 Okay, so let's go ahead and get started then. So we have recurring this call with the main the main network service mesh meeting we have the NSM documents call which occurs weekly every Wednesday at the same time as this meeting and We also have the NSM use case call which occurs every second fourth and fifth At every Monday or sorry every second fourth and fifth Monday at this time as well There is also a new CNCF telecom user group, which I'm calling the tug which Is every first and third of Monday, so they alternate between NSM use cases and and the CNCF telecom user group We had our first kickoff in KubeCon This this last week and there will be a second meeting in Shanghai We there there is also a CNCF networking Working group as well, which occurs every two weeks on Tuesday at 9 a.m So I'm not sure if this is if that's going to if that's this week or if it's next week, so If someone could work that out, that'd be very good so events KubeCon EU is now a wrap and We had several we had several talks on introduction deep dive. We ended up with a few talks on in the In the FIDO and we also had a MD LFM Coordinated networking groups that they went on as well. That's that discuss the integration between NSM and FIDO and Future things that I expect to to see and we also ended up discussing about the X Factor CNF and The telecom user group ended up talking quite a bit about The potential certification process of like what does it mean to be a CNF? So that is a that is a big discussion that we're going to end up having with the industry Over at the very minimum the next few months and not longer So it's definitely good to make sure that people here participate with With those discussions and those discussions is my guess will probably end up happening within the CNCF telecom user group and Likely a few other venues as well. We will post those as they come up Is there anything that anyone wants to discuss with at the KubeCon I Think we've got some stuff down at a KubeCon retrospective when we get there. Okay, we will do that for their retrospective then So a couple things coming up as well that are not on the current agenda There is a Elephant event that is that I was made aware of that at the very minimum tailor will be there Which is Which is I think it was an elephant DDF. So if there's anyone who wants to so that this will be held in See, I should kind of details on this In Stockholm in Stockholm, that's right so if there's anyone who wants to Effectively represent the Add a seven this particular event and and talk with people and build up some awareness. That'd be that'd be fantastic I am meeting with with We do have some people in some of the elephant community So we have like people like Prem who do work with ODL And we're also having conversations with a couple people from Dunks in the fabric to work out how to bring some of their network services into Into NSM I will discuss more with that as as I learn And once once I learn the details and we were if we can work out if there's good alignment there or not We have KubeCon China coming up which is going to be in Shanghai and We have Nikolai and I have an intro maintainer track coming up there And there's also going to be second issue of the Telecom user group kickoff. I Don't know. Yeah, so probably it's worth mentioning And I hope to be able to join this time Yeah, Nikolai had the unfortunate time schedule of being at the booth during the telco user group kickoff He was there in spirit We so we have So we have all as well Before that there's also an event we'll go ahead and and I'll get the details for it pretty soon there is a user space meeting in Bordeaux, France for a dbtk user space It's I guess that's like a mini conference and this So if it sits the Thursday and Friday before ONS Europe, which I believe occurs on Monday Tuesday and Wednesday the call for papers on that is On May 31st So if anyone wants to talk about dbtk and NSM there that would be a good venue to put in a talk But the deadline is literally in a couple of days. So today's the 28th so the deadline is Probably depending on time zone Wednesday or Thursday We have ONS Europe coming up in Antwerp call for papers ends in June 16th we have MEF 2019 and Which is coming in Los Angeles in November 18th or 22nd and we have cube con And a native con North America and San Diego, which the call for papers is currently open and closes July 12th so if anyone would like to Give a presentation on NSM. I'm I'm certain that will run some of the intro Will add some of the intro and deep dive talks to it as well, but there's some there's always room for for additional topics as well Are you talking about the cube con now? That was Yeah, no, no, no, I just wanted to make a small remark about the cube con North America I mean, we still have time for planning etc. Etc. But My impression from the last from From keep coming you was that these two two sessions of 35 minutes are not enough. I mean Once people mean you open the For questions people start asking a lot and it's good to have the discussion So my suggestion would be if we have to choose again between an 85 minute slot if I'm not wrong and 235 minutes lots. I would really vote for a single 85 minutes lot so that we have more time to I mean we had enough of intros and deep dives and let's just just Have something that that's more open for questions and discussions that mean That's a good observation. Um, I mean we we also had the problem in in you kind of you that From what I understand at both of our talks that were people being turned away at the door because the room was completely full so Yeah, and for context each room held to 200 people According to the organizer, so each room 200 people we had about 10 or 15 standings. So, yeah, we were We were running very very good capacities Yeah Yeah, and I think that's a good observation a the one thing that I with the 85 minute one is I think there'll be a bit more preparation up front because More likely we they may ask for some type of a hands-on thing So we should make sure that we get the details on that But I actually strongly agree with you as well like 35 minutes is like crunch time and We end up with the one of the other things that makes it problematic Is there were a lot of people in the deep dive that had not attended the intro? Yeah, and so they're asking questions that were covered in the intro and So we ended up having to rehash some of the information So a any five-minute session would fix that problem. I think we've said wait straight into the cube kind of your retrospective Yeah, yeah Perfect Yeah, so I mean it went really well. We do get mentioned in a keynote Which is always good and we got a lot of mentioned. I mean there my passion was that the keynote was all about us More or less. So mentioned is too weak of an expression. My Basically that the main topic of the keynote And so that was really good The the videos and slides are already up for the event page I have been tracking Google analytics Against the network service mesh.io page. So we have 870 users in the last week come through which is a big jump for us and then we also had You know, I've also been I was also using QR codes in order to track Different campaigns attached to QR codes So we know how many people scan the keynote QR code or how many people scan the network service mesh intro QR code Or even how many scans we got from the QR code stickers so Am I muted? Yeah. So one thing that I wanted I I have put here the link to the telco user telecom user group kickoff presentation And the video is on YouTube already. I have posted it into the 2g channel on cncf Just for reference if anyone is interested, but I Actually, I liked a lot this slide. I'm still about to watch the video and to see what actually was discussed here I think my observation from from From this slide here and my conclusion for this is okay, we're part of this white landscape I mean, there are a lot of things there. So what I would really end I have some something in the end of the word group call if we managed to get to it like their old maps Think that I'm trying to bring for a couple of calls My my main observation here would be we're part of a white landscape We should try to start interoperate with some of these guys Around us to just have our roots there, you know connections strong connections Not be just we are Another bullet in the list. I mean we should be part of the landscape strongly connected to the other guys Just something about the deep dive you You talked about the composite and how to write an endpoint Nikolai Mm-hmm. Yep. Okay, and during this demo or this This intro to the SDK You are showing that you are using a VPP agent based composite. Okay That was that was the example. Yes. Yes, but it was really confusing for a lot of colleagues ask me if then An endpoint has to be VPP based to be an endpoint You see so it doesn't necessarily Dr. Realize is it does have to be cloud native if you write it up on which means it has to be a user space data plane It could just but and if you look at the space of things that actually work as user space data planes It's basically VPP or write something DPDK based from scratch Does that make sense of course, but you are also have the option to to use a pair of v8 You see all of me. Can I raise them? Yeah, you can do. Yes, you can literally do Whatever you you feel like doing That's why in one of the slides I was pointing to our examples Repo where actually there are only one of the examples is based on VPP everything else is pure Like even more simpler. Okay, not one to two of the examples Sorry are basically but others are more or less simpler Simple examples, but they are not straightly bound to be now The reference to VPP was because we already have the ACL filtering there We have the cross-connect as a concept out of the box. That's the point But if you introduce these concepts yourself and you implement them on some other platform like DPDK Then then there's no no problem with that. Yeah, I know all of that and That's what I'm trying to explain afterward, but Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, it's a good. It's really confusing when you see when you see your example There is a lot of confusion between the data pass which is running the VPP and VPP is running also in the pod That's a really good point. Did they was there something else particularly they had in mind for writing Network service in points and does the data path? Was there some other thing to use in the data path for the network service in points that your colleagues had in mind Not really, but it was only the fact that They told me yes, it's a VPP based project So you have to run DPP in the database. You have to run VPP in your endpoints We probably need to be clear about that because you don't even have to use VPP for the data plane You know Data plane that is not VPP based if they wanted to I think that we should start calling this data plane because I think that this is something that actually creates a confusion because in our glossary we Moved away from this on the data plane is essentially the chain of CNNs that turn on top So we call this kind of forwarding elements or forwarding plane or something along those lines Yeah part of part of something that I'm doing to That will help in this space is I'm I'm having a conversation with the tungsten fabric people in a in their main hall next week and So we're going to discuss two areas one of them is the network services as I described which I think is probably going to be the highest value area for them but also put the potential of getting them as a As a data plane as well and getting them to implement the data plane API and I think if we if they were to implement the data plane API, they'll give us a really good feedback on where on Where the API is lacking so we can get something that's a That's not that's we don't just say is generic, but it's probably generic and Simultaneously that they can they can give us with with a dish they can give additional assistance in And advice on how well it integrates so so hopefully if they agree and decide to go down that path and then We'll have something more than just BPP to Talk about in some of these in some of these conversations And in part of we we are also looking even we started at the conference looking at How we can implement a very simple kernel based and I actually I found an issue today just just for reference just to have it there Just a simple Linux kernel based forwarding Just to yeah, we have something as a baseline that says this is what you can do And if you want advanced features use some of the other guys So Frederick on the tungsten fabric integration Does it mean that this would be with the V router of Juniper or Is it going to be like Tungsten fabric natively managing or talking with the NSM via gRPC Well, they'll definitely be a gRPC component I don't know what that'll look like just yet because it depends on on what they want to do and what they want to showcase It sounds to me that they were interested in doing a something that was tungsten fabric related as the as a Kubernetes As a data plane that's that sits within the Kubernetes part okay, I I'm also going to ask them to look at something that is similar to to the ODL path because one of our goals is To be able to integrate multiple multiple groups and there's there's areas where ODL absolutely shines especially with the net comp support and There's other areas where tungsten fabric really shines that are complementary So I'm what I want to do is I want to try to make sure that we find what areas are complementary to To NSM and in the community so that we can get good alignment and in the long run sure them I mean there'll be some healthy competition in certain areas We want to find out that early alignment in for for the areas where they don't cover each other Okay. Yeah, because they also have the V router component, which is the data plane part So that would be interesting where and we can add if they aren't looking to integrate with V router We can add one of the data plane to the list of NSM supporter data plans Yeah, I'm gonna have a talk with one of their with one of the People from juniper this week and he's gonna give me a better understanding because I really don't understand tungsten fabric Okay, it's do like what it really does and but once once he I have a conversation with them then I'll Then I'll be in a call with them next week to try to work out that alignment If you're interested in Helping a bit with that as well. Like I definitely would appreciate some feedback Yeah, in fact, I think someone from juniper had pinged me. I'll probably connect back with them and then Point you to the discussion. What are you planning to show? Thank you? Okay Something else from the Kubecon you wrap up. Let's say I don't have any other things on the on the Kubecon you other than Slides and videos should should be on the events page and Videos are starting to show up the actual events themselves. So I was Notified that they've already started to put content up. I have not checked to see if Everything is there. We have posted them to to the NSM channel the video the two videos are there. I mean for NSM Page, yeah So yeah, the video is already up there. You can go watch them. They're they're they're picking up views And you know just generally speaking the interest the Kubecon of you was wrong We ran out of stickers we had a thousand stickers. Yeah, we ran out of stickers pretty much on the first day So yes, the lesson of that lesson learned bring more stickers lots more stickers. I Managed to save a couple for China. So I'll have something to bring there You've been hoarding them. Yeah, how long does it take to make stickers by the way? I Ordered them It takes about four days to make stickers So I ordered them like Sunday weekend before You know the week is the Sunday of the week before Kubecon. I had them by a Wednesday So it does not take long Okay, so and how much are they and I'm costing you as well. I mean, I imagine they're not bad expensive No, they're not it's like 140 bucks for 500. I think and they get cheaper when you order more so Okay, cool. Okay, so Let's move Down the gender then So we have social media community team Updates I have copied only the link to the account because We might Want to have some updates here. I don't know who is here from Yeah, I'm not saying Lucina on so they're probably in the CNCF The main scene or the main CNCF call which occurs every other week So we lose them every other week. Yep, the top call happens. Yeah so but we are We're trucking right along in terms of our followers work the 221 now, which is good And we got a lot of treating happening and there's a lot of things being retweeted and you know, we're all it's going really well Yeah, let's let's make sure we we mark down to 21 then I'll add that to To the current followers that way we can track over track over time as well. Yeah so Fred do we do you have any updates for the I'm clicking here on the network service mesh release notes? I guess not incredibly changed since last week Yeah, I did not work on it last week But I'm in terms of in terms of the release notes I'll go ahead and I'll give it a pass today and then we can do another We can run it Again past Jeffrey tomorrow since he wasn't since Jeffrey was not at the last call I want to get his input on on how the release notes are looking and and With with that once once we're happy with where they are and then we can We can set it to the side until we're ready to do the actual release I mean give it one more pass for any last-minute thing to change Okay, you see here something about our table limits that probably needs to be set as a limitation there And We have the CI stabilization Hey, what are your observations here? Okay, I guess we have all the relevant people on the coast so we can talk about this I mean it seems like things are getting getting better But it's still not quite stable. I haven't been following this one last week Dude, does anyone else have any observations as to where we stand? I Have mine, but I will let Andre Oh Yeah, we still have some of the tests failing sometimes Mostly it's related to EPN-based tests. They have added a few fixes and probably as Some of our guys found to be related to some issues still exists But it's not so critical actually As before so from my point of view it's a Much much much better situation then I mean at some point we get a lot of Problems with the public or specifically leaking resources, etc, etc So I would say that the CI in general is in much better shape and then the tests themselves also are behaving Not that bad. So I am running kind of a parallel CI just on a circle CI for my examples rep Okay, my it's not mine. It's there Yeah So, yeah, so there my observation is that things are behaving pretty stable. I mean Examples are just a user of the core components like the admission controller network service manager and the forwarding plane I would really like to rename some pods there but If you just want to deploy it on a plain cluster and deploy some of the examples on top it works more or less Stable now. There is some strange issue where the ordering of the deployment matters, but okay, I will try to figure out the integration test and Send it for more investigation, but I mean I am more more or less I can say that I'm happy with whatever I see from the core components We have just integrated the latest Release of the pp which was released yesterday to point one point one Which should help us? Have a better IPv6 support amongst other things So I think that we are moving into the right direction. We have outlined actually I'm great have outlined a number of issues that hitting We need to tackle before we do the branching But I think that we have very good chances to do the branch for the release this week And there's no escape this time. I think that would be awesome. That would be awesome We can quickly check the Backlock if we don't have anything to say more about the CI. I really think that the CIA is Is moving in the right direction and Andre is also putting some thoughts into improving it so But this this would definitely be something after the branch Yeah, yeah, yeah, also it will be related totally for Integration testing. Yeah Yeah, as much as I'm in favor of what Andre, would you agree not before the branch fall Yeah, what would your entire CI system just before release not a good move Yeah, yeah so maybe we need some Some some iterations here on the on the backlog and see what's critical for us and what's not What's okay, what can be actually left? For the next Release Think that we have a lot of the things done now. I mean in the dance date. There's a lot We have some things in flight, which are not that much mostly my from the things that he we have outlined already in the channel and Here on the left. I think that we just need to go again one by one and figure out What's still a thing and what's not because I think that some of the things are more or less Figured out already if someone if someone wants to bring something critical I guess Matt is one of the guys with the opinions here this topic Please please bring it forward now because we will try to cause as much as possible this week and branch Yeah, Matt Sorry No, is there is just a Some kind of strange behavior for about the healing process use and I have reported us and some bugs on Essentially as a monitoring reports. Yeah, in fact, I saw this kind of behavior because the monitoring doesn't Doesn't works doesn't work well, so I See they have been tagged this kind of bug by a head. So The fix is in progress, I think I Do try and roll through and tag things appropriately is the stuff we need to get fixed for version 0.1 And Things that are bugs and that kind of stuff which would be this one No, no, it's Okay, let me just take the number okay, so Yeah, my my At least feeling here is that for this first release we just need if you can just say, okay If you deploy this on a clean cluster run whatever workload you want to run and then if you want to run it again You have to clean up everything cannot rely on things getting up and down already plowing things and stuff I mean, it's the very first release. It's alpha. It's whatever Okay, you shouldn't you that you shouldn't have to tear down the NSM infrastructure every time Because then you can't have multiple workloads and multiple network service and points and things going successfully, right? so it has to at least be the case that you can leave the infrastructure running in the long term and deploy and redeploy various things on top of it and Still have stuff work. Well, we we all know that there are there are things like corner cases where if I Deploy something and then while deleting it. I deployed the other thing and there's this Intermediate state where things get wrong and you know all these kinds of strange things happening because To be frank in our CI we clean up the environment every time I mean after each test. So After the release is some testing that's a little bit less of the infrastructure every time because we should be able to keep the infrastructure up and Deploy these things and have stuff work and not be dangling things So that may be something to look at after the release in terms of the integration testing It may be something you may want to think about Andre as you I know you're thinking deep thoughts about integration testing going forward Because we do need to make sure we function properly The infrastructure staying continuously up and workloads coming and going But I mean with our first release I think it's more about proof of concept people that can deploy and see how this thing works in practice but I at least I don't expect that this should work in order You know getting up down things and moving around and etc. I mean we are I think we are not verifying this at least Yeah Okay Actually, I just to specify the issue I was watching it's a 1-1-2-3. I Saw it. I managed to find a scenario which leads to an SM manager reboot This is actually being worked on because Yeah, the the inconsistency you scribe here is is definitely a bug and definitely needs to be fixed Okay, so is that all on the stabilization or should we move on to the Andromeda release? Dr. Yeah I got distracted on something Don't know if from kiss on the call because this is just copied from the last time I don't know if it's still I think maybe we should just delete it if from kiss not here to discuss or maybe Prem Do you have any? No, I don't have updates on this. I Think I can check with them. I Think we started this topic to present about the first responder use case and Activities around it, but there is a such no progress beyond this discussion Okay, okay, we can jump straight into the rope app discussion then So, so there's something that I was I just wanted to to bring up I don't think that this is something that we should fix It's just more like let's talk a little bit like open and like in a common Call about the things that we envision next so of course I have put the first couple of items here So I can't start if If you let me so of course the release is the first thing which which we are actively working there Then there is this story of the example. So I Try to keep them in a separate rep or there has been discussions about Renaming things in the main rep or so I would at least from my point of view I would like to have the confirmation of the community that we would like to keep these things separate Maintain in a separate rep or taste it continuously at least the way that I'm doing now. So I don't know at Fred under at least from the I generally tend to be in favor of Moving the examples out of the main repo to a separate repo that said I do realize there are sometimes In that process I do want to make sure we do it with care But I would love a world where you know, we've got the imprint one repo and we've got the examples of another And and so, you know, when we're doing the ci, we're not having to rebuild the examples every time even though they haven't really changed um Okay, any other opinions here So the other thing that we have that we have discussed at kubecon With what's on it some of the other guys I think with taylor before it's about the cncf test based Enablement. This is something that this is pending for for a while and I am personally, um, I mean, I would like to get involved and we have spoke with What's on a lot about what are the things there and the plans um Yeah, so the the thing that we're waiting for at the moment was There was a written name of the guy from until I knew like michael Henderson or petersen or something similar that um Is working on getting a vpp networking with open stack doing its thing and We were having some connectivity issues between um between node-to-node communication Between open stack nodes. So once he had that working, um, then That's not nsm. I mean It's not it's not in the same itself, but part I believe part of what they wanted to do Well, there were two parts over the cncfci And then after that and there was a cncf test bed And so I think that the cncfci was the first thing that they wanted to tackle before they start to even Consider I think we have Watson here Craig and her wrong Watson, but I think that's completely your thought and all The guy who's working on the open stuff stuff robert starmer um is Off doing his thing there. And so I don't think that really relates in any direct way to us And I said working in the cncf test bed. Is that correct? Okay, sorry. I was on mute. Yeah, you're correct It's totally different robert stuff is totally different and if we were waiting for open stack But it would really hold us up. We'd like to have forever Yeah, we we would really like to have this the kubernetes side with the networking Uh network service mess going Yeah, and so I know that there there have been some desire expressed last week in conversations that we had To just have somebody sit down with you guys the Denver in particular And I think you also Watson maybe we're interested in actually doing the little bit of coding necessary for the nscs that you need and And more having a partner to help you through rather than having someone go do it for you. Did I did I get that correctly? Yeah, and then I also like to we were like nicole. I said talking with him about How the structure could be and he offered to to help so um, that would be Probably the best if he was also Uh working on that would be fantastic. Um, you know in my mind The first turn of the crank is actually pretty pretty damn simple, which is you just need to write a very simple network service endpoint Um, you know that you're going to use everywhere Which is just got um something that advertises a service And consumes the same service because the basic topology you guys have is a loop with your v-switch And use that nsc for everything including the v-switch And then for any auxiliary config that you need that's not currently being handled by network service mesh With the connection of the interfaces Just push that directly. Uh, so for example like the dpdk stuff to get you to and from Uh, the nick at this particular moment just push that directly Um, and that way you get a very simple first step on the whole thing Yeah That's probably slightly different than what I was thinking but Okay, I mean I will make sure to to to let the community know once once we were able to Sit together with Watson and figure out. Yeah. What were you thinking? Uh, I was actually thinking to take whatever we call the firewall now and actually enhance it to be completely config mc configurable to expose as much as possible from the vp agent capabilities like Routing the cross connect. So something that you can essentially configure through a config map So this is something that we call to it Watson something like the universal cnf Like you can you can do routing or you can actually I asked the guys there from the vp agent they were kind to add the acl base forwarding so you can do A lot of things they are based on that right This is fine. The reason I'm laughing is that we're building we're building a router. We're building a router and switch So, yeah, I mean that that's not also true I I had been thinking more from the direction of things something relatively unambitious that You know that remember those guys could do themselves Um, but but you if you're going to go actually help them I'll I'll leave it in your able hands because your your approach sounds fine as well um You know because I think at the end of the day however we get there from the point of view of code The fundamental thing we need right now because it's the functionality We're they're currently using is something where you know, basically the v-switch comes up requests a connection The first thing it hits you get plugged into the first then cnf as just a routable interface Because there are going to be some routes and so forth and we can ramp up and ramp down and Place and dice the steps we take to get between a and b But but fundamentally I think that's where they're starting Okay, so you're more or less aligned maybe the approach would be a little bit different, but yeah Both approaches are perfectly valid. I think more than anything. There's stations of our personalities So I I'm perfectly fine with what you were talking about there And uh I guess to to review also with what Dan was saying in the Uh user group the telco user group where he had uh or volunteered lucina for saying what all is deployed out of band Well the v-switch and a bunch of other things in the Um tests that are deployed out of band the more that we're using the network service mesh the more deployed in the cloud native way and we can We can talk about that in the And and everything so yeah, it'd be fantastic to get to the point where you say so what about networking? Never can get installed out of band. No networking is a network service that is installed in cloud native fashion Right, right Yep. Yep. Um, and the thing is I think we can progressively chip away at that. Um, you know, because for example things like the The s sorry of evf thing is probably a little be a little further out for network service mesh as a feature But we can you know, we can do we can do some out of band work And not even terribly much out of band work without until we get there and still use network service mesh for plumbing the connections between Yeah, something. Um, so is lucina going to come up with a a list of things that are not That or things that are currently out of band uh, yeah She's gonna well, they probably would just ask Taylor go down where you can come up with some things as well and um Put it together in the document Yeah, that that would be good because then we can take a look at what what we can Put in band and uh, it will also be good for two point others added for things that are not networking related as well So I think this is really good Uh, okay going further down the list. Um, we have the mesh integration deployment Components, I know that prem has Something to say there Yeah so As a project is essentially uh, meant to do a bit of benchmarking around service meshes um, so uh, what uh, a bunch of us are doing is trying to get network service mesh and uh, the idea here is How do we benchmark because in case of service mesh, they would essentially pump traffic via the uh, Ingress controller and then try to see how it performs What we're thinking was probably develop a network service mesh client and then take one example See enough, uh, and then uh, try to do a bit of benchmarking around it So one thing what I'm doing is I'm putting together a document. I wanted to validate with the measuring team just to understand Uh, the uh various components that can be leveraged and then once that is done I'll probably try to present it next week On what is the intent and then get community feedback to see how we can leverage the measuring platform Yeah, we should eventually get uh, lee calpote to give a short talk over here as well that is described He was here I don't know if he if it was him or someone else From their project, but we had Girish was there actually. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah Girish actually, uh, frederick girish gave a presentation. I think a deep Sort of high level you can probably ask him to give Detail I can check with them Yeah, well, I think we we had someone who came and spoke about uh, we had someone to see when was it? It was late april About a month ago Um, so perhaps Uh, I was thinking more like in to work out like the details Like if If this is a path that we really want to go that we really want to go down then being able to get the the details on exactly what we're What are we like what do we need to provide them? What do they what do they want to to provide us and try to work out that integration? Yeah So, uh, I can probably work on the first cut And then present it here So we also have an intern working on just to see how we can get this done Perfect So the next thing that I have put here in the list is this service mesh interface, which was uh, the new The new service mesh hype that that Was announced at kubcon now at first glance it actually seems a little bit far from what we are doing But on the other side, um, if you remember this slide that I wanted to point out from the tvg kickoff Where actually we are part of a part of a landscape. So this is again in line with what I think that we should try to do Um, so I would like I mean and on our side, we are going to dedicate some resource actually in vana here She's going to work to try to figure out what this spec is about how this aligns with us not really aligned today Can we apply to change some things there? Uh, can we can we try to figure out some adapters and in general how this thing is going and again this is all about being part of the wider landscape and Try to to be I mean if these are specs that are going on uh Maybe maybe we could become part of these specs They have the traffic spec which uh, which specifies a type of traffic, etc, etc Maybe we can contribute something there being service mesh in the end again Yeah, so so the thing with them is they're very very, uh, htp specific. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah that's um When if you look at the axis control, it's about like, how do you it actually will list out htp endpoints and like How do you control those or you look at the qualities to be a route groups? If you look at like the traffic The specs and splits They're they're effectively the same. So I think So I think it's as semi as it is right now is it is Not very I'm not gonna say it's not interesting because it definitely is but it's It's something that plays at a level that's way higher than uh, then we play at however We I think we have a couple options. So one option would be To try to work out how to enable these type of things. So if someone says Something like they want to do a split or something We we could We could help with some of those with some of those splits if they If they want especially when you started looking at things like how do you do federated? a clustering you know because that Way if you're trying to access something and you want to say that this thing could be split across multiple clusters We we could provide help with that another thing as well as we could also contribute to the spec and Push things that are that are lower level into it. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I completely agree with you Yeah Yeah, and I feel more comfortable with that particular path because I think trying to to shoehorn ourselves into the HGP spaces No I have a basic rule that applies here. It's the law of no unnatural acts Which is to say Um, I think it's a really good idea for us to engage But I think we with the nick line and frederick are saying which is let's not try and commit any unnatural acts By first forcing ourselves into the HGP part of the spec is probably death so Okay Then we have the kernel forwarding plane which already spoke and then I guess that this was it adding these things security dns You've got to go through security dns inner domain Andre had a really smart idea for resilience cv2 Which um, you guys have all heard of chaos monkey where you sort of randomly kill an element of the system With with Andre's idea for resilience cv2 We should be able to do chaos gorilla where we kill everything in the in the Where we basically update restart the entire service mesh all at once and everything still works um And then the other one we talked about at cube con was dynamic rewiring Particularly the packet capture example And then we also have the hardware nick slash sri ov stuff also that we will eventually need to do for the nfv use cases For the um for the chaos monkey. We should also introduce its uh Simian cousins such as like latency monkey or our others and do the system over time as we start to build Uh these type of features in Sounds good I got a draft that i've uh been putting together for the dns one So i'll i'll try to get that out as soon as possible So we can start doing some discussions on that And we we have an initial draft running loose for inner domain Probably needs a little bit more love, but it's out there. There's also an initial draft for the hardware nicks and sri ov stuff um You know resilience cv2 Um, I don't know andre if you've got anything you've written like a spec for that. Do you want to do that? Do we lose andre? Yeah, do you ask me? Yeah, what's your idea? Ah, okay for gorilla. Yeah Okay, uh, so uh, general idea is to have uh Init container to request initial nce pass connection to the monitoring container as a sidecar So we will be able to do full recover from this sidecar for services And the same could be achieved using quays dk uh with monitoring of an smd One question is for our security and the authority when we do restarting call the services except clients and except nce's But in general all looks very possible And very interesting Okay, so I think you've just politely said please finish the security spec so you can do the resiliency spec, which is totally So that that's a totally fair complaint. Um Yeah, and the among other things the inner domain spec probably should be updated to um To probably be updated to include floating domain. They're super cool Yeah, but Yeah, the the packet capture example by the way for dynamic rewiring. This was whether we actually got us the suggestion talking to people um The conference which is if we can do dynamic rewiring we can wire in something like a web shark packet capture box Um dynamically into the chain of a particular pod So let's say you've got a pod that's got some weird things going on. You can't tell what's happening You could dynamically wire a packet capture box say before the firewall pod um or whatever And using web shark you could do a packet capture specifically for that pod along that network service Um, which that should be like candy for developers Um, because now you can really get deep introspection to what's happening on the wire So this is a feature that is provided by uh, um by skydive by the way, but uh Uh, just When you mean dynamic rewiring, uh, you mean that uh Also, you you you should be able to uh on the fly uh move cross connect from one pod to another or Yeah, so if you picture this way if you have a pod that's got a connection between the the pod and the You know from the workload to a firewall to a vpn gateway The the idea we hand down every wiring would be to allow you to selectively for a particular pod Wire a packet capture box before the firewall and the vpn gateway so that you could actually capture and see what's going on Okay, but uh, okay, but it has nothing to do with uh The capabilities to uh, uh, if a pod is uh, is uh, to uh There are too many connections on the pod. Uh, try to to schedule To try to rewire some kind of cross connect to another pod dynamically Ah, so you mean basically load shedding so like if I'm I'm overwhelmed and I need to tell somebody hey This this is not working for me. I've got too many connections. Could you possible? That's another interesting one to throw into the mix to think about Um, I would throw that into the same general category as auto healing Um, which is to say with with auto healing. You're you're you're basically saying look, okay I no longer have the connection I need to the thing I'm talking to and so I got to go find something else to do Um, I think it you've described is not quite the same as auto healing But it's in the same flavor and that it's not something the user asked for it's a dynamic attribute of the system What I was thinking about with dynamic rewiring was the user makes a legitimately different policy choice about how they want the wiring to look Um, and that we go ahead and take existing workloads and rewire them in response to that So, yeah with um with that form of Of load shedding and so on there's there's a couple tools that we can pull from current application service smashes Especially you look at the net some of the stuff that netflix and uh spoke about things like short circuiting We we can make you so But anyways with that we're four minutes over the the agenda So I strongly recommend that we add these to the to the next week's agenda because they're definitely important topics Yeah, yeah Is there any last minute announcements or should we should we close it up? Let's close Yeah, I think we're good. Well, thank you everyone for your time and we will see you all again next week at the same time Yeah, bye. Bye. Tomorrow some of you Yeah, see you somebody tomorrow