 Welcome to American Issues Take One. I'm Tim Apachele, your host. And today's title for the show is Some Nations Support Putin, also MAGA GOP. In March, 2022, the United, the UN took a resolution vote on the Ukraine invasion, Putin's war. And out of the vote, 141 nations voted to deplore Putin's invasion of Ukraine. 35 nations abstained from the vote and four supported the Kremlin in its invasion. But we know there's a lot more countries that are either directly helping Putin and his invasion or indirectly. And we're gonna talk about those nations, but more importantly, there's physical ways of supporting a country that's purchasing oil or sending weapons. But there's the moral contribution, how people can help Russia in this effort. And that's the MAGA GOP, which we saw some inklings of here recently from House Speaker Kevin McCarthy and his proclamation that no longer will, there'd be blank checks written for Ukraine. We'll talk about that and more. I'd like to introduce my guests. Today we have our special, special guest, Chuck Crumpton. We have, of course, always my co-host, Jay Fidel. And last but not least, our contributor, Cynthia Lies and Claire. Good morning, everyone. Morning, Tim. You know, Jay, in the intro, I just mentioned, there's ways that these countries are helping Vladimir Putin, specifically China with their purchases of oil. Iran recently has been identified, I believe, by the CIA as the ones that are supporting them with the deadly drones that's causing a lot of damage to Ukraine's infrastructure system, power plants, electric plants. And what are we seeing from these countries? What are the explicit things they're doing to help Putin and maybe some of the behind-the-scenes activities that these countries are doing to help Vladimir Putin in his invasion? Well, we know that they're supplying mercenaries through the Wagner group. We know that. That goes beyond the countries that you mentioned as part of the four that, you know, opposed aid to Ukraine or condemnation of Russia in the United Nations. But there may be other things too. There may be espionage. There may be sharing of intelligence. We really don't know. Suffice to say is a good guess to say that they're doing something else besides buying oil and gas. And then there's the moral thing. It's depressing to find that these countries are opposing the United States position, at least the current United States position. We can talk about that. And that they are supporting a psychopathic dictator. That's really troublesome. And the reason why, of course, is that Putin is influencing them. He's influencing countries in Africa, Latin America, and elsewhere in the world, either through economic pressure or intimidation or who knows what, leader by leader. But he's been undermining their moral suasion, their norms, and it's regrettable that the world does not universally, unanimously condemn him. You know, I mentioned Iran, giving their drone technology to, it's not really technology, they're pretty basic drones, but they're quite effective. Their Kamikaze drones and Vladimir Putin has taken advantage of that offer and is doing quite well with those drones. But how should we look at Belarus? Remember, they allowed Russian troops to stage in their country. There was a staging area before the invasion took place in February. They've allowed Russia to fire missiles from their sovereign soil. They've conscripted doctors to impress them into service to take care of the Russian wounded. That article is just coming out. They've allowed the refueling dump areas for Russia. And they've allowed Russian jets over their airspace. To what degree do we say Belarus is really a very close access power to Russia and should we be treating it as such? That's a delicate question. In fact, what's his name, Lujchenko? Yes, President Lujchenko. He's a puppet of Putin. He's been a puppet of Putin for a long time and he has allowed this sort of thing for a long time. Maybe we haven't focused sufficiently on it to reveal it spotlighted for the world. The last I saw on it though is that Putin could have his way with Lujchenko on anything but boots on the ground. And that's the standard here. Whatever Putin wants, Putin gets from Belarus except Lujchenko has said no to allow to use his military in the war. That's not a big deal in the sense that Belarus doesn't have a military. I think the total number of troops is something 40, 50,000. It's really small stuff. So Putin is really getting all he can from Lujchenko and Belarus. Let me ask you this. Is it time for the EU and the United States to consider sanctions against Belarus? I think anyone who cooperates with Putin and offers him this kind of assistance and no question about Iran, maybe other countries should have sanctions too. I mean, India is not our friend on this. They're buying oil and gas from Putin. They're doing other things to support Putin. They voted against Ukraine and the United Nations. That's really disgraceful. They're supposed to be a democracy but they're moving right. Modi is moving right. A lot of countries are moving right and their action in supporting Putin is kind of an expression of that. As for whether Belarus should be subject to sanctions, I think it's a great idea. I don't know why Biden doesn't do that. I don't know if Belarus is in the EU. The EU could take action against it. The US could take action against it. There should be, could be sanctions against it. They are doing everything they possibly can do to help Putin. Okay, thank you, Jay. Chuck, to you, by the way, thank you for coming on today, appreciate it. To you, even in our own country, we seem to have key GOP members, the Speaker of the House comes to mind, Kevin McCarthy, almost lending moral support in that which Putin has been waiting for and that is to try to fracture the unity in the European Union and certainly any support for Ukraine from the United States. And it came in the form of a very pronounced statement that there will be no more blank checks as it pertains to support for Ukraine. We also had Margaret Taylor Greene, not the spokesperson for the GOP, but certainly a key leader for the MAGA GOP. And she said she's sick and tired of billions of dollars being spent for Ukraine when that money could better be served at the southern border. We also have Katie Vance is basically making his statements, basically following the Trump lead on America first and his viewpoints of isolation. To what degree is the GOP, Chuck? I won't say aiding and abetting Putin, but certainly not making it easy for the Biden administration to have a unified front as we support Ukraine. Okay, well, in mediation, one of the country's great mediators, David Hoffman in Boston at Harvard, coined a phrase called reactive devaluation, which is fancy for, if the guy on the other side says it, I'm again it. So for the GOP, this is election season. Anything is a ground for attack against the Democrats. The only thing that they can attack concerning the Ukraine because the support is popular nationally is the money because the money relates to their primary election issue, which is inflation. Inflation generated during Trump's time by tax cuts that drove an incredibly increasing wedge between the upper elite wealth and the rest of the country's resources. Their pitch is basically, hey, Biden touched it last, it must be his fault. What is it who touches it last? That's the blame that goes to everyone, every president through points. And there's kind of, you asked a good question about Belarus and Iran and the contrast between those two situations relates to that same kind of reactive devaluation tar the other guy issue, which is for Iran, anything against the U.S. and its leadership is worth supporting, no matter what it is. And if that has impacts on the EU, so much the better. For Belarus, the situation is different. But Jay, I think characterized it really well. You've got a puppet leader who is hanging by a thread dependent completely on Putin for not being annexed, taken over or replaced. Yeah, Chuck, let me mention that Belarus is one of the poorest countries, if not the poorest country in Eastern Europe has no money. It is absolutely dependent on Putin. That's a great point because the answer to Tim's question is, what would you sanction in Belarus? Yeah, let's let the sanction, okay. They don't have oil and gas reserves, they won't have. I mean, they're a staging area, but so what? Yeah. Were you surprised, Chuck, when Senator Minority Leader McConnell basically came out very strongly in support and in opposition to Kevin McCarthy's statement, he said the following, the Biden administration and allies need to do more to supply tools for Ukraine and thwart the Russian aggression. And he made a special point to say that all support so far for Ukraine has been an unanimous by-supportive support of Ukraine. So he came out very boldly and didn't care about what, by embarrassing Kevin McCarthy or not. He basically drew a line in the sand saying the GOP will support Ukraine, at least in the Senate. Were you surprised that he came out that boldly? Not at all. McConnell was there before all these guys, Trump, Rubio Cruz, the rest of them, he'll be there after them. His base in Kentucky is virtually unshakable. And his strength is he can bring every Republican vote to the table and he can do that because he has balanced his access to the Republican donors, the reserves, the power of the contributions and the electoral support for them. He doesn't have to depend on Twitter and these guys. He provides the support that gets those guys the resources to be able to make the races close enough where they have a chance to win. McConnell knows exactly where his strengths are. He kind of reminds me of one of our late judges and former state senators, James Wakatsuki, who was known for his ability to not only marshal votes, but count votes. McConnell is an expert at that. He does it probably better than just about anybody. The ability of Nancy Pelosi to be able to do that as well as she has in the House, despite a divided democratic base and people like Manchin and Sena Ma and the progressive caucus and others, that's pretty amazing. I mean, you got to give her credit too, but McConnell is literally unmatched. Sam Irvin and those guys from the olden days, Bob Dole, nothing compared to McConnell's ability to bring every single Republican vote, even against things that have 60, 70% popular support. Yeah, I think Kevin McCarthy realized his power and strength just recently because he recanted his statement about the blank check and he said, I was taking out a context. So I think being taken to the woodshed by McConnell was sobering thought for Kevin McCarthy and he quickly has backtrack or moonwalked away from his blank check statement, which I think is very funny. Thank you, Chuck. You put it very well, Tim, because what McConnell has reminded McCarthy is, bro, you're not in context yet. We haven't won the midterms yet. You're not speaker of the House yet. So if you want to get there, show a little respect. Good point. You're laughing, Cynthia. Why? Because I think that the only thing McCarthy respects is power and money. So let's speak or not. Well, Cynthia, I want to get your thoughts on these recent overtures from the mega GOP. I won't say the GOP. I'll say the mega GOP, because they are following a script from Donald Trump. Donald Trump's praise for Putin is genius and savvy. His go-to-lone of America first isolationist position. Yeah, we have the mega GOP basically trying to say, support for Ukraine is an top priority. What do you think about that? Their position they're taking in, is it a losing strategy? Because most Americans do support Ukraine. I think it is a losing strategy. And to answer one of the things that Jay was talking about, Belarus has been a member of the EU since 2009. Just for a matter of fact. Okay, so I think that the House passed $40 billion for aid. This was just recently. So it wasn't just the Senate that was bipartisan. The House was bipartisan too. So I think you're right that MacCarty's kind of biting his own nose off despite his own face, because it's not going to carry well with the rest of everyone in the Republican Party. Just those few GOP's. I don't think it's going to carry well just those few GOP's. And we got to remember in the beginning of this back in February, they were praising Putin. Remember when Trump came out and said, he's a genius. He's real savvy with what he's doing. And then all of the mega GOP, I'll call him that. I want to call him something. I know you do, but we'll keep it to MAGA. So the MAGA GOP has completely came out in support of Putin, that what he's doing is right. He's just getting his country back together as if the Soviet Union was something that was good and should be put back together. So they just don't have a realistic view of what's really happening in Europe. And like you said, that America first stuff, which will completely imperil America, I think, in the eyes of the rest of the world. And especially after everything that Biden has done to get NATO knitted back together and strong. I think if the House decides to try to undermine that, it's going to really hurt NATO, which we know the MAGA GOP led by Trump want to do. So it's sort of all going with that. And I think that we don't really hear about it on the news that the media is just treating the MAGA GOP as if they were rational, respectable people that should be treated that way. Instead of separating them out, it's just been recently. And it's only on MSNBC or NBC that I really hear that happening is to sort of separate out the MAGA GOP from the rest of the GOP. And I think until we do that, all hope is lost really, because those MAGA GOP that are in their races right now, trying to get elected and are looking like they might be, we've got to separate them out from normal people. So, and we've got to do it quickly because we've got two weeks until we vote. So, Tom was too late. All right. You are quite correct in what you state as the initial praise for Putin and his efforts in Ukraine from Donald Trump and his acolytes, the MAGA GOP, they switched though. They switched because why? Was it some consultant saying this is, you're going against the polls of most Republicans or was it some other reason they've switched? So that's a two-part question. Why did they switch from praising Putin to supporting Ukraine and it's the many billions of dollars we've sent them? And secondly is how does that change if the House of Representatives swings back to the Republicans? Well, I think the problem with the MAGA GOP is that they will say whatever they need to say to get the most reaction, good reaction from people, to buy their votes, to buy their support. They will lie. We know it is their strong suit, is how to lie and when to lie. So first, they're talking about Putin and how they support him. And then suddenly it's not the popular thing, like you suggest. So they drew back. They didn't really stop. I mean, they didn't really start to support Ukraine. They just stopped being vocal about supporting Putin. I think they just got quiet. I don't think they turned around and said, oh, well, now we think Ukraine should get everything. They just sort of shut up. Okay, do they spark up if they win the House? Oh, they're gonna come out full bore with it. You think so. How dare we spend all that money on another country? We should be spending it on ours except for the fact that some of these MAGA GOP that are saying these things are the ones that got PPP loans and then got them forgiven to the tune of a million dollars. Even Marjorie Taylor Greene had hundreds of thousands of PPE dollars that were forgiven. So all of this, we need to be fiscal. It's nonsense. It's a lot. Let me lay over Chek's comments about Mitch McConnell the strength and power he brings to the table. Mitch McConnell's not gonna swing that way. I doubt he will. If the House is taken by the GOP and you according to your prediction, they'll spark up more about waning support for Ukraine. What does Mitch McConnell do about it? And will he be successful to put them back in their box? Well, I think that Mitch McConnell realizes what very few people are talking about. And that is that Ukraine has more lithium in its ground than any other country in the world. And right now with everything turning to lithium batteries, boy, whoever has control and power and voice in Ukraine is gonna be in a better position. And I think that Mitch McConnell can see those kind of, he sees the long game. He has those, he doesn't have that short-sighted view that I think people like Kevin McCarthy and Margie Taylor-Greenham. Okay, great. Thank you. Hey, Jay, just before the show, we were talking about House Representative, Jaya Paul. She is the chair of the Progressive Party of the Democrats. And this letter that went to the Biden administration about strongly encouraging to negotiate a peace settlement with Putin. We talked about that. And to what degree does that help Putin? To what degree is that a moral support that the Democrat current administration can be fractured? Does it give Putin a reason to try to wait things out? I think it's only part of a huge piece well of change. You talked about the hypocrisy of the Republicans who supported Ukraine earlier this year, changing their minds, at least some of them. But at the end of the day, we're in the middle of a sea change on that issue. She reflects the sea change on the progressive side. And the letter she wrote and then withdrew was wrong and ill-advised. And I'm personally disappointed in her for writing a letter and a progressive group now as no credibility. They held up the infrastructure bill for months. And now this, anybody with half a brain would have known that this is very damaging to the administration, damaging to Ukraine. Because it reflects a fracture, as you said, as you suggested. But it's only part of the sea swell. There are other things happening here. Maloney in Italy is moving to the right. She's not gonna support Ukraine. If Le Pen wins the next election in France, she's not gonna support Ukraine. We have a kind of chaos going on in the UK, not clear what they're gonna do. That's really regrettable. Not only on the basis of their government policy, but on the basis of their economy in general. They may not be able to help. There was an article in the New York Times yesterday about Olaf Scholz in Germany and how he is holding back on money and military equipment to Ukraine. And being attacked for it, but the fact is he's holding back. So what we have is a fracture happening globally. It goes beyond what you and I were talking about a minute ago in terms of the countries that are not supporting Ukraine. But now countries that used to support Ukraine are not following through in their promises. And indeed, the United States is not really following through in its promises, both in terms of money and in terms of military equipment. The drones are having their way. So we have a sea change that's happening right now. And that's a static statement of it. But if you look forward to the elections in two weeks, it's more than likely that the Republicans will take the house. More than likely that they will be subject vulnerable to a Trump's position on things. And Trump would like nothing more, as Chuck suggested, than to attack Biden in every conceivable way. That's his, you wanna know what his policy is? It's to attack Biden. That's it. Then everybody who follows him will attack Biden. And if the house turns Republican, whether it's a Mac or Republican or halfway, they will attack Biden. This will be a wonderful part of attack because as the economy goes further to a recession, as we struggle with inflation, this is a part of the whole process. Just take that, swing it around and attack Biden for spending money on Ukraine. It was another article in The Times yesterday or today, I guess, about why people are in Trump's base. And it's really interesting. It's almost oversimplisted to say they wanna win. They wanna win the election. They want power and they'll do anything to get power. And the reason they follow Trump, they reason they follow the big lie and the big lie coming in two weeks, that big lie, the one that's gonna result in secretaries of state doing strange things and of course, litigation for years about who won. That is just a way of retaining power. Chaos is a way of retaining power. And if you wanna win, you follow Trump. And if Trump says the big lie, you accept that. And so we have a real problem in MAGA GOP, but in GOP in general. So the House controls the funds, remember? The House is the money part of the Congress and they are very critical in terms of whether it can keep on funding Ukraine. The Senate is not certain. You know, Fetterman is not certain. God knows whether the polls we talked about this before are true, there was another article, I think in the Washington Post, questioning whether we should listen to these polls. Who knows what's gonna happen in the Senate? Who knows how powerful the GOP and the MAGA GOP and Trump is in terms of the electorate and the base in this country. I am not optimistic. We can lose both chambers of Congress. Very problematic and one of the things that's clear is that what is emerging here is an isolationist approach and isolationist nationalistic feeling in the country and among them and them in Congress, determining policy and making votes against Ukraine. So if I were Zolensky, I'd be very concerned that in Europe and other places in the world and in the US people, countries are moving to the right. Not just their leaders, people are allowing them to do this. There is a new time in the air, including the US. And I don't think he can count on having continued support. So yes, Jampow's move was stupid. Jampow's move showed a fissure in the will to support Ukraine, but it's also a cease well in many directions. And I think what's gonna happen is we wind up being completely hypocritical about it, not supporting Ukraine, including the man on the street who was much more interested in a gallon of gas, in inflation, in the grocery store that he could give a rip about the liberal world order. Okay, thank you, Jay. Chuck, what's your take on the letter from Representative Jopiah Paul to the Biden administration and certainly the 30 signatures she got on that letter. What's your take on that letter and was it damaging? Did it give Putin more hope that he could wait things out? Well, I think the effect is much less than going back to McConnell and his deeper and longer term understanding of the reasons for the strategy, the billions and billions of dollars that Congress, both House and Senate have approved for the Ukraine, those are not going into Ukrainian bank accounts. They're going into defense contractors and intelligence, US bank accounts for a, in weaponry, in defense and intelligence, which are critical to Ukraine's successes militarily and politically. McCarthy may think that in the short term, casting doubt about US support for Ukraine may erode the unity and the strength of NATO that has been a really big foreign policy advantage for the Biden administration. But McConnell understands, hey, that money is going to the people who are the hugest sector of our donor base. And with Afghanistan reduced, and most of the other places where we're putting a lot of money, Iran, Syria and others reduce, this is a place to funnel huge amounts of the defense appropriations, which continue to grow, even if US participation in foreign wars theoretically superficially decreases. So follow the money. Good point, Chuck. Excellent point. I don't think that's going to have any impact on that at all. The love of money is the root of all evil. That's a good point. All right, we've run out of time. I'm going to go around the table for last thoughts. Cynthia, I will start with you. Your last thoughts about this topic. I think that Chuck is exactly right. It's all about money. It's all about greed, power and greed. And his point about the fact that the money we're giving them isn't cash money. We're giving them weapons and weapon machinery. And those are things that are made here in America so that to actually going into our coffers, like you said, Chuck, I think it's an excellent point. Really, because I was going to say that same thing. So I was really, except for I'm like, okay, now what do I say? Because he just said it. Do you have a quote for us? Of course I do. Okay, let's hear it. And this is a quote from one of the, from Representative Sarah Jacobs, the Democrat from California, who signed on to that letter, says, timing and diplomacy is everything. Such an important point. I signed this letter on June 30th, but a lot has changed since then. I wouldn't sign it today. And I think there's a lot of them that are saying the exact same thing. And yeah, maybe in the beginning in February, it was possible to try to get some sort of diplomatic action going. And we did. We were sending diplomats over there. Ukraine was sending their diplomats over there. And it wasn't going to work. And they saw that it was just a waste of time. And all it was doing was giving Putin more time to undermine and do what he wanted to do. And so I think the fact that this letter was released right now is, I think was maybe even done out of spite and on purpose to cause trouble by someone. So maybe it's possible that it was someone on her staff, but, and maybe it's someone on her staff that wants to undermine things because otherwise there's no other reason for it. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Cynthia, very much. Jay, to you. Well, I think we have to keep our eye on the election here. And the election's coming in two weeks. And it will have profound effect on democracy, as everyone says, and on the country and on the Congress. And if we have just the house turning Republican, we have much greater control by Trump on all of these issues. And he's going to try to do damaging things for sure. I think that Democrats are not together and that's demonstrated by the Jay Powell letter. And I think that the Senate is still at risk in terms of turning Maga Republican. And if the Senate turns, you know, your friend McCarroll may not be, you know, in office. So I'm not optimistic about this. I'm not optimistic for the country, the Congress, the people, we've discussed all these things before. And I'm not optimistic for Ukraine. I think we have a kind of, you know, the fickle finger of fate is moving. The news cycle is moving. There's a kind of fatigue, a sea change, as I mentioned. So watch out how, what is happening today, what looks like, you know, the reality today, could change dramatically in two weeks' time. All right, Jay, thank you very much. As always, Chuck, you get the last word for today. Look at the money, right? Billions and billions, theoretically further Ukraine, but as Cynthia points out, into American defense and intelligence contractors' pockets, the primary portion of the Maga GOP donor base followed almost simultaneously by millions and millions coming out of that Maga GOP donor base into candidates in these 2022 midterms, many or most of whom are far right Maga GOP candidates, selection deniers and others. The likelihood that they're going to cut off that funding before the 2024 elections seems small. All right, you know, you said something that just caught my eye because if I recall, some money from the Democratic Party went to fund these wing nuts. And that's unforgivable, but that's another show and another day. I like to think- We're going to show tomorrow where we're going to examine Trump's relationship with Putin. And if you follow that relationship, I know you have to follow the money, if you follow that relationship, you will see that Trump and his base want Putin to win. They want to support Putin and Putin wants Trump to win. That unholy alliance has a lot to do with this, money or no. Okay, good point, Jay. All right, Chuck, did you have anything else to add? No, I just think you're spot on because Trump sees connections as power elite corrupt connections. Correct. Others have a different worldview than that. Alrighty. I want to thank my guest, my special guest, Chuck Crumpton for today. Thank you, Chuck, for appearing on the show. My co-host, Jay Fiedel and certainly Cynthia, Lisa and Claire. Thank you one and all. Won't you join us next week for American Issues Take One? I'm Tim Appichell, your host. We'll see you then. Aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.