 So today I'm really excited to bring my friend Susan winter to chat with us about this topic of About this topic. He's just not that into you and really quickly Susan is someone I admire She has a substantial YouTube channel. She's one of those people that genuinely cares and wants to help people So Susan welcome to this interview or conversation Jonathan thank you and hello all the Jonathanites out there welcome talk to us Let us know what you what your questions are. Yeah, so we're gonna talk about why men won't commit what to do about it And while this is centered around men because my audience are women seeking advice on men This is really true for men and women a lot. Would you agree? Yeah? Yeah, I work with all people men women straight gay all ages and yeah The prep that what we're talking about is universal absolutely Well, I certainly suspect with you know since I deal with more of a heterosexual marketplace There are probably some unique differences for those who people who are in gay and lesbian relationships Certainly those that are cultural differences from different countries at the same time I think human behavior Particularly in the area of childhood wounds and traumas and adult traumas is not I mean not every person is unique to themselves But it's still one of the common reasons why people struggle with commitment Exactly because of their original template and you know, that's why you're an advocate for people doing their own work Working on themselves. So we can work on ourselves a lot and be very knowledgeable and women are really really good at this You know women women mullet over. We listen to his message 40 times Ask our friends what they thought what did he mean? Why did they do it with journal? We meditate we go to the therapist, you know guys traditionally like oh, yeah Broke up. I don't know. She was crazy get a beer. It's done and they tend to not process But you're in california. So you're a different animal. Yeah Wondrous station with the california men are like, oh, I felt like I was really not seen and I need to establish my boundaries I'm like, oh, okay Do you know you remind that I mean you remind me of that episode on friends where Rachel and ross kissed and they and the girls are getting together to talk about it And they're like, oh my god, this is such a big event and like we need to get like do we need to get tissues? Let me get a glass of wine and all this and then you pan to the guy's apartment and ross says So I kissed her and he's like then the guy saved tongue and he go. Yeah, you know, like that's the so the differences between men and women in the area of Maybe processing Maybe women do that They process the relationship. Maybe over and over again Different than men. How about actually healing their childhood wounds and their traumas over relationship? Do you think women do a better job or is it, you know, equally poor with for both genders? I think when we hit a hot wire, we all freak out Yeah, no matter how much we know and how much therapy we have But I Okay, so I'm I don't know that I've ever talked to you about this, but okay I have this inherent belief that if done beautifully consciously and intentionally We could utilize The actual relationship that we are in to assist our healing because oh We are gonna bump up next to somebody that we were attracted to not for nothing childhood You know attachment stuff going on and we're gonna bump up next to them and if we had the vocabulary to send to That brought up something in me. I'm working through it. I know it did the exact opposite for you Here we stand. Can we heal together? That wouldn't that be amazing if you trigger me? I trigger you, but we're both aware of it Because that's the sacred relationship that we're talking about in a higher evolution of what I believe why we have relationships We so and then we could have co co healing right So I'm in full agreement that one of the challenges in relationship is is the is the languaging to use And it's interesting because communication is often, you know, everyone says how important communication is important communication is but really it's it's having the tools to Communicate in a way that's to be seen heard and understood And you made a really good point I want to piggyback on and I've learned this in my new relationship and it's not new We're almost celebrating a year together now um I did a lot of personal development self-help spiritual work before I met her I recognize my patterns of Of my and my my patterns of my limiting beliefs my negative self-talk that that I worked on a lot before I met her I worked on my attachment style now that i'm in this relationship I'm actually still budding up against the residue Of all the work I did and this particular relationship. We don't trigger each other to run away You know Then we actually lean in to work on those little it's like they're healing the residue that's left over from our past Am I making sense? It is not only it's brilliantly stated the word residue You know, I had a friend once who said We talked about issues and triggers and he said because we were in this Adult children of alcoholics Okay rehab together trying to heal from the experience with our parents and he said susan I think the best we can do Is to get it to go from an alarm a fire alarm Down to a doorbell ringing Interesting isn't that cool and I said yeah yeah so so Okay, so You talked about the languaging I oftentimes recommend the book non-violent communication by marshal rozenberg Okay um, I I wish the title was called compassionate communication Because what I observed within couples and you know, we're talking about why people don't commit I think we have A lot of human beings out there that are rather dysfunctional in relationship They enter in with another person to get companionship connection and sex or maybe occasional companionship occasional connection occasional sex, but there's not a real intentionality To build a relationship with someone do you see the same thing in your practice? Well, from a female perspective here in female clients They struggle to Get a relationship that is agreeable and So we talked about and it's a stereotype. So forgive me, but generally speaking that men are less Able to articulate their feelings Okay, I've been taught not to Pity backed on that's this generation Like 40 and above Yeah under that you've got people that can't Communicate can't even look at each other eye to eye Now you've got a double impactful thing and Nobody's really talking about it. So there seems to be a general Attrition as far as the quality of communication and you are correct The way in which the political It's like diplomatic tactful elegant Expression of what we are feeling Okay, so difficult. You've got to have restraint. You've got to think it through you've got to know Exactly what are the things that I need to say because now here from a female You know this johnathan we go into this bubble of 500 words and you're like, what that? What is the point? What did she Exactly Dress and then we're you don't know where what's the point and and we do that I know so communication skills. It sounds so boring But I know so I did my first ever group class and the last five weeks was communication. I realized By the way, I'm going to put my headset on because people are saying they can't hear me so well So they're why I hear you here. I'm sorry that they can't But I I think I think we underestimate it's not a sexy title non combative communication or communication compassionate communication for relationships is better but the Necessity to once we know what we're feeling Be able to express what we're feeling in a way that doesn't trigger our partner into defensiveness Running away deflection shutting down. That's an art in itself So where do people go to get help for that? Like how do you help? I mean because I'm not an expert at communication and what I mean to say Well, I can model it in and certainly when I bring marie on to our video She models it because she's really great at At what I speaking her truth, you know in a kind loving way But that's not something that you know, like we're not taught that No, no, no, we're we're not taught to be diplomatic and tactful I mean people have two responses. You either repress it Doubt that you're feeling it not sure and take the cues from your partner Or you feel something feel fearful which translates into anger and you get reactive and blame them So those tend to be the two. I mean look at television. What do we see all day long? How many how many examples do you see of somebody having great communication on tv? Yeah, I mean just in movies The whole the whole premise of romantic movies is they love each other. They don't say it till the end I'm sorry. I'm interrupting but they're scripted in the movies. That's all someone is writing their dialogue for us We don't have anyone writing our dialogue for us. I I do I I have to be honest with you. I technically write the things for my clients to say And they come back and go. Oh my god But we you can do it too and we have. Oh, no, I do that for clients. I we have the luxury of Observation not being emotionally in it when you're in the middle of it To try to articulate those things is a whole nother ballgame Right to know how to say it I had to practice a dialogue with a lady whose dog aggressed against nika Not because she was a bad dog Their their cords got caught together and nika couldn't get away. I couldn't be a good dog mom. Anyway, I had to practice How can I say this to her to not piss off a neighbor? Keep good relationships and teach her that you need to train your dog So I had to I had to practice in my head And I my heart was pounding and then I called her But you would do the same with a partner. You're like, okay, what do I need to say? How can I say it? How can I say so they can hear it? That's the that's the art in the translation So my partner can knowing their disposition How can I weave that conversation in? So they hear me without getting reactive and want to help me work on this so we can get to conflict resolution Okay, so let me ask you since you know, we titled this, you know Why men over 40 won't commit and what to do about it is is part of the issue you see for men Not committing centered around communication Is there something deeper than that that's actually happening for the over 40 crowd? Horrible. Yeah, it's hard It's hard It's hard to be in a relationship Yeah Honestly, yeah, they want easy They won't hurt us men Crave that I don't know who told them that maybe porn taught them that their mom taught them that because they were wonderful I do not know but most men want a Buddy Yeah, it's their activities. Yeah, look sexy Yeah, great sex with them And then we'll shut up maybe cook I mean really if you really really ask them what they really want. Yeah, and I think the Dialogue about oh honey, I'm feeling this or I'm doing that. It's just like, oh god the penance I have to pay to be in this right and I think Right, they think it's hard Oh, it's so hard to be with a woman. I have to keep her happy. It's so hard I had to you know show up at that cocktail party and I had to smile Oh, it's so hard. I had to listen to her when she was upset and oh, it's so hard because I don't think We as humans ever had a class in grade school That taught us how to communicate negotiate get what we want and respect the other person's opinion I don't think we did that, you know, you brought up something I want to touch upon because you're right We're not taught how to be in relationship and all we have is the modeling we saw Growing up with our parents and oftentimes, I mean, it's funny with my parents All I remember as a child was all the bad things that happened in their marriage I don't really remember all the loving that happened. I mean, I didn't pay attention till I was an adult but um, I to the extent that men um Want it easy Well, I would agree with that. I would say yes, I want it easy. I don't want an easy relationship Most ever I think over 40 though I think the real issue for the older demographic is when we're in our 20s and 30s Many of us are on the hunt for a wife. In other words, the mother of our children And for whatever reason that marriage dissipates. Okay, and by the way 70 70% of divorces are initiated by women So it's the women ending it because they weren't getting their needs met. Here's what happens what I think men over 40 If they're not on the hunt for a wife, they want companionship. They want connection. They want sex But they're not really looking at it from the perspective of a teammate I think that's the real issue with men is both they want it easy for sure But there's there's not a recognition of the value of having a teammate in your life You know, am I making sense? Jonathan, this is why every woman loves you that watches We're like, can we please clone you? Clone I mean they do tons of stuff with AI. They're doing genetic research Forget the sheet. We need you. Okay. Okay. Well, thank you. We started with Polly. Now we got you But another thing and Okay, I have to say this because I absolutely love men. I might be one of the few females That truly loves and I think I understand men Um, there is another thing Okay, divorced men. Okay, bear with me, but anyone dating knows I'm talking about I believe when a man makes a commitment in his first marriage He walks down that aisle and he mentally goes. Okay, this is it. I'm closing the door to everything else and creates a family And children and a wife when that dream is shattered for reasons that he didn't understand why they got there And that dream dies a part of him wanting to ever love again dies I have been so mortally wounded and shut down like that hurt me I'm not going there again And I see a lot of these gals dating men that have had divorces that It's like the last tear they keep trying to knock on that door Like the last bit of I know he loves me and he won't give it up Because he's so terrified because he does he didn't get the help he needed So when they lose the dream for a man, it is so shattering. He's lost his purpose protect provide my family He feels and then he's in what not little crummy apartment someplace and his wife's got the big house And then he gets resentment. So then he finds his way to these men's groups That him to treat us like a rubber doll and throw us out Yeah, and then he's fodder for those groups that inherently hate women because they're unhealed so Well, I want to as a man I want to say that I agree to the extent that when I It's funny in the movie bronx tail Uh, one of the characters who's kind of a mob person says we men have three loves in our lives Okay, and and I I to some degree Kind of can relate to that because in my when I got married that was technically my first love and it was really I was supposed to marry a woman to be the mother of my children So I had that that that programming running in my head and when that relationship ended You know, I I was out playing. I was having a good time I was I was a serial dator and such like that because there was this new freedom Out there and then I met another woman who I really cared for but I was really still rather emotionally Messed up And that's when I began doing personal development self-open spiritual work So now that I've met this partner I'm now in a better position to love because I'm not sure I might have had attachment in the past But I I do agree when a man loves someone deeply and it doesn't work out I believe they become very gun shy for a period of time And if they if they haven't healed That's gonna that could last decades I agree. You made the active choice as a man to heal yourself for yourself. But More times than not We're we're here intentionally dating talking about consciously healing ourselves Johnson you understand the segment of the population that's like it's too much. I just want to improve my golf game, you know I mean, it's it's this is what I mean when I say it's hard It's so do you think it's hopeless for women? I mean, do you think it's going to be impossible because I do believe good men exist I know good men exist. I work with them It's my fact I work with somebody men that one point Lauren and I wondered if I should Specialize in it, but I'm going to tell you in every female in your Channel needs to hear this when a man loves a woman He will pay anything to get it, right? He will do anything to get her back He will walk across glass on fire to get that woman that he loves and I know that to be true And it's heartbreaking when I hear the stories and I know she's not in it for the right reasons Or that it's not going to happen Okay, so So let's differentiate between the men who Are, you know, they're in relationship with you But the difference between the guy who's just in it for themselves versus the guys that will walk through glass There is a difference between the two. What do you see the difference? Like how can a woman recognize the guy who's going to walk over glass versus the guy that just wants their own needs met Easy, it's easy Okay They are a man of character And true integrity that is woven throughout every aspect of their personality. Okay, there is an inherent I have If and when I go online I go on for like a day. I'm like, oh, I don't want to do this anymore But okay number one sentence I say is I am looking for a true gentleman of character and substance and I figure A real guy who knows who he is Well, yeah, well You know next But a guy that goes, uh Because I think There are so if I had to say one thing to look for Okay, without everything one thing I would say look for a fine human being The person who couldn't be cruel if they wanted to like it they might have to make a business move But it's uncomfortable for them to fire people It's not there, you know, they're not the person to go cut off a car and gloat over it, you know, there's somebody who Do you know what I mean? They're an initially I know I don't want to say moral like there are moral values, but they have a code that they live by That kind of person it if it is woven through their whole personality and they're not just cherry picking You know like it serves me well because I look good in front of my community to say To say I do this right I give to children or I go to church, but it's really in them how they live At least you've got some good material to work with even if they haven't consciously gone to therapy or anything about it They would be more incentivized To come back to harmony to go through conflict to get to resolution I had a client who had a blind date with a man and the one thing she knew about him ahead of time Was um, she got fixed up obviously was that he gave a kidney to a total stranger Oh my goodness, and so like to me somebody who does that and I mean, that's something But yes, that's over the top, but you know what? So he's here here. She is she was a highly successful woman made Substantial about a money and he was struggling financially and she talked to me about it and said Jonathan I'm struggling with the fact that he's not at my level And I said but he's a man of character So she gave him a chance and and guess what now he basically runs her life She gets to run the business and he takes care of everything else and he's not a beta male. He's a contractor He's on a baseball league. He is very loving and devoted to her But she had to overcome that he wasn't at my level and what I said was his character Madden more than your level. I love Jonathan. I love that and can we talk about this for a second? Sure, sure many of your females are going to have far greater resources than the men they are meeting That can create disharmony in the man and he can feel emasculated by that. However We have this huge social mantle of like, you know, she won She picked well. She got top brass ring and it is such I mean You are looking for the person who will be there when you have the mastectomy not the guy who's going to run away Yeah for the person who's going to pick. You know how I choose today Not the hot one that's chasing me around the gym. I think who's going to be there after my colonoscopy sitting in that Who's going to be waiting for me and by my side, right? By the way, I took I took marie to get a colonoscopy and I was there afterwards I always say will that person be there for you to wipe the vomit off your face when you're going through chemotherapy to me That's what matters more than but but we are look at let's we talked about something before we began We're talking about the aging how you know the aging of america and and how there's a judgment around aging and looking good And and such and that Women are they you we talked about is are they at a disadvantage when they hit 50 or 60 years old? And you and I talked about that for a moment. Do you want to expand upon what we talked about? Well, I think Most women who've been online feel seen Because if they list their real most women feel compelled to cheat and say that they are the age that they look Only they have to reveal to a guy who could then double slap them because he did like the way they look But now he doesn't like the truth about their age and then he'll do me once So we're up against a jam because youth and beauty Have been the hallmark of desirability and at one point in time. Unfortunately our virginity I think we passed that in 21st century. Yeah, most definitely Beauty were the selling points Now we have financial resources and we are we can have a complete We can have a seat at the table and we can be much more multi-dimensional However, the world has not evolved to the point that they've released us from this insane thing about our age In the equation of our worth and we feel it and we fight against it We may not we may know i'm a hell of a person. I'm a great woman worth dating, but there is that The same Social mantle that weight of the messaging that was given to your lady friend who finally overwrote it. You know, we got to be So by the way for the record my sweetheart, there's a picture of her and I she's a year older than me So I didn't go 10 20 30 years younger. So I want you to know I went to a wedding Three weeks ago. Uh, the woman was 63 and he was he's actually Uh too much younger than her so he dated he's with an older woman in fact Number of my friends my circle of friends the women are actually somewhere between one year and less than one year older Um, and these are all people that got married within the last 10 years. So while There is we talked about there's the fear. There's the actual judgment that does occur There's no doubt that occurs Right, but I think also women who overcome the fear of that judgment Do better in the dating realm than those that are stuck with a story that I won't be chosen because I'm too old Do you agree with that? You nailed it Absolutely, that's exactly the point because it's the energy we carry with us You know There will be there will be guys that will swipe and swipe because there is still of the thinking that I'm not looking for totality. I'm looking for externals and you want them to swipe past you Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly That's not if you're a woman of substance and you want to bring the whole of you to the party Not just that this and jump into bed Then you need them to feel that for you to feel incentivized even connect with them So good. It's a filtering process Okay, I'm filtering and I remember you did a video not too long ago talking about filtering. Hey, um So really quickly I've noticed some questions come in. Do you mind if we scroll through or I'm going to go through some other questions? I think we could Let's see bear with me one second Um And it I don't know how to pronounce her name artist wrote I have an experience where the guys Past relationship willingly pursue women who are in relationships. I wonder if that gives them trouble to have healthy And commitment to relationships. I think what she's saying is Women who are still pursuing men while they're in other relationships. Do you have you seen that in your practice? No, normally when they're in one and they're happy with it. They're not hunting Yeah No, but other women other women hunting for the guy who's in a relationship Of course. Oh, oh because We know a man's status Elevates when another woman validates. He's worth partnering with So kind of like trying to like oh have a guy with a child in the park every woman wants that guy Children The dog. Yeah, so it's interesting and I would like your take on the following because marie and I were talking about this In a recent video she and I shot there were some women who wrote some really cruel things about marie In the video and I was in the comment section. I was really disappointed with that Um, and she you know, she brushes a lot. She has no issues. I'm the protector I'm like I want to protect you from this and she goes look jonathan women can be caddy And you know, I I don't see my male friends doing the same thing. I've noticed with women And this is I'm not trying to point out a flaw. But do you think women can be caddy to other women? We have been taught that each other we have okay, let's go back. This is historic jonathan and It was a reality of survival You had men who were the only source Of attaining a life so you wouldn't be putting a nunnery a seamstress or a prostitute I mean you had to marry you women got their first credit card when I was watching Walter Cronkite In my television the first woman in history By the way, I was only laughing because I remember Walter Cronkite not because of what you're saying. So, okay Okay, so a woman didn't have a credit card in her own name until the 1960s Yeah, you you couldn't have property in the 1900s. I mean, you know So we competed with each other For survival innately In native it was like part of the deal But now We are the breadwinners and we are outpacing men in colleges. But again We haven't caught up with we had centuries of this nonsense It's hard to shake it loose. But I think the younger generations are much more collaborative And I think that will come about but marie your woman Yeah, gets every mark of How do I say this? Irritating another woman. Yeah, okay. Hmm interesting Accomplished Yeah, no agenda wants you because she wants you She's a very very very successful woman who chose the man of her dreams Yeah And so remember we do not have a template when was the last time you watched a movie or a television show with a Woman who was gorgeous physically intelligent Immensely intelligent beautiful and generous warm and successful We have two dimensions that we see repeat Okay, full cold hearted bitch Yeah Boys yearning for love but can't get it because she's cold and the warm sweet beautiful thing That's a bit of an idiot in love. We don't even help. I was thinking of devil wears Prada when you said that It's the underachiever with a good heart. She can't get it right or the cold one You know, look at what and every time we have anything like this. We keep reinforcing that It's going to take even more generations for women to get over this thing. Okay, and realize that We are just looking for one man One man who sees us That's it. Yeah, and and in all fairness to women as well because I'm in full agreement to what you just shared You know men play a role in this too because there's a lot of jackass men out there. There are a lot of men who play Oh, yeah, believe me Well, you know, you and I like to talk about the you know, that probably the small percentage of population that's done healing the small percentage of population that works on Uh, communicating better at the same time, you know, men can be like I said men can be jackasses too And I and I'm always like, you know, my channel is I'm the big brother, you know, I'm trying to protect women from the bad I know Men can and by the way for your very successful women who are of a certain age who feel rejected by certain men There's another part of it. It's actually coming from their wound. They don't feel like they have anything to offer you Oh, we never consider and and in a way I understand men enough To know that when they look at a successful beautiful woman, not only are they intimidated not because they dislike you They're trying to think well, what would she want with me? I can't do anything for her So men are in a bit of a quandary nowadays And that's where our success oftentimes looks like a double-edged sword because we did it for ourselves We want to achieve something and we can't coddle them if they're not feeling good enough We can't be less so they will feel like more But at the same time We have to understand that they're desperately trying to find how can I be How can I serve her? How can I be her king? How can I be something in her life? If she's got every box checked off I will say I am guilty of what you just talked about I have in the past and I was in a relationship where I put a woman up on a pedestal And I thought I was less than because she had more status. She had more prestige She had been tell this is before my youtube channel took off and I was in the beginning of my business Um, and she was on television and I and she didn't intimidate me I I don't like the frame that a man is intimidated by a woman I felt less than on my own. She didn't do anything other than I projected that she was better than me And I know even in dating. I've done the same thing. I thought oh, she lives in a nicer home She drives a nicer car. She has nicer clothes I've projected that she isn't going to want me Because she might have more status than me now I've learned since then that that's just a story made up in my head talking about the men You talked about but I'm guilty of that. I can I can relate But Jonathan we both Male and female carry this heavy burden. It's a double locking system I've written about this women are trapped in that I must Get the highest rung to do well. Oh, she did well in life God be like I have to be the biggest guy so that I can take care of her You know, it's changing now and and it's hard for us to let go of Sometimes in order to be with our true love, we got to walk against society and we've got to have certain people go Oh, really? He does that or you know, well, he doesn't make what kind of car does he drive? He works You got to deal with that stuff Do you ever watch netflix has a show called indian matchmaker? I watched the first series of it. Okay, so so the new season came out just a couple days ago And I love this this a woman this the the matchmaker is like look if you get 60 percent of what you want You should be happy and looks is the least important thing on the list But you know like she's like look, you know, you're looking for character and all these things So when we can get out of our own way when we get out of our head and into our heart That's actually the space to really connect with someone by the way We have another question that came in so vicki writes question By the way, folks, if you have a question write the word question and post the question thereafter What is the best way to heal from a abandonment wound at age 12 a boy? I like just rejected me one day I'm now 48 and I seem to only attract guys who are emotionally unavailable. What are your thoughts susan Sweetie you were 12 Boys didn't want relationships then they wanted to play with a softball. He didn't know what to do with you It doesn't it had I I okay, I would if you haven't gone to therapy definitely go Yeah To somebody you trust but the way you framed that you see children. I did this too. I got my things too So not a reprimand. I want to be really clear. I still got stuff in me that I catch We children have a concrete vision we see things in black and white and at 12 You're kind of on the cusp, but you could have seen that as the truth This is the truth and into your child mind Or you know, you're not fully developed yet. You you realize you thought you made a conclusion that this is the truth about me Yeah, we have to as jonathan did with his life after You know his marriage we have to go through these old tapes and read them and say is that true today And again a kid 12. He didn't know what he was doing. He didn't reject you He wanted to go play softball with his buddies So I I believe also I'm gonna piggyback on what you said I believe every Bit of rejection we experience in our life is an opportunity To love ourselves like that's really like I think it's almost god's little trick going Okay, I'm gonna send you someone who's gonna reject you and abandon you because I want you to love yourself I'm gonna send you another emotionally unavailable man. So you're gonna love yourself I'm gonna send you that emotionally constipated man. So you can love yourself, okay? And when you love yourself just enough, you know, it's not this whole thing You have to love yourself to love another you know when you begin loving yourself. Guess what god will do We'll start sending you guys that are a little bit nicer more character Now you got to get out of your own way not to reject the guy that you know might be balding or whatever Now your challenge the very difficult thing is somebody who actually is good to you That's exactly Oran Yeah, and then you're gonna reject that because you're used to the emotionally constipated Oh, what do we do? He's so loving and kind All right, we have another question from Nicole. Let's hear what she has to say question for those of us That have dysfunctional family origins. My father was married four times and my mother's been married five times How does someone with a toxic family of origin not scare a guy away? Yeah I I'm assuming susan what she's saying is if I share the story of my parents That's gonna scare a guy away, but I don't really think that's an issue. I think there's something else Yeah, you're right. Okay It takes a lot of intuition to see through, you know, three or four sentences First of all, the story of your family is not the story of you In my understanding, although that's been your template When children are given that heavy a dose it is almost to piggyback on what you said earlier a spiritual message like I Don't want that. I want better My desire is better. I'm gonna make that happen because I certainly know I don't want that So you've probably never been more incentivized Then to have a healthy relationship because you see the price when it's not so I don't think that is being against you I see that as being the thing that propels you forward This is how we get our life purpose our life going every Every desire is born of a challenge And and that's what all these challenges are for hard in the middle of it. Oh, yeah, love the pain Oh, thank you life for your challenge. But you know, it is true So, you know, it's interesting most everyone in my channel knows I lost a child And and I'm bringing this up because some people will say that's the most terrific thing That's happened in your life and and I can tell you that I've had other things that feel equally as challenging And my point and bringing this up is we all have Challenges that happened in our lives, whether it's in this particular case having parents who've been married four or five times Each one of them somebody's had a different issue. We've all have challenges the real question piggybacking on what you said is Have we overcome the emotional trauma that we experience and are we going to excel because I made a promise to my son when he passed away I knew he wanted me to live my most, you know, authentic happy life So in his honor, I'm not letting that take me down and my advice for anyone any challenge you have Was an opportunity for you to grow as a person going forward. That's just my take on that Um, we got another question. This is a good one. Um, bear with me a second Susan I I'm so overwhelmed by your technical command. I Okay artist joys Says question I guess how much can you heal together before it becomes too much to handle or is it unrealistic to give up easily? Ooh, that's an interesting question Um, well, can I I'm going to jump in on this one I believe that I Marie and I both did quite a bit of work before we We met I did the Hoffman process. I did insight into she did life spring when she was 19 She did the naked just she did something called naked divorce to heal after her divorce I did other things Now that we're together It's really I remember I said earlier the residue Yeah, we're just we're learning to love differently than we were taught as you know, what we Observed as children and I think the residue comes up But we we lean to love because we made a commitment to each other I think if you had a ton of healing to do with someone That might be overwhelming It might be exhausting and I would agree and maybe that's meant to take you to the next level Not for this relationship. That's just my two cents on that one It could be that the The person that sent this message Feels as though they are constantly working Oh, got it trying to get to everything you said plus another You know because we're guessing here. We've got a couple sentences. So we're exactly patient so another thing is Are you spending all your time trying to just get to Calm or functional and if every bit of your day is them going through their issues and you going through your issues That gets very heavy. Yeah Point of it is as jonathan said you go from this big Ball of this to it should be diminishing and you should be seeing progress in your relationship Meaning more peaceful happy agreeable moments and less crises. This is this is the sign of A relationship that's on the right track So we have another question I want to take but I have an observation. I want your opinion on this So I see relationships tend to take off with all this, you know, oh my god It's like romance and lovey-dovey and it's all perfect And then once you're in all of a sudden the real issues start coming up about issues about finances Issues about snoring issues about you know, if you're living together You know how they do daily life together. So it's kind of fascinating You know, it's not we go from this bad to good Oftentimes it starts good and it starts becoming bad and I'm going to this is how I would like to everyone to address this Don't sweep anything under the rug The most important time to address things is right when it happens So you can overcome them and the more little barriers you overcome in your relationship the stronger the relationship becomes I love that if you can identify it Yeah, clearly figure out what the point is that you want to say to your partner Do it diplomatically in a way that it is a neutral manner If you if you can work on how you communicate And and then let them know they're not bad or wrong It's just something that happened and can you find another way to do it? I think that's brilliant We've all tried to ignore it Uh for the relationship like okay. I'm you know what I'm not going to I don't want to make a big deal out of it Early days. I don't want to ruffle anybody's feathers. Yeah Okay, we got another question from charlene. Thank you for that one Susan. So Question can you give us three small things we can do to attract a good man or I'm going to say good man or woman So I'd like to hear your three things and I'll give you three things Well one I did Well, first of all for you Really know exactly what you want to experience in this relationship And do the mental work of imagining how you want to feel in the relationship. Yeah I think that'll guide you more purposefully to Choose to be aware Of somebody you might not have had on your radar That could could be the one so that's going to help you I think in your selection process Yeah to find an inherently good person And three find somebody who wants what you want and they want it with you So I'm going to piggyback on yours because I think first I mean, let's be real one of the challenges you have to be seen By a single eligible person to get a date you have to be physically seen in other words, you know, it's it's not if you're Some huh? You have to see you so so somehow you either have to put yourself out there and more importantly Put the best representation of yourself out there if you were trying to get a job with the the company of your dreams Would you show up in pajamas and with a resume that was all crinkled up or would you? You know, would you get dressed up and put the best foot forward? So I think first is put yourself out there and the piggyback on that Put the best version of yourself out there to be seen and and i'm not saying going overboard I don't mean small mini skirts or things like that Okay, number two and you said this and I have to piggyback on this I think women are rather clueless on what they want. They all come to me and coaching jonathan I know what I want. I know what I want. I know what I want and then they go through this proprietary coaching program I created and they say every single time. Oh my god. I now realize I now know what I want I it's always a lot of for a lot of women and remember men want it easy We get that piece but women have a fantasy of what it's supposed to look like and they created a box And that box they never end up with that box. They end up with someone different So and then the third piece I always talk about vetting You got to ask the right questions to determine. Is he a player? Is he a serial monogamous? Is a serial data is a nice guy a bad boy or the person looking for you? You got to ask good questions, which you talked about. So anyways, those are my three things. So charlene. Thank you for that question charlene So roller girl said jonathan, I love that jonathan said rejection so we can love ourselves more exactly patricia writes question Does it make you a bad person for wait? Does it make you a bad person for a good relationship if you've been married multiple times? You know, you said something earlier like it used to be a woman's value as a virgin I'm like, well, that's that ship has long, you know, sailed us by you know for them Yeah in this generation. So I think most people are used to multiple relationships or multiple marriages I mean, are we talking 15 or 20? Are we talking? No, what I'm gonna assume Someone's been married four times. That could be a red flag. I think if someone's been married twice I think we did it seven times. Yeah, so uh, and larry king. I think was married eight times. So Younger women they kept dying Yeah, and leonardo de caprio the minute he takes them to a an event. She's already too old But I think I think the judgment we see Probably does more damage than the judgment someone else sees Yeah, I At that point I think I'd say Why am I marrying? Um at a certain age We really don't need to do that. It is a litigious issue for children Step kids. I mean you're just walking into a mess Unless it is deeply against your religion not to marry. I would suggest as Some somebody over 40 who's had your kids Um, why don't you think about creating a partnership? Possibly dating for a while being exclusive living together Yeah, and I've seen if marriage is the right choice you might be somebody Inherently that though you think you want forever you really don't And this is a big realization for people You may know what is great for this time segment and when you're done you're done And I know that that defies the I want one person for the rest of my life But there are a number of people that are realizing this about themselves And so to marry is a that's a lot of expense and time and cumbersome getting out It's a lot to get into So, you know in my particular case we live together and and I jokingly say I'm the one who wants to get married And she doesn't we and I say that tongue-in-cheek. I think what we have is an agreed partnership We we operate in our relationship like a partnership and and maybe someday that might turn into marriage That may not okay, but what's most important is each day we invest in this partnership now if for whatever reason One person wants out or maybe someone you know wants out for an altruistic reason One of us gets sick and the other person says I want to leave so I don't want to be a burden on you, which you know, you don't By the way, I think if either one of us said that we might say that but I think we'd still want to stay um, the point is Marriage is not the end all be all Per se that says I think what matters most is do we treat each other like teammates with one another Do we treat each other like partners with one another? Do we co-create together? Is this a mutual? Uh effort in the relationship that to me has way more weight than whether or not you have the paper But I do believe living together. I'm going to say something about living together You really get to know another human being when you live together with them, you know And by the way, a lot of people they could have been dating for five years Live together and it could blow up in a matter of weeks You know or months because that's when you really get to know someone is when you live together We okay, so some 25 years ago. I was talking about evolutionary designs and how to create Okay relationship. That's right for your disposition. So I think we are at the point in time where We are I think it would be serve us better if we looked at the agreements that we create between ourselves Jonathan has done And you look at your life and you you operate by an agreement for how you want to live together knowing who you are and what What dynamic gives us the greatest quality of relationship and satisfaction? Yes, people I know have been married and like, um, I'm in the southwest now And so if you have somebody that lives in scott's dill their partner may be in twosome, which is now we're in a half away Yeah, sometimes the guys will say Honey, I think it's time. We live together and the lady'll go baby. I love you But you know what I love about this I come to you every weekend you come to me I've got the whole week to work and when you and I are together on the weekend Everything stops and I can totally pay attention to you and I can handle my business and my life It don't want it the other way, but that is an individual decision So we have this incredible moment in time where we have the freedom to understand what works for us presents to our partner and does this work for you and always as you said be open to amending that For a greater evolution of where we want to go. Hey, this is really good. We lovely We can get married. Yeah, I'm all for it. No, I like it the way it is. What do you think? So you've just talked about something called living together apart There was a book I read on that and and I'm a big proponent of but what I what I like about that I said, but I want to retract about what I like about it is it's agreements again Whether you get married whether you live together whether you live together apart or even if you're in a relationship where you're see I think ultimately It's about being conscious and intentional about why are we doing this and and to some degree How long do we want to do this? Do we want to do this till the day we die? And and no matter what it looks like living together apart living together a marriage At least choose someone who wants to partner with you that to me and wants to be a teammate otherwise The other alternative is casual relationships and friends with benefits and there's nothing wrong with that But when one person wants more and then it's an imbalance in the agreement oftentimes and and if we a huge proponent of Baking growth and flexibility into the relationship from the beginning The reason that are so so many marriages have failed as of the 1970s and onward is that it was rigid structure with rules and roles And it did not allow for an expanding consciousness So it had to be broken. Wouldn't it be better if we did one of those? Up to whoopie whoopie whoopie You feel your trash bag and you're like it's not going to take any more and it goes more If we build a relationship that was able to flex and give as we grow Then we have a dynamic alive Vehicle that carries aren't the cradles our love as we grow as individuals to give And and that Requires communication consciousness union and it's like where do we go from here honey because it Growing relationships that stay alive and flourish are always open to new conversations about how what do you think about this? How do you want to say that this is great? I love this Right, that's how they grow Exactly Well, sweetheart, uh, if you don't mind that term of endearment Uh Okay, thank you You know, I made a promise to you to because you had to run at noon So I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate you joining for this discussion I'd like to have you on maybe in a few months. We do it again. By the way folks In the link below is a link to susan's channel. I highly recommend following her She's got she's got a great channel. Her titles are more specific to what's going on Which I you know, which is uh very niche and there's a lot of value in that so check out the link You know what? I'm talking about sweet. I feel like I lived in the 1800s and wrote treatise on mechanical technology from the perspective It's not very sexy. I don't have that down So however with that said I always tune in because you have great content I want everyone to start following susan on her channel. She does great I'm so grateful that you came in to talk about this conversation and let's do this again. Is that okay with you Jonathan, I adore you, you know, it is so refreshing and I know your audience will back me up in that to have a solid credible voice of wisdom and guidance in these very confusing times where there are there are thousands of voices and Much of it's regurgitated not thought just repeated and yours is very novel very current very new And and always growing as well and thoughtful and heart-based So please know that I appreciate you immensely and really count myself lucky to have you in my corner and as a colleague Well, thank you. Well, can I reach into the camera and give you a big gigantic hug? All right everyone, we're gonna say goodbye. You stay on have a great day. I want to thank you all for being on so I'm gonna Wrap up this broad