 People of the Internet welcome to modern-day debate tonight. We have Brenton Lingle crossing swords with Alec Stein 99 for your Enjoyment they're going to be debating Trans athletes in women's sports. So we have Brenton opening the floor for his 10 minute opening statement Brenton the floor is all yours at your first word Great. So before we start though, I did want to say so guys I just funded my very first graphic novel ever it is called it is Snow White Zombie apocalypse my twice-ringo nominated series You'll see a bit from the cover behind me. You can still get it So check out the link below if you want to pre-order the book It is happening. We're fully funded, but you know, you want to jump on this train at the beginning That's a good way to go. All right, so to begin The topic tonight should trans women compete in women's sports is a topic that is surprisingly close to me For though. I am not trans myself I am someone who from most of his life the world has tried to place into one box or another and always these are boxes that I simply Do not fit as such I have an innate compassionate reaction when I see others try to force Complicated human beings to lie down on the proverbial bed of procrastinates Running in artistic circles. I tend to rub shoulders with trans folk more frequently than your average American and whenever I do I am frequently struck by the quiet courage resilience and dignity displayed by these Individuals, but more so I am also a lifelong athlete growing up from age 7 to 18 I was a competitive swimmer participating in summer winter and high school leagues in which I frequently set records Competed in zones and won more blue ribbons trophies and plaques than I could count I was captain of my high school swim team and after aging out I became a coach for four years founding and managing a team for nearly 200 athletes several of whom went on to have similar careers and even won college scholarships I am also an Appalachian trail 2000 miler which means I have traversed all 2200 miles of the American wilderness from North Maine to Georgia I did this entirely on foot carrying everything that I owned on my back And I am a showdown a first-degree black belt in Kyokushin karate a uniquely brutal style of full contact martial arts Which forms the basis of many famous kickboxers and MMA fighters Including Guy Metzger Bass Rudin and George St. Pierre and also and I think this is particularly cool Ivan Drago himself Dolph Lundgren. He's a Sondan by the way I have scored a knockout in international competition and competed in a 15-man kumite Which is 15 concurrent full contact fights undertaken without rest or water in a row So it is safe to say that sports athletics and competition are things that I both know and care quite a bit about and that is why I'm so excited to have this dialogue trans women have likely been competing with cis women for as long as women's sports have existed They have been competing openly since the mid 1970s and have officially distinguished themselves at the highest levels of collegiate professional and Olympian competition since 2004 yet even now 17 years later with a multitude of scientific studies reaffirming the International Olympic Committee's decision to permit them to compete and After having undergone two years of hormone replacement therapy There are a number of number of shall we say busy-body culture warriors who seem to have an issue with them being allowed to compete in a Way that honors them their competitors and the sport now under no circumstances Do I mean to paint with a broad brush public opinion is always far behind the scientific consensus on a given issue and We as a society have been raised to treat transgendered individuals with varying levels of suspicion discussed and even outright hatred fear and Hostility trans women in particular have been vilified as both comical and untrustworthy by our movies and media for as long as movies and media have Existed and I remember in particular growing up in the 80s and 90s and seeing films like Ace Ventura and Silence of the Lambs Neither of which aged particularly well to say the least So if you are one of those people who simply feels a certain level of instinctual discomfort with the idea of men competing against women Know that there is a reason you are having that reaction You have been primed to feel that way through no fault of your own It doesn't mean you're cracker von patriarch It just means you have something to learn and the fact is all of us do to paraphrase Herodotus Call no man fully educated until he is dead because you I we will continue to learn and grow and change every second of our lives And that is exactly how it should be Concerns about creating an unfair competitive advantage is one of the most often cited reasons for resistance to the participation of transgendered athletes and Most often cited in discussions about competing on women's teams Some people are concerned that allowing transgender women to compete on women's teams will take away Opportunities from women or that transgender women will have a competitive advantage These concerns are usually based in three assumptions one that transgender women are not real women And therefore are not deserving of an equal competitive opportunity to the being born with a male body Automatically gives a transgender woman an unfair advantage when competing against non-transgender women and three That men might be tempted to pretend to be transgender in order to compete with women and win an easy victory While understandable, none of these assumptions are very well-founded in the matter of the first the scientific consensus is Overwhelmingly clear on this issue by every objective measure and regardless of determinations of their sexual expression Trans women are women. This is because sex and gender are distinct concepts to quote nature journal the single most prestigious Scientific publication in the entire Western world sex is a classification based on internal and external bodily characteristics and gender is a social construct related to biological differences But also rooted in culture societal norms and individual behavior Whatever the cause organizations such as the American Academy of Pediatrics Advise physicians to treat people according to their preferred gender Regardless of appearance or genetics the research in medical community now see sex as more complex than male and female and gender as a Spectrum that includes transgender people and those who identify as neither male nor female So to be clear sex and gender are two different things and women is a term relating to gender and not sex thus Scientifically trans women are real women and should be treated as such and thus are deserving of an equal competitive opportunity Second being born with a male body does not automatically give a transgendered woman an unfair advantage when competing against cis women Particularly not one who has undergone Hormone replacement therapy for the requisite two years to quote a systemic review of the data Published in the New Zealand Journal of Sports Medicine in conclusion There is no direct or consistent research suggesting transgendered individuals have an athletic advantage at any stage of their transition And therefore competitive sports policies that place restrictions on transgendered people need to be considered and potentially revised Now that may sound shocking to many of you who might not know much about sports But the fact is this is not at all surprising if you're familiar with what hormone replacement therapy does to a person and have a Solid understanding of sports and the philosophy of competition HRT which blocks testosterone and increases estrogen and trans women leads to a marked decrease in muscle mass and increase in weight and Saps your built bloods ability to carry oxygen from the heart and lungs to your muscles Literally limiting your ability to engage in cardiovascular activity So when transitioning a trans woman loses much of her muscular advantage puts on weight and loses the ability to fuel her muscles With necessary oxygen to the degree that her body previously could as an example to prepare for this debate I interviewed a competitive bolder a rock climber who prior to her transition ran marathons Now I've run a marathon It's one of the single most difficult and grueling events you could ever put your body through prior to her transition Her VO2 max was in the top 5% and keep in mind while elite female runners and similar athletes have a higher VO2 level Then most men men tend to on average have a 20% higher level of VO2 than women after her transition Her VO2 levels plummeted putting her on par with the average female athlete She went from running at 5k in 25 minutes to nearly doubling her time to 45 minutes quote I might as well have been power walking. She told me once you're blocking testosterone and taking estrogen You have to work twice as hard to be half as good She got injured more easily took longer to heal and has been forced to rely almost entirely upon technique Worst of all her power ratio plummeted as her weight increased and the muscle volume decreased She lost a great deal of explosive power and now struggles to manage more than 10 consecutive pull-ups When before she could do 30 without difficulty so to say it again There is no direct or consistent research suggesting transgendered individuals have an athletic advantage at any stage of their transition And if they did surely we would see a near total domination of women's sports in the Olympics and similar events by trans women over the last 17 years This has not happened and so assumption number two is disproven Now finally we have assumption number three and this is the idea that men will take advantage of these rules and Pretend to be women to score an easy win This is idiotic one of the high schools. I attended was in a small town now. I'm not that old I remember very well one of the other boys at my lunch table would frequently and loudly remarked that if he were president He'd run up all the gay people in the country put them on an island and blow them all to hell with a tactical nuclear strike How do you think he would have reacted if I came in one day wearing a dress and telling everyone I was a woman? How many cis men would risk the kind of abuse? Trans women go through just to win a few medals or set a record the data bears this out to quote the NC double Transgender handbook in the entire 40-year history of sex verification procedures in international sports competitions No single interest instance of such fraud has ever been revealed instead rather than identifying men who are trying to fraudulently Compete as women sex verification tests have been misused to humiliate and unfairly exclude women with intersex Conditions this argument is so stupid. I genuinely have trouble believing anyone advances it in good faith So there you have it the three objections addressed and three objections disproven be on the shadow of a doubt But just in case you're still not convinced that the playing field is level I'm gonna take this one step further because from a philosophy of sports perspective None of this is that actually matters We are missing the force for the trees The fact is that and truly even playing field is impossible and if sports were just about bringing your own Inborn advantages to bear in a perfectly controlled environment. No one would care about sports. That's time Yeah, thank you very much All right, thank you so much Brenton for your opening statement and we'll kick it over to Alex for his 10 minute opening statement The floor is all yours at your first word. Oh Wait, you're muted one second and you're unmuted now. All right. I Appreciate the you're robotting one second. Can you hear me? Can hear you but I'm a robotting still robotting. What does that mean like my mic? Like a Dalek Um, it might be a driver's issue. You can try talking quieter or maybe call in on like do you have an iPhone or something? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I have no idea why it's doing that It was working with what did you before? Can you hear me now? You can hear you still doing it. Maybe resell the microphone unplug it plug it back in. Yeah, that might work Yeah, this this happened during my debate against noted egg enthusiast Stefan Malinou my partner Had the same problem. It was a driver's issue. Like he rebooted his computer right before the debate and Pat press F to pay respects. I feel like my cat might repeat on them. I could run up in out of town That might be it seriously the audio. Well, I'll let you know while he's trying to get is it so bad on your end It's so bad there. It's really bad. Yeah, it's really bad. It's really bad. It's really bad. It's really bad It's really really bad Really, okay, that's getting better now. Wait, wait, wait, wait. You just you just started. What did you do differently just now? I didn't do anything differently. The people on my chatter saying it sounds fine. It sounds good right now. I don't know why Yeah, just go with it right now. All right. Hope it stays Okay, well, we'll see hopefully it works. Um, looks like it's fine on my end All right. Well, uh, we started that as a very spirited beginning to the debate, which I appreciate that But I guess we used an example Britain used an example of like one innocuous athlete that nobody's ever heard of and how like They went from like 30 push-ups like zero push-ups or something weird like that But let me just tell you something The an application that everybody knows about is a person named Leah Thomas Who swam on the men's team for three years and was ranked the 457th ranked swimmer and then magically After, you know, this hormone replacement therapy that he talked about that that evens a playing field He went from the number one swimmer in the nc double a Now for me, I would say that that's highly unusual. That's weird that there's like, I guess, you know He was ranked behind 456 swimmers. So I think they would all if there is 456 men swimmers They were better than him if they all transitioned their sex And they would still be better than the top girl in the swimming championship So we when we really look at the idea of transgender women playing against actual biological women the reason why we have a problem with it Because we have the same people that will say that transgender women can have a baby Which you know, that's not possible because a transgender woman doesn't have a uterus So transgender woman does not have ovaries. So it's impossible So it's not the same a transgender woman is not the same as a biological woman because they can't have a baby And now we just look at like the simple, you know, we have people like I don't know. I mean, I don't want to speak for him But if you google it can men have babies, it will say yes Why? Because women that transition to a man can have a baby But see in sports, we don't have a problem There's no other applications that are similar to lea thomas like the number 457th woman Then transitioning her sex to a man and competing against the man There's no application of that because that would be absurd because They don't have an advantage Now if you want to live in a clown world where you think women Are stronger than men or women have the same physical ability as men Then why is women's golf or men's golf? Why is the t closer on women's golf? Why is the wmba much less competitive than the mba? But I think it's very simple because there is a competitive advantage There is a different biological nature. You have people like kintaji brown jackson when they asked her to define a woman She said I can't do that. I'm not a biologist Insinuating that biology Defines our gender or our sex now. He says our gender is a social construct But if our gender was a social construct, why can't a transgender woman? Somebody that's born a biological male that changes their sex to a female. Why can't they have a baby? Why can't they have their period? Because they're not the same as a woman and vice versa That's why they say a man Can have a baby because trans women that change to a man have gotten pregnant So just think about that. That is the idea that they're trying to in in indoctrinate our children where they're indoctrinate everybody with And the reason why it's important is the reason why we play sports and the reason why we keep a score Is because there are winners and losers And in my mind the reason why transgender women should not be able to compete against biological women Is because I look at the women that spent every single day in the swimming pool That finally every weekend and then they finally get that college scholarship And then they finally make it to the nc double a championship And then guess what? They had to swim against somebody that was on the men's team for three years that never won anything And then when they change your gender to lea thomas, all of a sudden they're not only an ivy league champion They're a national nc double a champion. They're actually the number one ranked swimmer in their competition So for me, it's very simple when you look at laurel hardy an olympic athlete once again This is a transgender woman who was born a biological male competing in the olympics Now you're gonna say, oh, they don't have an advantage because they didn't place Well, they got a disqualification because their lift i'm talking about laurel hardy in the olympics because their lift wasn't appropriate According to the judges now All I can say is somebody that lives their life based in reality When you look at a biological woman and you look at a biological man There are differences like I said a biological woman has her period a biological woman can have a baby Now brenton mentioned intersex people now there are a very small amount of people very small amount of people that are born with Both genitals either a female vagina and a penis or some sort of mutilated penis And oftentimes the doctor at birth will give the parents the decision to to decide their sex Literally that birth and they'll give them gender reassignment surgery at a very young age as a matter of fact that oftentimes happens Now you're like alex. Well, that's gonna exclude them from competing No, no, no, no, no. That's not that's not the issue here We're not having an issue with intersex born people competing against the women in nc double h m ship The problem that we're having at the national level is men that slam on the men's team that are facing the women So you have to look at lia tomas who still has her male genitals still has her testicles And still has an ability to create more testosterone than the women. It doesn't matter how many hormone blockers or how many sort of Hormone therapy medication they are on they're still going to have an advantage because they're six foot five and 215 pounds When no other girl that they're swimming against is even near their size So like I said the same person I'm debating will probably say that trans women can have a baby Or that trans women can have their period, but we know that's impossible So that's the reality that we're living in that they want to capitulate and ruin the competitive nature of sports to appease Less than 1% of the population. So for me I I played sports. I think sports are one of the most important things. It's about character building. It's about team building it's about You know about you know helping your insecurities in life being a part of a team is very important And you have people on lea thomas's team that complain that lea thomas would change in front of them and that You know, they were upset that they lost their spot in the ivy league championship to Lea thomas, but they were afraid to speak out because they didn't want to get you know killed in the media So what's happening in this day and age in this day and age of social justice It's actually anti feminism and me. I'm kind of a feminist. I love women I think we should lift women up We should put women on a pedestal and give them the type of support That we owe them but to have a person that swam on the men's team for three years Get to decide that they want to transition their sex and compete against the women because they even said lea thomas In her sports illustrated article that lea thomas identifies As a swimmer first And for me as an ex-athlete I was willing to do anything in the world to win and most athletes are And for some it's is going as far as transitioning your sex in order to gain a competitive advantage So that's the world we live in where they're going to tell you That a biological male that transitions their sex has no advantage against women yet when we have the most famous Most famous example of it being lea thomas who was number 457th ranked boy swimmer became the number one female swimmer in less than a year To me that's about all the evidence I need to make this decision So when we really look at this pragmatically and not emotionally and not based on some sort of progressive idealization of the future I'm just looking at the apical facts lea thomas Nearly the 500th ranked swimmer Goes from the first No gender surgery. No nothing other than hormone replacement therapy That's not enough She still had a huge advantage. She is a national champion So we just need to wake up because women and men are not the same. I can't have a baby. I can't get pregnant But a woman a biological woman can I have a penis a biological woman does not so just these simple things is that Proved that we are not the same and that a trans woman can be trans But biologically they are still a man. Thank you. That's my time Oh, thank you so much alex Um, so we will go ahead and kick it into the open discussion in just a second I just want to go ahead and let everybody know in the chat that if this is your first time at modern day debates So we are a neutral platform hosting debates on science religion and politics I want you to feel welcome no matter what walk of life you're from. Um, so, uh, like I said, uh, feel welcome if you uh, like what you're hearing from either of our debaters, please they're um Their links are in the description. Whether you're listening on podcast or on youtube. So check them out I think uh, brenton has a uh graphic novel upcoming that is a link there as well So, um, you might want to check that out. Um, I think you You might want to take a second to mention that real quick. Do you want to take one? I did it at the beginning Oh, okay. Good. Um, did you did you start my time when I did that because I ran out of time on my opening statement Um, I did but I did also keep it running after you kept talking. Okay. Good. Um, I also want to say that if you, uh Love debates if you're sick like we are then please hit the subscribe button Like and share and subscribe these videos show james that you love these videos So you can keep making them for you and with that we will go ahead and kick it into the open discussion for 60 minutes Uh gentleman, the floor is oh wait a minute. Uh, one more thing I do also want to say that um, if you have a question for tonight's debaters Please fire into the live chat and tag me at modern day debate The super chats will go to the top of the list. So they will get priority But you can ask a question without Setting a super chat. Oh, there's a timer going on. Um But please attack the argument and not the person insults will not be read and that goes for the general discourse in the live chat as well Our moderators work tirelessly to elevate the conversation. So please don't attack them either Don't attack each other. Don't attack the debaters. Just attack the arguments and not each other So again with that we will go ahead and kick it into the open discussion for one hour gentlemen At your first word the floor is yours So, uh, alex, um, I was listening to the opening statement. You mentioned that you did sports. What sports did you do? I played college football. Okay. So so you played football, but but not swimming No, I didn't swim. I played football. Okay, cool That makes a lot of sense because a lot of what you said doesn't make sense in the context of swimming Um, so first off, uh, lea thomas's overall rank Isn't relevant here. What matters is is that the rank that she, uh, has in the actual Um sport in the actual event that she's competing in so the 200 yard freestyle Um, the 500 yard freestyle and the 1650 freestyle So she was ranked 554th in the men's 200 yard freestyle. That's not Like that actually puts you up on par with like some of the most elite athletes in the world You were talking about differences by like a millisecond. So that's not surprising then we go to this She was ranked 65th in the country in the 500 yard freestyle because she is a she's not a sprinter Which is what done by as a man though. You're talking about her man ranking when he was This is her ranking competing in men's division before she transitioned So 65th in the entire country. Um, and in the 1650 yard freestyle. She was ranked 32nd So to say that she wasn't a champion before she transitioned just doesn't make any sense But she didn't wait with you. Are you saying she won a championship as a man? Um, probably is she's one no, it gets that level without waiting. She wants she never real quick brun Let's just get it clear. She never won an nc double a championship as a man, but she competed for three years Can we get that this wasn't an nc double a championship? She she swam real quick brun She swam for the university of pennsylvania's team as a man for three years and never won a nc double a championship Her first year swimming as a woman. She did win an incident She didn't win an nc double a championship this time. That wasn't what happened She won first place in two events the 200 and the nc double a championships in those events So she was an nc double a championship in those events in the women's competition But in the men's cuz I might have missed please confirm this. Yeah, you misread this because she is an nc double a champion She is first place in the nc double a championships She did compete for three years as a man and never won any championships as a matter of fact That's a fact britain. So I want to get that. This is not that's not a debate. No real quick But I want to get that I want to get that that's germane to this argument. I want you to understand I'm a hundred percent right. Thank you say that again for the audience. No, you're not a hundred percent right You are just right that she was in the nc double a championships But again, that's she won first place and the hot britain. She won first place in the highest The highest competition in the nc double a and you know she did not you're telling me that the nc double a championship It's not the highest a thing that refers to college athlete as a non professional athlete. You're telling me No, now we're arguing stuff that is factual. I listen we can argue all day long. No, no, listen, let me just make this point But your athletes the olympics people can we just even before college hold on. Hold on. Do we Just just calm down for a second. Just take a breath. Okay. Just so okay He's trying to say no, no, no, I want to start. I just want to get this off I want to get this first and foremost So you're saying that the nc double a championships is not the highest competition for a college athlete Let's say college athlete. It's not you're saying, okay only the olympics So lea thomas has not had a chance to swim in the olympics yet But I'm what I just want to say for this germane to this argument because you said that she's never won a championship I just want this known. She never won a championship swimming as a boy Yet her first year she did say she didn't win a championship. I said she very likely won several There's a bunch of different leads and no, I'm talking about at the Listen, get this. I'm talking about the nc double a championship brand. I'm not talking about some high school thing I'm talking about nc double a championship. That is what we're going to talk about real quick I'm going to use that as example did lea thomas in in his when I say his as a man Did he ever win an nc double a championship? Yes or no So she as a woman. I'm talking about as a boy though. I'm not talking about as a woman I'm not sure whether she It's no if you're not sure but that's not she she never yes It is the point the whole point is that there's the trans athlete have an advantage from switching to a Competing against the women and it's obvious But it's not even worth arguing with you brin if you can't even admit that lea thomas never won a championship as a boy And then did win an nc double a championship as a woman if you can't even admit that it's not even worth debating you because that's just So it's just facts. That's not. That's not hyperbole. That's not metaphor. No, no, I I'm okay No, no, let me just tell you something. No, no, let me say something because you are so triggered right now. I'm not triggered I'm not triggered. I'm not triggered. I'm not triggered. I'm gonna mute everybody. I'm gonna mute everybody. I'm not triggered I just want we're gonna mute everybody. Okay. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on I'm unmuting everybody now to hold on alex. You're asking him a question to answer. Yes, right? You want him to answer you So let's just get him to answer real quick. Okay, and then let me ask him on his answer Let me ask him on his answer, right? I will I will When william when he was william thomas Did he ever win an nc double a championship and then in the three years of swimming and did she win an nc double a championship In her first year of swimming. Yes or no brun So two things Uh one like I said, I don't know I need to look up the first question But two no, she didn't because she didn't start her first year of swimming this last year She's been swimming her entire life and she was about six years old So no, she did not do it after one year. She had all of the experience One year as a woman britain. Well, one year as a woman finish. Yeah, he's not start from zero He's not answer. I know One second. It's one second. It's one second. Come on. Just finish the answer britain. Come on Yeah, so anyway, the point is is that this is being phrased in a very disingenuous sort of way And I think I don't think alex is doing it on purpose I think it's because he's listening to conservative media and letting the tv think for him Uh, because like honestly the fact of the matter, you don't even know you're telling me the tv think for you Don't even know william thomas's swimming career before she transitioned. I mean, I was so you don't tell I was just telling you will you have no idea what you're talking about? I'm just saying you have no idea what you're talking about because you don't even know that they advantage I'm just saying you have no idea britain. I mean, you're not based in reality because you don't even know the facts You you're trying to argue you're trying to argue you're trying to argue some sort of uh, uh Thing that's not proven yet. I'm trying to talk about provable stuff We can argue in debate all day long But I just want it I just want it because it's so germane to this argument Leah thomas never won a championship ncda championship as a male But lia thomas did win one in her first year swimming as a female. I just want that do you understand that? Yes, or no brun. I understand what you're trying to say with that Again, so you're saying that's not true. Google it right now. I don't even want to do the debate anymore You can't do if you can't even admit that We're gonna go to You do want to go to the brenton page? No, I want to do the debate. I don't want to do the debate I'm just saying you're you're not you're not based in reality. It's just here. We go. Okay, so I'm muted you guys both We're gonna go to my intervals Uh, you wanted brenton to answer a question. So I'm gonna give him the first interval He's gonna give two minutes to talk uninterrupted I'm gonna mute you while he's talking and then after he's done talking I'll unmute you and we'll go back and forth like that And we'll just finish out the hour that way. Okay, brenton you're two minutes. We'll start in about Here we go. All right. I'm gonna be meeting you now Hey, thank you. So to Continue this. Um, I was accused of not um Saying that like not using facts every single thing in my opening statement was fact cited In fact, the only person who has done nothing but say pure opinion this entire time has been alex Now as I said, thomas when thomas was competing as a man ranked 554th Uh in the men's 200 yard freestyle, which is huge the shorter the distance The better men tend to do about it in the more competition and the difference has come down to like tiny tiny hundreds of the second sometimes Um, she was ranked 65th in the 500 yard freestyle and 32nd in the 1650 freestyle This is really important men and especially like powerful men with lard We tend to be really good at sprinting my event was the 50 yard freestyle and the 100 yard freestyle men's advantages based upon their strength and their bodies actually decrease the longer you go and leah Is a she is not a sprinter. She is a distant swimmer So the fact that she won for instance at the nc double a championships the 200 yard freestyle is not surprising Uh, not only that but she actually doesn't she's not the best in the world. She's not even the best in the country She's um under uh, the current best in the country is about nine seconds faster than the time that she won the nc double a championships with because alex seems to think that the nc double a championships is this massive thing It's big. It's awesome. But again like the freaking olympics like people competing in the olympics Against adults when they are like 14 years old 16 years old so obviously this is uh, the nc double a championships at the college level is well below the olympics and And to stress this leah met all of the uh criteria put forth by the ioc the international olympic committee first time Okay, well britain is obviously not a mathematician because he doesn't understand how you could go from the 500th rank man to the number one woman So i'm debating somebody that doesn't even know how to do ranking. So the guys go figure You know, you'd have to be really smart to not be able to figure that one So i'm dealing with a guy that that you know is super smart But he can't do a simple thing is being ranked the 500th woman in your event 500th man in your event And then you transition to a woman you become the first in in the nc double a championships Yet leah thomas never won you guys can fact check this all day leah thomas never won any nc double a championships as a boy And swam on the team for three years And then and then somehow the first year as a woman wins multiple events in the nc double a championship So i guess that means that she doesn't have an advantage. Okay, you're right. You're right leah thomas just won that on Mary she just swam she was such she was just so good She just won not because she had any physical advantage. You're 100 right rin She won because trans athletes they you know, you you win the debate you're in the bay leah thomas didn't have an advantage You're 100 right. All right next Did i mute you? I didn't mute you Oh, i muted me. Sorry So i can i can continue Yep, i reset your timer right now Okay, so uh, this comes from dr. Nick roten, uh, the american board of emergency medicine medical legal consultant trans health care Transgender student athletes fall within the spectrum of physical traits found in athletes of their transition gender allowing them to complete Compete fairly and equitably And this is actually really important to understand when it comes to sports and as i said You know at a rank 500 or 400 or whatever when you're in a short Like when you're in like a 50 or 100 freestyle It's a much shorter event and the time differences are very different So if someone is having a particularly good day they can beat the world champion sometimes Especially if the world champion is having a difficult day. She beat two olympic silver medalists Again, that's not surprising that can happen She didn't like and again. She is not the fastest swimmer in the country She is the the fastest swimmer in the country is a cis woman So yeah, she did really well great You I could say that also she probably does have a couple of advantages um One advantage for instance might be not necessarily her her reach but her lung size not because she can get Uh oxygen to her blood because it can't because the vo2 levels have stopped it But in fact the reason um, she's able to do go a little bit faster is if you have Large lungs you're going to float a little bit better in the water so again trans athletes may have Certain inborn physical advantages just like every athlete does a good example of this actually might be michael felps Michael felps is like a freak of nature. His body literally does not produce enough like as much lactic acid as most people So one of the big things about sports that you know if this is something you care about Mm-hmm. Oh 10 seconds. I was just gonna say it's not just about um, what you can do Like this time it's about how quickly you can heal and michael felps will heal from the lactic acid the burn in his muscles Three fourths time faster than anybody else Okay, go ahead alex well, I mean You know, how are you even still doing today? Hold on alex. I'm not gonna start your timer yet Just keep talking until we are your your robot starts Okay, is it okay? It's better now. It's better now. I'm gonna start your timer. Okay, so So basically, I mean we just admitted that you know men do have an advantage and that lea thomas You know may have had an advantage But the thing is in sports there's a thing called fairness and so I just like you know, I played sports I wanted to be fair like like I said like in the nc double a there's an academic requirement You said you'd would do anything to win Hold on Well, first of all, I never said I wanted to cheat now. Don't don't call me a cheater. No, I actually respect sports I've never cheated. I never took any um, uh like uh steroids or anything But that doesn't mean people don't do that That doesn't mean people won't sacrifice their health or long-term health in order to win a championship similar to what lea thomas did So for you guys to say like a male athlete would take steroids and baseball to become better What lea thomas did is took some medicine to give her estrogen levels higher So she can compete about against women and it's very simple when you go from the 450th ranked swimmer as a boy never making to the nc double a championship And then going to the nc double a championship in your first year and winning and lea thomas may not be the best women swimmer But she is an nc double a champion as a female and she never was as a male So it's just very obvious that in that sport that they did have an advantage and you admitted that they have an advantage And for me, that's why I think this is a big issue because what's going to happen is lea thomas There's going to be more men that Decide to assign their gender and we know lea lea thomas is still supposedly attracted to women and still has Her male genitalia So that says a lot about you know, did she make a permanent decision? Now at any moment lea thomas could go back to william thomas because you can be gender fluid now I get it. I kind of consider myself gender fluid So sometimes i'm alexandria But that doesn't mean that I can go and just compete against the girls because there is some sort of fairness in sport There's a reason why there's regulations and these regulations you save the ioc Because she took some sort of hormone blockers that doesn't negate the physical advantage that lea thomas has against biological women Thank you Okay, so the really important thing to understand here is that when it comes to sports No one is on an even playing field. It is never fair And that's the point. That's why we like sports if sports was just perfectly fair to people getting together and Winning based upon you know What's important about sports is when you have different people coming from different walks of life with different abilities And you put them in a competition with each other and we don't know what's going to happen We don't know if the swimmer who was incredibly poor for instance And lived in a rural area and had to drive two hours every single day To to compete to get to like an indoor swimming pool If they're going to be able to beat the rich swimmer who's maybe not as physically gifted as they are But has has like a freaking swimming pool in their house so It's never fair and the idea that It should be fair is wrong and contrary to like everything about sports What we do when we enforce like leagues and rules and regulations is to make this Basically to allow people to compete in a way that honors them and makes the competition as stiff as possible Now will there still be people who are completely unfair? Absolutely again. I said michael felts this man like he is literally better biologically Through no actions of his own than just about anybody that he runs into because he's got unusually long arms I'm usually large hands He's got large feet but shorter legs which give him a swifter kick and he's got a shorter torso So what winds up happening is is essentially he can beat absolutely everyone and do we say no? Oh my god, take that away It's not fair. No, we love michael felts We go crazy for him He wins all of the olympic medals and no one gets mad about it The only reason people get mad about lia is because she's a trans woman and as alex pointed out He's afraid of them Thank you so much. Well, I never said wait. I never said i'm afraid of trans people. I don't want to be called a trans I love trans trans people. I love gay people. I don't care if you dress as a woman and you're born a boy That's this or don't don't say i'm not afraid of them. I have trans friends To be honest with you. Uh, it's just very simple. I just like britain to answer this question Can a trans woman can lia thomas have a baby brenton? So I don't know where lia thomas is in terms of hrt And I don't know what the condition of her womb may be But this was another weird thing that uh, I saw you think lia thomas has a womb that can have a baby You think that britain? Are you I don't know? I'm not privy to her. What do you mean? You don't know she was born a boy can a boy have a baby britain? um, okay, so first off yes A man how how can a man have a baby with how can a man with a penis have a baby britain? Because one about one percent of uh people Are born with a certain level of gender fluidity in the in the i'm sorry not gender sexual fluidity Zero men have ever had a baby in the history of mankind. You understand that there was like a 40-something year old cis man in england That is not true. That is not true. He didn't birth a baby, but it turned out that he was in menopause Didn't birth a baby no man in the history of mankind has ever had a baby and you can't even admit that britain That's how deft you are. I mean think about that again I'm just I'm hearing a lot about homonyms. No, I'm just worried. I'm just worried because you think lia thomas Who's a biological male can have a baby? I mean, I want to get that. I just want to get that clear You think lia thomas with a penis medical records So but you think a person with a penis can can can have a baby Do you think that if they have a functional if they're born with a functional womb if they're born intersex? Yes, they absolutely can now again It's probably pretty rare But one percent of the population and that's less than one percent are born intersex first of all And that's not one percent are born with some amount of intersection. I know, but do you think lia thomas can have a baby? Yes, I don't know. I'm not i'm not privy to her medical See you won't even admit that brin see it's not even worth debating you because it's a simple thing Let's say that she can't let's say you're 100 right there. She absolutely cannot okay Who gives a shit because right now? We don't define women by whether or not they can have a baby That's ridiculous if we did women who went through menopause would not be women Is your mother? I assume your mother went through menopause. Is she a woman? Yeah, my mother had a baby. That's proves that she's a woman now. She can't have one. Yes, but i'm saying it's about how Hold on. I'm muting you guys again. Sorry We're off the track as far as the two minutes I don't know how that happened, but i'm gonna unmute you guys again Here we go brenton, uh, I think that was alex's time and he has my time It's my time. What i'm saying is brenton will not even admit. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on That was your time, but then you asked that was my time. He just went off on two minutes No, no it got messed up. I don't even I don't even care. He won't even admit He won't even admit that a man with a penis can't have a baby. I mean come on You made your point. You made your point But it is now his he's gonna have his two minutes because you had your time So we're gonna go I'll start off with that and i'm gonna go back to the the two minute Thing again. Okay. Here we go. Let's go. Okay. So again, this comes down to a major misunderstanding about the actual science behind Uh behind sex and gender Um, the first thing that I need to point out is as I said one percent and this is in nature journal again most, uh respected scientific journal in the western world one percent of people are born with some sort of, uh sexual Biological issues and a a decent number of them are actually born with an inability like the doctors don't know Looking at their genitals if they're men or women So what they wind up doing is they go in and they go, uh, this for the you know for the up until the 90s And they say, uh, I think this is probably a woman Let's surgically alter this baby and they'll live their life as a woman now as I said this went up until the Until the mid 90s they started they realized this was happening and started to follow them And when they followed a small cohort of these, uh people who fell into that one percent A number of them wound up identifying as the opposite gender than what the doctors had surgically given them as children So I'm sorry mother nature is a mad scientist and she doesn't give a shit about any human, uh ideas about gender gender is like What It is the therefore you should within society So the baby's born pops out of the doctor the doctor looks and goes, uh, that's a man or that's a woman therefore you should And the rest of society maybe not in so many words tells people that this is your role in society This is how you are supposed to behave And that is what gender is sex is your biological Makeup and it exists on a spectrum all humans are bimodal and not only that But actually all men are actually modified females the body Like the body in the womb What about people born with defects? They're both on hold on hold on more in paraplegics They're all by me starting now Yes, the paraplegic would still be on a bimodal spectrum between male and female So yes, somebody so people born with birth defects are bimodal. I'm sure I mean everyone is Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. We're doing two minute intervals guys. It's uh, alex's time. Go ahead. The the well, no No, no, hang on. I he interrupted me. I need to finish my point here the um, the body is essentially female Until hormones act on it in the womb all men 100 of us alex myself We are all modified females. We're very different. But you know, like if you ever wondered why men have nipples That's why okay, there we go Again, there's a lot of weird shit that goes on in the world And you know it you need to actually look into the science of this rather than just going with common sense And what you feel in your gut because you're what you're doing is it feels over reels Okay, let's go. It's just very cute I think it's really cute for somebody to say the science the science and you can't even You can't even say that a double x is the same as an x y chromosome So you don't even believe the science it does matter because one has a penis and one has a vagina I mean, I don't I guess you never saw the movie kindergarten cop But they they literally said boys have penises girls have vagina You can't even define that like you're not even based in reality britain You don't even think that there's a difference between male and female. So really you're obviously a very smart person You're so smart. You don't even know the difference between a boy and a girl So sadly, I have to wake you up. I'm not a female. I have the male genitals. I have a penis I have balls that makes me different than a woman now if I suck my penis inside of a woman and I ejaculate it And she had ovaries. I could get her pregnant. I guess you don't even believe in how pregnancy works Now, do you believe that sperm impregnates an egg? I would like to know that I mean, I think that's a very simple concept that it takes a female egg in order to have a baby So I guess my question is does lea thomas have female eggs inside of her male balls If a woman is a direct question for you alex and you can't answer this If a woman is born infertile issue woman If she has a vagina, yes Okay, so it's not the ability to have a baby. It is the presence of a vagina in your opinion That is what makes someone now. No, no, no, no I'm saying there's obviously a caveat for people born with Issues that they may not be able to get pregnant, but it's still the basis the bottom basis Because some women are born with birth defects or have some sort of defect. They may not be able to get pregnant There could be some they could have been something they they could have had an issue But that doesn't so please define what a woman is what you keep talking about it A woman has a vagina and a woman can have her period A woman has eggs inside of that that are able to have a baby if they're for instance born infertile Well, they still have eggs and there's women and they're and they can't I know there's cis women But they still have eggs. They still have eggs and they have ovaries. A man does not have that same thing There's a difference. There's a biological difference Why just let's answer this question. Is a vagina and a penis the same thing Brenton? No Why would you think I'd think that? Well, because obviously you think a guy with a penis can become a girl magically So that's why I would not magically Scientifically like we not scientific. Well, can you go from a double x chromosome to an x y chromosome? Can you do that? I got muted on this that wouldn't matter because I'm asking you there are x men and x y women Literally, I know but could you could you go but could you transition could you change your chromosomes within your body? No, you can't change your chroma exactly. So then you can't change your sex bud Herman solely by chromosomes Well, listen, you love science. It's just funny that yeah, you keep on saying science yet You can't even define a biological man or a biological woman Well, that's because a biological man and a biological woman do not exist men and A biological man and a biological woman do not exist because What you're doing is you're lumping in biology with You're using facts and you're getting crushed because you have this some sort of you live in la la land You're not based in reality bud. You literally live in some weird convoluted world Yeah, brin, you're not based in reality If you think lia tomas she went from the 450th ranked male to the number one ranked woman in her Swimming competition the 200 meter. You don't think that they had an advantage. You're not based in reality, bud again It's very easy to go from the 450th ranked whatever And win a major competition. The rankings are incredibly close. We're talking about fractions of a second We're talking about the difference between this And that that is the difference between the first and the 457th. Whatever like that's yeah Okay, this answer this and why didn't lia tomas ever make it to the ncdouble a championships as a boy But then did in her first year as a girl I don't know probably because she did got to that point in her career Where everything was kind of working in the right way So it yeah, because she started competing against lesser competition. That's a work Again, yes, it is. Okay. Is it number one ranked male swimmer better than the number one ranked female swimmer? Yes There you go At any point during this did I ever claim did I ever claim in fact I claimed in my opening that in fact I need to let the chat know something. I need to let chat know something. Hold on Everybody, uh, we have a lot of questions that have come in so far tonight. I need to let you guys know I'm gonna give you guys a warning now There are so many questions that I don't know that we're going to be able to get to all of them We're going to power through and be very quick and pithy in the q&a section to get through all the ones We've gotten in so far, but if you send any more in now there I'm not going to guarantee you that we're going to get through all of them So i'm just letting you know that uh, i'm not going to ask james to refund anymore that come in after this point So if you send any more after this point and that's on you Um, so i'm just letting you guys all know that now. So gentlemen, do you guys want to keep Having this open discussion as we're doing it right now And we try to keep it a little bit more civil and just not do the timer anymore because it's annoying to me too Yeah Yeah, i'm not trying to be uncivil. I mean listen, I don't I don't have anything personally wrong with britain Like I said, I don't know add him on ad hominem attacks. I'm not trying to attack you britain I'm just saying the only reason i'm getting upset or getting triggered as you would say is that you are trying to say that Leah thomas never or excuse me. You're trying to say leah thomas was an incident. No, I want to get this clear It's not about the arguments. It's about talking over each other It's about the quality of the conversation for the audience. Okay, but for me. This is this is why I keep on saying it So it's your name Leah thomas and this is the only application. I'm just using leah thomas as an example I just want this noted never won an ncda championship as a boy And he did and this is william swam on the on the female team I mean on the male team for three years and then in her first year of competition on the female team Did make it to the ncda championship and did win multiple events. I just I just want that don't think Competing for three years straight at the college level and competing for her entire life all the way after that Didn't lead up into her victory, which wasn't even the fastest time in the country So it wouldn't even really matter if she did have an advantage. She is not the best swimmer in the country She is among the best. She is an elite athlete again but The the you're making a much bigger deal out of her win than it really is And it's because you have been conditioned to feel this way by busy body culture warriors because it is big business and big money to uh, essentially cause hatred to That's like the entire I don't hate. I don't wait. First of all, you keep on saying. I hate trans people I didn't say you said well, you said earlier that i'm scared of trans people. I'm not scared or have any hate Are you kidding? I have trans friends. I literally do I mean the fact that you think i'm scared of a trans person scared of what? No, I just when what i'm trying to do is i'm a feminist. I want to protect women I just think a woman that competed her whole life and made it to the ncda championship Shouldn't have to lose to a person that swam on the men's team for three years Now you call me they call that fear. I think that's just being based in reality I think that is you being based in in what you see as common sense But it's also you being very ignorant about this now. I want to say right here without wait real quick How am I being ignorant to that? How is that being ignorant not being able to see that? There's a huge difference from going from the 457th ranked to the first that's not ignorant That's math. That's simple math. I've explained this four times The well she's going for three years and never she never won. I know she never won Yeah, you're talking about you're talking about a small difference, but she made a huge leap She went from never never winning an ncda championship to winning so it is an advantage for me. That's not that hard Like that's not that hard. Then why didn't those other girls beat her? They didn't because they didn't have the same advantage. They're not physically as strong as in the other events She swam in that day What i'm saying is It's not fair for biological men to be able to switch over just because every biological man is not as good as the best woman Does it mean that he doesn't have an advantage over the majority because it's just a simple mathematical equation From the 500 to one what sports divided by biology, correct? That's what I know Sports have always been sports have always been have always been uh, uh divided by that That's impossible because we didn't have the science of biology back in the ancient greek times when the earth started First of all men competed against men women competed against women That's not crazy that there's a reason why they've done that since the beginning of time Because of fairness you don't want sports to be fair in your own arguments that all sports aren't fair for me I think fairness does matter. So that's just where we're gonna have to agree to disagree I think fairness does matter and that we should do every single thing we can to make the playing field fair I do think that's important. So let me explain to you very quickly What an ad hominem argument is because you keep saying you don't do it and then you just literally did it and I Did I do what is not an ad I don't know hang up an ad hominem argument Is not when you insult someone an ad hominem argument is when you make an argument that is irrelevant because you are attacking a characteristic It's not irrelevant when you go from the 500th rank male to the number one ranked woman That's not irrelevant bud. I don't know. I don't know why you can't get that like we're just Let's imagine that I am but you can't even understand this Let's imagine that I am completely insane. Okay really quickly. You probably will have a hard time thinking about that from your perspective Let's imagine That I think that the sky is made of lemonade But I come here and I cite the fact for instance that all life Begins as female And that am I wrong? When I cite the fact that all life begins as female Because I think the sky is made of lemonade. No, I'm not that would be an ad hominem argument You're comparing a lemonade I'm comparing stats of male ranked versus female ranked and you're comparing lemonade and biology We are not the same No, I understand what ad hominem is but I'm talking about stuff that's pertinent to this You don't understand you're talking about lemonade and I'm talking about things that are germane to this debate You and I are not the same bud. Oh, see that's an ad hominem argument right there. Jesus christ, dude Like read a book Oh, I've never read a book. You're right. I don't know how to read. Oh, let me. Oh, I've never read a book That's a that's not an ad hominem tag. We're generally an incurious person However, that right there is not an ad hominem argument. That is you think I'm In curious you think I'm in curious. Well, that's fine. You can think that I think I think you're an idiot That's not true. That's not true. I know there's intersex people I know that there's an application where there might be people that have to have a puberty blockers or gender reassignment surgery at a very young age And for me, I think that is unfortunate that they would not be able to compete against people in sport But at the same time, I think the sports are bigger than people. You don't think the same sports are huge You're a culture. So for me to have women that Conceded their whole lives and make to listen you keep on yelling ad hominem These women spent their whole lives in the ncda championship You look at the female swimmer that spoke out against it who is 17th who didn't get to swim in the top 16 in the final place of the ncda uh championship you will notice something she's 17 17 Is she gonna get a chance to compete next year and the year after and it doesn't she might not what if she gets in a Car accident dies. What happened? What does she feel out of school? You can't use that as a reason. What do you mean? Who gives a crap? You only have one life You can't tell the future anything could happen. She could get in a car accident and lose the ability to swim And she never got to compete because no one Lea Thomas just sports About sports rankings and sports leagues based upon whether or not someone might get in a car accident What i'm saying is you're trying to say next year She's just gonna be right in the competition next year is not guaranteed anything can happen. That's how life works No, what your argument is not smart saying That she is 17 She will have other opportunities and also she might not have other opportunities anything could happen There is no guarantee anything If she walks outside and gets hit by a meteorite that doesn't matter because we're talking about rules It would matter It would matter because her one chance to keep competing that competition the one time not the future time The one time that was right in front of her face got taken away from her by somebody that swam on the boys team for three years That's why it does matter. Okay. This is a fallacious appeal to sympathy. I don't give a fuck I do not give a fuck at all What you think or how sympathetic you are to one random person that does not change the rules That does not change biological uh facts. That does not change. Uh, you don't understand biological facts You think a man with a But you just said the same thing you think a man with a penis can have a baby britton So listen where you're coming from Guys, look this up seriously. Just put it into google. Uh, there was a 45 year old man, uh, in Didn't have a baby britton. He did not have a baby went into freaking menopause That's not the same as having a baby bud. Do you think you have anything to do with being a woman? Oh my gosh The fact that you can't admit that a woman has a vagina and has ovaries and can have a baby and then a man has a penis A vagina I admit that Does lea thomas has lea thomas have a vagina what womanhood is does lea thomas have a vagina I don't fucking know The answer is no, so he's not a woman according to you britton. How much do you care about that? No, i'm using it because you don't understand argument. I don't care about their genitals, but you can't even admit that So they're in a basic reality Because it shows they have a physical advantage because they don't have the same body or tools as a woman We are different. You don't understand that a man and a woman are not the same thing britton Physical advantage in a swimming competition No, but it's different because a man is bigger a man has longer limbs a man has a more of a muscle mass than a woman So if a person's born with a penis longer limbs and better and better musculature Compets against a woman a woman who's smaller with worse musculature Overwhelmingly men have a advantage over women over women. That's a simple thing. Do you want to in general? Yes, but when we're dealing with elite athletes, it gets a lot smaller now again Well, not every sport is a versus elite athletes. That's the problem is we're This is going to go down to the high school level then it's going to go down to the middle school level Then it's going to go down to the elementary level So you're not even based in reality, but Okay, so that is a slippery slope logical fallacy And second of all it wouldn't even matter because that is also a fallacious appeal to consequence The issue here is not what will happen as a result of this with regard to our leagues The issue is is she owed an equal chance to compete? And yes, she is by the rules. She's owed an equal chance to compete by the science She's owed an equal chance to compete This is happening and there's absolutely nothing you or anyone else who's salty about it can do to stop it I'm not salty about it. I just think it's unfair. That's why I'm talking about it. I'm not salty about it I think actually I think lia thomas is good for swimming because now more people are talking about college swimming So lia thomas over for the sport overall is good because less people were even talking about college swimming So for those other swimmers, they got a little bit of shine because of lia thomas So for the sport attention, I think it's good for the fairness of the competition. It's terrible So for me, no, I don't think it's bad. I just think it's unfair Okay, so if you think it's unfair and you may think it's unfair, that's fine You're not the one making that decision the people making that decision are the nc double a and the olympics So are you telling me that right now that you who don't know anything about swimming has never swam in his in his life Can come in here and say that you think it's unfair and everything should change Yes, I think everything should not I think biological boys shouldn't get to compete against biological women. Yes All right, so you are smarter and better read and better able to understand this than the entire international olympic committee The international olympic committee is you're talking about the federation of of the ioc Do you think you're better than the ioc? Of course, I think i'm more based in reality than them by them allowing these women to lose Yeah, I do think i'm smarter than them and you think you're better than the nc double a I don't think i'm better than that. I think i'm more based in reality than they are because they Don't care about it what they what they're trying to do is they're trying to virtue signal and you know I think I think I'm not the only one that thinks is what the thing is these these colleges These colleges are trying to virtue signal Guys nobody can understand you guys say something they're trying to capitulate and change the entire sports the entire fairness of the sports To capitulate to the lesson point zero zero eight percent. That's what i'm saying. So that's why I think it's unfair Zero eight percent again one percent. It is it's less than one percent It's less than one percent not one out of every hundred people is transgender But one percent of of all humans in the world that is one percent of seven billion Have one uh disorder or another of sexual Of sexual biology That is a fact That is a group that is larger than the entire us military It is larger than the entire chinese military and you want to say that this is a some sort of fringe case? No, it's not by the numbers. This is a very very significant group one in a hundred That's not the number dude Yes, it is Dude, it's not that that's not the number That's not how many people again Yeah, I don't know how many people are transgendered But it's how many people are born In at some in some form of intersex condition and a large number of those cannot be classified as male or female Based upon physical description alone nor can they be classified based upon their chromosomes because again There are xx men and there are xx women now There was one other thing that I did want to ask you about here because this is an important situation. So castor simenia castor simenia is a runner She is a she is as you would put it a biological woman She was a signed woman at birth But she has a disorder that causes more testosterone to course through her veins And as a result She goes in and she beats all the other women Now are you going to tell me because she was born and assigned as a woman and presumably can have a baby That the international olympic committee who was for instance castor can't have a baby She can't have a baby. You know castor can't have a baby. So why would you know because we know because they've checked her testosterone level She's not able to have produce a baby. Okay. Okay. So I don't even care about the rest of your argument The testosterone level doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with producing a baby I'm just saying castor simenia who is born intersex does not have the ability to have a baby That's a fact. Yeah. So and so again One percent of the population are born intersex, but you just said not that's a perfect example Okay, let's even say it's one percent. I don't I don't listen. I don't think we I don't think we should change the rules No, no, this is the question I don't think we should change the rules for the other 90 the 99 percent shouldn't have to suffer for the one percent That's what I think Ironic, but I I don't believe you actually mean that I mean that a hundred percent. I don't think the 99 percent of Where were you during occupy wall street? I was in I was a young kid during occupy wall street. I wasn't worried about occupy wall street I was like a little kid basically just accidentally quoted an occupy slogan And I have a feeling that probably if you were this age during occupy wall street You would be taking the side of the police. You would be taking the side of the people on wall You think I like big business. I hate multinational corporations. I hate that we bailed out the bank See that's some sort of I'm just telling you dude We shouldn't have to change the rules for the 99 percent shouldn't have to suffer for the one percent Call me crazy, but that's what I believe is a very dangerous word um, there are lots of things that should happen In many people's estimation, but that's not how reality works now If we're going to talk about like The decision made by the ioc and the decision made by the ncda and the decision made by all of these leagues by people Who have spent their careers interested in sports who have spent their careers Making sure that they have the best competition possible And have come to the conclusion They have all come to the conclusion that this is fair enough and it is within the bounds of regular activity if you want to overturn that based upon Your personal opinion your uneducated opinion you you you are free To say I have a college degree from brenton real quick. Where did you graduate from college? You've received kentucky Well, I graduated from lsu. So I have a degree. So don't call me uneducated and I didn't say you were uneducated You just said uneducated Uneducated opinion on this topic Because well, I'm very familiar with this topic and see I'm based in reality and you're based in uh, loony tune That's the difference and I couldn't be completely Why don't we just why don't we okay? Listen, you don't even admit that I got you don't even admit that there's a difference See in a man and a woman. So if you're not based in a man and a woman Well, then it doesn't man have a competitive advantage against a woman physically in sports oftentimes, but not always Okay, so most of the time so do you think it's fair for somebody to get to just reassign their sex? But still have all the male genitalia and a kutrimon of being a male Yes, absolutely because if they go they're not just saying like i'm a woman I'm gonna go compete with the other women They're going through like hormonal therapy that will change their body for the rest of their lives Does it make you smaller? Does it make you shorter? No, you're still oh you tell me it'll make you shorter It doesn't make you shorter. Yeah, okay. So it doesn't change you so you still have the advantage So no again certain sports have advantages based on height or weight or whatever a good example might be And bernie, you know, I want to say this I hope you're right because I hope there's a bunch of transgendered women that join the WNBA I can't wait for that day because then maybe I'll start watching it. That's what I hope I hope you're 100 right you have ever paid any attention to the WNBA and you're just saying are you kidding? I love the la sparks. I love the l I'm not even conservative. I love the la sparks I watch a lot of la spark games. Lisa Leslie is my favorite female basketball player I'd like to see you name one female basketball player. I mean, I'm not into basketball And I name one female basketball player name one female WNBA Diana Tarrasi. You don't even know any so you tell me I don't know No, what I'm saying. Yeah, it is because we're talking about trans athletes in sports. Yeah, it's sports. Yeah, it is It is about basketball is your main to it. You don't even know it sports Do you know that basketball is a sport, bud? Did you know that did you know that you that athletes play basketball? Basketball is a sport. Gee. I don't know. I just am not See that shows you that shows you how smart you are. You're so smart. You don't even know basketball is a sport Okay, I gotta use a restroom. Let's just go to the super chest because this guy can't he didn't even know basketball is a sport Dude, you are so butthurt. Uh, uh, there you go triggered Triggered snowflake. All right. You we need to go to the thing You know, he's having a little hissy fit over there. Are you ready to go super chat? Yeah, yeah, it's face turned red and like kind of twisted into an evil mask. So I think I've very well won this debate Let's go to the super chats Well, this quickly gets back if you just come in back Oh my god, like it's possessed by a freaking demon on there We do have quite a few ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much for joining us By the way, when I thank all of our moderators in the chat for keeping the discussion civil I know you've had a lot of work to do tonight. Um, so thank all of you For working so tirelessly. Um, I do hope alex is coming back, but So do I I will say by the way when he watches this afterwards, you know, I was pretty brutal towards the end there But I do actually like him and um, I think that what he did messing with the uh I'm an anarchist and uh, when you're messing with politicians, I'm usually very happy about it. Um, yeah, but anyway, let's let's continue um well, I mean I don't know where to go without alex getting back here are the questions for alex um well, I mean let's see This is this is honestly this is this debate the trends uh athletes debate Triggers so many people like this is the debate that sargon got mad and ran off to like find a book about hitler like towards the end Well, here's a question for you. I guess you can answer while he's uh out. Um Why can't They Compete in men's sports. This is a question from the world's gone mad for 279 from canadian Uh, I believe this is for you frenton says why can't the they compete in men's sports? I assume what you mean is uh trans people so trans people do compete in men's sports Trans men compete in men's sports and it's actually really awful when they are forced to compete against women So this is uh, for instance, uh, a woman a person who was assigned a woman at birth And is transitioning To go into to become a male Or to become a yeah, I guess to become a man And like, uh, I think it was a max somebody a wrestler She was a trans man And people who thought like alex thinks we're like no you're a woman. You must compete against the women's And she went in and she was crushing them and obviously that's unfair Um, again, like, you know situations So that's one thing but to the second part of that question the why can't trans women compete with men Well, one they can if they want to Um, the the men's league is if if a woman wants to compete in the men's league Most people will allow that so they can if they want to usually not always Um, however, it's not a very exciting matchup because again when you start going under going hrt And when you've been under it for the past, you know, uh, I would say two years is what the olympic committee said it as You lose strength. You gain weight. You lose power your your blood your literal blood loses the ability to move oxygen about your body So yeah, you could they could go in and they could uh, you know compete against men, but they just lose So I I think what's best to have happen here is we Create the most exciting competition for everyone. We let everyone Compete in a way that honors them and honors the sport. All right. Thank you so much. We do have quite a few So let's keep them short and fit the guys Anomic anomic for 499 says I have a study that shows that university studies that don't support lgbt Would not be allowed to be published. You don't have that study. You're just lying shut the fuck up and go away Got you. Thank you so much the craw daddy zero two nines for five dollars says It's so weird that trans and their quote-unquote allies know Knows the difference between gender and sex, but regularly confuses the difference between gender and sex What I guess he's meaning that like I made a couple of mistakes like Because I'm used to talking in a certain way you made a lot of mistakes But one thing you have the biggest mistake you made is you said sex is just a social construct when we know There is a social construct. Okay. Okay. So you're telling me how is a person with a penis? How is that a social construct? So having a penis is not a social construct. However Exactly, dude What I what argument did you think you were having this entire time? What I'm saying is a What I'm saying is if you have a penis you are not a woman. You are a trans woman You're not an actual biological woman. So there is a difference. There is no such thing as a biological woman or a biological male That's not true. See that's not true. There is a biological male and there is a biological female These function as limits. There you go. There you go. So they're not the same. They're not the same I never said they were the same again But then they shouldn't be able to compete in the same sport then if they're different You don't have to compete in the same sport What do you mean? You don't have to be the same to compete in the same sport You don't have to be the same to compete in the same sport. Everyone is different. So it's not by grades So you're telling me there's not like a grade level. There's no there's you're telling me in sports There's not requirements of being similar or the same to compete. That's what you're saying. It's just a free-for-all A 26 year old can play in the high school leagues. Is that what you're saying? What I am saying is do you think 26 year olds should be able to play high school basketball? No Okay, so so you do think there are some rules and fairness I think you're so you don't think you don't think 26 year olds should be able to play in high school basketball But you do think biological males should be able to compete against the women. Here's the thing Is a six foot There's a six foot biological male allowed to compete against a five foot biological male In the same grade in like high school basketball say yes, yes, they are okay. Okay, okay, gentlemen We're never gonna get through all these questions. So we're not that different They're not that different the only thing is different is their height yet. They're they're anatomy. Everything else is the same One of them could be missing a leg Okay, let's keep going. Oh, that's what they're playing basketball. Britton, you don't even know that basketball is a sport, bud I mean come on Let's move on gentlemen. You said how is basketball and how does basketball have to do with the trans athlete debate? That just shows you where you're at. No, I didn't say that. Okay, gentlemen Let's move on and this is weird you keep $5 from sphincter of doom says the consensus is regarding the quality of life treatment That does not answer. What is or isn't a woman? Well, yes, because that's a philosophical question. We can't answer that famously. No one can answer that. I actually Played a great example. Plato was talking to the lyceum. First of all, the greeks needed to understand a boy and a girl Go ahead. Oh good lord So Plato put forth his definition of a man to everyone in the lyceum He said it is a bipedal Two-legged featherless animal and the far superior philosopher Diogenes came in with a And put it up says hey, look here's Plato's man and Plato Having been totally owned by a master troll took the L and amended his definition to include broad fingernails You will notice that Plato's second definition of a man includes gorillas and many other species of grade eight So the fact of the matter is it may seem very easy to define something based upon common sense But when you go and cut down into these Concepts, you will find it is actually incredibly difficult to ever define anything We that's just not that difficult. It's not it's not that difficult to define a male and a female I mean, it's really not because you love science. You love science Well, real quick can Todd G brown Jackson. You're happy that she's in the supreme court. She even admits that you had to be a biologist No, no, come on. We must She says that that she you have to be a biologist to be able to know Well, the biology of a male and a female She's a biologist so a philosopher knows more than a biologist. Okay about the concept of gender. Yes Philosophers that tends to be there You won't even admit that there's that there's a difference between a boy with a penis and a girl with a vagina So, you know, you're so you're so philosophical Okay, well, you admit that they have that a male has a physical advantage in sports So when they play sports, so and so they so Then being able to transition would give them an advantage and make the sports unfair Sector doing for five dollars people with uh, oh crap. What is cais? So let me tell me quickly cais cais Uh, I'm not sure actually. I'm not familiar with that term Oh crap. Come on Somebody tell me to check come on Well, while you're looking for okay people with cais are over represented among their among high tier athletes meaning not having any t Still gives you an advantage um See, okay. I need this again like That doesn't make any sense because I even if people with a specific Disorder don't are like highly represented for one reason or another that's not necessarily because they have an advantage correlation is not causation So we would need to one. I need to know what the hell complete androgen insensitivity syndrome. Oh, yeah, and so that's they Uh, don't I don't you know, honestly, I can't speak to that. Thank you Like it just did it like it doesn't apply to what we're talking about. Anyway, it does apply But every question is gonna be probably for you because you're you know, you're just so Well, hey, well the audience will decide that you lost. I mean, it's very That's a bandwagon fallacy You got spanked in this debate and you got humiliated and you look kind of like an embouchure. I guess So, let's talk about all right. All right. All right. Yeah. No, no, no, no, all right Uh speaker of doom for five dollars. You can have an unfair advantage even if you don't dominate steroids Dq disqualify you whether you get first place or last place Yeah, but that doesn't have anything at all to do with whether you win or not the reason they that steroids disqualify you is they don't want to create the precedent that you need to take steroids to win in a game because it's very very difficult to like Remain healthy if you're taking a lot of steroids And so we would essentially have a bunch of athletes dying early And you know, this is the case because the freaking WWE had that whole issue with doping was the problem with wwe that like they like the actual physical competition was all faked But the fact of the matter is is that they needed to get super big so that they could do that And what wound up happening was a lot of them started dying So Yeah, that's why we don't allow people to dope. It's not it's not about fairness It is about making sure that our athletes stay alive Here I have a question. What what do you think gender dysphoria is do you think gender dysphoria exists man? Yeah, it obviously exists Psychological condition where you don't identify with the gender that your body appears to be and that society tells you Okay, so can you have can you have racial dysphoria? um You could but that what doesn't make any sense because there are actual physical differences between like for instance male and female brains And trans people like they've done brain scans and they found that their brain is more similar to a female brain than a male brain If it's a you know trans woman or uh, if it's a uh trans man They find that the the woman who who was born a woman at birth Her brain is more similar to my brain or your brain So, you know, there is no such thing as like a black brain or a chinese brain that we're all I don't know if that's true. I mean And I did well, what about age can you be age dysphoria? Can I choose my age? I mean you could have any sort of disorder. I just don't see what that has to do with anything Let me make let me make this point The reason why is because if you do have gender dysphoria That shouldn't just allow you to all of a sudden because you think you are something get to compete against people that you are Not the same as that's okay. Alex. I'm gonna ask you something Please go ahead. The reason the criteria that the ioc gives out Does it say anywhere in the criteria that the ioc gives out and that the nc double a could give out that the people who Compete have to have gender dysphoria No, but the gender right gives people an advantage It does it does have something to do because it's a mental health issue You don't have a mental health issue. I have a lot of chats super chats that are already inside If you are sending super chats in at this moment that there's a chance that you might not get to them So I do remind everybody of that so we're gonna go ahead and move on now Sink your doom for five dollars We already said that one and i'm economic for four ninety nine I think this subject is our generations the emperors new clothes everyone knows that men aren't women But they pretend they they pretend so they fit in yeah, dude You're just projecting your own ideas on to everyone else I would say again Don't be so egotistical. You don't know what other people are thinking and also, you know The things that you think are real and grounded in reality Most of them don't even exist Well, let me ask is brenton if you're at a bar and you see a pretty lady and you give her a kiss And then you find out she was born a boy. Would you not be upset? Uh, yes, I would not be upset because i'm bisexual Okay, I would be upset. I would be upset because you're because you're trans No, i'm not transphobic because i'm a heterosexual because I would think that if I was kissing a girl It should be I'd be kissing a girl It doesn't make me a phobia That makes me based in reality that I thought I was kissing a girl. I should be kissing a girl But here's the thing If you go into a bar and you see a pretty lady and you are attracted to her and you go up and you kiss her And then afterwards she says oh I was a sign male at birth and it would be a jerry springer episode and we'd be throwing bows We'd be in the parking lot throwing bows jerry springer style Like oh, i'm a real idiot. I'm a real idiot because I just kissed the boy that tricked me Now see you don't even understand what that how that is bad. That just shows you how based in reality you are Okay, again at hominem So a trans person shouldn't have to say their biological sex to somebody I mean, I would say that if you are engaging in an intimate relationship It's important for your partners to know things about you like that for instance like You know if you're trans and you are infertile You should probably tell your partner before you get married if you know your partner wants to have kids That's I'm happy. I'm happy you're based now. You understand trans people are infertile. Thank you. We can go ahead and okay Let's move on 10 dollars from sphincter of doom the testosterone level guidelines are above the female range and creep into the male range Which if that isn't an advantage then how then low t low I'm sorry Which if that isn't an advantage then low t males should get complete Should that should get compete should get compete. Yes. What he said should get compete against women with no advantage So should get to compete. Yeah, okay So if there is a male who has low enough testosterone that he drops into the range for women Yeah, fine. I don't give a shit. Let him let him compete with women. Now. Wow Wow, that's the other thing here Uh is that the problem that he's having there because he's saying that it's like higher t That's because again We're dealing with athletes like elite athletes are different from the rest of the population So an elite female athlete will oftentimes have much higher Testosterone than uh your average woman. So that's It sounds like you've got a point there, but you don't really have a point. He has a point. Go ahead Okay, let's move on if you're not economic for 199 n sex slash gender divisions. Just have human sports Uh, you know, I actually am not entirely against that. I think that certain sports It makes kind of sense, but I think weight classes are more important Um combat sports like uh martial arts Usually, I think it's probably a good idea to Gender segregate or I'm sorry to sex segregate If we're going to do that and it's probably a good idea Just because there is a large advantage because for instance like shooting competitions or chess. I think You know, there's no reason to have those gender segregated In fact, this is really interesting in baseball Woman by the name of jackie mitchell Uh, this is really famous because she was playing For the uh, washington senators and it was kind of it was during the great depression and everybody was like, uh, You know, let's get a girl to play just so people will come out and watch Well, what wound up happening was was that she wound up pitching against two of the greatest baseball players of all time Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig She struck them both out now Babe Ruth he's he's a big swinger. He gets struck out quite a bit But Lou Gehrig no no he and he went after babe Ruth So after he saw this 17 year old girl strike out one of the best baseball players of all time Then he went in and did his best to hit that ball and he couldn't hit it and she won Shortly after that a number of teams started to recruit female pitchers And then suddenly everybody had a problem with it and they passed rules saying no No, you can't allow them to compete with men only men can compete and again That doesn't even make any sense because you know as we've established here Men usually have a biological advantage in certain sports So like why did they then go? And and force her to only compete with women It's because people freak the fuck out when things that they think are are set in stone and real are actually challenged It causes cognitive dissonance. They lose their minds and uh, you know people in the media Who are looking for clicks and politicians who are looking for angry people who will do whatever they want Will take advantage of these people who are like just losing their shit over Let's move on Britain. They're mad because you want to change the whole entire sport to for the 99s percent should have to be Suffer for one percent of the people. That's why have I have I advocated at any point in this debate to change any rules in sports at all No, but we're talking about the the fairness of trans athletes Anomic economic for 199 females are a social construct fake like the globe Yes, I mean the globe isn't fake, but yes, so here's to how this works Let's give another one a crawl dot 8029 $5 print in which side should non-binary join if only gender matters and not sex We can fix this by banning anyone who uses drugs in professional sports Okay, so here's the thing we do have things banned by people using drugs However in sports what's very important is is that there are rules specifically for people who are disabled or have different Bodies can do things that would normally be considered like doping To bring themselves up to the average level For instance, I think there was a famous runner who had Fake legs And as a result of having fake legs he was lighter and could run faster and people said well, this isn't fair Should we kick him out? But the fact of the matter was that they looked at it and they were like well He does have an advantage because he doesn't have legs, but also it's within the Like the expectable the the acceptable spectrum. So yes, he can compete With his legs even though they are technically an unfair advantage. So If someone's doing hrt for instance, um, that's not the same thing as doping Okay, so here was the two for one. Um, here's uh, 199 from daily breakfast Here's a dollar 99 for brendan to do some research and then One man army the only one who did any research for this brend. You're getting crushed him by these questions I should just give you a big clue One man army two For the for the peanut gallery around here. I don't give a shit. Yeah, that just shows you you're not basing reality I mean, that's no it shows that i'm way smarter than all these idiots You really believe that brend. You really think you're smarter than everybody here. Wow. I mean, I'm not surprised You and I am probably smarter than most of the people commenting one dollar in in there because again These people are barely literate continue. Please guys. Yes. Let's just get these out of here One man army two electric bulu two dollars if anyone's triggered. It's you brenton Uh, devour five dollars. Did my face squished into a red mask and did I run away for like five minutes? No I went to take a leak. What are you talking about? I'm not running away. I'm not a You took you were triggered. It's all right. No, are you kidding? I went to take a leak I'm not triggered all brenton. You took the biggest l of your life tonight. Did you got I don't I don't think either I'm not based in reality. You're the one that doesn't even know the difference between a boy and a girl You actually think boys can have babies. You're the one that's not based in reality, bud Here look, I'm sure look this up No boys ever had a baby in the history of mankind. That is not real. I don't care how many times you google I know that for a fact. I know that Okay, gentlemen, gentlemen, devour for five dollars Is the kentucky derby wrong for not allowing me to compete in the horse race when I identify as a thoroughbred race horse Um, okay So is the kentucky derby wrong for that? No, but again, this is not about identification at no point Has any sports league said if you identify this way you can compete that not not at the higher levels like the ncaa and the Uh and the ioc like in the olympics. They're not going to do that. They are it is based right now It is based upon your hormones So again, if you go through some surgical procedure in 200 years to turn yourself into a horse Maybe you can compete then but at this point. No, that doesn't make any sense all right, thank you so much from, uh Kawani upstate for five dollars says uh separating Separating sexes in sports is about the most fair rule to ensure the most competition Not about picking specific cases to change the whole rule with No one's picking specific cases to change the whole rule with again. These rules have been changed for since like 2006 so, okay, please Uh five dollars from sphincter of doom for uh people love michael felps, but that might change if they competed against women um If michael felps can but no one's saying michael felps should compete against women. So what the hell are you talking about? Lady grim 412 for five dollars brenton. How is it? How is Uh brenton, how is this fair to women trans women have an undeniable biological advantage drugs cannot reset a human Do women's rights not matter here? So one drugs do matter and can reset a human in a number of ways A woman has a right to To fair competition as much as anyone else as much as a trans woman and while we are Segregating these leagues based upon gender I'm perfectly fine with having trans women compete with women so long as they fall within the acceptable Within the acceptable range set by the ioc and the nc double a like again It's your idea that women can't win right here That is you putting women down as you putting yourself down It's one of the reasons why I wanted to have this debate because it is really really important to me that people Not do exactly what you're doing that people not be bad sports like that 17 year old swimmer who complained Because i'll tell you what if she was one of my swimmers I would have come down on her like the hammer of god after that if you go up to somebody you say Oh, this swimmer is taller than me or this swimmer is testing me. I just can't win You are throwing yourself under the bus and you are throwing sports in general under the bus And you should by all rights be be corrected Okay, uh 10 dollars from sphincter of doom both parties here don't understand sex one percent are not intersex It's closer to 0.01 percent. That's a lot one percent figure is based on slightly different quality Qualities associated with the outward sex not actual intersex Okay, so right there Sex is based upon the outward criteria on the out like do you think that people Before they knew about chromosomes Before they knew like sat there and said, okay, this is an xx This is a woman and this is an x y. This is a man. No, we created gender and we created sexual categories specifically because they have Utility to us utility to our science utility to our our society, but they are not real these are mental projections based upon the world itself and I really wanted to get into it about this so like Okay, male and female exist on a spectrum. They are ideals There is no 100 male and no 100 female in all of reality Rather as I said, it's like mathematical limits the line continuously approaches the the line in the graph But they never actually touch so As we talk about these kinds of things sex gender race these are Not real these are mental projections They are tools that humans create to navigate the world around them They're very useful But they just don't always work and we need to be cognizant of that because humans are the rational animal and we're able to overcome these problems And and begin to get a better idea as to what actual reality is like as a result of that $2 from tiny Batman if sex did not exist would gender exist Uh If sex did not it might I mean, you know again like humanity has specific ideas about how people should behave based upon certain criteria if you are born as And people say you're a man Even before you can make memories usually relatives are dropping toys on you that are associated with boys or girls or whatever You know society has certain expectations for men and certain expectations for women Um, and you know they fit a large percentage of us, but uh, not everybody So I mean we should make accommodations where we can All right $10 from sphincter of doom. Men do not start female the fetus starts out undifferentiated in either differentiate to male or female No, that's not true. It just differentiates to female in the absence of the sry gene Yeah, no, this is completely false continue Sphincter of doom for ten dollars sex is not a spectrum sex is the reproductive condition of an organism and in humans That's based on gametes. You produce humans produce only one of two gametes determined by the sry presence or lack thereof Okay, so again sex is a spectrum Because gametes are not the only thing you can never boil down what sex is to like one or two variables and even if you could do that the fact of the matter is is that um Like the fact that you can choose that you're going to base this on gametes Or you're going to base this on chromosomes proves that this whole thing is subjective It is based on objective criteria and what I will compare this to is murder You know, you can say someone has been murdered objectively because we have laws that define what murder is but what What those laws are Is subjective and that's why the idea that's why like the definition of murder will vary from state to state In country to country and culture to culture Um, so there are a lot of things that we think are real That just simply aren't a killing is real murder is an opinion Gotcha. Thank you so much tiny batman. Why do we refer to female dogs as she? I think that they're just trying to like get somebody to say All right, uh five dollars from sphincter of doom neither of the parties here are well versed in biology Yeah, I mean, I'm not a biologist and neither is alex I I'm literally just a coach and an athlete who cares about this and has done a lot of research Okay, yeah, but you want to capitulate and and screw over the 99 for less than one percent of the population So you don't care about fairness. You don't care about sports Yeah, but then why should we change the rules for less than one percent? I did not say that we should change the rules. The rules have already been changed. They were changed almost 20 years ago Okay, one man army two electric boogaloo boogaloo for five dollars says brinton doesn't get the fact that once the y chromosome enters the egg That's it. You're going to be a boy, but the parts are going to develop later. Yeah, that's not true Again, there are xy women and xx men. We know that for a fact Gotcha. Thank you so much. We made it to the ones that I promised that we could get to so we are Making good time long horn legend for $10 a question for brinton A woman's fertility is irrelevant because in principle a woman can birth a child and a man cannot this debate is no um Again, we don't base womanhood on birthing a child because if we did then women who were born infertile would not be women and women who uh, you know No longer have the ability to burr the child would not be women and they both are very much very obviously women So In fact, this was a question I wanted to ask for alex and I feel like this hasn't been fair because a lot of the questions Have been coming at me and alex should get because every no the reason why they're all coming from you because you're so wrong britton That's why because you know the reason why? Yes, dude. Yes, that's why because you're insane. You're in it. It's not the community Modern day debate chat does not like me dude. Honestly god dude. Look at any other debate Dude, they don't even like my because I debate uh stuff. So no, it's not because i'm well-liked because you're so wrong But that's why they're all the questions for you The modern they're not either reaction. They're reacting in the way. They should be because you're not based in reality You can't even admit that lea tomas has an advantage going from the 457th ranked man to the number one ranked woman You can't even admit that so you're not based in reality, but that's why they're freaking out have an advantage She stops sending super chats, but it's not an advantage. This is outside of the realms of uh of competent of healthy competition So who cares continue They're still sending super chats. I warned them like so many times. They're they're very triggered. Oh my gosh Now as i was saying by the way, um The the modern day debate chat This community came out of debates between atheists and and creationists Both of those groups are heavily on the right wing. They are both heavily politically reactionary So anyone who takes a leftist position is usually going to get uh a lot of heat from the chat And anyone who takes a right wing position like you have taken will uh oftentimes be Treated better by the chat. That's just this community has nothing to do with anything All right, so look we've got 47 seconds left on the clock. Um I've got what one two three four five six seven eight nine more questions left on the list It's up to you guys You can tell me how many more questions you want to take you can tell me how much time They're probably all for him. I don't care. I'll sit here and listen to him sound like a real smart guy the whole time We can end it right now I'm not a bad sport. You got crushed, dude. You got it. You took the l like Stop sending super chat. I'm not basing out. You're the one that thinks a boy can have a baby You think a boy can have a baby britton. So you're telling me i'm not basing reality Yet, you literally think boys can have babies think about that, dude You need to do a lot of self-reflecting your self-awareness Because there you go. So you are just arguing the whole time about how oh, there's this one boy that went through minota Minipa. So that means it's equal what you are doing What you are doing is what's called a straw man. No, I'm crushing you in the debate in 4k for the internet No, no, no, no, I'm crushing you in a debate is what's happening So you guys want to finish these nine questions? Yeah. Yeah, I don't get go ahead. I don't care Let's do it. All right, but seriously no more questions guys I'm not going after this. Uh, the last one is uh Leslie flemmons is five dollars for brinton and that's it. I'm not going to do anymore. Awesome. Thank you. Okay. Um So where were we? Uh shoe vert Vertica for two dollars brinton is lying It's 0.018 intersex again. I was not saying intersex specifically I said some intersex related condition is about one percent of the population continue Tiny batman for two dollars if my test levels go to zero will my hands shrink Your hands won't shrink but your ability to actually hit or move things will definitely shrink Gotcha, daniel roberts for two dollars brinton. Can you see how this can be unfair? Yes, I absolutely can see how it's unfair. I just don't think it's unfair in a way that we need to make rules to prevent it Got you. Thank you so much. Uh for stupid whole energy for five dollars question for alex Are you a pimp on a blimp? I'm a pimp on a blimp eating steak and shrimp, you know it That's either one question for me is a pimp question because you know 99 is a pimp eating shrimp You wish britain you wish you had as much shrimp You wish you had as much blimp and you wish you had as much pimp as primetime 99 Um, okay. I mean, you know, I've always should admit that okay. Is he yes? Okay is a form of yes continue Gotcha, uh rick james from 999. Let's go brenton Got a fan out there. That's funny. Fuck joe. Bye. That's not that's not a fan, but okay Stupid whore energy for five dollars for alex How was a cis woman able to beat a trans woman in mma if there is a such big if there is such a big advantage No, I think that I think that's possible. Like there is a and brenton did make a point Like some women can long distance run better than men I'm not saying that that you know men are just totally at a loss but overwhelmingly That is the case where men are physically superior than women But yeah, there's a few sports, but like we look at the main sports. You look at a female golfer They they they uh tear off from a closer range than a man. You just look at a lot of different sports They have to make rules that are different for women than the men There's a reason why because we are not the same So 17 years ago the ioc allowed Trans women to compete with women and in those 17 years The trans women have not dominated any sport. They've been allowed to compete in a few of them have had wins, but it's been, you know a Incredible minority actually so this just isn't happening if it was because it wasn't as socially as acceptable as it's becoming today See the fact that where the media is making it so socially acceptable It's just gonna happen more and to be honest. Listen This is the one thing I can thank lia tomas for is giving more awareness to women's swimming a sport That probably nobody even talked about and now i'm going on shows and debating about it. You're debating about it So overall for the sport I could almost either lia tomas has done a lot for women's sport, but has she made it more fair has she made it more equitable? No Again, I this is people who don't know anything about sports or care anything about sports Just losing their shit because they don't like trans women That's not true. I don't mind trans women. I don't dislike trans women It's not because I don't like trans women that I don't think that they should be able to compete against You believe you don't you're you're cool with trans women. I have trans women. I have gay family members So I'm just saying and I'm saying I there's people in my life that have transitioned their sex that I'm finally then I'm cool I don't I don't hate anybody because of their sexual because of their their trans that'd be insane This is okay. This is how this is how bias works You people think of bias as if like you you know that you're lying in your head, but you choose to lie otherwise It is subconscious. It is unconscious So if you have a bias against trans women, you wouldn't know it The only way you could know it is by is by talking to people around you and figuring that out And I just said lia tomas is good for bringing awareness to the sport. I just don't think it's fair I'm saying so that's not Because I don't like her No, no, no when I was talking about that I was referencing when he swam on the male team not when she swam on the women's team That's the only time I've ever mentioned lia as william. Yeah, that's fair. Thank you I'm the sun. I'm I did misunderstand understand that so continue cos Okay, we're on your guys time now. So I don't care anymore. Um Where were we uh from kobold for 20 dollars frinton is a spout Is a spousal of unproven progressive beliefs for the benefit of marginalized groups ethical If trans women will never be women scientifically, but society repeating it enough times makes it real Is that ethical? So again, scientifically, no one is a woman or a man. This is a social, uh It is Scientifically someone can be female or male, but again, we exist on a bimodal spectrum and everyone's like, you know Most of the are distributed towards the Right and left end and then there's a couple of edge cases in the middle around, you know 1% and getting smaller as you eventually approach like true intersects or however you want to say it Okay, thank you so much. And uh, we have a one dollar canadian from matthew de martin with no, uh words attached to it So thank you matthew From leslie flemmons for five dollars brinton. What is a woman? Ah I'm glad you asked So my definition of a woman is for someone to one identify as a woman and two Be acknowledged by their community as a woman In much the same way for someone to be a doctor They must identify as a doctor and be acknowledged by their community as a doctor and allowed to um practice medicine No, they have to pass a board. They have to pass a test That's not just recognized. That's not just being recognized and you can be a doctor and not a medical doctor So that's that's not a that's really apples and oranges. I'm just saying because you can be yeah Yeah, because you can be a a psychologist and be a doctor. I'm saying there's different levels of doctors So that's not a good example But it's not it's not the thing is you're talking about social constructs get to decide stuff That's not based in science. I think science describes it. So that's the difference between you and me I believe in science and you don't okay. So let me explain something um everything That has to do with like how we interact with society and with each other is a social construct If we were to for instance put scientists in charge of our country and put scientists in charge of sports What would happen that that would still be a social construct the social construct would still just be choosing to empower scientists That doesn't make sense. Go ahead Yeah, it makes sense. You just don't understand it continue. No, I understand it. It just doesn't make sense Because that is the last of our questions. So Thank god Brent, you took the biggest l I've ever seen l's in the chat of Brent took an l you come watch my chat after You got crushed. You're not based in reality. I don't care about the opinions of ignorant people So, we'll see that's he that's the thing is I do care about the opinion of everybody because I'm a populist I'm not a conservative. I'm not a liberal. I actually care about what people think of the majority of the time I actually think that the majority of people do not believe it is fair for a biological male to be able to have gender dysphoria And decide what their gender is after swimming on the men's team for three years and compete against the women Now, there's a very small people the IOC Or some sort of no, no, okay Some nc AA people that have done that to be more inclusive, but for me I don't think the 99% should have to capitulate for the 1% So I'm gonna ask you something because you claim to be a populist If most people agreed with me Would you change your position? Well, most people wouldn't because If you're talking about a hypothetical, that's not true. I mean if I'm trying to show you Dude, if frogs could fly they wouldn't bump their ass when they jumped. I mean you wouldn't understand that so go ahead Again, if it's L L. There's so many L's. That's just sad all the L's you lied about being a populist No, I didn't lie about being a populist. You are you don't even know you won't even admit that boys can't have babies You're the liar. You're the one that took the L because you can't even you can't even differentiate a simple thing As boys can't get pregnant You don't even know about a female basketball. You don't even know about female sports Because it matters because A biological male would have an advantage if he had gender dysphoria competing against it And you know what? I can't wait. Juana man was a great movie. I can't wait till juana man becomes the real I can't wait till shack comes out of retirement I should queena in wins an NBA championship By films like juana man and ace ventura and yeah, that would be that would be that would indoctrinate us to be more Acceptable for it not to be less acceptable Yeah, that's how predictive programming works But yes, it would make us more socially acceptable because we saw it in top culture I'm a sheep. Go ahead. Yeah, sure. You're you're the one that doesn't think you think boys can have babies brittan Let's let's wrap it up. It's not going to work. That's what you said. You said boys can have babies So you that shows you how smart you are. You're really smart because you think boys can have babies You think I got a penis can have a baby. You're so smart brittan. You're a genius. Boys can have babies I'm so smart boys can get pregnant. You're having after a show right brenton. Yes. Yes. I am Uh, so are you gonna join him alex? Are you gonna continue this debate over there? No, I'm not gonna join him Dude, I'm print I'm not in that I got all the channel all the time. I'm on the grind. He needs my shine I'm here doing you a favor. I'm compared to print times capitulating to you dog. I mean come on Let me explain something right here. I really don't mean man's playing something Man's playing something. I don't want that. I don't hear to have you mansplain Um, okay, I would assume we were both men so it wouldn't be man. I'm not see you assume my gender wrong I am gender fluid and you don't even know I understand you gender fluidity and I am a woman right now I'm alexandria because you don't even understand that Why would that have anything to do with anything you have said because you assume my gender don't assume anything britain do not assume stuff Okay, can we again you are just reading things that you've heard from people because no i'm repeating facts Boys can't have babies. You don't even understand that you don't understand that simple concept You think boys can get pregnant. You're so smart Oh boy, can have babies You think men with penises can have babies that's what you said in this debate. We could play it back Modern day debate. Yes, you did. You said that they're the same. Yes, you did in the description below I really appreciate Everybody's coming out. It's honestly really weird that you are so focused on the like social rank and status and how many people listen to you Like no, I don't care. I'm just saying I know that you didn't care No, they're watching this and they agree with me. I'm just using him as an example of how you'd be lost I don't care about that. Do you think it actually matters that they agree with you? Oh my god Yes, I do think it matters. Yes, because I'm right and you're wrong because you're wrong You can't even admit you think boys can have babies reality created By people agreeing with it No, but but you're not basing reality. You said boys can have babies. I'm talking. I'm using them for this example I'm right. You said this can have babies brinn. That means anything else you say is coming from a person That's the loony tunes in the brain your brain is an ad hominem You can be loony tunes in the brain and also Well, you're loony tunes in the brain and you're also wrong. So you're both Actually, literally Can Isaac newton have a baby can Isaac newton have a baby brinn can Isaac newton have a baby Well, he's dead. So probably not when he was alive. Could Isaac newton have a baby? I don't know Yeah, he could that just shows you how smart you are. You think Isaac newton can get pregnant. Oh good one. Oh good one. You showed me That's how vapid you are Okay We're done Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us tonight on modern day debates We really appreciate everything that you guys have done. Well, super chats and elevating the conversation Thank you so much to our moderators in the chat for keeping the conversation civil Thank you to James for having this a wonderful platform for us to have these conversations I want to just say if you like what you heard tonight from either of our debaters their links are in the description Please check out brenton's upcoming graphic novel Please check out alex's channel want to say That if you enjoyed it, please like share and subscribe to modern day debates and Yeah, keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable And with that we will be closing out the show. So everybody have a great night and Yeah, that's it. Have a great night