 Hi everybody, it's Barbara Tint with the Applied Improvisation Network and I am here to share a conversation with you with Ella Aman who is a long-standing friend and colleague based in Berlin Germany and I've invited Ella into a conversation with us because her work has been on resilience and applied improvisation and if there was ever a time when we needed to draw from our resilience, collectively it would be now. So Ella, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. Thank you for having me, Barbara. Nice to meet you these times, yeah. So you probably know some people who are watching this and many who you don't so maybe you can tell us a little bit about your work and how resilience has come into being during this time. Yeah, so I'm working in the field of resilience now since 25 years and collecting the work of resilience was applied improv also since 20 years, 25 years professionally and yeah in these days it's exactly what we need right now. We need the capacity of resilience so the natural capacity of the body, the mind, the psychological capacities of resilience and deal with crisis and deal with the unexpected and the moment of crisis is the moment when we can't move on with all the routines or habits or resources we have and when times of challenge, when the time is challenging us right now and we experienced the feeling of oh my god I'm so overloaded I'm stressed I'm not able to know what to do in the next moment then you have this little moment of a potential crisis and normally the body and the system and the mind are capable to be creative and open, start learning, improvising and then you find your way through this moment and it doesn't have to become a real crisis but when the circumstances and maybe your physical or also psychological health is not really stable then a crisis like now can be out of the balance and then you go into this mode of crisis so like maybe you're familiar with this the path of the crisis like you start with a shock and then you deny the crisis and then you get anger and then later on you go through the depression and then from there you can do a restart or a new start so we have different phases of the crisis and that's what we're experiencing right now in Germany. We are kind of in the phase of denying now after six or seven weeks of being in a shock and now a lot of people are in this kind of mode of well nothing happened everything is okay we don't need coaching no resilience it's not a topic you know this is exactly happening you can really nice to see how all the curve is now walking around these different phases of crisis and at the same time I know a lot of people who don't experience a real crisis so that's really a very interesting phenomena I can see right now I'm teaching resilience now since over 12 years and what we can see people who are very well trained in resilience or give resilience trainings they have much more capacities to be in with these days also people who do improve for a long time so this is such a benefit for people have these skills to manage or to deal with the unexpected things now and to have your improvisational skills really awake from this phase. Thanks for that. What I'm hearing in some ways is the way you've described the cycle of crisis also sounds like the cycle of grief that that people often go through and that people are in different places in that cycle and one of the things I'm seeing is people somehow feeling like there's something wrong with them if they're not further along you know and that sounds to me like part of the work is supporting people wherever they are which is also a very foundation improvisational principle I'm wondering if you can give us sort of your definition of resilience or what are the what are the quality of resilience that you would identify? Yeah so when when I work with resilience it's a very simple definition it's the quality or it's the capacity of tolerance you have when you deal with pressure or when you deal with something that is you know we say it's a window of tolerance so your system so it's the homoestasis of your nervous system and so when you are stressed the subparticles is becoming active and so you go into this quiet or freeze mode and after this acting this stress out then normally you go into a mode of relaxation and the power of some particles goes down the vagus now becomes active so and then you find a good homoestasis around this and and here is the window of tolerance that we call the resilience and the resilience can be small or it can be bigger to tolerate a stress and this is one once one possibility to define or keep a definition for resilience and this is one that's important for me when I when I work in the field of health when I work in the field of innovation or culture then the definition of resilience is a little bit different but this is the principle of you have a situation where where where the where you have pressure and the system and the system is able after the pressure to bounce back into the normal state and from when I see it from the theoretical perspective of a model I have this axis of change and stability and resilience is the capacity in the middle that you find a situative balance between change and stability change and stability or edge in you know you have your edge agility in the system you are flexible you can move you can you know your body can can be very flexible and adaptable and on the other side you need stability your system has form has culture and this is the real-time learning in between these fields of stability and agility that's my definition of resilience and the moment yeah thank you and what I what I'm understanding from what you're saying is that it's physical it's psychological intellectual right that it's something that we process on on many levels exactly yeah so the interdisciplinary applied research around resilience this is really a very wide range so your patient system for example you talk about resilience the brain is a part of your resilience capacity to how do you say it's the capacity of restructuring your brain after an injury for example the nervous system is a very important part and so it's always a combination between physical and psychological and also personality personality also very important aspect of resilience because every person is working differently and have different personal of psychological needs and when these needs are not served then everybody is working differently to stress or things that are stressful for you can be great for me you know I can experience this right now in the crisis of in this corona crisis I know so many people who are really flourishing at this time right now it's unbelievable you know other people shut down you know people really need to be very active with other people need to be interactive and need a lot of social contact they are suffering so much and walk by people who like to be alone more intellectual people know what to do you know they use the time for reorganizing their lives so it's so different how people cope with this situation right right right and and that speaks to some of what I was thinking about before which is you know it's it's a fairly human phenomenon to compare our experiences right and for the people who are struggling seeing all the people who are thriving it can add to a sense of you know disease because you know I've heard a lot of people kind of what's wrong with me why can't I write great you know the great novel I've been wanting to write all this time and that frame you offer between stability and change is really quite significant right now because we've all had to change very quickly and for a lot of people change is very active and stability may be very fragile which is why you know I think we are in what we would call a collective crisis does that yeah because we had you know we have for statistics from from our diagnostics so we're working with a diagnostic diagnostic tool and from there we can see that for example my baby blood generation we have more people in our German culture also in the German town are more intellectual and value-oriented and more in their brains from from nature you know when they wake up in the morning they're first in the brain and then later they go into the body and feeling and into the emotions and they become social so they're different ways of experiencing the world and in Germany we have a lot of high intellectual analytical people for a high value-oriented because we grew up in a time where everything was predictable we are in quality so looking for the details looking for structure we are architects we design in a way of engineers you know that's very funny to see and I work in a company and we see in the statistics a lot of people with this high value or analytical skills they need a lot of safety then a lot of planning then a lot of structure or good information to feel safe you know to feel positive to feel resilient about what's going on and right now when these people don't have these informations anymore and you don't have anybody who gives you direction or orientation and or enough space or time to collect the information and structure it and these people are so stressed and in the last 10 years where the book about becomes more more or a topic also in our business world these people are really freaking out because 20 years ago to be good and to be successful at work they had a lot of time they could go in details they could really enjoy the way they wanted to work and these days notice a 70% is okay work agile and then iterate from there and to some groups and you know and they say no no no I can't do that you know I have to have to dive deep deep into into information and and on the other side when I work for a startup then we have a lot of creative active people who like to change they are looking for inspiration all the time you know a lot of input people are high active and and creative and so it can't be crazy enough for them to be to be happy you know and and to improvise and to be with the unknown the whole time and since we have this data it's it's much more easier for us to see what's the culture we're working in how much improvisational culture do we have other people happy with the way we are in because there are also different styles of input to improvise and that makes it for us much easier to to connect psychological needs also to what people need to be feel safe and and to be strong and also to have their kind of personal way to improvise that's very different for person yeah yeah I just want to make sure people know what you mean when you say wooka world so the volatile uncertain complex ambiguous world is the term wooka and also for people who don't know that was the theme of our applied improvisation network conference in Berlin in what year was that 2013 2013 where you were the one of the co-hosts of that conference so thank you many years later for that beautiful effort I know it's hard to believe it's been that long so what kinds of things are you thinking people can do right now to strengthen their resilience because resilience isn't something you either have or you don't right resilience is something you can build you can develop yeah so what kinds of things can people be doing right now to strengthen their resilience during these times yeah so from the from the point of the nervous system the first thing you should always do is what we do right now so reach out for people find ways to connect and when you connect find ways to connect with an option of have a picture the visual connection to another person because the nervous system needs visual signs of a smile eyes even if it be with you don't have to have to make a little bit like this so that I can see your mouth and your eyes and your how do you call this wrinkles the creases the creases very important to have or talks is not not not helping at this point so and so this is really very very important as you can purchase I made a great video a few weeks ago in March and and he was really pointing out reach out for people and even if you just can hear a voice that can be beautiful also because the voice gives us also a feeling of being connected be in a state of social right now because when you have a lot of stress and you really really good in self-regulation then it's much in these days for you but not everybody has this capacity for self-regulation all the time the most people in our society are meeting the correlation and correlation as we need to calm down to calm down the stress and this is one of the most important things reach out and the next thing what you can do is create rituals so this is also what gives your day a structure more fine more stability to kind of sorry more stability yeah well when the book of worlds like this then then you need to to look for where's form where structure little things that he over the day so find some things you like to do and what's good for you but do it regularly find a rhythm to do it and so slow down the super improvisation of become a little more structured so that that can really help and this gives gives a lot of safety another thing I would I would recommend is see that there is a good body and brain connection so especially when you at home it's there about that that you stay connected to your body because when you just go into your brain and you're always sitting on in front of the computer or just laying down or watching TV or something from there when the when the system is not really opening up so when you just pull under your bed all the time then the psychological system will go down a little bit so what I can recommend is to some power-posing in between you know have this yes and gestures try to open up yeah just stay in the room for one or two minutes open open open your arms to a little bit she gone or to some some exercises to some Joe yoga it's ten minutes a day five minutes a day that's enough but if your system every day a little bit open up look look that also the whole just in principle inside that it can wake up every day for a few minutes so that gives you a little bit more better homo status of your home your hormones hormones hormones and hormones yeah yeah home and these are little little things but it's it's also to you told me today before you you go regularly for walk outside with your dog you know it's great when you have a little patch so that helps you to stay in motion so stay in motion go and go to the internet reach out for one of these dancing groups for example you know dance in the kitchen do something you know but don't forget your body it's so important that you stay connected to the whole system and yeah stay connected also with fun and play this is one of the most important things say it is see that the nervous system is really has its play times I don't know how it is in in America but we have so many beautiful improv sessions online you can do improv every day nearly it's beautiful you find people to play with you find people to talk with doing funny exercises and and I think this right now is a good time to just have to also for fun you know we do a lot of applied improv with various areas but I think I recommend in these days just to just play into something regularly this is just the and then basic needs are coming you know food drink and take care of all the stuff around yeah when there's too much stress you know what's happening drinking smoking whatever is your your little your little whole would you say it in English compensation oh yeah you know and just sometimes just we regulate yourself and then wait one or two minutes till you take the next cake or take the next shop work or take the next trip so bring time into the system when you when you have these times you have a lot of experience of impact you know it's very tight the system is tight yes a lot of fear and whatever is happening to us just always like give space open up and give time and it's like this is a basic work which you can do also in trauma just give your give yourself more space this is very very important and sometimes when you really have a panic attack or something is happening to the basics like I don't know if you know so some tapping techniques so basic type of techniques or what's very you know something that is we offer the stuff the stuff of this exercise we have regular online meetings where we where we do these stuff with people so they can go online and as a friend of mine she's doing a lot of people work also or doing this tapping regularly every second day she has a course and a very simple things also like you know being context just feel here I'm here I'm there call things by name you know what when you release to the rest of your elbow finger nose you know here it's it's about orientation this is what we do when we when we are doing improv a lot you know we find in cop orientation it's so important to know who I am where I am what do I feel okay where am I okay here's my finger here's my nail you know like bringing your consciousness into the moment is so important because the brain these days when you get fear or stress it's running away and you go into your fear and your fantasies of what can happen and then you are not here anymore so everything that helps you to orient yourself play improv with yourself you know play I'm a tree and I'm the bird of the tree and I'm the I'm the son on the bird that is on the tree or something you know play with yourself and whatever so to improve and but just something that gives you the moment of mindful respect so at the moment for the moment yeah yeah so helpful I and you know as we look at the cause of trauma and challenge being physiological emotional psychological intellectual spiritual then then the remedies have to also be in all of those claims so the physical the relational all the different ways we can bring ourselves back and I I'm thinking a lot about the really important improv principle of being here focused in the moment and seeing what's next because I think a lot of the anxiety that people are carrying is about you know the future and that's really anxiety is about the future and so all the things you're talking about are helping us to be in the present now in this moment now and strengthen our kind of internal support for that yeah so basic inner work this is now the time for inner work and to really find all these connections there's a lot of stuff more what you can do intellectually but I wouldn't recognize recommend first like all this intellectual coaching exercises like right yeah you can do that right down few things that went well today you know all the stuff we have these in books you know everybody has a helping self-help book in the shelf but you can all but what's much more important than just starting intellectually working with the brain is start with body yeah so important connect to reconnect the system to it now yeah yes so I'm wondering if there's any kind of short improv activity that you would do with me right now that would be an example of something we could do to strengthen our resilience yeah we can we can do maybe we can do a little we can do a little combination between a power pose and storytelling okay great yeah that's a very simple thing I do with clients a lot so how are you start we can see so maybe we are let's say we are in a in a store or something you know and and you bought something that was really really you were not happy with what you bought okay so I should slice her and you're very angry and very tight no and then now always when I say oh let me check this and I put this paper here then this is a sign for you to put your hands behind find the reason to lay back and then try to be angry okay okay and see what's great hello hi how can I help you well I'm very upset I bought this milk and I've been needing this milk and it's sour and I can't use it in my coffee and there's no other milk in the store that's so interesting so I like that down so milk is so can you tell me a little bit more about what happened so when did you buy the milk I bought it yesterday so what was the experience when you bought the milk how was it here in the store just say well I mean everybody was very nice and I really was looking forward to the milk because I had milk at home yeah yeah who helped you to get the milk was it my colleague or who helped you with that yeah was this guy named Jim yeah he's a very nice guy yeah yeah yeah he has two little kids it's very beautiful so that the kids sometimes come to the store and then he's playing with the kids and the milk and so that's so nice so yeah so what what happened then I went home well so I was so excited to have coffee with milk which I haven't had in weeks because I haven't been able to find milk and then I poured it and it was sour and after all this time of waiting to have milk in my coffee I couldn't I couldn't have milk in my coffee did you maybe put the milk into the sun or something so that it no sure no I did not milk in the sun are you saying it's my fault no no no no I'm just exploring a little bit what happened in detail you know because it's very important that I make these notes so I can I can go to the to the person who I got the milk from so to see if we have more problems with other milk yeah we don't want anyone else to have this problem yeah so how do you feel when you when you do this how long can you stay angry it's very hard you know I mean like I feel like I'm on a like you know a Caribbean island relaxing it's very hard to be angry even when I was trying to be I was smiling I noticed yeah so it's how I do this a lot with my clients you know it's a very simple improv exercise like this when you bring stuff back and you have these conversations and normally they they go into anger anger anger and then you have this funny conversation but when you give these signs of relaxation then it's when you do it for one or two minutes and then the people try to stay angry it's so fun yeah and it's possible you know and this is what what you can do for example when it's about so what's happening with my life and the corona crisis how many people will become ill when you maybe have this conversation also online with people who are really freaking out just give them you know that there are different possibilities you know this is a little provocative when you just you know somebody's telling you and then you make like this but but it's like back a little bit yeah for example you know you can you can do also do like this or really nice put your legs on the on the table to like this you know make it in little steps step by step and then from here very slowly and then after two or three minutes go into this and you will see the other person go lonely relax and relax and then you know yeah yeah that makes a big difference you know when you're sitting here in front of a zoom and you always know when you say okay I can right now not intellectually reach for the person because he's so stressed but when you are good self regulated then you can open this your own resilience and you can your own resilience and self-regulation to the other person then you can co-regulate and that's not and that's a very easy little technique to calm down yourself relax yourself and then give this big invitation for the other person also to change the way you're talking about things yeah part of what I'm taking away also is that in this absence of our physical ability to connect with each other that it's more and more important for us to physically connect with ourselves so that my ability to relate to you even through the screen is based on a groundedness and a connection I know I'm struggling with the desire to connect with people and the overwhelmingness I'm feeling about so much screen time so sometimes I feel like I have to choose between connecting and having my brain explode and so this kind of work you know keeping me grounded physically it's really important to allow you to maintain connection yeah yeah and also experiment a little bit with the way standing sitting change positions but I sometimes do I just change the higher you know that also I'm I have from one conversation to the next different different angles my system always seems to be small you know it's these are little things but the body's record in these days you know when we really want to solve this problem of stress and stay with it we have to work with body that's really the most important thing and the connection and have have a good connection you know eye contact and and take care of what the voice for example when you would talk to somebody and your nervous system is recognizing that the person is maybe to pass all the time and all the time and talking and talking and talking and you know that's a it's we call this is over coupling so then you should never listen longer than maybe half a minute and I see or he was say oh hey hey clouds that's a cool thing what you said like and then interrupt you know because then the people normally go into the story and of the past of the stress and then bring them back to the moment and say oh yeah yeah I can understand that that was very stressful yesterday how's it today tell me how's it now tell me a little about how what what you are experiencing now in the moment you know this is really bring in this improv mindset again from here now because then they have to step out of the spiral when you very nice very polite and you listening five minutes somebody's going into the spiral then you go into the spiral yes and then worry goes into viral right you know and both what we but we have to be very professional in these days with us with ourselves well one of the things that helped when I was doing this was also your voice I mean you were very even very soothing very calm very positive so you were listening to me but you weren't hooking into my anger right you were you were helping me go forward in on a different path is how I felt and so I think also the relational quality of what we can do for each other during stressful times is to provide some of that calming response pattern yeah from the input point of view I switched into the mode of tell me more go more in details you know I it's not advanced it's more detail expand the color so yeah yeah so beautiful yeah well I could talk to you all day but I know it's nighttime there and I want to respect your time and I have a feeling we'll have more to to bring you in and thank you so much for the time and I'm glad you're staying safe and I know Germany has slowly reopened so we'll be watching to see what happens there and whether it's during this crisis or not your skills and your knowledge are very valuable I know you've written books on resilience and I'm waiting for the English translation of it and yeah yeah it's a start it's wonderful to see you yeah thank you so much thank you so much for our room by playing with me that was so nice so from burning Germany we will I okay bye bye bye bye