 We're back with the breakfast and it's you know the very fastest you know segment here if you like to see your topic for us we're looking at the power sector especially generation however there's been several reports about you know our generating capacity and the fact that we've lost resources the availability of generation capacity in Nigeria's power sector dropped again in 2022 as it crashed from six million three hundred and thirty six thousand point five two megawatts recorded in 2021 to five million three hundred and forty six thousand point eight two megawatts as of okay that's uh five thousand of course five thousand three hundred and forty six point eight two and of course six thousand three hundred and thirty six point five two uh bells of last year data being made available to electricity generation has been reported it was also observed that the annual capacity payment lost to power generation companies had increased to 1.8 trillion era as data from the document for the showed a decrease in the average utilized power in 2022 now figures obtained from the power generation companies indicated that while the average quantum of electricity utilized in 2021 was around four thousand one hundred and eleven point nine eight megawatts it dropped to three thousand nine hundred and forty point five four megawatts you know in 2022 the document and power generation trend uh that's between 2013 where it was privatized to uh 2022 showed that Nigeria's average availability or available generation capacity fluctuated between four thousand megawatt and seven thousand seven hundred megawatts since the sector was privatized uh then in 2013 so there are too many questions around you know generation of power if we're looking at the power sector uh what exactly is responsible for the stagnation of power generation since it was privatized and all of the excuses for privatization and now how do we solve the problem of unutilized generation because there's one thing to say we're not even generating enough to cater for the population uh that we have 218 million persons uh but what do we also do do we evacuate all of the power that we generate or that's been generated these are some of the uh conversations that we like to understand and have answers so this morning to make sense of all of that Nika Gule joins us. Nika is so good to know that you're joining us this morning uh for Makadi. Thank you very much Misi. I'm happy to be here and good morning to our viewers. So but really let's let's talk about this uh what are your thoughts an overview of this uh report. This report is overwhelming because the power situation in Nigeria is shameful, shameful because Nigeria is a gas producing nation and all over the world as we speak today regardless of the developments that are happening in the renewable energy sector gas is the largest source of power generation in the world as we speak today so to think that a country that is a major gas producer in fact Nigeria has more gas resources than could wear that this nation is unable to generate transmit and distribute electricity to her citizens is very shameful this is one of the things that Nigeria shouldn't be suffering from but because of the ineptitude in our leadership we are suffering Nigeria should actually be generating close to 200,000 megawatts of electricity per day because that is the global average that is the global benchmark that you generate 1000 megawatts per one million people so if Nigeria is 200 million people and above then our electricity generation should be getting to the 200,000 megawatts and we are doing 4,000, 3,000, 5,000 as the report you are quoting is showing imagine that you should be earning 200,000 but you are only earning 4,000 never poverty will not flee from you and that is why Nigeria is paying down in poverty because there is a direct correlation between electricity and development in this modern industrial and info age if you have no electricity you can never have development so it is shameful is the submission and my summary to this report well we know that the figures have been dropping since 2018 I mean at some point it felt like it was better but from 2018 the figures you know keep dropping but looking at the sector entirely we have been looking at 100 megawatts growth in the past sector for a very long time now that's an annual thing especially since privatization so my question is do you think that we have a future there's a future of a par generation in Nigeria with the 100 megawatts growth that's been recorded in the sector at 100 megawatts increase in generation per year there is no future it is abysmally so low it can never be said there's a future but you see like we said the other day we can no longer be advising president Buhari because he has five months left in his tenure I believe that president Buhari will be by now writing his handover notes so our attention is turning to the new government that will take power on May the 29th to that government I want to say that you can bring hope you can bring the future into the Nigerian power sector in very easy ways number one Nigeria is producing gas and a large quantum of that gas is being fled once the next government comes into office they should stop gas flaring and what did you do with the gas you channel those that gas into turbines let's see the concept of power generation using gas is so so simple there is an equipment that is called a turbine when you install that equipment you put gas into that equipment on the other side we come electricity it is as simple as that and these turbines are available all over the world they can be both of the shape some can be manufactured within weeks a turbine is manufactured because the technology is already there it is tested it's been there over time and it's just for the next president to commission a tax force that will start installing turbines all over the Niger data so that the gas that is being flared today will be powered into those turbines and electricity will be generated for Nigeria you see the other thing is we have a transmission capacity of about 12,000 megawatts and generation so far as you have seen in this report is hovering between anything 3000 to 6000 so that means there is capacity on transmission where if this electricity that will be generated by these turbines is pushed in transmission will carry it and when transmission carries it it will then go to distribution when it goes to distribution you can see clearly today that there is a market for electricity that is not being fulfilled anywhere there is power failure in Nigeria today that's a market that distribution is unable to fulfill so the next government can set off this tax force and I tell you with these six months we are going to begin to experience major differences in the electricity sector and we will no longer be talking about 100 megawatts increase we'll be talking about thousands five thousand ten thousand increase yearly until we at least get to like 50,000 then we'll begin to know that okay we have started making progress in the electricity sector so that is what the next government has to do and I'm not yet speaking about the other energy sources that we have Nigeria has an abundance of energy sources we have the sunlight daily almost eight to ten hours of pure sunshine we go to Europe now it's winter that we not see sunshine for more than two hours we have water all the rivers can be converted to hydro electricity then we have the wind we have the wind if we go to the bad beach in Lagos it's first turbines with turbines and electricity will be generated for the entire Lagos we try you need any other source and you know the difference between wind turbines and solar is that solar you need batteries because in the night there will be no sun for wind the wind is 24 seven so you don't even need batteries you don't generate the heat from the wind turbine and supply to Lagos and you are sure that that wind is going to blow for 24 hours a day in fact it's just a low-hanging prepair so 100 megawatts is abysmal but the next government can actually make it five to ten thousand megawatts if they do the right things so the right things you have said would be what do you want to go through that again systematically yes so the right thing will be first instead of flaring our gas in the Niger data install turbines which are very much available because the technology is well known is tested it's been there over time install the turbines pipe that gas into the turbines or the other side of the electricity that's one number two begin to tap into the renewable energy sources every river in Nigeria should be dammed when you dam a river this is the economy that develops from that dammy number one hydroelectricity will be generated for the communities around number two you can use that for irrigation that's agricultural number three you can use that for fishing number four you can use that for drinking water so the simple concept of dammy a river this is the economy that develops from it i must say i can tell you that there is no community in Nigeria that does not have a river very recently i flew on on a plane from Abuja to Ula in Adama state it was the first time i was flying to the north not east and i was so so so surprised to see the quantum of land that Nigeria has for agriculture and the number of rivers i saw below as in like every community i was in rivers and that's that was electricity for you and so we talk about the gas turbines we talk about the the water dams we talk about wind turbines wind turbines on the bad beach and they are going to rotate every day 24 several generating legal i mean electricity for the entire southwest yeah then we we're talking about i don't even want to talk about things like biomass you know because these water sources are even in love you have the sunshine there pure sunshine eight to ten hours of sunshine guaranteed every day go to every community and install the to the solar panels and generate electricity and give them there you know if they have anything left put in the national grid so this is the things that need to happen the entire electricity sector needs to be unbounded because you know one thing now people talk about privatization but you see we privatize generation we also privatize distribution but there is a a behemoth in between that is called transmission transmission was not privatized it is in the hands of a government that does not have money a government that is going to pay salaries that government has not been able to increase the capacity on the transmission so what he means is that if you generate transmission must carry it first and if transmission is not there your generation is useless for you to distribute transmission must give you that power to distribute if they don't give you that power to distribute you have nothing to distribute so why has government created this bottleneck between a privatized generation and a privatized distribution so the next government must have to unbundle the whole of this thing privatize the entire value chain on the power sector and I tell you messy look the opportunities are there because we are a country of 200 million people that is demand that is demand for electricity and then we have the energy sources so what is left put them together you know you know that's going to be that's that's going to be you know another part of the conversation so we'll definitely get to that part where if we have the market and the question will follow whether or not we have the market for all of that but when you say a country that does not have money is it a country that does not have money or is a country that is wasting money wasting resources or has been very you know flamboyant with her resources some people will say is a I know I'm bare government what joint parties not necessarily physical parties but you know with the way we are locating resources to things that are not priority is is what people have talked about but I like also to also talk about this issue of the fact that we're not even generating enough to meet up with the standard universal standard of generation and also to meet up with our population but also have the point where even with the fact that we are still grappling with four thousand three thousand megawatts we're still unable to evacuate all of the powers that we have generated all that we have generated and so we're still you know around one thousand megawatts and three thousand seven hundred megawatts I mean what exactly is the problem that we're not even generating enough but as much as we're even generating four thousand we're not even still able to evacuate all that we have generated what is the problem and how do we solve it but thank you very much before I answer that question I want to touch on the very valid point that you have raised about what is Nigeria's problem is it that we don't have money or we're being wasteful with the money that we have I think it's both both because Nigeria's federal government budget I mean this budget that President Buhari just signed of two trillion if you convert that into dollars it's not even up to forty billion dollars it's not even up to forty billion and the same yesterday that President Buhari was signing that budget we've been told about Apple Apple the maker of iPhones and iPads and all of that that their market capitalization just fell below the two trillion dollars mark for the first time in a few years two trillion dollars and Nigeria a country of two hundred million people were signing budget of forty billion dollars forty billion and we're making a match out of it so the money number one is not enough but then W. Jopadi is that the small money that we have is being looted is being wasted so that is why we are paying down where we are now when we come to the question you have raised about generation and what needs to be done you see the problem in Nigeria is that we try to do things but maybe because of vested interests or whatever we don't do them the right way the generation privatization process has happened and a chunk of the power power plants are now in the hands of the private sector but the private sector is not going to be able to generate what transmission cannot carry they are not going to be able to generate what distribution will not be able to supply now transmission number one is in the hands of the government which is a bottleneck then distribution was not privatized in the right way you will see that there is no major power player in the whole world that is in the distribution sector it's different from when we privatize telecoms when we privatize telecoms the MTNs that came the AT Salas and all other that came were already players in the telecoms sector in the region and as well in the world you know and when they came in they were able to come in with their money their expertise their technology to change the telecoms sector in Nigeria the distribution that has happened in Nigeria I mean we know the owners majority of the owners are politically exposed persons you know they have no pedigree in the power sector they don't understand the industry they don't even have the money to invest and so that has now become a problem on the soul so you can see that these are the issues that are involved in the whole value chain of the of the power sector in fact if you ask me I will say that generation is the least of the problem because the people who have invested in in in in generation they have capacity the last of Tony Elumelu they have the capacity to increase capacity in that sector but transmission is a bottleneck which the next government must unbundle and then distribution privatization has to be redone so that it is now giving to those who are major players in the power sector who have what it takes to change that sector until we do this we'll continue to have these conversations and there will be no change well um so let's even talk about the fact that we have a vision called vision uh you know 2030 right and so we're looking at vision 2030 generating 30 000 megawatts is it viable with 100 megawatts annually for a period of time it's certainly not viable at 100 megawatts a year increase in power sector generation if you if you want to move from so 100 megawatts means you need 10 years to have 1000 megawatts so for you to get to 30 000 that means you need 300 years no it's it's not achievable but look let's see the opportunity here because you need 10 years you need 10 years to do a 1000 megawatts because we have to go to 30 000 megawatts 300 300 years because 10 years will give you imagine me reading those figures as you know five million and six million i apparently i'm sure i was looking at some other thing i was looking at us in a different light but we need just 700 because i mean if we if we if we say that okay 100 is what we're doing and then in terms of growth so if we can increase the capacity to say about 700 800 then we probably would be there so what's exactly the issue 20 30 is not far from us we've talked about 2023 today we're here in 2023 2025 is not far you know you talk about 2030 is as close as we're looking at it now so um if it's not viable what exactly is left how much more of the megawatts do we need to make 1000 so we can get there is it that we lack the capacity what exactly is the challenge because that's what we have so there's a vision there's a plan by the government of course which is led by the buharis administration and we know that you know this is actually futuristic we hope that the government comes the next government comes in place and they're also looking at this direction but can we get to you know 30 000 megawatts by you know 2030 so i might see you have touched on the nerves of the conversation and as you say what's the issue what's the challenge there's only one issue there's one challenge in this whole thing we're discussing and the answer is simple the government is superintendent over the power sector the government is a player in the power sector and i can tell you globally any sector where the government is in charge doesn't do well and when you now look at nigeria where institutions are not strong and all of that it really compounds the problem what is the simple solution the simple solution is to do to the power sector what we have done to the telecom sector i don't know how you were there but messy when i was growing up for you to make a phone call you will go to night's office maybe in the midnight and go and kill and then buy those cards and try to make a phone call you know the night had this one we called not mine not which was their their mobile phone then which was only available in big cities like abuja and legos you know they were in fact a minister a minister in the government as a den say telephone was not for the poor this was the kind of shenanigans that we're hearing in the telecom sector why because a government bishimoto called night care was in charge fast forward to the 2000s when privatization came in and the nts came in and they brought their money their expertise their technology today we have phone coverage from an average of about 500 000 lines before privatization nigeria is having uh almost 200 million lines of telephone today and the contribution to the gdp is humongous for a mere less than one percent we're talking about 20 percent now so that it won't happen very privatized so the simple solution to this is that just hand over the power sector the same way we did telecom with the private sector and once you do that messy look you will not even know that this is nigeria again because the power sector have a bigger impact on the economy and development than even the telecoms and you know everything is in place we started to talk about demand there was a professor that sat a professor in legos he said he's a professor in the power sector he sat on tv and was saying that oh nigeria one of the problems in nigeria the truth sector is that there is no demand and i wrote an article to criticizing i want to read the article i appointed the professor to the fact that anywhere in nigeria you see a generator anywhere from the a better passenger generator to the humongous 500 uh mega uh i mean uh 500 kva that you see even 1000 kva that you see in nigeria that is demand that is not fulfilled by the electricity sector the generator in nigeria is demand that the electricity sector did not fulfill if the electricity sector fulfill that demand the generator will not be there so there is demand then the energy sources are there will discuss about them what is there for life is just to convert the energies uh energy resources them to where the demand is so that we can carry all the generators who are planted every place and and export them if nigeria has 24 seven bar supply we need a generator again now we need to go i mean you have said that we have the markets because i was going to ask that if we do have a market i mean what's the essence of saying that you have a market and then you don't have the structure so if you say we have a market what is the you know dynamics uh surrounding it so we have a market and like i said every generator in nigeria is demand for electricity that is not being fulfilled so the simple dynamics here is this we have the supply we through the energy resources we have we have the market what is in between is to be able to convert those energy resources into electricity transmit it and distribute it but this cannot happen if the government is superintendent over the sector the government must let go the electricity sector the way the detail it comes that is the answer well we have to go down it's as good as almost saying yes we know that we have the market but what happens when we're not utilizing the market what structures do we have in place have we been able to sort out the basic necessities at the end of the day you begin to ask yourself do we really have a market because if we do have a market then we'll be walking towards all of that but nika gule it's been quite interesting talking about this with you this morning on the breakfast thank you so much we appreciate your time thank you very much messiah have a nice day have a nice day viewers and we continue to repeat it go and get your voters cars i know that i make us immediately easy voters cars are either the local government or the world some of you are in Lagos abuja you have to travel to your world or to your states local government to collect them pay please go because that is an investment we need to take back our country all right that's it this morning we take a break when we return we'll be looking at our second conversation i mean stakeholders have decried the government's not being responsible for ensuring the takeoff of the mro just stay with us when we return we'll talk some more