 Good afternoon. I'm Jennifer Schenker, Editor-in-Chief of The Innovator. Welcome to the Growth Summit session on Future of Work, Science and Technology. Global labor markets are now facing a challenging combination of economic and geopolitical volatility combined with growing social and environmental pressures. According to the Forum's Latest Future of Jobs report 2023, 50% of workers will need re-skilling by 2025 and skill gaps in the local labor market remain one of the key barriers to technology adoption by businesses. While ensuring workers have the skills for the jobs of tomorrow is a key imperative, several sectors including AI and cybersecurity report difficulty in attracting and retaining the tech talent necessary for the world of work today. What's the size of the challenge and how can government and business come together to scale the necessary up-skilling and re-skilling investments? The objective of today's session is to understand the size of the problem, explore the role of up-skilling and re-skilling in providing workers with the skills of the future of work in science and technology, amplify existing workforce initiatives that can support in attracting and retaining science and technology talent, and identify effective public-private strategies that can close the digital skills gap and ensure workers have the skills they need for the jobs of today and of tomorrow. So with that, I'd like to introduce our panel. Next to me is Minister Azir Al-Yuh, Minister of Information Society and Administration of the Republic of North Macedonia. Welcome. Thank you very much. Lisa Mello, Vice-President of Learning and Performance for the Royal Bank of Canada and Oikir Izik, Professor of Digital Strategy and Cybersecurity at the IMD Business School in Switzerland. So let's kick off with you, Minister. What in your view is the global science and technology skills gap and what impact is it having on organizations today? Thank you very much for having me, Jennifer. So as you mentioned, skills gap really remind key barriers in industry and in society, but especially in local labor market, as you mentioned, and especially in small countries with limited resources related to infrastructure, technologies, labs, education, and so on. So today we are facing, it's a global problem. We are facing such gap and this is the reason why you hear daily about digital transformation, digital strategies, ICT strategies, cybersecurity strategies, and we are aware that we are facing this kind of, let's say, gaps and problems and it will be bigger and bigger every day because we invest a lot and industry invest a lot in new technologies, new approach of the problems from the other side, universities and educations are in, let's say, different gaps without not proper infrastructure, labs, know how they do a lot, let's say, research, theoretical research, not applied research, they don't have enough, let's say, collaboration and cooperation between industries and research and education. So we have to work in this way in order to be aware and to reduce the gap between what we train and what kind of approach we have in this way and what industry needs and what kind of approach they have in daily life. So what we do in North Macedonia, we have working group to create, to establish agency for digitalization. It will be umbrella in our country in order to deal with such kind of problems, gaps and to give solutions. So it will have four pillars. The first one, it will be for critical infrastructure and ICT infrastructure around the country. The second one, it will be academia trainings in order to reskill and upscale the public sector but also working together with industry. So the workers there, the third one will be application and development for public sector and the country and the last one for cybersecurity. So we think that with such kind of agency and approach, it will be much more easier for us as a small country with limited resources to reduce the gap. Okay, thank you. Let me turn to you now and ask from your perspective, from a global perspective, certainly government has a role to play here but so does private industry. What do we need to change in order to do a better job training, recruiting, retaining the right talent? Thank you, Jennifer. It's a pleasure to be here. When I talk to our participants, for instance, who attend digital programs at AMD, we do still see that there's a huge appetite in digital transformation still. Interest in AI, interest in cybersecurity, but we still do hear about digital transformation initiatives failing or going too slow, not achieving the results they want to achieve. So there's still this wanting to do versus actually doing gap there and they do talk about the need for more data scientists, more cybersecurity analysts in organizations, right? But I think I do observe another gap, right? The gap of the knowledge in non-digital executives and their understanding around what can I really expect from this technology? What is the business objective that I'm trying to achieve with this new project around, for instance, AI? So this is another thing that I think organizations can also tackle. You're asking what can they do, right? So there are different phases to the problem. There's the phase around, like the minister was talking about, the pool of talent. How can we grow the pool of talent? But there's also the challenge of hiring processes, right? What are we doing during that process? And when the talent is in the organization, how am I actually retaining the process? Just one small example. Several chief information security officers that I'm talking to, only half jokingly saying that half of my time goes to hiring, interviewing candidates, training them, only to lose them to my competitor after six months because the market is the employees market, right? And there are a lot of opportunities for them. And then I start the cycle again. So this cycle of hiring, interviewing and training cycles, of course counterproductive also for executives. So investing in self-development or learning and development initiatives in organizations and maybe training on the job is something else they have also started thinking about. Okay, Lisa, let me turn to you and your experience in the bank. So we know that the pool of talent isn't big enough. Every company is competing for AI talent, for cybersecurity talent. During this growth summit, there's been discussion about maybe we need to move the emphasis away from just looking at people's education and job experience to their aptitude and mapping skills from one area to the next. What's your point of view on that? Yeah, thank you for having me, Jennifer. And I agree we are not going to recruit our way out of this issue. And training and reskilling in the flow of work truly is a lever, I think, that we can all pull. You know, we've been at reskilling and upskilling for some time. However, what's changed is the urgency and the pace of change. So previously, we were identifying employees whose jobs were disrupted as a result of automation. But now we know there's so much more disrupting jobs than automation. So creating pathways that are curated, that are self-directed, self-paced, but with support, you know, so having access to learning circles and having access to coaches. But again, at your own pace, this idea of micro-credentials and degrees, you know, they don't have to be mutually exclusive. You know, degrees are sure they're necessary. However, you know, my degree, how many of us are actually in fields with the degrees that we have. You know, it changes so often. So how can we leverage micro-credentialing and stacking it up so it has almost an equivalency to a degree and working with our education partners and governments to really facilitate that? Do we need to rethink HR and the way we hire? So that's one question I will throw out to all of you. And the second part of that is there is now a growing adoption of AI tools by HR departments and they're being used to filter candidates. Are we not in danger of adding more bias into the process? How do we ensure that we are, you know, widening our view on, you know, who's good at what and who should be with a little bit more training could become the cybersecurity expert or do something completely different in the organization? Yeah, I would agree. Skills-based hiring, you know, versus hiring for jobs is a way to get at that and rethinking jobs. So, you know, can we think about re-skilling and skill-based hiring where, you know, the work is clustered and it creates internal mobility, you know, and it's not a job. That takes a lot of organizational effort and commitment. But I think it is a way, you know, to, like I said earlier, get out of this recruitment hole, but that we're in. And, you know, there are assessments before and after to help with the bias as well. I may think I have certain skills. My manager may think I have different skills. Where do we agree and how do we fill the gap, you know, and plan that gap out? So definitely, you know, mining more data of the skills that we have, the gaps that exist and how we fill them, and using tools, you know, to help with that. So maybe we can talk about what's working on the ground and what could be implemented to help move things along. I wanted to go back to a point that you made about retaining talent. Because if companies are having to retrain for the same positions, it's a waste of time for everyone. What do we need to do once we get the right people in the door, or we identify them and we help them reskill to keep them in place? Do you have a point of view on that? I think that definitely there is a way to bridge the situation. Sorry. So maybe the industry and then universities and formal and non-formal education needs to be closer to working and create curriculum study programs that are related to the needs, really needs and technologies that industry needs. So this is the only way. How can we boost the process and be in line? Did you want to add to that? Yes, I think adding to what Lisa was saying, micro-credentials or the concept of lifelong learning in organizations. It has an impact on the culture, the way we approach things. So maybe tying this to the role of learning and development and HR. So the need to realize that maybe indeed when you talk about technology-related skillset, we're talking about a very dynamic field that requires constant revision of capability, skills and expertise. So bringing that into the conversation means a much bigger responsibility on the learning and development teams in organizations. I think we also need to change the language a little bit. Just specifically talking about cybersecurity, right? Still looking into this team in the organizations, you know, the old joke around them being in the dungeon doing their thing. It's still, maybe not as much, but still kind of there. So the language around, for instance, cybersecurity that really associates it with a very fringe side of IT, it deals with this and that, as if it's distant from business, should be demolished, right? It is core element. We are going through digital transformation. Cybersecurity is a core capability, not as nice to have. So the way we frame this, the way we talk about these things in the organization impacts the way we approach it as well. I think so that also needs to change and be part of the culture and become part of everyday conversation in the organizations. Yes, I mean, in terms of, and also widening the pool, I have heard people say that a good cybersecurity expert, you know, needs to have emotional intelligence. And this is something, if that is emphasized, could perhaps attract more women to go into the sector rather than, you know, the boys in the dungeon. So I think that, you know, in terms of workplace diversity as well. And maybe, you know, this is true for government as well as business and at the educational level, we need to think about work in a completely different way and start with the premise that no one is going to have a job for life. No one is going to have the same profession for life. And that this is an exciting opportunity to continuously reinvent yourself. And I think that if we start in schools and then the workplace also tells you, we're not mapping your path for you for the next 40 years. We can't. It's going to evolve and you're going to have to evolve with it. That, you know, people will have maybe an easier time to adapt to change. But this is the reason why we need to create infrastructure for them in order to train and to have opportunities to switch from one to another, maybe work. And this is the reason why we have to work together with the industry to create hubs, accelerators, tech parks and so on. Are there some public-private initiatives you could point to that, you know, you think are working well or are there some you'd like to see? I'm aware of a few in Europe when it comes to not necessarily skill development, but for instance cyber security best practice sharing platforms, right? Or threat intelligence sharing platforms, which we also talk about that we need more of, right? Still, this is not a topic that is discussed very widely. So to foster that discussion, we need to bring together either the players in the same industry or even across industries with maybe the guidance of government to say let's discuss the common threats that we have. So we actually learn from each other. A similar approach can be applied here as well, I think. So we do need a systemic change. So industry opportunities to foster hands-on learning, right? Or internships for younger population, but also a revision of the curriculum, right? What are high school students already learning about this? Are we teaching the right topics in universities? And questions around that also would require multi-stakeholder meetings, I guess. I would add that internships pick up on that. You know, we offer at RBC many different types of internships. One that we're quite proud of is where you have university graduates who just are not able to get a job because they don't have the experience. So we bring them in and we give them experience in a client-facing type of setting, in a knowledge work type of setting, and then in a not-for-profit. So we partner with charities so that the individual gets not only corporate, but also not-for-profit. And we don't keep them, right? Then they go, and most of them are able to secure employment. So more of that internship, more work-integrated learning, as you were saying. You know, our employees want it. It really is a differentiator if you're able to offer that. Okay, more of that. Well, with that, I'd like to turn to our studio audience and ask who has a question. So thank you for your insights. My question was around, you know, skills that we don't measure. So things like curiosity, risk tolerance, drive, which often drive career outcomes much more than whether someone understands AI or cyber security. And I wonder what we can do as companies to measure those attributes better and then think about how we upskill those attributes that would really drive lifelong learning from the core versus a particular subject matter. Thank you. And can you just identify yourself, please? My name's Brajal. I run a startup call on loop. Thank you. Once to answer. I'll start. Thank you for the question. You know, I think assessment is important and a self-assessment, but also an assessment, 360, you know, type of assessment. And not just for, you know, hypotalent or, you know, executive talent, really democratizing earlier in your career. So you're able to build those skills if there is a gap. And we have so many tools available to us now, digital tools so it's scalable. And I agree with you, you know, you can't be, you know, a full, let's say, people manager, for example, if you've got terrific technical skills, but not great people management skills. So we, you know, we need to bridge that gap with assessment but also action plan, you know, to fill those gaps. Are you finding tech tools that can help you to do that? We're starting to and, you know, to really be able to mine the skills that we already have, right? In our company. Never mind what we need to build. You know, we've got employees for whatever reason, newcomers to Canada that are not credentialed. Yet they have a really good foundation. So having the technology to be able to go in and find those employees and proactively identify opportunities and pathways for them. You know, we're starting to use that more and more. And what about the learning tools for reskilling? How do you integrate that into the everyday work life? More micro learning. You know, so you're pretty much gone are the days where you sit in a classroom for an entire day. It's micro learning. It's while you're in the flow. It's five minutes. It's, you know, questions. It's how confident are you in that answer? So it really does develop a personalized pathway, but it's scalable. And that's more of what we need. I can also add to that we are also combining the changing demand we hear from organizations when we are designing learning journeys, for instance, from organizations. It is very far away from indeed sitting in the classroom all day. We do observe the need for addressing different types of learning styles of individuals. Some prefer really, prefer self-paced learning. Some do want to be sitting in the classroom. Some really enjoy the Zoom environment, whatever you have, right? So there are different learning styles that we're trying to cater. And technology allows us to use a multitude of different things to address these different expectations. So clearly the tech tools are helping, but I want to go back to the Future of Jobs report. If we need to upscale half of the workforce in the next two years, are we moving fast enough? No. No. No. We have work to do. Yeah. And you need momentum and you need real commitment in the industry, not just in your company. Do we have any other questions from the audience? Can you please identify yourself? This is Jorge Cicilia, BVVA. I want to pick on this issue of data mining, because you can imagine that workers have a subset of skills that companies or governments demand a subset of skills. If you had all that information in that digital world and you could follow which skills are people getting that allow them to get a better job, and you have this information across society, I know it's difficult due to lots of issues, including data privacy, but should you have that information, maybe it would be easier for newcomers to know the type of skills they need to learn in order to get a better job. Can we do it better using that? Who wants to take that? Absolutely. Just one very quick comment. I think that's very much related to what you were saying, Jennifer, on, for instance, the role of emotional intelligence in cybersecurity. Communication skills, that is something we would often traditionally not attribute to contributing to success, right? But we now know I have met very interesting individuals who have background in social sciences, who have a background in philosophy, who are very, or psychologists, who are very clear and skilled in emotional intelligence, very good at talking about social engineering, very good at catching social engineering initiatives. So great contributors to cybersecurity awareness trainings, for instance, in organizations. So I absolutely agree with you that this is the separation from what you see on someone's diploma or certification versus what you gain about an individual when you observe them on the job and say, well, this actual particular capability could help you contribute to that side of business, right? So more than the diploma, more than the certification, but also aptitude, interest and other capabilities that we wouldn't expect to contribute, could contribute. I would add curiosity is important. Creativity in tech jobs as well. It's not only about critical thinking, which of course is important. So getting that whole employee is where we'll see the benefit. Would you like to add? Just to add, yeah, in this direction. This is, yeah, curiosity is very important, but in order to see in yourself that, okay, I will be good enough in this or that technology. You have to have, let's say, a common environment drinking coffee with different industries, academia. So, yeah, this is very important for strategies in order to create such kind of open space and bring together government, industry and academia and people interesting in different, let's say, fields in order to have change, to change idea, to have opportunity to talk together and to see the, let's say, opportunity to work and so on. This is very important. Great point. I mean, the exposure to the possibilities can be very inspiring. So as we get close to the end of our session, I'd like to ask each one of the panelists if there is one thing that you would do to help close the science and technology skills gap, what would it be? And I'll start with you. Okay. The two things pop in mind, one I already shared, the language, the changing the language. I guess I would go for more girls in STEM as the second element. This is still a pain point and we still also talk about diversity and inclusion and having more women in technology in general. But in cybersecurity, let me be even more specific. This is an acute issue, really, that we need to foster because we know that it does make a difference. It does bring different perspectives, different capabilities and skill sets on the table. And that starts as early as elementary school. So more girls in STEM. That's what I would do. Great. Lisa? Yeah, I would agree. And also getting proactive rather than chasing and being reactive. So for example, this time last year, we were desperate for employees with Python skills. Right? Now it's integration. It's architecture. So instead of chasing it, when it's behind, it's getting proactive about understanding what the coming needs are. Thank you. Minister, you have the last word. More communication, information, infrastructure, commonplace, yeah. Okay. Well, with that, I'd like to thank our panelists and thank our studio and online audience. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.