that and again Even the pavilion rentals at the parks like Mill River and and groff are Delegated really to LSSC The LSSC department so bar bills staff really does that But I believe the commission weighs in on what's a reasonable fee How many times a year do we want to do it etc. Etc. So I could see something similar here happening Okay, one more question, and we really have a long agenda. So we need to move on but take a vote So you've discussed a plan that was made in 2011 that was put on hold and Some things that are had there have been done some things which have not been done and the money for the playground I'm I guess I'm wondering they're gonna be some things you're gonna want to do While you're putting the playground in that you kind of referred to which might not be covered by the playground grant Like lawns Sidewalks tables and there might be some things or maybe there aren't so the question I have was will you be? Coming to us again for non-playground related park expenses to as part of the whole job of getting this thing ready For the most part, I think the answer to that is no we need to stay between the lines of the design We cannot if you authorize the spending for this park. We cannot go over budget. There'll be a contingency that contingency we'll will Account for any, you know any changes in the design or or overages or anything like that change orders But we do not plan to improve Kendrick Park Dramatically beyond the playground in the next few years. We've got many other priorities at other parks We're you know, you all are talking about sidewalks downtown and roadways and and the four capital projects So we're gonna stay within the boundary of the park agreement the park grant agreement for this again DPW, you know has their annual budget their operating budget and there may be Modest things in there for a bench here or or to something like that But we don't see any other substantial Implementation of the plan you see behind Nate over over to my left. Thank you So let me see if we're ready to vote I think that we are The four of us from the committee All of us who are in favor of the motion that's on the floor to make this recommendation to the council Please say I and raise hand So I saw four so it the vote then is for zero with one member absent and Thank you very much Dave Nate Nate Gabriel, thank you very much. We really really appreciate your input and the information you've provided and We will make sure that This gets to the council and can get acted on on a timely basis because we're well aware of the deadline The president the council's right here, so she's hearing us going on the agenda for December 16th Thanks. Thank you so We have a number of other things on the agenda last time we had started with the fourth quarter year end FY 19 budget update and We had didn't have a lot of time that day I said we would reserve a little bit of time today if there were any follow-up questions It was included back within the packet for this meeting. So Just want to see if there were any additional questions Seeing no questions, then I guess did you have anything Kathy? whether there any questions about to be asked additional to about the fourth quarter year-end FY 19 budget update So I didn't have a specific question But when I looked at the document that was attached, I saw an annual budget and I didn't see a quarter So maybe I missed the one that was quarterly You know, I expected to three see a three month budget So maybe we talk about June the same way twice. So it was questioned. I might have not been looking at the right one that was question number one and in the future I'm Wondering whether we could have these reports Talked about how much additional was put into cash I think it would be useful to get a little chart at the end to show the Reserves that cash and the stabilization fund at year-end Reserves an enterprise fund and I've seen that in other documents, but I have to look at too many documents to see that So those were two and then and I'll just I'll bundle them then the third I had it's just a general more general question if I see that you budgeted for $100,000 in legal and Spent 80 so there's a remain at the end of the year. Does that carry over to the next year or do you just start all over again? So when it's the operating budget, it's a new year, right? So wouldn't be like capital where you might have appropriate appropriated something and you haven't spent it yet Is it right operating budgets that close out at year-end if they're not encumbered in a contract? Then it would just close out and go to free cash or and doesn't need fund balance to be part of our free cash calculation And I just answer a couple of the questions the first one about the quarterly reports These are cumulative quarter So you have the first quarter and then the second quarter has six months in it Third quarter has nine months and this is the fourth quarter with all with the final Numbers for the air and you should be getting one for through September. We just haven't done all the transfers yet and everything so we haven't Been able to pull that together yet. So that's just that's been the town's practice. I'm used to some corporate report show First quarter this year first quarter last year. No, we don't we don't second court They don't just do cumulative, but the ten embers doesn't do that. Okay, and as far as the reserves are at year-end Most of the time we don't have our reserve numbers are free cash certified. So that's why it's not part of this report and it's part of We we hope to have it by the time we do the indicator reports, but that's not always the case. So and so Tell you the next step that we usually do Because we now have a new elected body that replaces town meeting but in prior finance committees in this Been a practice that goes back to when I was chair of the finance committee before the other finance committee We started sending this routinely after review by the committee to the legislative body and We had a memo that accompanied it that explains that The amount of additional funds does not necessarily and usually does not end up going to free cash in its entirety because of Number of things including as I recall unpaid bills or not the memo had number of Reasons why it was not a final number and points out that until a number certified by The Department of Revenue We don't know what the effect on free cash will be Will be as an addition of a significant amount mostly because we took out a bunch of money from Free cash did we use free cash for that for the Yeah, go ahead So I just wanted to mention that the report does have that memo on there and it does state the fact that this doesn't The increase here doesn't constitute free cash figures because this is budgetary This is only how our budget for fiscal year 19 performed. It's not gap. It's not You know free cash if we had carry forwards and we didn't spend all those carry forwards That would go back to fund balance, too and that would increase fee kept free cash free cash has Estimated receipts and stuff in it. It's a whole calculation that the state does so it's it's totally different than just Having extra money at year in and adding it to our balance So that's why it's not I asked oops You had a question about that. Oh, I also wanted to Answer the reason it's so high this year is because we did get the two million dollars back from the health claims trust fund the other factor in here is our permits Were up this year So that gave us the extra revenue and on the expenditure side again It was we didn't have to have the surcharge for the full year So what we appropriated for that for the appropriation towns portion of the surcharge is Returned as well. So and we had quite a few open positions that weren't filled And that's caused the larger money coming back Hi, I just had a quick question about the on the transportation budget the public transportation Was budgeted at 87 and we spent 33 was that Due to some bus route cuts. No, I think that that's the year of the 53,000 was was voted at town meeting added to the Transportation budget and that wasn't spent. So it just ended up getting returned was to add roots or something I've tried to think back to town meeting but What it was about was and I thought that Something had been Negotiated it was to make sure that we could maintain a higher level of summer service than was necessary since University cuts back so substantially on its route structure That it was impossible for some people to commute to work using the bus because of the Timing of the bus routes and that was the reason that town meeting did that So is it possible that it shows up in the current fiscal year and it didn't show up in the last one? You know that it because it was an allocation to increase the summer hours, you know Because we this was a whole discussion in the spring on Taking that money and spending it. I Don't believe it was added to the fiscal year 20 budget You'll check. Yeah, so we can take that Transportation question up again in this But I don't unless there's a different feeling from the committee. I See no reason not to include this with the next finance committee report to the council That seems to be the most effective way to get this to them So if there's nothing else on the fourth quarter and I'll pause Is I get my agenda back up? The other thing that we need To be working on and I can't we can't do too much of it today, but I wanted to explain the preliminary budget guideline issue and I had sent You a document that had both the finance committee and the council guidelines that followed the Meeting that we recently had on the financial indicators and the trend reports What traditionally would happen and Sharon can speak to this too because she was involved with for the past several years was that the committee Had an opportunity to see if we had any questions about the proposed budget and as it was presented if there were not not the whole budget This is obviously it hasn't but the financial structure that was presented at the end of the financial indicators report and Whether the words and if we have questions we would have that opportunity So it's partly that Question as to whether there are questions and whether we need to ask the town manager to attend our next meeting The second thing that we do is we confirm in the guidelines the recommendations To allocate operating costs budget amounts for municipal purposes elementary schools what we think of is the appropriate amount for regional schools library and then capital and that then Guides the budget process because it gives some indication to the schools that The finance committee in this case the council's finance committee believes that there are appropriate amounts and Suggests that The town manager proceed working with the superintendent library director to apply those that division that has been recommended so that's part of it and then the Other pieces are there is that there's some underlying financial policy issues that were recommended by the town manager in the presentation for example not planning to use any free cash or stabilization fund to balance the budget at this point in time and that we Also are recommending that we not try and seek in the operating budget over Override from voters to allow us to increase the taxation and those are all Come parts of what is in budget guidelines normally And if there's a difference of opinion and we need to talk about that then we need to Make sure that we ask the manager if he can attend our next meeting so that he was Aldrich can answer questions the Select board that that really describes pretty much of those guidelines that the finance committee process was The select board was fairly similar except it has an additional piece to it and so we are going to be adopting both and doing a merged document and The other piece is if there are any guidance that Council at this point in the finance committee to the council wants to recommend for Operating expenditures for any portion of the budget That those recommendations Be included Generally, they've tended to be fairly Non-specific but talking more about goals that we would that the select board would like him to achieve I think when we've heard some counselors talk about The issue of the guidelines and the importance of the guidelines to the council That's it's that piece that they're probably most conscious of So I'll pause to see if there's any questions about The content and then I'll talk a little bit about process Yes, okay, so I I read last year's and started thinking about what This year's would be because this will be the first time we've done it as a we weren't in office last year So the one of the issues that has come up and and I can see the what I understand how the budget is put together It it came up in the budget hearing with several people from the fire department talking about staffing concerns and to the extent As I understand that how we can get to the two and a half percent if it's across the board is it assumes sort of current Staffing and that you're just meeting wage increases, you know, and then you get as Sonya said if there's a vacant position You might get some leeway, but if there were Staffing increases in fire That are need to be made and so I had two is a two-part that we had a 2017 study on staffing that I think could be updated with the loss of Hadley to have okay What is our shortage now given that we're 20% down then are there some policies? I'm just gonna go through a list because I don't know what's appropriate to come from us But are there staffing policies are their shift works? We Right now have a student workforce that is taking time for training It takes up space that could be used for other things. It has a whole fire engine dedicated to us a lot of the Visits are for lift and assist that the ambulance makes and I think the arbor's license as an assisted living Should cover it and if the licensure doesn't should we be Putting our representatives they're supposed to train people to prevent falls But they actually don't have anything in their license that requires them to pick them up when they fall so So and they tell the so they call us to pick up the person Not when they think something is drastically wrong But just to literally pick them up even though they are bathing them and putting them in and out of a wheelchair and and That's a high demand on us I'm so you know are there some strategies that relieve the stress on it and I had a resident Couple people I know went and did a tour of the north station and people were talking they're on 24-hour shifts now But they frequently work 38 hours because they need to be held over You know so this sense of how people are coping so my my more global question is if we think there's an area in the budget That needs particular attention Rather than the across-the-board this Direction to the town manager to come back with a how we might accommodate that you know Where else in the budget and it interacts? I know it interacts with the goal of going to 10% for capital because by going to 10% for capital or pulling money That could have been spent on operating so That was my question. It was all focused on This one set of issues that is now starting to come from directly from the people who arrived for services, but also from residents so It was a long winded, but you know, it's if you know asking for a plan whether we do a partial Down payment in this coming fiscal year and then think of we've got a glide path over four years, you know, whatever it is So I'll stop You know that the one more thing just on the student staffing which I think we all really like The tour of North Station, so I've decided I should do this also the places the students sleep and Their living room is off-limit for the people who work there and their quarters don't come close So just you know, there's you know, when they weren't even saying anything about it was just literally a tour They said who's here and that's this other group, but they can't go out alone on an ambulance and they can't full service So is there a need to kind of examine? All of this as part of how do we deal with what is a perceived And maybe a real problem as we we go forward and not be silent about it On that one issue about the student force is I think it was deputy fire chief Lindsay Stromgren came and spoke to the select board and made a very long-term and Impassioned plea for the continuation of that program and justification for the program Now that we're a new body It might be important As we deal with a bundle of issues to have that Presentation again made before a different body. I agree and if you mess students are benefiting from it Maybe you mess could help us pay for it to you know Just you know if you're just thinking about this as a revenue and cost issue even if we're totally committed to it I wasn't saying that we're not I Think that Lindsay was feeling that It's justifiable on the basis of the town's side of it in the town's benefit He was not speaking of it from the university side But I don't want to Speak for anybody else just Telling you what he said when he presented to the site board a couple of years ago But we can take that up and Consult with Lynn at some point about whether that's an appropriate discussion for the committee or for the That's why I tried to make it in part of a larger package too because if Lipton assist is a heavy demand Is there some way we can identify things that are My last one was can we charge the facilities Applewood and Arbor? They don't want to charge the person if it if it doesn't result in a ride to a hospital Then it can't be billed to insurance You know so you you get a A car is out So just just thinking on What are possible levers that are both relieve the stress or increase the revenues? Can I ask a clarifying question is that is the question that you're getting at how much the finance committee should Persuade or encourage the the town manager to Increase that budget is that to I Think the question is can we not necessarily not necessarily persuade but Come back with a study that talks about what the plan is to address it You know that we don't have solutions are there solutions is is there a problem? You know you know sort of document the level of the problem Are we talking about two people up to person problem the 10 person problem? So I don't have an answer Sharon. So I was just looking for is there oh Way because I noticed in the past things that finance wasn't specific getting into these kind of specific issues But the select board was And I think that's what the difference and that's where the difference between the select board guidelines and the finance committee guidelines in the prior form of government were and now they're coming together into a single document and the select board probably would have said something along the lines of Encouraging the manager to Consider these issues something like that not a mandate that he had to increase a budget, but these should That it was this is an important issue for The board or in this case the council would have to make that decision and asking him to consider it in the end under the new Charter It is totally within the manager's discretion as to what He ultimately recommends to the council on May 1st, and then we consider and Vote on but Sort of an early opportunity to say hey We'd like you to think about these things, and I think that's how it would be put forward in what we do What I was going to suggest is that I'll take a stab at before we have our next meeting writing the outlines of a merged document, but These kind that particular topic that we're talking about of what to include about recommend recommendations for FY21 Municipal budget I was not going to touch because I felt that that really should come out of more dynamic Discussion I can put in something now about what Kathy's asked about, but I'm not going to go beyond that if I do that I go that far at all But I think that that's where we have to go with this so that we can get the guidelines when We had that financial indicators meeting and budget forum The thought at that point that was expressed was that we might be able to get back to the Council in December I think that you're now thinking That that's not gonna that that's too optimistic But We don't want to get into a situation that I've had experience with from the select board, which is it gets pushed back into multiple Meetings of the council and then doesn't give the town manager guidance in a timely fashion that he needs To do his work in budget development So I think we really do need if we're going to do that kind of recommendation To not let it delay Lynn So I have a couple of questions and I really need to look to you know people like Sharon yourself Sonja and Try to understand the relationship between The goals that the council will agree on with the town manager and the budget guidelines and let me just Say I'm I'm tearing the group cat these on it actually Dorothy's on it as well We were trying to come up with a draft of goals for the town manager that the council will then Agree to with the town manager. Okay, and some of these very same issues have come up in those discussions Mostly, you know things like for example Taking the framework of the existing fire staffing study and updating it that kind of thing So or looking at the issue of you know personnel in terms of library Which is another issue that's come up so the goal for I mean we would have loved to have been done with this a long time ago, but It's a lot more difficult than I think any of us ever hoped it would be So in fact we're meeting again today at 430 to continue to have a Conversation with Paul about these Our goal our goal no pun intended our plan as a committee is to bring them to the council For our first discussion if you will on December 16th At what point? Do those goals and the budget guidelines? kind of urge or Inform each other I guess is the the Word I'm looking for because as I'm even looking on the draft Budget guidelines from the select board, you know, they begin to sound a little bit like town manager goals and So I'm just trying to get a sense of the relationship And is it almost like you need the town manager goals before you can also before we can finalize The budget guidelines. It's not total overlap not even remotely, but there is some congruence between the two So let me take a crack at it It's like it really is a select board question not a finance committee question because it was a select board guidelines. I Think that we're into just The first year of a new form of government and trying to figure it out the select board was always striving to complete the Guidelines are the goals for the town manager an earlier date closer to the completion of the evaluation itself Because the year that's being evaluated is already half over by the time you get goals done if you wait too long You were absolutely correct that the goals that were developed for the town manager then Informed the the the drafting of the budget guidelines and the Course our hope was is that the goals would be done prior to the What is now the financial indicators meeting used to be the four boards meeting and then It would all come together in the fine and the select board could move fairly quickly in completing its work usually it would see the Finance committee guidelines about the same time as it was working on its own guidelines So the whole calendar process is a little bit out of sync the problem that we have again is that if you're going to give real guidance to the Manager on either performance goals or on budget Considerations that you would like the manager to consider The Timing is very difficult The only advantage we have and it is a big one is that The town manager had to complete his budget by was the January 20th roughly Under the old form of government under the new form of government Manager has till May 1st, so There is more time in that piece I'm kind of lost in the whole process and scheduling too so But as far as the budget guidelines are what the finance committee did in my practice And when I was part of the finance committee as the liaison is once the October indicators report came out and the manager had his bullet points of two and a half percent for the Operating budgets and whatever percent we were we were Expecting for retirement and all all of the OPEB and all of that and That would be pretty much the basis for the guidelines at the finance committee had With the caveat that it's really early in the Process and these things change and we could go back and ask for more Which we did one year because of the health health insurance trust fund tanking and then we had And there are also times you could come back and say we're not going to be able to Do nine and a half percent or ten percent for capital this year. We have to close this gap So when we do two and a half percent increases on the opera it's only on the operating budgets And within each operating budget the town school We have to cover benefits in there So there's two and a half percent increase. We have to cover all of the salary increases that are contractual and Then we have to make sure we cover all of the health insurance increases and if there's any money left over that's what departments Basically compete for for additions in their operating budgets or in their personnel budgets and usually the town manager has a an Adlist that he puts together what his priorities are to add or restore From there So it's basically the budget guidelines have always been pretty much what our estimates are for revenue What our estimates are for spending and it's a moving target so To be practical about this. I think we probably at this point should see if people are first of all if you're comfortable with my taking a stab at doing a draft of combining the two and and to assume make an assumption that We are going to adopt the recommendations from the Presentation that we received of the initial budget page from the trends report, which is traditionally the starting point for discussion We need to schedule our next meeting which I was hoping will not be December 3rd For the reasons stated before so I need to people to get calendars out for that That would be the date we would do this We will try to see if we can have the town manager at least be here for part of the meeting so that if there are questions that You wanted to ask him To do it, but I think we need to see what we can to move this along as quickly I don't think that we need to make it complicated because the Goals piece for spending I think is just going to be Substantially hashed out once again by the council I don't think that we're going to be the ones who are going to Have the final word on it nor should it have the final word on it What we really are more conscious of of wanting to make sure that they have sufficient time to deal with it in over more than one meeting as opposed to Trying to feel badly about Delaying it so I think I'd rather move it but certainly welcome to other thoughts about it, so that's kind of What I was thinking so I actually had a meeting on December 3rd penciled in for us I did too, but we have a problem with the two listening sessions that day for the capital projects One of which overlaps in time with when we'd be likely to be meeting The capital projects listening session starts at 3 30 I Won't be here on the on that date because of the role. I have to play in those And I think that Kathy you and I have the same problem and Dorothy right Well Lynn has to go She has to be there so and I was at least Planning on going because I can't go to the other two so I wanted to listen to two of them So we're really looking for another meeting time correct and it should and it needs to be Before the 17th Is that what you I mean 16th? Is that what you're trying to do? Anybody have a problem with that I can send out an inquiry the fourth is better for me for that what time Fourth I am wide open I do From 3 o'clock on You have to know you're teaching schedule Not that it matters, but I'm not here on the fourth. I'm away at a conference How I don't know how long the conference is it's all day. It's just one day. Yeah I I'll rearrange something I could do the fifth it would be better if I We didn't meet till three but I could rearrange something and meet earlier Shall I send out an inquiry With the rest of the members of the committee to other they're available at 230 Okay, so I will do that Yeah, we want to keep this moving So 230 on 12 5 Let's see if we can do that and I'll get you'll see something to the entire committee when I send that out So anything else that people want to ask or discuss about the guidelines because although I said move it along to a couple of other things Yes, while we're on so we're meeting on the 17th at 230 though December 17th, I think so because we're gonna have a lot of things that we're not getting to The other thing we need to talk about But we're not gonna spend much time on it today Is we need to close out the discussion on the housing? Policy I don't know when you were expecting that to come back before the council when it gets there and The other of course is percent for art which Kathy can give us a report on but we do not need to get That into a serious discussion Fairly soon By the 16th well, you'll have it earlier, but you will have that talk revised document The finance committee will it's done. So we'll we'll be doing that on the 7th or the 19th So probably the 19th. I'm sorry the The whatever this or the 17th On the 17th, I can come earlier because I have a final exam that gets out at 12 30. So if you think we're gonna have a big Carpet bag of a meeting I could get here by 130 I'm fine. I always feel like I want to finish things up before the holidays Yeah, I'm coming back on Sunday. I'm fine that week we're trying to We've already said we'll pull for the December 5th But I think we said the 4th or the 5th, right? Yeah, but now I'm just asking and confirming that we're meeting on the 17th of December. Yeah. Yeah, that had previously scheduled. I so just so you'll pull us in the on the 4th versus the 5th Because shella needs not here, right? Yes. I'll put both dates on just to see okay. I Might word it that we were Leaning to the 5th, but we want to ask about both dates So we know that we have those do you have anything that you wanted to tell us more about the Major capital investment listening sessions. I think I put that on there as an in case Just we've we the group that's been Advising this which has done a phenomenal job has finished up We start videotaping The five people who are going to be part of the videotapes And the PowerPoints they start taping tomorrow and they finish on Monday, and then we hope we're looking at an edited document video sometime Probably the day before Thanksgiving and then we Start posting all the material on December 2nd in the morning and then we start the listing sessions on December 3rd a Lot of people have put in and a more enormous amount of work on this and he included He did most of the drafting for the frequently asked questions But you and Kathy did a lot of work Because I didn't get involved in the process until we were getting towards the frequently asked questions part We ran into trouble the But you created the questions. It's easier to answer the questions than the creative actually in any event I Think we've taken care of that as far as the budget process calendar and FY 20 meeting schedule. I Think the what I just to let two of you who weren't involved in the meetings last year Bob and Sharon know what happened And I will try and get this out in a memo and explain a little bit of how the process worked and get feedback for the next meeting that way We really had to take the old finance committee process of being able to meet with department heads and review budgets in a much shorter time frame Because and I've explained this is I think previously when you were considering joining the committee see it be aware of it But we literally were meeting twice a week during the month of May. It was a just a one-month thing But it was the only way we could deal with the requirements that We would get the budget From the town manager on the 1st of May and have 30 days to turn it around and to make recommendations So that what's likely is that we will have regular Tuesday meetings Through up until that point Whether there's a need for additional meetings this round Because we were actually we're doing weekly meetings for a while But I don't think we need to necessarily do that this year because the purpose of it was to Give new members of the finance committee information about how the budget process and financial rules work Think that this year we can go back and to just staying on a bi-weekly basis Up until the point where we're getting the budget, but we then really do need to have those twice weekly meetings Otherwise we have to decide that it's not important to meet with the heads of the various departments and be able to ask them the questions that we asked and That's really what I think is going to be the thing for you to think about because Sharon you've been through the experience and you know the kinds of questions you ask the amount of time and You know think about and I'll ask Mary Lou the same question as to whether you can envision doing it in only four meetings or whether you Agree that the bi-weekly schedule for that very brief period is necessary So I will need your input on that Need Mary Lou's input on that too And either one put that on it Maybe that part of it was getting educated, but we'd talk separately about potentially doing a Longer a dedicated meeting on enterprise funds to have enough time to talk about Not just the next fiscal year, but a little bit longer term and on reserves So whether that would be Telescoped into May or whether we could do that earlier would be my question You know, so it's it's a question rather than a this is what I think that we should do So that was just it and I was trying to figure out from this larger list of when the budget is where whether How often we would be meeting in January February March, you know So are we every other week finance should I assume that I'm gonna put that in my calendar? You know that Tuesday after you know, so I was just looking forward because it's important for me to block time And I can always free it up It's actually glad you brought that up because there's one more piece and that is that We were also going to ask for more information about how water and sewer rates are set and an understanding of the the development of the recommendation prior to that coming to the Council and the committee So sort of an educational piece on that we need that would be another issue to write to take up and So it's really to enterprise things you're thinking of the I mean the only thing you can do before you get the budget from the town manager Is how enterprise funds are structured and you know, I did understand that but it's also like what? Potentially if we'd had longer time we would have found out centennial was due to be completely rebuilt and two more things were coming to us later that we didn't know about yet, you know just a longer discussion of What else is out there? So the the other question I had on the timeline that we got it has November 21st a capital plan forum is that real is that just a Did I just delete it? I just on I downloaded the things that came to us or is that I Didn't I didn't what it's it's on the printed list and and I'm assuming that's not real because I haven't really heard about it and it's two days from now did a budget forum Right after we did the financial indicators and we did a master plan forum on the end of October I Don't think there's No, I know it's not happening on the 21st and the question is I think what we need to do is to And I don't want to do it now take a look at the charter what their requirement is and I think we need to also have a discussion about where the JCPC process is and make sure that The joint capital planning committee Has the benefit of having the forum at a time that is most informative for them Yeah, I think it is the regional capital forum Thank you, and that's not a requirement of the charter. That's just what they do But we do have a requirement for a capital We do it, but we won't be doing that until the spring Unless it's advantageous for the joint capital planning committee to In the public to be able to speak before JCPC acts as opposed to after that's fine So I think that's really what the maybe what the question that's that's the other you know we didn't Okay Yeah, one last thing is Just real quick, and then we're gonna I think we can adjourn we got this letter from the regional schools yesterday and We don't have to take that up to today's meeting. We do have to take it up at our next meeting If we are going to recommend to Council that it consider Objecting to the Provision to that capital expenditure there's a 60-day limit for action and So it's it's something that we just need to decide whether we're gonna make a recommendation or make no recommendation I think in the past Finance committees have generally not There's also a peculiarity that exists in the entire process and that is that The statute only refers to select boards and town meetings and doesn't refer to councils because they've never had a city that's been a part of a Region yes I'm just talking the side of my actually had conversation with Sean mangana about this in length And there's really no action that needs to happen at all on this This is a barring authorization that everybody's already voted on back in fiscal year 18 It's just a housekeeping item to get rid of those words because we have a new DOR Staff that don't like these words and they want them out of here. So we have Sean's just trying to clean it up before he leaves Leaves us. I don't want to cry when I say that But basically if no action happens in the town clerk just has to Certify that no action happened, but there's you can't really not vote this You couldn't bring it to recommend and not vote it because we're already paying debt service on this is these projects are already done We're already paying for it So it's really Thank you. It's helpful to know it would have been more helpful if we've been told that earlier Thank you very much Yeah, I think that is what the problem was Yeah, I think that's why we need to say that because I think that your point is well taken. Thank you Thank you, Sonia Okay So can we adjourn? Hey our idols Three three to zero to adjourned Two members absent and I want to thank everybody for being here It was a meeting where we covered a lot of territory, but we I think we actually did some good stuff So thank you, and I want to again thank our Non-voting members for your your participation. I think it's been great. Thank you And thank you Amherst media