 meeting. I'm having some tech issues so I will be on my computer but I'm here staring intently at my phone until my computer decides to function again. Got it. All right so I'm not the chair of this committee and in fact I cannot be the chair of this committee but it is my responsibility as president to call this meeting to order and to run the election for the chair and then turn the meeting over to the chair. I will be available to run the slides and so forth. So let me start by first of all greeting you all. Good evening. It is January 25th, 2024. This is the inaugural meeting of this council's governance organization and legislation committee. Based on open meeting law we are allowed to continue to hold meetings remotely without a quorum of the council physically being present in the room. If you have technical difficulties please let me know. In this case you can either text me or you can say it on the screen. Given that we have a quorum of GOL present I'm calling the meeting to order at 7.33. I'm going to ask each of you if you can hear me and I can hear you and let's begin with Pat D'Angelo's. I can hear you. I'm present I think. Anna Devlin-Goth here. Present. Councillor Ate. Present. Councillor Ryan. I'm present. And Lynn Griezmer is present. So the floor is open for nominations for the chair of GOL and I see a hand up and it's Pat D'Angelo's. I nominate Anna Devlin-Goth here. Anna, do you accept the nomination? I yes I do. Okay are there any other nominations by the way you can self nominate? I'm not seen any other hands. Anna would you like to make a statement? I don't have much of a statement prepared. Thank you Pat. I appreciate the vote of confidence on your behalf. I think sharing is something that I have not yet done on the council and I am really excited about the work of GOL. I think that it fits well it fits my nerdy part of my love of council really well. So I'm very excited to finally be on this committee and I would be thrilled to chair it. I think that it would be an exciting challenge. Hold on one second. Or are you writing that down? No. I just somebody wants to get in and I'm trying to tell them where they can find that. And in fact at this point there are any number of people in the audience. Oh my goodness. There are 11. It's the most we've ever had in GOL meeting I think. Yes. Okay. Given that there are no other nominations are there any councilor comments at this time? I'd like to make one comment and that is I fully support Athena I'm sorry Anna in this role and I'm willing to help in any way that I can but I also hope that somebody will step forward as vice chair and that we will find a way to have a good team for this. So with that I'm going to call on people to vote. Anna Devlin Gothier. Lynn would you put a motion on the floor please? Yes. I'm going to move Anna Devlin that we elect Anna Devlin Gothier as chair of GOL. Second DeAngeles? Second DeAngeles. The motion is on the floor. It's been seconded. I'm going to go to a roll call vote. Anna, how do you vote? Hi. Pat, how do you vote? Hi. Councilor Ette, how do you vote? Yes. Councilor Ryan, how do you vote? Hi. And Lynn Griezmer, I vote I. Anna the meeting is now yours and I will do slides for you but you need a vice chair. I'm staring down my phone currently. All right I'd like to open the floor for nominations for vice chair of GOL and I'm going to make sure I can see everybody. Oh my gosh. Pat you already nominated someone so can I go to George first? George? Yes I'd like to nominate Pat DeAngeles. Thanks George. Pat do you accept the nomination? Maybe. Okay I don't know how to take that. I'm going to say Pat would you like to make a second nomination? I'd like to nominate Councilor Ette. I've chaired, I've been vice chair. I'm happy to help in any way but I think it would be wonderful if you could do vice chair. It's not as strenuous a job as chairing but I think that it helps prepare us for transitions and things like that. So I would love to see you do it Councilor. Thank you. Councilor Ette, do you accept? Yes. You're full of resounding decisions today. Okay Pat would you like to be more decisive in your? I do not. I was only going to accept it if if Councilor Ette said no. So I'm very happy. Okay I'm going to go ahead and call the vote then. You want to make a motion? Can we have a motion please? The nomination is the motion. I apologize. I nominate Councilor Ette for vice chair of GOL. Second. Okay Lynn. Second Griezmer and I'm going to go ahead and call the vote starting with Pat Dangelis. Aye. Lynn Griezmer. Aye. Councilor Ette. Aye. And Councilor Ryan. Aye. All right my computer. Yes. You have to vote. Oh I also vote aye. Thank you. My computer is on round three of the little bar loading so congratulations Councilor Ette. I'm looking forward to serving with you. Thank you. All right the 2024 oh Athena. I received a call from one of your constituents one of a town resident asking if you could take public comment early in the meeting. I let them know that yeah we didn't have a chair yet and I would communicate that to the committee once the committee began. Obviously we have a bunch of people in the audience so I'm just passing on that information to you now as chair. Thank you so much that was actually going to be one of my questions was if I could move public comment earlier considering I think a lot of folks are here for an item that is on our agenda so if that's unless anyone has any objections on the committee I'd like to move public comment and why don't we do it right now before we dive into all of the other things even though they are somewhat logistical. So we're going to open the floor for public comment. Folks are welcome to raise their hand on Zoom if they would like to make public comment. We're going to take public comment up to two. Two minutes or three. What was the norm? I apologize folks. What's the norm for committees Pat when you were on GOL last year? Three but it depends on the number of people who raise their hands. Yep understood. So we are going to go to public comment. I'm seeing three folks with their hand raised right now. Four folks. What? It's climbing. Everybody get your hands up please so we have a rough idea. All right so we are going to do two minutes of public comment per person so please limit your remarks to two minutes. Athena are you able to be a timer or would you like me to keep time? I will be a timer so that Athena can do what she has to do. Thank you so much. All right. People not be on the screen however. I have to use my phone so just give me a second to set it up. No problem. Two minutes. Okay. Bring people in and then start timing as soon as they start talking. Okay. Thank you very much for helping me out with that Lynn. All right we're going to start with Henry Morgan. Lynn's going to bring you into the room. Please state your name. Roughly where you live. We don't need your full address just district or area of town would be fine and your comment please. Thank you. Hi can you guys hear me all right? Yeah. Hi I'm Henry Morgan. I'm a Hampshire college student and Northampton resident and I serve as the executive director of the Public Higher Education Network of Massachusetts. I'm here today to ask you as I did in earlier council meeting to amend the higher education for all resolution to include the Deffery Future Act. The Cherish Act is a vital part of the well-being and health of the public higher education system in Massachusetts. It invests in our future but an investment isn't enough. What we need is a transformation. The Deffery Future Act would eliminate tuition and fees and create a debt-free, fully financially accessible model for access to public higher education in Massachusetts. Local community leaders like yourselves must advocate for the students in their constituencies so that we can build a debt-free future in the long term. Including the Deffery Future Act in the resolution will help many thousands of students in order to create access to higher education for all. This resolution must address both the short and long term actionability of our legislation. The Cherish Act provides investment and nourishment for our education system but the Deffery Future Act provides a long term vision and important goal for our movement. Please vote this out favorably and include an amendment to include the Deffery Future Act. Thank you. Thank you Henry. All right we're going to go next on the list. We have Ella. Oh and Lynn when you bring can you just if you could just click allow to speak instead of fully promoting to panelists. Okay. That way folks don't need to worry about the video. Okay I'm going to Henry if I lose you please log back in okay. Sounds good. No I can't do it that way I'm sorry I have to do something else. Here I can leave the meeting and drink. Okay I got that one. So is Ella the next person. Yep Ella is next. Hi Ella. Hello can I mute and make your statement we can hear you. All right perfect. Thank you counselors for hearing us this evening. My name is Ella Prabhakar. I live on Eastman Lane in Amherst. I'm a U.S. student and organizer phenome and student senator. I'm here once again to give my testimony and ask that the G.O.A.L. committee amend the current resolution in regards to higher it for all to better represent the sentiment behind this resolution that being higher it for all. The chair shacked is an incredibly important piece of legislation for the health of our public colleges and I fully support this resolution as a necessary increase in funding for the public higher education system. However I feel that it does not truly represent the full meaning of higher it for all if we do not actually significantly improve financial accessibility for public college students. In the debt free future act does exactly this would eliminate tuition and fees for all Massachusetts students at public colleges. This is direly needed given our situation right now where Massachusetts has the second fastest growing student debt in the country where students like myself and my peers are struggling to pay for our tuition while also obviously engaging in our academics and working jobs alongside that. So I'm asking this committee to please make that amendment and I'll see the floor to the next person. Thank you Ella. All right next up we have Andrew. Andrew Lynn's going to allow you to speak you can unmute and you have up to two minutes to make your comment. Great can you hear me now. We can thank you. Thank you so I'm Andrew Gori I am a Northampton resident but I'm here in my capacity as president of the professional staff union which represents over 2,000 employees at UMass Amherst and Boston so thanks for hearing our comments tonight I'm here in support of our students that you've heard from. The PSU is a charter member of the Massachusetts higher ed for all which is a coalition of student groups labor unions community organizations and social justice organizations that believe that public education is a public good. Together we're advocating for a public higher ed system that removes barriers that our students face and provide the fair wages and working conditions that our workers deserve. Our coalition is currently focused on two priorities before the legislature the cherish act which will strengthen our public education system by reversing decades of disinvestment in our public higher education institutions themselves and the debt-free future bill which would eliminate tuition and fees for residents of Massachusetts at our public colleges and universities. A transformational bill really that would ensure educational opportunity for generations of working Massachusetts residents. Both of these bills are extremely important to us and the support of this council would be deeply appreciated. So our union proudly represents workers as diverse as academic advisors, residence directors, IT and communications staff, clinicians, psychologists, maintenance foreman's building supervisors and dining service managers, proudly working at the Amherst flagship campus and many of us living in Amherst. What ties us together is our love for our institution and our dedication to our students. In fact many of our members, thank you, many of our members are former students of the Massachusetts public higher education system. Through our lived experience in our everyday work we know that our working and middle class students are in crisis. State funding for public colleges has decreased by 30% since 2001 with the average public college student graduating with over $30,000 in debt. You have a need to wrap up. I'll wrap up right now. I'll just say that Massachusetts has the second fastest growing student debt in the country and our students deserve better so do the communities where they live and work. Thanks for your consideration. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you. Next up we have Hallie. Lynn is going to allow you to speak please unmute and make your comment keeping it under two minutes please. Thank you. Hi. Okay. Good evening. I am Haley Kelly a former Amherst resident in the non-binary representative on the Democratic State Committee. Many people have the GOP misconception that college debt is an issue for people of high paying jobs but as our wonderful senator Warren frequently points out 40% of people's student loans don't have a degree. I am one of those people so I want to tell my story. I grew up with extremely anti LGBTQ parents. They would great yell and humiliate me anytime they found me using my name or pronouns with other people among other frequent emotional abuse tactics. This all came to a head after my first year at UMass when my parents forced me out of my childhood home for being non-binary, being liberal and not capitulating to their far right political ideology. The PTSD and other associated mental health issues that came along with it such as suicidal or near suicidal depression impact my day to day life. I took over a year before I could even open the messages app on my phone about anxiety attack. As you can imagine, this disables my life in uncountable ways. I ultimately recognized that was preventing me from getting a quality education and decided to put college on hold until the wounds have had more time to heal. The only reason I'm not buried under student loans today is because I was lucky enough to have my girlfriend's family take me in when my own family wouldn't. The time is now to take actions that people like me aren't left to chance and the debt free future act is an important piece to this puzzle. Let's be clear what the vote on this legislation means and no vote is allowed to define statement that people like me deserve financial ruin, that we deserve it because we're abused by our parents, that we deserve it because of our chronic health issues, and that we the queer youth have to have our lives destroyed by debt if our parents are homophobic. On the other hand, a yes film means that you believe in equality, that every kid coming out of Amherst public schools deserve an equal shot at success. A family background and means that you believe in anti-bigotry and I don't think that queer people should have that and that you don't think that queer people should have their lives ruined by bigots. Which side are you going to take? All right, next up we have Ian. Ian Lynn's going to allow you to speak. Please unmute and make your comment. Please keep it under two minutes. Thank you. Hold on one second. No worries. Okay, Ian allowed to talk. Thank you. Hi, my name is Ian Rutter-Walt. I live in the first district near Cushman Market. I am the community sponsor of this resolution and was mostly just going to urge the GOL committee to pass this along to Town Council. It builds off of the resolution last year that I think was unanimously passed in support of the fair share amendment and also the resolution that was passed in support of student debt cancellation. And that is all that I had to say and just urge that the GOL committee pass it along to the Town Council pass it out of committee. Thank you. Thanks, Ian. All right, next up on the list we have James. James Wenslin. Yep, there we go. I'm sorry. I just brought the wrong person in. Sorry. No worries. Hold on. I'm sorry. Which one are we looking for? It's okay. James, if you lowered your hand, that's totally fine. Otherwise, we will go... Oh, hands back up. We're looking for... Sorry, James. It looks like James Mayer. Okay. Got it. And then only on you next. Sorry about that. Over my hand, my bad. Can you guys all hear me? Yes, we can. Awesome. I would just like to thank you for hearing from us this evening. My name is James Mayer and I am a student and resident of Hampshire College. I'm here today to ask you to amend the higher ed for all resolution to include the Debt-Free Future Act. The only reason that my parents are not currently still repaying their student debt at the ages of 51 and 48 is because last April my grandmother died and my parents inherited enough money to pay off their decades-old loans. This is not a future I want and not a future I would wish upon anyone. The cost of tuition to attend Hampshire this semester has increased and the debt I am burdened with to receive a college education, something that I believe that everyone deserves, has also increased. I ask you, counsel, to amend the higher ed for all resolution to include the debt for you, tract. Thank you. Thank you. Next up is Eliana. Sorry. Multiple. Sorry. Hello. Yep, there. Great. Thank you so much for having me today. My name is Eliana Stromadov and I'm a UMass student and I'm here to see and ask for the Amherstown Council to amend the current resolution regarding higher ed to all to include support for the Debt-Free Future Act. I've encountered so many of my friends and people that I met in high school, some of whom were highly discouraged from going to college because of the lack of financial support that they received from their families and because of their just inability to know that they could have a debt-free future. And I meet all the students I meet around me have so many powerful and strong dreams to help the world and to care for their communities. And education is an incredibly powerful stepping tool towards that. And a debt-free future for these students would really enable them to be able to focus on their visions for the world and without having to constantly worry about the looming burden of paying their debt day by day for so many years. And it would just be incredible and amazing for these just all these like passionate students to be able to someday like live without debt and live without that because that's something that's just talked about constantly. And thank you so much and that's all. Thank you. Thank you. Next up is Isabel Anderson. Isabel, Lynn's going to allow you to speak and then you can unmute and make your comment. Please keep it under two minutes. Hello. My name is Isabel Anderson and I am one of the co-chairs and co-founders of Amherst College's Young Democratic Socialists of America. And I'm here to talk about the Debt-Free Future Act on behalf of the Amherst College community and those of us who support Phenom in this act. I know that Amherst College and UMass are at face value very different. One is a private institution with a multi-billion dollar endowment and one is a very important public university. But working with UMass Phenom and my own colleagues in Amherst YDSA has shown that there is solidarity between us and it lies in the exorbitant and inaccessible costs of higher education. Because of Amherst's wealth and commitment to supporting diversity in education, many of us rely on the institution for nearly everything, jobs, housing, food and of course our future. We are proud to be at our college but we cannot afford to live in the bubble that Amherst College tends to breed. In reality, the college endowment only uses 25% of its annual spending for financial aid and only 56% of us here at Amherst are on financial aid at all. At Amherst YDSA, we have learned that accessibility for us will only begin when we stand with public education. There are less than 2,000 Amherst College students at any given time. In comparison, there are millions of Massachusetts residents from kindergarten to college who could benefit from the enormous wealth that we have in public schools that are underfunded and under-resourced. In the town of Amherst specifically, at Amherst College YDSA, we recognize that our college has historically underserved the town it's located in. You have 30 seconds. Thank you. We believe that the Debt-Free Future Act will help rectify this problem by helping students in the town of Amherst afford the higher education that our students often take for granted. The thought of taxing Amherst's wealth may seem distant or unhelpful to those in this community now, both in the college and in town. But in reality, supporting the Debt-Free Future Act provides an opportunity to begin to repair the divide between our campus and the Amherst community as a whole through this statewide enforceable equity initiative. That's all. Thank you. Thank you, Isabelle. Crisania, you are up next. Hey, hi. My name is Crisania and I'm a student at UMass Amherst. And I want to echo what everyone has said about the importance of addressing student debt in Massachusetts and ask you to include the Debt-Free Future Act in the resolution in regards to higher ed for all. College debt is a huge struggle for so many of your constituents, including many students here at UMass Amherst. So I was really glad to hear about this resolution. And the bills currently in the resolution are good first steps, but it's not enough to ensure that all students can reasonably afford college. Students' financial situations can change and needing to work during the semester creates a lot of stress and makes it harder to succeed in college education. So for higher education to be truly available to everyone, we need to do more. And so many of my peers are struggling due to student debt and the exorbitant cost of tuition, which is only increasing. And we need to do more to end the student debt crisis. So that's why we need free public college for everyone. And that's why I'm asking you to add the Debt-Free Future Act to the resolution. Thank you. And I'll see the rest of my time. Thank you. And Eleanor, you can go ahead and unmute when you're able and make your comments. Okay, great. I'm Eleanor. I go to UMass Amherst. I live at 112 Eastern Lane. I would like to see the Amherst Town Council amend the current resolution regarding higher ed to all to include support for the Debt-Free Future Act. Affording college is a challenge to possibly everyone I know, even if someone isn't directly affected, it's their children or their friends. And I think that this would be an important step. All right. Eleanor, was that it? Yep. All right. Thank you so much. Just making sure I wasn't cutting you off. Thank you so much. All right. That will conclude public comment for today. Thank you all very much for coming and sharing your thoughts with us. And this item is on the agenda. We are going to do a couple of things first, and then we will get to this and maybe we'll bump it up a little bit to have that discussion earlier on. So we're going to start with our 2024 meeting schedule. This was in the packet. And did everyone have it? I pulled it up. Okay. Great. So while Lynn is grating that, thanks, Lynn. If folks would like to look at it on this screen, did anyone have any significant complex that they saw with this just to make sure that we'll plan to have a quorum at most, if not all of these meetings? And if you haven't had a chance to look at it yet, I would ask you to please look at it, cross-check it, make sure all the dates are on your calendar, and then please email me if there are any days that you cannot come to. It's okay, obviously, to miss a committee meeting once in a while. Please be a human and do what you need to do. But we want to make sure that we're having a quorum so that we can continue meeting and doing our work. I'm not going to read these dates off. I'm going to make the assumption that folks have had a minute to check this out as it was emailed out by Athena to the council. Are there any conflicts that people would like to raise now out of concern that we may need to cancel a meeting? Lynn? I can't raise my hand when I'm also doing this. I don't think. I just would like us to explore the possibility of meeting earlier in the evening rather than waiting until 7.30. That's something I'm going to have to discuss with Athena to see if there's any way to make that arrangement since she is our staff liaison and she has a commitment that takes her till 7.30. That's all. Understood. Are you saying that you will be reaching out to Athena on that? Or would you like me to do it? Why don't we both do it when we meet with them? Okay. Sounds good. Thank you. George? I just wanted to echo that. I realized there are a lot of moving parts here and I certainly can live with 7.30. But if we could move it earlier, that would be nice. Okay. I think Councillor Ate and I had volunteered 7.00 a.m. but before we go to work, you know, so I'm just kidding. Are we kidding? Are you serious? I mean, I would do it. I'm kidding. For the purposes of this, I am kidding. Pat, you're muted. Hey, this time, too. Sorry. I'm concerned because Athena was quite clear that we could possibly change time in April but that she has a class that goes until 7.30. So I'm not sure what you expect her to do. So it makes me a little uncomfortable that we're pressuring her in some way. I think we just need to explore it with her. That's all. Well, that feels like pressure to me, which makes me uncomfortable. If I can clarify, I'm going to go ahead and share this meeting a little bit harder and say we got to raise hands here so we don't get into debate on issues that don't need debating. I think, Lynn, what might be more helpful here is to say after April, it might be a time to shift. Let's explore what that time is as people are looking at their calendars past April. I agree that if Athena has a class now, we are not going to ask her to do anything other than her class. But that if April is the time where things shift, April is not that far away. We can explore other options at that point, but I will raise this with Athena and not without pressuring ask if there were any other options. Any other questions on this? All right, thank you. Okay, we're going to move on on our agenda. Lynn, yes. Actually, I could use the raise hand function. We actually have to vote to adopt the calendar. Okay. So I moved to adopt the 2024 meeting schedule as posted. Second. Thank you. And we will go around this time. We're going to start with Councillor Ate. Yes. Thank you. Councillor D'Angeles. Aye. Sorry, Pat. Councillor Ryan. Aye. And Councillor Griezmann. I'm just going to go all last names until someone tells me otherwise. Aye. And I am an aye. Yes, Pat, did you have a- Yeah, just a quick, it's clear to me the importance of the people who have chosen to be called councillor Ate. Councillor Ryan, and I feel like that's- I would like to make it simplified and have all of us be called councillor, and I will bring it up at a council meeting. But if you make that, it's not a mistake with me. So just not to forget about it. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So before we get into is there any opposition to moving our conversation about the resolution in support of Hyred for All earlier, since I know that's what most of our audience is here for? Unless folks feel very strongly that there are other things that we need to discuss earlier on, I'd like to move to that point. Seeing no objections, I believe Alicia Walker is with us, and I believe she is the councillor sponsor of this. Lynn, is that correct? There's no councillor listed, but I believe it was both Pat and Alicia. Yes. Great. If we could bring Alicia into the room. I also am happy to do this, but I don't seem to have the power. So just as an FYI- Hold on one second, and let me stop sharing for a moment and bring Alicia in. Hi, Alicia. I think she's in cyberspace right now. There we go. Hi, Alicia. Hi, everyone. Thank you, Anna. Thank you, Lynn. All right. So Lynn is going to put up the, I believe the proposal on the screen. Lynn, if you don't mind, that would be great. And Alicia and Pat, why don't you tell us a little bit about what you are bringing forward, what the goal is, and what you'd like from us today in our discussion. I was asked by Ian Rotowell to sponsor this, and Alicia and I both agreed. It is a way to bring resources to ensure the Charis Act is a way to bring money from the fair share amendment and to use it to fund tuition, to fund green building, and I'm being very inarticulate, and I apologize. But it really is committing resources to ensure a really healthy public education system. Alicia, perhaps you have something better to add in terms of it is being sponsored by Joe Comerford, and I read all this stuff today, and I support this. What I have a question with is the student debt cancellation and adding that as an amendment, because I haven't had a chance to really review that. So I do not feel comfortable adding that to this. This really addresses also, in addition to student tuition and green building, it also addresses salaries for adjunct faculty, et cetera, et cetera. So it really does a lot of really, the Charis Act really does a lot of important things. And I have amendments to the resolution to make, so that's what it's about. And I want to remind the committee, we don't deal with substantive issues, we deal with clear consistency and action ability. Alicia, do you have anything to add here? Sorry, having trouble unmuting. I think Pat actually did a really great job of summarizing. Just briefly, it is basically signifying our support of the Charis Act, which is already legislation that is at the state level. So that's what this resolution would be. And I know that we had a lot of public comment about the higher education for all portion that's not currently involved. And I did hear Pat say that we don't necessarily deal in this committee with the content of the resolution, but I would be interested in hearing feedback because I think that that's an important piece and whether or not those two, like whether or not this resolution is amended to include that or we have a separate resolution that deals with that, I think I would be interested to hear the feedback there if that's something that's possible to also be discussed. Thank you, Alicia. I want to confirm Lynn that the referral to GOL, the automatic referral to GOL is for simply clarity, consistency, and actionability. That's correct. Thank you. So if we were to discuss, I think as Alicia was mentioning, are we allowed to discuss the merits of the proposed addition that hasn't necessarily been proposed by the sponsors in any way? Or does that need to be posted as a separate agenda item because it wasn't necessarily part of this or it isn't in this resolution? It's a gray line. I don't like to be so strict about this that we can't even mention it. Okay, I'm going to think about it for a second. George? Yeah, I think what I just need is some clarity. I'm not, so the therefore is to pass the Cherish Act. Correct. It's the resolution and it sounds like the sponsors actually have something else in mind that they would like us to do. And I'm perfectly open to that, but we need some language. Unless I'm not understanding this, I assume that there's a desire on the part of the sponsors to change that clause at the end and something to the effect of including, I don't know what the language should be. It's really not my job to come up with language, but that's my understanding is that's what's happening. The other thing is in the one, two, three, fourth paragraph, I think there's some issues of clarity, just language. But I guess the first and most important question is what exactly do the sponsors, what are they asking the council to resolve to do? Yeah, please. I think, well, first off, I think that the, I guess, Pat, if you don't mind, I want to share my take on it if it's okay. So the sponsors have introduced this with their community sponsor and they are asking us to review it for clarity, consistency, and actionability. We currently don't have a motion on the table to approve this for clarity, consistency, and actionability. Once we had that motion, I believe that what the sponsors were considering was making an amendment to include the Debt Free Futures Act, but that is not currently in this resolution as presented. Am I understanding that correctly? Councilor Walker and Councilor D'Angelo, you're muted, Pat. Yeah, no, I have, I just want to make a quick correction. The chair, it's, it's, we are amending this legislation that Joe Cumberford is proposing is amendments to chapter section, chapter 15a of the general laws. It's not a new law in of itself. And I just want to say that. The other thing is I don't know whether I'm willing to sponsor this change because I don't, haven't spent time with it. And I, as a sponsor, being a sponsor is very different than just saying, oh yeah, it's clear, consistent, and actionable. I can do that whatever our committee decides. But I, I feel like I have lots of corrections on this, which basically are minor, but I'm not ready to say I'm going to sponsor. That's fine. There is no motion on the table and you do not need to make an emotion to amend. Athena? The sponsors can withdraw the resolution and then work with the community members and other folks to, to add or change it and bring it back to the council when they're ready as an option. Thank you. So yeah, if, if you and Alicia wanted to take that under advisement, you're welcome to do that as well. Councilor Ryan, and we'll come back to you Pat. Yeah, I'm sorry, I meant to lower my hand. Okay, Councilor Ryan. Yeah, I think that would be a wise thing to do. I think for the, those in the audience, I've served on this committee for three years in the past and I don't think that has changed much, but I will certainly be enlightened quickly if it has. The way it has traditionally worked in my experience is that the sponsors bring a document to us that is pretty much what they would want. We go through it together pretty much line by line. And just for clarity, consistency and actually building it largely is initiative clarity. And we work together. It's not an adversarial sort of thing. We make suggestions and if we have any, and then at the end we vote. So it sounds like this is not quite ready for prime time. I don't think it's wise to try and wordsmith this in the meeting right now. But I look forward to it coming back in the form that the sponsors wanted to be in. And I look forward to having some of the folks present so that we can work together to craft this in a way that we all can agree. And then we can move it on to the council. Thanks, George. I actually, I disagree. I don't think the sponsors need to withdraw this unless they plan on changing it. They're two separate bills. There's no reason why they couldn't pass one for each. Alicia? Thank you, Anna. My interpretation was the same as yours. I don't think we have the intention of withdrawing, but I was just hoping due to the feedback that we've had that if we could have the conversation as to what that would look like if it makes sense in terms of clarity, action, sorry, I forget what exactly we're reviewing the document for. If it would make sense to have this be a completely separate resolution or does it actually make sense if we're going to come back next June meeting with a completely new resolution to have these be together is basically what I'm looking for that feedback from you all, but not necessarily looking to withdraw or stop the momentum on the resolution supporting the chair, the chair. All right, thank you. I'm going to share my opinion, which is that I think this resolution as it stands in support of this one act should move forward and we should continue with our review. And if the if the council sponsors would like to return with a second, unless they would wish to withdraw it right now, that they should return with a second resolution, but that we're not going to edit this on the floor right now. All right, so I'm going to make a motion so that we can discuss this. Right, we can I have to make the motion before we discuss it. So I'm going to is that true if we're finding it clarity consistent, even though the motion would come after after our review be done either way. Okay, thank you. So let's let's pick through this. And what I am realizing is I want to have Lynn, are you planning to edit this or would you like me to make the edits on my end? I'm planning to edit it. Amazing. So glad you're here. Okay. Councilor D'Angeles. Yes, I have a few, a few corrections. One after everywhere as which one? I'm so sorry. Can I pause you? I just realized something. You had a community sponsor for this, I believe that's Ian. Yeah. I'm going to Ian, I'm going to bring you into the room as well. If that's if that if you want to raise your hand if you'd like to be in the room for this discussion, knowing that we are not discussing substance, we are only discussing clarity, consistency and actionability. All right. Okay, I apologize. I would like to include community sponsors in, in discussions we are going through. Yeah. All right, Pat, what were you saying? After everywhere as we need a comma. Great. And then after, and I started to do it earlier. And then I realized I was changing a document, which I shouldn't have after the end of each statement. After each, we have semicolon and then there needs to be an N, which there are in the first two. Hang on one second. Lynn, I think we might need to have do we need track changes on? Or is it just we bring our version of the council so it doesn't matter. Yeah, I think we're fine like this. Excellent. Lynn, did you catch Pat's second comment? Yes, let me get done with the first one. Okay. And then after it's a semicolon and an and, yeah, here is missing an and. Yeah, the rest of them will be. And I want to apologize. I didn't look at this because this I should have corrected as a sponsor, the kinds of things I'm showing saying now. It's not it. Yeah, in the few I mean with this is our first normally generally speaking, it would be it'd be great if we could kind of picky people. The resolutions. Yeah, I kind of took a vacation. I apologize to the committee. How dare you take a rest. Thank you. Thank you, Pat. Oh, were you done? Wait, I'm not done. Okay. If we go down to the therefore. So excuse me, but after the last whereas it's a period, right? Yes. And then we go to now therefore. Yeah, and that's part of the correction is to say now comma therefore be it resolved. And what I wrote is that the town council of Amherst urges the legislature that call the town council of Amherst calls on state leaders and legislators to pass a bill s eight one six bills s one eight six and house one two six zero to improve public higher education in Massachusetts. And give me the bill number to bills to pass bills or it's two of them then s eight one six, which is the Senate and house one two six zero to improve public higher education in Massachusetts. Is it called the cherished act? Yes. All right, Pat, does that cover it for now? I think so. Yeah. Thank you. Georgia. If it's okay, I'm oh wait, no, we haven't you haven't spoken on this yet. So we will go in order. Councilor Ryan, you're muted. So I don't see where in this it actually provides a description of the act. And maybe I'm just missing it. But I would think somewhere I would say whereas, and then it would briefly describe what the act is going to accomplish. Is that in here and I'm just missing it? So you're asking the Council to endorse a piece of legislation which is not actually briefly described in the resolution. I think the sense of it or the overall purpose is in here sort of, but that was just one observation. The title says resolution and support of higher ed for all, which is fine. But the resolution is actually apparently in support actually of the cherished act. Maybe that again for the sponsors is they don't mind that's okay. But I guess two thoughts I'm just kind of like the title to represent what it's actually asking us to do. And secondly, I would think there should be somewhere in here a description briefly for the Councilors and for the public as to briefly what this act is doing. And then at some later point I'd like to come back to paragraph four, but that's my first sort of just quick note. Thanks, Drudge. I'm going to go to Athena and then I'll make my comment. Thank you. Typically the Council when they're writing and passing a resolution in support of an act, they will include at the end that the Clerk of the Council shall cause copies to be sent to the legislators. And I didn't see that in this one. So that just pointing that out is a consistency. Thank you. Athena stole mine. All right. I was so proud of it too. So that was my question was typically when we when we call on folks, we're actually also calling on only our own legislators in my recollection. Is that not true in other folks recollections? Typically my understanding is that we are. Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Athena. Sometimes you'll send it if it's in committee. Sometimes you'll send it to all the committee members or the Senate president. It's up to the Council or the sponsors how they want to write it who they want it to be sent. Okay. Thank you. I was going to ask Ian to come forward and to address George's comment, which I think is pretty important and also thanks. I had one other thing, which is in addition to calling it the Charish Act, I do think at some point we should spell out the full name of the bill, which is long. Yes, it is. The higher education, the resources to ensure a strong and healthy public higher education system. I'm sorry, it's the Charish Act, Colin. It's an act. The actual name is Yarkaylin. Yes. An act committing to higher education, the resources to ensure a strong and healthy public higher education system. And then I would do education system. And that's the actual title. And I would do comma the Charish Act, but Charish should be all in caps. Yeah. Thank you. All right. I'm done with my comment. Ian, did you have a comment to make as well? My earlier comment was just going to be that what you just covered in terms of it being an acronym and what it was the acronym for, I think George said is a good point that there's about not having a line in the whereases that goes specifically to the name of the bill. I'm wondering if we could put in something as simple as whereas the Charish Act commits to higher education, the resources to ensure a strong and healthy public higher education system. Okay. I would like to move this discussion. George, I am going to get to you, but I'd like to move this discussion along if we're not ready just because we've got a very meaty agenda. And I know we want to be out of here at 930. So if we are not ready to declare this clear, consistent and actionable, actionable, we will need to move it to our next meeting. In the next, we're going to see if we can get this done in the next five minutes or so, but based on the amount left on our agenda, I'd like to continue to move us forward. Are there any other edits? Yes, Lynn. I need to understand what the rest of your statement was, Ian. It's a strong and what? A strong and healthy public higher education system. I'm sorry. Okay. Hold on. I have one other edit I need to make because of that. The other thing that's left is this, which we can ask. It's usually the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, and Senator Comerford, Joe Comerford, and Representative Mindy Dom. Chancellor Ete has his hand raised. Sorry, Councillor Ete. The penultimate paragraph has ensure a strong and healthy, which would be healthy, higher education system. Councillor Ryan. Councillor Ryan, you're muted. Sorry. No worries. Is it the intention of this act to make tuition essentially free for all colleges, community colleges, et cetera? Is there something, because that would be very dramatic in specific language that I just don't know. I apologize. I just don't know. But what Ian has proposed is nice, but it's pretty just sort of, you know, broad. And that may be the language you want. But my, I'm just wondering a question, is this legislation meant to basically make college free for everyone in the Commonwealth? No, it's not. It's more complicated than that. And so you try and, okay, all right. We're going to go to Councillor, oh, okay. I was just going to say no. Councillor Grace-Marie. No. What this, having worked in higher ed all these years, what this is trying to do is send a message to the legislature that they need to better fund public higher education across all 29 public higher education institutions. The separate one is the one that other people have spoken to tonight. And that's the issue around tuition and student debt. And I'm not sure if I have this correct for our format. So I just want to make sure that Athena at some point may have to add a little change in there. Okay. All right. The only question I had was, and I'm curious, I think GOL went around and around in this last year. And so I apologize if I'm opening up a can of worms that maybe some folks are relieved was closed. But whenever we have statistics in, and really specific statistics or shocking statistics in resolutions without citations, I think that this committee needs to think about whether or not we expect to have citations in our resolutions, or whether or not we are taking statistics at their word when we put them forward. So I think Ian, that's my way of asking you where these name numbers came from. I think it was specifically the tens of thousands of students are putting off college. I'm curious about the words putting off. I know that that means they didn't go to college right after high school, but is it tens of thousands that go later on or don't go at all? That phrasing is a bit, I think, ambiguous to me in terms of the intent of this bill. And to be clear, I support the cherish act. And I want to make sure that I'm clear that I'm trying to make this stronger. So I'm curious where those numbers came from. And if we should include and to my fellow committee members, if you believe we should include citing our sources. So Ian, if you've got a thought on that. I don't have that particular source in front of me right now. I could get back to you, but our goal is to sort of pass this resolution sooner rather than later. So if it would be... It's not a deal breaker for me. I think it's something, but that's me personally. I think just looking at DOE numbers, I understand how it could be true if 64% do go, whatever the data is. But I think that generally speaking, I guess I'll ask the committee if that's something that we should be seeking now or in the future. If people have concerns about it. I think having citations is good. When I was looking at some of this today, I went on the Progressive Massachusetts website and I didn't correlate the things that they were saying with the statistics that are in this, but I can do that. But that would mean postponing this. I don't know that it's necessary. I am not proposing that. If someone else would like to, that's their prerogative, but I am not. Councillor Ate. I've been supportive of going forward, having some kind of citations for accessions. Thank you. And Ian, and then we're going to wrap this puppy up. I was just going to say, if not having a citation for this clause would prevent GOL from passing it out to Town Council, I would propose maybe scrapping the clause. I will not propose that. I don't think that it impacts the clarity, consistency, or actionability of this. I think that if we're setting a new parameter for consistency that we would like citations in the future, we can set that for the future, but I'm not introducing it now. All right. I am going to make a motion. Ian, for what it's worth, that may be brought up or asked for at council, if you want to look up those citations. All right. So I will make a motion here. I move that the GOL committee declare the resolution in support and move to a thing, and I can't see the title. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. It's not your fault. I have it up on my screen too, but if I have everything, it's anyway. The resolution in support of higher ed for all by passage of the Cherish Act, clear, consistent, and actionable. I can't remember what I started saying at the beginning of that sentence, so hopefully that motion made sense. Do I have a second? Second. Thank you. All right. I'm going to go ahead and call the vote. This time we're going to start with Councillor Ryan. Go ahead and abstain. Okay. Councillor D'Angeles. Aye. Councillor Ate. Aye. Councillor Griezmer. Aye. And I am an aye as well. All right. So this will move to the council for further discussion. Committee members, if you have any questions about this that do not relate to clarity, consistency, or actionability, I highly recommend you email that to the sponsors ahead of the council meeting so they can address them. Councillor Ate, did you have another question? I'm wondering since we've moved forward with this, what does that do to the amendment proposed by some of those who spoke tonight in public comment? So no amendment was proposed by the council sponsors, so no amendment is in this resolution. I would urge the folks in the audience who were seeking that amendment to reach out to these council sponsors or other councillors or whoever you might want to reach out to to see about introducing a second resolution. It is possible for the council to amend it. It wouldn't have necessarily been appropriate for that amendment to come before GOL because it wouldn't have been about the clarity, consistency, or actionability. It's a substantive change and we aren't dealing with substance. So if that amendment is going to be made by a councillor, I believe that the council meeting would be the appropriate time to do that. Does that make sense, Councillor Ate? Does that answer it? It does. Thank you. Yep, no problem. Ian, thank you very much as always for joining us. Thank you for your time and review of this. Absolutely. I'm trying to, Ian, if I exit you. I can do it if you want, Lynn. Okay, she made you co-host. Yes, I got powers now. All right. So I can do audience management if you want to share screens, that'd be. I will share screens. Does Alicia want to leave the meeting? And yeah, let's, Alicia, thank you so much for joining us. I'm going to bump you back to the attendees. All right. So we are going to move on. Thank you all very much. Look at that. We did our first thing. Well done, everybody. I'm vamping while I pull up my agenda. Sorry. All right. So we're going to move on to the review of the carryover items on the carryover memo. And we're very, very lucky because we have the former chair of GOL here who I'm sure between Lynn and Pat, Athena might not have to correct me as often as she would otherwise, hopefully. So, Pat, because we have you here, would you mind walking us through just briefly this carryover memo? And otherwise, I'm happy to talk through to read each point. Well, I think I can slim it down if that's, basically, these are measures that we realize we needed to carry forward for a variety of reasons. And there's a series of measures that were automatically carried over. And one of those is the Amherst Black Reparations Committee Charge, which we are going to be looking at and setting up. We wanted to also this over time review the process and timing for the town manager evaluation. And also we have, and we're working on that, I believe tonight, some of the appointment recommendations for the Charter Review Committee. And there are other committees that have been working on specific bylaws or amendments that are going to be carried over the amended nuisance property law, the proposed amendments to general bylaw, the refuse collection and recyclable materials or waste hauler bylaw, as it now called, and the amended street lights policy. Items that we believed should be carried over are the amended proposal for the establishment of a Transportation Commission. On ongoing, we will have a review of the council rules of procedure. And that's something we might take up early or don't have to, but we keep track of councilor comments and councilor questions. And then we also have to deal with the recommendations for the appointments of the non-voting finance committee members who are resident members. And that's coming up. And then there is a small and George will smile about this bylaws for future consideration that comes from the bylaw review committee. We have eliminated most of them. I see your hand, Athena. Do you want me to? Yeah, Athena, go ahead. But you all got through them last year, Pat? Yeah, we did, but we didn't. But what's left over is what the town manager has not returned to us. Right. So the town manager has some that he's waiting on some staff recommendations. He would have to bring those to the council before they go to GOL. They might need to go to other committees. And then there was one other thing, the council referred to GOL, the proposed legislative process guide. Oh, that's right. Yeah, thank you very much. That's not on the curriculum at all, because it was carried. It was referred on that last council meeting day. Yes, thank you. So there's kind of a bunch of stuff to do. Articulately put, thank you, Pat. We have plenty to do. And I'm sure we'll get plenty more. Are there any questions on the carryover memo? So I think my plan, full disclosure, I was not fully expecting to be voted chair, even though I think I was warned that someone might nominate me. And so I am not necessarily prepped up with how I want to use this carryover memo, but I think I'll share my brain process with you, which is that I'm going to sit down, maybe with Athena and Councillor Ate and look at the year and try to map out when we think things will come back to us and what we can start to kind of tackle when. And so I'll try to come back to folks with a rough idea of when things will be on the docket. And we're going to try to, some things obviously need to happen today, starting today. And then some things will be interspersed throughout the year, and some things we're waiting to hear back from town staff in one way or another on. But I'm going to try to get a better handle on that, if that's okay. Yes, Councillor D'Angelo. I was going to encourage both you and Councillor Ate to go on to the SharePoint GOL. George Ryan from his year as chair did an incredible compilation of documents and processes and things that are really valuable to look at and are still relevant. It's very intimidating being here with two former GOL chairs. I'm not going to lie. Yeah, well, he was good and I was okay. So don't worry about it. No. So if there are any questions on the review of items, I'm going to move forward in the end. All right. So next up on the agenda, we have some very exciting drum 2020 review committee appointment rounds to the town, adding a little notification that my internet is unstable. So I apologize if I'm choppy. I'm staying with you though. So the first thing that we need to do in this process, I'm going to turn my camera off for a moment to see if that helps. So the first thing that we need to do in this process is determine that the applicant pool is sufficient in order to move forward. Athena, I'm going to lean on you a bit here just to confirm if that's something that you bring to us once, I guess I'm not sure at what point do we determine it is sufficient. So the committee can look at the number of applicants. You should all have automatically received CAFs, but I can compile those. They're not public documents yet. So if you're reviewing them, please don't share them on the screen. Right now, there are 12 CAFs received for the charter review committee. And then the committee determines if the applicant pool is sufficient. You can refer to the council policy on making recommendations to council appointed multiple member bodies. And it lays out the process for what the committee has to do at each step. You declare the pool sufficient. You set an interview date. You have to let candidates know that they need to submit a statement of interest or a statement of interest. There's a deadline for those. You can continue to accept statements of interest even up until the interview day, but it's all laid out in the policy. So I encourage you to read that. Thank you so much, Athena. Councilor Ryan. Yeah, I took a look and I came up with seven. So Athena obviously is much better at this than I am. And maybe this isn't the time for us to get into the details, but it would be helpful for all of us, and I think particularly for the chair, to know exactly how to track these CAFs down. I thought I figured I knew how to do that. And I only came up with seven. And apparently there are 12. And that's something that all committee members can access. So maybe Athena had some later data, maybe now if it's simple or maybe Lynn can tell us how you can track these down accurately because I thought I had done it and I clearly did not. Thank you. They're coming through your councilor email. I put in a search with that title and started with Charter Review and seven popped up, and that was all I found. Well, I could pull them off the back end of the town website and then put them into a SharePoint, but like I said, they're not public. So I can't put them on the screen right now. But I can compile them into a folder for you so that folks can review. Typically in other committees, they'll take a look at the demographics to the extent that folks share them and try to determine if that's a representative sample or if they want to wait and see if they get more applications. Thank you, Athena. It would be really helpful if you would be able to compile them into a SharePoint folder if it's not too much of a hassle. I can do that for the next meeting. Yeah. Thank you so much. And then I think what I'll say is if for the next meeting, folks can take a look at that folder and just do a quick glance at it to get initial impressions of whether or not they personally feel that that is a sufficient pool based on what they see. We'll have that discussion at the next meeting. Councilor Ryan. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm going to go to Councilor Griezmer and then back to you. Sorry. Councilor Griezmer. Yeah. I just want to point out in general, we like to have at least two for every seat. Right. There are nine seats on this commission. I think we need to spend a lot more time advertising and bringing in some more candidates. Thank you. Personally, I agree. Councilor Ryan. And just a suggestion to you as Chair, which you do not have to follow, but you could also delegate it. And that's also an option. It's important, I think, that when people make these applications for positions that we're considering that someone, usually it's the Chair, but it could be someone else, get back to them within a day or two just saying we've gotten, you know, we've received your application for position X and give them some very broad sense that we'll be back in touch very short, but just letting them know. Because I think sometimes people do this and then they don't hear for a week or two or three weeks and it's not anyone's fault. Right now, we're going through a transition. So things don't happen quickly. But I wonder if you'd consider once you see the list that Athena's put together, if you would reach out and just say thank you very much and we'll be back in touch. Thank you for that suggestion, George Lynn or Councilor Griezmer. Athena, because we did not have a chair, Athena has been doing that up to this point. And Anna, if it's helpful, I'll be glad to do that since I am reading all the emails anyway. I don't mind. I think it sounds simple enough to reply to folks. And Athena has some stock language she uses. Okay. Yep. I think it's a good suggestion, George, and I can do that. I think that in addition to that, I would ask everyone on this committee, my computer stopped sounding like it's going to launch itself into space, so I'm going to try my camera again. If everyone on this committee could also make sure that they're doing outreach to their constituents, however you typically do, really encouraging folks to submit a CAF for this role. That would be great. Please do. Oh, Councilor Ryan, did you have another question? We're probably getting to this and I'm jumping ahead, but timeline, just someone give me a, yeah, what's, I think April 1 sticks in my head for some reason, but maybe that's not true. It is okay, but yeah. So Lynn, would you like to expand on that for the group? Yeah, I mean, the previous GOL and the Council did pass a charge for this group. The hope is that we can seat the group by April 1. Technically, they have a year and they could ask for an extension, but the desire would be that they would finish their work within this Council and bring it to the Council. So the other thing I just want to mention and that is that Athena early on has volunteered to staff this particular committee and has been spending some time as part of her graduate, her master's program in preparing for that. Thank you. And I would like to also, for the interest of making sure we are always clear, CAF, we keep using that phrase, it stands for Community Activity Forms, a form used for several different multiple member bodies in town, including this one. Any other questions? So it sounds like the action plan going forward. I don't think we need to take any action on this tonight. What we are going to do is by our next meeting, we are going to take a look in the SharePoint folder that Athena will create. And just again, we're not going in depth. The Community Activity Forms don't go in depth. The statement of interest will be much more in depth, but what the CAFs do offer is a look at some demographic information. So we can ensure that we have a pool that not only is a large pool, but also has some depth and variety that represents our town as we create this critical and important and inaugural committee, which is exciting. All right. Any questions on what your homework is before that? Okay. Yes, I'm giving homework this year. Okay. So the other things on here, we need to think about selection, guidance, and interview date. Are folks prepared to start talking about this tonight or would you like to wait until our next meeting once we've taken another look at the charge? I would suggest waiting. I would suggest giving it some time, too. All right. And look at the documents in SharePoint that have been out there. So that's my suggestion. Thank you, George. If anyone would strongly believe otherwise, sorry, their ladybugs keep dive bombing me in this room. So if you see me flailing, I'm not losing it. They're just ladybugs everywhere. All right. Unless anyone welcome to me chairing a committee, everybody, it is slightly chaotic. All right. So unless anyone has something else about the Charter Review Committee that they would like to discuss tonight, going once, going twice. Okay. All right. We are going to move on to non voting finance committee member appointments and the recommendation to town council. So first question. Again, I apologize. I did not pull the caps for this either. Athena, do you happen to know we're first determining the sufficiency of an applicant pool? I don't remember seeing more than one or two of these come in. I believe we have three. One of the applicants applied to, I think they put in finance committee and CB zoning board of appeals and the Charter Review Committee, if I recall correctly, but I'm just going to stay. I'll do the same thing for the finance committee that I'm that I'm doing for the Charter Review Committee. I'll compile those and Adam to go a sharp point for you. Thank you. For this committee in general, I know this might be the only time to do it, but it also might make sense if you have the interest in creating some sort of filter in your mailbox to automatically send CAFs to a folder that might also be a helpful tool. So it sounds like while we know we have good numbers, we have one open spot on finance committee, one resident member spot on finance committee that is open. So while numbers wise, three might fit our kind of informal rule of more than two per seat. It sounds like what would be best for us is to take a look at those CAFs and ensure that we've got some diversity amongst the applicants that we're looking at. Councillor Grisner. I happen to have looked at this and we do have a diverse poll. And I'm having said that I would like the rest of the committee to look at it. And but I think we should try with if at all possible at our next meeting to set up the interview schedule, etc. for this, because with the financial stuff that's going to start pouring in, the sooner we can bring this person on the better. Any other thoughts or questions about this? Is anyone else? Councillor Grisner, are you saying you would like to discuss it today? No. Okay. No, I prefer other people to also look at the pool and see if they feel it is diverse. Okay. Councillor DeAngeles. No, I didn't hear the last thing Lynn said. I said diverse and sufficient. Thank you. All right. So to confirm at our next meeting with regards to both appointments, both charter review and finance committee will be verifying the sufficiency of the pool and for finance committee, we will be determining the schedule. Great. Sounds good. Thank you. So similarly with this, we need to think about the selection guidance. Because we've done finance before, I would like to take the time between meetings to look back at the last finance committee appointment that we did and check in on what happened at that point. I would encourage others to do the same, but I will I'm committing to being up on that. And then we will set the interview date for those as well. Yes, Councillor Grisner. The very last one was a reappointment and we didn't really spend much time on it. So you want to go back to the one before that. Okay. We did have multiple candidates though, correct? Or might we have the one before that? I think it's the one before that that we did. Okay. All right. And I will maybe it sounds like I'll talk to Councillor D'Angeles who was on GOL and Councillor Grisner to try to narrow down the date that that was so that we can find that information. All right. We're already packing these agendas, y'all. So next meeting, we're going to talk a lot about selection criteria. All right. We're going to move past that. We already did the resolution and support. Okay. So 2024 council liaisons to multiple member bodies. GOL, I'm going to say this and I'm going to count on all of my folks to fact check me here. GOL is responsible for determining which committees receive liaisons, to recommend to the council which committees always recommend. I know we don't actually do anything, but we recommend which committees, sorry, which committees will receive liaisons. This process in the past, I don't think has had a ton of consistency and I'm going to speak candidly that I think this could be, this is a process that I think we could really streamline. Liaisons committees do not automatically get them. They, when they request them, we determine it. So what has happened in the past is that I believe what has happened in the past is that we do a list of all multiple member bodies in town and look at which ones, which ones have liaisons and which ones, and then we do outreach to see who would like a liaison. Lynn Pat George, is that, or Athena, is that true to your recollection? I believe it's in the rules. I think the president is supposed to send emails to town committees asking if they'd like liaisons and then individual counselors also give the committee feedback about which committees they'd like to serve as liaisons. I mean, sometimes we get into the situation where our committee wants liaisons and there's not a counselor willing or able to serve as one, but that's the first step. The president is supposed to ask for interest from committees. The president, not the chair of GOL. Okay, thank you. So Lynn, is that something that you, because we have the president here, is that something that you plan to do in the near future? What's your timeline for that? We absolutely need to do it. I also just want to say, as much as we reached out to all of them, I think we could end up with a flood of requests, and I'm very concerned about that. So I would like, at this point, I believe we have eight committees that we have liaisons to. In reaching out, I would like this committee to give me some guidance so that I could actually say in the email, while we're reaching out to you, we have a limited capacity among counselors, and we will only be selecting X to Y number of committees to which we will provide liaisons. Because I hear increasingly that committees would like that connection to the council. Athena? I suggest that the committee, when having that conversation with the president, look at the role of liaisons and the council's rules to clarify what the liaisons are there for, so that when you're asking committees, if they'd like to have a liaison, it's clear what they're asking for. Councillor D'Angelo. A quickie thing last year, I suggested liaison for the recreation commission or committee, and I did that because Alicia and I were very interested in setting up a possibility of programming for a youth empowerment, not a youth building a building, but starting that. And nothing much happened. It was not a committee that really needs a liaison. So along with reaching out to committees, I think we really need to reach out to counselors in two ways. One, there are real limits to what a liaison does, and several counselors do not follow those guidelines. And if that's true, then they perhaps shouldn't sit on a committee as a liaison. And maybe I'm saying this to the president because you appoint or we appoint them or whatever, but it becomes problematic when a counselor participates as a member of a committee. And we really need to address that. So the rules on liaisons are governed in the rules of the procedure, and so any counselor can pitch to change those if they would like to, but they stand as they are written now. I agree. That was one of the things that I was going to say was in the email out. I think it's helpful. And I think when you mentioned this of clarifying what a liaison is there to do. And when we talk about it at council, clarifying that and also clarifying that counselors can attend as a member of the public without being a liaison. And that in fact, if they would like to be speaking at meetings as a member of the public, that they should be attending not necessarily as a liaison. I'm curious about the thought as we think about the committees that want liaisons. And maybe I'm jumping ahead a little bit here. But I think one of the ways that we could also use to prioritize for counselors, it could just be based on counselor interest. It also could be based on alignment with the town manager goals. And if we have determined our priorities, we can kind of base it off of that. But I think to your point, Pat, not every committee needs a liaison. And I think while we do have rules, there are there's still a little leeway within them. And so different liaisons liais differently. So I think that that could be something that this committee decides when we are looking at once we get the request back. And I'd like to propose that as the framework that we use to determine which committees we prioritize for liaisons. Councillor Griezmer. Yeah, I think that's a very good qualification that we need to look at. The other one that kind of goes with that is which committees are most likely to ever have something that actually comes to the council. And I mean, for example, the shade tree committee is very unlikely to have something that comes to the council. So that's that's a criteria to add to that. That's all. Thank you. So, okay, what I'm going to ask for counselors to do is before our next meeting, please think about what criteria we might use. And if you have suggestions, either jot them down and bring them or send them to me but have them noted for yourself. If you've got criteria around the kind of recommendations for priority of liaison committees. The other thing I'm thinking about too is when we reach back out to say which committees did not receive liaisons, I think we should also include how they can advocate for themselves to the council without a liaison. Because I think that can be a really incredibly helpful thing for some committees who maybe thought their liaison was their advocate, which is not the role of the liaison. I don't know, it's a half-formed thought. But if we can also share we know you didn't have a liaison, you can still interact with the council. Here's how. I think that would be helpful as well. Because I don't want committees to feel cut off from the council because they don't receive a liaison. All right. Any other questions on this? Okay. All right. We're going to move forward. Oh my gosh, who built this agenda? Patricia. All right. So I did not. I did. The only reason I put the other committee charges in there, which is I think what you're looking at is at some point. Hi, Sandy. At some point this year, we should be reaching out to each of the committees to have them review their charges. I don't think there's an urgency to that. Excellent. Thank you for clarifying that item. I'm going to move it down the road a little bit. Actually, well, let me rephrase. Is there any reason why we can't send an email to the committee chairs once elected saying, please do this on your time frame? Okay. Great. I'm going to add that to my list. I'm going to let go of my dog. And if she runs off and barks again, I apologize. Yeah. Committee charges. And is there a date that they need to have done this by? Whatever you want to. Looks like you had a thought on this. Sorry. Sorry. Councilor Griezmann, go ahead. Whenever the committee wants it. Most of the committees are, you know, there's even some that there's two committees that haven't even met yet, or maybe there's only one. There's one. Okay. All right. Town council rules of procedure. So this last year, I believe that GOL took a painstaking time and really delicately went through the entirety of the rules of procedure, seeking out edits that they felt needed to be made. In the interest of the time of this committee, I would like to propose, and I'm open to not going this route, I would like to propose that we remind the council that any counselor can pitch a change to the rules of procedure. And should they see something they would like changed to bring it to GOL. And we will discuss specific recommended changes brought forward by counselors or including members of this committee. But I do not think that given what we have on our plates already, that it is a good use of our time to go through the rules of procedure line by line. Is there any objection to not doing that? Okay. Seeing none. I will make that reminder in my report back to the council. Oh, Athena. Okay. The next item on the agenda is the proposed legislative process guide. Okay. So the, George, why are you smiling? The proposed legislative process guide, I think I was the only member of TSO that is on this committee. So this was proposed by a previous counselor and was brought forward as a guiding document for counselors to use in understanding the process of making change as part of the council. It was referred to GOL because when we looked at it at TSO, and I'll speak on my own behalf as a former member of TSO, much of what was in the process guide felt as if it could be a rule change. However, the sponsor at the time explained, and I'm going to look to Athena to correct me if I'm getting any of this wrong, explained that it was intended to be a recommendation, not a policy. That said, it was referred to GOL from TSO or from the council, excuse me, to review for a substantive review, I believe, is that true? Athena, thank you. I'm floundering here. Yeah, it's a substantive review because there were, there's obviously some technical language in there, and the council felt that they wanted to make sure that it was actionable, and it was counselor, counselor, alumnus, Bob Milne, who proposed this to TSO, actually spoke with her this morning and she asked that the chair, what's the committee elected, a chair let her know when the committee will take it up again because as a community advocate, she wanted to make sure she participated in the conversation because she felt really attached to the guide as a useful process for both counselors and members of the public to understand the legislative process and when and how they can interact with the council and the flow of legislation through the council and the advocacy points. Thank you, thank you, thank you, and I don't believe it was in our packet, so we're not going to dig into it quite yet, but if we could put it in the packet, let me figure out the calendar, I will tell you, it is definitely a hefty document, so we want to make sure that we've got time to really read it and absorb it, and there's a lot of helpful information in there. Athena, you unmute it for you. Yeah, when Lynn and I were talking about the GOL agenda, I think we put everything on there, not expecting the committee to get through everything, so this was specifically on there because it wasn't on the carryover memo, so there was no expectation that you're going to get through a review of the whole thing. I didn't think we were, thank you. Councillor Ate. What is the distinction between a policy and a recommendation? If a recommendation is something that we don't have to follow, although it might be useful as a guide, how much time would be suitable to spend on it? Good question. Really good question. I think that is up to this committee. I'm going to look at the calendar and figure out where it makes sense to put it, but prior to that meeting, I do think we should all read it and come in with that question in mind, and thank you for framing it that way. Does that answer? I know I went right in a circle around it, but does that respond to what you were saying? Absolutely does. Thank you. Athena, I'm going to let Athena cut always, so sorry. Athena, go ahead. Oh, you shouldn't let me cut always. Okay, all right. Usually it's because you're going to correct something I just said, so that's usually why I go for it. No, no, no. I wanted to point out that the council did take in action on the legislative process guide. They referred it to GOL. They didn't table it, and definitely they didn't say they didn't want to adopt it as a guide, so I think that is as a council action, that is the council saying that they would like GOL to spend some time on it, but I think it's worthwhile having a thought about how much time. Absolutely, and we will have to report back to the council. What that report says will be determined by this committee, but we do have to report back by what is it February 26th. Councillor Ryan. I'm seeing I answered my question. All right, great, thank you. Okay, so I've got some calendaring to do it, sounds like, but generally speaking, I'll wait and I'll put it in a packet. I won't just send it to you willy-nilly. Okay. So we already did public comment. Y'all, I'm not going to lie to you. I'm feeling pretty confident that we're going to get out before the posted end of this meeting. Are there any other topics? I don't have any topics not reasonably anticipated. We've got a lot to do. I just want to recap what is happening before we adjourn to make sure I've got it. The report rating is what I'm dreading the most of this chairing role, and so I'm trying to take copious notes, but I'm looking to my committee to support me in this. So we have elected our chair and vice chair. We have determined the resolution in support of the Cherish Act, clear, consistent and actionable. We did a brief review of the carryover memo and I will be looking at the agendas for the future to try to map out where things will go to agenda. We are going to look at the CAFs at the next meeting that we have. They will be put in a folder and share point. They are not public documents. Please do not share them. I will start replying to new CAFs that come in specifically for the charter review committee and the finance committee too. We would like to seat the group by April. We will need to talk about the timeline for that at our next meeting. Also at the next meeting we will be verifying the applicant pools to see if they are sufficient for the finance committee and determine the schedule for them as well. And I urge everybody, but I will for sure look back at the past two appointment processes, look back to appointment processes ago to see the selection criteria and if people have selection criteria, please bring that to our next meeting. Lynn will be sending out an email to committees to ask who wants liaisons and in that email will clarify the role of the committee liaison. Once we have that, we as GOL will have the discussion based on the priorities to determine what committees we are going to recommend to the council receive liaisons. I am going to once, Athena. On the issue of liaisons, it might also be wise for you, Anna, to ask councillors for their feedback. This was brought up at one of the first council meetings, but councillors letting GOL know which committees they'd like liaisons, they'd like to be liaisons too would be helpful for the committee to make that determination too. Yes, please, councillors. I'm sorry. I want to raise my hand and be proper. I think once we, I think we should do the outreach and at the same end then bring things to the count. I'm very concerned about this particular thing because one, it's been stated earlier, we've had some councillors that have gone beyond what liaisons do and second of all, we don't have a lot of bandwidth to be liaisons. So I'm not sure I would start with councillors. I think we should start where we're supposed to start and then see where we end. But, you know, I can be overruled on that. I think that my thought is there isn't a reason why we can come forward with a list of, you know, the eight committees that we believe should get liaisons or however many we come up with. And then a councillor says I would like to be a liaison for X committee. Is there any reason to say no to that person if they are seeking to be a liaison? No. It wasn't a rhetorical. I actually was curious. Okay. So in that case, I don't know that it's necessarily a need to do it right now because I think that we'll kind of come to that determination. But okay. Let me just also add very quickly, there are some councillors who are very attached, if you will, to the committees they've been liaisons to and frankly, they've continued to be in touch with them. So, and I think that's fine. We had a councillor ask about that the other day. Okay. Next item was committee charges. I will email the chairs of the committees once they are seated and ask them to review their charges when they're able. Question, does this include, this only is for council committees, correct? Thank you. Just double checking. Oh yeah. In my report, I will and I will state this again that the GOL will not be going through the rules of procedure line by line, but if a councillor would like to propose a change, they can bring the wording in its final form to GOL and we will review it as that comes forward. And then legislative process guide. Once I know, once I've got a better grasp on the calendar, I will make sure that that is in the packet so you all can review it and we will go from there determining what we are going to report back in terms of a recommendation on how to act on that guide to council or how or and if to act on that guide to the council. Once I have a date for that, I will also reach out to Shalini Balmilne, former councillor who authored it to make sure that she is in the loop. Is there anything missing from that list of what we covered and action items to take away? All right. With that, it is 9.15. The calendar said 9.30, so I'm counting this as a win, even if in my own calendar I put it till 9. Thank you all so much. I am very, very excited to serve on this committee with you and I think there's a lot of wisdom and I'm really looking forward to being course corrected by all of you at all of the points that you will need to do that. Any last comments before we adjourn? I thought you did a very good job. Thank you. Even when the ladybug was actually biting me, I managed. That was very courageous. Good job. Thank you. Thank you. Courage. Nice work. Councillor D'Angelo, I think you were muted. I don't know. I'm sure you were just singing accolades, but- No, I was saying ladybugs don't bite. This one did. This one did. This one did. Then it was something else. All right. Thank you all so, so much. I will see you at our next meeting. Don't forget to do your homework. Have a lovely evening. Bye, everybody. Thank you.