 Hello and welcome everyone to JSA TV and JSA broadcasts, the newsroom for telecom and data center professionals. I'm João Lima and on behalf of the team here at JSA, thank you so much for tuning in for our latest virtual CEO roundtable. If you have any questions about upcoming roundtables, whatever it may be, such as how to register or how to participate, feel free to reach out to us through our website at jsa.net. And by the way, just as a reminder to bring a calendar, our next virtual roundtable will cover shaking down the digitally-vite rural broadband access across America, and that will take place on April the 15th at 1 p.m. Eastern time. But without further delay, let's get started. Our topic today is rising above COVID-19, the latest developments in hybrid cloud applications. The COVID-19 pandemic catapulted our industry into a rapid period of development and technological advancement to support entire workforces in classrooms online. This new normal has had a profound impact on the adoption of hybrid clouds and the overall development and advancements of cloud applications. During this session, we will discuss those developments and how our industry has come together to persevere. It is my pleasure now to introduce to you our exceptional executive lineup who are waiting on the topic. And joining us today, we have Brian Bean, Executive Vice President of Product and Technical Services at Thrive, Joel Osman, Managing Director of Digital Experience and Design at Mavenwave. Brian Schultz, Enterprise Architect at Involta. Phil Kenney, Sea of Infinites. And Harish Chayakuma, Global Leads of Applications Modernization Solution Management at Google Cloud. Everyone, thank you so much for joining me. Let's start by giving a quick introduction of who you want, what you do, and also, with that, can you give us your biggest lesson learned during lockdown? Brian, do you want to do the heads? Absolutely. Thank you very much, Joel. Brian Schultz, Enterprise Architect with Involta. We're a hybrid IT cloud services and consulting firm. The biggest lesson I think I've learned throughout the pandemic is that no matter the age, the ability to adapt to technology has been amazing. And that's just something that surprised me, whether young with school or older, doesn't really matter. The adaptation has been amazing. Been definitely quite a time. Harish, do you want to tell us what you do a little bit more about what you do and one of the lessons you've learned over the last 12 months? Sure. Hello, Ruben. Thanks for having me. I'm Harish Chayakuma. I lead the application modernization solutions team here at Google. My biggest lesson learned, if I may, over here at least in this past year has been with COVID is I was actually surprised how many more customer meetings and customers I could actually speak to and learn about without hopping on a flight. I used to travel so much and I spent so much time just for like a couple of hours of meeting. Yes, I missed the in-person networks, but I was able to get much more customer meetings done for different time zones just over a conference call. Yeah, that's very interesting. I think post COVID will be much more, we'll be looking much more into what events we're actually going to go to and what trips we're going to take for work. But thank you, Harish. And then Joel? Sure, Joel. Joel Lozman. I'm with Mavenwave. We are a cloud infrastructure development and consulting firm. I actually lead our user experience, what we call experience design practice, as well as our custom cloud application development. So we've been working with clients across a number of different industries and a number of different projects in and around both free and post pandemic. And what I can say I've learned in the last 12 months is that I've seen that companies, IT operations can adjust working models, similar to what Ryan said. We have a lot of clients that previously had required in-person, on-site scrum teams needed the right business and technology people there in person. We always had more of a virtual model that we espoused, but many of them said, well, I don't ever work here. And they've been able to see, sometimes with a bit of our help, that it can be done. And that flexibility to echo what Ryan said, I think it's been interesting to see the adjustments that have been made with different companies and different models to make it work. In a way, this has pushed us to think outside the box. I believe it will be models. That's very interesting. But well, thank you, Joel. And then, Brian. Thanks, Joel. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Brian Bean. I'm the EVP of Product and Technical Services at Thrive. Thrive is a managed services provider and we're focused on next generation managed services, including hybrid cloud, cybersecurity, disaster recovery and professional services that enable digital transformation. I think the biggest lesson I've learned is that organizations that can easily adapt to change have really had minimal impact related to the lockdowns and any of the COVID-related restrictions. Companies that have adopted cloud prior to the pandemic were far less impacted by a remote workforce compared to the organizations that were still heavily relying on internal systems that had limited access to those systems outside of the walls of the office. Super interesting. Thank you, Brian. But let's crack on. And just for the sake of making sure we're all on the same page here, shall we define what hybrid cloud is to begin with? Maybe, Harish, do you want to go first? Sure. Happy to. So I mean, if you actually break it down, hybrid in its true sense is more than one, right? There's a mixture. So that's the same thing that you apply when you talk about specifically hybrid cloud. So basically, it's it's a mixture of four customers who have some amount of presence to say on premise in their own data center and some parts of it in a public cloud. That's why it's private and public together is typically what you call as a combination, which is a hybrid cloud. So it could be either Google Cloud, AWS, Azure, any of the public clouds, as well as you have your some of the workloads or your applications still in the private cloud. And I know private cloud being inside your data center, something that's just kept for your internal customers as well. Now, the reason could be a bunch of things. One, because I mean internalizing like your basic customers. The reasons could be a couple of things. One could be like, listen, you have some financial customer, you don't want to put your data in the cloud. So you need to keep your data still on-prem, could be a reason. Or maybe you're in a journey. So for example, as an application modernization leader, I work with a bunch of customers who talk about modernizing and getting to the cloud. And that's not going to happen overnight. So there's going to be that time frame over which you need some pieces that are going to be still on-prem and some pieces which are still going to be in the cloud. So during that time frame, you could still need to have a hybrid cloud methodology as well. So that's how I would clarify what hybrid cloud is. And this is, I think that kind of sums up well what hybrid cloud is. Unless anyone has anything you want to add, maybe Brian, would you like to? Yeah, I think one key component, you know, this is a difference between multi-cloud and hybrid cloud, right? Multi-cloud is having workloads that reside in different clouds, whether they're on-prem clouds, private cloud, public cloud. But the orchestration layer that manages all of those in the interaction between those different platforms is, you know, really a key component, you know, in my mind for hybrid cloud. 100 percent. And let's spot on, Brian. And we're also having, I mean, in fact, a lot of my conversations today are multi-cloud. Like, I've been doing this for quite some time before I was at Docker and then EMC talking about these kind of cloud journeys. And at that time, we were talking about multi-cloud as like, hey, something that could happen. And now it's reality. Most of the customers have stopped the cloud journey or either, I would say, the mature crowd, if I may, or most of them are looking at a multi-cloud strategy and they want one orchestration layer across these clouds. And how did they do that? So a good difference, like what Brian said, multi-cloud versus hybrid cloud. No, that's good to point out, because sometimes there is a bit of confusion out there. OK, well, thank you guys. But then let's crack on now into the main topic of the panel. There's been a lot of things happening over the last 12 months with Covid's. Covid has really impacted cloud adoption from what we've seen. And that goes from anything related to cloud services, the way they are provisioned, cost models, start-up usage of clouds. I mean, how has Covid 19 really changed hybrid cloud applications? And has the industry managed the demand correctly, in your opinion, Joel? Yeah, thanks. Certainly, we've seen, I've seen uptick in the adoption of remote work and collaboration tools. We do a lot of implementation and change management services around Google Workspace, which is called G Suite and other tools like it. So everyone across all industries is certainly taking the opportunity to accelerate remote collaboration, cloud-based collaboration work. So we're seeing that on the cloud-based development front. You know, you see different things in different industries from the pandemic. I mean, we've started seeing slowdown into certain project initiatives, mainly due to uncertain revenue or budget cycles, things put on hold while we try to work our way through some of the pandemic related issues. But we've also seen spikes in other industries and certain solutions, for example, telehealth. We've been doing a lot, and I'm sure others are accelerating plans around telehealth and some of the relaxing of some of the government restrictions regarding access to telehealth has really moved up the time frames, if you will, of a lot of health care providers and other specialists there in terms of how they're going to be provide technology driven telehealth and telehealth related solutions. We've also seen a lot on stake in local government. You know, they're they're all wrestling with whether it's unemployment systems or getting people back to work. There's a number of opportunities where the rapid development cycles that you associated with cloud development really lend themselves to these type of tactical emergency projects that a lot of state and local governments are trying to come on board. And then lastly, just we've seen some e-commerce, right? Everyone's starting to figure out how are they going to digitally transform their business? And while it was something that I would say almost every company was looking at pre-pandemic, it's very much accelerated. You know, if we hadn't gone digital, if we hadn't looked to be flexible and utilize cloud computing to do more in this time frame, we certainly are looking at it now because it's not so much for competitive advantage. It's, you know, it's for staying alive and serving our customers and where they're at, you know. So like I said, there's been some ups and downs, if you will, relative to different industries, different types of solutions. But I would say there's just been a generally accelerated pace towards this digitization, if you will, of how businesses get run. And that lends itself to the flexibility that come with hybrid and multi-cloud solutions. So it's almost like the story in our mind has been accelerated and cranked up at a relative rapid pace, more around business survival than around competitive advantage. Although, you know, those advantages are still there, right? Long term, the investments we're seeing around these solutions are certainly going to pay off long term. But there's been an urgency that I think, you know, from a business standpoint, the pandemic has certainly accelerated for a lot of the clients that we talked to in those particular industries where it's most relevant. I mean, that's very interesting. There's a recent McKinsey study as well. It really shows that adoption or digitalization of services and consumption of digital services has speeded up by about three to seven years. I mean, in the first of 12 months, we've gone into the future. We are in 2028 now when it comes to digital. But Ryan, would you like to add anything else to what George said? Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things that we've seen out in the industry is that you have those those organizations that have been extremely focused on the customer. They've been looking at the customer. They've been, you know, making all the improvements they can for the customer, but they haven't looked necessarily introspectively at their organization. How could they improve process? How can they reduce cost? Those kinds of things. So I think the pandemic has also helped to to bring that visibility to the inside of inside for organizations to help them really understand that, you know, the impact to their revenue and impact to their costs can be significantly changed by things that they've done internally. It's not always just an outward focused approach with the customer base. Don't get me wrong, it's a it's still an 8020 kind of approach, right? With any kind of organization that's the selling a product or getting services out to their customer base. But you have to look introspectively to see am I doing the right thing? Am I needing to shift my technology to another place? Do I need to take a different approach than what we've done for the last eight years that we've been successful? And I think it's really taken some folks that have been really successful for a really long time and knocked them on their ear. Retail industry is a prime example, you know, building more and more and more stores. Amazing, great, wonderful. But then you realize if nobody's going to the stores, that accelerates your your failure in those those instances. So being able to make that an adaptation and then take some of that internal focus on how to think different has been something that's that I've seen more and more of my customer base doing. Yeah, I just want to put a finger on what Joe and Ryan said. We're having the same. I mean, if for all anything, it's just accelerated everything, the moment to the cloud or and most of the time, even recently, last week, I was having a conversation with the CIA where it's about completely reducing cost. And they're like what they had planned to accelerate to the cloud in three years. Now they want to do this in like six months. So that's the kind of fast time frame they're actually trying to see if they can jump and go to. And I also wanted to kind of highlight just like I think Ryan brought up about the retail pieces, right? Like people are no longer doing the store. And suddenly now they are like, OK, curbside picking. And these retail teams, they don't have that kind of facility. So they quickly wanted to go, how do I do that? Like a spin up a mobile app, get that ready, spin up on serverless, completely managed, like all that is done in like a couple of weeks they wanted like the first feature to be so that they still need to stay in the business, right? So those kind of conversations are really, really starting to happen with a lot of our customers as well. That's just interesting. And it goes in line with what Jordan Ryan also said. That's just interesting. Let's move on to the next question that we've got. And let's talk about the biggest single development in the hydrocard space over the last 12 months. I think we've got filled back. So let's try and get filled up. Oh, here we go. Go ahead. No, no, it's also, it wouldn't be a webinar without a glitch. Also, tell us what's been your biggest lesson over the last 12 months in addition to what's the biggest development in hypercloud? Sure. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I apologize for the inconvenience here. Yeah, our biggest lesson in the last 12 months that we've seen and that I've seen has been the proliferation of application by application management that's needed. People are moving very quickly. I hardly should mention the pickup curbside pickup. People are building applications very quickly. And they need hardware. They need infrastructure and network connectivity. And they need access to the systems to be able to do that. The biggest challenge that we've seen for people relates to, again, back to the commentary about retail. And you see it in the doctor's offices and things like that is now everything's done from home. And how do you create, how does an end user within an enterprise have a consolidated view of applications and still secure view of those applications while the IT team and the team in the company is trying to manage those application by application and still adjusting? And being able to provide consistent access for businesses to private cloud, public cloud applications and in-house applications that they need to run their business but do it remotely puts a big burden on security, puts a big burden on the end user and also puts a big burden on network connectivity that is needed now to manage a remote workforce. Everyone working from home obviously is going to create a lot more chances for people to do what they shouldn't. What would you say has been the biggest development that the pandemic has driven in terms of security development around clouds? Brian, would you like to take that one? Yes. So I really can't say that any of those cloud security changes or development have been driven specifically by the pandemic. But we are starting to see an increased focus from customers around cloud workload protection and CASB or cloud access security broker services. Traditional security is basically focused on the network perimeter and end users and as companies transition to hybrid cloud it becomes a little more difficult to enforce security without additional tools that help them do that. So public cloud said they have good security monitoring tools but in general they are typically specific to their platform so as you move into a multi-cloud and hybrid cloud environment you need tools that can look across the expanse of where those workloads reside and be able to collect logs and generate alerts, identify whether maybe excessive permissions granted, misconfigurations and other public exposures all of these things that increase the attack surface. So we are seeing demand for tools like SIM, security information event management and cloud work space protection and then cloud access security broker which sits between the end user and the cloud platforms to enforce those the cloud access and the security policies that extend beyond the traditional network. What would you say is the biggest mistake that sometimes enterprises make when it comes to their cybersecurity strategy around clouds? I think it's lack of enforcement of security policies that they would typically have within the traditional network environment so as you get you expand into the cloud and users have access into those workloads, there may be specific permissions that need to be granted versus allowing all users to access everything that's in the cloud. When you have shadow IT that's creating their own cloud instances without really the knowledge of the security team that can also open up exposure. So it's really having a comprehensive security policy around cloud and putting the tools in place that allow the invisibility into those cloud platforms and workloads and being able to manage that. That's cool. I haven't heard shadow IT in a long time. Ryan, I know you're quite strong when it comes to cybersecurity as well and we will go through some other families to talk about security. What would you say has been the biggest development around security? I think just more of the focus on that end user has occurred. You'll always have tools, you'll always have greater tools better tools but at the end of the day your least common denominator is the human that's sitting behind the keyboard. So as we've looked at more and more adoption of remote access, remote workforce we've had to kind of counsel customers through moving their posture from just focusing on their tiny block, their tiny data center and really starting to take more into account the end user that kind of has gotten forgotten along the way whether it's through training and education or it's moving the things that they consume to cloud-based services like Google Workspaces or O365 but then you also look at the education space, you look at schools. I've been impressed with how we've been able to rapidly adjust and adapt to giving an eight-year-old a laptop and taking home and they have to remember now usernames and passwords and be more concerned about security and really making changes there. So I think some of the biggest shifts that I've seen the tools have gotten better but our education levels have increased significantly across the board and our consumers in the space. It's been, again, back to my original comment when we started, super impressive at the adaptation capabilities that I've seen across the organization or across the... It's probably one of the few positive things coming out of everything that we're living. And then, Harish, I mean, Google is huge when it comes to security and then of course remote working in online classrooms. I mean, I just want to again and I think all the speakers are spot on my thoughts are just resonating with the same thing. We're starting to give more of the shift-left security if you may, the more and more towards, you know, when you're starting to build these applications, people... We've taken a step back and looked at it holistically rather than like, let me think of security as this add-on that I need to do after I've done everything. Somebody tweeted yesterday and I really liked what they actually said about this is like, we need to move away from thinking about adding security to be just being as part of your building your application. So we're seeing more and more conversations when you go on the developer's side is this whole concept of shift-left security on how can I add security and compliance as I'm writing my application itself without even having to think about it because that's the only way to get that tight lock good security over there, right? Like you said, Google is like super, super... takes us very, very seriously. So like, even for us, you know, having to go inside an office there were the kind of changes I'm seeing. I'm actually really impressed with how we, as humans, we've adopted to all these changes. It's just amazing. Maybe it was a change in the waiting. I mean, you see so many countries now adopting the four-day week. But I think the point that you make about how do you onboard new stuff during COVID that's quite interesting from a security perspective. That's sort of like a whole different round table but that's very, very interesting. And Phil, would you like to add anything to the security chat? Yeah, I think that the big thing that we see, similar to what everybody's saying, is security is now part of the fabric of an operation. It's not just a side add-on to what you're doing. It's now part of the fabric of every operation and the conversations we're having with our customers is that security should be part of the fabric of your being now, given all the accessibility that people could have when you think about your home network and you think about all the devices connected to your home network and now that network is connecting to the enterprise through hybrid cloud or through private cloud or public cloud or even into someone's local network. So the security is becoming part of the fabric of the way people operate, along with trying to provide those proper business applications. Anyone else would like to add anything else on the security front? I guess there's enough security for COVID. I mean, the next thing I would like to talk about and we kind of already touched on it, it's around cloud verticalization. I mean, this is not something new or exclusive to COVID. I guess COVID has just speeded up the development of such clouds. So we are talking about clouds, for example, financial services, eHealth, as you guys mentioned, eCommerce, gaming, which is a huge new vertical, developing even some verticals within itself. I mean, how have things changed over the last 12 months around cloud verticalization? And maybe Phil, let me come back to you on that one. Sorry, Harish. Sorry. Oh, the vertical solutions, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think it's, you know, I think I just want to maybe highlight some of the things that the folks before me talked about each of this, right? For example, let's take the detailed pieces that I talked about, you know, the pickup on the curbside, that was a huge thing. On the healthcare side, right? Again, because we have our own video conferencing, Google conferencing solution, a lot of the, how do we actually make sure that we help the, both the patient side and the doctor side really connect using our video conferencing? That's been huge, huge over the last year. And we've actually taken it up a notch. It's not only just about these virtual visits that you can just do, but also how can we make sure that most of these medical services are actually available to both the patients and the doctors? Well, the ability for a doctor to be able to easily collect information about the patient securely and their symptoms and also put them in a medical record, also securely so that, and they can try to monitor the patient over time. And this is one thing which, there's always been something that requires like you have to go to the office, wait there, wait in the first room for 30 minutes, then go to the next room and wait for 30 minutes and then you'll go to it. So a lot of positive feedback as well in terms of how they've been able to do that. And then first talk on the government side, as most of you know recently how the employment benefits in NYC, you know, that the systems were like old legacy mainframe systems. So we worked with a bunch of them or I think like it was around two weeks to be able to quickly ensure that all the people are actually getting their employment benefits as well. So you see in each vertical there's like strong innovation that's happening that's being driven. Yeah, so those are the things that have been seeing that's been happening over this. That's interesting. I think maybe there's also been more understanding on how to use to different clouds and even how you power different services. I mean in Europe, one thing that we've experienced a lot was the rationalization rationing of cloud services and bandwidth to make sure that the services could co-op. So for example, I think even Google and Netflix you reduced traffic by about 25% so the healthcare services could have enough bandwidth to carry on. So I think particularization is a huge topic. Joel, would you like to add something? Yeah, I was going to say too around compliance and reporting and there's certain attributes. You look at the flexibility of cloud-based solutions it's terrific. You can do almost anything in a ridiculously shorter period of time than you would on-prem, but what ends up happening is we'll wait a minute. I need, for example, HIPAA compliance in the healthcare space. I have very specific reporting needs in the government or financial services space. I need to be doing consent monitoring back to healthcare again. So there are very verticalized solutions that you could build, if you will, on top of core cloud components but as the cloud providers move their way up these vertical stacks you're seeing more and more vertical type solutions. We talked about Google has a healthcare API that is specifically focused on how I set up consent and managed data. We're doing a lot with chat and voice bot development and is your chat bot development tool HIPAA compliant? So what we're starting to see is a march up the stack, if you will, in that it's not just about virtual VMs and bandwidth, it's now can I really bring these verticalized specific solutions and bring pieces out of the cloud that are whether server-less or server-based that have more of the core functionality that I need from a compliance and reporting standpoint then I can just put my differentiation on top of it. So we're seeing that I think all the cloud providers, everyone's running to see if they can do that and raise the stakes in the stack, if you will. I think that's a really good point that you raise, especially around cloud compliance. Phil, would you like to go next or is your question? We also see similar to what Joel was just saying, we're seeing a lot of people move applications to various cloud, with their various cloud needs, whether it be private cloud or public cloud, or sitting behind again, sitting behind their firewall and things like we see in the healthcare space, some of our customers are putting images in a public cloud and they're putting all their data processing in a private cloud and they need to tie it together because they do evaluation of the imagery of what to be able to see what kind of trends are taking place with their customer base here and then we see that with our customers here. So I think it's not just the segmentation of the verticalization itself but it is sub-application verticalization that we're seeing that even takes it further and lets people further advance what they're doing. And we will talk more about that but let me just remind our audience that if you want to ask any questions, use our NavTab on the right side of your screen and we'll soon be kicking in with the audience Q&A as well. But now let's talk about something that has been spoken about a lot, even before COVID as well which is edge computing applications. I mean this was hailed as the next big thing that's already been in the making for a while now but how has COVID-19 forced the development of edge cloud applications? Ryan, would you like to go on that one? Yeah, absolutely. So as we've talked to our different customers out there we have some specific verticals we work within, financial and healthcare and manufacturing. You start to see the need to get data faster to make faster decisions to have more of a realistic just-in-time manufacturing process for example manufacturing is really where I've seen the biggest conversation happening along with food retail, grocery stores, things like that. But you're talking about we're starting to build product but we need to do that analysis faster. We need to do it closer to the manufacturing plant. We need to be able to do materials inventorying against demand requests happening in near real time and having that edge compute, that edge capability is really going to drive for those industries. Think of a grocery store, if they have they've done their inventory electronically as it's been received and then they have the app pickups they have the in-store usage you need to be able to process for an individual store closer to them and be able to get them the data faster to make decisions on reorder and things like that. So edge is going to be more and more of a viable conversation in those verticals without a doubt it's about getting that experience closer to the customer because now we're starting to have an expectation as the consumer that things are happening faster everybody's doing everything remote, it used to be you drove across town and you could wait 20 minutes to get your groceries and now you're starting to have some changed expectations I want things faster, I want my information faster I need to get my groceries faster or whatever that may be so that change in expectation is going to change the innovation that happens in the marketplace as well. That's interesting and I get the speed and digital adoption and digitalization of services in our lives as well over the last 12 months definitely comes into line with what you just said but Arish again I mean Google lots of points of presence, lots of different little things around the world what's your take on edge computing? Yeah I mean retail, manufacturing and energy industries are mostly facing this growing demand to provide like specific localized consistent low latency services and they want them to be able to expose these compute services such as machine learning influencing and predictions data aggregation or running their corporate software so in my conversations they're actually designing their 2-5 year product and technology roadmaps and they're also looking for these platforms that can address basically three main concerns which is what I'm hearing is network inconsistency ease of operations and cost efficiency so that's the kind of platforms they're rapidly trying to deploy and use these services from the cloud at these different edge locations. Ben Quick one, do you think the market is answering the edge of demand correctly? Is there enough provision of infrastructure services that you've seen or we need to do it even faster especially now? I mean we could always do better if I was to say that the demand is always there as in when we start and just like all the past 30 minutes of discussions, just if anything it's just accelerated more and more with COVID. That's good, Ryan would you like to add something there as well? Yeah, I think we're going to see faster and faster development with everything that's happening. I think people are trying to figure out what edge means to them and what kind of benefit it can bring to their organization and I think just to my comments earlier that introspective look will help to realize that maybe building the bigger, faster monstrosity that's in your individual data center isn't the answer. It's consuming services at the edge from an AWS and Azure, Google service providers like us, Ed and Volta and others. It's about getting to that location where your customer base is and being able to consume things that are more off the shelf from a services standpoint without having to build everything yourself and that's going to help people to understand how to get closer to that edge use case. That sounds good and I mean Edge is only one of the things that's happening in our marketplace. There's a lot of different and new technologies coming into place. Let's look into the future even beyond COVID. COVID is going to speed everything up but what's next? There's a lot of things that we've seen coming out that will effectively transform once again the hybrid cloud application game. You can talk about pretty much anything here from serverless computing, automated cloud orchestration, cloud containers. There's so many things that we can pick up. Let's go around and see what everyone thinks. Joel, I'm going to put you on the spot and get you to start. Yeah, that's a good point. We've talked a lot about the forced digitization of the pandemic as certain industries and companies have been forced into cloud-based, very flexible environments. There's another path here that is less directly impacted by the pandemic but that we're seeing as well that speaks to the future and it's about these waves of change. We see a lot of clients now who are very focused on infrastructure right now. Just get my virtual machines from the data center to the cloud or get me out of the data center altogether. A lot of data center take out type of work. I'm going to reduce and manage costs long-term getting out of the data center. What are the tools and technologies that are evolving? You mentioned serverless microservices. There are certain things out there that enable you to rethink how your applications are built to prepare them for a hybrid cloud multi-cloud type environment. We're seeing a lot of that as a phase two once I've sorted out my infrastructure costs. Lastly, what are the new things I can do and I think what you're going to see a lot more is things around tapping into machine learning, for example. You've got a strictly on-prem environment. It's hard to tap into everything going on in the MLA world. As soon as you've moved to a multi or hybrid cloud environment, I can now start to tap into those types of services. I think you're going to be able to see once I've sorted out my infrastructure and got my costs under control, I've modernized my applications, I've put them in containers, I'm running in one or more cloud environments, it's the next wave that's going to be the value drivers out of that. We cut the costs. What are all the values? In particular, ML and AI are going to be component of that, but it's really going to give you a chance as well to re-evaluate your entire digital experience. That's where the intersection of forced digitization and this longer term digitization are all going to come together. Once I've implemented all this and I have these cloud enabled worlds and flexibility in my fingertips, what are going to be the high value business disruptions that are going to be coming out? Then from my cloud provider standpoint as we march up that vertical ladder I talked about, what are the types of services that are going to be specific to industries, even specific to companies? I talked about that ML, AI wave, it's not just going to be about generic machine learning models, it's going to be about industry specific or even client specific and customer specific machine learning models that I can now very quickly make use of and turn the crank on because I've evolved into these new environments. Like I said, I think it's going to be core structure to modernizing, containerizing flexible applications to then the next big ideas powered by the changes that came before. That's very interesting, I mean this is really going to transform the way we do business. We're almost running out of time but Ryan, would you like to just talk some last few words on that question? Sure, the thing that I see a massive shift in is going to be connectivity. We're doing more and more connectivity, it used to be T1s and DS3s and things like that, that was all great and then you got into gig connectivity but we're starting to get to the point where you can't drag fiber, there's balloons that were used for connectivity, there's going to be 5G wireless, that connectivity footprint is going to have to change a shift and grow faster because we can't just keep bearing cable across the country to get to the connectivity place that we need for all businesses to be successful and to be able to consume those cloud services and edge use cases and things like that. You know, I'm from Iowa, we're not exactly the mecca of connectivity, like you might find on the east and west coast but we still have many businesses that need to be serviced and have needs within our spaces and connectivity dragging fiber across the state of Iowa will take years and years and years so how do we shift and adapt that communication, that connectivity low orbital satellite 5G wireless things like that are going to be pretty big shifts I think in the next couple of years. Okay Ryan, thank you so much, I mean I've got a lot of questions but I'm afraid that's all we have time for today. Thank you so much you guys for joining us today and on behalf of our panelists I would like to thank everyone for tuning in and for participating in today's roundtable. Just a big reminder that our speakers are staying for the remainder of the lunch hour to answer any more of your questions and meet them back at networking lounge at the table. And to you our viewers, if you are one of our first 100 registrants we hope you enjoyed your lunch make sure you visit us at jsa.net to register for more upcoming JSA virtual roundtables including our next one which takes place on April the 15th where leaders in our industry will talk about shaking down the digital divide rural broadband access across America and as a wrap from us, look out for the playback of today's roundtable coming soon to JSA TV and JSA podcasts on YouTube, iTunes, iHeart, Spotify and many more other places. In wingtime, see you back in the networking lounge and happy networking.