 Good afternoon, or good morning, depending on where you are located. I'd like to welcome you to our CCC OER webinar on faculty and librarians selecting high quality OER. My name is Regina Gong. I'm a librarian and OER project manager here at Lansing Community College in Michigan. You are used to Una, Una Daily moderating our CCC OER webinar. For today, I will be your moderator while Una is with us joining us in this webinar. We're going to give her a break. So welcome again. We have three of my colleagues here in Michigan as our presenters and you will be hearing from them in a little bit. And it's really nice to see a lot of folks introducing themselves in the chat window. So if you haven't introduced yourselves, please feel free to introduce yourselves. I am just going to advance to the next slide. Okay. So I just want to briefly go over our agenda for today. We'll have introductions later. And then I'll do overview of what we do here at CCC OER. And then I will also briefly discuss about our statewide OER project here in Michigan through the Michigan colleges online. And then we'll jump right into the presentation with Tina Allrich and Elizabeth Sonnebin from Northwestern Michigan College. And then with Dr. Sharon Hughes from LCC. So let's go ahead and meet our presenters. Sharon, would you like to start and introduce yourself? Hi, my name is Sharon Hughes. I'm a professor of psychology at Lansing Community College and starting my 19th year there. Thanks. Thanks, Sharon. This is Sharon's first time to present for a CCC OER webinar. Elizabeth, would you like to introduce yourself? Sure. I'm Elizabeth Sonnebin. I'm adjunct faculty at Northwestern Michigan College, teaching, marketing, advertising and professional communications. Thank you, Elizabeth. And last but not the least, Tina. Hi, I'm Tina Allrich and I'm the library director at Northwestern Michigan College. And I'm especially excited today to be here because these webinars with CCC OER and Una Daily is totally what got us started on OER. So it's really cool to be here presenting. Thank you, Una. Thank you, Tina. Sorry. Una, we really miss you here. So for the CCC OER mission, our mission is actually we are dedicated to promoting the adoption and development of OER to enhance teaching and learning. Most of you attend our webinar and really get a lot out of it. You see in our new logo here that CCC OER is actually celebrating its 10th anniversary this year. And we'll talk more about that later in the webinar. So we have members in 25 U.S. states, including British Columbia. We also have eight statewide consortiums. And as you know, even if you are not a member of CCC OER, all our webinars are open to all and we welcome you. So talking about CCC OER members here in Michigan, we have three community colleges that are institutional members of CCC OER. And we have one associate member, which is the Michigan Colleges Online. And I just want to briefly highlight that here in Michigan, we have an OER initiative that involves all 28 community colleges in the state. And it is called the MCO OER initiative. Our goal is to improve student success, lower costs for students, and increase inter-institutional faculty collaboration. We actually have a steering committee that is represented by all the 28 community colleges in Michigan. We meet every six to eight weeks and we have lots of activities that support our initiative goals. In fact, we just finished a very successful MCO OER summit last Friday where we had Dr. Robin DeRosa as one of our keynote speaker. And what we do here for community colleges in Michigan is that we have a repository which is hosted by OER Commons. And you can see the link up in the top. MCO is actually a hub within OER Commons. We also have grants for faculty to adopt and accelerate OER adoption in their colleges. Like I mentioned, we provide training and professional development to faculty librarians, instructional designers, and basically we are a statewide community of practice. So we have, as of fall, 14 colleges who are reporting because they have their own initiative, OER initiative in their colleges. And we just 14 colleges reporting, we have realized savings of over $3.1 million. So really this is, you know, very good for the state of Michigan in terms of OER adoption. So now let's go right into the presentation from Northwestern Michigan College. Tina and Elizabeth. I'm going to share how librarians can help and we're also going to, Elizabeth is going to share with you about how she set up her OER class. So go ahead, Elizabeth. If it will love me, I will. Let's see. Okay, so Northwestern Michigan College is a community college. We are in Traverse City, Michigan, and we serve a large about 3200 FTE. We help faculty find and choose OER and using OER courses. What's this got to do with you who, oh, sorry, is audio cutting out. How are we doing? Can we hear, can you hear me? Okay. So the why, why is OER part of the Liberation? Well, we're committed to access for one thing. Librarians are all about getting information to people who need it. And that's always what we've done. We know how to share. And we're familiar with the publishing industry, and we under copyright and we know it's pitfalls. Okay, well, there we go. We have, whoops, whoops. We had experience in. Is it too long? I'm sorry, I can't. Elizabeth, just leave that slide there. That'll be fine. I'll finish up the other slide. We have experience working with the content of college coursework. So some subject specialists even have second master's degrees. We both work closely. We work closely with faculty and students. We know how to find things and we know how to make sure other people can find things too. So what can librarians do to help faculty? Well, we can help identify the existing OER textbooks. We can search the repositories for you. Like, actual vetting of supplementary materials. We can use our advanced search skills and experience to find exactly what you need. So for example, you might say to your librarian, I need a short video on how cells divide. And your librarian can go find you several open available, really available videos that would suit your needs and you could choose. We can also give you options for access and curation. Do you want to use the LMS? Do you want to use a LibGuy to present your material to your students? Where can you archive it? Can you make sure that the things that you're using are stable and will be available in the future? We can advise on issues to copyright and fair use on the use of Creative Commons licenses. And we can also help articulate the principles, the guiding principles of the OER movement. So what can librarians, what can't we do? Well, not be completely knowledgeable in your subject area. Librarians, the saying goes that a librarian's knowledge is a mile wide and an inch deep. So we're not going to know everything about your subject area. We can make the final call on the quality of a resource. You're going to have to do that. We can't choose your textbook for you. We cannot choose your pedagogical approach. And we would never interfere with your academic freedom. Okay, so the NMC librarians have helped many faculty adopt OER. And each faculty member is different. Each class is different. So I'm just going to give you a few examples of that. We had an abnormal psychology professor who wanted to use OER. And so he had an idea that he wanted his students to have a choice of using text materials that they could read, video materials and audio materials. So can you advance this? There we go. Okay, so we made him a live guide and I assigned two librarians to find these materials for him. We used a lot of NOBA. We used a fear number of government documents. And we used some of the library subscription films on demand to make this live guide. The World Cultures class, the instructor was using Gardner's Art, Art of Western, I don't know which one, there are several of them, but it cost over $100. And he wasn't really using it all that much. So it was fairly easy to go out and find OER for this. Next slide. We ended up using a lot of the boundless art history. And so I could save a PDF of a particular chapter and put it in these boxes on his live guide. We used a World History book from University of Georgia. And we supplemented with some Smithsonian materials and other freely available materials. This is an instructor who required a fair amount of help on this. So I did a lot of the work on this one. This class actually hasn't taken place yet, but this is an example of instructors who aren't going to need a lot of help probably. I'm using two instructors who are going to be teaching technical writing next semester. And so all I did was I did an exhaustive search of the OER repositories and found all of the technical writing OER textbooks. And I put them in a little box on the live guide. There they are. And so these instructors will take a look at these, maybe cut and paste a little bit. Let's skip this one, Elizabeth, in the next. Okay. Okay. And US History, this instructor got a grant from MCO, the one that Regina mentioned. And she is taking the OpenStacks history book and adding materials so that there's more Native American materials in it. And that one has been challenging. I'm going to be looking at different platforms for that. This one was an introduction to college reading and writing. So it's a developmental English class. It was using a $120 textbook that just kept putting out new editions and going up and up. And the instructors were not comfortable with this. We took the different subjects that they taught. And we found like either chapters from an OER textbook or other things. I put them into a spreadsheet, which is on the next slide. And all of these examples are just screenshots, but the links to the actual examples are going to be in the slides. You can go back and look at them if you want to. So we created a spreadsheet with the topics covered in the class. And then I checked the licenses on the materials and made sure that they would have to, which ones they would have to just link to, which ones had CC licenses, which ones that if they really wanted to use them, they would need to ask permission. And lastly, principles of advertising. And this sigs nicely into Elizabeth's portion of the presentation. Okay. So sometimes when I click it goes to the next slide and sometimes it doesn't so bear with me. But I teach principles of advertising, as Tina said. And this is a live guide. She helped me work on and create that gives my students different resources for the class for an assignment and examples of advertising as well. So I chose to use OER for several reasons. First one being I have a college student too. So I know what that book bill is like at the beginning of a semester. The semester went for my niece. It wasn't too bad. But last semester it was like $400. The other thing I really felt about using OER was I'm in an industry where you can learn a lot just by doing research yourself. And I felt like using OER resources would teach the students how to learn. My field also changes rapidly. So I, and it's just going forward without me. Sorry about that. It's going backwards. Try this again. So an advertising textbook especially is pretty much out of date the minute of prints. With social media and all of the technology coming into play and all the digital stuff coming into the world. You can't keep a marketing or an advertising check textbook up to date. Once it's printed. And then I also like my online classes to be fully online. So that they can be taken anywhere from anywhere that a student can connect from. I've actually had students in the Coast Guard and they've taken the class from the ship. So they've not even been on land when they were taking the class. So that definitely is an advantage of using materials that I'll say need as an internet support. I managed to switch through a pilot program with a librarian support Tina support and educational media technology support as well. I research free textbooks and resources. Tina showed me a lot of I knew some but Tina showed me a lot that I had never seen before that were great resources for assignments and articles and videos and all of that stuff. I also use the school's access to trade publications because you know everything's changing so fast in this industry that trade publications are one of the best ways to stay up to date. I added in a lot of video resources on some that's free on the web. Some stuff from PBS and they're learning media section and videos from our library. And then I also found sites where instructors share lessons. That was a big help to that's something I started when I first started teaching and it's always been really super helpful. I'm using a lip guide so this offers me a way to offer the resources a textbook textbook would traditionally offer. I'm linking the things like you know the Super Bowl ads from every year and different print ads and award winning ads that have been out there and resources for researching for the assignments. I also use some professional resources from professional organizations so as a member of like the American Advertising Federation and American Marketing Association. They have classroom resources for instructors that are free to use if you're a member and they're a great resource. One of the pros of using OER for me is that I can use this online textbook to provide basic concepts while I can pull from non-traditional resources. So I use things like Google's AdWords class that's free online for anybody who wants to learn how to use Google AdWords rather than giving them a lesson in digital advertising that's going to change the minute I write it by using their materials. I'm keeping the students up to date and they come out of the class knowing what's the latest and the greatest in that field. Obviously a pro is saving a money when I was looking I was going to have to replace a textbook regardless. So you know I looked at the prices of the textbooks and thought man I really don't want to do that to students there's not going to be used version and that's going to be a lot of money to show out. I'd also kind of forced me out of the box I had to come up with lesson plans that were different. My marketing class which is still a traditional text is very much case study discussion case study discussion. This I was able to do some stuff to adapt to different learning styles to sort of offer that same thing that the psychology professor does where you can do a read you or listen. I try to do that every week. I'm going to try to pull in some fun stuff so I'll link them to you know John Oliver's rant on native advertising, but I'll also link them to the PBS discussion round table on native ads. And you know they're two very different approaches to it, but they give students two different views. As far as cons I really don't have a lot of cons to using it. I think most of them can be easily overcome especially when you reach out to you know librarians and media technology and people that have done it before. You usually can find a solution. You do have to keep your resources and links up to date because I'm going to feel that changes a lot and because I'm linking students to samples of like Super Bowl ads and stuff like that. I have to update that pretty much every semester and then have to double check it usually a week or two before the assignment. Some students are more comfortable with the textbook. For those students I've offered them ways to either buy it or get it printed so that they have a paper version in front of them. And then free textbooks often lack assignments in case studies that's one of the reasons my marketing class hasn't converted yet is because in order to convert the class we've got to rewrite all of the assignments. There's a great book, but it doesn't have great assignments. So as far as what I would do differently my homework assignments are still really writing heavy and I kind of feel like in a class with the creative topic that I could expand on that more so I'm working on that. I'd write more content myself the book I found is pretty good. But it doesn't address some of the newer concepts and, you know, changes that the industry has had in the last few years. And I'd also use more industry articles and I do, you know, just try to keep them constantly reading up to date information on the topic. Okay. And Tina, if you have any questions for the two of our speakers, you may just type it in the chat box and we'll try to address them later on in the presentation. So Sharon. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay, I am just approving it. Okay. Hopefully you can advance now. I'm not letting me. So I'm a psychology professor at Lansing Community College, which is located in downtown Lansing founded in 1957. It's the third largest community college in Michigan. And we serve students in both credit and non credit courses. We offer more than 230 associate degree and certificate programs. We have a college encompassing a service area of six counties and have about 26,000 students a year, although it's down a little bit this fall. The college, LCC was the first college to offer online degree programs, and we now have more than 250 courses online and 26 associate degrees and certificates that can be earned through online study. Psychology program is one of the largest programs on campus. We have a variety of courses 12 courses in a variety of formats face to face online hybrid. All the times 810 to 1010 or 8am to 10pm Monday through Saturday in all, all our locations we have 12345 locations we also offer sections at three area high schools for advanced high school students. Psychology 200 is psychology 200 is the largest course on campus of the largest course we offer its most popular one of the most popular courses on campus. And we routinely over enroll over 2000 students a year. And this semester we have 35 sections of intro 1028 students enrolled. What we've done in the past is we have about 23 different faculty who teach intro to psych, and we had, we had five different textbooks that faculty could choose from. But we were running into problems with having a choice having that different choice. Some difficulties when sections got switched faculty wouldn't be able to use their own textbook they had to use the textbook that was assigned to that section and that was becoming very problematic. And also the textbook that one of the textbook that we were using was going to a new edition, it was going to cost close to 600 or close to $200. The bookstore wasn't able to order the older editions we have in the past tried to keep costs down for students by using older editions but the bookstore wasn't able to do that anymore. So, for all these reasons we decided it was time for a change. And since we were up since we were changing anyway and going to a common textbook. We decided to switch to an OER. I'm not able to advance the slide. There we go. So we decided to switch to an OER. And it just so happened. Do you want me to advance? Okay. Yep. I don't know what's I can't control it anymore. So at that time, we were decided to go with a common textbook Regina brought me a copy of the open stacks textbook and thought that it might be a good choice. So, it was our first introduction kind of to an OER. So, we found actually a few resources out there. Open stacks being one a couple of other traditional textbooks. The NOBA project. So there's actually quite a few out there somewhere more collections of articles more modular or resources for faculty can pick and choose the material. And that's, that's good we like to be able to pick and choose but given the fact that we have 27 different faculty. Many are adjuncts. A lot of them were teaching for their first time. We really didn't want to put the burden of developing their own materials on to faculty are already underpaid and overwork. So we thought a traditional type textbook would work best for us. So we found several that fit that criteria. Could you advance the slide please. And what we did next was as a, as a group, the psychology program developed a rubric which looked at when we thought of all the things that we wanted our textbook to have did it meet our learning outcomes. Is it available in a variety of formats, ancillary materials, student support, formative assessments. Does it have the classic studies all that stuff. So we developed the rubric. And then we asked for volunteers psychology volunteers and each volunteer was given two or three chapter or topic areas their area of expertise and each volunteer reviewed the same chapter or topic areas for all five OERs that we were reviewing. And we had two reviewers for each chapter or topic area. I tallied up the results and we had a meeting to discuss it and the consensus was to go with the open stacks textbook. Students can get a traditional hard copy if they want your Amazon for 3650 I think we also here on campus printed it out and put it in three ring binders for students to purchase for $24 and some of them did take advantage of that. So some of the things some of the challenges that we had we're changing changing in general, a lot of work to rework classroom materials assignments exams. So that was that is challenging in general. Some faculty actually weren't enthusiastic. Maybe due to inertia they've been using the same textbook for 20 years concerns about the quality. Some actually were concerned that students might not think the quality of a free textbook is very good so they might not value it very much. Another thing which was difficult about the switch was hard copies for faculty are every single faculty member wanted a hard copy they didn't want to read it online. So usually the publisher gives us hard copies of their textbook but open stacks wasn't able to do that. But fortunately our associate dean stepped in and agreed to purchase hard copies for all faculty so that that was very helpful. At the end of the semester we evaluated both students perceptions and faculty perceptions and faculty's perceptions of impact on their teaching pretty neutral to positive. The most positive thing was it allowed them to better accommodate diverse student needs because as I said the textbook was one of the textbooks was over $200. Faculty were not as enthusiastic about the quality of the OER the quality of the textbooks although students were more than happy with the quality of the textbook so that was us perhaps. And the ancillary materials also didn't seem to be as positive and as the the ones we purchase students, however, they were very enthusiastic about the use of OER's. Before I get there, the one of the challenges that of using an OER that faculty were most concerned with was finding high quality resources up to date resources having the time to look for them. And the time and the compensation to evaluate them was kind of the consensus there and this is where librarians and Regina in particular on our campus is playing a pivotal role. She's great about finding resources, curating them, letting us know what's out there, pushing faculty to think outside the box and adopt OER's, look for OER's and adopt OER's. And our college as a whole, our college administration has also very much committed to this and I think Regina is going to talk about that a little bit later about what the president's doing to help faculty adopt OER's. So in terms of students, six students perceptions, like we, like I said, while faculty were concerned about the quality, students thought it was the same or even better. Only 4% thought that it was worse than textbooks in their other classes. So students were very happy with it. 84% said they'd be likely or very likely to enroll in a course that used an OER, probably because 75% reported spending no money for the class materials. And again, others printed it off for as little as $24. So there is that hard copy available for those students. We also had open ended questions on our evaluation and students, students really like it. They really like the use of OER's. Everybody has access at levels of playing field. I've always been bitter about buying a textbook where I read two or three pages. And $150 for one textbook for one class is a lot of students just can't afford it. A lot of them just don't buy the textbook. So free textbooks are really helping as well. So overall, the total textbook savings for our students in since fall 2015 to fall 2017 is over a million dollars. As of fall 2017 this fall we have 74 faculty using OER's in 27 courses representing 150 sections. So we've got a lot of faculty are on board. And what's happening on our college at the college level is the president has designated $500,000 to help faculty give them those resources, give them the time to research and adopt OER. So this is a wonderful thing that the president's done. So it's going to give faculty some time some money to go out and look for good resources with the help of Regina and hopefully find some OER's that are appropriate for their courses. We are working in psychology towards a Z degree where students can get an associate's degree in psychology without having to purchase a textbook. So far we're starting with the courses, our psychology courses and the five that are required for the degree. And right now four out of five are now using OER's. The fifth one abnormal psychology we're still looking to find one for that. So hopefully within the next few years in psychology students will be able to get a psychology degree. Yeah, and thank you Sharon. And in addition to that, for our broad ahead, I was fortunate to be chosen as one of the open education research fellows for 2017-2018. And part of the work that we're going to do is to assess the efficacy of OER adoption using the COOP framework, which is cost outcome usage and perception. And based from the preliminary data that I have, I see that the grades of our students who are taking OER in their courses are the same or better. As you know, if you compare them with the class that uses a traditional textbook prior to the move. So it really is very gratifying to see that it is affecting student success. And of course, one of the things that we want to do too is to make it easy for our students to discover these classes when they do register. So perhaps we'll be having that OER designation in our student registration system. We're working with our IT folks to be able to do that. Okay, so I see there's really a good discussion with, you know, providing OER in a live guide environment versus an alumnus. I see a lot of discussions in the chat box, keep it going. So just to, you know, give you a heads up of our upcoming conferences where CCCOER will be there. Open Ed 2017 is coming up. It will be at Anaheim October 11 to 13. I'll be there and I hope to see a lot of you there. It's, you know, it's the ultimate open ed gathering of all open education practitioners. So I hope someday, you know, you can come if not in this year's conference. And also because CCCOER is part of the Open Education Consortium, we have the OER Global 2018. I believe that would be in April. Proposals are still being accepted and it will be due October 23. And if you go to the CCCOER.org website, there's a tab there that says Get Involved. You'll see a lot of those events listed. And of course, stay in touch through our community email. The link is here. You know, sign up. I think as of now we have about 600 people in our CCCOER listserv. It really is very helpful, especially if you are just starting with your OER project in your colleges. And our next webinar will be on October 25. That will be coinciding with the celebration of Open Access Week. We will have a series called Open in order to share and how open access repository support institutional OER adoption. And if you want to contact any of us, our email is here and you can also follow us via Twitter. If you have any questions, you can ask them now. Okay, let me just take a look at. Okay, Serge is asking, has anyone else experienced a delay in gaining access to the CCCOER listserv? Regina, this is Una. I'll take that one. Okay. This is Una. I do have one of my executive board managers that listserv. And so if you've experienced a delay, you can contact us directly. However, what really helps us to get people on the list quickly is if you apply with your college email address. So if you apply with a Gmail address and with, we don't really know who you are and because this is a community of practice reserved for educators, we really want to make sure that this is about education and it doesn't become a sales channel. So if you can apply with your college email address and your complete name, we can add you very quickly. Otherwise, we need to send out an email to you and find out a little bit more about you. So that might be why you're experiencing a delay. Thanks for asking that. Yeah, we have a question here from Cynthia about librarians creating OERs and how do we define curation in relation to OER. I'll answer that first, Cynthia. When we say curating OER, it's mostly the discovery. So finding what OERs are being used across other community colleges. And that's where the CCCOER lists serve would really come in handy because the lists serve really gives a lot of information regarding adoptions by other colleges. And yeah, basically just, you know, finding all the different resources that a faculty might be able to use for the courses. And Tina has something to add to. Tina? I think I might be the one who talked about curating. What I have found is that sometimes you will find like a video or, well, let me just use the case of the One Lib Guide that I made for the World Cultures class. I wanted to take one chapter of a OER textbook. And I just wanted that one chapter. The teacher didn't want students to think they had to read 80 pages. They just wanted that one chapter. And so I was able to take that out. And so I could put it in Google Docs where both the instructor and I could get to it. I could put it in the Lib Guide. And so sometimes I save things like I will save a download of video that's downloadable and save it and keep it in either on the, you know, the school's share drive or in Google Docs or someplace where I know it's going to stay. And it's not going to, you know, change or disappear or the link break or something like that. It's not a huge problem, but until it arises and then it's a huge problem. So that's what I meant by curating. And I think a mod here, Tina is asking about how did you find finding funding to get started. Okay, we got, we had an internal grant of $5,000 from our foundation and it was called an innovation grant. And that's what we used. We offered 10 faculty members $5,000 we had to adapt one of their courses to OER. And that was great. It was very successful. It kickstarted things and we got going. But it that was all that's all there was. And I haven't been able to find funding anywhere else. So that's that could be a start. If you could find like a innovation grant or a foundation grant or something like that doesn't take much $5,000. Yeah, for our case here here at LCC we didn't start. When we started with our OER initiative we didn't have any funding. So we relied on our faculty's desire to save their students money. So it was only actually this semester when, you know, we have already saved more than a million dollars since fall 2015. And we've been gaining a lot of publicity statewide that our administration decided to really empty it up and scale it by providing half a million dollars for faculty incentives. And awards towards adopting and creating OER. So it can be done even without or with little funding. So Karen has a question about predatory publishing and how this relates to OER. Okay, so is there anyone who wants to answer that? It or publishing it more is with the open access journals. OER really in my, you know, in the experience that I have working with OER since OER have open licenses. It allows everyone to use it whether it's for commercial purposes for whatever purpose that they wanted to be used, which is really good because of the open licenses inherent to OER. So anyone else have a question? Claudia, yes, actually there is. I just forgot the title, but if you go to SUNY OER, they have an OER there specifically for information literacy and research. So, yeah, it's there. I just have to take a look at the, yes, Alexis, thank you. Yeah, I remember that because I've, you know, I've read it and I've downloaded it. So thank you, Alexis. Oh, and Virginia Tech also has one. And Maude also has a question. Okay, how did you promote the idea of OER to faculty? Okay, I can speak for what I did here at LCC. Really, you have to frame it towards what is the problem you're really trying to solve. So before we embark on this OER initiative, we had a preliminary survey of our students, you know, are you buying textbooks? How much did you pay for a textbook? And our students were not buying textbooks and they are spending a lot of money, you know, for textbooks. And so we really framed it in a way that would help our students be successful, providing them with access to learning materials from day one of the class. And a lot of our faculty really buy into that access and social justice issue. And of course it helped too that we flew in a lot of speakers. David Wiley, Nicole Allen, Nicole Finkbinder, Una came to LCC and a lot of our faculty really became inspired. And Regina is very persuasive too. Yeah, I was told that they can't refuse me so. And once in the psychology program once faculty are very committed to students and once we started with with intro and we got the entire 35 courses using intro using the textbook using the OER. It kind of caught on and people thought, well, you know, this can be done and this is a good thing. So it's expanded psychology is part of the social science program and so it's kind of expanded into other social science, sociology, humanities courses, history, so it's, it's spreading, and it's a good, a good spread. I'd like to add something here. I think that that there are lots of ways to promote this to faculty. We've certainly used our professional development day. We, if I find if there's announced that there's a new OER textbook for a particular course I will email the faculty members in that field and let them know that. But you, we can't assume that faculty love the textbooks that they have. They don't, they don't love them. In fact, I don't think faculty. You know, they, they, they want to do a lot of different things. They're very creative people. And so this is, you can, you can certainly promote it as freedom of academic freedom to Mark DeLong is really wanting me to tell you this, this semester we, we got lunch bags, brown paper bags and put some pen, a pen, a button, some sticky notes that had our OER logo on it, and an apple and then we went and got some really good cookies from a local bakery. And we delivered these little lunch bags to all of the teachers who are teaching with open textbooks this semester, and either delivered them to the offices or we put them in their mailboxes. And they had a big sticker on it said, thank you for saving NMC, it's $167,000 this semester. That, that's a lot of lunches that they could buy instead of buying a textbook. So things like that, they work, they're fun. I also want to give the ed tech people in your, in your school, they're your natural allies, they're the people who, who know about online learning and who know how to make technology do the things they wanted to do. So they, if you're, if you're trying to put together an OER team. Don't forget those ed tech people they're crucial to this operation. Okay Karen asks what resistance have you encountered to using OER any. Most of the, most of the pushback that I hear is the time involved. Because while OERs are free, it's really not free for faculty to adopt it, you know, it's, it's essentially a course redesign, combining, especially if you're combining multiple OERs together. That, that was the, the biggest complaint that I get from our faculty that they want to be compensated for the time that they put in creating a course using OER. And then that's what we've done, you know, with the grant or the faculty award that we are now making available for our faculty to get paid. So, yeah, it's, it really is the time element. Plus, you know, it's, it doesn't look, it doesn't act like a textbook, you know, you, you have to, to consult a number of OER to come up with, with a good one, whereas when you use a textbook, everything is there, you know, PowerPoint, quizzes, assessments. So, yeah, I mean, Elizabeth and Sharon, maybe you can speak to, to this too, being a faculty. Actually, Elizabeth had to leave because she's doing this from her, from her day job. She, she had a three o'clock meeting, but it's, that's a perfect example. And, but there are always faculty creative and hardworking faculty who are willing to do it, even if they're not being compensated. That was, that was the biggest pushback in the psychology program is it's going to, it's going to be a lot of work to change textbooks. But OpenStacks did have some ancillary materials, a test bank, instructor resources, PowerPoint slides. So that, that was helpful. And the money helped too. And actually, our college, several people have taken sabbaticals. And on their sabbaticals, they've developed OER, they've written textbooks, written their own textbook, written their own materials, or pulled together OER materials that were already out there. So we've also gotten time to do it. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Sharon. Yes, a number of our full-time faculty also got, you know, took a sabbatical just to write an OER. So we are, so we have three already. I know we are written by faculty and there's two more coming as a result of a sabbatical this semester. So we're, we're almost at the top of the hour and really, really enjoy doing this webinar with you. If you have any more questions to Tina or myself, just feel free to send us an email. We'd like to thank Elizabeth and Sharon for doing it, doing it with us too. And I hope you get as much as, you know, as much information as you were expecting from this webinar. Thank you again. Thank you. Yeah, and see if you're attending Open Ed in two weeks. I'll see you there.