 Welcome to Skeptica, where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers, and their critics. On this episode, I have an interview coming up with Dr. Courtney Brown, a very well-known and important person inside the remote viewing community. And I'm assuming you all know the basics of remote viewing. That is this ability to be psychic in a way that the military first used for espionage purposes. But now people claim to be able to use for all sorts of reasons. You can go in the past and see what really happened in the JFK assassination or 9-11, which are both projects by the way that Dr. Courtney Brown has carried out as part of his Farsight Institute. Or as some claim, you can even look into the future. You can forecast Bitcoin. Another thing that Dr. Courtney Brown has done. So that's what remote viewing claims do. There's many people who do it. Courtney Brown is one person who's kind of broken off from the group of military remote viewers that did this for the government. He started out with that training, but kind of taken it to a whole other level. And that's partly because his background, as you'll see, Dr. Brown is also a very respected professor in the kind of mainstream academic way at Emory University, where he really again has kind of pioneered some research into advanced nonlinear statistical and dynamic modeling. I say that as if I know what it means, but he's quite accomplished. He's an actor and local theater there in Atlanta and really beyond Atlanta. He's an illustrator and quite an interesting guy in a number of ways that I hope will break down in this upcoming interview. But before we get there, I thought I might offer a bit of a remote viewing primer, skeptical style. Since I've been looking at this field for a long time and reporting on it on this show and really just trying to figure it out and reporting to you what I found, I thought I might share some clips from previous episodes and try and tie those together in a way that might set the stage for some of the questions I have for Courtney. So let me start here. It's a clip from an interview I did a couple years back with Lloyd Arbok, who is quite an interesting guy on his own, paranormal researcher, author, and in particular an author of a book titled ESP Wars East and West. It is true that we got involved, and it's partly because of fear that the Russians were getting somewhere. They had been spending effectively billions of dollars from the 60s onward. There's an indication that part of how they even got involved in this, interestingly enough, is because we released intelligence that we were doing testing, which we were actually not doing in the early 60s that scared the Russians into spending money and going in that direction. The idea being that this rumor that we would put out there to the Soviets would actually get them on a path of dead end. They'd spend money and time and energy on something that, according to our experts, probably had no validation whatsoever. And then we start hearing things from the Soviet Union, apparently, that they were having success. So this is one part of the remote viewing story that we can hang our hat on, and that is that at the end of the day, remote viewing is really just being psychic, right? I mean, it's just doing the stuff that psychics do. Looking into the future, maybe looking into the past, maybe looking at places and things that are non-local, but that they have some ability to perceive. So if remote viewing is really about a different way of being psychic, then I think we can start to understand why government intelligence agencies, CIA, DIA, all the IA's intelligence agencies, why they might be interested in the ability to spy on somebody psychically. I mean, there's some awesome advantages to that, which you can immediately understand, right? One is you're not going to risk being caught, or at least you're not going to risk it as much. There are all sorts of questions about whether you could tell if someone was trying to psychically spy on you, but leaving that aside, I mean, it's completely clandestine spying. And number two, from a just logistic standpoint, it's fantastic. It's non-local, it's instantaneous. We can sit Joe Meconical down, who happens to be psychic spy number 001, but we'll get to that in a minute. And we can say, Joe, go in your psychic consciousness and view this submarine base in Russia and tell us what's going on there, which he did. And there's some amazing drawings of what he was able to psychically receive and give to the handlers who were asking for that information. So that part of it is what we generally understand as remote viewing. That is, being psychic in a way that these intelligence agencies wanted people to be psychic. And a lot of that research is often connected to Stanford Research Institute, SRI, Hal Putoff, Russell Targ, two of the guys who are most often mentioned in connection with that research. And by the way, in case you don't know, I mean, these two guys are really, really accomplished scientists in their own fields, their world-known and highly respected. And then their careers kind of took this other direction as they got pulled into all these crazy projects with Stanford Research Institute, which, you know, every time I say this stuff, I kind of hesitate because I know like one-tenth of the story here. Every time you talk to someone who is there and knows more about it, they give you another side of the story. For example... We were at the SRI cafeteria, you know, having lunch. And a big round table, and Geller was across the table from me. And Geller suddenly says, I want to do an experiment with you, Jacques. Now, this is a great story, and you'll hear the whole thing in this interview. But let me cut to the chase. So Geller instructs Vellet how to do this little experiment, and it works. So they take the next step. They're right there in the SRI cafe, which kind of blows me away. I mean, they're sitting down having lunch, and they go, well, what the heck? We have some envelopes left over from the experiment we were just running. Let's use one of those, see what happens. I'm going to send it in two things. I'm going to send the whale, which is essentially a fish. I know a whale isn't a fish, but, you know, I'm going to send a fish, and I'm going to send the water jet that I see through the window. Geller said all of a sudden he was all business. He took his pencil, and he drew something, and he says, look, I'm going to draw what I'm getting. But I'm not getting one thing, I'm getting two things. I'm getting a fish, and then I'm getting a water jet. So he drew the two things. He didn't draw the target. There was no way he could have known that I did not send him the target. I sent him two things that I made up, and that's what he got. That's Jacques Vallée talking about his impromptu experiment with Uri Geller. Now, Uri Geller is such another interesting figure that kind of is on the side of this, but takes this story in another different direction that I thought would be interesting, and we might even ask today's guest, Dr. Courtney Brown, to comment on some of this history. But here goes. Here's the connection with Uri Geller. In episode 370 of Skeptico, you'll remember that we spoke with Greg Malazi, who's making a documentary about Andrea Padrej, who was loosely connected with the MK Ultra program because he was a professor at Northwestern University at the time, and they were doing all sorts of things. And one of the things he was tasked with was to find psychics. And he goes over to Israel, and he finds this amazing psychic, Uri Geller, who is known to Israeli intelligence. That is the Mossad, but nonetheless finds Geller, introduces him to the folks at Stanford Research Institute, and then they're off doing this psychic stuff. Again, remember they're tasked with psychic spying because it's kind of a good thing. But now the connection here with MK Ultra, and it's a loose connection, folks. I'm not trying to make it more than it is, but I don't want to make it less than it is, because there is this whole movement at this time to try and understand, utilize, operationalize, dare I say, weaponize extended consciousness. And it's all part of that. So Dr. Russell Tark has said, hey, we weren't doing anything with MK Ultra, and maybe he wasn't, or maybe he wasn't knowingly doing it, but I think we can find those connections there. And I think that's interesting. And the other thing about that story that's interesting is we all know Jacques Valais. We trust Jacques Valais. He's a smart guy. If he sat there in the cafeteria and Uri Geller was able to do that, then that means something. And of course, we already know that Uri Geller could do all this stuff because Targon put off tested them, and it's not that hard to test somebody. And if you go back and watch the videos that they've published, and we did a show on of the tests they did, you can see that number one, the protocol for those tests is not that hard. These scientists are more than capable of carrying out those tests. So the only conclusion we can come to is that all this stuff was really happening at SRI during the 70s and the 80s and the 90s, which is, again, if you're just open-minded and fair-minded, is established fact at this point, despite what you might read on Wikipedia. But there's really another story to tell here, and that story is best teed up by yet another Skeptico clip. What happens is Wilbur Smith is running the Canadian government, and then they call the Flying Saucer Program. So he's the top guy for the Department of Transport. He goes to the Americans, and he goes through there, and according to what Wilbur Smith got, the file comes back and Wilbur Smith writes his document and says, we've talked to American officials, and they have told us the following items. Flying Saucers exists. It's the most highly classified subject in the United States, rated two points higher than the hydrogen bomb. It's of tremendous significance to the Americans, and there's a small group headed by Dr. Vanavar Bush. He's running the program. And then this thing, which I wouldn't realize until 2012, was the next line in the document says, and we were also told by American officials that other things might be associated with the Flying Saucers, such as mental phenomena. Now, the key part to that is that now we sort of know aliens are telepathic. Do you have contactees, experiencers, abductees? All these people are talking about these aliens being telepathic. But in 1950, the first abductees would not be known until Betty and Barney Hills came out, the book came out in the mid-1960s. The contactees, who said, you know, they got for rides on Flying Saucers and stuff like that, would not appear until about a week after the detonation of the hydrogen bomb. Suddenly all these people appeared. But in 1950, there was nobody in the public who was saying, I'm talking to aliens and aliens are telepathic. That, of course, is UFO researcher Grant Cameron, who you may know if you've listened to this show for very long. And he's talking about, I think, this very, very important piece of history, which is the Wilberts-Smith memo. And the one thing I would add to what Grant just said is that if we look at the Wilberts-Smith memo in light of this larger umbrella of MKUltra and this interest in consciousness, mind kind of stuff, which also ties into the interest in remote viewing and Uri Geller kind of stuff. And if you put that in a further context of the present-day disclosure movement where the New York Times is telling us, yes, UFOs are real. Here's the video that the Defense Department has released. If we put it in that context, it puts a little bit of a different spin on the Wilberts-Smith memo because any lingering doubts we may have had about the authenticity of that memo really have to be put aside. I mean, we are in a post-disclosure world. So how could we even imagine that that document isn't genuine? So that'll fill in some of the background of remote viewing, but it won't quite get us to the point that I want to get to in this upcoming interview with Dr. Courtney Brown because there's one other clip I want to play for you, and it's the bridge to the larger questions about what remote viewing means. Here's the clip. So when I started my interview, what I came to find out was that they had opened a package that was inserted in my 201 file, my personnel file. What had happened after my NDE is all of these psychiatric reports and all of the final assessments as to what my experience was had been put into a permanently sealed file with a red stripe across it, and it said not to be opened except by commander of the intelligence and security command. And when they obtained my file, what they did is that was the first thing that used a lieutenant at the time. Lieutenant Atwater opened was that file. And they were very pleased to find that I had had this experience in 1970 because it meant that I was one of those special people that historically were able to probably do exactly what they were looking for. This is an important story, an important bit of history, and it's so controversial that even Ed May, who I interviewed on this show and was running the Stargate program when Joe McConnacle was there, couldn't really grok this. If you go back and listen to that very contentious interview that I had with him, he was in complete denial. I mean, he not only slammed Dean Raiden and withdrew into this scientific materialism shell, but he even found it very hard to accept the account of his colleague, of Joe McConnacle, who said this is exactly what happened. And the reason is because Joe's story really bridges us from this geeky techy we do remote viewing because it technically does this and that to the challenges we have of saying anything intelligent about these extended consciousness realms. Let me explain what I mean. So Joe McConnacle has the NDE and becomes psychic. How many times have you heard that story? If you've studied the near-death experience, science, literature at all, you know you're much more likely to be psychic after an NDE than before your NDE. Well, what's up with that? If we dig deeper and try and understand the spirituality of the near-death experience and connect that to the military intelligence aspect, we're left with the kind of questions that I guess I have for Courtney in terms of how are we to juggle these two worlds? You know, of the many amazing videos that Dr. Courtney Brown has published on his Farsight website. One of the ones that really caught my attention and made me want to dive into this show was one that didn't have all the fireworks of remote viewing Mars or the dark side of the moon or Jesus' life. All targets that he's had and has provided some amazing information about through his remote viewing sessions. But the one that really caught my attention was the one about the Yogis, like Yogananda and other Yogis who offer us a glimpse past the illusion of this time-space reality we're in and might offer a clue to what remote viewing is really all about. So we're about to head off on quite an exciting journey here with Dr. Courtney Brown, and I hope you'll stay with me for it here on Skeptico. Dr. Courtney Brown, thanks for joining me. You know, I did a lengthy introduction to this interview that people will hear before they jump into this conversation. So I don't need to go over all that again, but I did want to thank you so much for joining me. I think you're such an important figure inside this. I guess I want to call it consciousness community. Your work is amazing. I think you're especially important in light of everything that's going on today. And I'm a little bit surprised when I set up this interview. I was a little bit surprised that, hey, everybody's got to be talking to this guy about this stuff. I mean, we are in the middle of disclosure. I mean, the New York Times is coming out and saying, oh yeah, there really are UFO videos released by the Department of Defense. And then, you know, the RV original guy, Dr. Hal Putoff is putting his name in there and saying, yes, this is all real and ET is real and UFO is real. And here you are sitting back, Dr. Courtney Brown. And this has kind of been your thing for the longest time. You're well, well known inside the remote community as we just talked about. But have you given much thought to where you are right now in terms of this stuff that seems to be coming around to what you've been talking about for so many years? Yeah, it looks like it's a bit of a wave, but we've seen these waves happen before. And, you know, you just have to, it's like just don't believe it until you actually see it. So some people are coming out and saying some things, but in terms of a mass level of disclosure, I don't think that's going to happen right away. The reason is that the mass level of disclosure where governments actually say, yeah, this was going on. They don't do that unless they get something big from it. There has to be some reason for it. They're not going to just unleash that on the public. They'll keep it going as long as they can. They have to get something back from it. And right now, there's nothing they're really going to get back from it. Like if they have a full disclosure, you'd have to say, okay, well, what did the government get for that? Not just our government, but the Russian government. And like they don't really get anything for that. The one thing you should erase from your line permanently is that they'll do it just to be good guys. I mean, that just won't happen. So you're getting some people come out and you're still not getting any articles about it and the level that it needs to be talked about openly. Whether that happens in 2020, I don't know whether it happens 2021, 22, 23, 25. I don't know. But the process of making that happen is incremental. So unless we keep just giving the stuff out that we do, it won't ever happen. So it's very important that you don't expect like a sudden wave, like a sudden immediate, there'll be an incremental movement. And what we do is part of that incremental movement. That's a good part of it. And what you're seeing right now is something that's very valuable from that perspective of that incremental movement. But it's not the biggie that you're actually thinking about. Okay. You know, let's talk about that a little bit. And Courtney, you know, I have this little kind of game that I play because it kind of helps move the conversation along and frames it up for people a little bit. I call it Skeptico-Jeopardy, where I have a bunch of categories and then you get to pick. But since you kind of let us in there, I'm going to take the honor of picking the first one. And then I want to talk about RV history a little bit because I think that what you said is really important and really significant. And I think we have to understand the past before we can understand the future. And I think what you alluded to is part of understanding that past is they ain't going to do nothing unless it's in their interest. And for one, I guess I'm very skeptical about the current round of disclosure. I guess let me deconstruct a couple of things you said because there were so important and there were so many things going off in my head and I have to kind of pull it all back. One, I want to push that a little bit further because I think we've seen an unprecedented level of disclosure. Never before. New York Times, the way they pushed that story out there, Fox News, CBS News, everybody coming out, the Department of Defense guy, Lou Elizondo coming out and saying, here are the videos, people. These are the videos we took on our Navy fighter pilots and they are real and UFOs are real. We've never seen anything like that. Now, the only way I think to interpret that is inside the framework you talked about, which is to immediately step back and go, hey, what are they playing here? What kind of game? And the thing that keeps coming back to me from that is Defense Department. Defense Department, Defense Department, Defense Department. I mean, if you look at this latest release, that's all they talk about. And that's very suspicious from these guys who have manipulated and controlled this information, denied this information. So, one, I want to kind of push back in that, do you see this as I do as a unique wave among the waves? This is kind of a unique wave. And what might you, I want you to speculate a little bit. What do you think is the agenda? Are they trying to make ET more friendly? Are they trying to make RV remote viewing your field more friendly? I mean, again, Dr. Hal put off is right in the middle of this. So, we're riding along this tail is the idea that, oh yeah, we've been denying the remote viewing stuff over the years, but there's no need to deny it anymore. This stuff is real. Do you have any thoughts on any of that? Yeah, it's an incremental movement. It's not something that's coming out in a way that's got the, like the president is not making an announcement. Congress isn't coming out with an announcement. And the Defense Department is, you have to understand, the Defense Department works for the government. So, they can't do things that are totally autonomous. They actually do a lot that's autonomous, but something like that they just can't come out with. And you also have to understand that the government, in terms of the elected officials, are not very important in all of this. So, the elected officials, they are there. They get elected or re-elected every four years or two years or six years. But the real powers behind all of this are financial interests that you don't see. You just don't see them. And those people don't want the boat rocked. And in terms of the Defense Department, they're in a very delicate position because they know that politicians get voted out of office, like the presidents get voted out of office. They just cycle through. So, there's really no reason to tell the president everything. Presidents have had a very difficult time getting real information about the UFO-AT phenomena. And the Defense Department says, why basically should we do that? They're going to cycle out anyway. And it may be that they do get a file that sort of tells them a bunch of stuff so that the Defense Department can't be accused of keeping that information totally. But do they get everything? And so, the Defense Department just can run out the clock with any politician. And you don't really know if you can trust a politician. They're just a political person that got a lot of votes. And do they really have a security clearance? Do they really know how to deal with things in the Defense Department people? They're there for decades. Those are career people. And they say basically they're in a situation where they can say, hey, if we wait a couple more years, the guy's gone. Let me interject a question there because great point. I love to run out the clock thing. Great point. In this case, we have what I always see as an outsider is a political PSYOP related to the UFO ET thing. You have John Podesta and the Clintons who were going to use the disclosure thing. And they were open about that before the last election. And then the thing, the election turned out very surprisingly not in their favor. And it looks like now they've just gone ahead and rolled that out anyway, right? The same people behind it, the same players. Now they just pushed it out. And that's fine, but it does look to me to be completely political. Anyone who doesn't ask, hey, how come everyone who's pushing this latest round of disclosure seems to be just from one political side? Not whether that's a good side or a bad side. It's like two competing corporations, if you will. But they do seem to have some operatives inside the Defense Department, or maybe I have that backwards like you're saying. Maybe the Defense Department has them. But there do seem to be other factions involved that are not wanting to disclose or wanting to disclose a different way or wanting to, I don't know, do something differently. So again, I guess I'm pushing that a little bit further. What about the political aspect of the current round of disclosure? What does that tell us about the relationship between the Defense Department and the higher level secret government, if you will? And what's going on in the political scene? Well, look at Podesta, John Podesta, for example. He was in the administration for a long time. When he was with Hillary Clinton trying to get her re-elected, or her, I'm sorry, her elected, he didn't have all the information. All he promised was that he was going to try to push for it and to get some disclosure. So even when he was in the White House, as someone who was working under the president, he didn't get it. When Barry Goldwater, a former senator from Arizona and political and presidential candidate who was very much in favor of the government, of the military, called up one of his friends, general friends, who he had a long tie with and said, hey, just give me the scoop. He got, this is his good friend. He got the rudest shutdown he said he ever had. He said, basically, he said, don't you ask about this again, period, or you're done. We're not talking ever. I mean, this was a good friend of his. Just shut him out and said no. So Bill Clinton has said that he tried to push, but he didn't really get very far. So on the other hand, if you look at Russia, for example, so not President Putin, but the guy who was in between President Putin's and Medjev, he was asked about it and he made some loose comments off the cuff saying, no, when you get to be president, what they do is they give you a folder and it talks about the ET stuff and tells all about the stuff, where they are and what they're doing. And he didn't say much more than that, but he mentioned there was a folder. So that may be just limited to Russia, but maybe something similar that happens in the United States. So I mean, the presidents don't call me and tell me. So I'm speculating, but, you know, we don't have any overt evidence that the political people have much information about this. So what you can say with the Defense Department is that I'm certain that there are some people in the Defense Department that really want to push this and push disclosure further, that they think it's in the planet's interest. And there are others that say, no, why should we do it? And I'm positive that the economic powers that we absolutely do not want it because they're not going to get anything for it. They don't do anything. They may have billions and billions and billions, but they don't give you $10 unless they get something from it. There has to be a reason for it. And I just don't see it. So you're seeing some leakages coming out, but it's not going to turn out to be an immediate, you know, presidential announcement type thing, in my opinion. So what we're doing at Farsight is actually absolutely crucial to that. So we're not yet being talked about in the New York Times. We're not yet being talked about in CNN. I've been interviewed on CNN a couple times, but, you know, we're not being interviewed and talked about on those venues. So the time is not right for that. So what we're doing is we're doing all of our projects. We have a huge list of projects that we've done that we've completed, and we have a continual string of projects. We come out with at least one project a month, and we come out with projects that are big projects. Some of the ones that come out with every month are projects that are show we have called TimeCross, and the ones we come out with that are really big that we sell as movies, we have those we come out, we sell those on Vimeo. So that's what we do. And then the money that we get from selling our videos, the YouTube money that we get is about a couple hundred dollars a month, nothing significant from the advertisements. The money that we get from Vimeo is a couple thousand, between two and five thousand dollars a month, depending on whether we have a big thing. Our payroll is twenty to thirty thousand dollars a month. So you can sort of say, where's the money coming from? Well, we do forecasts. We do forecasts that nobody sees, economic forecasts and things like that. And that's where our money goes, that's where our money comes to do things like that. So we have to have a different stream of income to be able to do this. But because we have a different stream of income, we can't put out these projects. And so our long-term goal is to be able to make significant YouTube contributions and movie contributions, not to get into the movie theaters, but that are downloadable and that fill in the gap of everything. Because when this disclosure moment happens that you're talking about, Alex, that's when Farsight's library is going to be incredibly important. That's when the whole kitten-gaboodle will be, that's when the world looks at us in real time and says, what the blankety-blank? And then they'll see it. So that library has to be ready. And that library is also ready for TV series and movies, things like that, of these projects. So it's not like we promise these projects. These are fully completed projects that can be filled out really quickly. So that's what we're actually doing. We're completing projects, we're setting them up. One is worth a television series, at least, and some of them are worth movies. And as long as we can keep affording to do them, we're going to, you know, do them. And so we have two things going on at the same time. We have economic stuff that's going on, and then we have these movies going on. And we have the people that work with us, our remote viewers. This is their job. This is full-time. They work on it every day. They come in, they work, they get it done. So they've been training with us and working with us and being professionals for five years. So some of them have shorter time spans, but some of them are really long. And that's the only way this could be done. So we knew that we had to pay people to do this, that it couldn't be done on their own budget in their free time. This couldn't be a hobby. This had to be a full-time venture. So we picked people that were good on camera, usually models or actors. And we picked people that had really great presentational skills, and then we paid them. So the typical mode for training people is to have people that want to learn pay the instructor. So we reversed that. We paid the people. And so now we have a royal set of people, and we're expanding that to be able to scale up to our needs. We have way more work than we can possibly do. So we're having to expand. But that's what our role is, building for that moment of great disclosure that you're talking about. Look at it this way, Alex. You know this Facebook thing that's going on that's got a million signatures saying they're going to storm Area 51 in September? Well, I don't think they're going to be able to storm Area 51 to look for the extraterrestrials. But that gives you an idea of how the public is getting antsy about this subject. And so that was actually... Whether there's a group of people that actually try to get into Area 51 or not, the very fact that you have over a million people signing a petition on Facebook demanding to know what's in Area 51, that's actually more important than government disclosure. That's telling you that the public is actually getting antsy about it. And when you have enough people demanding to know what's going on, and they simply don't believe the authorities, that they laugh at the authorities, and that the authorities start losing control, that's when it will become something that the powers that be will get something from it. They'll say, okay, now if we let it go, we maintain control. So that thing that's going on at Facebook is actually more important than anything else that's going on. Whether there's actually people that show up on Area 51 or not, I don't think they're going to let those people into Area 51, of course. But it is interesting that the movement has started. I'm interested to see how many people sign this. How many people sign the thing or click on the thing by the time September rolls around. That's interesting. You just touched on so many of the points that I wanted to touch on, and it's great that you did. I really appreciate the openness too. One thing, let's jump into I'm going to pick another category here because you just talked about it. I called it the far sight way. The idea is you have a certain way of doing things. We have to first introduce the Far Sight Institute and what it is, and you just talked about that a little bit, but you might want to backtrack a little bit and talk about the structure and that this is a non-for-profit organization, but you also have a for-profit organization. You've developed this thing called Scientific Remote Viewing. We have to talk a little bit about the history of remote viewing of a protocol developed by the military to be somewhat scientific so it could be repeatable and used for these espionage purposes. You as a trained academic, as a trained really science guy, political science guy but a science guy and understand modeling and statistics. Wait a minute. The best methods to be applied here should be like this and even in the way that you just described you think there's so many aspects of that that are embedded in your explanation, why you do things the way that you do, how you select targets, the protocol that you use, the RVers that you choose and you just brush over the fact that you decided early on that not early on, actually kind of later in the game you decided, hey I need to bring people in cold, train them in my technique top to bottom and then I need to control all these aspects of the remote viewing session both for the quality and content of what the remote viewing session generates but also for the presentation on video and how I'm going to present these videos. So, you know, we could spend hours and hours talking about the very impressive protocol and scientific work that you've gone into devising this thing that people see from the outward sense of, oh, that's Farsight Institute, that's this guy here produces these Hollywood style productions of what they saw in the moon landing or what really happened when JFK was assassinator what really happened on 9-11 and then they'll see this video as it plays out and they won't know all this stuff that's going on behind the scenes. So, if you will elaborate a little bit on what SRV is and more about the projects and protocols that I think people will find interesting. Yeah, well the original stuff that came out of the military was called CRV, controlled remote viewing and there were some people that had their own methods that weren't CRV such as Joe McMonicle but CRV was the one that was taught mostly to the military people and that was very interesting. It was an interesting process, it was developed by Ingo Swan and the military people that exist today tend to be very loyal to that approach and that's fine, that's good, they're doing a great contribution and so on but that's not the way we work so we started with the CRV methods and we said, well it's not doing everything we want to do and it's just not enough and we wanted to put more control. What do you mean when you say that? It's not enough specifically what were some of the limitations with the CRV the remote viewing that was done at most notably at Stanford Research Institute and then was taken out of that and some people did it in the private sector but like you said everyone just kind of, hey this is how we learned it this is how we teach it, this is the protocol we follow, some amazing results people can find on the internet of people who are able to be psychic in this remote viewing way so what were the limitations that you saw that you sought to overcome? I understand that the military people don't think that they have limitations so I'm just speaking for myself so the limitations that we had was ask and you shall receive you know the biblical phrase well that applies to remote viewing as well, the whole idea is you don't get anything unless you ask for it and that's called probing you have to actually put the pen on the paper and probe for something you have to know what you're asking for and you know the military, the CRV process doesn't ask for much so you're probing an ideogram and you're sort of getting whatever you get but we have wanted a whole laundry list of stuff that we wanted the people to ask about and the process also from my point of view was limited because it didn't include a mandatory phase of meditation so when we do it we have a mandatory phase of meditation that starts first and then after the meditation the viewers rest until there's no more tiredness to come out and without speaking anything they then calmly walk over to their desks and start their session and they're deep that's how we do it and that was not a mandatory element in the military stuff but that really... let me interject something here because I don't want people to go the wrong way talk about the probing thing because I know immediately for some people who are really knowledgeable and a lot of people listening to this show are they're hearing remote viewing probing and they're like oh he's revealing information about the target there's information leakage going on and that explains these amazing results and I know that's not the case so what do you mean by that? we ask for so many things we have printed templates that they use on all of their sessions and the same templates for all of their targets so they have to go through an itigram they target coordinates and then the itigram and that's very similar to the CRV process and then they have to do some basic decoding of those itigrams and to figure out if it's hard so my hard somersault whether it's mushy, natural man-made, energetics movement things like that, artificial and then they go into whether it's static or dynamic or whether it's complex or simple and let me just add again because I hate to kind of you're doing such an awesome job of giving us the kind of advanced thing but I want to make sure we don't leave people in the dust let me just recap and see if this jives so people know when you design a target your remote viewers they're not doing that target let's say it's the 9-11 event they have no knowledge whatsoever of the target that they're viewing whether it's the life of Jesus 9-11 or some future target on Mars they have no idea and then they receive a random number that they generate themselves so they're totally in the dark and they're independent, they don't talk with each other these remote viewers come in and they do their session someone else who's remote viewing it they have no idea what the target is and it's just like a get ready set go thing and then the next thing that you're adding to it is that rather than just say okay go on that number you say go on that random number that you took and now consider these points and that's why some people want to watch these videos it sometimes seems strange the way that they talk they say I see in they're talking about an explosion in another language and say I see an event that causes this because it's the old CRV thing they don't want to attach any kind of overlay on it so this is all such routine stuff for you and people who really know remote viewing but I want to make sure people understand that you're way past that and you're talking about the differences in the farsight way and the way that you do it is that you're structuring it a little bit more and you found that to be more effective and then you added the meditation part which is really interesting too sorry to interrupt, I just want to make sure people don't take some of these things the wrong way you see with remote viewing you have to get the information out really quickly like within three seconds or the conscious mind will take over so you have to have a constant flow of things to do it so the first thing is they draw a they write these random numbers they just don't mean anything they're just a distraction to the conscious mind so that immediately after the random numbers are written a spontaneous drawing can come out and then they probe that spontaneous drawing with their pen when they're probing it with their pen they're feeling it with their mind figuring out what it is and when they do that they have a list of things that they know they have to feel it to ask about if you just probe it you may get something, it may not get something but if you probe it and say is it hard, soft, semi-hard, semi-soft is it a structure and then with CRV the ideograms are really a very relatively small part of the actual process what they're trying to do with the ideograms is they're trying to go through the ideograms until they have some basic contact with the target so that they can get to something called stage 4 and once they're in stage 4 that they're in a matrix and they start going then they're sort of released and they go after stuff well we found that the ideograms are the most important part of the entire session so we don't want to go through them fast we want to go through them a lot so we have a 5 page single space set of things that they're supposed to ask about that they go through every time they do a session and every time they probe the ideogram they probe and they probe and they ask is it this, is it this and they're all low level pieces of information so it's nothing like is it the Eiffel Tower, no they're all things like is it a hard base surface or a wet base surface is there a structure on it is it metal, is it hard, does it sound like what are the sounds that are there and they have a huge number of 5 pages single space of stuff they're probing for and they go to that ideogram to do it they get a sketch plus they get something called a flash sketch which is a sketch that when they close their eyes they have a black board in front of them boom, there's an image that comes they don't try to understand it they just put it on the paper and then they probe that sketch and try to fill in that sketch then they probe for any activity and then they probe and then they have any pictures of sketches of that activity so that one ideogram leads to 5 pages of paper with CRV that one ideogram is over on a page in one page so after we and then we do that 3 times so you're talking 5 pages of paper times 3 you got 15 pages plus a ton of sketches so we don't even use that so called matrix for stage 4 what we do then is we have 5 pages with detailed information tons of stages, tons of pictures and then we do a map procedure where we have them go up some amount that they choose 1000 feet, 2000 feet they go at the level of whatever the ideogram was representing then at the top of it so if the ideogram was representing a building the first one would be right there at the building then they go up to the top of the building like a bird perched at the top of the building and then they go say at 2000 feet above it and look around and with each one of those things they're doing pictures and they're probing and figuring out what's going on then they go down to the base surface and then they go one mile in one direction one mile in another direction, one mile in four different directions so they find out what's around the thing and then they do another set of sketches okay so and all of these things are in the template it's actually printed out there's so many things they have to do you can't remember them all even if you done it a thousand times so there's a template asking you what to do so CRV uses blank pieces of paper but with us we ask so many things ask and you shall receive we made sure that they had all those things that they needed to do printed on a piece of paper so those are the big differences meditation and we use templates and we have them probe for specific items throughout the entire session and the process the template and the single page, five page list of things you're supposed to look for those are the same for all of their sessions when they're describing physical targets so that's terrific and for anyone who's really into RV protocol I mean that's just a treasure trove there and it's hard to not understand why other than your explanation people just stick with what they know why other people wouldn't have moved in these directions because it makes perfectly good sense and I think when we talk about your results you're going to prove that your results are pretty amazing using this expanded protocol yeah but you know we decided long ago that it's not worthwhile trying to convince anybody of anything just let people do whatever they want to do and that's fine and to get people to do what we wanted to do we found out that it was impossible to try to persuade them so that's why we went out and got people raw and just said okay we're going to teach you how to do this exactly the way we want you to do it and we're going to pay you let's talk a little bit about that let's just kind of lay it out there your current RVers who are featured most prominently in your most recent videos one they're all African American and people are like what's going on there two of them are these young very attractive looking women they're all very attractive well they're all very attractive and then you know you probe a little bit further and it's really interesting the one African American guy happens to be your son he's very good looking but he's your son and he lives in and the other two I just love the story behind that I mean it's not particularly politically correct but it's like hey you know I'm into acting I went and found people who are good actors I thought they needed to present I thought they needed to have other skills I wanted to give opportunities for particular groups of people African Americans less opportunity and I had a selfish reason in doing it is that because our culture is built in this way that gives them less opportunities more likely to retain them if I give them an opportunity and if they develop these skills in a way that I can utilize so correct me if I'm wrong but I love that explanation for why we see what we see there well let me just say really bluntly that race has absolutely zero impact on what we do meaning my son is out in Thailand right now trying to organize an Asian version of our site and we're going to be going also out to Africa to organize an African version of our site so race actually has has no bearing whatsoever and everybody on far side videos up until recently were white men so there was you know no one ever brought up the issue of race then so what what does matter to us is youth meaning we're trying to appeal to the younger demographic that has really been the last element in the society to be focused on the remote learning phenomena so we need to you know the the young shall inherit the earth so it's very important that we appeal to the younger demographic and we also want to work with people who are great on camera so models are particularly good or actors are particularly good for that and then we want to find out which people will stay with us and so race doesn't have any impact at all on that but I do ask what is the likelihood of the person actually wanting to continue with us to do this because there's only one real currency you can always earn more money but there's only one real currency that you can't earn back and that's years so if you train somebody for a year and then they go off to business school school or law school or go off to you know do crop circling or whatever then you've lost that entire year and it doesn't matter money is not the issue the issue is there's only a certain number of years you have to make a dent so you want to work with people who are going to stay with you so you want to have talented people so when I interviewed these people that are our current collection of remote viewers race was never an issue it was longevity how long are they going to stay with us whether they would be great on camera we have to teach them absolutely everything so it's not just a remote viewing we teach them all the presentational skills and everything and we are going to be going into making short skits like movies but like short ones that are like three to ten minutes long and then we're going to go into a longer series that are blending sort of fiction plots with real remote viewing content so imagine Star Trek but not totally fiction imagine Star Trek but half real and half fiction so that it's more entertaining to watch and it's real acting going on but at the same time you're always guessing is that the real part is that the fiction part so that's really the orientation that we have I think that's terrific and when I watch your videos I do feel like one you've just advanced the bar so far you're just to be congratulated you're way out there in the league totally of your own in terms of taking this information taking this technique whatever it is even though we don't completely understand it and kind of operationalizing it for the good for the common good of everyone to learn stuff rather than weaponizing it for evil you know I mean that's where you're at but I do feel sometimes a little bit frustrated with once I get past the reality of what you're doing that this guy really is following these protocols as you just described and he's compiling this awesome amount of information that we can't really dismiss any longer I want to go exactly where you're going which is like okay I get it it's real Courtney you're not faking it now show it to me in a way that I can really just kind of get it in a Netflix kind of story kind of way that's where we're going that's exactly where we are going that's exciting man we are working on that now we need a new facility we have two places that we do our work right now and we need a new facility that's a little bit that's considerably larger to be able to house more than one person at a time so if you look at all of our videos you'll always see that there's only one person on camera so we need to have a place that has more than one person on camera so working on getting such a facility with that and then it has to have large green screen capabilities as well so we're working on that and that will come about you'll also notice that we're adding new things each time so in the last time cross show you'll see that we had some short 30 second videos with a lot of stills blended together fancy editing introducing the viewers so it wasn't just pop they're there, there was a 30 second intro and so we're trying to add things that bring sort of the backgrounds of who they are to our shows and then we're also, we're going to be doing personal vlogs that will show up on our other YouTube channel Farsight Prime where the reviewers talk about their lives and what they do outside of Farsight and how that sort of blends with what they do in Farsight so you know that is a component of what we will do as well and then we will start doing these skits of these Netflix type of things that you're talking about and that will bring in a much larger audience because they're fun to watch not everybody likes to watch video presentations on a whiteboard some people can sort of think of that as like going to school and we have to vary what we do in the largest possible sense in order to gain the interest of people who would like to see this content but it has to be presented in a nice way so basically we threw out the rules that were originally developed for remote viewing as it came out of the military and we just invented the way we would want to do this in real terms and you're seeing it sort of maybe one fifth of the way through in terms of where we're actually going and so that's sort of exciting because you know now there's more stuff planned but the people that complain on our YouTube channel occasionally doesn't happen very often but it does where they say we should go back to this or go back to that that's not going to happen we're not going back anywhere we're marching forward doing new things having interesting things to say and presenting things in an interesting way there's also a fun factor and we're not going to continue doing this at all unless we're enjoying ourselves so having fun making these films is crucial we're not working for anybody we're working for ourselves remember we get the majority of our money from things that you don't even see so we're not working for anybody when we do these videos we're working for ourselves and we want to have fun when we do these things a lot of fun we want to have fun just like as if we were in Hollywood movies so we were in a TV series on, you know, some sci-fi channel or something like that so that's where we're headed and we work with people that are going to be with us long term because what we do with the training for remote doing alone basic takes nine months and they're here all the time working on that that's a lot of investment and then you have to train on presentational skills and that goes on for a long time as well it's a big thing and then we have to start training on acting we have to start training on everything we're even teaching our remote viewers some of our remote viewers don't know how to swim and we want to be able to do some video on photo shoots when they're swimming and so we're even training them on how to swim I mean it goes if it's fun we're going to try to do it and it will have a benefit for everybody because the video product will be better so rather than hire people for expensive fees that can do everything we work with you for a day or two and then ask for their money and then go we find people that want to stay with us for a long term and pay them and this is their job they don't get money from other things this is their primary means of employment so we have to pay them enough to stay and that's what we do and if we're not happy when we're doing it you would see bad stuff it just wouldn't be you'd see it on the video so if you see the videos being very aesthetic, interesting and engaging that's because they're having fun when they're doing all of this awesome Courtney where should we go next well let's see how about targets that's a good thing let's talk about targets then this is mind blowing this is where people usually start when they talk with you because it's the flashy stuff that blows people away hey you want to know what happened on the secret Apollo moon missions go watch a Farsight video you want to see what happened to Moses after Exodus go watch a Farsight video where these remote viewers have traveled back in time or forward in time and have told you and are going to tell you what happened so we've talked a lot about the protocol tell us about some of your favorite targets some of the most controversial targets that you've had and anything else that you might think about in terms of targets maybe these are your first how targets actually exist some people thought in the beginning they thought it existed because they wrote it on a piece of paper or because the computer picked it we did a ton of research to try to figure out what causes a remote viewer to focus on one thing and not something else and what we finally figured out which we're certain with this now is no ambiguity about it we will go to our grave saying this is it I don't care what anybody says the remote viewing target is dependent upon the thoughts that the person has who is analyzing data for the first time so let's say you do a session now and somebody a week from now is looking at that target and comparing your data to it on a computer screen they're looking at the target looking at your data and so on that's what creates the target there is a mental telepathic link kind of a retro causation kind of thing it's exactly right so there's a mental telepathic link because the person that's looking at the stuff that's the person that you're doing the session for so the intent is to satisfy the informational needs of that person so that person's looking at the target a picture of the target that is the thing that creates the focus that the remote viewer goes to the remote viewer is trying to satisfy that person's informational needs and so once you have that done it's like a laser pointer that focuses at that one thing so once we found out that we had tremendous control over the accuracy of the remote viewers once we realized how important that was then we could control it we understood then that we could get them to go to the right place at the right time every time we do a remote viewing session the desk is cleared we don't look at anything else we pick up the data we first pick up the pieces of paper we first look at the target and we look at the computer screen we get the touchy-feely idea of what it's like you sort of get it into your mind and when it's there and there's nothing else then you look at the data and it works like a charm if the remote viewing procedures are done correctly they snap onto that target like a rocket so once we did that we said well we now have a great flexibility to do these sessions economically meaning we can go after a lot of projects because our accuracy rate increased and when the accuracy rate increased we could have projects that come out every month and then every few months for big projects so we then went into a lot of things now some of the projects were done early on with remote viewers that are now doing other things we're still all friends we communicate together and so on but some of the early projects were done with Daz Smith out in Britain and they are two of the best remote viewers on the planet, they're really great they use different procedures, they do not use far-sight procedures but they're the best in their class and the procedures that they use and those are the people who did the 9-11 and the JFK ones and some of the other ones, Phoenix Lights Aliens on Iapetus, things like that so when we did the 9-11 one for example and even the JFK one I was the stupidest person ever I designed the targets written on a computer screen but they were supposed to see but they were supposed to write but they were supposed to perceive and I actually went and I write a very I write a very explicit description privately, this is you designing the target no one is going to see this no one ever sees no one ever sees the target until after all the sessions are done they're given to me, they're scanned in the video sessions are done there's no more remote learning work that needs to be done only then can the remote viewers see the target now, do you do any you are a meditator you really have been into TM for the longest time it's a big part of your daily practice your mind hack, consciousness hack is that a part of what you go into when you're designing the target visualizing the target, do you have anything more to add about the target creation process it is true that I do the TM City program the viewers do a different somewhat similar but different form of meditation we call it Farsight Meditation but every day I'm in meditation two and a half hours basically and I'm almost in that state all the time because you spend two and a half hours every day in that state it pretty much seeps into the rest of the day as well and if I'm upset for any reason I do not touch anything dealing with remote learning, if there's any distractions if there's some house repair that has to be done I don't do anything because that would become part of the target so whatever the thoughts are make sure that they're only thoughts relating to the target I've got a description of what they're supposed to be perceiving, it's very clear that it's very explicit for example it would be the 9-11 stuff it would be the 9-11 events for the twin towers that resulted in the collapse of the twin towers and so on and it would be a very explicit statement about the event the time the event to happen and so on and that's it but the remote viewers don't know that they just know that it's a project it's a target, that's it so they do that and in fact as Smith and Dick Elgeyer when they did the 9-11 stuff they had no communication between themselves until the very end and after all of the sessions were in they were going to have a conference call between the two of them to go over what the target was and it was in the conference call after all the sessions were done the video, paper, everything they had the meeting and they had an email then from me that they were allowed to open that I sent right before the conference and that was what it was now before the conference Dick Elgeyer he told me he couldn't sleep for two days he was sweating bullets because like what if it wasn't the 9-11 stuff he said this is like crazy this all I saw he said if he was wrong and the target was something else he was going to have to quit remote viewing it was crazy and apparently I was told that Smith had sweat beating up on his forehead when they were getting ready to open the email that told them the target meaning they didn't know and finally when they saw the 9-11 events was the 9-11 events it was like apparently a huge moment of release of relief when they did it that's the true of all of our stuff because no one really knows what the target is so it's all done and then you sort of wonder if you're going to if you're going to have to quit remote viewing for whatever and so they did that now the 9-11 events and the JFK were one of our premium projects that we sold on Vimeo for a number of years but we've gone to the point where we wanted some of those things to be out just for the historical preference so the 9-11 events and the JFK ones we finally put out for free on YouTube for people to watch we do not monetize them so we earn no money from that we stop earning money from it we sell the videos on Vimeo so but we thought I just felt it was necessary for the public record for the stuff to be out there for whatever for whatever reason just let it be and with the other ones most of the other ones we for our major projects we have a lot of free projects but we also have the premium projects and so a lot of those like War in Heaven and Moses Beyond Exodus those are for sale on Vimeo and they help when people buy those ones that really helps us to make the next one great Courtney where shall we go next? well you have ET on your screen you want to do that? sure you're the guy it's up to you we actually already covered money we covered targets, we covered the Farsight Way and a little bit of RV history so ET is a good way to round it up when people think of Farsight they often think of Extraterrestrial because we have done a number of Extraterrestrial-related UFO-related projects and that's sort of fun we're way beyond the point of wondering whether UFOs and aliens exist so since we've done so many targets so many projects with ET UFO content we just know that they exist so we just sort of say let's find out what they're doing what's the whole story behind them well you know that in itself is interesting again in light of the current you wanted to call it a wave of disclosure but inside the current wave of disclosure because you were out there and everyone else is catching up so before 10 years ago 20 years ago to talk about ET UFO as directly as you did just like this is a reality every day through the information we're getting back and to talk about it so matter of fact back then is astounding because to talk about it now isn't as astounding it's just much more mainstream so that's it but I wanted to really when I think of ET and I think about having the opportunity to talk to you Dr. Courtney Brown I jump to the kind of level 3 discussion which is what is ET's role in these extended consciousness realms what have you found is there a cosmic hierarchy ET's angels, demons, gods how does all this stuff fit together is there an agenda this is something you've talked about off and on bits and pieces but pull it all together are there multiple agendas as many people have speculated so beyond the reality of ET what's the inside story it's very simple it's the old biblical thing again as above so below there are so many groups and they do all the different stuff it's just like us down here and they all have their special interests their private interests they have groups that they group together it's just like we have united nations I mean it's they have as above so below and in terms of confusion just like there's confusion down below there's confusion up above so if you want to know what the ET's are like just look at the planet earth that's what they're like there's all types of groups and all types of things going on now they all have their own special interests there are some groups that want to just be altruistic and help humanity and so on like that other groups have their own special interests for themselves and that they're pursuing their own stuff what we found is that it's very difficult impossible it's just not worth it to try to convince everybody that there are ET's so what we found is that many groups even in the paranormal community they simply don't want to talk about extraterrestrials the way we talk about them and they want instead to hedge their discussions so that they sounds scientific so that they sound like they're making very marginal statements that are just a little bit off of what mainstream science says so they surround it with a lot of statistics they surround it with and mind you I don't mind statistics I teach statistics at the university that's what I do for a living it's not a mathematical model that's what I do for a living so I'm not opposed to math or statistics but there's a lot of people in the paranormal field who fill their discussions with very scientific sounding text that almost nobody reads and very large quantities of numbers and the contributions are marginal in my opinion so they are afraid of talking about just UFO's ET's extraterrestrials for example you can see a paper that's published in the journal that talks about the study of a UFO photograph and they look at the light as it was diffracted and the different angles under certain things they're examining the light could the light mean something this with way or that way and they look at the different lensing of the light for heaven's sakes it's a craft and like who's in the craft and like where's it going and what's happening and they're talking about the light this way and that way and at the end of the article you don't even realize that they're talking about a spaceship well I think we can take that one step further right into the ET realm you know and we've had a discussion more frequently on this show about the work of the free institute Ray Hernandez and that group who's gone out and did fortunately again I'm all for statistics, I'm all for the proper application of the scientific method and what Ray's group has done is first academic scientific study of ET contact experience and what falls out of that again is a lot of statistics 66% of people found the ET contact positive healings this number of percent you know da da da da but the reason I bring it up is for your point again I think we can even get lost in those statistics he's done an important job in moving us away from the evil alien thing but what is the real story behind the numbers and what I've been interested in doing is juxtaposing that with a similar set of numbers and data we get back from the near death experience phenomenon and that's that you know what are those what do those numbers look like and all that I want to roll that all into one big question because the question I've been asking people lately and it's kind of tongue in cheek but not really is does ET have a near death experience does ET have a life review and see the being of God in the hierarchy of the supreme consciousness as above so below is there is there something is there a hierarchical structure beyond the planetary kind of UN council is there a spiritual hierarchical structure to the world realm that ET is in well actually I'm aware of that actually is a big book now that research that you just referred to and that's a little different because they're talking about experience people who have reported that they have gone through an abduction experience or a contact experience in there and they're talking about statistics related to how those people experience that and that's different from what I was talking about that's actually a very useful application of statistics and that research is actually very interesting but the other people that are doing stuff on a sort of a oh a marginal level that's heavily couched in scientific language jargon and numbers their stuff is very important and very interesting but it's limited in its scope and they are very I hate to say it but they're very much afraid in my view to publish anything that's really sort of further beyond that type of framework that they work within for fear that they mainstream that they'll be giving up their chance for the mainstream scientific community to accept them so my view is that the mainstream scientific community isn't worth fighting for in the first place and the mainstream scientific community is not going to accept is not going to accept them no matter how how they write their papers and how they couch their data in statistics sometimes an article comes out Daryl Ben for example has done some really amazing stuff and he's got his article sometimes published in very mainstream psychology journals which is very surprising very interesting and he's sort of an exception that he's got some stuff that's really out there but it is very interesting at the same time Dean Raiden has also done some really interesting stuff that's got published in good venues but the bulk of the stuff is out there has a very marginal scope it doesn't go beyond the boundaries and so I'm not criticizing it I'm really not criticizing it I'm really glad it's there if it wasn't there someone would have to do it it's just it's not what we want to do we don't want to live within those boundaries we want to find out about your questions so those people tend to minimize our contribution although we do not minimize their contribution it's actually necessary to do it's just not the way we want to do it if remote viewing actually works for heaven's sakes pay people to learn it train them for years and years get them to be good at it and then look to see what they find out and then put the projects up and then build a video library with those projects and then builds Netflix type things that sort of bring it to life and let it just change the consciousness of the planet just by its existence so that has a role too in what it is so it's not that the people who couch their stuff in limited scope but very scientific wording is got a problem they don't have a problem they just have borders around what they do and that's okay that's good it's not necessarily okay and I understand the distinction it's okay because it's the way they want to make their contribution it's just not good enough for what the planet needs right now the planet needs a wider spectrum of stuff so we have a different approach to it and they have their own approach to it in combination it will work out fine do you have a different approach to it amen to that and fantastic so glad as you just summarized that you're out there doing it if we had our approach only and they didn't exist that would be a problem I get what you're saying but we have to factor into that the angle that not all of that is what we see some of those shenanigans that materialistic consciousness is an illusion this can't possibly be as a social engineering project too right because your whole history of remote viewing suggests that or the history of remote viewing suggests that hey people in the government whatever that means government they knew that these extended consciousness realms existed 50 years ago so they let academia kind of putter along and spit out this nonsense is that there's no such thing as consciousness and don't look there and ESP is a joke ha ha ha you know in the agents that's not really happening all that so they perpetuated that and we can say oh well gosh darn they were just so dumb and stupid or we can say they were propped up to kind of tell a particular story in the same way that disclosure 50 years ago was not what it is today and it was a different message about oh anyone who says that is tinfoil haddish and stuff like that so when we see how the message changes we can say oh gosh we're the ones out there who made it happen or we can say this is all part of the social engineering project so what I was really doing was jumping two steps beyond that great so there's mainstream academia and they let Daryl Bem get out there and do a couple papers but we've reviewed that extensively on this show and that the blowback from Daryl Bem was also you know something that most people can't endure either so the message is sent you don't really want to go there if you're an academic but I do have to kind of push back on one thing is that Ray Hernandez love good friend of the show support him support his work financially the best I can but he's running into the same traps here when you start publishing you know these large surveys just like they've done an NDE and say 66% of people say this about contact experience therefore we can conclude that ET is this no I don't agree I agree with what you said which is as above so below we have to look at this from a much more broader spiritual perspective we have to look at the yogis we have to one understand that we don't understand anything outside of this time space reality and we're just trying to probe around and admit the limits of our knowledge so I think there's a lot there that that we still need to learn I know you don't disagree with that but I do want to bring it back around if you want to comment any that you could but I want to bring it back to this question of the larger spiritual aspect to this and not as a spiritual kind of practitioner but as a kind of spiritual scientist if you will is there a spiritual hierarchy that is outside of the materialistic hierarchy so in this country we have a hierarchy that we can all see and we have an economic hierarchy and the billionaires and the one percenters and people above that but then when we move over to the spiritual realm we say well that doesn't really even matter they're playing a different game and whatever spiritual truth there is isn't interested in that game and there are the endy ears when people have a near-death experience then they're woken up to this other reality where all that stuff doesn't matter so the question is where is ET on these materialistic consciousness hierarchy versus spiritual yogic Jesus hierarchy well my personal view on that after doing all the studies that we've done and marching forward into the future with new studies is that there is no such thing as a spiritual anything there's just life and there's physics for why we can't see certain life and why we can see other life but since the remote viewing phenomenon works and you can perceive across time and space and with apparently no time or limitations in distance obviously our consciousness extends beyond the physical body so one thing we're absolutely certain about is that the physical body is just a thing it's just a physical thing it's like a car and it's okay to buff it up put makeup on it's okay to do whatever you want with it work out fill up the muscles you're just messing with a car it's like taking your car and getting a new paint job so it's just a thing and you have to have that thing in order to operate in this realm just like you have to have a car in order to drive on the road so when people die they pop out of the body and then they are the way they were before they had the body and they see different things because of the physics of the nature of what it of that side of things but to say something like there's a spiritual thing that's sort of putting a woo woo factor on just some aspect of life there's physics involved and why we have our physical stuff and there's physics involved and why we have our non-physical stuff each of these have the ability to travel and blink in and out of what we call our physical melody in the sense of you see a ship it'll be flying through the atmosphere at great speed and then suddenly it's off radar and no one can see it blink it's gone and then it appears 20 miles down and suddenly reappears so what they do when they do that just like you pop out of your body and you can't see the physical person can't see the non-physical person anymore they have technology that well I don't want to get too much into the physics but technology that sort of changes the vibration of the ship surrounds it with a quantum signature that's a bit different from what it was before and suddenly we can't see it anymore and radar won't pick it up anymore the physical reflections of light doesn't happen so we can't see it anymore and they have technology that they can still see us so when you talk about the spiritual realm you're really just talking about beings or people or subjects or whatever and when you talk about religions what you're talking about is stuff that's happened with beings people, subjects, things that have evolved into being religious constructs that we have today but there's nothing but people subjects and everything so what you have is when you have Moses beyond Exodus and amazing things seem to happen well some group made those amazing things happen and humans had to compartmentalize it to make it sort of understandable so God did it and there's just beings out there and they have stuff that they do and some of them like to get involved with us and they think if they tweak us this way or tweak us that way the civilization will evolve in a better way this way or that way and we put names on those beings and say this is a God that is so and so that's what there is hold on because there's so much to process there and this is right in my swing zone so I guess the first question I'd ask is the question I ask all skeptics and atheists is that is there any meaning to any of this is there any meaning to the universe yeah one thing I've concluded for certain is that there is a larger being that some people may want to call God that there is something a larger being you might want to call it a different name some people call it all that is meaning it's whatever it is it's everything that exists and there is no such thing as a God that's separate from you what basically is everything that exists in the universe from a rock to a computer monitor to a person to an inchworm everything is alive absolutely everything it's nothing that's not alive it's all the same phenomenon of waveforms that interact and these waveforms produce amalgams of things that sort of congeal together that we see as people and subjects and things okay there is a God let me explain is there a moral imperative is there a right and wrong we don't know what we do know is that there is no such thing as matter and there is probably no such thing as distance that goes against mainstream physics but physicists have never ever ever found anything solid if you look at your desk you say that's solid my body looks solid but it's not it's just empty space and molecules you go into the molecules it's empty space and atoms you go into the atoms you get empty space and subatomic particles you go into the subatomic particles you get empty space and it goes down the rabbit hole they've never found anything that's a solid thing they just find energy and these particles and the particles are energy manifestations they come out of wave packets it's the complicated physics stuff there's nothing in the entire universe except energy E equals MC squared energy equals a scalar multiple of mass mass and energy are the same they're just different versions of the same thing so what we have about the entire universe is energy and that includes us and what you might want to call our souls there's nothing existing anywhere in our universe that isn't energy and so what happens is you can say well then if energy is everything then we're thinking and everything's sort of coming out of energy so it turns out that in fact there is such a thing as a larger being that's composed of all of this energy and this larger being from the best we can figure it out I'm speculating but from the best that we can figure out this larger being wanted to know what it felt like to be us it wanted to know what it felt like to live almost an infinite variety of different experiences and so it broke itself up into little pieces and the pieces interact Alex and Courtney and they're called other things and they're called Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump and it goes on and on and on and so these pieces interact among themselves so is there a God well there is a larger being that's alive because we're alive is there a being beyond the larger being if you say Courtney is it possible to speak to God I'd say absolutely I'm doing that right now Alex it's you and you're talking to me we're all part of that larger thing and so everything that's inanimate like a chair or something like that is also part of that same energy and on some level that we don't understand everything somehow exists as a living thing and I don't know how a don't ask me to explain the consciousness of a desk I mean I don't know I don't understand all of that but it's all part of the same thing and so what we have here is a larger being that we can call is another real question is what is the game plan for this all that is? That's one of the questions but I want to keep I want to keep bringing you back you're the science guy you love science I love science we just haven't been allowed to probe science because they keep us spinning on all this stupid stuff that is pseudoscience so I take the over 200 peer-reviewed studies and then Dear Death Experience science as being significant and important just like I take the contact experience science and the work that they've done as important and I try and merge the true and understand the two and I guess I just can't step past all that near-death experience science one because we understand the physiology there of particularly people who've had a cardiac arrest and then have a near-death experience so their heart is stopped which means that the brain is not functioning in the way that would normally produce consciousness and yet they're having these experiences in the extended consciousness realm now for you you might say no big deal we've probed the extended consciousness realms without the brain without body we get that that exists but I take that and say okay then what do we understand about the content of those experiences and what they're telling us consistently over and over again and I interviewed Dr. Jeff Long radiation oncologist compiled the largest database over 3,000 near-death experiences wrote a New York Times best-selling book and he says Alex they're talking about God and he goes this is underreported because people don't want to deal with it or can't deal with it or it doesn't fit into their paradigm or like you said it's not academically acceptable but this is the overwhelming experience people have more than saying the tunnel or more than saying you know all these other things it's God it's the experience of a higher being that they understand and associate and understand in this kind of I understand everything so in these realms then it's like boom download information I know everything I know there's a God I know there's a hierarchy of beings I know there are great beings which you talk about in some of your videos great beings the yogis the masters the mystics the christian mystics or whatever religion these are great beings that seem to be on some kind of spiritual hierarchy they always talk about a moral imperative there is a right and wrong you will judge yourself based on your deeds and you will know as you know down here you know what's right and wrong and up there you will know what's right and wrong and this is not a religious kind of thing because there's not some big mean God on a cloud who's judging you it is a soul journey you judging yourself kind of stuff but this data to me and I call it data because that's what it is it seems to be an inescapable part of what we're talking about so I gotta push you there the blob of consciousness thing it's all just life I think we know more than that at this point but I'm not sure you quite agree with me well it's a good point to wrap up the interview with because it tells you where we don't know things so Alex let me end the interview by saying we don't know the answers to that and that there are other people that have their views of what they think is going on and they may be right and they may be wrong but we're going to plead on plotting along with what we do at farsight until we fill in as many of the blanks as possible but the questions that you just asked are the ultimate questions so in terms of my own interest I'm sort of wondering why this being that's all it is broke itself up into pieces and like what is the game plan what is the ultimate thing and I'm interested if that being ever found another being like itself and I'm interested in knowing if it broke itself up into pieces because it experienced pain I mean we just don't know the answers to these things and the answers to the questions that you just raised are just as interesting and that's why it's so interesting to have so many people raise these questions and write these valuable books about this subject we don't know and there's more that we don't know than we do know awesome well again folks our guest has been doctor Courtney Brown you'll find his just incredible work at the farsight institute please do watch his videos so many of them are now available for free that he used to sell by the ones that he sells as well because as he said it's not the major part of his income but it does help if you're interested in the protocol in the science of this pick up his book remote viewing the science theory of non-physical perception it'll answer a lot of those kind of background questions doctor Brown it has been an absolute delight having you on and I appreciate you willing to go for all these different areas that we took you in best of luck with all your work and thanks again so much for joining me Alex it's been a great pleasure is a very interesting interview and I had fun I had fun doing it when I was saying the website for those who want to know is farsight ht.org or g Alex have been great thanks so much thanks again to Courtney Brown for joining me today on skeptical I guess I tee up one question from this interview and it's really the only question do you think remote viewing is real I mean all the best evidence we have suggest that it is every way we've looked at it you can go look at the science suggest that something is happening but it's just hard to fully embrace that we can really look into the past let alone look into the future which really seems strange to me I think there's something there I'm just not always 100% sure of the information we're getting back and the filters that are being applied and the overlays that are being applied not consciously but just I just have my questions how about you what do you think love to hear your thoughts comment here if you're on YouTube jump over to the skeptical form or I like to hang out and talk to people but let me know your thoughts let me know if you enjoyed the show who you'd like to see on the show be warned that I'll probably ask you to invite that person on the show but that not withstanding please do connect interact I always say that I just love to hear from people and hear what you think of this little skeptical journey that I'm on be sure to check out the website skeptical.com I have over 400 interviews there are a lot more than in it than on YouTube I'm just kind of new to YouTube but I'd like to get more involved with YouTube like to connect with more people on YouTube so that's definitely out there if you have any suggestions or ideas do let me know many interviews coming up stick around for all of that until next time take care and bye for now