 Welcome to the Monday, June 8th, 2018 meeting of the Montpelier Design Review Committee. I will let members and staff introduce themselves. Hannah Smith. Liz Critchett. Stephen Everett. Meredith Crandall. Staff. Eric Gilbertson. Benjamin Cheney. We are advisory to the Development Review Board. We will listen to each of the applications and move them forward. And if nobody has any other questions or suggestions, do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? Yeah, I'd like to add, under other business, that I want to report on the Historic Preservation Commission work on the new design review regs. Okay. Just going forward, not as fast as we might like. Well, progress is good. Yes. Otherwise, I'd move approval. Okay. Do I hear a second? I second. All in favor of the agenda, raise your hand. And we can move to the first application for 17 Court Street. Court Street Associates. Hannah Walder. That must be you. We're signed. We're signed. Go ahead and tell us about your application. So we've got three buildings on two parcels that are part of the same kind of property company that are signed in H4. We have entrance signs to direct people to the parking lot and then each building is going to get a directorate. Are they split up? Do you need a copy of that? Sure. I actually gave all of my application away. I didn't even make a copy of myself. So they had me split up the two applications. They didn't know it was all. It's all the same project, but because they're two different parcels, that's why I like the seminar crossed out. I think they split it up between 17 and 19. Yeah. And then 19 and 21. So we'll start with 17 and 21. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I won. Okay. We've had the four 달 and 15 and then 19. Yeah. And then 19 and 21. So we'll start with 17. So for 17 we just have the new well directory site. So the ones in blue is the final. We first went with kind of a black, which掉ers that were on originally, but I think everyone just changed up a little bit. have a color chip for the? I don't. I don't. Is it a dark blue? It's in light white colors. It's like a baby blue color. And it's not a paint, it's a composite. So it will be, you know, just like the coating is a certain color. Okay. So it's blue, white background, black letters. Okay. My only suggestion just for readability is the darker it is, the more contrast you're going to get between the white and the blue. If the baby blue is too light, it's going to fade in. The white's going to fade into the baby blue. So again for readability, the darker it is, the better. Right. The better it reads. When we have a red patch to the colors, you know, it's a new project. So. Again, that's just a matter of, I've had experience with contrast and the more contrast you have, the better it reads. That's probably why there were black and white. Is it, Charlie? The black and white's good, but the contrast for the 17 court street against the blue. So consider that when you're picking your food. Any other questions, comments, suggestions? Size is okay. Yes. So I will go down through. I'll have to do this for 17 and then again for 1921. There's set of standards, design review standards, and I'll just read down through them. Number one, a preservation reconstruction of the appropriate historic style of the proposed projects in the historic district involves an historic structure, acceptable. Parmint of exterior design with other properties in the district, acceptable. Compatibility of proposed exterior materials with other properties, acceptable. Compatibility of proposed landscaping, not proposed in this application. Prevention of the use of incompatible designs, buildings, color schemes, or exterior materials, acceptable. Location and appearance of all utilities. Is there any lighting on the sign other than ambient from the porch? Nope. Okay. So that'll be not applicable here. Recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas, including gateway views of the city and state house, acceptable. Conformance with city skate placement and design recommendations, acceptable. Compatibility with subject property and adjacent properties, acceptable. Show not obscure significant architectural details, acceptable. Consistency and uniformity of multiple signs in CB2 and OP districts, not applicable. Illumination, not applicable. Penits and banners, not applicable. Individual letters of fixed painted or engraved directly on the building or structure are encouraged. The sign is acceptable. And again, the only, I'm just for optional changes. I'm just gonna say applicant. Select darker blue. Again, this is your option. Darker blue background. And again, that's your option. You can select a darker blue than what you're showing here. If you choose that for better contrast and readability. All in favor of the application that's proposed raise your hand. And I'll have you sign right here above my name. You have a pen? Okay, the next application is for 19 and 21 Court Street. And this for the ground sign and three wall directory signs. And the sign in front of the building is black and white. Okay, same color. I saw the note blue, but it picture showing black. So I just wanted to make sure. So again, all these signs are blue as well. Again, I was saying, reading this black aluminum, aluminum composite down here. So I just wanted to make sure that how easy are art to change names? For the company screws, if you just take the name off of these blank spaces indicate empty offices. Yes. It looks like you're changing the location of the one at 19 Court Street. So there's an existing sign, right? But it's kind of really high up above the under the board. So you can't really see it very well. So we're gonna place that. Yeah, we're just going to move it to the side of the building. So two signs, two sides of the building, one for 19 Court Street and one for 21. That's in the back. Thank you. 21 and attachment to that building. It's a separate building behind. Okay. So the one on the side of 19 is the one that's pointing to 21 in the back. Yep, with the names. Okay. Comments, questions, suggestions. Again, think about the readability of the signs that darker color gives you a better contrast. So again, through the same set of criteria, design review standards, number one, a preservation or reconstruction of the appropriate historic style of proposed projects in the historic district involves an historic structure acceptable harmony of exterior design with other properties acceptable compatibility of proposed exterior materials with other properties in the district acceptable compatibility of proposed landscaping proposed prevention of the use of incompatible designs buildings color schemes or exterior materials acceptable location and appearance of all utilities no lighting on any of the signs including these freestanding up front. Not applicable recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas including gave reviews of the city and state house acceptable. Informance with cityscape placement and design recommendations acceptable compatibility with subject property and adjacent properties acceptable does not obscure significant architectural details acceptable. Consistency in one of uniformity of multiple signs in CP two and OB districts not applicable with illumination applicable penance and banners not applicable. Individual letters of fixed painted or engraved directly on the building structure are encouraged acceptable. All in favor of the application is proposed. Letters. What was the last thing was interesting is encouraged. Well, that's it depends on the building and the location. Like downtown somebody sometimes people put individual letters like an assigned band. So it says individual letters of fixed painted or engraved directly on the building or structure are encouraged. But on the side of a building where you've got a collaborative building assigned like proposing makes more sense. It just it's a matter of what the building looks like whether there's a signed band, whether it's downtown or different neighborhood. I'm not sure it'd be easy to attach individual letters to a building and then you've got a lot of moisture issues at the same time. So again, you can sign this one above my name in the middle there. No, you don't have to stay. Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you very much. Good luck with your project. Next application is for 27 School Street. He turn up properties when he's not here. Okay, Chris. Okay, Chris Pierce. It's me. Okay, for the record, I should probably recuse myself in that I was at one point involved in this project. Okay, that's fine. Go ahead and describe your application. Okay, so I'll just go give you the complete history of what happened here. So we started out with this building over a year ago. My client purchased the building and then asked me to go in and change some heat and pull up some old carpets and expose the old hardwood floors. And we started doing that. And then we found rotting cells and, you know, just a typical house in Montclair that hasn't been maintained or was fully maintained for 50 plus years. So we found a lot of things and immediately went into repair mode. And then that morphed into calling an architect to change the walls and interior change. Then we did some exterior changes because of the interior changes that happened. And kind of missed the ball on the zoning permit. So here we are. And so now we're trying to do it the right way. There is some work that's already been completed. We've tried to do it tastefully. Hopefully find the same. There was some siding we had replaced after we we've actually lifted the rear end of the building and put a whole new frost wall underneath it. So in doing that, we have to expose the sills. Doing that you have to tear off a lot of lower part of the building. They had a very unique siding and had a has a little contour to the clabber. It's got a little bead on the bottom of it. So we did replace that. I actually milled each one of them to make it match. So I'm trying to do it that way. I like to do things the right way. I don't do them half, half. I like to do it all the way. A couple of things that we are doing is adding that we'd like to add is a couple of modern touches, which would be there's a secondary egress that we would like to put in the rear. That would be a metal spiral staircase. The reason we want to do that is we've gotten approval to add a six apartment and attic. And they've given us a pass on putting sprinklers in if we can do a secondary egress, which would be coming out the rear of the building. That's the spiral staircase that we want to do. To get to the staircase, we have to add a deck or a way to get to the staircase can't just be a walkway. So we decided we should make a nice space. There's nothing you can see from the street, but you can see it from your buildings. Yes, I've been watching the progress of this thing going on and on. At this point, we would like to get bodies in there as soon as possible. So I'm sure I'm missing some stuff. I know you probably have some questions, but that's basically the job in a nutshell. There are some ads that we would like to do that are on the application, including a solar parking area, which probably realistically won't be done until next year if we get to it. We wanted to jump on that though, because the solar credits are up at the end of the month. So we've already put in for CPG for that project, which doesn't matter much to the town. We do have it in the works. And this stairway that we put in, which is so there's back part of the building that was had to be removed in order to fix the sills because it was actually built on dirt. The stairway that was in it didn't be code. And there was no way to actually put a stairway back there without extending it beyond the footprint of the building. And so with it maintaining the footprint of building we had it there was an actual like a shed roof that someone put on in the past 25 years, I assume that wasn't built very well and was falling off and the snow hit and actually took most of it down. And that's where we built that that rear staircase. You can see that actually if you look at the picture of it. Yeah, right. So that was within the shadow of the original building. But it's now a staircase instead of a shed room. And now it's access to that second floor apartment. Underneath there is where you're thinking about putting the laundry. Yes, which wasn't a small rotting part of this decks. I don't know what you call it was like a flat landing area deck type system that had that was again built on dirt and had to come off to do the to do the sale work. So it's tucked back underneath. Yeah, it's underneath. It's still in the same exact footprint that was originally there. It's just we want to build it into a laundry room for the tenants use instead of making it a public space or a deck space. You're talking about the Sierra in here? Yeah. Actually no, that that's original that that's just being replaced because that again, I have pictures of when we lifted the building, but that all had to be torn out in order to get under those posts. Now we're just rebuilding us the way it was. That's an entry deck four feet wide. Yes, we recognize him from earlier projects. Parking structure. Yes. Back. Does that have a schedule? Yeah, a shed roof. Have you been to the co pop here? Yeah. So we want to build something similar to that. There are budgetary constraints that may make it a little less fancy than that. But that's basic idea to be a carport type system. And then we have a solar roof instead of a wooden neck or shake the back for a lot. Yeah. Very into the driveway. The laundry room be under here under this. No, actually, here. Yeah, right. You can see where the siding ends. That's kind of right where we were. It's pretty small. Don't see seven feet by. Oh, yeah. It's very important to pad. So pretty nice. To the side. But there's room under the stairs. Just a little walk down. So the building actually bumps out for the upper apartment. Yeah. Okay, I can see that. Yeah. So the laundry room was eight by eight seven by eight. So it comes out a few more. There's a space in between where the stairs go up. Okay. And the wall is the wall of the upper. We would fill that space in with a roof that matched the stairway. You looked at it. So the wall, the wall, the back wall of the laundry area would be adjacent to that window casing. Yeah, it'd be right along that casing. Yeah, come out from there. Right. What do you put a coin up in there? Double stack. So you can maybe rent them. I said, no, I was talking to Will Coglin from Neckie. You know, Will. Yes. Say you can actually rent them. I didn't know that they're really expensive. Yes, they are. And the big deal is saving the whole building. I mean, it was going underground in the back. Nothing could touch for 30 years. I looked at it. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was in hindsight, I wish I feel like we're doing like anyhow. It's been incredible here to the extent of just what you don't see. Just to keep the building. It's amazing that it didn't burn down. It was my number two extensive. So I'm glad we can get to the details and make it pretty again. But a labor of love. That's great building. Not anymore. It's a great build to the finish. It's a great building and it's a nice lot. Yeah, it is. It's pretty painted. I did farm up with the building. I mean, the building itself is pretty color. I think it's always been either really hated. And then there's a few minority of people, maybe five out of 100 that say I don't mind it. I actually find it interesting. But it's pretty, most people do not like that color. So we were, I don't know, it's in there will be really like to do the same colors as the Unitarian Church, the gray and white, very traditional colors. I think it was really beautiful. That looks nice. And a darker, a little darker gray body color will hide the dark that you get with a lighter color building. So that's a good maybe some, maybe some black little detail. So many details that would be nice to actually accentuate those. What maker of the windows you're using for the replacements? Two over two. They're called Harvey. Harvey's area. Trying to maintain that not have to mess with any of the exterior. Not only is there a lot of lead paint on it, but it's nice to keep the old woodwork, not have to replace it. If you do new windows, it's pretty expensive. You start taking that apart. Re-doing replacement. Replace it just so you just take, you take the stops out, sash out, and you tip the new one in and put your stops back. Right. You're restoring some of the windows on the front. You already did. A lot of them have been re-glazed. There are a lot of cracked ones. You know, keeping the old glass as best we can, but a lot of cracked new weights. We put in new weights of cords. Are you using the historic preservation tax credit or on this one? So we will for, I would just say, for electrical safety. Or the downtown. Fire safety, yeah, whatever it is, but a couple of things we couldn't do. Yeah, it's a couple of historic stuff that we couldn't done that before, but that's a good question. Just curious. So there's a federal investment tax credit as well. I think we're doing that for the old retro again. Yeah, if you filed your application and everything. And we've worked with the woman who's from the state. Caitlin. Exactly. I worked for the state for 30 years, so that's. That was Chris Cochran. You're thinking of Chris Cochran. It's good to see you, right? Yeah, good to see you, too. You're in there. This, so this roof is, it looks like it's pitched. How are you putting it back on? It would be, you know, it would be carried to the front part would be higher than that point, you know, in terms of foundation, in terms of foundation, but you know, it's those decks are done. Yes, so this door, no, that one will be a door and then there's a difference from this corner to about where the threshold of that door would be of a foot and a half. So we would bring it up to that level and level it off. And this is where we would bump this out and put a spiral stair on it. I'm kind of surprised they let you use the winder. Yeah, the spiral stair. Well, there's a certain dimension of capacity. Yeah, four of those kinds of things. They were really, really trying to work with us because of the, not only to get out into the middle of school street, the expense to go under the heating system and put in the proper size feed line of just to get water into the building to run a sprinkler system would exceed like a year's worth of work on of carpentry. So they wanted people to hook up sprinklers. I mean, the city could let people know when they were tearing up stuff, putting the heating in, maybe put some kind of fee past the sidewalk. And then I think people would be much more able to do it. But if you're not doing it in the partnership that you pay for everything to get underneath it, I do that. And I'm hoping already at non-elk street that it's really expensive. Would they require a four or six inch pipe? Four. Four. But you know, they could have that feed like when they're doing the work and they're under there at that time. You know, at least to the show, that would be great. It's just something to think of for the future. This is the second time I've sort of gone through this. And I don't know why I, you know, you're just not, I don't know in this building, but if they want buildings to be sprinkled with the city might think, okay, which where are we going next to dig up the streets? How can we make it easy because they're going. And nothing more. You could put a piece of six inch PVC from there all the way inside the building and then you could thread it through. That's all I'm saying. They could just set it up and then same with the heating plant. Like this building would have been primed to set up with city heating, but it has three quarter inch pipe coming in. You know what we're talking about? The feed for the sprinkler system is just too hugely expensive. So that's been great. Chris and I can't remember the captain's name. We're working with us to get that. That's why they allowed that. As long as we meet their specs. There are other towns that actually live. You have a landing. It's called the rest of the landing or whatever because we have a ladder truck that's a fortune to in the city. You know what's in other towns like you have outside the window? Yeah. Refuge. And you know, we had pictures of that, but they really wanted something more elaborate here. We have the same truck. And I serve on here for less people. Close. If anything, is there any additional? First of all, what is the black lines coming down here? What is that? Oh, that I'm sorry. That was showing that the posts that we would put in to add the additional 15 square feet where we would land the spiral staircase. So they'll come out. We have to put in some six by six posts to land. So to put in the spiral stair, we need to we need to give enough space coming out of that doorway out of this doorway. Not the upper one. The upper one. Yep. So we need to bump it out. So we can put the land, we can land the stairs further out on that deck, that upper, upper deck. The deck itself isn't large enough to carry. It's not larger. News spiral staircase. Okay. I did that in Audra's office. She said, you need to show me where those are going. So, okay, grab the Sharpie and sorry, it's not for elaborate. Some of this was done literally within like 24 hour period I drew my little spiral stairs and things like that to try and get this in so that we can get approval so that we can get bodies on the building. How far back do you have to return this railing? Because you have to have a return on it back right here. The upper railing, when you come out, have you seen it? I think it would go all the way around the whole deck. All the way around the entire, this entire deck up about. It's a six-pitch roof, so it would almost be flat. So you'd have the same spindle railing design as you're using here? Yeah, that would, that's the way I would like to do it. Okay. And last week, some of this, one caveat to that is that some of this is in bid right now. We're trying to figure out what materials are affordable, what, you know, what we can use what's too heavy to put up there, what meets all the criteria that we need to build it and stay within a budget that works. So I'd love to hear suggestions if you say that you should do what you think you would because you steal, you can't do steal handrails up to a certain length. But I propose doing the same as what we did because I doubt it. Essentially you're not going to need to make change for materials, but you're not going to change the design. No, I don't, no. Materials is the one thing that I can't, we can't totally put our finger on because we're not fully sure what's affordable, I mean, I have, we have things we'd love to do, but some of it is out of each, so that's why there's not as much detail as we could possibly be. But we'll try to carry that same book. Right. Wouldn't want to mix, mix too much. Yeah, because by the way, stair would be metal, right? Yeah, I just throw it one down and it makes the most sense and easier to adapt to be any other changes like to the front of the building. I noticed that you have that picture of the impressive like your front railings here. Any proposal to change those? Or is that you could stay just trying to restore everything? Okay. A lot of that was because of the, you know, the historical people we were working in, so they didn't want us to change. Anything front facing? Nothing that you can see from the street. But it doesn't need it. It's all actually pretty shape out front. Okay. No, I was talking more specifically about the little iron railings that are done right here. They're not historic. I've had thoughts on that. Unless insurance says we have to. No, I mean, that's something, it was a more of a design thing rather than a structural or a safety or okay. How many units proposed for the building? So six total one or two on each floor in the front? Not exactly. Two, two, and three with this efficiency board and then one up with the add. So two, three, one going up. Okay. And then in the back section. Well, that includes the back. That includes the back. So we did really change. Yep. Too much of the, I mean, we changed the footprint in some ways. Upstairs, but downstairs, nothing to speak of. And we don't know what makes it nicer. We're going to change it. And we do turn the walls down. Yeah. Just try to open up the bottom of everything and be straight and straight for everything. Like even knowing we're going to have to have this roof dead and put framing members right down to the foundation. Yeah. It's all prepared inside for all the exterior. Prepared for the exterior roof. So when we open that shed roof up in that of, you know, where that deck is going, you need to prepare the inside for the load. It's very like that. We did all the energy efficiency upgrades while we were in there. Spray foam. Spray foam, dense, dense back. So are we all spray foam? All the walls are spray foam. The basement's been spray foamed. There will be some dense back in the attic space or the crawl space above that rear section. There's little things that you sit here just like we wanted to do underground electric from. I mean, you know, we went back and forth. This building was days of Chris working. He knows electrical really well. And they're out of code right now. That's, you know, everything in this building. There's a code violation of the feed coming into the building. It's attached. It's not where it should be. So, you know, that has to change. Because we would have to save a new pole right here. You mean it needs to be eight feet or more above any horizontal surface. That's like about five and a half feet. So it has to be rectified and then, but it's our expense to rectify that. So obviously I propose to go underground and to get underground. Let's say, you know, it's incredible. So we're going to leave it the way it is. We have to raise the code to raise it. But we're trying to make it pretty. Who wants to see power lines on the front of a nice building? What are you going to do? Just to put a new pole in to tell you to the social services people. Oh, yeah. So shared services. Where's the closest pole that should come from for underground? Well, there is a pole in the front of the building, but it's from 1930 or somewhere around there. It needs to get replaced, has too many wires on it. So they can't really tap into that. Can't go underground because the Social Security Building has already got a four inch steel condo up there. And we don't want to go near that. So we'd have to actually put our own pole in. And doing that, we'd have to take out a tree. And so we put it on our own pole and then everybody wants to tap onto the pole. And then they charge you for, you know, changing the wire to the new pole. That's an example. Yes, where we'd like to do it right, but the costs are phenomenal to do it right, given the circumstances. And we've run through that with all the scenarios. Every time we try to see this improvement of light, it's really the face of it. And we've tried to do it as much as we can. So probably just, I just can't. Is there any lighting added back here that wasn't there before? Yeah, by the door. By this door? Yeah, and also by the door above, on the deck. There's the light. Oh, right, on that. Yes, right. We did add that. That was... Is there light outside too? That was already there. We left that. So just in lighting, that was in use. We left it because we've met code. Anything new. So outside the door, that upper door we did add, you can see a little right up here. Right there. Yep. And I landed it on just a little wall mounted. Yeah, I haven't actually picked any pictures yet. Probably match everything that's already there. Unless there's anything we can't do. It would be tasteful. I don't know where the other one is. I don't know where the other one is. And then we did put security. There's security lighting on there. We added one so that you can see those stairs at the back part. Right now there's just a wire whip setting. Maybe I'm actually out of the light. Did you get any idea of the shrubs? Is that part of your screen? That's right. Okay, thanks. Yeah, so we'll figure that out. It's a similar building across the street. It might have been built by the same architect. See that one, I think, is it the glares? The glares, it looks pretty similar. You know, it's white and black. Yes. It really looks like a period. There's a lot of that. I actually did count. There's a lot of the same features. A lot of design features that are included in those buildings. It's very nice. I mean, when you finish this and paint it and get that contrast between the trim body color and maybe some accent color, it'll look really, really nice. Now, are you keeping the storm windows on the front of the building? Design, we want. Just at some point, you've got to just stop telling how to try to just get some tenants. You get to a point you need to win the lottery to do what you'd really like to do. It'd be great to take those off. There's a building on Main Street across from the middle school, that's gray. There's a similar window that are up to the top, and they're really beautiful. They have like this, I think it's like a stained glass that you know what I'm talking about. Love to do that kind of thing, but you know. Is that the wing mansion? I think that's what it's called. It's art. I think it's a purpose. I know. It's really beautiful. It's to damage. Yeah, it's right up there. Yeah. I love that. Very cool. But are they hidden by those ugly storms? I just threw in the security lighting and the fixtures beside the doorways at the rear of the building. You know, you can add fixtures there designed at which to just match the other existing fixtures on the building. I'm just trying to cover the basis of anything you've got about the main one I had or change your narrative as to the lighting. Yeah, they're super simple. Any other, did you have anything you wanted to add? Sent you. No, I wouldn't. OK. I wasn't sure if you were involved in deck planning or any of that other stuff. OK. OK. Very minimally involved, but it felt like it was. Any other comments, questions, suggestions? No. OK. I'll go through the criteria for what you're proposing. Preservation or reconstruction of the appropriate historic style of the proposed projects in the historic district involves an historic structure acceptable. Harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district acceptable. Compatibility of proposed exterior materials with other properties in the district acceptable. Compatibility of proposed landscaping non-proposed in this application. Prevention of the use of incompatible designs, buildings, color schemes, or exterior materials. Acceptable location and appearance of all utilities. Acceptable recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas, including gateway views of the city and state house. Acceptable all in favor of the application as proposed, which we have. I'll let you sign above my name in the lower left-hand corner there. That's a lot. You don't see the video. Is there a phone? I keep it. No. It's a good example. It's a lot of good information. Yes. I'll never forget. Nothing continued. So you can keep them if you want. I'll take them all back. Mm-hmm. Now, it's hard to not move to the store. You know, they had us match the roof. I mean, they had a match. They had us match the roof to the building. Look, it's totally like non-functional. All the snow and ice and everything turns right into the handicap graph. So now I'm really, you know, interested in making sure things just work. Yeah. Sure. Yeah, the exterior stairs are ramps. It's helpful to have it just in a place where it's not going to dump on it or some kind of cover or at least a metal grid. There's more systems upstairs for that. And we've done that everywhere. Yeah. Longevity, those galvanized trends. Galvanized. That's what we use. That's what we use. Yeah. Thank you all. You're going to have to shovel it either. I know. It saves a lot. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Good luck. Good luck with your continuing project. We do need that. Okay. Yeah. Okay. We have the minutes from May the 21st. I'll move them. Do I hear a second? I second it. All in favor of the minutes from the 21st. Raise your hand. I'll move us up here. The minutes are approved. And our other business, do you want to fill us in on the... Yeah, I will fill you in. It's the Historic Preservation Conference. It's really interesting. The speaker is named Gar Williams. She just put a book out in a thousand towns. She's been in a thousand small towns singing. And during her talk, she talked and then she sang a song. Oh, that's great. She was great. I couldn't go. Yeah. And a couple of the concepts she talked about, small communities, is where history joins with the present. I think that is a concept for looking at Montpellier and saying, okay, we're an active, real town in the present, but we're also respecting our history. Another concept I really like is honoring a town's past keeps it vital for the future. And I think that both of those things kind of exemplify Montpellier as being a vital community because of its historic character. And that's sort of inspiring. So it was a good conference. Yeah, the other thing, when we have, I think, a better draft, I'll send everybody a draft of the new works. I've got some stuff. I want to review it, but I'll send it. I'll probably send it to you, Meredith, and you can send it out. And June 26th is the next Historic Preservation Commission meeting. And we had trouble for two meetings getting before them. But you guys are all welcome. It's at 6.30. And usually we have it up in the manager's conference room, the little conference room. What was the date again? June 26th at 6.30. And on July 12th, we're having a public hearing and meeting. And it's going to be a kind of an informal thing where people can go around and talk. And then we'll have a formal presentation. That's July 12th. It'll be, I think, 4.30 to 7. That'll be up in the memorial room. So you're all invited to that. It's been going slower than I would have liked. But... Well, it's happening. It's happening. It's good. I'm designing you to look at it and see, you know, does this work? I took the application for the 27th School Street. I'm going to take it to the... I think that's sort of an extant of a thing as we usually look at in downtown. Most of what we look at is signs. And I'm going to probably call on you, Steve. And if anybody has an idea, I want to help with the regs. We're going to do a list of types of applications so our regs address... Well address the most common kinds of applications that we have. You know, I mean, it's... We've got a whole bunch of stuff on new construction, which happens every five years. You know, we don't... It's actually a lot easier to do the criteria for new construction than it is for rehabilitation. So any projects that you think of, just get them to me. I'm going to go through the agendas on the website and pick out projects. Just try to get an idea of how many projects do we get that are as extensive as the one on School Street that we looked at. You know, most of the ones are pretty... I mean, I think of the projects that... What's the name of the outfit that's done? Doing all the buildings on Berry Street. Oh, the house? Yeah, the house. Downstreet. Downstreet housing. I think of those, they're some of our more extensive projects. You know, windows in downtown. We've probably done pretty double done with those. But I want to sort of get, if any of you have any ideas if some of you need me or something, categories of projects so that I want to make sure the rigs kind of fit in there. The whole thing is in pain. Well, I think they've been around for a long time. I think they need some tweaking and stuff like that. But people are convinced that design review is a terrible burden. Some people, a few people are convinced that design review is a terrible burden. Now, look at what we went through tonight. Yeah. We went through a really extensive project that's doing a lot of work on the building. And, you know, it passed in this, you know, the sign stuff. Well, all it has to do with the sensitivity of the owner and whoever's the contractor. I, you know, to make whatever the changes are compatible and, you know. It feels like they went after it a little willy-nilly, though, that they just sort of started in on that thing. And there's, like, staircases all over the place. And that bumped out. They didn't have a thoughtful plan when they started. I understand that that sometimes happens. That makes it hard. Well, the initial plan was just to sort of repair what was there, and it just kept going deeper and deeper and deeper. And actually, had they partly demolished and rebuilt exactly what was there, there's really no change. If they're, technically, if they're making some improvements to it by changing the design, tweaking it so it fits the building better than what was there that was done, you know, 50 years ago or whenever. Technically, you know, they would have to come before the committee and, you know, put an application. If they could buy Caitlin for the tax credits. Yeah, so that's, she has reviewed the stairs and everything. I was a little unsure about that. I don't know. Well, they are in the back. How picky do they get? Well, Caitlin can be pretty fussy, but it's not visible from the street. It's not that big. It's actually more visible from the state street than it is from. Oh, okay. When you're coming down the street, when you're above 32 and between 32 and 28, you see the street through. Oh, really? Yeah, well, a little ways away. Let's be by looking out of the sight window when they're driving. Yeah, true. That's dangerous on the state street. Okay, well thank you for, and with that, I'll move adjournment. Do I hear a second? Second. All in favor of adjournment, raise your hand. Meeting is adjourned.