 I'm Marsha Joyner and we are navigating the journey. Navigating the journey is dedicated to exploring the options and choices for the end of life care and to assist people to talk about their wishes. Over the past six months, we have invited members of various religions and traditions to talk about the end of life customs in their culture. Today will be different. Now that the 2017 legislative session has come to a close, we can reflect upon the efforts advanced or not this year and how they will impact Hawaii moving forward. Today, our guest is Senator Will Esparro. Senator Esparro represents the 19th Senate District, which is Ewa Beach, Ewa Ocean Point, Ewa by Gentry, Iroquois Point and portions of Elba Village. He currently serves as the Majority Floor Leader of the House, Senate and Chair of the Committee on Housing, which we will talk about. He sits as a member on the Committee of Commerce and Consumer Protection and Health and the Committee on Education and Higher Education. Above all, he supported our medical aid and dying bill. We have just come from the 11th Annual Legislative Review, the good, the bad and the ugly, which was the assessment of the 2017 legislative session sponsored by Hawaii Alliance for Retired Americans and Kua Council. Each year, they honor certain individuals and organizations that have demonstrated an understanding of the important issues to seniors and have been strong advocates for seniors. I'm proud to say our own John Ratcliffe received the Shining Lights Award for his worth with death with dignity, the very subject that we talk about every week. However, this is his 48th treatment of chemotherapy and it's also his birthday today. John McDermott was also honored. He's the Hawaii State Long-Term Care Ombudsman for his tireless commitment to seniors and their health care. So today, we will visit with Senator Aspero. Thank you, thank you, thank you for being my guest and a long-time friend. But all of you people that know, that are with us every week, I only invite friends. And I know the best friends on Hawaii. Just absolutely thank you for being with us today. Hello, Marcia. Thank you for inviting me. Now tell us, how long have you been in the legislature? This is my 18th year in the legislature. I was three years in the House of Representatives and this is my 15th year in the Senate. Plus I worked eight years in the administration of Mayor Frank Fossey, so 26 years in state and city government. That's a long time. Well, anyway, you're not a senior yet, but what a retirement that is. Hopefully I'll get something out of that. Yeah, so let's start at the beginning. We said that you supported our bill of medical aid and dying, as did the Senate overwhelmingly, I might add. Yes, it was a 22 to 3 vote. And interestingly enough, the last time we took up that dignity, which was over 10 years ago, I believe the Senate was 14 to 11. So there's been a dramatic change in the number and the support. The House, the last time, was overwhelming for it and the Senate was, we lost by 3 votes. This time it's just the opposite. Yes, and my understanding is this will likely be revisited again next year. In the House, the bill died in the Health Committee. But it was deferred, not died. Correct, yes. It was deferred, but in essence it meant that it was stalled for this legislative session. And it's still alive for next year. We could attempt to use the same measure or try another bill. And that remains to be seen, but it's certainly an issue that I know will come up again. Good. And of course we're going to come back and have all of our people on board with us to help us get it through. So you are on the Housing Committee, so you did a great piece at where we just came from talking about housing and its impact on us today and where we're going, the needs of, as we grow so rapidly, the needs of people. Yes. So tell us about housing. Housing is a topic that I could speak about for hours, but I know we only have just under 30 minutes. But of course this is one of the most pressing and important issues facing our state today because of the cost of housing. And what makes matters significant is that our population is continually growing. My projection is in the next 50 years there will be an additional 500,000 people living on Oahu. Oh my. And that's just, right now we have just under a million. So 500,000 is significant. So where would we put all those people? Exactly. We need to plan for the future, which is what we're doing now, although many people have many ideas, but the long-term planning of where people are going to live, housing, where they're going to work, where they're going to play, where they're going to go to school, how they're going to move around, I mean those are the hot topics of today when you look at rail, housing costs, job creation, building out universities and schools. One of the things we didn't talk about, you just mentioned employment, with this new technology like we have here, this marvelous technology of think tech, why is it that we aren't teleporting to work? Why is it that everybody is on that freeway at the same time? Why can't we have jobs that we, because everybody goes to work, they sit at their desk and they open a computer. Why can't they do this in a computer cafe or at home or something to stay off of the road? Right. That's a very good question and this has been an item that actually has been discussed for years. In Honolulu, for example, we have the second city and one way to deal with the traffic problem would be to create more jobs in West Oahu so people don't have to commute. There's also been talk about having employment centers, job centers where people can go and like you said, work on a computer, have access to a coffee machine, a scanner, but much of the effort has to be a joint collaboration between government and the private sector and businesses. In terms of government, we've tried to spread around satellite city halls, state offices in different areas of the island so that they are close to where people live and people don't have to be driving, but the private sector has to also look at its needs and how it can better utilize its employees using technology. When you look at the fact that the federal government, the state, and the city are the major employers on the island, they're the ones that have to figure that out. How does a stagger hours? I mean, there's no reason that the city should be open from 7.45 to 4.30 when I know there are employees at the city that would love to work later after the traffic. Why can't? We stay open to accommodate people that live in your area where the traffic is the worst, couple a and have staggered hours so people, the traffic isn't so. And then that has been an issue that has come up because many of our, all of our government employees basically are unionized. It has to be a union negotiation and a collective bargaining issue. But certainly you also have to have the resources and to extend the work time and or facilities obviously was going to mean more electric costs, more air conditioning costs and the slew of issues that parents have to deal with in terms of children going to school, taking up children, extra curricular activities and that all of those are part of that discussion. But there have been efforts to look at staggered working hours and more online and computer registration and the use of computers. For example, at the legislature, you can provide testimony from your computer. You don't have to physically come down anymore. Someone can go to capital.hawaii.gov, find a bill that they want to testify about and then present their testimony at home, if they're at the beach, at work and thus keeps them off the road. So there have been efforts to use technology to our benefit. However, it's complex and complicated when you just look at all of the moving parts and all of the stakeholders and trying to determine what is best and how are you going to implement those decisions. And then of course the employees themselves and how it impacts them and their families. Well, the police department says I'm going to ask you the same question. What is the busiest time for the police in a 24-hour day? The busiest time, I'm going to guess it's in the evening. What time? My guess will be 7 to 10. No. 3 o'clock. In afternoon? In the afternoon. This is what the police department told us. 3 o'clock because kids are out of school, parents are at work, there's more traffic. At 3 o'clock schools let out the university, teachers that are the traffic and kids running around doing what not. That is their busiest time in a 24-hour day. So when you look at that and you say, well, don't we need to look at those kinds of things in determining how we go forward in building this city? Definitely. And certainly there are many ideas out there on how we can improve things and make changes. Because of the individuals involved in the entities and organizations, as I said, it's rather complex and it's easier thought about than actually implemented and done. And let's go back to your plan about the housing. What we were told from the city that the master plan is already 25 years old and they're operating on a 25-year-old plan and everything is changing so fast, does the city, do you, the city and the state work together on a master plan? Have you worked together? Especially with what you're talking about and the projected growth. And they're working 25 years back. So the state has master plans, the county has master plans, but people need to understand that those are just fluid documents and thoughts that can change overnight. Depending on the economy, depending on revenue and when you're looking at the budget cycles, they're usually like to look five to 10 years of the budget cycle in terms of planning and preparing. But we just, in this last election, one of the charter amendments was to allow the city to update those plans, that's why I know the date, update those plans at five every five years. Well, if they haven't done them in 25 years of thought, but it's going to take that long. Yes, and so I'm asking, do you work together, I mean there's only one, you know, this little island, there's only so many places to go. Do you and the county work together on these plans, the projection of the growth that you talked about? Are you working together? That's my question. I can say that information is shared, but the state government is a separate entity from the county government, and then you've got the different counties on the neighbor islands. So when you're looking at, for example, the general plan of the counties, that is the responsibility of the county, of the mayor and the city council. That's not the responsibility of the governor or the legislature, but if there's information that needs to be had, if they need data, there's certainly that sharing. And if there's meetings where a state official can come and provide information, that's done. But ultimately at the end of the day, it's up to the county and its members to put that and put those general plans together. Great. Thank you. You know, he used to be with an administrative, Fawcett administration as I was. And so, yes, we do understand, that's why I'm asking, but the collaboration, because in those days, you know, there was no collaboration between the county and the state. Now the working relationship is better. Yes, it is. And as a matter of fact, speaking of collaboration, we did just pass the resolution, SCR-14. SCR-14.45, which I introduced, which is requesting and asking that the state and city collaborate and work together on affordable housing solutions. I'm going back to the fact that I'm the housing chair. The county has its own projects. We have projects. Sometimes we work together. Sometimes we don't. But we certainly need to work together because sometimes the county has resources and we might have a project and they can spend it on their own projects or they can partner with the state. And if we have a project on Oahu, for example, then those county funds could considerably be used on a state project because at the end of the day, we're still working for Oahu Honolulu residents. And thus, it makes sense and we're more efficient if we do work together. We're going to take a break and then when we come back, let's talk about the rest of the session. Okay? Thank you. Thank you. Match day is no ordinary day. The pitch, hallowed ground for players and supporters alike, excitement builds, game plans are made with responsibility in mind, celebrations are underway, ready for kick-off, MLS clubs and our supporters rise to the challenge. We make responsible decisions while we cheer on our heroes and toast their success. Elevate your match day experience. If you drink, never drive. Hey, we're back. And today we're talking with my dear friend, Senator Willis Spiro. And we just came from the wrap-up of the legislature. And there were a lot of bills that I was disappointed. One was the pesticide bill and the one about the suntan lotion, oxybenzone. For anybody that doesn't know, that is a chemical that bleaches the coral. So that didn't pass. And so there were a lot of things that didn't pass. Let's talk about the ones that did and their impact on our environment and on our way of life. Well, as the housing chair, I think that's a good place where I can start. We tried to get more money for housing projects. I had introduced a bill that would have injected $2 billion of funding into projects for infrastructure because you could easily spend hundreds of million dollars on infrastructure when we're talking about drainage, roads, sidewalks. Unfortunately, that didn't pass. What? It did not pass? It did not pass. Because there's still some issues that need to be resolved in some of the projects. But I felt that when you look at the neighbor islands as well, for example, you could easily inject $100 million into every neighbor island. And that would be $300 million right there. But we did pass some bills that will help housing needs for families. So for example, House Bill 530 is a bill that updates our down payment loan program, especially for young families and new homeowners. So it'll make it easier, provide more information, and provide some assistance on individuals trying to get a down payment. We also passed Senate Bill 584, which will allow an individual, an applicant, to use an extended or a HANAI family member, usually to help them qualify for a loan. Usually it had to be an immediate family member. So Hawaii's use of HANAI or extended family members should help applicants qualify for loans. HB1 is a measure that will allow tiny homes on ag land. I love tiny homes. And these are for ag workers, not tiny home developments. But there's a need for workforce housing, and especially in rural areas. And hopefully HB1 will be the start of looking at this idea of tiny homes. It's popping up all over the world, and this is something I think Hawaii can look at, especially for individuals or couples or even elderly. A tiny home, a smaller home, almost like a studio, can be built for, I've seen figures anywhere from $70,000 to $120,000. And if a person puts that on their property, for example, the county is promoting ADUs, accessory dwelling units, to help the market I just mentioned. And that would certainly go a long way in dealing with our lack of affordable rentals, which we need, and even possibly help some of the homeless. And that's a problem. HB1179 is a project that the unions and developers have been working on that would lower the wages of union workers so that it would help lower the cost of housing. Because many of these union workers who are building these homes, their families and their members can't even afford the home. So this bill would exempt certain homes from the general excise tax. And this is, I think, a good measure that's going to be beneficial. And finally, we have SB1244, which would create housing trust, a non-profit housing trust. So right now, you have HCDA, the Hawaii Community Development Authority, which is developing the Kakaako area. And there are requirements for developers to build affordable units. And hopefully we want these affordable units to be in perpetuity, or at least 20 to 30 years. But if somebody wants to sell one of their affordable units, they have to go to HCDA, which has the right of first refusal. And if HCDA says that we'll buy it and put it back on the market, that's fine and keep it affordable. But HCDA can also say we don't have the funds or we're not in a position to purchase it. And thus, the home could be sold now at market rate. With this affordable housing, non-profit affordable housing trust, the trust can purchase that home in place of the HCDA and thus leave that home affordable in perpetuity. So this is a good thing that hopefully will help. And then at the end of the day, the big bill that didn't pass was the rail bill. And rail, as you know. That was so convoluted. Yes. I mean, everybody has so many different things about it. Right. But from my perspective and many others, rail is key to providing and building affordable units because, you know, with 500,000 new people in 50 years, where will they live? Many of them will live in West Oahu and Central Oahu, but easily a couple hundred thousand can live along the rail line if we build high density transit oriented development. And that's what's happening all over the world. And that means building up. Because if we don't build up, then we have to build out. And we have limited land, as you know. We don't have enough land to build out unless we go into our agriculture land and our conservation land, which people want to preserve. Now, but we can't build up or out without the infrastructure you talked about. So we didn't get the money for infrastructure? Well, there are. Is that what you said? We didn't get the money that I wanted to get, but there's still money out there for infrastructure. We have an affordable housing rental fund. We have Durf, an urban revolving fund that developers can tap into. And there are millions of dollars in these funds for developers to apply for. However, we need more. But I'm thinking infrastructure like sewers and water and electricity and cable and all of those things. We need more money. We need that. Yes, we do. And so how do you build those high rises without putting this in? Well, developers themselves who come in to build, they have access to funds, the developers. Do they have to put in? Well, they can put some in, but government also wants to assist where there's state lands and affordable housing units that are mandated. And money, for example, comes from those two funds I mentioned, Durf and ARF. But we also have the conveyance tax that is collected whenever there's a real estate sale. And that could bring in anywhere from 50 to $100 million a year as well. So there are resources and revenues, but we always need more because of this. We have a major shortage of inventory. Right now we have an aging infrastructure. Every day there's a water main break. Every day we see this aging infrastructure. And so my thought is that I know that some of that is the county, some of it is the state, and we need to look at those kinds of things today because that's today. Most of the infrastructure that you're talking about is under the jurisdiction of the county. And they are looking at it. Our property taxes go towards that, the surfees. But at the end of the day, government's revenue stream or resources is this much, but the needs and demands of everybody are this much. So that's the dilemma we have in government. I found in my 26 years, Marcia, governing is expensive and is not cheap. It is. Everybody's needs and wants and how do we take care of it? And that's why we have to prioritize everything that everyone wants every year at the council or at the legislature does not get funded or passed because we are limited. Well, and we are limited with time. Somehow that always catches up with us. Thank you so much. And will you come again? I definitely will. Please. I look forward to the invitation. Thank you so much.