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You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. Hi Rich Mob from Boston, is that correct? Yeah, my uncle was one of the founders. How we went there along with Buddy McLean. Before we get into everything, no brother, I would like to go back to the start. Get a bit of understanding about you, where you grew up and how it all began. I grew up, tell Boston, Dorchester, fourth grade education. I wasn't good in school, finished up my education in prison and I had to tell everybody, I gotta be honest. I did it to get out of my damn cell. What was family life like then? Did you understand what the family business was or were you oblivious to it? I was oblivious till I was a teenager. Quite late then? Yeah, my mother, which is detailed in chapter one of The Devil to Pay of mobsters wrote the petition. Where can people buy it? It's on pre-sale all around the world right now. I think it's in 20 different languages. It's Blackstone Publishing, Barnes & Noble. My daughter, my 27 year old daughter actually said that. She sent me a picture, she said the kind of thing with you and a picture and targets already with your book. But it comes out March 26th, 2024, Blackstone Publishing, but it's everywhere. Did your mom try to keep you away from that leaf? No, aha. My mother was, for lack of better words, a gun mole. She was a whore. She was pregnant with me. Never met my biological father. I was the bastard seed of the family. Then she was shackled up with another guy that was fixing horse races for the Irish mom. And he beat her pretty bad one night. I think she was about seven months pregnant with me. And the gentleman that raised me, who I consider my father, was a Jewish bookie. That guy disappeared. They said he went to Florida. No one's ever, no one ever saw him again. It's funny though, because everybody always say this, but every bad man I've met, every mother, kidnap, drug lord, prostitute, porn star, they all come from a broken home. My mother was a prostitute. She got hooked on drugs. She eventually died of AIDS. I didn't really care too much for my mother. I was raised, like I said, by Henry Simons, a Jewish bookie. And I think it was 15. A car pulled up on a construction site one day. And the gentleman got out and he walked up to my father. And he said, it's time for him to know who he is. So your life's always been from the day you were born full of torment and misery? Yeah. It's been rough, man. But you know something, it's... I chose that path. It was a learning to me. Once, I mean, when I got in that car that day, my father, who raised me, had tears in his eyes. What did they say? They told him he's coming with us. Simple as that, he's coming with us. Now he needs to know who he is. And it started at 15. I would go to upstate New England, Maine, Vermont. They started with pistols, they started with rifles, learning how to shoot with ex-military guys. And then from there, it was back down to Boston. A lot of crowd-maga stuff. And basically, when I got older, I figured I was like, these guys just molded me like a potter does clay to become this perfect weapon like an associate, not an associate friend, a colleague, whatever the hell you want to call them now and we talk almost every day. He's a former mobster. And now he works for the prison system and stuff like that. And he's like, man, they molded the real-life John Wick. It was crazy. Who took you over here? Who was that? My uncle. How he went there? How he went there? James Whitey, Bulger, Stevie, Fleming. They were all uncles. I just call it. Everybody was Uncle Jim, Uncle Stevie, Uncle Kevin, Uncle Johnny. Everybody was an uncle. And you didn't know that life until that moment? Yeah, it started at 15. It started at 15. I mean, my mother bounced me around all around the country. Again, it's all detailed in the book. Like, she would shack up. We were in Florida when I think it was eight or nine. She'd be shackin' up with a Greek shipping magnet, Thomas Danasi. And at the same time, she was shackin' up with the chief of the Miami-Dade Police who was arrested and disgraced for corruption. Yeah, she was there. Why did the family wait 15 years to come and get you? I think they just waited for me to come of age. To be used, though? To be used. Like a soldier? To be molded as a soldier. And they took you away, like, for some training camp? Like military school? Not military school. Just putting me with different people to learn different things. What you thinkin' then? Were you just happy to have some sort of family around you? I was, um... Yes, because at that point I was eight or two and I had a tension that I didn't have for my mother. Everybody was waiting on me and it was just... It was crazy. It was crazy. What did you do after that, then? When you come back to Boston? How old? Um... Eighteen. Yeah. So you went away for three years? Yeah, three years. End of learning the family trade? Yeah. What were you doing after that? You know, you've done robberies and kidnappings. Kicking happens, attempted murders, bank robberies, extortion, racketeering. A lot of violence. All violence, yeah. Did you have any signs of violence on the way up to 15 years old? Or were you quite a... No, yeah. Up to 15, yeah. My mother used to beat me daily. Yeah. My mother would smack me and I'd say, what the fuck did you just do that for? She was, because you're going to fuck up at some point today and if I'm not around, let me just get it in now. But yeah, it was... Like I said, my mother, when she got bad on the drugs, she would entertain gentlemen a lot. And you're just a young kid, you know, six, seven, eight years old and you're listening to three guys pound your mother in the other room. I guess it does something to you. I saw my first murder at five. I was told to go sit on the front porch. And after my mother got done entertaining, a gentleman came out and he would always give me a dollar after he got done screwing my mother. And he was a drug dealer. He was a heroin dealer and gave me a dollar. Cadillac pulled up, got out, took my brother's shotgun, saw it off and blew his brains out while I was standing next to him. He was all over me. And he looked at me and he goes, what did you see, little man? And I said, nothing. I saw nothing. They're whole life. They're just fucking misery and violence and pain. It's a sad existence because there's so many kids like yourself. We've had that upbringing. It's not a humane thing to see. It's not normal to be getting beatings of parents. Listen, there's got to be some element of discipline, especially in this day and age, we've got a softened generation, but we're beating kids and telling them they're not good and seeing murders and seeing them being abused. That's child abuse for you. There's nobody there to protect you and feel safe. All kids ever want to do is feel loved. Even humans always want to do is feel loved. Sometimes when you go through a life of torment, even when you get love, you fucking push it away. That was one of my things until I met my wife. And I've been married several times before. My children, unfortunately, I went to prison when they were toddlers. They grew up without me. We've reunited now. So my whole life, I would not allow myself to love or care for anybody and I would not allow someone of me. It was very toxic. I just put a wall up by myself because I wouldn't allow people to hurt me. And if I love something, then you can hurt me by hurting them. So I just built this wall. When was your first robbery? Oh, Jesus Christ. Well, I'm eight years old. I remember beating a kid with a bat because I wanted his bike. So you had the violence in you anyway? You had that madness? We actually, when I finally got out, man, I was able to follow my passion for music and one of our songs that we just put out on Sony Records, Who Made Distribution is Rage. And it's some of the lyrics and it was the curse of violence lives in me. This is why these podcasts are so powerful because people could then understand you. And it's okay hearing people doing 20 odd years, 30 years for the crimes they've done but they don't understand the abuse they went through as a kid who's then molded them into being someone who hates the fucking world because they fear as if nobody loves them. I agree with that theory of it. I just, I found that growing up from 15 on everything changed when I came home. Everywhere I went, I could go in to get a coffee or go in for a dinner and they would say how they would run right to the table and there was a manager, the owners, whatever. I tried to pay the bill. Money's no good here. It's okay. And that becomes a drug in itself. It becomes addictive because now you have a different status. And for the longest time I thought oh, everybody respects me. I'm different than everybody. And as I got older, I figured out it's not respect. It was fear. It was fear, which is troubling because it's baggage I carry with me every day. My wife, Christ, I don't, most nights I don't go to bed. I stay on the couch with the dogs because I can't sleep at night. Too many nightmares. Bad. Too many nightmares, man. So after 18 then you come back home. What sort of violence were you getting involved with? Did you enjoy it because you were getting a sense of power and fake work from people? I, it was very alluring to me. The fast cars, the money, the women. What I thought was respect, which was in actuality fear. I thought it was cool. I mean, when you're 18 and everybody is looking at you in a different way and it's like if you're, if I'm walking down this side of the street, they are, they cross the street. It was different in Boston and New England at that time to sit down at the table with James Whitey Bulger. Even though he was a fucking rat and no one knew it and he got what he deserved. Karma got beat to death in prison. But to be around these people and raised by these people and molded by these people to be this tool, the boogeyman. That's what they said. I remember going to a meeting in New York. I had to go down and pick up some money and do something and deliver something. And I remember this old timer, old Italian guy. He literally, this was probably about 19 or 20. He looked at me and he goes, oh Christ, you really do exist. You are, oh, I thought you were an enigma, a ghost. Became a boogeyman. I didn't want to be in the limelight. I prefer the darkness, the shadows. There was a switch I used to turn off. There was a switch, an internal switch. And it was just business. But when something needed to be fixed, it fixed it. What sort of stuff were you doing? Stuff I'm not proud of. I'm stuck, I'm not proud of. What was James' way to bulge a leak? A narcissistic piece of shit. Nothing happened in Boston without Jimmy controlling it. It didn't matter with who. It didn't matter with who. Was he as ruthless as people say it? It was worse. It was a psychopath. So was Stephen Flaney, the rifleman. Complete psychopaths. Anybody that could, well, Stephen, sleeping with his stepdaughter who he raised, which is completely disgusting. And then for him to sit in the same room and watch whitey, strangle her to death. And then for him to pull the teeth out of her mouth and bury her in a basement, was a psychopath. This episode is sponsored by Fire Away Pizza, the fastest growing pizza company in the UK with over 150 stores. With their fresh quality ingredients and unique pizzas, they will have you coming back for more. Use code james20 for 20% off. That's james20 for 20% off. Why did you do that? Because she got hooked on drugs and they thought she might say something that she saw. Were you just getting told to do stuff for them? I would just get phone calls. Then I would just not ask questions. Like a robot? A machine. Yeah, a robotic machine. But my problem, whereas Jim Whitey, if he killed somebody, he took a nap afterwards and didn't worry about it. Well, someone was digging a hole. Me, I couldn't live with that. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror. I hated myself. So I crawled in a bottle. Drinking? I drank to be able to sleep. I would drink myself into an oblivion every night. And on the pain? Because alcohol suppresses depression and feelings? But it means it was the fucking next day? It allowed me to be able to live within my own skin because I hated myself. I don't know how many times drunk I've looked in the mirror and maybe to shave, brush my teeth in the morning and took that beat and then just shattered the mirror because I hated myself for the things that I was involved in. But Jim, Jim was very calculating. He kept everything very compartmentalized. There was a South Boston crew, then there was a Dorchester crew, then there was a South Shore crew and he never let any of them mix because if he did, he'd have to share the wealth around the board and he'd want that. So, everything south of the bridge, we kind of took care of. How powerful were they? They ran everything. For an example, I have someone that I consider a friend who's doing a triple life for you now. Obviously, he'll never come home from prison. He was disposing of a body, got caught disposing of the corpse. They didn't have enough evidence to charge him with murder. So, they caught, like I said, he was going to dump the body into the hole. So, he got 10 years for that. And after two years, a parole was bought for him. He got out in two years and David R. Clark. They called him Mr. Plug Ugly. So, there was a piece of work that had to be done in David's Irish. And the Italians, I mean, they got these weird fucking rules where you can't touch another main guy, which is all a crock of shit to begin with. Because they hold Kelly each other. And they fucking snitch fucking and then go to fucking the funeral and kiss him on the forehead. So, I'm going to fucking back. I'm going to fucking kiss him on the forehead. That's fucked up, fucked up. So, David was suspected, it wasn't proven, but he was suspected of killing two guys for a contract. Mikey Romano and Richie Devlin in Boston. He's Boston. Power struggle back then with Cadillac Salami and all that stuff. He was Iron Gadget, just a hit man, that's all. He was just doing his job. But he was Allen Perrole for disposing of a corpse. Went into Boston to kill these two guys. He cut a tire. So, a legend says, slice the car, the other guy's tire, he came out and he bent over to look at his tire. He came out of the night club and he said, the fuck, as soon as he bent over he shot him in the back of the head a couple of times. And then Richie Devlin heard the shots, came out and he got shot in the head. And he was driving home. He had a tail light out. He didn't realize it. Stayed trooper, pulled him over. Now, he's already out on parole for getting rid of a corpse. Allegedly just pulled a double murder, a mob hit. He got out of the freaking car and just started shooting. Killed the state trooper. In the process, he himself got shot a few times. But it's just some different Batman. But I mean, he was out, you could buy pearls. You could get out. You could get preferential treatment, Batman. We used to have a furlough program. I said, if I was doing natural life, after five years, I could go home on the weekends if I was a good boy. Just come back by much, 7 a.m. Monday. Come back there and take on Monday morning by 7 a.m. Why is that? It's the way New England works. It's the way Boston worked. I wonder if they were fucking killing each other if you're home in five years. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, everybody back then, 70s, 80s. Obviously, I was born in 1971. So I was an 80s child. He was still just like a fucking Wild West Batman. It was crazy. How many people were in the crew? My crew? Yeah. Let's just say about a half a dozen. Yeah. Lawyer? Tossworthy? Or did everybody turn in that as well? No one in our crew ever turned. All Irish? All Irish. That's where it goes on that? Yeah. You can love Irish. Love Irish, same as the Scottish. I had an IRA man on, John Crawley. Mm-hmm. He was doing business with it. Waitie Bulger, apparently he was shitting guns over, but... That was a ball of hell at Shipman. Yeah, but he'd get fucking caught. And he never knew who made the phone. Somebody made the phone call and stuck him in. Good guy, John. Really good guy. I thought it might have been Waitie. Could that have been a possibility or was he always a snitch? Oh, yeah, absolutely. And when everything came out about Waitie, he ratted on his first crew back in the 50s when he got sent to Alcatraz. So he had started ratting right out of the gate. Do you think older top boys are like that? That's why a lot of them say they're a prison? I would like to think there's a few honorable guys. Again, I'm an illegitimate bastard. I was the dark secret no one was supposed to know about because my uncle's brother was a very respected man, family. So I wasn't supposed to exist. He just knocked my mother up. He never ratted. How he went to never ratted. Raymond Patriaca, Sr., never ratted. Jerry and Julo never ratted. Other than that, I could think of they never ratted with all the original regime. How much money were you making back then? $60,000, $80,000 a week as a teenager. $60,000, $80,000 a week. Were you ever happy in that life? I thought I was. I thought I was. I really didn't. What's the worst thing you've seen involved in that life? Cheers. Obviously, we don't want to incriminate anybody, but obviously, things that you can talk about are things that people have been charged with. We'll talk about it since we're on the topic of fucking rats. Kevin, two weeks, weeks. He was just a whitey's gopher. You know, when he had to go dig up corpses and rebarium, different places. I've seen some pretty crazy stuff. Pretty crazy. I just don't want to incriminate myself or anybody else, but I've seen some pretty gruesome stuff. I mean, my life's online. Everybody knows, man. I think I've been involved in 26 separate prison stabbings. Because it's a different life, man. I just, unfortunately, sometimes I enjoy the violence. Whenever you're not here with my daughter, she said, Dad, my friend's in this and that, and it says this online, and it does this. And I said, listen, things you can't, don't ever ask me that. Do not ask me that. All I can tell you is your father's. I never heard anybody innocent. Some guy trying to pay his mortgage, put his kids through school, and put food on the table, because there was no honor in that. I never heard anyone innocent. But what we kind of specialized in, if you were a gangster, you were fair game. We shook down gangsters and said, when did you go to prison? What age? First time. Useful offender, I think. I had like a nine-month stint for beating somebody up at a club. It's 16 or something like that. What was that feeling? Inside? Well, it's different. Every time I go to prison, everyone knows you're coming. So you sit at a certain table with people, and you're given respect. I don't mind being locked up. That in itself is sad. Is that because you feel safe, and other people are safe that you're not? Because you didn't like hurting people, but you've done it anyway? It got to a point as a good older. There was no enjoyment in it anymore. There was no enjoyment in it. It was just a necessity. It's like if we grew up together, played fucking kick the can or stick ball, or rode up bikes together in the neighborhood, and later in life, you did something. Whatever the problem was, it had to be fixed. It's haunting and troubling when you look at somebody and you grew up with them. And now they're on their knees, pissing themselves, some of them shit themselves, crying to God, begging, crying for their mother. And it's just like, you know, hey, man, you brought this on yourself, man. You knew the rules. Whereas they went a whole gang for people they don't know. Fuck it, it was hell on earth, is what it was. The Irish mob war of Boston was the bloodiest mob war in American history. 60 bodies were left laying on the streets during the war. Another 60 or 90 never. They didn't find them. People were getting clipped left and right. Were they connected to, how was the connection with the five families in New York? Were they in contact, or did everybody just do their own thing? Um, no. There was, uh, four stretching tendrils, let's say. They use a fret because of how violent these were. To these families. Because you know yourself, someone who's roofless and making too much noise and bringing too much heat, they become a fret and end up getting killed off. But we use a fret too, these five families because of their attention that you were bringing. Actually, you know something, you on my phone? Show yourself the phone. Yeah, yeah. Oh, we showed that on camera. What did you say? Are you friends? Yeah. It's always, um, see, the Irish, we just did work. We didn't discriminate. You know her, you know, well, except for fucking Jimmy, Oidy, fucking. You never heard a woman. You never heard a child. And you don't go after people's family that are innocent. You just don't do that. There's no one around there. See, when, when did you know that he was a proper nutcase? Did you always know or when did you start to waking up to it that something wasn't right? Mid-twenties. Mid-twenties. There was an argument between I was giving a condominium in the South Shore and then Jim was a Louis, Louisbury Square, Whitey bought the condo directly next door to me. And, um, I remember my uncle showed up. They get into a very heated conversation and he made it clear to Whitey. He said, the kid's off limits. He doesn't give you anything. There's no tribute. There's no kick up. Stay the fuck away from him. And then he said to me, he goes, you're going to be moving. I don't want you near him. Not this close. And at that point, you know, the fucking antennas went up. I'm going to make somethings off with this fucking guy. Was it going to kill you? I don't know. To be honest with you, I don't know. But there was just, you know, there's always, um, lots of stories about when Whitey, um, was down at the L Street bath house in South Boston. Where, um, he... It's a pedophile, I guess. That's what they call it now. Where you could sleep with young girls. Um, we don't know. We do know for a fact. Um, there was a famous actor, Sal Menino. Anyways, someone walked in at a bar in downtown Boston and, uh, Whitey was fucking the guy in the ass. Yeah. It was crazy. So he ended up in the run for 16 years? 16 years, yeah. And then he got beaten to death in prison? And he lasted 20, well, 21 hours. Why is that? Karma. I think so. Did he have a lot of hats out in his life? Um, we... When he got arrested in, uh, 2011, his last ditch effort was to try and keep Catherine out of jail. His girlfriend, Catherine Gray. And, um, we ended up being able to look at some of, um, internal official reports where he implicated myself and other people in the Isabella Gardner Museum heist as being the masterminds and as murdering 15 people to keep it unsolved all these years. Yeah. Largest heist in the history of the world. A billion dollars. What was that? How much get recovered? Nothing. How many people did they say they were involved? Well, dead is what they said. No one's ever been arrested, nothing's been recovered. What was that? What was it? What, get stole? 13 items. Most notably was Rembrandt's only seascape, storming the Sea of the Gambley. Where did they get stole from? The Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum in Boston. One billion pounds worth of stolen goods? Yeah, one billion dollars, yeah. That's tasty. It's literally still to this day the largest heist in the history of the world. And they says the Winter Halt Gang was involved? Some people did. You did bring me a gift, I hope it's fucking one of them. You have to read the book. I believe it's chapter nine. And that chapter is already being optioned for a movie. I partnered with Greg Donis through my other business partner. I just asked him one day, I'm like, what's this fucking weird blonde-headed guy that keeps showing up to our fucking concerts, man? I hope he's not winning, because again, we had the Andy Dick fucking. What's it? The Andy Dick fucking is the situation. Alan L.A. I'm fine. Yeah, so anyways, Greg Donis, Donis Films, his new documentary is Blood Lies and Murder. So, yeah, he's got, we're on Peacock now with that. And that was with Rod Eglet, former head of the FBI, who just gave me a great review on my book. And Thomas Lan, who was the O.J. Simpson co-lead detective on the O.J. Simpson case. So we got a good relationship with those guys. They're now retired. So Greg and I have partnered with Blackstone Publishing, my publishing company. We're doing four one-hour docuseries episodes. And Blackstone is doing an option and an adaption for, I think, six seasons of a scripted series off my book. And then we'll follow up at the end with a prequel film that takes it back to the 60s. One way uncle founded The Irish Mom, went to Hill Gang, and then we'll end it in 71 with my birth. Almost like the many saints of Newark, like they did with the Speranos. So when did you get your big sentence? What year? Which one? Did you not get 21 years or 24? No, no, I was at home. At and out. Acumenal of? Yeah. What was your biggest sentence? Seven or ten, I think. So what was that for? Kidnapping, attempted murder, and something else. What was prison like for you? I don't mind prison. Were you taking drinking drugs on there? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Not drugs. I just... Making a hooch? No, no. Have you ever seen the Poland Springs, like one gallon water bottles? I had a guard that used to fill it with absolute vodka for me. I'm bringing it for 500 bucks a pop. We made a lot of money on... this last sense of the Suboxons, the strips they sell. We could get a bottle of 90. The guards would bring it in. I'd give them $2,000 to bring in the bottle. And we would cut, you know, the guys would cut the strips up into 16s, 30 seconds, halves, quarters, whatever. Anyways, we were knocking down, I don't know, $20,000 a month, $25,000 a month, prison off that? What prisons we in? OCCC, SECC, Concord, Walpole, Szuzeberanowski. What was the worst? Szuzeberanowski. Why? Violence. It's the only level six maximum security prison in the Commonwealth now. How protected were you as in prison by being involved in the Irish mob? They just had a lot of good contacts. A lot of good contacts. Yeah, I never had a problem. And a lot of violence then in prison? Yeah, it's a different element. It's a food chain and there's a hierarchy. If you and I were a prison, right? I'd beat you up. I have a fear that you're going to, a concern that you're going to retaliate against me. Or if you beat me up, you're going to have that same concern. So if it gets to the point of having to put hands on somebody, my mentality always was like, let's just skip the foreplay and fucking just bury a piece of steel in you and be done with it. See, you were in prison, Sean. Did you ever think about changing your life and walking away or was it just too hard? Or were you just so caught up in that life where you didn't ever see a get out? Um, my last incarceration, say I got out, what, three and a half years ago? I'm only been out three and a half years. Um, I decided then that I wanted to change that I had given half of my life to the family in the streets. And I just wanted to live my own life where I was left a bit. And when I got out, I met with a lot of people and I said, I don't want this. I don't owe you guys nothing. You don't owe me anything. So take that bag of fucking money back. I don't want it. I don't want to be looked at as the undisputed, unopposed, aro-fucking-thrown. Because it's something I don't want. I just want to be left alone. And if there's going to be a problem with that, let's table it right now. How did you get out of that life? I just told him I'm done. You become a threat though because of the information that you have as well. No, I think my federal lawyer, Kevin Selvazia, said it best while we were filming a reality show last year. The director asked a question and my lawyer chuckled. And he said, everybody's dead. He has nothing to worry about anymore. They're all dead. Three men can keep a secret. If two are dead. Is that a risk? For you to be seeing everybody dead was that easier than to make it the decision? He feels if you wouldn't have got out if the top boys were still living. Yeah, I honestly can't even say I looked at it like that. I just... I made up my mind. There were some younger individuals that were using the name and those are some of the people I met with. I said, listen, I've never done time with you and I've never done a fucking crime with you. Stop riding the coattails. Don't use the fucking name anymore. Call yourself whatever the fuck you want. But not that. That thing has ran its fucking course. It's over. Whatever happened to your uncle? Died at 91. A free man. At 91, yeah. When did it pass? Oh, it's been, uh, going on four years now. I saw the moment. Can't give a fuck. Because at that point, you know, I'm in my late 40s and I already knew what time it was. You guys used me. You used me to do the shit day. You wanted to be distanced from. You made your little perfect fucking weapon, your little machine. You know, I thought it was, you know, I thought, uh, when the older guys, you know, it was like a running joke. If they had somebody that owed money or something that needed to be addressed, they said, don't, don't, don't make us send the kid. Did you ever think about killing them? Yeah, that's funny to say that. Um, I had, we just got an email from, uh, Rod Agler, former head of the FBI, and he was telling Greg Donis, um, the, uh, documentary series, he goes, I already know for a fact, if Sean had found Whitey, he would have killed him. And Greg asked me, he goes, is that true, Sean? I said, yeah, I would have cut his fucking head off. Did anybody know where he was? No, no one knew where the fuck he was. Yeah. He was a fucking nutcase, man. He was? Yeah, he was a nutcase. So, see, because your uncle passed, was that one of the reasons why you got out as well? Yeah, because, uh, I, I didn't, yeah, absolutely. I didn't know anybody, anything. And I didn't want, uh, the passing of the torch, the proverbial torch. I didn't give a fuck. I mean, but you wouldn't, you wouldn't, it's, it's pretty much, uh, Rod is from LA, so, when you walk around with certain tattoos in, in street, in the prison, people know exactly who you are and what you're about, tattoos. It's as simple as that. That's, that's your, uh, resume. So to say. You know, I did walk around, man, murder, pain, teardrops. Teardrops, does that represent killings? But the person's done or is that just something? It could be, you're not going to say, yes, do you know what I mean? You're not going to say, you're not going to say, you know what I mean? Um, there's actually, uh, there's actually a thing they have when you go into prison. Um, about teardrops, about all your tattoos. Uh, they say that, um, this is just them, not me. They say that if you have a red teardrop, each one represents five murders. I'm just looking to see if you've got any red ones. How's three? Three red ones, 15. The cameras and all the police officers watching. Is that, is that what your life was then, showing misery and pain? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. How is it now? Is it still the same? Because the mind's a powerful tool. It fucking can play tricks on us, man. And it's hard to overcome when you see so much destruction and misery and torture in your life. I, I spent the last several years surrounding myself with good people, honest, hard-working souls, that have nothing to do with any kind of crime, and just, um, rebuilding my relationship, um, with my daughter and my granddaughter, who terrorizes our house, um, and focusing on, um, ironically my music, which is mob rock records. Uh, I spent a lot of time in L.A. with, uh, Ron. And when I'm not in L.A., um, I will lay in bed around the couch with my dogs and with my wife, and I reflect. Um, every year, like a soldier, his survivor's guilt. I find myself doing that a lot, taking stock of my life. I'm like, why the fuck am I still fucking here? Why? Why am I here? I've been shot four times, stabbed six times. Why am I still here and why is he not? Why do you think you're here? I'd like to think that it's to pay something forward. Um, there was a situation, uh, two years ago, I think. Two years ago. I was walking my dog, and I was in downtown Worcester. And I heard a voice call my name out. A young kid, probably about 16, maybe 17 years old. And I'm looking at the kid, and I'm like, Goddamn. I don't know this kid. He's too young. To ever, uh, have been involved with me. And then my mind said, fuck, maybe I did something to his father or an uncle or something, fuck. And he came running up, and I'm like, oh, maybe he just wants to fucking ask me for a couple bucks or a cigarette because I just smoke cigarettes back then. And he said, tune. You're that mobster. You shot all these people and did all this shit. That's so fucking cool. I went on and told my wife. I said, I feel physically sick. I want to vomit right now because that's what he was looking up to me for. It was a very, very hard moment for me. I literally wanted to vomit. That's what all these gangster films and that do as well. Godfather, Goodfellows, Scarface. I used to watch Scarface and fucking love him. I fucking love Scarface. I used to sit and get fucking high on coke and watch that back near there. But the thing is, right, there's never, I never took, I never derived any amount of pleasure out of hurting another human being. I didn't get off on it. It wasn't a power thing for me. It was just, this has to be done. For who? For whatever reason. If it was a job, it had to be done. I didn't ask questions. I didn't care. I was the machine. He blocked out all your emotions and become cold with the world? Unfortunately, yes. Yeah. How do you then learn to trust him again? What age are you now, Sean? 52. So how do you learn to trust him through that life and never feeling good enough and violent and being cold? It's an ongoing process for me to learn to love, to be loved because it was always a weakness to me. If I showed empathy or emotions to people I thought I was weak and that's something that could have been exploited. Now, again, it's just an ongoing process. I'm not involved with anybody that has anything to do with crime now. Do you have a worry that you could go back? Make a mistake? Yes. I just had this conversation in an interview with a reporter and they asked me, would you ever hurt anybody again? I said, honestly, I can't answer that question because if you hurt, if someone were to hurt my family or someone I loved, a friend, I would just lose it. When are you at your weakest to think? When are you at your saddest? I open my eyes every day. When I open my eyes. When was the last time you cried? Yesterday. Last night, but actually this morning. This morning. Yeah, but that's a good thing. As well. Yeah, because it lets me know that I'm not a monster. I'm becoming a man. Showing emotion? Yeah. We were raised to show emotion as a weakness but showing emotion as a strength? I'm realizing that now. I mean, last night got a little hectic and we were at a function with the mayor of Atlantic City and there were thousands of people there. Music was just insanely loud and a lot of people were coming up and asking to take photos with us and I had probably too many cocktails and I was literally telling Roland, I was telling Rob Schwartz and everybody. I'm like, why the fuck am I here, dude? I can't do this. There's thousands of people here. They're bumping into me and not saying excuse me. I mean, if I did my history or my due diligence, right, you'd be locked up, right? You know what happens in the joint if you bump into somebody and you don't acknowledge it and say, hey, pardon me, I'm sorry. I had thousands of people, just to see a people last night and I kind of was losing it and I said, get me the fuck out of here right now, dude. I can't do this because people were coming up and just complete strangers grabbing my wife by her shoulders to take pictures with us and I said, I feel like I'm getting the fuck out of here right now. Seriously. So last night, yeah. What's the worst thing about that life of Crane? At the next generation, Caesar is a badge of honor because I think that what a lot of people do not realize and which I just recently realized is that mankind's greatest stock is our youth because that's how we continue. When I'm dead, I'm gone. What are we showing? What examples are we setting for tomorrow's adults? What are we doing? We're shot, yeah. Guy with a gun? Yeah, did you know? So it was? Was it four separate teams? Or are the ones that did four shots? Four separate teams. I get shot in the fucking head. Thank God this idiot watched too many fucking TV shows and turned the gun sideways and it knocked me to fuck out and cracked my fucking skull. But I left the hospital and the reporters are like, Sean, who shot you? I go, Guy with a gun. I said that question, Sean, but do you ever wish that bullet would you? I woke up one of my ex-wives one night and she stopped by because I lived with anybody. Even though I was married, I never lived with anybody until I lived with Charlene. I always kept a separate residence. She stopped by. She was pregnant and she went out on the back porch to smoke a cigarette. I left my door open and he's Boston. I woke up to an individual. I was in bed next to her and she was about six months pregnant at the time. I woke up to an individual burying a 32 inch bayonet into my neck. Should I reach through the neck? Yeah. To the head and the neck? Stabbed me twice. Stabbed me twice. I fought. I fought out of bed. Destroyed the bedroom. threw him down the stairs. So I had a 32 inch bayonet type knife. And he landed at the bottom and started to cut his throat. He was 16 years old. I was a kid. It was his initiation into a gang. So that could put a bullet in your neck. Stabbed you twice just to get into a gang? Making his bones, I guess they said. I didn't cut. I started to cut his neck. But when I saw he was just a kid. I stuffed my fingers into the hole. Two fingers into the hole. Walked across the street. Laid up against the wall. Shed up against the wall. Purchased myself up against the wall. There was a little bodega across the street. The owners came out and they had towels and they were trying to stop the other hole from bleeding. And I was just like, what? Shit, man. What a fucking way to go. Anybody got a cigarette? Why did you become the target? I guess that was a reputation. That's reputation. It's unfortunate. And to go, honey, what was it? Which chase was it last year? My son. Chase. I got a call from my ex. She said, Chase. Chase has been arrested. 16 years old. So I knew he's been arrested. And then she said, they're going to let him call you from the police department. I said, right, I hung up. A few minutes later, I got a call. Talked to a lieutenant or captain first. I said, why is my son arrested? Well, he's the prime suspect in a serious crime. So what are you talking about? He said, well, he's under arrest for murder. So I got a phone with him. I said, don't say anything. Wait till the lawyer gets there. What the fuck were you thinking if you were involved in this shit? He said, I just want to be like you. Do you believe in yourself? Absolutely. He spent his entire life visiting me and me in prison. What's happening? Are they still in? They didn't have enough evidence to charge him. He got released. I took care of him for 90 days, 120 days, whatever it was. He got released. I got another phone call from my ex. Chase is in the hospital. What's wrong now? I don't know. What's wrong now? I just got out two days ago. Someone tried to kill him. My wife and I, I begged him before all this happened. I said, just come live with us. Go back to school whatever you want. Just come live with us. The last time I cried was just two minutes ago now. Yeah, but it's a good thing. You're showing emotion. You're showing strength. You're showing that the life of crime is no fucking way for anybody in this life. What it does is I spend every waking moment trying to make a living of men's for the chaos and pain I cause because there's no such thing as a victimless crime. You could be the biggest asshole in the fucking world. But somebody fucking loves you. Whether it's your children, your wife, your mother, your sister, your brother, your aunt, your uncle. So if I do something to you I have affected, it's a ripple effect. There is no such thing as a victimless crime. It's taken me a lot of years to fucking figure that out, man. What's the worst day in your life? I know you've had a lot of pain, a lot of struggle, but is that one of the worst? That's one of the worst and I guess I'll not I guess I again, I tried last year. I got into a disagreement with my wife and she locked the doors in the house. I'll see what the fuck's going on here. This is my house. The bottom door came off. The top door came off. The bedroom door came off. And I was like, please don't lock doors in my house and I just need to grab some clothes. And I went to an Airbnb with a mutual friend of ours. That was probably because that night I had to be rushed to the hospital by a friend because I had a heart attack because I couldn't believe what I just did. And the same thing as when I wrote the book one of the most uplifting moments is my wife told me she didn't care what was in the book she'd always loved the man she met not the person I was before. I have my greatest days now are watching our two-year-old what I call my two-year-old terrorist granddaughter run around the house just get into whatever she wants to get into and watching my wife play with her and the dogs and just my friends Ron's daughter she graduated fifth grade last year flew to LA just to go to her graduation and stuff like that you appreciate things now things that I never appreciated before. The smaller things that are there that last forever, the memories of the smaller things that you think are small but are so great like family time spending time with family try to do the right thing if you accept your message is love can you accept it if never having love your whole life take love can you accept it? I know the day I got married it's one of the happiest days of my life to watch my wife walk down the stairs with her father escorting her it was a very beautiful day I have something to live for now before I had none to live for I didn't give a fuck I had a reputation to uphold I was the ghost I was the boogeyman I was the guy that had guys fucking thinking twice before they put their key in their door a squirrel runs through the bushes they're jerking they're jumbling the key because the fuck do you ever feel good enough? in what aspect? life to be here have someone love you I do question that everyday why am I blessed the way I am why does my daughter tell me she loves me after I missed her entire life because I was in prison why does my wife put up with my nonsense why does my friends jump on planes and fly across the country to hang out with me on whims why does he let me around his children because I mean it's you know in theory I guess I was a monster I used to be a monster but it's a journey back to I'm learning how to become a human being again but it's a daily job did you ever get therapy or speak to someone? oh yeah I'm shrink this is like a fucking therapy session you end up getting back to the life after this today you can ask my wife that was quite an interesting day because they were actually filming for a reality show this guy actually thought he was hypnotizing me and I was going along with it he thought he had me hypnotized and then he asked I don't know what the hell the question was right? I said because my mother tried to kill me when I was a child and he was like right? I'm like dude I'm fucking with you man I'm fucking with you and everybody in the room started laughing at me he was trying to hypnotize me but I don't know man I think therapy is something that has to start internally it's like taking a measure pros and cons weighing you know the sins against the goodness I can't take back the past I was sitting here doing this interview right now if I rip a fucking fart and it stinks we all know I just farted I can't stuff it back up my ass so I can't change what I did in the past all I can do is strive to be better every day going forward where do you go forward? where do I go forward? I just focus on my family and friends and I focus on the business ventures that I'm involved in I try to set a good example I guess my my quest is to change my legacy because when I'm dead and gone whether it's 20 years to 30 years and I'm just a fucking pile of bones in some box right? I don't want someone coming up to my children or my grandchildren and saying oh he was such a fucking monster or he was this and he was that I want to change my legacy I want them I want to remember for the good shit that I tried to do how do you protect your grandkids from seeing that life because people want to be like their father or their grandparents if they see them at mad shit is that a concern as well because they won't fall on the footsteps of you? My granddaughter she sees nothing but love that's all she sees at two years old she's you know it's she's got her uncle rotten she goes we just took her to Fenway to one of these concerts and we just show her nothing but love and tenderness but I don't let her get away with the stuff that her mom does I guess I'm the heavy hand in the house like when she throws temper tantrums and fits or smacks her mom and says no I want my nini you know it's you know my daughter can't give her a bath because no nini my daughter can't change her diaper because it's got to be nini but you know it's funny in a way yeah it's funny in a way because I'll come in and I'll say don't you do that and I'll take the iPad or whatever the hell she's got playing with watching her shows on I'll take that away I'm like did you just throw something give me that and then all of a sudden she breaks down into the tears and it's like my wife picks her up because she runs right the nini but I'm like she has to know there's right and wrong you know she can't throw stuff like she threw a freaking handful of something immediately I was like just what oh no no no no no we're doing a timeout right now what's your biggest regret in life Sean getting into crime getting into crime you ever question you the cars life is life has dealt you you ever question why me going through all that misery as a kid constantly constantly but I don't fall into the woes me yeah you don't want to be a victim fuck that shit but do you question it because I don't have you people from all around the world I understand people very well and it's just to give people an understanding of you, your life, your tournament you try to do the right things, try to be a better father try to be a better grandfather try to be a better husband, a better friend because like you said people think we're a monster I can see you're a fucking good guy you talk about why do people get on airplanes they come and see you because I see a heart of gold I just see a kid who was confused and raised in a fucking life of madness where it became normal even though he didn't want to do it he felt pressured and loyal in it enough that he did do it, he feel love you've done the wrong things to get love don't try to do the right things well exactly I am doing the right things and I cherish everyone that is what I consider in my inner circle family right now I cherish them, they mean everything to me they are my world who was it when you heard the way you get murdered how was the feeling when you heard the way you get murdered when why did you get murdered I got a phone call from my federal lawyer and he said please fucking tell me you haven't taken any phone calls from those guys or sent them letters or anything I said no I haven't was that his main concern yes so see when your uncle passed away could you have been caught boy could you have been the boss were you next in line I was the unopposed uncontested heir to the throne and you gave that up I walked away from it when I got out of when I got out of my last prison I went to a meeting and there was literally a brown shopping bag full of money million dollars or something like that and I said I don't want it I literally spent two weeks sleeping on my friend's couch because I didn't know what to do I didn't know a place I just was like okay I'm not going back to that life and I had a friend that was not doing anything wrong and he said you can crash on my couch dude I only have one bedroom and my girl already is pissed but you can crash on my couch and after a few weeks my attorneys called me up and said hey come down to my office and I went down and they said you're serious about walking away aren't you I said I'm dead serious about it and they said alright we're gonna get you a condo here's some money don't worry about it and then I met my wife and I got a dog too what dog I got I got the most fucked up dog in the world like fuck you listen I got the most fucked up dog in the world there was a dog in a shelter and he was scheduled to be euthanized because he was too vicious and bite histories and called up and I looked at the picture I said fuck I go down and I give the shelter a sizable donation and I said let me work with that dog they said he's being on help he's too far gone I said just let me try so they had to drag him out and first thing I did is I went to pat his side he tore my fucking hand open gave me 17 stitches I said what the fuck he said that's why he's being put to sleep that's why we're going to euthanize him I didn't realize he was deaf he didn't tell me that and I said no he's just gonna have to make eye contact with him so it was a process for my wife and I had to finally get him I used to go to the shelter for about an hour to two hours every day and bring him treats and I would just sit out back in this enclosed area with him gaining his trust after a few months they let us foster him I had to get a $100,000 liability insurance policy on him and after a year they let us adopt him he's a 160 pound American bull lug his name's Loki he's fucking Loki he's just a weirdo man we have a rule in our home if you come into our home and everybody knows don't touch him don't touch him it's hard when you have an animal it's not a normal dog if you know what I mean you can't pet him you can't snuggle with him you can't do anything it's all on his terms when he wants to be petted he will come up like every morning he's gotta go to my wife scratch his head scratch his back scratch his butt and then he walks away or rolling when Rotten's here he'll jump up in bed with him sleep with him and guard him don't touch him do you see yourself in a dog? yeah everybody online was like what the fuck you and your dog look exactly alike honey do you have a picture of Loki? we have a standing rule in our house I tell everybody do not touch him even if he comes up and rubs against your leg do not touch him you will get bit but if he's overly aggressive to you on more than two occasions you can't come back to my house because there's something wrong with you and he senses something I don't how do you see your future? do you see good things? positivity? lots of love? laughter? I see a lot of love a lot of laughter this is like I said I've been out three and a half years now I just fucking had a fucking whim I've always loved music it was my passion but I didn't want to work with anybody Rob Schwartz gave I started my own label Rob Schwartz was the only one that would give me a distribution deal through Sony the Orchard everybody else was like that's a fucking mobster no one would even entertain it Rob said you know something I see something I see something there so it's just two years in a row now two years in a row we've been ourselves and other artists on our label are submitted for Grammy nominations and we have fun doing what we do it's like now I'm able to ask that's my baby for my sister she's good to tell me how they can release I've got old Layla that is my baby right there and then I got my way for I got the shit under the stick is what happened I own a construction company as well my buddy who runs part of the business brings this stupid little fucking dog to work one day I'm like the fuck is that he goes he's my new puppy so the dog's running around and I'm on a remodeled job and I stop him to check on the guys and I'm like hey get the dog he's chewing on a fucking extension cord he's gonna fucking electrocute himself he's gonna fucking die he's just that fuck you want me to do with him I go let me call Charlie maybe she'll babysit the fucking dog today took the dog home that was it next to you know I'm buying the dog off him he shows me the pictures I'm like okay the father's 100 plus pound German shepherd the mother's a 60 plus pound fucking pit bull I'm like okay I don't know what's gonna happen with Loki because one of the things they told me you can't have Loki our American bulldog around other animals I'm like hey we gotta get a crate so we get the fucking goddamn crate all set up and everything everywhere she goes my wife never carries a purse ever, never all of a sudden she's got a fucking purse the mother fucking dog is in the fucking purse right the dogs are going grocery shopping it's in the cart with her I'm like you know he's not gonna be that little forever needless to say I gotta get the shit into the stick the fucking dogs are run I told Polly a hundred times you owe me my money bag dude because now I've got this thing that should be a shepherd pit bull that looks like a coyote mixed with a greyhound that is fucking needs to be on riddling because he bounces off the walls all fucking day 50 pounds I'm like what the fuck but that's diesel dogs are the best thing in the planet though dogs are fucking it's another love man it's a loyal a um I tell everybody I'll choose my dog over a human being it's unconditional love the dead animal does not know how to judge you or hate you it's an unconditional love they're like a child you have to care for them you have to feed them because unless they're wild they can't fend for themselves for anybody watching Sean that's wanting to get involved in a life of crime what advice would you have for them don't do not it's a life of misery it's an everlasting agony it's something you can never escape because you can do a million good things in life okay a million good things do one bad thing and that is what you'll fucking be remembered for is that one bad thing fuck a million good things is that one bad thing someone will always bring that up so for anybody is going through struggle, going through torment don't feel as if they're good enough have been violent in the past want to make changes again what advice would you have for them baby steps set goals work towards those goals you know when I originally a few years ago wanted to change my life and my legacy I would wake up fucking first thing I did is hit my fucking knees and I'd ask God please don't let me hurt someone today please this is baby steps I just don't want to hurt anybody I don't have any reservations of hurting anyone I'm the most laid back fucking guy you'll ever meet man I'm happy to just fucking laying around and fucking going on tour doing our shows and helping people just I want a journey it's like it's an incredible journey back to humanity because for so many years I lost touch of humanity how was it right in your book one of the most fucking painful fucking things I ever did I saw because I had to re reflect on situations from my childhood till present and I had to tear off a lot of fucking scars and scabs and things that I really didn't know I had buried deep inside myself and I had to relive every one of those moments and that's when I started drinking again was it brought back over brought back all of those like a torrential fucking flood I had to relive all of those fucking instances throughout my life and I really never I suppressed them I buried them inside me and emotionally I just I forgot about them all the faces all the screams all the crimes but they have to sit there and open that box that I buried so deep inside me again it was nights I just literally say why am I fucking doing this what the fuck am I thinking why the fuck am I actually doing this man but as it progressed over the months I said okay there's a redemption story here maybe someone will learn something from this will learn from my mistakes before you know possibly committing your own maybe somebody will learn something and say what the fuck okay that shit's crazy oh shit wait a second whoa because everybody's a god damn fucking wants to be a gangster wants to be a thug until the fucking bracelets go on until the bracelets go on all of a sudden what do you want to know yeah they're on the stand they become a professional witness why do you think there's so many snatchies I don't think there's any fucking integrity anymore I won't say his name because we just and he's all over the place we just optioned his book Greg and I and they called me I had a zoom meeting with the guy and I go what what aren't you a fucking rat you're a rat dude you rat it out you rat it out all of your fucking co-defendant fuck you man I'm fucking doing a documentary on you what are you fucking stupid they're like Sean you can't look at it like that and I'm like I just fucking flat out told me that he didn't want to do 23 fucking years or 26 fucking years gave up everybody to do 13 they're like he didn't kill anybody said I don't give a fuck he got on the stand raised his fucking hand and pointed his fucking finger fuck off it took a lot of soul searching for me to say you know something or whatever dude whatever if you want to do a documentary on it whatever it's an interesting fucking story whatever I guess we'll fucking do it see me again over your book Sean and you blocked everything out for so long see me you start to get over the things and the violence that you caused on other people you remember the screams the things that people die in robberies is your conscience then come to the forefront and you start realizing what you actually done yes it's a nightmare generally people think you have a nightmare right cause you go to sleep I have waking nightmares cause I have these thoughts all day long and it's weird triggers I can see somebody that looks like somebody similar and it's just like a fucking firecracker going off of my head I relive that moment right then you have a lot of nightmares yeah well yeah it's uh it's your bookstore Barnes & Nobles it was actually uh my uh my publishing company Blackstone Publishing Brendan DeNene called me up and he said hey we're being inundated we're actually gonna put this on pre-sale I think uh six months early I know I got the this thing I know it's translated now it's gonna be translated into 20 languages I got something from Japan the other day I was like I can't fucking read this shit I was like fucking hieroglyphics and they're like Sean it's a real good thing I said okay who's the most dangerous man you've ever been in a company of myself myself because I was scared myself because I didn't know what I was I didn't know how to turn that switch off sometimes if you haven't done it to literally you know put someone you know tie them in a fucking chair and put their hands flat on a table and pound nails to their hand and then cut their fingers off and cauterize that with a blowtorch a little portable torch because I just needed to know what the fuck information you had so it smells that you'll never forget you stabbed somebody in prison how long were you locked up for? I've been up and twice why are you always young offenders and then okay so I don't know and I don't want to know but when you bury a piece of steel in someone and you feel the bones crunching and that little those things you don't forget pop yeah you don't forget that it's very intimate well but the beaten torture guys I stuffed it those are tattoos on the soul you think you're a tortured soul? yes yeah I'm not a big young rock but about the banjering as well where can people get involved because the UK audience is a massive podcast in the UK so this podcast is going to do millions of views and downloads you know that don't you absolutely not I just know AJ asked me to do it and I said no problem yeah this is the biggest in the UK so this is fucking massive this whole book sales everything this is will be next level I didn't even actually know Drew Shardlow was from the UK I thought she was actually doing the insider and all of a sudden I'm like oh you're from England too she goes no I'm in England I was like oh okay I don't know man it's all new to me you know what I mean how is it speaking out though how do you feel speaking out do you ever feel partly it's such a weird environment where because it's changed days everybody's fucking speaking out but you know it's funny as I laugh and I say it in jest it's like you know here my wife and I just got a six thousand square foot mansion we live in six fucking something acres out in the middle of the fucking mountains now driving fancy cars and just living our life and you know I say it in jest I'm like who said crime doesn't fucking pay but I do when I sit by myself in my office like I had one of the greatest conversations of that in recent hit in recent memory I sat with Angelo who's been around the world the lead singer the man the myth from fishbone and I have not I have not sat and had an intellectual in soul searching conversation like I did with him like I just looked like oh fuck the goddamn sun's coming up man it was just he and I one on one sitting in my home office just reflecting on my life and his life and he started reading his copy of my book and he was like get the fuck out of here he was like this is heavy shit um I just I don't know man it's I'm blessed to be alive I'm blessed to have friends the relationships and the opportunities that I have almost fucking famous fucking drummers in the fucking world he didn't have to fuck with me but he's become my brother yeah man test human as pink hair don't care man he's played with those are your boys you're left with now give them a shout out oh give me a shout out what do you want me to do oh Rod and Rowan Rod and Rowan King of Emo Angelo Moore who was standing in the camera so you'll probably see him lingering if you weren't going to podcast hey listen have you ever seen fishbone live that's from man in the world he founded that band in 1979 he founded his man why is he out here you know why because my wife and I I guess adopted a young man from Jamaica to give him a shot at life because of the neighborhood he came from he said I don't want to become a statistic there's two gangs in my neighborhood they're going to force me to join one or the other I don't want to be the next young black man that dies I'm not a thug I don't have a criminal record fuck it I can't save everyone but he you know he's been with us for years now phenomenal artist I called Angelo up called Rowan up they were on a plane took him to the studio I'm like here this is how you get co-signed as the magic happens I mean I'm a little hard on him in the studio that's your case John yeah he said yeah he was overwhelmed he only came down and said hey you better go talk to Junior I went up there and he was sitting in there rocking back and forth with his arms around his knees I said what the fuck are you doing he said uh-uh this is way beyond my uh-uh man no listen motherfucker these guys just flew from fucking L.A don't you dare tell me that you can't write your fucking lyrics because I'm not gonna fucking write them for you write the fucking song and I was laughing with these guys about it and it reminded me of full metal jacket you know what I mean why is there a jelly donut in your fucking foot lock so Angelo said to me he said Sean why don't you go out and let me speak to him and next thing you know I heard him in the recording it's gonna make him strive yeah man yeah absolutely it's uh it's fine yeah out your life now Sean seeming to start trying to do the right things and try to live an honest life you then become a target is that totally done with your life could be in danger oh no because I think anybody that I have a problem with is dead 100% dead you know but it's once you start living that life I don't like fucking being because I spent so many years being in the shadows being the ghost and striving for that enigma then now it sucks like last night when I said guys get me the fuck out of here I don't like when people come running up and like can we have a fucking thought like I want to pick up dinner like we took rolling he had an idea for one of his solo songs yesterday and I told him I said don't worry about it I picked up the phone I called schwozzy next thing you know I said all right I got you a studio don't worry about it we walked in there with Meg Taylor Swiss producer Leanne Rimes producer I said I told you I got you a producer and in the end I said what I owe you he said I'm not a fucking thing let me just keep working with your label and your artists he said it'll all come out don't worry about it so let me pay you dude we've been here but he said no good but I don't like I don't see myself as famous it's more infamous that bothers me I'm just not accustomed to that yet we went to pick up fucking dinner for everybody he took a while because it was a big order and I'm going to get the bags and the lady comes out she goes I hate to bother you but we called the owner can we just take a picture with you real quick I said fuck me man I'm not used to that yet this guy's used to it every time I go to LA with him I recline the seat and if we got to get out of the out of the vehicle mm-mm I can't walk down a goddamn street without people fucking grabbing him and I'm just, I don't know I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around that shit it takes time Seany boy listen for coming on a day and telling your story I thoroughly enjoyed it no doubt you've lived a fucking mad life you've done a lot of bad shit I genuinely wish you nothing but the best for the future mate I genuinely hand on art wish nothing like great things for your future you deserve it especially with your upbringing would you like to finish up on anything else cherish what you have because we are all literally here for a blink of an eye okay if you lived to 100 we're only here for a blink of an eye if you're young do not commit crime it's just it's a life of agony you do not want figure out whatever it is you want to do in school you know my stepdaughter is in college and I'm so proud of my stepdaughter my wife's daughter just 18 years old graduated jumped right into college perfect kid and I just think that um crime just I'm gonna go back on what I said crime does not pay because there's only two roads out and you're gonna end up in a cell for the rest of your life or for a good portion of your life depending on what crimes you commit or you're gonna end up in a shallow grave in the woods somewhere sure boy all the best my brother thank you again thank you man awesome