 Hi, this is Brendan Ward from the Australasian Society of Association Executives here in Brisbane. I think it's fantastic that the association sector now has its own television programme and so I encourage you to sit back, relax and enjoy six degrees of association with Sarah, Rob and Andrew. Hello yet again and welcome to another episode of Six Degrees of Association, the only online TV show that's dedicated to association success. My name is Sarah Gonzalez. I'm from Redback Conferencing and I'm joined by two lovely gentlemen today. First of all, I'm going to introduce you first for a change. Thank you, thank you. I was about to say something, but thank you. Good to be here. Thank you, Sarah. And second, but definitely not second. That's right, alphabetical. Rob Barnes from AptiPie, Australia. How are you today? Thanks, Sarah. Great to see you again. Here we are again. Again, how long has it been? How many times? Too many. Too many and for some of our viewers, it's been too many. Yes, exactly. And for some of our viewers, they're probably going to know what's coming up next and that is thumbs up, thumbs down. So let's start on the positive, as we always do. Over to you, Rob. Thumbs up. I'm back to Rob first, are we? Yes, absolutely. It's always to the right. I want to give a thumbs up. I want to give a thumbs up this episode to Ozzie, the Australasian Society of Association Executives for a couple of reasons. Since the new CEO, Brendan Ward, came on board some time ago now, they've really started doing some great work, sharing information. I feel like for the first time in a really long time anyway, there's a real focus on creating a profession around working in association. So Ozzie and also because they've given us an opportunity to do 68 Live at the ACE conference coming up in a week or so. But Ozzie, it's important for all professions to have an association that represents them and as an association executive ourselves. I think it's great that Ozzie is stepping up to the plate. So thumbs up to them. And look for Brendan perhaps to do an episode introduction. We've got seats, we've got seats. So I'm all over that, all over that. I had to go to the negative, but thumbs down. So thumbs down is to the comment that you often hear from volunteer leaders, which is, I'm just a volunteer. I'm not sure how many times that I've experienced people being held to account and the comment comes back, I'm just a volunteer. Look at the end of the day, volunteer leadership will succeed based on the same qualities that help people succeed in every other pursuit in life. And we want volunteers that are committed to our purpose. We want volunteers that are prepared to take some level of risk. And we want volunteers that are open to new viewpoints. As my friend, Jeff DiCania, talks about, we want volunteers who are also comfortable with governing for the loss of control. And this is what it's going to take to succeed in 21st century associations. And so people who put their hand up, either because they're just looking for a title or something like that, that's not the kind of volunteer leadership that we need in associations these days. So thumbs down guys, we need you to step up. Definitely agree with that one. Now your thumbs up, I'm really excited about because I love these guys. I can see that. I got a thumbs up to Get Up Australia. We're a few months away from a federal election here in Australia, potentially a few weeks it seems. So look for Get Up to be a lot more vocal over coming months. I mean Get Up are a social advocacy group. You know, they look for issues and they advocate very strongly towards big, you know, same sex marriage, think environmental issues, think social conscience issues. These are what they do. Now Get Up have such a unique model and this is what I really do admire about them. They've got over a million members around Australia, but their funding model is such that they'll say, look, membership's free, first and foremost, anyone can join Get Up. And then they go to their members when there's an issue out there that needs attention, think of those ones I mentioned. And they'll say, this is what we want to do. Maybe it's to support, maybe it's to oppose. This is what we want to do. We want you to help us fund this campaign, either opposing or in favour of. So it's a really exciting social crowdfunding process that they go through and really, you know, something very, very really modern and really something I think a lot of associations can look to as a lesson. So just they're only 11 years old too and a million members is, speaks volumes for the profile they've built. My thumbs down. We sort of go from the future to the past, I think. And my thumbs down is a very simple one this week. It's associations that haven't yet mastered the simple art of online renewals and renewals and registrations or membership purchasing. You know, we're in 2016 now, aren't we? I am right at that. But, you know, this last week I came across two pretty big associations that still have a very, very rudimentary download, our membership form, fill it out, scan, email, probably fax. Off these membership forms. And I think really, I mean, it's such a bad way of doing things for two real reasons. One, it's incredibly inefficient for you personally. And secondly, why do you want to put a barrier in front of your members joining or renewing? You know, you want them to seamless transaction process online as everything is these days. So big thumbs down to those associations. You know who they are. You know who you are. That aren't utilizing art and joining the 21st century with a simple automated online renewal process. It'd be good if there was a technological solution for that kind of thing in the 21st century. We know someone in the area. Can't think of anyone off the top of your head. Okay, so now we're going to move through to the next segment. And this is our lunchtime special where we actually go and we talk about a topic. And this topic is something I think it's one of the best topics to talk about. And I know you guys can go on for a very long time. So I'm going to ask you politely to keep it short and sweet. She's got the bell. She's got the bell. I do have the power of the bell and I'm not afraid to use it. So do you need to be passionate about your industry in order to be a successful association's professional within that industry? It's interesting. The politeness comes on the cameras on, isn't it, Rob? Yeah, that's exactly right. Anyway, over to you, Andrew. Thanks. And it is a fantastic question. You know, passion. And you know, I think Rob, you sort of feel, you know, his passion a bit overused. I mean, what does passion mean? But you know, I mean, there are, you know, the association sector is so vast. You've got so many different industries and so many different people working in those industries. But you know, does passion, is passion measurable and do you need to be passionate about an industry? I don't know. But I do think so. You have to be very informed. You have to have a deep understanding of the industry you represent. And I think that's probably, to me, overrides that passion. You know, does a bank manager need to be passionate about the financial system to be a successful bank manager? I don't know. But he needs to understand the financial system very, very deeply. I think they, I have often felt like I am passionate about X has become a little cliche. I've read so many job applications and I'm passionate about this industry. I'm passionate about this kind of work. I think its overuse has come, but I like the fact that people are trying to describe, there's a level of authenticity that is lost in a lot of those discussions. So while it may be difficult for some people, it might be difficult for me to understand why someone is interested in sewage treatment and that there is an organization that is, but the impact of that work is very meaningful and I can easily understand how that, you can be passionate about creating clean water solutions for parts of the world that don't have access to clean water. So, you know, again, it's probably about a focus. Do you need to have a deep passion for the function of membership marketing in order to be really successful at it? No, I don't think so. You just need to be productive, efficient, effective, have a strong work ethic. Does the combination of all of those things mean that you're passionate? Perhaps it is. You know, there's a lot of people talk about, you know, you want to find your passion and pursue your passion. Well, you know, at the end of the day, there's just a lot of work that needs to get done that you can be really, really good at. Yeah. And that's okay. So, I don't know whether you need, and certainly I do not feel that you need to hire people who have a deep expertise in a particular industry in order for them to be really good at the job within your association. You know, you don't need to love the fitness industry to work for Fitness Australia. So, on that, you know, both of you have association backgrounds. You know, are you passionate about the fitness industry and Rob, in any of your previous roles, have you been really passionate about the place that you've worked for? Yeah, and it's a good question because, you know, a lot of people come into the association world from that industry, and they sort of take a role that represents that industry that their grounding is. And I'm in that camp. So, I came from a fitness industry background. I now work for a fitness industry association. So, yeah, you know, I was, and when I came into the fitness industry, I was passionate about the fitness industry. I still have tremendous passion for the industry itself. Does it make me a better association as a professional for a fitness industry body? I don't know. I'm passionate about the work associate. I'm passionate about the impact associations can have on the world. And whether that's through employment with an association, which has been my previous life, whether it's through my employment, we have to find out and the whole idea of association success, that, to me, that's kind of where, you know, and that's why I like what I was doing in terms of promoting the profession of association management because I do believe it's a profession, one that's not celebrated enough here in Australia. Was I really passionate about the fitness industry? Not necessarily. I was passionate about the fitness industry association and making that a really, you know, was I passionate about Australian canoeing when I was the CEO there. Could I paddle a canoe? I couldn't even stay upright in a canoe. But I was passionate about helping people follow their dreams towards the Olympic Games. So, it's a bigger picture than what they stand for. For me, a little bit more bigger picture. And again, you know, I reiterate that I can certainly understand how someone who's a biochemist can be really passionate about working with an association to achieve clean water solutions, no matter their title, no matter their sort of role or whatever it might be. And so, I think in the 21st century, it's about its cause, its impact, it's those sorts of things, as opposed to the industry or even the profession for that matter. Agree? Yeah, I do. And Gavek's my point. Does working in the fitness industry association am I more effective because I'm passionate? I don't know, but I think I'm more effective because I have a good understanding of the industry. And I think that, you know, having that deep understanding is what really drives it. But you make a great point, yeah. I'm passionate about the association sector as well. And I think that sort of helps me in that role regardless of what the specific association is. You know what's really important these days is the notion, perhaps the previous notion that the best people in an industry or a profession would never choose to work for the association, that you would get the all-so runs. And I heard a CEO, a really successful CEO, a guy called Mark Randall-Speak, and his comment was, you know, pigs bum we can't get the best people to work on the meaningful work. And I totally agree. I think that we undersell ourselves as associations when we're recruiting to think that we can't attract the best people in that sector to do the work of the association for the good in the entire sector is just not true. And perhaps when we go into recruitment, it's not just about looking for people who are necessarily passionate about the whole sector, but it's, we want to make an impact in this area, this particular cause, you know, whatever get up is like focused on. Let's get the best people into that place. Associations are really uniquely positioned to attract that kind of attention. I just don't think we leverage it very, very well. Yeah. Yeah. No, great point. And, you know, I mean, we mentioned our good friends at Aussie, you know, a passion, obviously, for the association sector is obviously driving a lot of their good outcomes that they're achieving at the moment. When we talked about branding, we talked about branding not that long ago, for instance. You know, we talked about the Institute of Architects. Well, of course, the Institute of Architects could really leverage someone who has a deep passion for architecture as a way of presenting what the impact of the Institute of Architects can have on the world. And so there's no question that at that point being passionate about your industry can add value. I just think that, well, I've certainly, you know, just saying that you've got passion for the industry doesn't mean you're going to get the job. Yeah, I think it's a very interesting point. You know, there's a few of those words, passion and engagement and those words just come about. And I think it's probably a better question to ask, you know, what do you not have a passion for? Because I think everyone seems to have a passion for everything they dip their toe in these days, and it just gets a little bit just watered down, don't you think? Yeah, look, there's parts of running an association. You're trying to hire great people to perform certain functions that are going to deliver great value to the work that you're doing. And I certainly believe that you can hire a membership manager at the Institute of Architects that's been their membership manager at the Institute of Actuaries and they'll be very, very successful because of their functional expertise and their passion for creating engagement. Yeah, essentially. And so the industry itself, in that respect, it's neither here nor there. You know, they will get deep domain expertise because they're passionate about it and they're going to research it and they're going to put their best foot forward. At the same time, when an association says its core purpose is to significantly move the needle on an issue, you're going to need someone that's passionate about that issue to lead that conversation. And I'll shout out to our former CEO, Loretta Stace at Fitness Australia when she was there. I mean, she led that conversation about what the fitness industry's impact was on the Australian population passionately for a decade. And we followed her over any hill she wanted to walk over because she demonstrated that. But that's not enough. In a lot of places, that's simply not enough. Or, as I say, if you've got a functional expertise that you're passionate about, then that's just as much value to an association. It's probably almost just a point on that. Perhaps you'd be representing as a maturing of the association industry. So, yeah, I can be a membership manager at one association, then another, then another. The skills I develop in that association membership space are transferable, among others. And I don't necessarily need to be and have an engineering background to be successful in the engineering as Australia. I don't necessarily need to have a financial planning background to be successful for financial planners as Australia. I need to have a solid understanding of the fundamentals of associations, what makes them work and successful. Having an understanding of the industry absolutely is something that's fundamental as well. How many times have you experienced it or have you seen it in sport? Just because you're a great player doesn't make you a great coach or manager or CEO. And yet, in that industry particularly, it's, I was going to say rampant, but that's probably a little negative connotation. But that pathway between elite player, athlete or whatever into the management of the association sort of things, I mean, happens all the time. It doesn't always work. So, yeah, you can be passionate about coaching a team or a sport and be a dismal failure when it comes to delivering value for that in that role. But you'll get a job in the commentary booth anyway. There's always another option. Passion versus education, I guess. Something that you can all continue online as hashtag 6DA. We would love to hear your thoughts. And like I said, we could do a whole 22 minutes on that. But we're not going to, so let's move on. Okay, now we get to the time, which is one of our favorite times, isn't it, Rob? It's a classic. It really is gold every time we love it. Certainly mine. For those of you new to 6DA, today is when we hand over to Andrew to talk about the fact that there is an association for everything. And this week, drum roll please. This week, the International Sewing Machine Collectors Association. You know, if there's not an association for everything, there must be out there. I'm sure I just haven't found it yet. But the International Sewing Machine Society, I should say sorry, my apologies to you members. I know you're watching. The ISMACS is actually a global body. It's a global association we're talking about here. Chapters in North America, Australasia, and the third being pretty much everything else, Europe and the rest of the world. Just an annual fee of $50. I presume that could be Australian. It could be US dollars. You receive a quarterly magazine. You get a starter kit. You get access to the world's largest archive of historical sewing machine related material. And you also get an opportunity to attend the annual convention. I'm not sure where that is this year, but stay tuned. I'll find out. What is interesting is that the website actually mentions that this is true, the ISMACS as the premier sewing machine collectors group. So that makes me ask, is there another one out there? Not quite as good. Are there competing sewing machine collectors societies around the world? Please tell us if that's the case. But good on the ISMACS, proving the point that, again, there is an association for everything and very pleased to highlight their excellent work in this segment. God, that would be an expensive hobby. Tell me about the starter kit. I want to know what you get. Do you really want to know? Absolutely. Someone out there, if you have ever received a starter kit from ISMACS, I want to know what's in the starter kit. That's gold. Yeah, gold. Great stuff. I'd love to know what they do at their conference too. Can you just keep talking for a sec? Here we go. It's the belt. It's the belt. Good timing. Look at that. Thank you. Two-minute warning. Thank you so much. Great cover story there. Thank you. Thank you. Glad to be able to profile them. Yes, so this is a time where we actually share your feedback, thoughts and comments from the previous episode. So we're going to just touch on this, first of all, outsourcing was what we spoke about in the lunchtime special last time. Good topic. And we did get some, one comment here, you know, we find within our organization it works for creative tasks that we have. So they outsource their tasks. And I know you've got like your Air Tasker and your Fiverr, those sort of sites that you can easily get stuff done for or admin a data entry. That's a challenge because you were kind of saying the creative process needs to be close to home. Well, this is my view of it. Someone's getting some success out of that. Maybe we need another panelist to start debating with you. I really like that concept of association starting to leverage Fiverr.com, Elans.com, Guru.com, these places where you can get short, simple stuff, tasks done really, really quickly and very, very cost-effective in these days. That's nimble and lean, nimble, lean, agile, good point. Thinking along the same lines. Yeah, absolutely. We also had a question from David. We don't actually know where David is from, but hi David, if you're out there. Looking into conferences and these big events that we go to, there's always so much to do, so little time. How do you maximise your time at a conference? Once again, one minute, guys. A massive conference attendee. I love myself a conference. Love a good conference. I always go with three things. Absolute focus on three things. You can't do everything. So, I've got a particular stream of thought, consciousness or something, a challenge. And I'm targeting, I'm looking at the conference list of attendees. I'm saying, I would need to meet that person. I want to meet that person. I need to attend that session and stay focused on that. As soon as I've ticked those sort of three boxes off, then I'm free in my head anyway to roam around and partake of everything else, but I always plan ahead three things that I have to take away. Partake in some fugue wine. There's beverages. There's socialisation. There's a lot of stuff that goes on the water, around the water cooler at a conference that you can take advantage of. I mean, I'm a bit the same, but you know, it's preparation. It's really having a clear understanding. You know, spend a bit of time, set that time aside well in advance of when you're actually turning up there. So you know, yes, I want to speak to these vendors. I want to speak to these colleagues and these are the sessions I want to attend and this is what I hope to be able to get out of them. And then don't be the person who takes notes and throws them away and never sees them again either. Actually, you know, really rely on getting something out of those events. And you know, it is a big time investment conference as it's getting there, it's attending and it's making sure you have time to prepare. Have someone hold you accountable for them to publish it, tweet, this is what makes free goals up. This is where I'm going. This is what I want you to hold me accountable to when I get back. Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. Well, that brings us to the end. Thank you guys. Next time. This is exciting. This is an announcement. Yeah. Next time we will be presenting, the three of us, we will be presenting in a fortnight, but it's going to be a different desk. It's going to be a live location. We're going to have a physical audience. It's going to be amazing. I can't wait. We're presenting live from Aussie Ace Conference 2016. So our session is actually on Wednesday, the 25th of May at 1.45. So take a look at your program. Make sure you're there to watch us. We're going to have music. We're going to have lollies, coffee cups, t-shirts. I'm not promising too much, but it's going to be pretty cool. Rob and Myle, our trailers will be transported to the... Of course. We're not going to be slumming it, are we? This is so exciting. Shout out again to Aussie Ace guys Thank you. for having a little bit of courage for us to do something different. Yeah. It's a great opportunity for us to be there and do the show live for the first time. Really looking forward to... Yeah, and have some panellists. Have some guests. Yeah. If you're interested, let us know if you want to be part of the show. Possibly some heckles. That's okay too. Well, and to those of our viewers that have been saying, we'd love it to go longer, it's going to be going longer. So... Wait a minute. How long can I still bring the bell? You can bring the bell. Okay, good. It's going to be a lot. I'm going to make a big, big bell. Yeah. Do that. Absolutely. So thank you everyone. We will see you there. We'll also be streaming as well. So if you can't make it to the conference, you can also catch us online at the regular time of 12.22. But thank you once again. It's been fantastic. Great again. Getting used to this. It's good. Yeah, it's all too bad. It's worth ways to spend 22 minutes, I guess. Yeah. Once again, go online to associationsuccess.org if you would like to share any comments, feedback, or thoughts. Or go to hashtag 6DA and share as much as you like. And remember that too much agreement always kills a chap. See you, everyone.